From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms


I'm running VMS 4.7 on a simh vaxen and I'm trying to create a standalone backup to tape but I'm having some issues. I suspect it's a PEBCAK.

simh> attach tq0 stabac.tap # tq is an emulated TU81

$ @SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT

Enter the name of the device on which to build the kit: MUA0

Do you want to initialize _VAX1$MUA0:? Note that this will erase all
files currently on the volume.

It is not necessary to initialize the disk, and you would not want to initialize if you want to add a kit to an existing Files-11 disk. The
disk must be a valid Files-11 disk if you wish to skip initializing,
however.

Do you want to initialize [Yes/No, default No]: yes
Enter the new volume label [default STANDBACKUP]: STABAC
%INIT-F-ILLOPT, qualifier(s) not appropriate to this device

Ending time 27-SEP-2025 03:26:09.80
Starting time 27-SEP-2025 03:25:52.50

An error or abort occurred, the kit is incomplete.

$ INIT MUA0: STABAC
$ @SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT

Enter the name of the device on which to build the kit: MUA0

Do you want to initialize _VAX1$MUA0:? Note that this will erase all
files currently on the volume.

It is not necessary to initialize the disk, and you would not want to initialize if you want to add a kit to an existing Files-11 disk. The
disk must be a valid Files-11 disk if you wish to skip initializing,
however.

Do you want to initialize [Yes/No, default No]: no

%MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, STABAC mounted on _VAX1$MUA0:
Sysgen parameters for standalone VMS have been placed in file
SYS$SYSROOT:<SYSUPD>VAXVMSSYS.PAR-TEMP-00000099;1 %CREATE-E-DIRNOTCRE, STA$TARGET directory file not created
-LIB-F-INVFILSPE, invalid file specification
%DELETE-I-FILDEL, SYS$SYSROOT:<SYSUPD>VAXVMSSYS.PAR-TEMP-00000099;1 deleted (16 blocks)

Ending time 27-SEP-2025 03:28:10.15
Starting time 27-SEP-2025 03:27:37.79

An error or abort occurred, the kit is incomplete.

$
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

Am 24.09.2025 um 17:40 schrieb retrev@csh.rit.edu:

Enter the new volume label [default STANDBACKUP]: STABAC

%INIT-F-ILLOPT, qualifier(s) not appropriate to this device
...
%CREATE-E-DIRNOTCRE, STA$TARGET directory file not created
-LIB-F-INVFILSPE, invalid file specification

Are you sure, that STABACKIT.COM from V4.7 supports building the
standalone backup kit on tape ?

The length of the default label name seems to indicate, that it does not recognize the new volume as a tape (max. 6 chars for a tape label).

Also try $ SET DEF [] before invoking STABACKIT.COM - some procedures
may not like '<' and '>' in directory specifications.

Volker.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

On Wed, 24 Sep 2025 15:40:07 GMT, retrev@csh.rit.edu wrote:

$ @SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT

Is there a way to tell it to SET VERIFY? Maybe seeing the exact command triggering the error will give a clue.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

On 2025-09-24, retrev csh.rit.edu <user7506@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

I'm running VMS 4.7 on a simh vaxen and I'm trying to create a standalone backup to tape but I'm having some issues. I suspect it's a PEBCAK.

simh> attach tq0 stabac.tap # tq is an emulated TU81

$ @SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT

Enter the name of the device on which to build the kit: MUA0

Do you want to initialize _VAX1$MUA0:? Note that this will erase all
files currently on the volume.

Have you tried with an emulated TK50 device instead ?

Also, when was the TU81 supported in VMS, and did it need a patch kit
to enable that support ?

Simon.
--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

On 2025-09-25 14:35, Simon Clubley wrote:

On 2025-09-24, retrev csh.rit.edu <user7506@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

I'm running VMS 4.7 on a simh vaxen and I'm trying to create a standalone backup to tape but I'm having some issues. I suspect it's a PEBCAK.

simh> attach tq0 stabac.tap # tq is an emulated TU81

$ @SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT

Enter the name of the device on which to build the kit: MUA0

Do you want to initialize _VAX1$MUA0:? Note that this will erase all
files currently on the volume.

Have you tried with an emulated TK50 device instead ?

Also, when was the TU81 supported in VMS, and did it need a patch kit
to enable that support ?

TU81 - TK50. Both are TMSCP tape drives. If one works, the other works.

But as asked by Volker - standalone backup on a tape? As far as I know,
that was generally not supported. Old VAXen in general can't boot off
tape. (MicroVAX being the first exception.) That's why the standalong
backup exists. Because if you have a full backup of the system on tape,
you need a way to recover that back to disk, in addition to a way of
doing an initial install on disk. Standalone backup is what provides
this. Done via floppies on the VAX-11/780, DECtape II on the VAX-11/750
and /730. Exists on the FE RL02 on the VAX 86x0.

I never used many machines beyond that, so someone else needs to fill in
the rest. :-)

(And "can't boot off tape" is meant in the general sense in that VMB
didn't have the capability. Of course you could always write your own bootstrap which booted off tape if you were inclined.)

Johnny

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms


Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> posted:

On 2025-09-25 14:35, Simon Clubley wrote:

On 2025-09-24, retrev csh.rit.edu <user7506@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

I'm running VMS 4.7 on a simh vaxen and I'm trying to create a standalone backup to tape but I'm having some issues. I suspect it's a PEBCAK.

simh> attach tq0 stabac.tap # tq is an emulated TU81

$ @SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT

Enter the name of the device on which to build the kit: MUA0

Do you want to initialize _VAX1$MUA0:? Note that this will erase all
files currently on the volume.

Have you tried with an emulated TK50 device instead ?

Also, when was the TU81 supported in VMS, and did it need a patch kit
to enable that support ?

TU81 - TK50. Both are TMSCP tape drives. If one works, the other works.

But as asked by Volker - standalone backup on a tape? As far as I know,
that was generally not supported. Old VAXen in general can't boot off
tape. (MicroVAX being the first exception.) That's why the standalong
backup exists. Because if you have a full backup of the system on tape,
you need a way to recover that back to disk, in addition to a way of
doing an initial install on disk. Standalone backup is what provides
this. Done via floppies on the VAX-11/780, DECtape II on the VAX-11/750
and /730. Exists on the FE RL02 on the VAX 86x0.

I never used many machines beyond that, so someone else needs to fill in
the rest. :-)

(And "can't boot off tape" is meant in the general sense in that VMB
didn't have the capability. Of course you could always write your own bootstrap which booted off tape if you were inclined.)

Johnny

It was because it's a tape. I've got a floppy bootstrap to allow boot from tape but I hadn't realized I wouldn't actually be able to generate the stabac on the tape.

Since I'm emulating and so hardware isn't an issue and I just wanted the standalone as a last resort backup I just created an ra82 for the backup. Disk space is cheap these days.

I was able to run a full system/user backup to the tape which is what I intend to use as the primary backup source.

Thanks for all the pointers.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

On 9/25/2025 9:59 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:

On 2025-09-25 14:35, Simon Clubley wrote:

On 2025-09-24, retrev-a csh.rit.edu <user7506@newsgrouper.org.invalid>
wrote:

I'm running VMS 4.7 on a simh vaxen and I'm trying to create a
standalone backup to tape but I'm having some issues. I suspect it's
a PEBCAK.

simh> attach tq0 stabac.tap-a-a-a-a # tq is an emulated TU81

$ @SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT

Enter the name of the device on which to build the kit: MUA0

Do you want to initialize _VAX1$MUA0:?-a Note that this will erase all
files currently on the volume.

Have you tried with an emulated TK50 device instead ?

Also, when was the TU81 supported in VMS, and did it need a patch kit
to enable that support ?

TU81 - TK50. Both are TMSCP tape drives. If one works, the other works.

But as asked by Volker - standalone backup on a tape? As far as I know,
that was generally not supported. Old VAXen in general can't boot off
tape. (MicroVAX being the first exception.) That's why the standalong
backup exists. Because if you have a full backup of the system on tape,
you need a way to recover that back to disk, in addition to a way of
doing an initial install on disk. Standalone backup is what provides
this. Done via floppies on the VAX-11/780, DECtape II on the VAX-11/750
and /730. Exists on the FE RL02 on the VAX 86x0.

I never used many machines beyond that, so someone else needs to fill in
the rest. :-)

(And "can't boot off tape" is meant in the general sense in that VMB
didn't have the capability. Of course you could always write your own bootstrap which booted off tape if you were inclined.)

MicroVAX'es could boot of tape. And one could backup the system
disk to another tape when booted.

Booting was painfully slow. As I remember it 35 years later, then
it was like 30 minutes from 9 track tape and 2 hours from TK50.

Arne

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

On 9/25/2025 2:40 PM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:

On 9/25/2025 9:59 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:

On 2025-09-25 14:35, Simon Clubley wrote:

On 2025-09-24, retrev csh.rit.edu <user7506@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

I'm running VMS 4.7 on a simh vaxen and I'm trying to create a standalone >>>> backup to tape but I'm having some issues. I suspect it's a PEBCAK.

simh> attach tq0 stabac.tap # tq is an emulated TU81

$ @SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT

Enter the name of the device on which to build the kit: MUA0

Do you want to initialize _VAX1$MUA0:? Note that this will erase all
files currently on the volume.

Have you tried with an emulated TK50 device instead ?

Also, when was the TU81 supported in VMS, and did it need a patch kit
to enable that support ?

TU81 - TK50. Both are TMSCP tape drives. If one works, the other works.

But as asked by Volker - standalone backup on a tape? As far as I know, that >> was generally not supported. Old VAXen in general can't boot off tape.
(MicroVAX being the first exception.) That's why the standalong backup exists.
Because if you have a full backup of the system on tape, you need a way to >> recover that back to disk, in addition to a way of doing an initial install on
disk. Standalone backup is what provides this. Done via floppies on the
VAX-11/780, DECtape II on the VAX-11/750 and /730. Exists on the FE RL02 on >> the VAX 86x0.

I never used many machines beyond that, so someone else needs to fill in the >> rest. :-)

(And "can't boot off tape" is meant in the general sense in that VMB didn't >> have the capability. Of course you could always write your own bootstrap which
booted off tape if you were inclined.)

MicroVAX'es could boot of tape. And one could backup the system
disk to another tape when booted.

Booting was painfully slow. As I remember it 35 years later, then
it was like 30 minutes from 9 track tape and 2 hours from TK50.

Arne

And then we had CD drives and things were much better.

Also, place a bootable kit on non-system drives and boot off them to backup system disk. Or use /IGNOREINTERLOCK (and duck when Steve throws something at you).

:-)
--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

On 28/09/2025 03:24, Dave Froble wrote:

On 9/25/2025 2:40 PM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:

On 9/25/2025 9:59 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:

On 2025-09-25 14:35, Simon Clubley wrote:

On 2025-09-24, retrev-a csh.rit.edu
<user7506@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

I'm running VMS 4.7 on a simh vaxen and I'm trying to create a
standalone
backup to tape but I'm having some issues. I suspect it's a PEBCAK.

simh> attach tq0 stabac.tap-a-a-a-a # tq is an emulated TU81

$ @SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT

Enter the name of the device on which to build the kit: MUA0

Do you want to initialize _VAX1$MUA0:?-a Note that this will erase all >>>>> files currently on the volume.

Have you tried with an emulated TK50 device instead ?

Also, when was the TU81 supported in VMS, and did it need a patch kit
to enable that support ?

TU81 - TK50. Both are TMSCP tape drives. If one works, the other works.

But as asked by Volker - standalone backup on a tape? As far as I
know, that
was generally not supported. Old VAXen in general can't boot off tape.
(MicroVAX being the first exception.) That's why the standalong
backup exists.
Because if you have a full backup of the system on tape, you need a
way to
recover that back to disk, in addition to a way of doing an initial
install on
disk. Standalone backup is what provides this. Done via floppies on the
VAX-11/780, DECtape II on the VAX-11/750 and /730. Exists on the FE
RL02 on
the VAX 86x0.

I never used many machines beyond that, so someone else needs to fill
in the
rest. :-)

(And "can't boot off tape" is meant in the general sense in that VMB
didn't
have the capability. Of course you could always write your own
bootstrap which
booted off tape if you were inclined.)

MicroVAX'es could boot of tape. And one could backup the system
disk to another tape when booted.

Booting was painfully slow. As I remember it 35 years later, then
it was like 30 minutes from 9 track tape and 2 hours from TK50.

Arne

And then we had CD drives and things were much better.

Also, place a bootable kit on non-system drives and boot off them to
backup system disk.-a Or use /IGNOREINTERLOCK (and duck when Steve throws something at you).

:-)

Ah, the joys!
I well remember building standalone backup kit on a data disk, booting
our 3 disk 8530 off that to backup to tape
Took hours!
--
Chris
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

On 9/27/2025 10:24 PM, Dave Froble wrote:

On 9/25/2025 2:40 PM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:

On 9/25/2025 9:59 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:

But as asked by Volker - standalone backup on a tape? As far as I
know, that
was generally not supported. Old VAXen in general can't boot off tape.
(MicroVAX being the first exception.) That's why the standalong
backup exists.
Because if you have a full backup of the system on tape, you need a
way to
recover that back to disk, in addition to a way of doing an initial
install on
disk. Standalone backup is what provides this. Done via floppies on the
VAX-11/780, DECtape II on the VAX-11/750 and /730. Exists on the FE
RL02 on
the VAX 86x0.

MicroVAX'es could boot of tape. And one could backup the system

disk to another tape when booted.

Booting was painfully slow. As I remember it 35 years later, then
it was like 30 minutes from 9 track tape and 2 hours from TK50.

And then we had CD drives and things were much better.

Yes. Way faster and more functionality!

Also, place a bootable kit on non-system drives and boot off them to
backup system disk.

That is also an option. I never did it back then though.

-a Or use /IGNOREINTERLOCK (and duck when Steve throws
something at you).

:-)

Arne

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

On 2025-09-24 15:40:07 +0000, retrev@csh.rit.edu said:

I'm running VMS 4.7 on a simh vaxen and I'm trying to create a
standalone backup to tape but I'm having some issues. I suspect it's a PEBCAK.

Try again, using the following two commands:
$ set default sys$update
$ @stabackit.com
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2