From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

Every time I restart the computer I have to do a *Configure country UK
in order to move the double-quotes back into the 2 key as depicted on
the keycaps. How do I get the configuration to save?
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Death is nature's way of telling you to slow down.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 8 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

Every time I restart the computer I have to do a *Configure country UK
in order to move the double-quotes back into the 2 key as depicted on
the keycaps. How do I get the configuration to save?

I'm guessing that the issue is *probably* that I have been using
!KeyMap (originally in a failed attempt to type Unicode into NetSurf - I couldn't find a layout that actually produced the right characters in an
actual Web page), which if I remember correctly (I can't find where I
got this info from) toggles in Cyrillic mode between Cyrillic keyboard
layout and US English layout by pressing left Shift/Alt....
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Life, don't talk to me about life....
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In message <42f78f595c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

On 8 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

Every time I restart the computer I have to do a *Configure country UK
in order to move the double-quotes back into the 2 key as depicted on
the keycaps. How do I get the configuration to save?

I'm guessing that the issue is *probably* that I have been using
!KeyMap (originally in a failed attempt to type Unicode into NetSurf - I couldn't find a layout that actually produced the right characters in an actual Web page), which if I remember correctly (I can't find where I
got this info from) toggles in Cyrillic mode between Cyrillic keyboard
layout and US English layout by pressing left Shift/Alt....

Hi Harriet,
Unicode and internationalization are two very interesting subjects ...

The font that displays Cyrillic characters is "unicode", they are only displayed in !Chars or !XChars.

I don't know how to have them displayed by !NetSurf, it's a good question.
--
Jean-Michel
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In article <2c10185b5c.jmb@jmc.bruck.orange.fr>,
Jean-Michel <jmc.bruck@orange.fr> wrote:

The font that displays Cyrillic characters is "unicode", they are only displayed in !Chars or !XChars.

And in !Iris, and in !NetSurf, and in !KeyMap, and in !Dict, and even in
!Edit when configured correctly. And probably in some more apps as well

I don't know how to have them displayed by !NetSurf, it's a good
question.

That's just a matter of entering the URL of a Russian website in the
url-bar (e.g. https://www.google.com/?hl=ru).

The problem is not displaying the Unicode characters, but entering them.
!Dict accepts unicode input, and !Edit can be configured to do so as well.
Post editing however is a pain. Apart from those two, I don't know about
any other program that accepts unicode input. Real unicode support would be welcomed very heartedly indeed.

Paul
--
https://riscos.sprie.nl
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 12 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Jean-Michel wrote:

In message <42f78f595c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

On 8 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

Every time I restart the computer I have to do a *Configure country UK
in order to move the double-quotes back into the 2 key as depicted on
the keycaps. How do I get the configuration to save?

I'm guessing that the issue is *probably* that I have been using
!KeyMap (originally in a failed attempt to type Unicode into NetSurf - I couldn't find a layout that actually produced the right characters in an actual Web page), which if I remember correctly (I can't find where I
got this info from) toggles in Cyrillic mode between Cyrillic keyboard layout and US English layout by pressing left Shift/Alt....

Hi Harriet,
Unicode and internationalization are two very interesting subjects ...

The font that displays Cyrillic characters is "unicode", they are only displayed in !Chars or !XChars.

I don't know how to have them displayed by !NetSurf, it's a good question.

I do have them displayed by NetSurf, but I can't remember how I set
that up. You need the font 'Cyberbit', which is *huge*. With that
installed, I can cut and paste Cyrillic text from within NetSurf itself,
but I can't usefully enter it from the keyboard, e.g. for a search in https://www.multitran.com/dictionary/russian-english/

I tried setting up Paul Sprangers' !Keymap and !Dict, but never got Web
search working with any of the character maps provided, although I did
at some point in that process acquire a Bukinist.KO18 and Bukinist.1251
font which can be used along with !Keymap to type using a standard
Russian keyboard layout in RISC OS applications. (My Russian
touch-typing is incredibly laborious, but just about usable; attempting
to transcribe Unicode Cyrillic text viewed on the Web into editable form
in a document, as opposed to being able to cut and paste it from the
browser window, is so impractical that it is actually much faster to
copy it out by hand and work in manuscript.)


I've just run !Chars, and it is showing Cyrillic characters in all the positions above ASCII 128; however *Keyboard and *Country are already reporting "UK" when I check, and clicking on the Cyrillic characters
displayed in the !Chars window doesn't actually type the letters
currently shown in the window but the 'normal' Latin-1 accented
characters at those positions instead. So I have thoroughly confused my configuration somehow.

If I reboot, the double-quote will probably have moved back onto the @
key....
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

We are not punished for our sins, but by them.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 12 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

In message <42f78f595c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

On 8 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

Every time I restart the computer I have to do a *Configure country UK >> in order to move the double-quotes back into the 2 key as depicted on
the keycaps. How do I get the configuration to save?

[snip Cyrillic]

If I reboot, the double-quote will probably have moved back onto the @ key....

I've narrowed it down a bit in that after rebooting, *Country returns
Russia. Unfortunately *Configure Country UK doesn't seem to 'stick', so
every time I reboot I'm back to the US keyboard layout again....
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

But what we need to know is, do people want nasally-insertable computers?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In message <563006645c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

On 12 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

In message <42f78f595c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

On 8 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

Every time I restart the computer I have to do a *Configure country UK >>>>> in order to move the double-quotes back into the 2 key as depicted on >>>>> the keycaps. How do I get the configuration to save?

[snip Cyrillic]

If I reboot, the double-quote will probably have moved back onto the @
key....

I've narrowed it down a bit in that after rebooting, *Country returns
Russia. Unfortunately *Configure Country UK doesn't seem to 'stick', so every time I reboot I'm back to the US keyboard layout again....

Hello Harriet,
I think I have to find if you do nothing you have a US keyboard, but if Explanation in intkey.layout.russia (drawfile), I send you a copy of the
file.
"Pressing the left-hand Alt key and either Shift key will toggle to a
layout identical to USA"

*keyboard russia works using the Alt + Shift keys, and that very good
with! Netsurf.

I installed the Cyberbit Fonte to test with Stronged or Texchwrite for example, but you cannot choose the Cyrillic alphabet.
I tried *alphabet Cyrillic without more lucky, !Chars displays it well. I
may be a mistake.

The essential for you was to be able to write text in !Netsurf and it
works.
--
Jean-Michel
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 30 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Jean-Michel wrote:

In message <563006645c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

On 12 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

In message <42f78f595c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

On 8 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

Every time I restart the computer I have to do a *Configure country UK >>>>> in order to move the double-quotes back into the 2 key as depicted on >>>>> the keycaps. How do I get the configuration to save?

[snip Cyrillic]

If I reboot, the double-quote will probably have moved back onto the @
key....

I've narrowed it down a bit in that after rebooting, *Country returns Russia. Unfortunately *Configure Country UK doesn't seem to 'stick', so every time I reboot I'm back to the US keyboard layout again....

Hello Harriet,
I think I have to find if you do nothing you have a US keyboard, but if Explanation in intkey.layout.russia (drawfile), I send you a copy of the file.
"Pressing the left-hand Alt key and either Shift key will toggle to a
layout identical to USA"

Yes, I suspect this is my problem - I have somehow or other configured
my computer to default to the Russian/US layout, and don't seem to be
able to reconfigure it back!

*keyboard russia works using the Alt + Shift keys, and that very good
with! Netsurf.

I installed the Cyberbit Fonte to test with Stronged or Texchwrite for example, but you cannot choose the Cyrillic alphabet.
I tried *alphabet Cyrillic without more lucky, !Chars displays it well. I may be a mistake.

The essential for you was to be able to write text in !Netsurf and it
works.

Unfortunately it doesn't. :-(

I have been trying to use !KeyMap (along with the Bukinist font) to
enter Cyrillic text into Netsurf, but none of the layouts on offer in combination with any of the fonts I have available actually generate the characters displayed by KeyMap for that layout. I get random Cyrillic
Unicode - well, presumably not random, but not the characters I'm trying
to type!

So I'm still limited to cut&paste one character at a time, since Netsurf
*does* allow me to paste Unicode into its input areas - although not to
export it, which means that if I want to get any Cyrillic text viewed on
the Web into editable/printable format, I have to retype it myself using
one of the RISC OS-compatible fonts.

What I have done *in practice* is to purchase a large printed
dictionary, as opposed to relying on online lookup, and to refresh my
old skills in handwritten Cyrillic so that I can jot down notes and transcriptions using pen and ink instead.

Unfortunately I am still stuck with a computer that has a US keyboard
layout by default....
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In message <128d95645c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

On 30 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Jean-Michel wrote:

In message <563006645c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

On 12 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

In message <42f78f595c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

On 8 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

Every time I restart the computer I have to do a *Configure country UK >>>>>>> in order to move the double-quotes back into the 2 key as depicted on >>>>>>> the keycaps. How do I get the configuration to save?

[snip Cyrillic]

If I reboot, the double-quote will probably have moved back onto the @ >>>> key....

I've narrowed it down a bit in that after rebooting, *Country returns
Russia. Unfortunately *Configure Country UK doesn't seem to 'stick', so >>> every time I reboot I'm back to the US keyboard layout again....

Hello Harriet,
I think I have to find if you do nothing you have a US keyboard, but if
Explanation in intkey.layout.russia (drawfile), I send you a copy of the
file.
"Pressing the left-hand Alt key and either Shift key will toggle to a
layout identical to USA"

Yes, I suspect this is my problem - I have somehow or other configured
my computer to default to the Russian/US layout, and don't seem to be
able to reconfigure it back!

*keyboard russia works using the Alt + Shift keys, and that very good
with! Netsurf.

I installed the Cyberbit Fonte to test with Stronged or Texchwrite for
example, but you cannot choose the Cyrillic alphabet.
I tried *alphabet Cyrillic without more lucky, !Chars displays it well. I
may be a mistake.

The essential for you was to be able to write text in !Netsurf and it
works.

Unfortunately it doesn't. :-(

I have been trying to use !KeyMap (along with the Bukinist font) to
enter Cyrillic text into Netsurf, but none of the layouts on offer in combination with any of the fonts I have available actually generate the characters displayed by KeyMap for that layout. I get random Cyrillic Unicode - well, presumably not random, but not the characters I'm trying
to type!

So I'm still limited to cut&paste one character at a time, since Netsurf *does* allow me to paste Unicode into its input areas - although not to export it, which means that if I want to get any Cyrillic text viewed on
the Web into editable/printable format, I have to retype it myself using
one of the RISC OS-compatible fonts.

What I have done *in practice* is to purchase a large printed
dictionary, as opposed to relying on online lookup, and to refresh my
old skills in handwritten Cyrillic so that I can jot down notes and transcriptions using pen and ink instead.

Unfortunately I am still stuck with a computer that has a US keyboard
layout by default....

I note on 4.42 when you change the keyboard input country to another
country an obey file is created <Choices$Write>.Boot.Predesk.KbdSetup
The file is removed when changed back to default.

The file is an obey file that runs the country command.
I have tested this also on my Pinebook. If you run *Country UK it will return your system back to UK. I'm guessing there must be something in
your startup sequence that is configuring to another country.

What occurs if you go into Configure-Keyboard and press the Default
button, then click Set to make it apply?

(sorry if you have already done the above!)
--
Paul Stewart
Sent from A9home running RISC OS 4.42
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 8 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

Every time I restart the computer I have to do a *Configure country UK >>>>>>> in order to move the double-quotes back into the 2 key as depicted on >>>>>>> the keycaps. How do I get the configuration to save?

[snip Cyrillic]

If I reboot, the double-quote will probably have moved back onto the @ >>>> key....

I've narrowed it down a bit in that after rebooting, *Country returns
Russia. Unfortunately *Configure Country UK doesn't seem to 'stick', so >>> every time I reboot I'm back to the US keyboard layout again....

Hello Harriet,
I think I have to find if you do nothing you have a US keyboard, but if
Explanation in intkey.layout.russia (drawfile), I send you a copy of the
file.
"Pressing the left-hand Alt key and either Shift key will toggle to a
layout identical to USA"

Yes, I suspect this is my problem - I have somehow or other configured
my computer to default to the Russian/US layout, and don't seem to be
able to reconfigure it back!

*keyboard russia works using the Alt + Shift keys, and that very good
with! Netsurf.

I installed the Cyberbit Fonte to test with Stronged or Texchwrite for
example, but you cannot choose the Cyrillic alphabet.
I tried *alphabet Cyrillic without more lucky, !Chars displays it well. I
may be a mistake.

The essential for you was to be able to write text in !Netsurf and it
works.

Unfortunately it doesn't. :-(

I have been trying to use !KeyMap (along with the Bukinist font) to
enter Cyrillic text into Netsurf, but none of the layouts on offer in combination with any of the fonts I have available actually generate the characters displayed by KeyMap for that layout. I get random Cyrillic Unicode - well, presumably not random, but not the characters I'm trying
to type!

So I'm still limited to cut&paste one character at a time, since Netsurf *does* allow me to paste Unicode into its input areas - although not to export it, which means that if I want to get any Cyrillic text viewed on
the Web into editable/printable format, I have to retype it myself using
one of the RISC OS-compatible fonts.

What I have done *in practice* is to purchase a large printed
dictionary, as opposed to relying on online lookup, and to refresh my
old skills in handwritten Cyrillic so that I can jot down notes and transcriptions using pen and ink instead.

Unfortunately I am still stuck with a computer that has a US keyboard
layout by default....

Hi,

Have you checked your territory and keyboard settings.
I have Territory set to 1
Country set to default
Language set to 11, and keyboard set to UK Default.

Hope that helps a bit.
John
--
_________________________________________
| University of Glos. Blighting Longlevens.
| mailto:john@jpeachey.co.uk
_______________________| http://www.jpeachey.co.uk
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 30 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
Paul Stewart wrote:

I note on 4.42 when you change the keyboard input country to another
country an obey file is created <Choices$Write>.Boot.Predesk.KbdSetup
The file is removed when changed back to default.

The file is an obey file that runs the country command.
I have tested this also on my Pinebook. If you run *Country UK it will return your system back to UK. I'm guessing there must be something in
your startup sequence that is configuring to another country.

What occurs if you go into Configure-Keyboard and press the Default
button, then click Set to make it apply?

Aha, I think you've got it - Configure->Keyboard is showing "Russia"
even now, after resetting (and configuring) *Country to "UK", which
means that every time I reboot, the computer is reading back that
keyboard setting and overwriting the ROM configuration! So if I reset
that window to Default, the problem should be fixed.

I didn't know that part of !Configure even existed....
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

There are two ways to write error-free programs; only the third one works.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 30 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
J Peachey wrote:

Have you checked your territory and keyboard settings.
I have Territory set to 1
Country set to default
Language set to 11, and keyboard set to UK Default.

Yes - the problem was that after every reboot I would find them set back
to Russia, and have to reset them yet again!

But apparently my command-line settings were being overridden by more
'modern' features in the new-style Boot Configure - see my reply to Paul Stewart above. :-)
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

The saddest words in the English language are 'Too' and 'late'
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In message <df33a8645c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

On 30 Sep 2025 as I do recall,
J Peachey wrote:

Have you checked your territory and keyboard settings.
I have Territory set to 1
Country set to default
Language set to 11, and keyboard set to UK Default.

Yes - the problem was that after every reboot I would find them set back
to Russia, and have to reset them yet again!

But apparently my command-line settings were being overridden by more 'modern' features in the new-style Boot Configure - see my reply to Paul Stewart above. :-)

I did any tests and I don't get a file
<Choices$Write>.Boot.Predesk.KbdSetup
(Risc OS 5.31)

By changing the keyboard in Configure Keyboard, we change Country and therefore the keyboard.
From PRM3/p780:
"Remember that you should normally only need to change the country setting
as this will also change the keyboard."
The Country Russia command line is enough to use the keyboard with
!Netsurf

N.B.
I discovered this morning that you could have Cyrillic characters in
Stronged, just choose in the Panelfont: System
Change with configure keyboard to russia. You need to use shift + alt to
get cyrillic characters otherwise it will be a US keyboard.

Another manipulation which explains above. Open !Char and select: System
Font.
Now open Configure Keyboard and change the country !Char update its
display.

I did not know this possibility.
--
Jean-Michel
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In message <04f7a7645c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

Aha, I think you've got it - Configure->Keyboard is showing "Russia"
even now, after resetting (and configuring) *Country to "UK", which
means that every time I reboot, the computer is reading back that
keyboard setting and overwriting the ROM configuration! So if I reset
that window to Default, the problem should be fixed.

I didn't know that part of !Configure even existed....

Happy this worked for you :)

Regards
--
Paul Stewart - Milton Keynes Marina, Milton Keynes, England. (msn:paulstewart@phawfaux.co.uk)


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 3 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Paul Stewart wrote:

In message <04f7a7645c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

Aha, I think you've got it - Configure->Keyboard is showing "Russia"
even now, after resetting (and configuring) *Country to "UK", which
means that every time I reboot, the computer is reading back that
keyboard setting and overwriting the ROM configuration! So if I reset that window to Default, the problem should be fixed.

I didn't know that part of !Configure even existed....

Happy this worked for you :)

Yes, after a reset I now have a UK keyboard and not a US one. :-)
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Save energy: be apathetic.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 1 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Jean-Michel wrote:

[snip]

By changing the keyboard in Configure Keyboard, we change Country and therefore the keyboard.
From PRM3/p780:
"Remember that you should normally only need to change the country setting as this will also change the keyboard."
The Country Russia command line is enough to use the keyboard with
!Netsurf

Unfortunately for me it apparently isn't, because I don't get the right characters when I press the appropriate keys.
Also, I suspect that any website into which you try to enter Cyrillic
probably wouldn't recognise RISC OS 'Cyrillic encoding' but would expect Unicode of some flavour, but I haven't even managed to get that far....

N.B.
I discovered this morning that you could have Cyrillic characters in Stronged, just choose in the Panelfont: System
Change with configure keyboard to russia. You need to use shift + alt to
get cyrillic characters otherwise it will be a US keyboard.

At the moment (after typing *Country Russia) I don't get any visible
characters at all with Bitmap: System font set, and get Latin-1
characters in the ASCII 127+ range with System: OS system font (8x16)
set.

Another manipulation which explains above. Open !Char and select: System Font.
Now open Configure Keyboard and change the country !Char update its
display.

I have seen this working in the past, but I can't seem to replicate the results.
What I can do is open the Chars window and select a *non*-System font
that actually contains encodings beyond the default, e.g. DejaVu, at
which point I can change the Encoding option (normally greyed out
because I default to System font in !Chars) to Greek or Cyrillic and
view Cyrillic characters in the 127+ range. I can't seem to alter the
encoding from within StrongED or !Edit, though, which means that
selecting the Cyrillic keyboard is just generating accented Latin-1
characters there.
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Dawn: The time when men of reason go to bed.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In message <912342665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

On 1 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Jean-Michel wrote:

[snip]

By changing the keyboard in Configure Keyboard, we change Country and
therefore the keyboard.
From PRM3/p780:
"Remember that you should normally only need to change the country setting >> as this will also change the keyboard."
The Country Russia command line is enough to use the keyboard with
!Netsurf

Unfortunately for me it apparently isn't, because I don't get the right characters when I press the appropriate keys.

You have to press alt (left)+ shift otherwise you have a US keyboard

Also, I suspect that any website into which you try to enter Cyrillic probably wouldn't recognise RISC OS 'Cyrillic encoding' but would expect Unicode of some flavour, but I haven't even managed to get that far....

You must be right.

N.B.
I discovered this morning that you could have Cyrillic characters in
Stronged, just choose in the Panelfont: System
Change with configure keyboard to russia. You need to use shift + alt to
get cyrillic characters otherwise it will be a US keyboard.

At the moment (after typing *Country Russia) I don't get any visible characters at all with Bitmap: System font set, and get Latin-1
characters in the ASCII 127+ range with System: OS system font (8x16)
set.

Indeed it only works after having made the change in Configure Keyboard.

Another manipulation which explains above. Open !Char and select: System
Font.
Now open Configure Keyboard and change the country !Char update its
display.

I have seen this working in the past, but I can't seem to replicate the results.
What I can do is open the Chars window and select a *non*-System font
that actually contains encodings beyond the default, e.g. DejaVu, at
which point I can change the Encoding option (normally greyed out
because I default to System font in !Chars) to Greek or Cyrillic and
view Cyrillic characters in the 127+ range. I can't seem to alter the encoding from within StrongED or !Edit, though, which means that
selecting the Cyrillic keyboard is just generating accented Latin-1 characters there.

!Configure keyboard Russia and keys alt+shift work for Edit and StrongEd

I do not know if it is useful to you, but it is especially not very
simple, a text editor UTF-8 would be better.
--
Jean-Michel
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In article <912342665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

The Country Russia command line is enough to use the keyboard with !Netsurf

Unfortunately for me it apparently isn't, because I don't get the right characters when I press the appropriate keys.

I seem to remember that you use the Bukinist font for that, which has its
very own encoding. When using ArialUni (or any other comprehensive unicode font) and choose Russ Uni in !KeyMap, you will be able to type cyrillic, at least in !Edit, certainly in !Dict, and even sort of in NetSurf.

When doing so in NetSurf on my setup, every cyrillic character is
annoyingly preceded by an 'a' - I don't know why. Removing those a's
however will result in a searchable Russian word or phrase.

Paul
--
https://riscos.sprie.nl
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In message <912342665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
on 4 Oct 2025 Harriet Bazley wrote:

On 1 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Jean-Michel wrote:

[snip]

By changing the keyboard in Configure Keyboard, we change Country and
therefore the keyboard.
From PRM3/p780:
"Remember that you should normally only need to change the country setting >> as this will also change the keyboard."
The Country Russia command line is enough to use the keyboard with
!Netsurf

Unfortunately for me it apparently isn't, because I don't get the right characters when I press the appropriate keys.
Also, I suspect that any website into which you try to enter Cyrillic probably wouldn't recognise RISC OS 'Cyrillic encoding' but would expect Unicode of some flavour, but I haven't even managed to get that far....

If you manage to type or paste characters into a form in NetSurf and see Cyrillic, then you will be fine. NetSurf is well aware of character
encodings and will make sure that what is transmitted to the server is
encoded in some form of Unicode where appropriate.

I have not met KeyMap (where do you get it?) but I have experimented with XChars from Martin Wuerthner. It allows you to show fonts in different encodings. I have also just been trying out Chars version 2.05 which I
hadn't explored before because our main day-to-day RISC OS computer is
still on quite an old version of the operating system.

I can't offer any help on keyboards, but if you want to use Chars or
XChars to enter characters into NetSurf, what I find is crucial is the alphabet setting. NetSurf assumes (as all applications should) that the
key values transmitted in the Key Pressed event (8) are encoded in the
current alphabet. You can view the current alphabet with *alphabet and
the list of available alphabets with *alphabets.

If you change the alphabet to UTF8:
*alphabet utf8
and then run Chars, selecting a decent font with Cyrillic characters in
(e.g. FreeSans or FreeSerif) then you can switch to UTF-8 encoding in
Chars and the category Cyrillic. You should then find that none of the characters are shown greyed out, and you can left click over any of them
or press Shift to insert them into the keyboard stream. What then happens
is that the Wimp will send multiple Key Pressed events, each corresponding
to a single byte of the UTF-8 encoding for the character, and
knowledgeable applications like NetSurf will then do the right thing with them.

(I'd be interested to know if any applications other than NetSurf are
aware of the current alphabet in this way. I happen to be developing one
at the moment.)

Unfortunately, although NetSurf adapts immediately on the alphabet being changed, you would have to restart Chars for it to become aware. If you switch the alphabet back to Latin1 and then click on a non-ASCII character
in Chars, you will find two or three characters appearing in the keyboard stream corresponding to the UTF-8 bytes of a multi-byte character.

Another way of working is to set the alphabet to Latin1 initially and then start Chars or XChars. Display the font you want, and pick an 8-bit
encoding (so not UTF-8) that contains the characters you want to type
(e.g. Cyrillic). Then issue the command "*alphabet cyrillic", and you
will find that Chars or XChars will send the correct key codes for NetSurf
to pick them up and enter Cyrillic in the form. It's a bit of a faff to
issue the star command whenever you switch encoding in the Chars display.

It would be very nice if Chars had an automatic option whereby if you
click on a character that is not supported in the current alphabet, Chars switches to an appropriate alphabet (or perhaps just UTF-8) transmits the
key, and then switches back to the configured alphabet. That would make entering unusual characters into NetSurf rather easier.
--
Matthew Phillips
Durham
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In article <3feb83665c.Matthew@sinenomine.co.uk>,
Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

*alphabet utf8

That did it!
Now I can type Russian into NetSurf and search for everything that I want. Therefore I use !KeyMap (www.riscos.sprie.nl), choose Russ Uni-f (my
personal lay out of Cyrillic) and the ArialUni font.

Paul

PS
!Dict accepts unicode cyrillic too, even without setting the alphabet to
utf8.
--
https://riscos.sprie.nl
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 4 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Paul Sprangers wrote:

In article <912342665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

The Country Russia command line is enough to use the keyboard with !Netsurf

Unfortunately for me it apparently isn't, because I don't get the right characters when I press the appropriate keys.

I seem to remember that you use the Bukinist font for that, which has its very own encoding.

That was the one supplied with !KeyMap....

It is supposed to work with the Russ1251 keymap, but while that is fine
in Impression (or Edit if I set it to display the Bukinist font) I can't
get it to work in Netsurf. I just get accented Latin-1 characters for
some reason.

When using ArialUni (or any other comprehensive unicode font) and
choose Russ Uni in !KeyMap, you will be able to type cyrillic, at
least in !Edit, certainly in !Dict, and even sort of in NetSurf.

When doing so in NetSurf on my setup, every cyrillic character is
annoyingly preceded by an 'a' - I don't know why. Removing those a's
however will result in a searchable Russian word or phrase.

NetSurf is using Cyberbit (and I have Cyberbit configured for Keyboard
display in !KeyMap in the "Configure DKM" window), but I don't know to
type that into Netsurf. Whether I click on the virtual keyboard
(displaying Cyrillic characters with either Russ1251 or RussUni) or type directly or use !Chars with Cyrillic coding selected, I just get random upper-bit set Latin-1 characters that bear no visible relationship to
what I intended.

But I'm confused as to which of the various *Configure options I need to combine with !KeyMap - I had assumed that it automatically performed the relevant switching when you toggled between 'System' and the
currently-selected keymap. (I suspect that trying to combine the system configure and !KeyMap toggling is probably how I somehow ended up at
some point in the past with my keyboard set to Russia in !Boot...!)
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Let a fool hold his tongue and he will pass for a sage.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 4 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Jean-Michel wrote:

In message <912342665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

On 1 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Jean-Michel wrote:

[snip]

By changing the keyboard in Configure Keyboard, we change Country and
therefore the keyboard.
From PRM3/p780:
"Remember that you should normally only need to change the country setting >> as this will also change the keyboard."
The Country Russia command line is enough to use the keyboard with
!Netsurf

Unfortunately for me it apparently isn't, because I don't get the right characters when I press the appropriate keys.

You have to press alt (left)+ shift otherwise you have a US keyboard

Something seems to be bugged in my set-up at the moment, because every
time I type *Country Russia I get a long stream of random output in
response (although the keyboard does change)

*Country Russia
!"lll#666$?h>~%`f0f&8ll8mf;'(000)00*~<~+~,0-~./0`0<fn~vf<18~2<f0~3<ff<4<l~5~`|f<60`|ff<7~0008<ff<ff<9<ff>8:;0<0`0=~~>00?<f@<fnjn`<A<ff~fffB|ff|ff|C<f```f<DxlffflxE~``|``~F~``|```G<f`nff<Hfff~fffI~~J>l8KflxpxlfL``````~MckkccNffv~nffO<fffff<P|ff|```Q<fffjl6R|ff|lffS<f`<f<T~Uffffff<Vfffff<WcckwcXff<<ffYfff<Z~0`~[|`````|\`0]>>^<f_ `0a<>f>b``|fff|c<f`f<d>fff>e<f~`<f00|000g>ff><h``|ffffi8<j8pk``flxlfl8<mkkcn|ffffo<fff<p|ff|``q>ff>rlv```s>`<|t00|000uffff>vfff<wck6xf<<fyfff><z~0~{p|}00~1k aif~`|`~o~Zu~f```n6`x`6N<f`f<a<<of<<?l8-xXX^[#R-+++*##]2~Z4nlxln!~<fff~|>ffffff#<fff~ff#~``|ff|#|ffxff||~f`````|666c|~b`|`b~|kk**kk+>ff>+ccgkscc|kcgkscc|gflxlfg+33333c+cwkkccc+ccccc+>fffff|+~ffffff+~ff|```->f```f|-~Z|fff~kk+ff$$ff|lllll~|fff>+kkkkk+kkkkk-xX-|||<##<|```|ff|-8ll8++##+##+->ff>6ff->>f>-8`|ff<-|f|f|+~f```+,,~f+<f~`>+kk>kk+<ff<+co{ccco{cc+flxlf#333c#cwkcc[ff~ff]>fff|#~ffffa~ff|``b>f`f|r~Zpfff~kof<<fuffftff>*kkkokkknp0<6<o||<#<%``|f|0<ff<EN[{[NN>f>ffEAo+j#Eu+f<f~`>>`n`|fff<~f``r<fpf<j>`|%8=f8op*xX^[R.XX~[^+`n`|fff
nflxlf2<`<f<<*ffff~< ffff*

Also, I suspect that any website into which you try to enter Cyrillic probably wouldn't recognise RISC OS 'Cyrillic encoding' but would expect Unicode of some flavour, but I haven't even managed to get that far....

You must be right.

N.B.
I discovered this morning that you could have Cyrillic characters in
Stronged, just choose in the Panelfont: System
Change with configure keyboard to russia. You need to use shift + alt to >> get cyrillic characters otherwise it will be a US keyboard.

At the moment (after typing *Country Russia) I don't get any visible characters at all with Bitmap: System font set, and get Latin-1
characters in the ASCII 127+ range with System: OS system font (8x16)
set.

Indeed it only works after having made the change in Configure Keyboard.

But I thought the PRM said "Remember that you should normally only need
to change the country setting as this will also change the keyboard"?

Ooops - I just tried again in the Edit window with the font
Bukinist.1251 selected (after having quit !KeyMap) and did get Cyrillic
output. Not the correct output for what I typed - most of the letters
were coming out as capitals despite not being shifted, and the wrong
capitals at that - but at least visibly Cyrillic. And clicking on a
!Chars window (with encoding Default rather than Cyrillic!) does at
least produce the expected letters with that option set; the keyboard
mapping is just the wrong one.

And if I then run !KeyMap with the Russ 1251 mapping selected I can type
into Edit... which is the same result I get in Impression, so not
surprising I suppose. But not into Netsurf, because pressing the same
keys produces completely different output there.

Basically I am just completely confused as to what I am doing. :-(

Another manipulation which explains above. Open !Char and select: System >> Font.
Now open Configure Keyboard and change the country !Char update its
display.

I have seen this working in the past, but I can't seem to replicate the results.
What I can do is open the Chars window and select a *non*-System font
that actually contains encodings beyond the default, e.g. DejaVu, at
which point I can change the Encoding option (normally greyed out
because I default to System font in !Chars) to Greek or Cyrillic and
view Cyrillic characters in the 127+ range. I can't seem to alter the encoding from within StrongED or !Edit, though, which means that
selecting the Cyrillic keyboard is just generating accented Latin-1 characters there.

!Configure keyboard Russia and keys alt+shift work for Edit and StrongEd

I haven't got it to work in StrongED yet....

(Also, there is a problem with !KeyMap in that it doesn't seem to be
passing on F12 keypresses, which means that every time I want to open a taskwindow while KeyMap is loaded I have to go to the Task Manager
menu!)
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Don't hate yourself in the morning - sleep till noon.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 04/10/2025 13:41, Harriet Bazley wrote:
<SNIP>

Basically I am just completely confused as to what I am doing. :-(

<SNIP>

(Also, there is a problem with !KeyMap in that it doesn't seem to be
passing on F12 keypresses, which means that every time I want to open a taskwindow while KeyMap is loaded I have to go to the Task Manager
menu!)

You are sure your hardware is good? Tried a different keyboard?
--
Michael Howard

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 4 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Paul Sprangers wrote:

In article <3feb83665c.Matthew@sinenomine.co.uk>,
Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

*alphabet utf8

That did it!
Now I can type Russian into NetSurf and search for everything that I want. Therefore I use !KeyMap (www.riscos.sprie.nl), choose Russ Uni-f (my
personal lay out of Cyrillic) and the ArialUni font.

Aha! That works.

So I don't need to set *Country or *Keyboard at all - it turns out they
can both be UK. And it has the bonus effect that I can still type in
Latin text (and even use quotation marks on the 2 key!) while *alphabet
is set to UTF8, provided the key mapping remains at its default setting,
which makes it a lot easier to switch back again.

All I need to do is to set *Alphabet UTF8, run !Keymap and set it to the
Russ Uni key mapping for Cyberbit in Netsurf, upon which I can
touch-type Russian words into a Netsurf input icon. That should make
life a *lot* easier than needing to do a phonetic search for the
quotation I'm looking for, or else cutting and pasting a single
character (plus linefeed which then has to be deleted) at a time, which
is what I've resorted to in the past....


Presumably there are reasons why it would be inadvisable to leave
*Alphabet permanently set to UTF8?
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

You cannot kill time without injuring eternity.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 4 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Sniffer wrote:

On 04/10/2025 13:41, Harriet Bazley wrote:
<SNIP>

Basically I am just completely confused as to what I am doing. :-(

<SNIP>

(Also, there is a problem with !KeyMap in that it doesn't seem to be passing on F12 keypresses, which means that every time I want to open a taskwindow while KeyMap is loaded I have to go to the Task Manager
menu!)

You are sure your hardware is good? Tried a different keyboard?

I worked that one out - it isn't while !KeyMap is resident on the
iconbar, it's whenever its virtual keyboard window is open. The window
seems to be eating F12, although not any other F-key....

The random character output following *Country changes in a taskwindow
appears to be an Edit issue. At least, it doesn't happen in a StrongED taskwindow!
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

People who live in stone houses shouldn't throw glasses.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 4 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Matthew Phillips wrote:

In message <912342665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>
on 4 Oct 2025 Harriet Bazley wrote:

I suspect that any website into which you try to enter Cyrillic
probably wouldn't recognise RISC OS 'Cyrillic encoding' but would expect Unicode of some flavour, but I haven't even managed to get that far....

If you manage to type or paste characters into a form in NetSurf and see Cyrillic, then you will be fine.

Good point - I already discovered that copying and pasting Cyrillic text already being displayed by Netsurf itself is supported (although dragged
saves are not, so I have to remember to go via the global clipboard!)

NetSurf is well aware of character encodings and will make sure that
what is transmitted to the server is encoded in some form of Unicode
where appropriate.

I have not met KeyMap (where do you get it?)

I was recommended it on the NetSurf mailing list: it resides at http://www.riscos.sprie.nl/sprang.riscos/Pages/KeyMap.html

Its main applicability in this case was supposed to be the ability to
generate Unicode output, but I only got this working in the case of
typing directly into the minimal !Dict window (as opposed to the normal iconbar-resident application) and didn't get Dict working with Russian
input. Originally the issue was the lack of an appropriate dictionary
server (the ones supplied in the download are no longer valid), but when
I tried it again just now it simply crashed instead of generating
output.
Although to be fair it may have crashed due to trying to use an
inappropriate server....

Mainly I use it as a convenient Russian keyboard layout display, as my touch-typing is still far from reliable! I suppose using it as a !Chars analogue might actually be faster now that I have worked out the correct configuration settings to do it, but of course my Russian keyboard
layout typing will never improve without practice. :-(

but I have experimented with XChars from Martin Wuerthner. It allows
you to show fonts in different encodings. I have also just been trying
out Chars version 2.05 which I hadn't explored before because our main day-to-day RISC OS computer is still on quite an old version of the
operating system.

I seem to have !Chars 2.06, which does offer the possibility to set
Encoding and Category.

I can't offer any help on keyboards, but if you want to use Chars or
XChars to enter characters into NetSurf, what I find is crucial is the alphabet setting. NetSurf assumes (as all applications should) that the
key values transmitted in the Key Pressed event (8) are encoded in the current alphabet. You can view the current alphabet with *alphabet and
the list of available alphabets with *alphabets.

If you change the alphabet to UTF8:
*alphabet utf8
and then run Chars, selecting a decent font with Cyrillic characters in (e.g. FreeSans or FreeSerif) then you can switch to UTF-8 encoding in
Chars and the category Cyrillic. You should then find that none of the characters are shown greyed out, and you can left click over any of them
or press Shift to insert them into the keyboard stream. What then happens is that the Wimp will send multiple Key Pressed events, each corresponding to a single byte of the UTF-8 encoding for the character, and
knowledgeable applications like NetSurf will then do the right thing with them.

This doesn't seem to work for me (with the Cyberbit font) unless I also
use KeyMap to change the keyboard mapping.

(Oh wait, it did that time...)

Interestingly, if I switch to the Bukinist.1251 font with Encoding UTF-8
and Category Latin, I can see the Cyrillic characters but not type them;
the 'help text' at the bottom of the !Chars window correctly predicts
what will appear if that character is actually clicked upon, as opposed
to what is displayed, e.g. a Cyrillic YA is described as U+00DF LATIN
SMALL LETTER SHARP S, and if I use Chars to enter that letter into a
Netsurf input box I get an eszett.

But if I ask Chars to display the Bukinist.1251 font with Encoding
Cyrillic and Category Cyrillic, the lower part of the display window is completely blank (no greyed-out letters), but clicking on the invisible
letters as per the help text (e.g. U+042F CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER YA)
does generate the advertised Unicode character. You just can't see
them.

[snip]

Another way of working is to set the alphabet to Latin1 initially and then start Chars or XChars. Display the font you want, and pick an 8-bit encoding (so not UTF-8) that contains the characters you want to type
(e.g. Cyrillic). Then issue the command "*alphabet cyrillic", and you
will find that Chars or XChars will send the correct key codes for NetSurf to pick them up and enter Cyrillic in the form. It's a bit of a faff to issue the star command whenever you switch encoding in the Chars display.

Yes, does seem to work with Cyberbit and DejaVu, both of which contain
Cyrillic encoding. (Doesn't work with Bukinist because as mentioned
the characters are there but invisible, so you can't see what you're
going to get! I think some part of the font definition must be missing
on that one....)
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Everyone hates me because I'm paranoid.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In article <29189e665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

Presumably there are reasons why it would be inadvisable to leave
*Alphabet permanently set to UTF8?

It upsets some characters in menus, noticeably those that represent key
short cuts.

Paul
--
https://riscos.sprie.nl
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In article <63699e665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

[...] it isn't while !KeyMap is resident on the
iconbar, it's whenever its virtual keyboard window is open.

In KeyMap it's possible to assign any character to any key, thus creating
your own keyboard layout. The virtual keyboard isn't needed then. But I
suppose you already knew that.

Paul
--
https://riscos.sprie.nl
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In article <410ea2665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

[...] didn't get Dict working with Russian
input. Originally the issue was the lack of an appropriate dictionary
server (the ones supplied in the download are no longer valid),

Dict servers tend to come and go, which is a shame.
Currently, these two Russian dicts seem to work:

server pkgs4unix.org
server dict.mova.org

Add them to the /dictrc file within Recourses.!UnixHome.home. Both are
quite comprehensive (they even harbour a Dutch monolingual dictionary!)

Paul
--
https://riscos.sprie.nl
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 4 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

Presumably there are reasons why it would be inadvisable to leave
*Alphabet permanently set to UTF8?

Well, one is that it makes a real mess of WIMP menus. :-D
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Sattinger's Law: It works better if you plug it in.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 4 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Paul Sprangers wrote:

In article <63699e665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

[...] it isn't while !KeyMap is resident on the
iconbar, it's whenever its virtual keyboard window is open.

In KeyMap it's possible to assign any character to any key, thus creating your own keyboard layout. The virtual keyboard isn't needed then. But I suppose you already knew that.

I'm mainly using the virtual keyboard as an onscreen guide to the key positions, rather than actually typing on it - I could just load a Draw
file (or even print it out and put it on the wall behind the computer!),
but since I had KeyMap on the iconbar anyway in order to switch the
keyboard layout it seemed more convenient to take advantage of its
presence.

It's just awkward not to be able to use my customary keypress to open a taskwindow when I have accidentally left KeyMap's window open behind
something else onscreen....
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

At the cutting edge of technology, one tends to end up bleeding
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 4 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Paul Sprangers wrote:

In article <29189e665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

Presumably there are reasons why it would be inadvisable to leave
*Alphabet permanently set to UTF8?

It upsets some characters in menus, noticeably those that represent key
short cuts.

Yes, I just noticed that one!
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Old Programmers never die. They just terminate and stay resident
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 04/10/2025 18:47, Paul Sprangers wrote:

In article <29189e665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

Presumably there are reasons why it would be inadvisable to leave
*Alphabet permanently set to UTF8?

It upsets some characters in menus, noticeably those that represent key
short cuts.

That's because those characters aren't part of code page and are only
present in a few Acorn sourced fonts.

---druck
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 4 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Paul Sprangers wrote:

In article <410ea2665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

[...] didn't get Dict working with Russian
input. Originally the issue was the lack of an appropriate dictionary server (the ones supplied in the download are no longer valid),

Dict servers tend to come and go, which is a shame.
Currently, these two Russian dicts seem to work:

server pkgs4unix.org
server dict.mova.org

*experiments*

Apparently in order to use Cyrillic in !Dict, as opposed to Netsurf, I
need to set Alphabet to Latin1 and set Keyboard Russia (as opposed to
UTF8 and UK)....

Having successfully typed in a string to the reduced Dict window and
pressed Return, I get a window popping up (with a jumbled Latin-1 title, presumably because, as I've noticed with Netsurf, RISC OS doesn't
support non-Latin characters in title bars) which says

1 definition found at pkgs4unix.org

From -i-+-+-#-#-C-i -U-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-# -Y.-E-#-C-#-+-+-#-# [abr1w]:

error: The request is not a valid UTF-8 string


Same result from dict.mova.org.
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 4 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

[snip]

Having successfully typed in a string to the reduced Dict window and
pressed Return, I get a window popping up (with a jumbled Latin-1 title, presumably because, as I've noticed with Netsurf, RISC OS doesn't
support non-Latin characters in title bars) which says

1 definition found at pkgs4unix.org

From -i-+-+-#-#-C-i -U-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-# -Y.-E-#-C-#-+-+-#-# [abr1w]:

error: The request is not a valid UTF-8 string

Ah, I think that's because at some point in the past I had configured
!Dict to use Bukinist in its input icon. So while it displays Cyrillic
at the RISC OS end, it isn't sending Unicode (apparently).

If I reconfigure !Dict to use Cyberbit and switch keyboard mapping to
Russ Uni, then for the string 'shut' (in Cyrillic) I get a variety of definitions, many of which are either *in* Russian or into languages I
don't speak (Polish, Hebrew), but the third one down is 'jester, fool',
which is the correct answer. :-)


(I eventually managed to decipher the original word in the video that
was giving me trouble by means of the traditional method of
back-translation, i.e. guessing what it might have been from context and
then looking up the possibilities in the English-Russian dictionary to
see which words matched. Not 'khust', as I had heard it, but 'kholst',
a painter's canvas - and no wonder I didn't recognise that piece of vocabulary!)
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Eschew Obfuscation.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In article <89e7ab665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

Apparently in order to use Cyrillic in !Dict, as opposed to Netsurf, I
need to set Alphabet to Latin1 and set Keyboard Russia (as opposed to
UTF8 and UK)....

That shouldn't be necessary at all. KeyMap produces cyrillic characters independent from alphabet or keyboard settings.

Having successfully typed in a string to the reduced Dict window and
pressed Return, I get a window popping up (with a jumbled Latin-1 title, presumably because, as I've noticed with Netsurf, RISC OS doesn't
support non-Latin characters in title bars) which says

1 definition found at pkgs4unix.org

From -#]--a% b+[][+#]- +.#-a-#]-- [abr1w]:

Have you configured a unicode font in Choices, under Bodytext? If so, it
should show the suffix \EUTF8 automatically. It won't do so with Bukinist.

Paul
--
https://riscos.sprie.nl
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In article <073faf665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

Ah, I think that's because at some point in the past I had configured
!Dict to use Bukinist in its input icon.

Ah, cross postings.
But I will have a look at why F12 doesn't work when the virtual keyboard of KeyMap is open. I never noticed that.

Paul
--
https://riscos.sprie.nl
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 4 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Paul Sprangers wrote:

I will have a look at why F12 doesn't work when the virtual keyboard of KeyMap is open. I never noticed that.

That's quite a common problem in apps that intercept keypresses - so far
as I recall you need to explicitly check for F12 and pass it on. I'm
not sure I've written any programs with windows that do react to
keypresses....

Ah, here we are: SideDiff.

If responding to a KeyPressed event in Wimp_Poll, the application needs
to call Wimp_ProcessKey afterwards with any keypresses in which it is
*not* interested in order to re-broadcast them around the desktop. Since
KeyMap is designed to potentially map all keys on the keyboard to some
other key (which might I suppose include the F12 key, if the user wished
it!) it probably isn't making any exceptions.
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Justice: A decision in your favour.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 4 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Paul Sprangers wrote:

In article <89e7ab665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

Apparently in order to use Cyrillic in !Dict, as opposed to Netsurf, I
need to set Alphabet to Latin1 and set Keyboard Russia (as opposed to
UTF8 and UK)....

I think that was because in the distant past I had configured !Dict to
to Bukinist as its icon input font (that being the only one I had
managed to establish a working key-mapping for). With Cyberbit
configured as input font I seem to be able to type into !Dict just by
switching to RussUni

(sigh: except that having done so, I'm still getting 'The request is
not a valid UTF-8 string". I wonder if the issue is my attempt to use
the arrow keys to edit a typo, which definitely seems to require
multiple keypresses to move past each character? Or just that my
Russian spelling is dodgy in the first place?)

Edit: definitely using the arrow keys to try to delete things. I can reproduce that.

That shouldn't be necessary at all. KeyMap produces cyrillic characters independent from alphabet or keyboard settings.

Indeed, having configured StrongED to use Cyberbit as its display text
for News mode while experimenting, I just accidentally typed a string of Cyrillic into this text without noticing! A feat I unfortunately seem currently able to reproduce, though I did notice the arrow key/deletion
issues there as well... which makes sense, since the concept of 'one
character per keypress' is probably hardwired all over RISC OS.

I'm not sure using it in StrongED is a good strategy, as for some reason
I seem to be producing far more typos than normal, though I don't quite
see how the two can be connected! (I'm not used to using an outline
font/bar cursor in StrongED at all.)

Having successfully typed in a string to the reduced Dict window and pressed Return, I get a window popping up (with a jumbled Latin-1 title, presumably because, as I've noticed with Netsurf, RISC OS doesn't
support non-Latin characters in title bars) which says

1 definition found at pkgs4unix.org

From |U|c|R|A|E|a|4 |i|y|Y|R|Y|y|L|R|A -+.-#|a|a|E|L|R|A|E [abr1w]:

Have you configured a unicode font in Choices, under Bodytext? If so, it should show the suffix \EUTF8 automatically. It won't do so with Bukinist.

Bodytext is configured to Cyberbit\EUTF8.

But Bold and Italic are still set to Homerton\UTF8, which may be
the problem here...

Ah, that's better - I tried using DejaVu for both, and now get my Froms
in valid Cyrillic. :-)
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In article <4a64f8665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

That's quite a common problem in apps that intercept keypresses - so far
as I recall you need to explicitly check for F12 and pass it on.

Okay, KeyMap didn't react on keypresses at all, but now it does, just to
pass on F12. Version 1.05 is now ready for download at www.riscos.sprie.nl

Paul
--
https://riscos.sprie.nl
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 5 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Paul Sprangers wrote:

In article <4a64f8665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

That's quite a common problem in apps that intercept keypresses - so far
as I recall you need to explicitly check for F12 and pass it on.

Okay, KeyMap didn't react on keypresses at all, but now it does, just to
pass on F12. Version 1.05 is now ready for download at www.riscos.sprie.nl

Nice!

*rereading manual for changes*
I had forgotten about the ability to Toggle Size on the Keyboard window
to display extra keys.

(The download seems to have acquired a lot of 'odd' extra keymaps, e.g.
'Test', 'Blank' and 'Woodtype', that you possibly didn't intend to
include in a distribution version...?)
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

A man's best friend is his dogma.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

On 5 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Harriet Bazley wrote:

On 5 Oct 2025 as I do recall,
Paul Sprangers wrote:

In article <4a64f8665c.harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

That's quite a common problem in apps that intercept keypresses - so far as I recall you need to explicitly check for F12 and pass it on.

Okay, KeyMap didn't react on keypresses at all, but now it does, just to pass on F12. Version 1.05 is now ready for download at www.riscos.sprie.nl

Nice!

NB if the app doesn't need to react to any keypresses at all, it might
be simpler just to use the pollmask to mask out the KeyPress Wimp_Poll
event altogether....
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Egotist: A person of low taste, more interested in himself than me.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.acorn.misc

In article <fec604675c.admin@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:

(The download seems to have acquired a lot of 'odd' extra keymaps, e.g. 'Test', 'Blank' and 'Woodtype', that you possibly didn't intend to
include in a distribution version...?)

NB if the app doesn't need to react to any keypresses at all, it might be simpler just to use the pollmask to mask out the KeyPress Wimp_Poll event altogether....

All very true. It was all last minute work (concert).

Paul
--
https://riscos.sprie.nl
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