From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Didn't we say so? Didn't we? Yes, we fucking did:

https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277

A nice quote:

"... the Wayland folks mostly seem to care about Automotive, Gnome,
maybe KDE - and alienating everyone else (e.g., people using just
an X11 window manager or something like GNUstep) in the process."


That's also why that piece-of-shit GTK+ does not allow date
formatting. Hence we are stuck with that "Yesterday," "Today,"
and "Last Week" bullcrap.
--
Gentoo: the only road to GNU/Linux perfection.
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2025-09-30, Lester Thorpe <lt@gnu.rocks> wrote:

Didn't we say so? Didn't we? Yes, we fucking did:

https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277

A nice quote:

"... the Wayland folks mostly seem to care about Automotive, Gnome,
maybe KDE - and alienating everyone else (e.g., people using just
an X11 window manager or something like GNUstep) in the process."

That's also why that piece-of-shit GTK+ does not allow date
formatting. Hence we are stuck with that "Yesterday," "Today,"
and "Last Week" bullcrap.

I've tried Wayland, because thought its "more secure, modern,
efficient, etc.", but turns out, everything was much worse, so they
might have better luck creating a new linux distro at least, like, "the
apple of linux", where they put things which works well with wayland,
because in my experience, it doesn't play nice with existing standard applications / systems. Felt like having a very secure car which cant
go anywhere. Is it more secure? absolutely yes.
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Fri, 3 Oct 2025 12:51:14 -0000 (UTC), Jimmy Logan wrote:

I've tried Wayland, because thought its "more secure, modern,
efficient, etc.", but turns out, everything was much worse, so they
might have better luck creating a new linux distro at least, like, "the
apple of linux", where they put things which works well with wayland,
because in my experience, it doesn't play nice with existing standard applications / systems.

Indeed. I sure do wish that these "progressive" folks would
fork and stop trying to impose their "modernism" on basic, fundamental GNU/Linux.

Wayland does break large numbers of critical programs but, if
you carefully read the GitHub blog, the Wayland people have a
standard response: Wayland works as designed; it is the applications
that are at fault.

This is nothing more than a tacit declaration that Wayland is not
a drop-in replacement for X11. Wayland, in spite of xwayland,
has intentionally excluded a LOT of X11 functionality.

But there is cause for much concern. GNU/Linux development has
become very monolithic with RedHat and freedesktop taking control
of many crucial packages. I suppose that we can say that RedHat/freedesktop has the rest of FOSS "by the balls." This is truly a detestable
situation.

More and more, I have FreeBSD on my mind.
--
Gentoo: the only road to GNU/Linux perfection.
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Le 30-09-2025, Lester Thorpe <lt@gnu.rocks> a |-crit-a:

Didn't we say so? Didn't we? Yes, we fucking did:

OK, you aren't alone in your head, but it's obvious in any message you
send.

https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277

A nice quote:

"... the Wayland folks mostly seem to care about Automotive, Gnome,
maybe KDE - and alienating everyone else (e.g., people using just
an X11 window manager or something like GNUstep) in the process."

The quote is so stupid you could have written it. They alienate no one.
They only care about what they do. If you want to use X11, it's fine
with them: just do it. The issue being nobody want to take care of it.
Except someone who has been banned by every distro because of his way of
not giving a shit for other needs.

So, a yous said many time: you have no right to complain, your only
right is either to contribute or to shut your fucking mouth.

That's also why that piece-of-shit GTK+ does not allow date
formatting. Hence we are stuck with that "Yesterday," "Today,"
and "Last Week" bullcrap.

There is no relation between your inability to manage your computer and
the way Wayland guys manage their work.
--
Si vous avez du temps |a perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Le 03-10-2025, Jimmy Logan <punk.book8853@fastmail.com> a |-crit-a:

On 2025-09-30, Lester Thorpe <lt@gnu.rocks> wrote:

Didn't we say so? Didn't we? Yes, we fucking did:

https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277

A nice quote:

"... the Wayland folks mostly seem to care about Automotive, Gnome,
maybe KDE - and alienating everyone else (e.g., people using just
an X11 window manager or something like GNUstep) in the process."


That's also why that piece-of-shit GTK+ does not allow date
formatting. Hence we are stuck with that "Yesterday," "Today,"
and "Last Week" bullcrap.

I've tried Wayland, because thought its "more secure, modern,
efficient, etc.", but turns out, everything was much worse,

Either you tried it a long time ago, or you are using only what Wayland
doesn't manage.

so they
might have better luck creating a new linux distro at least,

OK, you have no clue about what Wayland is. So how can you be so sure
all of your problems came from Wayland? My guess: your issues come from
you.
--
Si vous avez du temps |a perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Le 03-10-2025, Lester Thorpe <lt@gnu.rocks> a |-crit-a:

On Fri, 3 Oct 2025 12:51:14 -0000 (UTC), Jimmy Logan wrote:

I've tried Wayland, because thought its "more secure, modern,
efficient, etc.", but turns out, everything was much worse, so they

Was that a long time ago? Because things improved fast. If it was
something like three or four years ago, I would agree a lot of issues
remained. But by now, only very special cases for very few people aren't
taken care of.

might have better luck creating a new linux distro at least,

Nonsense. The purpose of Wayland isn't the purpose of a distro.

like, "the
apple of linux", where they put things which works well with wayland,
because in my experience, it doesn't play nice with existing standard
applications / systems.

Indeed. I sure do wish that these "progressive" folks would
fork and stop trying to impose their "modernism" on basic, fundamental GNU/Linux.

They don't impose their modernism. They only take care of what's
important for them. It's your fault if nobody takes care of X11 anymore:
you pretend you are the best programmer ever and you do nothing to
evolve it. It's abandoned and the only guy who tried to improve it have
been banned everywhere because he doesn't care about the other needs.

Wayland does break large numbers of critical programs but,

So, just use X11 and stop complaining.

if
you carefully read the GitHub blog, the Wayland people have a
standard response: Wayland works as designed; it is the applications
that are at fault.

Yes. You should be able to understand that.

This is nothing more than a tacit declaration that Wayland is not
a drop-in replacement for X11.

Of course it's not. Nobody claimed otherwise. If you want to sick to
X11, just stay with it. You can even improve it as nobody want to do it,
you won't have competition.

Wayland, in spite of xwayland,
has intentionally excluded a LOT of X11 functionality.

Yes. You are the moron criticizing the security brought by Linux because
virus can't run anymore and every program running like viruses must be rewritten.

But there is cause for much concern. GNU/Linux development has
become very monolithic with RedHat and freedesktop taking control
of many crucial packages. I suppose that we can say that RedHat/freedesktop has the rest of FOSS "by the balls." This is truly a detestable
situation.

No. The real concern is: you want to still use X11 but you refuse to do anything about it to stay a viable solution.
--
Si vous avez du temps |a perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 03 Oct 2025 20:59:55 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

"... the Wayland folks mostly seem to care about Automotive, Gnome,
maybe KDE - and alienating everyone else (e.g., people using just
an X11 window manager or something like GNUstep) in the process."

The quote is so stupid you could have written it. They alienate no one.
They only care about what they do. If you want to use X11, it's fine
with them: just do it.

*You* are the one that is stupid.

On GNU/Linux, the graphical subsystem is just as important as
the kernel itself, and anyone who wants to replace X11 had better
be damned sure that the replacement is complete and does not just
casually throw away 30 fucking years of application development.

The mantra of the kernel has always been "don't break user space"
and the same should apply to the graphical subsystem.

Yet that is exactly what Wayland does. It breaks user space and
it throws away 30 fucking years of application development.

So, both you and Wayland can go to fucking hell.

You are guilty of destroying GNU/Linux and you will be severely
punished.
--
Gentoo: the only road to GNU/Linux perfection.
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 04 Oct 2025 09:27:34 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

It's your fault if nobody takes care of X11 anymore:

You can even improve it as nobody want to do it,

Lies and bullshit. X11 is being deliberately suppressed by
RedHat et.al. because it does not fit with their profit-making
agenda:

'... toxic elements within Xorg projects, moles from BigTech,
are boycotting any substantial work on Xorg, in order to destroy
the project, to eliminate competition of their own products.
Classic "embrace, extend, extinguish" tactics.'

https://x11libre.net/#about

Ignorant lackeys like you are aiding in the destruction.

I hope that you choke on your own bullshit.

On Gentoo, however, I regularly see minor updates to the various
Xorg components and it will certainly persist for a long time.

So you can your Wayland and hang yourself with it.
--
Gentoo: the only road to GNU/Linux perfection.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Le 04-10-2025, Lester Thorpe <lt@gnu.rocks> a |-crit-a:

On 03 Oct 2025 20:59:55 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

"... the Wayland folks mostly seem to care about Automotive, Gnome,
maybe KDE - and alienating everyone else (e.g., people using just
an X11 window manager or something like GNUstep) in the process."

The quote is so stupid you could have written it. They alienate no one.
They only care about what they do. If you want to use X11, it's fine
with them: just do it.

*You* are the one that is stupid.

As always: you repeat yourself, you tell something I already know and
you can't improve in your insults.

On GNU/Linux, the graphical subsystem is just as important as
the kernel itself, and anyone who wants to replace X11 had better
be damned sure that the replacement is complete and does not just
casually throw away 30 fucking years of application development.

Let's resume what you dont understand:
- The people who want to improve X11 realize it was too broken and
considered it was faster to start from scratch with wayland.
- Nobody want to replace X11, everyone wanted to improve things switch
to waylang, nobody want to take care of X11 anymore, so if you want to
take the responsibility, you are welcome.
- Nobody want you to switch to wayland, it's just that nobody want to
take care of X11 anymore.
- Applications running on X11 still run fine on X11. It's only when you
want to switch to wayland that issues happen.
- X11 and wayland are open source, so you have no right to complain, you
have the right to take the fingers out of your big fat ass to manage
to still use and improve X11.
- X11 is virtually abandoned, if you don't have the same computer than
the only one left guy who take care of it, it will become more and
more broken.
- You say that systemd is evil because it stop everything else to exist
and the alternatives are good. In the same time, you refuse every
alternative to X11 to exist. Can't you see how you contradict yourself
on this part?

The mantra of the kernel has always been "don't break user space"
and the same should apply to the graphical subsystem.

Yep. As long as you use X11, it will work. The application which were
running fine with X11 are still running fine with X11. The changes done
in wayland are relevant only if you switch to wayland. But you have no obligation to.

Yet that is exactly what Wayland does. It breaks user space and
it throws away 30 fucking years of application development.

No. Wayland is just an alternative to X11. If you stay with X11, wayland
won't change anything on your computer.

So, both you and Wayland can go to fucking hell.

Yes. But you are the one unable to use your computer. Oh, great master of
your own delusion.

You are guilty of destroying GNU/Linux and you will be severely
punished.

I destroy nothing. I'm adapting and I'm helping people to adapte.
Wayland is evolving without me. It's evolving against you because you
are at the same time too stupid to use it and you are too stupid to keep
using X11.

So first start to learn how to use your own computer, then you'll be
able to speak without being considered a limited Mac user.
--
Si vous avez du temps |a perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 04 Oct 2025 19:57:39 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

- The people who want to improve X11 realize it was too broken and
considered it was faster to start from scratch with wayland.

What happened to that, what was it, rCLXLibrerCY? WasnrCOt some White Knight supposed to ride forth and rescue X11 from obsolescence, or something?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 04 Oct 2025 19:57:39 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

Nobody want you to switch to wayland, it's just that nobody want to
take care of X11 anymore.

Wrong. IBM/RedHat/freedesktop are in the process of forcing
Wayland on every distro, just like they did with systemd.

They will, once again, limit user choice but also throw away
over 30 years of application development.

You are also wrong on the second point. X11 is a MATURE
software system, which means that it does not require any
further development but only simple maintenance.

Wayland, in contrast, has been in development for over
20 years and it is still riddled with problems.

So first start to learn how to use your own computer, then you'll be
able to speak without being considered a limited Mac user.

I have built my own OS from scratch and I can easily recognize
the threat that both Wayland and systemd bring.

YOU, however, are just another distro lackey that will
take, like a servile dog, whatever the corporate overlords
throw at you.
--
Gentoo: the only road to GNU/Linux perfection.
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Le 04-10-2025, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a |-crit-a:

On 04 Oct 2025 19:57:39 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

- The people who want to improve X11 realize it was too broken and
considered it was faster to start from scratch with wayland.

What happened to that, what was it, rCLXLibrerCY? WasnrCOt some White Knight supposed to ride forth and rescue X11 from obsolescence, or something?

He fixed it for his own computer. And contributed sending changes he
made to everyone else. So he broke everything on users computers and
have been banned by every distros which were expected to solve his mess.
So he forked and if others want to use his code they are welcome.
--
Si vous avez du temps |a perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Le 05-10-2025, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a |-crit-a:

On 04 Oct 2025 19:57:39 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:

Nobody want you to switch to wayland, it's just that nobody want to
take care of X11 anymore.

Wrong. IBM/RedHat/freedesktop are in the process of forcing
Wayland on every distro, just like they did with systemd.

Wrong. The distro chose which WM/DE they provide. The DE/WM chose if
they use X11 or Wayland or both. Keep X11 alive and working and it will
live well along with Wayland.

The distro can provide X11 and Wayland support at the same time without any issue as long as X11 is maintained. With systemd it's different because
it's very difficult to provide the choice between many init systems.

They will, once again, limit user choice but also throw away
over 30 years of application development.

No, you will limit user choices by refusing to maintain X11. Now do it
or shut up.

You are also wrong on the second point. X11 is a MATURE
software system, which means that it does not require any
further development but only simple maintenance.

So, just do it.

And ask yourself why you praised the last guy who is changing things in
X11 if it's useless. Every changes done by the last X11 maintainer has
brought more issues than improvements.

Wayland, in contrast, has been in development for over
20 years and it is still riddled with problems.

Yes. It's improving.

So first start to learn how to use your own computer, then you'll be
able to speak without being considered a limited Mac user.

I have built my own OS from scratch

You keep repeating that but if you can fool yourself, you can't fool me.

and I can easily recognize the threat that both Wayland and systemd
bring.

I can see that, too. The day you'll have modern stuff on your computer,
it will work and you won't be able to break it. It's a major threat
because you won't be able to manage to fool yourself believing you could
fix something.
--
Si vous avez du temps |a perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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