From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

...but a Ford-powered car was literally running away from the field
before a safety car deployment bunched everyone up...

...and then contact with the second place driver put him off the track...

...so much for the theory that the Ford Kent engine can't be competitive.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 10/13/2025 6:43 PM, Alan wrote:

...but a Ford-powered car was literally running away from the field
before a safety car deployment bunched everyone up...

...and then contact with the second place driver put him off the track...

...so much for the theory that the Ford Kent engine can't be competitive.

Except, of course, you left out a few details. I just watched the race.
Kotvk had a clear speed advantage on the long straights in clean air to
build his lead. He was gaining on every lap until..

Once the combined field bunched up with 4 to go he lost that advantage
and was dropping back in heavy traffic.

Doubtful he would have won at that point, even if the last lap incident
had not happened. He was running 3rd on the last lap. Bottom line, Kotvk
did not win, but could have placed higher than last. Down's win was a
fluke when Burns and Kotvk took each other out with a turn or two to go.
I also note that of the 17 cars only 1 or 2 were Fords. Why so many Hondas?

Great race. As you have pointed out many times top speed is not the only dimension that matters. Honda won the race.


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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 2025-10-14 07:54, Tom Elam wrote:

On 10/13/2025 6:43 PM, Alan wrote:

...but a Ford-powered car was literally running away from the field
before a safety car deployment bunched everyone up...

...and then contact with the second place driver put him off the track...

...so much for the theory that the Ford Kent engine can't be competitive.

Except, of course, you left out a few details. I just watched the race. Kotvk had a clear speed advantage on the long straights in clean air to build his lead. He was gaining on every lap until..

Once the combined field bunched up with 4 to go he lost that advantage
and was dropping back in heavy traffic.

Doubtful he would have won at that point, even if the last lap incident
had not happened. He was running 3rd on the last lap. Bottom line, Kotvk
did not win, but could have placed higher than last. Down's win was a
fluke when Burns and Kotvk took each other out with a turn or two to go.
I also note that of the 17 cars only 1 or 2 were Fords. Why so many Hondas?

Great race. As you have pointed out many times top speed is not the only dimension that matters. Honda won the race.

Top speed isn't the only dimension, but again, you (deliberately) miss
the point.

YOU claim that the Ford can NO LONGER BE competitive.

Leading the race and pulling away from the other cars proves otherwise.

You're such an asshole.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 10/14/2025 11:23 AM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-10-14 07:54, Tom Elam wrote:

On 10/13/2025 6:43 PM, Alan wrote:

...but a Ford-powered car was literally running away from the field
before a safety car deployment bunched everyone up...

...and then contact with the second place driver put him off the
track...

...so much for the theory that the Ford Kent engine can't be
competitive.

Except, of course, you left out a few details. I just watched the
race. Kotvk had a clear speed advantage on the long straights in clean
air to build his lead. He was gaining on every lap until..

Once the combined field bunched up with 4 to go he lost that advantage
and was dropping back in heavy traffic.

Doubtful he would have won at that point, even if the last lap
incident had not happened. He was running 3rd on the last lap. Bottom
line, Kotvk did not win, but could have placed higher than last.
Down's win was a fluke when Burns and Kotvk took each other out with a
turn or two to go. I also note that of the 17 cars only 1 or 2 were
Fords. Why so many Hondas?

Great race. As you have pointed out many times top speed is not the
only dimension that matters. Honda won the race.

Top speed isn't the only dimension, but again, you (deliberately) miss
the point.

YOU claim that the Ford can NO LONGER BE competitive.

Leading the race and pulling away from the other cars proves otherwise.

You're such an asshole.

I did a little research

Kotvk placed 8th in 2024 with a Ford, 2nd in 2023 with a Honda (the only
Ford won, very small field), back past that it was generally a
Honda-dominated field and podium for years.

You deliberately nuanced your original post to favor your narrative,
leaving out important details. I watched the race. The last 4 laps are
very revealing. Competitive is multidimensional. Asshole.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 2025-10-14 08:44, Tom Elam wrote:

On 10/14/2025 11:23 AM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-10-14 07:54, Tom Elam wrote:

On 10/13/2025 6:43 PM, Alan wrote:

...but a Ford-powered car was literally running away from the field
before a safety car deployment bunched everyone up...

...and then contact with the second place driver put him off the
track...

...so much for the theory that the Ford Kent engine can't be
competitive.

Except, of course, you left out a few details. I just watched the
race. Kotvk had a clear speed advantage on the long straights in
clean air to build his lead. He was gaining on every lap until..

Once the combined field bunched up with 4 to go he lost that
advantage and was dropping back in heavy traffic.

Doubtful he would have won at that point, even if the last lap
incident had not happened. He was running 3rd on the last lap. Bottom
line, Kotvk did not win, but could have placed higher than last.
Down's win was a fluke when Burns and Kotvk took each other out with
a turn or two to go. I also note that of the 17 cars only 1 or 2 were
Fords. Why so many Hondas?

Great race. As you have pointed out many times top speed is not the
only dimension that matters. Honda won the race.

Top speed isn't the only dimension, but again, you (deliberately) miss
the point.

YOU claim that the Ford can NO LONGER BE competitive.

Leading the race and pulling away from the other cars proves otherwise.

You're such an asshole.

I did a little research

Kotvk placed 8th in 2024 with a Ford, 2nd in 2023 with a Honda (the only Ford won, very small field), back past that it was generally a Honda- dominated field and podium for years.

But if a Ford CAN win, it clearly means it is competitive ON THE TRACK,
right, Asshole?

Remember: this came up because you tried to claim that my performance ON
THE TRACK was improved because you believed the Honda was inherently
FASTER ON THE TRACK.

You deliberately nuanced your original post to favor your narrative,
leaving out important details. I watched the race. The last 4 laps are
very revealing. Competitive is multidimensional. Asshole.

You trying to parrot back to me what I've had to teach you is hilarious.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 10/14/2025 11:23 AM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-10-14 07:54, Tom Elam wrote:

On 10/13/2025 6:43 PM, Alan wrote:

...but a Ford-powered car was literally running away from the field
before a safety car deployment bunched everyone up...

...and then contact with the second place driver put him off the
track...

...so much for the theory that the Ford Kent engine can't be
competitive.

Except, of course, you left out a few details. I just watched the
race. Kotvk had a clear speed advantage on the long straights in clean
air to build his lead. He was gaining on every lap until..

Once the combined field bunched up with 4 to go he lost that advantage
and was dropping back in heavy traffic.

Doubtful he would have won at that point, even if the last lap
incident had not happened. He was running 3rd on the last lap. Bottom
line, Kotvk did not win, but could have placed higher than last.
Down's win was a fluke when Burns and Kotvk took each other out with a
turn or two to go. I also note that of the 17 cars only 1 or 2 were
Fords. Why so many Hondas?

Great race. As you have pointed out many times top speed is not the
only dimension that matters. Honda won the race.

Top speed isn't the only dimension, but again, you (deliberately) miss
the point.

YOU claim that the Ford can NO LONGER BE competitive.

Leading the race and pulling away from the other cars proves otherwise.

You're such an asshole.

I don't think I ever said a FF car with Kent engine can never compete in
a race again. If I did you need to cite that please, and I was wrong.

In this race top speed was a potential major factor. The Kent has no rev limiter, as I recall. The Honda does, as I remember. A carefully
prepared car with a freshly prepped and well-tuned Kent engine could
take advantage of that difference on the long straights at Road America.
The announcers even noted how Kotvk was gaining on those straights.

I think what I said was that the Kent is no longer competitive in the
sense that at the top levels of FF racing the Honda dominates in entries
and wins. As I said before, if the Ford is still competitive there would
be a lot more Fords entered and placing at the top. Instead we see a few entries, some of which do well but most don't.

On a side note I see that 2025 BCHMR races at Mission now break out FF
into Club Ford and Modern Ford. SCCA specs for Modern Ford include the
Honda engine. I did not know that until now but it makes sense. Robert
Fraser and Courtenay Rimaldi were in the Modern Fords. The only faster
OW time than Fraser was Ray Stec in his Formula Continental.

So Robert Fraser was apparently running a Honda FF at Mission this year,
ran every race, and almost won the championship. What was #1 Kees Nierop driving? Nobody else was even close to those two.

But the real point is that Honda is making inroads at SCCBC too. Is that
why you have given up?
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 2025-10-15 04:41, Tom Elam wrote:

On 10/14/2025 11:23 AM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-10-14 07:54, Tom Elam wrote:

On 10/13/2025 6:43 PM, Alan wrote:

...but a Ford-powered car was literally running away from the field
before a safety car deployment bunched everyone up...

...and then contact with the second place driver put him off the
track...

...so much for the theory that the Ford Kent engine can't be
competitive.

Except, of course, you left out a few details. I just watched the
race. Kotvk had a clear speed advantage on the long straights in
clean air to build his lead. He was gaining on every lap until..

Once the combined field bunched up with 4 to go he lost that
advantage and was dropping back in heavy traffic.

Doubtful he would have won at that point, even if the last lap
incident had not happened. He was running 3rd on the last lap. Bottom
line, Kotvk did not win, but could have placed higher than last.
Down's win was a fluke when Burns and Kotvk took each other out with
a turn or two to go. I also note that of the 17 cars only 1 or 2 were
Fords. Why so many Hondas?

Great race. As you have pointed out many times top speed is not the
only dimension that matters. Honda won the race.

Top speed isn't the only dimension, but again, you (deliberately) miss
the point.

YOU claim that the Ford can NO LONGER BE competitive.

Leading the race and pulling away from the other cars proves otherwise.

You're such an asshole.

I don't think I ever said a FF car with Kent engine can never compete in
a race again. If I did you need to cite that please, and I was wrong.

You said it multiple times, you lying asshole.

In this race top speed was a potential major factor. The Kent has no rev limiter, as I recall. The Honda does, as I remember. A carefully
prepared car with a freshly prepped and well-tuned Kent engine could
take advantage of that difference on the long straights at Road America.
The announcers even noted how Kotvk was gaining on those straights.

Which I explained to you ages ago, you lying asshole.

I think what I said was that the Kent is no longer competitive in the
sense that at the top levels of FF racing the Honda dominates in entries
and wins. As I said before, if the Ford is still competitive there would
be a lot more Fords entered and placing at the top. Instead we see a few entries, some of which do well but most don't.

You're lying. I explained why it made sense for teams to run Hondas, you
lying asshole.

On a side note I see that 2025 BCHMR races at Mission now break out FF
into Club Ford and Modern Ford. SCCA specs for Modern Ford include the
Honda engine. I did not know that until now but it makes sense. Robert Fraser and Courtenay Rimaldi were in the Modern Fords. The only faster
OW time than Fraser was Ray Stec in his Formula Continental.

The BCHMR has always broken out Club Ford and Modern Ford, you lying
asshole.

So Robert Fraser was apparently running a Honda FF at Mission this year,
ran every race, and almost won the championship. What was #1 Kees Nierop driving? Nobody else was even close to those two.

Now you're just making shit up, you lying asshole.

Rob runs a Citation with a Kent Engine. What made you claim it was
"apparent", you lying asshole.

But the real point is that Honda is making inroads at SCCBC too. Is that
why you have given up?

The "real point" was bullshit before you began, you lying asshole.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 10/15/2025 11:32 AM, Alan wrote:

I don't think I ever said a FF car with Kent engine can never compete
in a race again. If I did you need to cite that please, and I was wrong.

You said it multiple times, you lying asshole.

I'm going to need hyperlinked citations, Asshole

I think what I said was that the Kent is no longer competitive in the
sense that at the top levels of FF racing the Honda dominates in
entries and wins. As I said before, if the Ford is still competitive
there would be a lot more Fords entered and placing at the top.
Instead we see a few entries, some of which do well but most don't.

You're lying. I explained why it made sense for teams to run Hondas, you lying asshole.

And you explained it well! Overall, all things considered, the Honda is
better suited for FF racing. The Kent does not compete well with the
Kent. Not to say that it cannot if you spend the time and money, but
that is the point here, time and money are competitive dimensions. You
even cited them when you bought your Honda.

On a side note I see that 2025 BCHMR races at Mission now break out FF
into Club Ford and Modern Ford. SCCA specs for Modern Ford include the
Honda engine. I did not know that until now but it makes sense. Robert
Fraser and Courtenay Rimaldi were in the Modern Fords. The only faster
OW time than Fraser was Ray Stec in his Formula Continental.

The BCHMR has always broken out Club Ford and Modern Ford, you lying asshole.

Not a lie, they do break out by modern and club now. Was not aware it
was a past practice.

So Robert Fraser was apparently running a Honda FF at Mission this
year, ran every race, and almost won the championship. What was #1
Kees Nierop driving? Nobody else was even close to those two.

Now you're just making shit up, you lying asshole.

Rob runs a Citation with a Kent Engine. What made you claim it was "apparent", you lying asshole.

Apparent because as I recall your SCCBC formula rules are the based on
SCCA. SCCA has a Club Ford Challenge Series Spec for only Kent engines.
So I said "apparently," not that it was for sure.

Thanks for clearing that up.

You do realize that your constant need to be right, strident demeanor
and language is quite similar to that of Donald Trump and JD Vance?
Classic narcissists all of three you. Your rants remind me of the
Trump-Vance White House dress-down of Zelenski.

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 10/15/2025 11:32 AM, Alan wrote:

Top speed isn't the only dimension, but again, you (deliberately)
miss the point.

YOU claim that the Ford can NO LONGER BE competitive.

Leading the race and pulling away from the other cars proves otherwise.

You're such an asshole.

I don't think I ever said a FF car with Kent engine can never compete
in a race again. If I did you need to cite that please, and I was wrong.

You said it multiple times, you lying asshole.

In this race top speed was a potential major factor. The Kent has no
rev limiter, as I recall. The Honda does, as I remember. A carefully
prepared car with a freshly prepped and well-tuned Kent engine could
take advantage of that difference on the long straights at Road
America. The announcers even noted how Kotvk was gaining on those
straights.

Which I explained to you ages ago, you lying asshole.

Yes you did, but I knew about items like rev limiters and power curves a
long time before that. You explained nothing I did not already know.

Explain this - One Kent win in 13 years across 2 circuits. Which I have
shown to you many times. Your 4-time champ, hero J. Kotyk, might have
won #2 for Kent this year, but did not. He might should have brought his Honda?

I'm not counting 2011, the second year the Honda was available.

Many of these winners are from well-funded programs. Maybe the Kent is
the Android of the FF world. It's what you use because you can't afford better? You seemed to think so when you bought yours.

SCCA Runoffs record 2012-2025

(A Kent won 2011)
2012 Road America Tim Kautz Piper DF3D Honda L15A7
2013 Road America Tim Kautz Piper DF3D Honda L15A7
2014 Laguna Seca Jeremy Grenier Citation Honda L15A7
2015 Daytona Rick Payne Van Diemen RF99 Honda L15A7
2016 Mid-Ohio Neil Verhagen Mygale SJ11 Honda L15A7
2017 Indianapolis Matthew Cowley Mygale SJ11 Honda L15A7
2018 Sonoma Jonathan Kotyk Mygale Honda L15A7
2019 VIR Jonathan Kotyk Mygale Honda L15A7
2020 Road America Simon Sikes Mygale SJ12 Honda L15A7
2021 Indianapolis Jonathan Kotyk Mygale SJ11 Honda L15A7
2022 VIR Jonathan Kotyk Mygale Honda L15A7
2023 VIR Nolan Allaer Van Diemen RF00 Ford Kent
2024 Road America Tazio Stefanelli Spectrum Honda L15A7
2025 Road America Nathan Down Swift DB6 Honda L15A7

SCCA-sanctioned FRP Formula 1600 champions 2012-2014:

(A Kent won 2011)
2012 Matias K||ykk|n Spectrum 011 Honda
2013 Jake Eidson Spectrum 012 Honda
2014 Ayla |agren Mygale Honda
2015 Scott Andrews Spectrum 014H Honda
2016 Neil Verhagen Mygale Honda
2017 Matthew Cowley Mygale Honda
2018 Dario Cangialosi Mygale Honda
2019 Jonathan Kotyk Mygale Honda
2020 Simon Sikes Mygale Honda
2021 Nicholas d'Orlando Mygale Honda
2022 Thomas Schrage Mygale Honda
2023 Porter Aiken 2009 Piper DF05 Honda
2024 Mateo Naranjo Mygale Honda
2025 (Engine details not found on FRP site
https://www.racefrp.com/standings)

Thanks, this is all quite fascinating. A glimpse at a world I would have
never know existed but for you, Alan.

BTW, I don't own a Honda car now. We just went with Subaru. Very
different sort of drive-train.





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