From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Le 30-06-2025, Not Necessary <not@necessary.invalid> a écrit :

On 28/06/25 10:32 pm, Farley Flud wrote:

Are you sick of these distro bastards like Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, etc.,
etc., etc., limiting your choices and forcing things like systemd and
Wayland down your throat?

I don't use any distro so I am totally immune to that scourge.

But one GNU/Linux distro, namely Artix, which eschews the abominable
systemd, is now offering Xlibre, the new fork of X11, as an alternative
to the equally abominable Wayland.

Read about it here:

https://linux.slashdot.org/story/25/06/28/054245/x11-fork-xlibre-released-for-testing-on-systemd-free-artix-linux

Both systemd and Wayland are unnecessary, useless junk that are being
foisted upon GNU/Linux users by the grubbing major distros (and they
are grubbing).

If you can't roll your own with Gentoo/LFS, then at least liberate
yourself with Artix.

You roll your own init scripts, write every logical statement and
assertion customized for your hardware:

No. He pretends he does it, it's not the same.

*great*! Most people won't be able to do that anyways!

Neither can he.
--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Le 01-07-2025, Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> a écrit :

The clearly stated issue, for humans anyway, is user control versus
foreign (i.e. systemd) control.

Thanks for that sentence who manages at the same time, to proves you
don't know what you speak about and to bring a good thing about systemd.

With sysv init scripts, you have a script to launch a daemon. And that's
all (well you can have a config file to go along with it, but it's the
same). Which is a pain in the ass because when the author improves a
tool, some newer options can be added. And so the distro takes the
script with the new options to include it and release it to the end
users. And so, when you had overridden an option, be it in the SHELL
script or in the config file, it's removed and you have to put it again.

When, with systemd, you have different directories which allow you to
deploy the configurations at different places. And that's great, because
you can put your modifications in another place than the default
provided by your distro. So, you have a better control, because you can override the default without any issue during updates. So there is no
more war between the defaults provided by the author, the defaults
provided by the distro and your choices. Which means, unlike your claim,
a better control, thanks to systemd.
--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Le 30-06-2025, CtrlAltDel <Altie@BHam.com> a écrit :

On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 17:02:09 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

If you can't roll your own with Gentoo/LFS, then at least liberate
yourself with Artix.

Is it developed by the same people who created and maintain Linux Mint?

No.

If not, what's the point of even trying it?

You see, you never tried anything else than Mint and your opinion is
based on nothing.
--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:

Le 30-06-2025, CtrlAltDel <Altie@BHam.com> a écrit :

On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 17:02:09 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

If you can't roll your own with Gentoo/LFS, then at least liberate
yourself with Artix.

Is it developed by the same people who created and maintain Linux Mint?

No.

If not, what's the point of even trying it?

You see, you never tried anything else than Mint and your opinion is
based on nothing.

The problem I had updating Mint to a newer release goes to show why
it's a lot more mediocre a distro than the users proclaim, I had too
much baggage for an in-place upgrade, and then booting the installer
to start fresh didn't even work, clearly it saw I had a still-
supported version installed and just refused to load the installer to
overwrite it. It's a beginner OS, not for real enthusiasts of Linux.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 04 Jul 2025 19:58:51 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

Le 01-07-2025, Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> a écrit :

The clearly stated issue, for humans anyway, is user control versus
foreign (i.e. systemd) control.

With sysv init scripts ...

When, with systemd ...

You assume, wrongly as usual, that sysv and systemd are the only
two boot scripts available.

You, of course, are a total idiot. GNU/Linux has a plethora of
init systems available and any user is also free to write his
own init system.

For example, I base my init scripts on LFS, which I have modified:

<https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/chapter09/bootscripts.html>


You, of course, being a lackey idiot, could never do this. Hence
you are totally dependent on systemd.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

Without a distro and systemd you could only use Micro$soft Winblows
and you know it.

What a loser!
--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Fri, 04 Jul 2025 16:08:07 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in <m0dg6k15kue26sc86a20s42lifv6nj9mok@4ax.com>:

Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:

Le 30-06-2025, CtrlAltDel <Altie@BHam.com> a écrit :

On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 17:02:09 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

If you can't roll your own with Gentoo/LFS, then at least liberate
yourself with Artix.

Is it developed by the same people who created and maintain Linux
Mint?

No.

If not, what's the point of even trying it?

You see, you never tried anything else than Mint and your opinion is
based on nothing.

The problem I had updating Mint to a newer release goes to show why it's
a lot more mediocre a distro than the users proclaim, I had too much
baggage for an in-place upgrade, and then booting the installer to start fresh didn't even work, clearly it saw I had a still- supported version installed and just refused to load the installer to overwrite it. It's
a beginner OS, not for real enthusiasts of Linux.

I disagree, for the reasons already stated.

I will say, I did in-place upgrades to Mint 22.1 on the wife's
workstation and my laptop before I risked it on my battlestation.
It did require some .deb surgery, but that's not unlike what I'd
go through with Fedora, where I would have to do .rpm surgery. Comes
with the territory -- and BTW, doing ".deb surgery" is _not_
"beginner" material.
--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090Ti 24G
OS: Linux 6.15.4 D: Mint 22.1 DE: Xfce 4.18 Mem: 258G
"Have an adequate day."
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Fri, 04 Jul 2025 21:23:06 +0000, Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> wrote in <pan$2a253$985ff4a8$6e32e8a9$9bbd9e42@linux.rocks>:

On 04 Jul 2025 19:58:51 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

Le 01-07-2025, Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> a écrit :

The clearly stated issue, for humans anyway, is user control versus
foreign (i.e. systemd) control.

With sysv init scripts ...

When, with systemd ...

You assume, wrongly as usual, that sysv and systemd are the only two
boot scripts available.

You, of course, are a total idiot. GNU/Linux has a plethora of init
systems available and any user is also free to write his own init
system.

For example, I base my init scripts on LFS, which I have modified:

<https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/chapter09/

bootscripts.html>

You, of course, being a lackey idiot, could never do this. Hence you
are totally dependent on systemd.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

Without a distro and systemd you could only use Micro$soft Winblows and
you know it.

What a loser!

So let's see the script you run as process id 1.

I'm curious how it manages cgroups, reaps orphaned children, etc.
--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090Ti 24G
OS: Linux 6.15.4 D: Mint 22.1 DE: Xfce 4.18 Mem: 258G
""No good deed goes unpunished" - Clare Booth Luce"
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 4 Jul 2025 22:51:10 GMT, vallor wrote:

So let's see the script you run as process id 1.

No script is necessary. The kernel calls the "init" program
after boot (unless overridden on the kernel command line).

The "init" program runs as PID 1 and invokes the scripts
in "/etc/inittab," which in my case points to my custom scripts.

[~]# ps ax
PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND
1 ? Ss 0:01 init [3]

I'm curious how it manages cgroups, reaps orphaned children, etc.

Ha, ha, ha, ha! There ain't no stinkin' cgroups on my machines.

But you wouldn't know that because you are incapable of configuring
the kernel beyond the default options.
--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Fri, 04 Jul 2025 23:03:03 +0000, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote in <pan$5e7ba$db07c952$6261cc61$c514da9d@linux.rocks>:

On 4 Jul 2025 22:51:10 GMT, vallor wrote:

So let's see the script you run as process id 1.

No script is necessary. The kernel calls the "init" program after boot (unless overridden on the kernel command line).

The "init" program runs as PID 1 and invokes the scripts in
"/etc/inittab," which in my case points to my custom scripts.

[~]# ps ax
PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND
1 ? Ss 0:01 init [3]

IAW, you're running sysv init? I thought you wrote your own init?

I'm curious how it manages cgroups, reaps orphaned children, etc.

Ha, ha, ha, ha! There ain't no stinkin' cgroups on my machines.

Then they're crippled -- you aren't using the full capabilities
of Linux.

I'll bet you have Mandatory Access Control modules switched off, too.

Dumbass.
--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090Ti 24G
OS: Linux 6.15.4 D: Mint 22.1 DE: Xfce 4.18 Mem: 258G
"NETWORK: What fishermen do when not fishing."
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:

The problem I had updating Mint to a newer release goes to show why it's
a lot more mediocre a distro than the users proclaim, I had too much
baggage for an in-place upgrade, and then booting the installer to start
fresh didn't even work, clearly it saw I had a still- supported version
installed and just refused to load the installer to overwrite it. It's
a beginner OS, not for real enthusiasts of Linux.

I disagree, for the reasons already stated.

I will say, I did in-place upgrades to Mint 22.1 on the wife's
workstation and my laptop before I risked it on my battlestation.
It did require some .deb surgery, but that's not unlike what I'd
go through with Fedora, where I would have to do .rpm surgery. Comes
with the territory -- and BTW, doing ".deb surgery" is _not_
"beginner" material.

i just went to a new distro until i found one that met what i would
need.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Le 28-06-2025, Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> a écrit :

On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 17:02:09 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

Read about it here:

https://linux.slashdot.org/story/25/06/28/054245/x11-fork-xlibre-released-for-testing-on-systemd-free-artix-linux

My fave quote from the, still nascent, comments:

As you are answering to yourself, maybe you wrote the comment yourself.

'There appear to be a lot of Wayland evangelists out there that would like
to detain you into a Wayland-re-education camp, where everyone is forced
to worship Wayland every day. That camp is right beside the "systemd" and
the "pulseaudio" camp, though the inmates of the latter have recently been freed by a guerilla group named "pipewire".'

I'm not surprised you like the comment you could have written. Nobody
want to force Wayland everywhere, they are the obsolescence aficionado
like you who want to stop things improving to stay well stuck in the
past. Nobody cares if you want to use X11 with system V and alsa. They
care so little about your expectations they don't want to help you and
so you feel alone believing they want to force you. But no, they just
don't care about you. If you want to stay in the past, you have to
manage everything by yourself, that's all.
--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 4 Jul 2025 23:10:32 GMT, vallor wrote:

IAW, you're running sysv init? I thought you wrote your own init?

I am using the term "init" as a shorthand for "initialization."

After the kernel boots, a software environment of some kind must/should
be established and this is the purpose of the init (i.e. initialization) scripts.

Unix/Linux always was and still is a multi-user OS and the standard
init scripts don't make any sense for a standalone, single-user workstation.
It is more appropriate for single-user machine to have custom init scripts.

Ha, ha, ha, ha! There ain't no stinkin' cgroups on my machines.

Then they're crippled -- you aren't using the full capabilities
of Linux.

The "full capabilities" to which you refer are quite unnecessary
on my system and thus the useless cgroups is omitted.

The kernel can be CONFIGURED. If cgroups were critical then it would
not be an option.

I'll bet you have Mandatory Access Control modules switched off, too.

Certainly! There is absolutely NO optional security feature of any kind
on my systems. None. Zip. Nada.

I don't even update the microcode on my processors lest Intel should
inject some inane security mitigation.

The resources of a PC should be directed to performance and not security.

Dumbass.

Only from the perspective of a super-dumbass.
--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 05 Jul 2025 09:33:44 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

'There appear to be a lot of Wayland evangelists out there that would like >> to detain you into a Wayland-re-education camp, where everyone is forced
to worship Wayland every day.

I'm not surprised you like the comment you could have written. Nobody
want to force Wayland everywhere, they are the obsolescence aficionado
like you who want to stop things improving to stay well stuck in the
past. Nobody cares if you want to use X11 with system V and alsa. They
care so little about your expectations they don't want to help you and
so you feel alone believing they want to force you. But no, they just
don't care about you. If you want to stay in the past, you have to
manage everything by yourself, that's all.

Like most other GNU/Linux users, you have been BRAINWASHED.

Your distro overlords will tell you that Wayland is the only future
and you will believe it. You will believe it because you believe
that the distro maintainers are the gods that know all things.

But _I_ know the truth.

The distro maintainers are all a pack of lazy fucks. They don't
want to invest the time and effort (and, in the case of RedHat,
money) to support a wide array of user choices. Instead, to make
it a lot easier for them, they support only Wayland and then
take active steps to promote the decay of X11. They did exactly
the same with systemd. The distro maintainers are all as corrupt
as Micro$oft.

But they have BRAINWASHED you.

You believe their bullshit and you will defend their actions.
You are their little dog.

Gentoo and LFS do offer choice and hopefully they always will.

But Gentoo/LFS are for superior users, and that's not you.

Now go fetch, doggie. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2