From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg5e9zlpz6eo

British microcomputers were among more than 100,000 foreign-made
parts contained in Russian missiles and drones used in Sunday's
deadly strikes on Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky has said.

The Ukrainian president called for further "effective" sanctions
after saying parts originating in allied countries including
Germany, Japan and the US have been identified in Russian weapons.

The Department for Business and Trade (DBT) said it had
recently undertaken efforts to crack down on UK firms whose
products have continued to make their way into Russia's
military supply chain.

"We take reports of goods from UK companies being found
in Russian weaponry incredibly seriously," a government
spokesperson said.

. . .

The article did not name the exact chip-maker(s).

PROBABLY it's ARM.

So, are Russian attack drones built around old
model rPIs ??? Do they use Linux ? Hmmm ...
RED Hat ??? :-)

The Pi-5 uses a USA, Broadcom, chip but vast
quantities of older chips/boards are out there.
ARM chips are almost ubiquitous in small devices.

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Mon, 6 Oct 2025 23:07:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:

So, are Russian attack drones built around old model rPIs ??? Do they
use Linux ? Hmmm ... RED Hat ???

https://ardupilot.org/ardupilot/

Supposedly the Ukraine uses ArduPilot in some drones. Despite the name it outgrew the Atmel processors long ago. Many of the integrated packages use
the Cortex M4.
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 07/10/2025 04:07, c186282 wrote:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg5e9zlpz6eo

British microcomputers were among more than 100,000 foreign-made
parts contained in Russian missiles and drones used in Sunday's
deadly strikes on Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky has said.

The Ukrainian president called for further "effective" sanctions
after saying parts originating in allied countries including
Germany, Japan and the US have been identified in Russian weapons.

The Department for Business and Trade (DBT) said it had
recently undertaken efforts to crack down on UK firms whose
products have continued to make their way into Russia's
military supply chain.

"We take reports of goods from UK companies being found
in Russian weaponry incredibly seriously," a government
spokesperson said.

. . .

-a The article did not name the exact chip-maker(s).

-a PROBABLY it's ARM.

-a So, are Russian attack drones built around old
-a model rPIs ??? Do they use Linux ? Hmmm ...
-a RED Hat ???-a :-)

-a The Pi-5 uses a USA, Broadcom, chip but vast
-a quantities of older chips/boards are out there.
-a ARM chips are almost ubiquitous in small devices.

It would be extremely surprising if drone makers were *not* using ARM
chips, probably RP2040 style one - in drones. Back around 2010 many
modellers were flying autonomous aircraft using Arduinos and public
domain code.

But that chip is available direct from the far east.

I don't know how one would stop them being bought by intermediaries and shipped off to Moscow.
--
"It was a lot more fun being 20 in the 70's that it is being 70 in the 20's" Joew Walsh

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 07/10/2025 07:25, rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 6 Oct 2025 23:07:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:

So, are Russian attack drones built around old model rPIs ??? Do they
use Linux ? Hmmm ... RED Hat ???

https://ardupilot.org/ardupilot/

Supposedly the Ukraine uses ArduPilot in some drones. Despite the name it outgrew the Atmel processors long ago. Many of the integrated packages use the Cortex M4.

Exactly. The code is all there as a starting point. Ukraine will have developed it considerably since then, but I doubt they will be posting
any updates to GitHub...
--
"It was a lot more fun being 20 in the 70's that it is being 70 in the 20's" Joew Walsh

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 10/7/25 02:25, rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 6 Oct 2025 23:07:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:

So, are Russian attack drones built around old model rPIs ??? Do they
use Linux ? Hmmm ... RED Hat ???

https://ardupilot.org/ardupilot/

Supposedly the Ukraine uses ArduPilot in some drones. Despite the name it outgrew the Atmel processors long ago. Many of the integrated packages use the Cortex M4.

The Ards are very good - within their reasonable
range. Did many projects/devices with the 2560s.
Lots of hand-soldered add-on shields.

But they're not modern FAST.

For a modern attack drone, ARM chips would
be the logical minimum.

Ards still have their place ... but don't
expect laptop-scale performance. They're
basically micro-controllers. A Pico would
be a better starting point for new projects.

As for Russia ... as said, the EXACT UK tech
being used was not included in the article.
The govt WILL look into it. However some
chips, like the ARMS, are almost ubiquitous
and can be salvaged/reprogrammed from a
zillion devices.


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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

c186282 wrote:

-a The Ards are very good - within their reasonable
-a range. Did many projects/devices with the 2560s.
-a Lots of hand-soldered add-on shields.

-a But they're not modern FAST.

I view Arduino as a waning technology, which makes it strange that
Qualcomm have bought then at this time ...

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

Andy Burns wrote:

c186282 wrote:

-a-a The Ards are very good - within their reasonable
-a-a range. Did many projects/devices with the 2560s.
-a-a Lots of hand-soldered add-on shields.

-a-a But they're not modern FAST.

I view Arduino as a waning technology, which makes it strange that
Qualcomm have bought then at this time ...

<https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2025/10/qualcomm-to-acquire-arduino-accelerating-developers--access-to-i>

Still it could be worse, at least it's not Broadcomm ...

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 08/10/2025 07:13, c186282 wrote:

As for Russia ... as said, the EXACT UK tech
-a being used was not included in the article.
-a The govt WILL look into it. However some
-a chips, like the ARMS, are almost ubiquitous
-a and can be salvaged/reprogrammed from a
-a zillion devices.

Of course. Its misinformation. Like 99.99% of all the brushless motors
made, are made in China.

The stuff that goes into drones is being sold off at rock bottom prices
on ali-express.

China outcompetes and undercuts the market in neodymium magnets and
lithium batteries.

I can buy RP2040 based devices made in china cheaper than I can buy them
in the UK.

All sanctions are leaky. When I was in a South Africa under sanction my
bosses brother filled a teddy bear with semiconductors and sent it as a christmas gift.

Amazing how much you can stuff in a big German teddy bear.

It's not too hard to stop a majority of - say - oil exports from Russia.
Its a damn sight harder to stop a tonne of RP2040 chips in the back of
a Toyota pickup wrapped in am Iranian carpet being driven up to Moscow.

The software in those drones will be made by 100% US based toolchains.
Russia has very little by way of native hi tech industry at all, and
less every day, thanks to Ukraine and Europe's ability to generate long
range precisions fires that can outfly jamming and still hit their targets.

It's a globalised world. Live with it. Russia thought they could go it
alone. They were wrong.
--
rCLA leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
rCLWe did this ourselves.rCY

rCo Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 08/10/2025 07:50, Andy Burns wrote:

c186282 wrote:

-a-a The Ards are very good - within their reasonable
-a-a range. Did many projects/devices with the 2560s.
-a-a Lots of hand-soldered add-on shields.

-a-a But they're not modern FAST.

I view Arduino as a waning technology, which makes it strange that
Qualcomm have bought then at this time ...

I tend to agree. I always found arduinos to be expensive, and now RP2040
et al are way cheaper, one wonders what ATMEL is worth any more. Perhaps
what Arduino is, is not so much the hardware, as the expertise in tool
chains, development platforms and the like.
--
rCLProgress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,rCY

rCo Ludwig von Mises

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Wed, 8 Oct 2025 02:13:56 -0400, c186282 wrote:

Ards still have their place ... but don't expect laptop-scale
performance. They're basically micro-controllers. A Pico would be a
better starting point for new projects.

Don't write off Arduinos quite yet; Qualcomm just announced the
acquisition of Arduino. It must have been it the works for a while since Arduino is shipping the UNO Q at the end of the month. It has a Qualcomm Dragonwing MPU and a ST STM32 MCU. The top side is physically compatible
with the UNO and the bottom side has additional connects.

https://www.arduino.cc/product-uno-q

The Dragonwing runs Debian rather than the Debian derived Raspberry Pi OS.
The initial offering has 2GB of RAM but it will be followed by a 4GB
version.

It's an interesting design. The RPi 5 is a Cortex-A76 and brings out the
GPIO lines almost as an afterthought, often with a Pico hung off the side
for real time processing. The Dragonwing is a quad-core Cortex-A53 with
the builtin ST with a Cortex-M33. The MCU has Arduino Core running on the Zephyr RTOS. That seems to be the way to go since Arm phased out their
RTOS.

There's a new IDE too, although the current Arduino IDE will work too.
That will make life a lot easier. STM parts are used in a lot of realtime systems but configuring the IDE is an arcane process as is their C++ SDK.


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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Wed, 8 Oct 2025 07:50:36 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

c186282 wrote:

-a The Ards are very good - within their reasonable range. Did many
-a projects/devices with the 2560s.
-a Lots of hand-soldered add-on shields.

-a But they're not modern FAST.

I view Arduino as a waning technology, which makes it strange that
Qualcomm have bought then at this time ...

The UNO Q doesn't look like waning tech to me.
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 08/10/2025 17:24, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 8 Oct 2025 07:50:36 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

c186282 wrote:

-a The Ards are very good - within their reasonable range. Did many
-a projects/devices with the 2560s.
-a Lots of hand-soldered add-on shields.

-a But they're not modern FAST.

I view Arduino as a waning technology, which makes it strange that
Qualcomm have bought then at this time ...

The UNO Q doesn't look like waning tech to me.

As I said, its probably more their development kits and
toolchains....its not hard to slap a microcontroller hardware board
together.

I've got boards with 4 chips, 2 buttons and a USB port for peanuts that
run Pico (RP2040) code.
--
rCLIdeas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith


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On Wed, 8 Oct 2025 09:46:01 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I tend to agree. I always found arduinos to be expensive, and now RP2040
et al are way cheaper, one wonders what ATMEL is worth any more. Perhaps
what Arduino is, is not so much the hardware, as the expertise in tool chains, development platforms and the like.

The UNO R4 uses the Renesas RA4MI, a Cortex-M4 processor. It isn't your grandfather's UNO. The new UNO Q definitely ain't.

The toolchains ans IDEs are a plus.

https://arduino-pico.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

There are times when the Pico C++ SDK is necessary but it isn't much fun. Either MicroPython or Arduino Core is more straight forward. From the docs
on the UNO Q they are also using Arduino Core/Zephyr RTOS for the STM32.
The ST C++ SDK is another one that's not much fun.

It's the classic trade off. If you don't need balls to the wall runtime performance faster development time wins.
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 08/10/2025 17:41, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 8 Oct 2025 09:46:01 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I tend to agree. I always found arduinos to be expensive, and now RP2040
et al are way cheaper, one wonders what ATMEL is worth any more. Perhaps
what Arduino is, is not so much the hardware, as the expertise in tool
chains, development platforms and the like.

The UNO R4 uses the Renesas RA4MI, a Cortex-M4 processor. It isn't your grandfather's UNO. The new UNO Q definitely ain't.

The toolchains ans IDEs are a plus.

https://arduino-pico.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

There are times when the Pico C++ SDK is necessary but it isn't much fun.

I've found once set up its not that bad,.

Either MicroPython or Arduino Core is more straight forward.

And slower and buggier and less flexible

From the docs

on the UNO Q they are also using Arduino Core/Zephyr RTOS for the STM32.

Now a good RTOS IS worth buying.

The ST C++ SDK is another one that's not much fun.

It's the classic trade off. If you don't need balls to the wall runtime performance faster development time wins.

Indeed.
--
rCLThe fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that
the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

- Bertrand Russell


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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 10/8/25 02:50, Andy Burns wrote:

c186282 wrote:

-a-a The Ards are very good - within their reasonable
-a-a range. Did many projects/devices with the 2560s.
-a-a Lots of hand-soldered add-on shields.

-a-a But they're not modern FAST.

I view Arduino as a waning technology, which makes it strange that
Qualcomm have bought then at this time ...

Ummm ... Ards are OK, even good, WITHIN THEIR
RANGE and are great for educational purposes.
Well supported.

As mentioned in these groups before, do not
be so quick to discount "old" tech. Various
problems are best dealt with using appropriate
tech. You don't need an i9 to monitor a
doorbell switch.

My 'better' laptop broke. So, I made a few
upgrade tweaks to one years older. It's
now perfectly acceptable. Hey, even has a
built-in DVD :-)

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 10/8/25 04:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/10/2025 07:50, Andy Burns wrote:

c186282 wrote:

-a-a The Ards are very good - within their reasonable
-a-a range. Did many projects/devices with the 2560s.
-a-a Lots of hand-soldered add-on shields.

-a-a But they're not modern FAST.

I view Arduino as a waning technology, which makes it strange that
Qualcomm have bought then at this time ...

I tend to agree. I always found arduinos to be expensive, and now RP2040
et al are way cheaper, one wonders what ATMEL is worth any more. Perhaps what Arduino is, is not so much the hardware, as the expertise in tool chains, development platforms-a and the like.

As said, they are "well supported" and not so complex
that newbies are locked out. I suspect they will be
around for many more years.

Some of the RPi's and friends are a lot faster, but
'faster' isn't always what you want for a given
task profile. You decidedly do NOT need an OS
for every little damned thing. Not sure the latest
gen even understands that concept.

Example - solar-powered field devices. Ard libs
support VERY low idle power consumption. The PIs
aren't as useful there. Built many solar dataloggers
around Ards. They'd only come to life on a timer
or sensor interrupt, then go into deep sleep again.
A mere 3 watt panel was usually adequate, 5 watt
for a few special locations. Very compact.

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On 10/8/25 12:24, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 8 Oct 2025 07:50:36 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

c186282 wrote:

-a The Ards are very good - within their reasonable range. Did many
-a projects/devices with the 2560s.
-a Lots of hand-soldered add-on shields.

-a But they're not modern FAST.

I view Arduino as a waning technology, which makes it strange that
Qualcomm have bought then at this time ...

The UNO Q doesn't look like waning tech to me.

Nope. Expect them to be around for another decade.

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c186282 wrote:

As mentioned in these groups before, do not
-a be so quick to discount "old" tech.

Newer stuff seems to have come along and eaten its lunch, if it's coming
back we'll see ...

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 09/10/2025 09:29, Andy Burns wrote:

c186282 wrote:

As mentioned in these groups before, do not
-a-a be so quick to discount "old" tech.

Newer stuff seems to have come along and eaten its lunch, if it's coming back we'll see ...

I find round wheels are still perfectly useable
--
rCLPolitics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.rCY
rCo Groucho Marx

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 10/9/25 04:29, Andy Burns wrote:

c186282 wrote:

As mentioned in these groups before, do not
-a-a be so quick to discount "old" tech.

Newer stuff seems to have come along and eaten its lunch, if it's coming back we'll see ...

A lot of the time it doesn't have to "come back" because
it's still here, heavily embedded, doing its thing like
it always did.

So, unless you and/or employer is just rolling in spare
cash, don't be in a hurry to buy the 'latest greatest'
until, if, it's NECESSARY. "Latest/greatest", "New And
Improved" - is a MARKETING SCAM.

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 10/9/25 08:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 09/10/2025 09:29, Andy Burns wrote:

c186282 wrote:

As mentioned in these groups before, do not
-a-a be so quick to discount "old" tech.

Newer stuff seems to have come along and eaten its lunch, if it's
coming back we'll see ...

I find round wheels are still perfectly useable

Yea, but so last-year unfashionable !


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c186282 wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

c186282 wrote:

As mentioned in these groups before, do not be so quick to
discount "old" tech.

Newer stuff seems to have come along and eaten its lunch, if it's
coming back we'll see ...

A lot of the time it doesn't have to "come back" because it's still
here, heavily embedded, doing its thing like it always did.

Fair enough, arduino hasn't gone away, just gone down in popularity.

So, unless you and/or employer is just rolling in spare cash, don't
be in a hurry to buy the 'latest greatest' until, if, it's
NECESSARY. "Latest/greatest", "New And Improved" - is a MARKETING
SCAM.

You mentioned the UNO Q?

Lots of products seem to embed various forms of Pi, I'm sure some do the
same with arduino, but I'd struggle to name one, vs several Pi ones I
can think of (Brennan B2/B3 jukebox, piKVM, HomeAssistantYellow) ...


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On Fri, 10 Oct 2025 08:41:26 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

You mentioned the UNO Q?

Lots of products seem to embed various forms of Pi, I'm sure some do the
same with arduino, but I'd struggle to name one, vs several Pi ones I
can think of (Brennan B2/B3 jukebox, piKVM, HomeAssistantYellow) ...

The Q is moving into that territory. Whether it is successful remains to
be seen. I don't know how much penetration it has but the Portenta X8 is
aimed at industrial applications.

https://store.arduino.cc/products/portenta-x8

There is a major difference between re447,60 and re4223,00. Nothing in the Portenta product line is cheap. The Q gives you a Cortex-A MPU capable of running Debian and a Cortex-M MCO all in one UNO form factor board and a
maker friendly price.



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On 10/10/25 03:41, Andy Burns wrote:

c186282 wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

c186282 wrote:

As mentioned in these groups before, do not be so quick to
discount "old" tech.

Newer stuff seems to have come along and eaten its lunch, if it's
coming back we'll see ...

A lot of the time it doesn't have to "come back" because it's still
here, heavily embedded, doing its thing like it always did.

Fair enough, arduino hasn't gone away, just gone down in popularity.

Didn't really mean that sort of "embedded" - just good
old boxes doing what they've always done. However Ards
are not going to go away anytime soon, they have a good
solid niche and loads of support/docs. Still good for a
lot of (esp low-power) projects and for students. Too
much of the "newer/better" chips/boards in that rough
category are very complex, operating systems even, and
burn power like mad.

I remember the PIC16(c/jw/f)84 chips fondly - and did
lots of useful things with them. Programming almost
entirely in ASM. Incredibly versatile if you read
the docs. When I think "embedded" that's what I tend
to think of first, my 'reference'. Came to love
the 12fxxx chips too - if you didn't need super speed
they were easier, cheaper, more versatile, than the
old 4xxx/7xxx logic chips. Need a Div5 chip ? :-)

So, unless you and/or employer is just rolling in spare cash, don't
be in a hurry to buy the 'latest greatest' until, if, it's
NECESSARY. "Latest/greatest", "New And Improved" - is a MARKETING
SCAM.

You mentioned the UNO Q?

Even the lowly UNO's have their niche - and will
for quite awhile. I have a couple in one of my
boxes ... contemplating use for an electronic
door lock employing a sort of "Morse" one-button
code to make the door open. Tap tap pause Tap
pause Tap ... easy with an Uno and you don't
need anything more complex.

Lots of products seem to embed various forms of Pi, I'm sure some do the same with arduino, but I'd struggle to name one, vs several Pi ones I
can think of (Brennan B2/B3 jukebox, piKVM, HomeAssistantYellow) ...

Ard offers (offered ?) a 'dual processor' model.
I think the hotter CPU would run a very basic
Linux. The two CPUs could, kind of awkwardly,
talk to each other.

But I'm not sure this is the way to go for Ards.
Different universes. If you need a PI then you
go with a PI. If you need really simple stuff
then you go with an Uno or 2560.

There is a corp that still sells "RuggedDurino",
all the I/O pins have voltage clamps. Kind of
intended for students who tend to fuck things
up they'd also be just great for more "industrial"
apps where voltage spikes might happen.

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On Sat, 11 Oct 2025 00:26:23 -0400, c186282 wrote:

Ard offers (offered ?) a 'dual processor' model.
I think the hotter CPU would run a very basic Linux. The two CPUs
could, kind of awkwardly, talk to each other.

https://www.arduino.cc/pro/hardware-product-portenta-x8/

It's pricey and aimed at industrial applications. The Q has a Cortex-A and
a Cortex-M and is much less expensive.

The Portenta H7 has a STM32H747

https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32h747-757.html

That's an odd duck, two cores but one is a Cortex-M7 and the other is a Cortex-M4. No Cortex-A MPU, only the two MCUs. It uses the Arm Mbed RTOS
that Arm dropped. The Q uses Zephyr for the MCU.

The old Atmel UNOs will be around for a long time but even the UNO R4 went
to a Cortex-M4.
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