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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcafzHL8iBQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcafzHL8iBQ
Felix <none@nowhere.com> wrote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcafzHL8iBQ
My views exactly.
I've been using Microsoft since it was DoS,
Even met Bill Gates in Sydney's Center Point Tower flogging his
Windows 1 (?) at that time he was a nice easy to get on with bloke.
I reckon he still is, too many Rod Speed types demonizing him
He is a bit "Geeky" but a nice man who means well,
He started walking away from Windows after Win3.11
In 1998, Gates appointed Steve Ballmer aspresident but stayed on as "CEO and chairman".
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Felix <none@nowhere.com> wrote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcafzHL8iBQ
My views exactly.
More fool you and you are so stupid that you keep using Win anyway
I've been using Microsoft since it was DoS,
It was never DOS
Even met Bill Gates in Sydney's Center Point Tower flogging his
Windows 1 (?) at that time he was a nice easy to get on with bloke.
I reckon he still is, too many Rod Speed types demonizing him
I never ever done anything of the sort and run Win myself
He is a bit "Geeky" but a nice man who means well,
He started walking away from Windows after Win3.11
Bullshit he did
In 1998, Gates appointed Steve Ballmer aspresident but stayed on as "CEO >> and chairman".
Different matter entirely
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Felix <none@nowhere.com> wrote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcafzHL8iBQ
My views exactly.
More fool you and you are so stupid that you keep using Win anyway
I've been using Microsoft since it was DoS, >It was never DOS
Even met Bill Gates in Sydney's Center Point Tower flogging his
Windows 1 (?) at that time he was a nice easy to get on with bloke.
I reckon he still is, too many Rod Speed types demonizing him
I never ever done anything of the sort and run Win myself
He is a bit "Geeky" but a nice man who means well,
He started walking away from Windows after Win3.11
Bullshit he did
In 1998, Gates appointed Steve Ballmer aspresident but stayed on as
"CEO and chairman".
Different matter entirely
Rod Speed wrote:
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Felix <none@nowhere.com> wrote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcafzHL8iBQ
My views exactly.
More fool you and you are so stupid that you keep using Win anyway
I've been using Microsoft since it was DoS, >It was never DOS
M$ MS-DOS
Even met Bill Gates in Sydney's Center Point Tower flogging his
Windows 1 (?) at that time he was a nice easy to get on with bloke.
I reckon he still is, too many Rod Speed types demonizing him
I never ever done anything of the sort and run Win myself
He is a bit "Geeky" but a nice man who means well,
He started walking away from Windows after Win3.11
Bullshit he did
In 1998, Gates appointed Steve Ballmer aspresident but stayed on as
"CEO and chairman".
Different matter entirely
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wroteOr even notice that ChromeOS doesnt do usenet
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Felix <none@nowhere.com> wroteMore fool you and you are so stupid that you keep using Win anyway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcafzHL8iBQMy views exactly.
Nof then he wasnt, the games machines came much laterBill Gates was involved with other businessesI've been using Microsoft since it was DoS,It was never DOS
Even met Bill Gates in Sydney's Center Point Tower flogging hisI never ever done anything of the sort and run Win myself
Windows 1 (?) at that time he was a nice easy to get on with bloke.
I reckon he still is, too many Rod Speed types demonizing him
He is a bit "Geeky" but a nice man who means well,Bullshit he did
He started walking away from Windows after Win3.11
GatesrCO post-1998 career has been marked by extensive diversification,Pity that was LONG after Win
with significant roles in technology,Yes
finance, agriculture, hospitality,Wrong with all those
and global philanthropy.Yes
Utterly mangled all over again most obviously with Musk and Applethe CEO leads the business, while the chairman leads the board.In 1998, Gates appointed Steve Ballmer aspresident but stayed on as >>> "CEO and chairman".Different matter entirely
This separation is designed to provide checks andbalances within the > organization,More mindless bullshit, most obviously with Musk and Apple
ensuring that no single individual has uncheckedMore mindless bullshit, most obviously with Musk and Apple
authority over both operations and governance
On Fri, 11 Jul 2025 12:35:50 +1000, Felix <none@nowhere.com> wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:Rod Speed don't know that, just he has to be negative and nasty
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wroteM$ MS-DOS
Felix <none@nowhere.com> wroteMore fool you and you are so stupid that you keep using Win anyway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcafzHL8iBQMy views exactly.
I've been using Microsoft since it was DoS, >It was never DOS
He's brainless, always used Google to get answers doubt if he ever
worked with Computers
He lives in a farming district Griffith, NSW
Even met Bill Gates in Sydney's Center Point Tower flogging hisI never ever done anything of the sort and run Win myself
Windows 1 (?) at that time he was a nice easy to get on with bloke.
I reckon he still is, too many Rod Speed types demonizing him
He is a bit "Geeky" but a nice man who means well,Bullshit he did
He started walking away from Windows after Win3.11
In 1998, Gates appointed Steve Ballmer aspresident but stayed on asDifferent matter entirely
"CEO and chairman".
Felix <none@nowhere.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
I've been using Microsoft since it was DoS, >
It was never DOS
M$ MS-DOS
Rod Speed don't know that,
always used Google to get answers
doubt if he ever worked with Computers
He lives in a farming district Griffith, NSW
Petzl wrote:
Felix <none@nowhere.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
I've been using Microsoft since it was DoS, >
It was never DOS
M$ MS-DOS
Rod Speed don't know that, just he has to be negative and nasty
He's brainless, always used Google to get answers doubt if he ever
worked with Computers
He lives in a farming district Griffith, NSW
in fact DR DOS was very popular at the time,
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS installed,
and that was the end of DR DOS.
I think there was something called Calldera DOS too maybe?
too lazy to google for it. :)--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
And did all the computers in the CSIRO
division in Griffith LONG before you even
knew what a fucking computer was and
LONG before the PC was even invented.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
And did all the computers in the CSIRO
division in Griffith LONG before you even
knew what a fucking computer was and
LONG before the PC was even invented.
CSIRO were water into irrigation
you digging ditches I suppose?
That said were using UNIX PC's at ICI Sydney 1985
mainly for checking World Alcohol supplies tank levels,used for plastics and when to order theirs or sell ours.
Before that 1965 were using punched card, UNIVAC computersto track
shipping and rail containers of our products.
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Felix <none@nowhere.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
I've been using Microsoft since it was DoS, >
It was never DOS
That was just my brain fart, I thought he meanf
windows and didnt bother to proofread that
M$ MS-DOS
Rod Speed don't know that,
Corse I do and even you should be able to use groups
google to see I have said that countless times
always used Google to get answers
More of your mindless bullshit given that
I have been doing that since long before
google was even invented, fuckwit
doubt if he evera worked with Computers
Been doing that since LONG before you
ever did, and LONG before the PC was even
invented and have a thesis to prove it that
even you should be able to check, ANU
He lives in a farming district Griffith, NSW
And did all the computers in the CSIRO
division in Griffith LONG before you even
knew what a fucking computer was and
LONG before the PC was even invented.
And we did a multiuse OS for the PDP9 using the same approach
as TSX for the PDP11 much later which was my idea when all you
could manage was the egg shopping run
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
And did all the computers in the CSIRO
division in Griffith LONG before you even
knew what a fucking computer was and
LONG before the PC was even invented.
CSIRO were water into irrigation
And had a PDP9 from 1965 and csironet which
was installed in 1967 which allowed the use of
the CDC 3600 and 7600 in canberra, mostly
for the stats for the scientic research and I
did all of that and much more later than that
you digging ditches I suppose?
CSIRO-a never dug any ditches, the NSW Water Commission did that
That said-a were using UNIX PC's at ICI Sydney 1985
A full 20 fucking years after I got involved in computers
and programmed a PDP8S, the serial one, to do fluorescent
decay to sub nanosecond levels and analysed the data on
the IBM 360/50 which I personally ran in the evenings myself
And I also sold everything from DEC minis to Commodore VIC20s and
C64s and PCs and clones and was the only one to do that in Griffith initially
mainly for checking World Alcohol supplies tank levels,used for
plastics and when to order theirs or sell ours.
Before that 1965 were using punched card, UNIVAC computersto track
shipping and rail containers of our products.
And you never had anything to do with the hardware or software
And we did a multiuse OS for the PDP9 using the same approach
as TSX for the PDP11 much later which was my idea when all you
could manage was the egg shopping run
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
And did all the computers in the CSIRO
division in Griffith LONG before you even
knew what a fucking computer was and
LONG before the PC was even invented.
CSIRO were water into irrigation
And had a PDP9 from 1965 and csironet which
was installed in 1967 which allowed the use of
the CDC 3600 and 7600 in canberra, mostly
for the stats for the scientic research and I
did all of that and much more later than that
The 7600 didn't arrive until late 1972, commissioned early 1973.
DCR was one hell of a flaky place, couldn't decide whetherit was a government service bureau or a research site.
Undocumented changes to the operating system made on the fly, the governmentdepartments forced to use it, hated it.
you digging ditches I suppose?
CSIRO never dug any ditches, the NSW Water Commission did that
That said were using UNIX PC's at ICI Sydney 1985
A full 20 fucking years after I got involved in computers
and programmed a PDP8S, the serial one, to do fluorescent
decay to sub nanosecond levels and analysed the data on
the IBM 360/50 which I personally ran in the evenings myself
And I also sold everything from DEC minis to Commodore VIC20s and
C64s and PCs and clones and was the only one to do that in Griffith
initially
Did you work at a computer shop in Fyshwick?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2mainly for checking World Alcohol supplies tank levels,
used for plastics and when to order theirs or sell ours.
Before that 1965 were using punched card, UNIVAC computers to track
shipping and rail containers of our products.
And you never had anything to do with the hardware or software
And we did a multiuse OS for the PDP9 using the same approach
as TSX for the PDP11 much later which was my idea when all you
could manage was the egg shopping run
Felix <none@nowhere.com> wrote
Petzl wrote:
Felix <none@nowhere.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
I've been using Microsoft since it was DoS, >
It was never DOS
M$ MS-DOS
Rod Speed don't know that, just he has to be negative and nasty
He's brainless, always used Google to get answers doubt if he ever
worked with Computers
He lives in a farming district Griffith, NSW
in fact DR DOS was very popular at the time,
Yes
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS installed,
In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it to be
installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a hard drive.
and that was the end of DR DOS.
Because the IBM completely dominated the market very quickly
I think there was something called Calldera DOS too maybe?
That was actually a derivative of DR DOS
https://www.google.com/search?q=caldera+dos&oq=Calldera+DOS
too lazy-a to google for it. :)
Rod Speed wrote:
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Felix <none@nowhere.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
I've been using Microsoft since it was DoS, >
It was never DOS
That was just my brain fart, I thought he meanf
windows and didnt bother to proofread that
this has reminded me of DOS Shell, or DOS hell as we called it, the
first GUI file manager
M$ MS-DOS
Rod Speed don't know that,
Corse I do and even you should be able to use groups
google to see I have said that countless times
always used Google to get answers
More of your mindless bullshit given that
I have been doing that since long before
google was even invented, fuckwit
doubt if he ever-a worked with Computers
Been doing that since LONG before you
ever did, and LONG before the PC was even
invented and have a thesis to prove it that
even you should be able to check, ANU
He lives in a farming district Griffith, NSW
And did all the computers in the CSIRO
division in Griffith LONG before you even
knew what a fucking computer was and
LONG before the PC was even invented.
Rod Speed wrote
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS installed,
In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it to be
installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a hard drive.
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with Floppy disks.
As such, they constituted a need for a *Disk Operating System*.
What's more, the earlier 5150s
even came wit a TOS, a *Tape Operating System*.
and that was the end of DR DOS.
Because the IBM completely dominated the market very quickly
The business market, yes. The home market, not so much.
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
DCR was one hell of a flaky place, couldn't decide whetherit was a
government service bureau or a research site.
Hardly surprising given what CSIRO was about and given
the even earlier computer research there and the need to
provide computers to the organisation and others later
Undocumented changes to the operating system made on the fly, the
government departments forced to use it, hated it.
Bullshit
No bullshit,
I was actually there and saw what went on.
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
CSIRO in Griffith NSW would of had laboratory rats testing water
samples,
Wrong, as always. We actually used the chem
lab to do that and the computerised enalytical
equipment was set up by me.
And it was the Water Commission and a mate of
mine who ran the council water supply system
which did most of the water sampling
with Lab equipment and maybe equipment to run samples through
In 1960's doubt if their would if been need for doubt they existed
"computer technicians"
Someone had to setup the computers that controlled and
processed the data that the lab equipment produced.
possibly needed Telecom
Only for csironet which allowed the CDC 3600
and 7600 mainframes in Canberra using PDP11s
In my day at that time there was no such field.
Bullshit
but computers were comming of age,
And I was part of that, unlike you who just did the egg run
Uninversities were delving into training they were big
things doubt very much that Rod had univerisity traing,
Two degrees including a research thesis in fact
.he most certanly can typ quicker that you can speak,
more likley a telephone technician ortelecommunications technician.
CSIRO never had any of those
That said
The Griffith site was in 1963 connected to the central CDC 3600 system
in Canberra, enabling remote access for scientific research.
<https://www.eoas.info/biogs/P005807b.htm>
Water Resources Research, Griffith, New South Wales - CSIR/O (1927 - )
In fact earlier than that, we have just had the centenary earlier this year
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
DCR was-a one hell of a flaky place, couldn't decide whetherit was a >>>> government-a service bureau or a research site.
-aHardly surprising given what CSIRO was about and given
the even earlier computer research there and the need to
provide computers to the organisation and others later
Undocumented changes to the operating system made on the fly, the
government departments forced to use it, hated it.
-aBullshit
No bullshit,
Complete bullshit with the last bit
I was actually there and saw what went on.
So was I and know that that last bit is complete bullshit
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
CSIRO in Griffith NSW would of had laboratory rats testing water
samples,
Wrong, as always. We actually used the chem
lab to do that and the computerised enalytical
equipment was set up by me.
And it was the Water Commission and a mate of
mine who ran the council water supply system
which did most of the water sampling
with Lab equipment and maybe equipment to run samples through
In 1960's doubt if their would if been need for doubt they existed
"computer technicians"
Someone had to setup the computers that controlled and
processed the data that the lab equipment produced.
possibly needed Telecom
Only for csironet which allowed the CDC 3600
and 7600 mainframes in Canberra using PDP11s
In my day at that time there was no such field.
Bullshit
but computers were comming of age,
And I was part of that, unlike you who just did the egg run
Uninversities were delving into training they were big
things doubt very much that Rod had univerisity traing,
Two degrees including a research thesis in fact
he most certanly can typ quicker that you can speak,
more likley a telephone technician ortelecommunications technician.
CSIRO never had any of those
That said
The Griffith site was in 1963 connected to the central CDC 3600 system >>>> in Canberra, enabling remote access for scientific research.
<https://www.eoas.info/biogs/P005807b.htm>
Water Resources Research, Griffith, New South Wales - CSIR/O (1927 - )
.In fact earlier than that, we have just had the centenary earlier this >>> year
You saying CSIRO had computers working in 1925?
Nope, dope. That was when CSIRO in GRIFFITH got started, fuckwit
I have
Construction of this pioneering machine began in the late 1940s, and
it ran its first test program on 14 November 1949.
This made it the first computer in Australia and one of the earliest
stored-program electronic computers in the world.
I have you working in Griffith CSIRO 1977
Long after I actually did
but not what you did.
Your problem, as always
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
DCR was one hell of a flaky place, couldn't decide whetherit was a >>>>> government service bureau or a research site.
Hardly surprising given what CSIRO was about and given
the even earlier computer research there and the need to
provide computers to the organisation and others later
Undocumented changes to the operating system made on the fly, the
government departments forced to use it, hated it.
Bullshit
No bullshit,
Complete bullshit with the last bit
Nope,
these were people that I worked with.
DCR viewed their customers (who had no choice aboutusing DCR as a
bureau at the time) basically as
a test load.
They were difficult people to deal with.
On one occasion, the 3600 went down while I was the only CDC person on site, I fixed it and told the operators that they could bring it back on line. Next thing I knew one of the scientists came round demanding to
know why the machine was back up. I told him that it was because I had fixed it. "How do you know it is fixed" he asked, my answer was "It was broken before, but now it's working" he didn't seem particularly
satisfied so I offered to give him the bad board and he could test it if
he wished. He wasn't happy but went away anyway, and the 3600 continued
to work just fine.
CDC had a sales guy just for DCR, they would speak to him because he had
a PhD, they didn't want to know lesser people.
I was actually there and saw what went on.
So was I and know that that last bit is complete bullshit
So you were at the Black Mountain site?
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote.
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
CSIRO in Griffith NSW would of had laboratory rats testing water >>>>>>> samples,
Wrong, as always. We actually used the chem
lab to do that and the computerised enalytical
equipment was set up by me.
And it was the Water Commission and a mate of
mine who ran the council water supply system
which did most of the water sampling
with Lab equipment and maybe equipment to run samples through
In 1960's doubt if their would if been need for doubt they existed >>>>>>> "computer technicians"
Someone had to setup the computers that controlled and
processed the data that the lab equipment produced.
possibly needed Telecom
Only for csironet which allowed the CDC 3600
and 7600 mainframes in Canberra using PDP11s
In my day at that time there was no such field.
Bullshit
but computers were comming of age,
And I was part of that, unlike you who just did the egg run
Uninversities were delving into training they were big
things doubt very much that Rod had univerisity traing,
Two degrees including a research thesis in fact
he most certanly can typ quicker that you can speak,
more likley a telephone technician or
telecommunications technician.
CSIRO never had any of those
That said
The Griffith site was in 1963 connected to the central CDC 3600
system
in Canberra, enabling remote access for scientific research.
<https://www.eoas.info/biogs/P005807b.htm>
Water Resources Research, Griffith, New South Wales - CSIR/O (1927 >>>>>>> -
)
In fact earlier than that, we have just had the centenary earlier >>>>>> this year
You saying CSIRO had computers working in 1925?
Nope, dope. That was when CSIRO in GRIFFITH got started, fuckwit
I have
Construction of this pioneering machine began in the late 1940s, and >>>>> it ran its first test program on 14 November 1949.
This made it the first computer in Australia and one of the earliest >>>>> stored-program electronic computers in the world.
I have you working in Griffith CSIRO 1977
Long after I actually did
OK possible,
Absolutely certainly in fact
had a friend reading at my place you replies to Ozemail
group, who remembered you in 1997 CSIRO!
That date is wrong too
Meant 1977
but not what you did.
Your problem, as always
Not really
Yep, really
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
DCR was-a one hell of a flaky place, couldn't decide whetherit was >>>>>> a-a government-a service bureau or a research site.
Hardly surprising given what CSIRO was about and given
the even earlier computer research there and the need to
provide computers to the organisation and others later
Undocumented changes to the operating system made on the fly, the >>>>>> government departments forced to use it, hated it.
-aBullshit
No bullshit,
Complete bullshit with the last bit
Nope,
Yep
these were people that I worked with.
But you are just another fuckwit pom
DCR viewed their customers-a (who had no choice aboutusing DCR as a
bureau at the time) basically as
Because there wasnt anything else in Canberra to use as a bureau,
fuckwit pom
a test load.
Bullshit on bullshit on bullshit
They were difficult people to deal with.
Bullshit on bullshit on bullshit
On one occasion, the 3600 went down while I was the only CDC person on
site, I fixed it and told the operators that they could bring it back
on line. Next thing I knew one of the scientists came round demanding
to know why the machine was back up. I told him that it was because I
had fixed it. "How do you know it is fixed" he asked, my answer was
"It was broken before, but now it's working" he didn't seem
particularly satisfied so I offered to give him the bad board and he
could test it if he wished. He wasn't happy but went away anyway, and
the 3600 continued to work just fine.
Just because some fuckwit was a fuckwit...
CDC had a sales guy just for DCR, they would speak to him because he
had a PhD, they didn't want to know lesser people.
How odd that they employed plenty of those
I was actually there and saw what went on.
So was I and know that that last bit is complete bullshit
So you were at the Black Mountain site?
Nops
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS installed,
-aIn fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it to be
installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a hard drive.
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with Floppy disks.
In fact all did
As-a such, they constituted a need for a *Disk Operating System*.
That sentance makes no sense
What's more, the earlier 5150s
That is the offical name for the IBM PC
You are thinking about the 5100
even came wit a TOS, a *Tape Operating System*.
Nope
No, the *clones* dominated the home market, the IBM was a tad pricy forand that was the end of DR DOS.
-aBecause the IBM completely dominated the market very quickly
The business market, yes. The home market, not so much.
Yes it did initially
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
DCR was one hell of a flaky place, couldn't decide whether
it was a government service bureau or a research site.
Hardly surprising given what CSIRO was about and given
the even earlier computer research there and the need to
provide computers to the organisation and others later
Undocumented changes to the operating system made on the fly, the >>>>>>> government departments forced to use it, hated it.
Bullshit
No bullshit,
Complete bullshit with the last bit
Nope,
Yep
these were people that I worked with.
But you are just another fuckwit pom
DCR viewed their customers (who had no choice aboutusing DCR as a
bureau at the time) basically as
Because there wasnt anything else in Canberra to use as a bureau,
fuckwit pom
There was ABS.
a test load.
Bullshit on bullshit on bullshit
They were difficult people to deal with.
Bullshit on bullshit on bullshit
Since you weren't there,
On one occasion, the 3600 went down while I was the only CDC personon >>> site, I fixed it and told the operators that they could bring it back
on line. Next thing I knew one of the scientists came round demanding
to know why the machine was back up. I told him that it was because I
had fixed it. "How do you know it is fixed" he asked, my answer was
"It was broken before, but now it's working" he didn't seem
particularly satisfied so I offered to give him the bad board and he
could test it if he wished. He wasn't happy but went away anyway, and
the 3600 continued to work just fine.
Just because some fuckwit was a fuckwit...
CDC had a sales guy just for DCR, they would speak to him because he
had a PhD, they didn't want to know lesser people.
How odd that they employed plenty of those
I was actually there and saw what went on.
So was I and know that that last bit is complete bullshit
So you were at the Black Mountain site?
Nops
Then you weren't actually there,
and have no idea what it was like there.
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
DCR was-a one hell of a flaky place, couldn't decide whether
it was-a a-a government-a service bureau or a research site.
Hardly surprising given what CSIRO was about and given
the even earlier computer research there and the need to
provide computers to the organisation and others later
Undocumented changes to the operating system made on the fly, >>>>>>>> the government departments forced to use it, hated it.
-aBullshit
No bullshit,
Complete bullshit with the last bit
Nope,
-aYep
Nope
these were people that I worked with.
-aBut you are just another fuckwit pom
DCR viewed their customers-a (who had no choice aboutusing DCR as a
bureau at the time) basically as
-aBecause there wasnt anything else in Canberra to use as a bureau,
fuckwit pom
There was ABS.
Which wasnt free for govt departments at that time
a test load.
-aBullshit on bullshit on bullshit
They were difficult people to deal with.
-aBullshit on bullshit on bullshit
Since you weren't there,
I was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
I was working for the ANU
On one occasion, the 3600 went down while I was the only CDC
personon-a site, I fixed it and told the operators that they could
bring it back on line. Next thing I knew one of the scientists came
round demanding to know why the machine was back up. I told him that
it was because I had fixed it. "How do you know it is fixed" he
asked, my answer was "It was broken before, but now it's working" he
didn't seem particularly satisfied so I offered to give him the bad
board and he could test it if he wished. He wasn't happy but went
away anyway, and the 3600 continued to work just fine.
-aJust because some fuckwit was a fuckwit...
CDC had a sales guy just for DCR, they would speak to him because he
had a PhD, they didn't want to know lesser people.
-aHow odd that they employed plenty of those
I was actually there and saw what went on.
So was I and know that that last bit is complete bullshit
So you were at the Black Mountain site?
-aNops
Then you weren't actually there,
I was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
I was working for the ANU and used both the ANU IBM
360/50 and the DCR CDC 3600 at that time and ran the
ANU IBM 360/50 personally myself in the evenings
and have no idea what it was like there.
Wrong, as always
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
DCR was one hell of a flaky place, couldn't decide whether
it was a government service bureau or a research site.
Hardly surprising given what CSIRO was about and given
the even earlier computer research there and the need to
provide computers to the organisation and others later
Undocumented changes to the operating system made on the fly, >>>>>>>>> the government departments forced to use it, hated it.
Bullshit
No bullshit,
Complete bullshit with the last bit
Nope,
Yep
Nope
these were people that I worked with.
But you are just another fuckwit pom
DCR viewed their customers (who had no choice aboutusing DCR as a >>>>> bureau at the time) basically as
Because there wasnt anything else in Canberra to use as a bureau,
fuckwit pom
There was ABS.
Which wasnt free for govt departments at that time
a test load.
Bullshit on bullshit on bullshit
They were difficult people to deal with.
Bullshit on bullshit on bullshit
Since you weren't there,
I was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
I was working for the ANU
On one occasion, the 3600 went down while I was the only CDC
personon site, I fixed it and told the operators that they could
bring it back on line. Next thing I knew one of the scientists came >>>>> round demanding to know why the machine was back up. I told him that >>>>> it was because I had fixed it. "How do you know it is fixed" he
asked, my answer was "It was broken before, but now it's working" he >>>>> didn't seem particularly satisfied so I offered to give him the bad >>>>> board and he could test it if he wished. He wasn't happy but went
away anyway, and the 3600 continued to work just fine.
Just because some fuckwit was a fuckwit...
CDC had a sales guy just for DCR, they would speak to him because he >>>>> had a PhD, they didn't want to know lesser people.
How odd that they employed plenty of those
I was actually there and saw what went on.
So was I and know that that last bit is complete bullshit
So you were at the Black Mountain site?
Nops
Then you weren't actually there,
I was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
I was working for the ANU and used both the ANU IBM
360/50 and the DCR CDC 3600 at that time and ran the
ANU IBM 360/50 personally myself in the evenings
The mighty 360/50, it ended up as a controller for IBM cheque sorters, about as powerful as the laptop that I'm writing this on, the 3600 was a much more powerful machine.
and have no idea what it was like there.
Wrong, as always
you haven't changed in 30 years, you'll never admin that you're wrong,
just bluster until the other party loses interest.
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS installed,
In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it to be
installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a hard drive.
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with Floppy disks.
In fact all did
No, not all. From Wikipedia
The IBM PC debuted on August 12, 1981, after a twelve-month
development. Pricing started at $1,565 for a configuration
with 16 KB RAM, Color Graphics Adapter, keyboard, and
*no disk drives*.
Have fun explaining what PC DOS ran on
The price was designed to compete with
comparable machines in the market.
More bullshit giving the Apple which
was its main competitor at that time.
And from specs;
Removable storage.
5.25" Floppy drives (160 KB or 320 KB), Cassette
As such, they constituted a need for a *Disk Operating System*.
That sentence makes no sense
When you can spell, I'll try to educate you on parsing a sentence.
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
What's more, the earlier 5150s
That is the offical name for the IBM PC
You are thinking about the 5100
Nope, the 5150.
That is the offical name for the IBM PC
even came wit a TOS, a *Tape Operating System*.
Nope
See above,
Useless
the original PCs in the most basic configuration
You never said that before
came with only a cassette hence the needfor a *really basic* TOS built
into the ROM.
More ignorant bullshit
It was basic but it was for cassette tapes.
and that was the end of DR DOS.
Because the IBM completely dominated the market very quickly
The business market, yes. The home market, not so much.
Yes it did initially
No, the *clones* dominated the home market,
The clones came later, as I said
the IBM was a tad pricy for the average *home* user.
Bullshit in the USA
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
DCR was-a one hell of a flaky place, couldn't decide whether >>>>>>>>>> it was-a a-a government-a service bureau or a research site.
Hardly surprising given what CSIRO was about and given
the even earlier computer research there and the need to
provide computers to the organisation and others later
Undocumented changes to the operating system made on the fly, >>>>>>>>>> the government departments forced to use it, hated it.
-aBullshit
No bullshit,
Complete bullshit with the last bit
Nope,
-aYep
-aNope
these were people that I worked with.
-aBut you are just another fuckwit pom
DCR viewed their customers-a (who had no choice aboutusing DCR as a >>>>>> bureau at the time) basically as
-aBecause there wasnt anything else in Canberra to use as a bureau, >>>>> fuckwit pom
There was ABS.
-aWhich wasnt free for govt departments at that time
a test load.
-aBullshit on bullshit on bullshit
They were difficult people to deal with.
-aBullshit on bullshit on bullshit
Since you weren't there,
-aI was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
-aI was working for the ANU
On one occasion, the 3600 went down while I was the only CDC
personon-a site, I fixed it and told the operators that they could >>>>>> bring it back on line. Next thing I knew one of the scientists
came round demanding to know why the machine was back up. I told
him that it was because I had fixed it. "How do you know it is
fixed" he asked, my answer was "It was broken before, but now it's >>>>>> working" he didn't seem particularly satisfied so I offered to
give him the bad board and he could test it if he wished. He
wasn't happy but went away anyway, and the 3600 continued to work >>>>>> just fine.
-aJust because some fuckwit was a fuckwit...
CDC had a sales guy just for DCR, they would speak to him because >>>>>> he had a PhD, they didn't want to know lesser people.
-aHow odd that they employed plenty of those
I was actually there and saw what went on.
So was I and know that that last bit is complete bullshit
So you were at the Black Mountain site?
-aNops
Then you weren't actually there,
-aI was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
-aI was working for the ANU and used both the ANU IBM
360/50 and the DCR CDC 3600 at that time and ran the
ANU IBM 360/50 personally myself in the evenings
The mighty 360/50, it ended up as a controller for IBM cheque sorters,
about as powerful as the laptop that I'm writing this on, the 3600 was
a much more powerful machine.
Irrelevant to your terminal stupidity about me not being there
and have no idea what it was like there.
-aWrong, as always
you haven't changed in 30 years, you'll never admin that you're wrong,
We all swooned when you just admitted that you are wrong, as always
just bluster until the other party loses interest.
We can see you doing just that in this steaming turd alone
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 14:31:43 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On 14/7/2025 1:11 pm, Xeno wrote:
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote-aIn a machine with no floppy drives, quite likely rom based. If the
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS
installed,
In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it to be >>>>>>>> installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a hard >>>>>>>> drive.
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with Floppy disks.
In fact all did
No, not all.-a From Wikipedia
The IBM PC debuted on August 12, 1981, after a twelve-month
development. Pricing started at $1,565 for a configuration
with 16 KB RAM, Color Graphics Adapter, keyboard, and
*no disk drives*.
Have fun explaining what PC DOS ran on
machin-a has no floppy drives, any rCLDOSrCY is somewhat redundant.
A quick memory refresh - the cassette tape version of the IBM 5150
didn't use a ROM version of PC DOS. Instead, it used a ROM based BASIC
interpreter, known as Cassette BASIC, which was used for loading and
saving programs to cassette tapes. As I suspected, it was Cassette
BASIC that had the TOS.
There was no TOS.
PC DOS was the primary operating system for the IBM PC but it was
loaded from a floppy disk, not from the ROM. If there was no floppy
disk drive or, I presume, a bootable disk, the PC would default to the
ROM based interpreter. I vaguely recall seeing one boot into the ROM
but, since most home computers had a ROM based BASIC interpreter, I
could be mistaken.
FWIW, the first of the 5150 IBM PCs had no way of booting from hard
disks. In fact, IIRC, they couldn't even "see" the hard disks. The
original PC BIOS 1.0, possibly 1.1 as well, did not support hard
disks. A ROM upgrade provided the necessary patch.
In fact the XT was quite different
--There was another issue, the first of the PCs had only a 63 Watt power
supply. Sufficient for the PC with two floppy drives but not for many
of the power hungry hard drives of the era. IIRC, the run current
wasn't the issue, it was the startup current that could be 2-3 times
the run current and that would trip out the PSU. I recall using a
couple of ESDI drives on a PC back in the day and the startup current
on those was huge. I had to stagger the startups so the first would be
in the run state before the second began firing up - and they had
provision for that.
Man, that was such a long time ago.
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wroteIrrelevant to your terminal stupidity about me not being there
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
DCR was one hell of a flaky place, couldn't decide whether >>>>>>>>>>> it was a government service bureau or a research site.
Hardly surprising given what CSIRO was about and given
the even earlier computer research there and the need to
provide computers to the organisation and others later
Undocumented changes to the operating system made on the fly, >>>>>>>>>>> the government departments forced to use it, hated it.
Bullshit
No bullshit,
Complete bullshit with the last bit
Nope,
Yep
Nope
these were people that I worked with.
But you are just another fuckwit pom
DCR viewed their customers (who had no choice aboutusing DCR as a >>>>>>> bureau at the time) basically as
Because there wasnt anything else in Canberra to use as a bureau, >>>>>> fuckwit pom
There was ABS.
Which wasnt free for govt departments at that time
a test load.
Bullshit on bullshit on bullshit
They were difficult people to deal with.
Bullshit on bullshit on bullshit
Since you weren't there,
I was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
I was working for the ANU
On one occasion, the 3600 went down while I was the only CDC
personon site, I fixed it and told the operators that they could >>>>>>> bring it back on line. Next thing I knew one of the scientists >>>>>>> came round demanding to know why the machine was back up. I told >>>>>>> him that it was because I had fixed it. "How do you know it is >>>>>>> fixed" he asked, my answer was "It was broken before, but now it's >>>>>>> working" he didn't seem particularly satisfied so I offered to >>>>>>> give him the bad board and he could test it if he wished. He
wasn't happy but went away anyway, and the 3600 continued to work >>>>>>> just fine.
Just because some fuckwit was a fuckwit...
CDC had a sales guy just for DCR, they would speak to him because >>>>>>> he had a PhD, they didn't want to know lesser people.
How odd that they employed plenty of those
I was actually there and saw what went on.
So was I and know that that last bit is complete bullshit
So you were at the Black Mountain site?
Nops
Then you weren't actually there,
I was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
I was working for the ANU and used both the ANU IBM
360/50 and the DCR CDC 3600 at that time and ran the
ANU IBM 360/50 personally myself in the evenings
The mighty 360/50, it ended up as a controller for IBM cheque sorters, >>> about as powerful as the laptop that I'm writing this on, the 3600 was >>> a much more powerful machine.
You have admitted that you weren't at DCR.
Anyway the academics at ANU pretty well despisedIBM gear, they were
Unisys people.
BTW, in the later models of the IBM 3890 cheque sorter, they replaced
the 360/50 with a PS2 PC, it ran faster, and was reliable too.
and have no idea what it was like there.
Wrong, as always
you haven't changed in 30 years, you'll never admin that you're wrong,
We all swooned when you just admitted that you are wrong, as always
Pathetic even for you.
just bluster until the other party loses interest.
We can see you doing just that in this steaming turd alone
The steaming turd is all yours as usual roddles.
On 14/7/2025 3:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:Thats not an OS
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 14:31:43 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> >> wrote:There was, it was built into the BASIC ROM.
On 14/7/2025 1:11 pm, Xeno wrote:There was no TOS.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wroteIn a machine with no floppy drives, quite likely rom based. If the >>>> machin has no floppy drives, any rCLDOSrCY is somewhat redundant.
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS >>>>>>>>>> installed,
In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it to be >>>>>>>>> installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a hard >>>>>>>>> drive.
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with Floppy disks. >>>>>In fact all did
No, not all. From Wikipedia
The IBM PC debuted on August 12, 1981, after a twelve-month
development. Pricing started at $1,565 for a configuration
with 16 KB RAM, Color Graphics Adapter, keyboard, and
*no disk drives*.
Have fun explaining what PC DOS ran on
A quick memory refresh - the cassette tape version of the IBM 5150 >>> didn't use a ROM version of PC DOS. Instead, it used a ROM based BASIC >>> interpreter, known as Cassette BASIC, which was used for loading and >>> saving programs to cassette tapes. As I suspected, it was Cassette >>> BASIC that had the TOS.
As I said, it wasn't a fancy TOS, but it was there.But was never an OS
None of that is any newsThe XT wasn't the PC under discussion, only the first year or so of the > PCPC DOS was the primary operating system for the IBM PC but it was >>> loaded from a floppy disk, not from the ROM. If there was no floppy >>> disk drive or, I presume, a bootable disk, the PC would default to the >>> ROM based interpreter. I vaguely recall seeing one boot into the ROM >>> but, since most home computers had a ROM based BASIC interpreter, I >>> could be mistaken.In fact the XT was quite different
FWIW, the first of the 5150 IBM PCs had no way of booting from hard >>> disks. In fact, IIRC, they couldn't even "see" the hard disks. The >>> original PC BIOS 1.0, possibly 1.1 as well, did not support hard >>> disks. A ROM upgrade provided the necessary patch.
Anyway, take a gander at this;
Early versions of the 5150
Initially, there was no IBM support for hard drives at all.
The barriers were:
rCo DOS 1.0 and 1.1 has no hard drive support.
rCo The BIOS on the 5150 motherboard has no support for hard drives.
rCo 'BIOS expansion ROM' functionality did not exist at this time.
rCo The IBM 5150's 63W power supply was inadequate to power both the
5150 and hard drives of the time.
Later versions of the 5150
EARLY 1983, some significant events occurred. The IBM 5160
(IBM XT) and DOS 2.0 were released, and they supported hard
drives. The BIOS on the 5160 motherboard introduced support
for BIOS expansion ROM's, and so now it was possible for a
hard drive controller card to have its supporting BIOS
located within a ROM on the card.
About this time is when a *new revision* of motherboard BIOSIrrelevant to what we are discussing
appeared for the IBM 5150, the 10/27/82 revision, and it too
had support for BIOS expansion ROM's.
So at this time, someone with a 10/27/82 BIOS equipped IBM 5150Irrelevant to what we are discussing
could fit an XT-class hard disk controller, a hard drive, and
run DOS 2 - all that would need to be worried about was
whether or not the 5150's 63W power supply was going to be
adequate for the task. But at the time, it was not adequate
(due to the power requirements of current hard drives). It is
the reason why IBM put a 130W power supply in the 5160.
The diagram at here shows that the +12V start-up power
requirement of the Seagate ST-412 easily exceeds the +12V
power rating (24W) of the 5150's 63W power supply.
At this time is when IBM offered a hard drive solution forIrrelevant to what we are discussing
the IBM 5150. It was the attachment of an IBM 5161
expansion unit (one that contained a hard drive and
controller) to the 5150.
https://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5150/hdd/5150_hard_drive_support.htmIrrelevant to what we are discussing
So, it appears that support for the 5150 didn't appear until the XT > arrived on the scene. The 5160 supported hard drives, the 5150 did not - > at least until they retrofitted the relevant drivers from the 5160 into > the 5150 ROM. We had a heap of early 5150 PCs at the college and, though > it had been done whilst I was teaching at a different college, they were > all retrofitted, all had the updated ROM and all were equipped with Hard > Disks. What's more they were all networked with IBMs Token Ring > networking to an AT. Come to think of it, there might have been a few > 5160 XTs in the mix by 1985.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2There was another issue, the first of the PCs had only a 63 Watt power >>> supply. Sufficient for the PC with two floppy drives but not for many >>> of the power hungry hard drives of the era. IIRC, the run current >>> wasn't the issue, it was the startup current that could be 2-3 times >>> the run current and that would trip out the PSU. I recall using a >>> couple of ESDI drives on a PC back in the day and the startup current >>> on those was huge. I had to stagger the startups so the first would be >>> in the run state before the second began firing up - and they had >>> provision for that.
Man, that was such a long time ago.
On 14/7/2025 1:11 pm, Xeno wrote:There was no TOS.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:A quick memory refresh - the cassette tape version of the IBM 5150 > didn't use a ROM version of PC DOS. Instead, it used a ROM based BASIC > interpreter, known as Cassette BASIC, which was used for loading and > saving programs to cassette tapes. As I suspected, it was Cassette BASIC > that had the TOS.
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wroteIn a machine with no floppy drives, quite likely rom based. If the >> machin has no floppy drives, any rCLDOSrCY is somewhat redundant.
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS >>>>>>>> installed,
In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it to be>>>>>>> installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a hard >>>>>>> drive.
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with Floppy disks.
In fact all did
No, not all. From Wikipedia
The IBM PC debuted on August 12, 1981, after a twelve-month
development. Pricing started at $1,565 for a configuration
with 16 KB RAM, Color Graphics Adapter, keyboard, and
*no disk drives*.
Have fun explaining what PC DOS ran on
PC DOS was the primary operating system for the IBM PC but it was loaded > from a floppy disk, not from the ROM. If there was no floppy disk drive > or, I presume, a bootable disk, the PC would default to the ROM based > interpreter. I vaguely recall seeing one boot into the ROM but, since > most home computers had a ROM based BASIC interpreter, I could be > mistaken.In fact the XT was quite different
FWIW, the first of the 5150 IBM PCs had no way of booting from hard > disks. In fact, IIRC, they couldn't even "see" the hard disks. The > original PC BIOS 1.0, possibly 1.1 as well, did not support hard disks. > A ROM upgrade provided the necessary patch.
There was another issue, the first of the PCs had only a 63 Watt power > supply. Sufficient for the PC with two floppy drives but not for many of > the power hungry hard drives of the era. IIRC, the run current wasn't > the issue, it was the startup current that could be 2-3 times the run > current and that would trip out the PSU. I recall using a couple of ESDI > drives on a PC back in the day and the startup current on those was > huge. I had to stagger the startups so the first would be in the run > state before the second began firing up - and they had provision for > that.--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
Man, that was such a long time ago.
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 19:34:12 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On 14/7/2025 3:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 14:31:43 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:
On 14/7/2025 1:11 pm, Xeno wrote:-aThere was no TOS.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote-aIn a machine with no floppy drives, quite likely rom based. If the >>>>> machin-a has no floppy drives, any rCLDOSrCY is somewhat redundant.
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS >>>>>>>>>>> installed,
In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it to be >>>>>>>>>> installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a hard >>>>>>>>>> drive.
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with Floppy disks. >>>>>>In fact all did
No, not all.-a From Wikipedia
The IBM PC debuted on August 12, 1981, after a twelve-month
development. Pricing started at $1,565 for a configuration
with 16 KB RAM, Color Graphics Adapter, keyboard, and
*no disk drives*.
Have fun explaining what PC DOS ran on
A quick memory refresh - the cassette tape version of the IBM 5150
didn't use a ROM version of PC DOS. Instead, it used a ROM based
BASIC interpreter, known as Cassette BASIC, which was used for
loading and saving programs to cassette tapes. As I suspected, it
was Cassette BASIC that had the TOS.
There was, it was built into the BASIC ROM.
Thats not an OS
As I said, it wasn't a fancy-a TOS, but it was there.
But was never an OS
PC DOS was the primary operating system for the IBM PC but it was
loaded from a floppy disk, not from the ROM. If there was no floppy
disk drive or, I presume, a bootable disk, the PC would default to
the ROM based interpreter. I vaguely recall seeing one boot into the
ROM but, since most home computers had a ROM based BASIC
interpreter, I could be mistaken.
FWIW, the first of the 5150 IBM PCs had no way of booting from hard
disks. In fact, IIRC, they couldn't even "see" the hard disks. The
original PC BIOS 1.0, possibly 1.1 as well, did not support hard
disks. A ROM upgrade provided the necessary patch.
-aIn fact the XT was quite different
The XT wasn't the PC under discussion, only the first year or so of
the PC
Anyway, take a gander at this;
-a-a-a Early versions of the 5150
-a-a-a Initially, there was no IBM support for hard drives at all.
-a-a-a The barriers were:
-a-a-a rCo DOS 1.0 and 1.1 has no hard drive support.
-a-a-a rCo The BIOS on the 5150 motherboard has no support for hard drives. >> -a-a-a rCo 'BIOS expansion ROM' functionality did not exist at this time.
-a-a-a rCo The IBM 5150's 63W power supply was inadequate to power both the >> -a-a-a-a-a 5150 and hard drives of the time.
-a-a-a Later versions of the 5150
-a-a-a EARLY 1983, some significant events occurred.-a The IBM 5160
-a-a-a (IBM XT) and DOS 2.0 were released, and they supported hard
-a-a-a drives.-a The BIOS on the 5160 motherboard introduced support
-a-a-a for BIOS expansion ROM's, and so now it was possible for a
-a-a-a hard drive controller card to have its supporting BIOS
-a-a-a located within a ROM on the card.
None of that is any news
-a-a-a About this time is when a *new revision* of motherboard BIOS
-a-a-a appeared for the IBM 5150, the 10/27/82 revision, and it too
-a-a-a had support for BIOS expansion ROM's.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
-a-a-a So at this time, someone with a 10/27/82 BIOS equipped IBM 5150
-a-a-a could fit an XT-class hard disk controller, a hard drive, and
-a-a-a run DOS 2 - all that would need to be worried about was
-a-a-a whether or not the 5150's 63W power supply was going to be
-a-a-a adequate for the task.-a But at the time, it was not adequate
-a-a-a (due to the power requirements of current hard drives). It is
-a-a-a the reason why IBM put a 130W power supply in the 5160.
-a-a-a The diagram at here shows that the +12V start-up power
-a-a-a requirement of the Seagate ST-412 easily exceeds the +12V
-a-a-a power rating (24W) of the 5150's 63W power supply.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
-a-a-a At this time is when IBM offered a hard drive solution for
-a-a-a the IBM 5150.-a It was the attachment of an IBM 5161
-a-a-a expansion unit (one that contained a hard drive and
-a-a-a controller) to the 5150.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
https://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5150/hdd/5150_hard_drive_support.htm
So, it appears that support for the 5150 didn't appear until the XT
arrived on the scene. The 5160 supported hard drives, the 5150 did not
- at least until they retrofitted the relevant drivers from the 5160
into the 5150 ROM. We had a heap of early 5150 PCs at the college and,
though it had been done whilst I was teaching at a different college,
they were all retrofitted, all had the updated ROM and all were
equipped with Hard Disks. What's more they were all networked with
IBMs Token Ring networking to an AT. Come to think of it, there might
have been a few 5160 XTs in the mix by 1985.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
--There was another issue, the first of the PCs had only a 63 Watt
power supply. Sufficient for the PC with two floppy drives but not
for many of the power hungry hard drives of the era. IIRC, the run
current wasn't the issue, it was the startup current that could be
2-3 times the run current and that would trip out the PSU. I recall
using a couple of ESDI drives on a PC back in the day and the
startup current on those was huge. I had to stagger the startups so
the first would be in the run state before the second began firing
up - and they had provision for that.
Man, that was such a long time ago.
On 14/07/2025 1:44 am, Rod Speed wrote:
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
DCR was-a one hell of a flaky place, couldn't decide whether >>>>>>>>> it was-a a-a government-a service bureau or a research site.
Hardly surprising given what CSIRO was about and given
the even earlier computer research there and the need to
provide computers to the organisation and others later
Undocumented changes to the operating system made on the fly, >>>>>>>>> the government departments forced to use it, hated it.
-aBullshit
No bullshit,
Complete bullshit with the last bit
Nope,
-aYep
Nope
these were people that I worked with.
-aBut you are just another fuckwit pom
DCR viewed their customers-a (who had no choice aboutusing DCR as a >>>>> bureau at the time) basically as
-aBecause there wasnt anything else in Canberra to use as a bureau,
fuckwit pom
There was ABS.
Which wasnt free for govt departments at that time
a test load.
-aBullshit on bullshit on bullshit
They were difficult people to deal with.
-aBullshit on bullshit on bullshit
Since you weren't there,
I was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
I was working for the ANU
On one occasion, the 3600 went down while I was the only CDC
personon-a site, I fixed it and told the operators that they could
bring it back on line. Next thing I knew one of the scientists
came round demanding to know why the machine was back up. I told
him that it was because I had fixed it. "How do you know it is
fixed" he asked, my answer was "It was broken before, but now it's
working" he didn't seem particularly satisfied so I offered to
give him the bad board and he could test it if he wished. He
wasn't happy but went away anyway, and the 3600 continued to work
just fine.
-aJust because some fuckwit was a fuckwit...
CDC had a sales guy just for DCR, they would speak to him because
he had a PhD, they didn't want to know lesser people.
-aHow odd that they employed plenty of those
I was actually there and saw what went on.
So was I and know that that last bit is complete bullshit
So you were at the Black Mountain site?
-aNops
Then you weren't actually there,
I was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
I was working for the ANU and used both the ANU IBM
360/50 and the DCR CDC 3600 at that time and ran the
ANU IBM 360/50 personally myself in the evenings
The mighty 360/50, it ended up as a controller for IBM cheque sorters,
about as powerful as the laptop that I'm writing this on, the 3600 was
a much more powerful machine.
and have no idea what it was like there.
Wrong, as always
you haven't changed in 30 years, you'll never admin that you're wrong,
just bluster until the other party loses interest.
On 15/7/2025 3:11 am, Rod Speed wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 19:34:12 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:
On 14/7/2025 3:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 14:31:43 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:
On 14/7/2025 1:11 pm, Xeno wrote:-aThere was no TOS.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:A quick memory refresh - the cassette tape version of the IBM 5150
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote-aIn a machine with no floppy drives, quite likely rom based. If
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS >>>>>>>>>>>> installed,
In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it to be >>>>>>>>>>> installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a >>>>>>>>>>> hard drive.
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with Floppy >>>>>>>>>> disks.
In fact all did
No, not all.-a From Wikipedia
The IBM PC debuted on August 12, 1981, after a twelve-month
development. Pricing started at $1,565 for a configuration
with 16 KB RAM, Color Graphics Adapter, keyboard, and
*no disk drives*.
Have fun explaining what PC DOS ran on
the machin-a has no floppy drives, any rCLDOSrCY is somewhat redundant. >>>>
didn't use a ROM version of PC DOS. Instead, it used a ROM based
BASIC interpreter, known as Cassette BASIC, which was used for
loading and saving programs to cassette tapes. As I suspected, it
was Cassette BASIC that had the TOS.
There was, it was built into the BASIC ROM.
Thats not an OS
As I said, it wasn't a fancy-a TOS, but it was there.
But was never an OS
No, it was a TOS. Can you not read???>
PC DOS was the primary operating system for the IBM PC but it was
loaded from a floppy disk, not from the ROM. If there was no floppy >>>>> disk drive or, I presume, a bootable disk, the PC would default to
the ROM based interpreter. I vaguely recall seeing one boot into
the ROM but, since most home computers had a ROM based BASIC
interpreter, I could be mistaken.
FWIW, the first of the 5150 IBM PCs had no way of booting from hard >>>>> disks. In fact, IIRC, they couldn't even "see" the hard disks. The
original PC BIOS 1.0, possibly 1.1 as well, did not support hard
disks. A ROM upgrade provided the necessary patch.
-aIn fact the XT was quite different
The XT wasn't the PC under discussion, only the first year or so of
the PC
Anyway, take a gander at this;
-a-a-a Early versions of the 5150
-a-a-a Initially, there was no IBM support for hard drives at all.
-a-a-a The barriers were:
-a-a-a rCo DOS 1.0 and 1.1 has no hard drive support.
-a-a-a rCo The BIOS on the 5150 motherboard has no support for hard drives. >>> -a-a-a rCo 'BIOS expansion ROM' functionality did not exist at this time. >>> -a-a-a rCo The IBM 5150's 63W power supply was inadequate to power both the >>> -a-a-a-a-a 5150 and hard drives of the time.
-a-a-a Later versions of the 5150
-a-a-a EARLY 1983, some significant events occurred.-a The IBM 5160
-a-a-a (IBM XT) and DOS 2.0 were released, and they supported hard
-a-a-a drives.-a The BIOS on the 5160 motherboard introduced support
-a-a-a for BIOS expansion ROM's, and so now it was possible for a
-a-a-a hard drive controller card to have its supporting BIOS
-a-a-a located within a ROM on the card.
None of that is any news
No, and I didn't say it was. It is, however, *recorded history* of the
PC development.>
-a-a-a About this time is when a *new revision* of motherboard BIOS
-a-a-a appeared for the IBM 5150, the 10/27/82 revision, and it too
-a-a-a had support for BIOS expansion ROM's.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
Not irrelevant to the discussion, irrelevant to the direction you want
the discussion to go.>
-a-a-a So at this time, someone with a 10/27/82 BIOS equipped IBM 5150
-a-a-a could fit an XT-class hard disk controller, a hard drive, and
-a-a-a run DOS 2 - all that would need to be worried about was
-a-a-a whether or not the 5150's 63W power supply was going to be
-a-a-a adequate for the task.-a But at the time, it was not adequate
-a-a-a (due to the power requirements of current hard drives). It is
-a-a-a the reason why IBM put a 130W power supply in the 5160.
-a-a-a The diagram at here shows that the +12V start-up power
-a-a-a requirement of the Seagate ST-412 easily exceeds the +12V
-a-a-a power rating (24W) of the 5150's 63W power supply.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
We were discussing an OD, in this case a Disk OS. The first PCs (5150)
did not have any ability to control hard disks, only floppies and, of course, the cassette tape subsystem>
-a-a-a At this time is when IBM offered a hard drive solution for
-a-a-a the IBM 5150.-a It was the attachment of an IBM 5161
-a-a-a expansion unit (one that contained a hard drive and
-a-a-a controller) to the 5150.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
Highly relevant - regardless of what you might think.>
https://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5150/hdd/5150_hard_drive_support.htm
So, it appears that support for the 5150 didn't appear until the XT
arrived on the scene. The 5160 supported hard drives, the 5150 did
not - at least until they retrofitted the relevant drivers from the
5160 into the 5150 ROM. We had a heap of early 5150 PCs at the
college and, though it had been done whilst I was teaching at a
different college, they were all retrofitted, all had the updated ROM
and all were equipped with Hard Disks. What's more they were all
networked with IBMs Token Ring networking to an AT. Come to think of
it, there might have been a few 5160 XTs in the mix by 1985.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
Relevant, 5150s, in their original form did not have the inherent
ability to control Hard Disks, either in software or hardware. I have
been making that point all along and the above link confirms my memory recall. >
There was another issue, the first of the PCs had only a 63 Watt
power supply. Sufficient for the PC with two floppy drives but not
for many of the power hungry hard drives of the era. IIRC, the run
current wasn't the issue, it was the startup current that could be
2-3 times the run current and that would trip out the PSU. I recall >>>>> using a couple of ESDI drives on a PC back in the day and the
startup current on those was huge. I had to stagger the startups so >>>>> the first would be in the run state before the second began firing
up - and they had provision for that.
Man, that was such a long time ago.
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote-aIrrelevant to your terminal stupidity about me not being there
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
DCR was-a one hell of a flaky place, couldn't decide whether >>>>>>>>>>>> it was-a a-a government-a service bureau or a research site.
Hardly surprising given what CSIRO was about and given
the even earlier computer research there and the need to >>>>>>>>>>> provide computers to the organisation and others later
Undocumented changes to the operating system made on the >>>>>>>>>>>> fly, the government departments forced to use it, hated it.
-aBullshit
No bullshit,
Complete bullshit with the last bit
Nope,
-aYep
-aNope
these were people that I worked with.
-aBut you are just another fuckwit pom
DCR viewed their customers-a (who had no choice aboutusing DCR as >>>>>>>> a bureau at the time) basically as
-aBecause there wasnt anything else in Canberra to use as a
bureau, fuckwit pom
There was ABS.
-aWhich wasnt free for govt departments at that time
a test load.
-aBullshit on bullshit on bullshit
They were difficult people to deal with.
-aBullshit on bullshit on bullshit
Since you weren't there,
-aI was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
-aI was working for the ANU
On one occasion, the 3600 went down while I was the only CDC
personon-a site, I fixed it and told the operators that they
could bring it back on line. Next thing I knew one of the
scientists came round demanding to know why the machine was back >>>>>>>> up. I told him that it was because I had fixed it. "How do you >>>>>>>> know it is fixed" he asked, my answer was "It was broken before, >>>>>>>> but now it's working" he didn't seem particularly satisfied so I >>>>>>>> offered to give him the bad board and he could test it if he
wished. He wasn't happy but went away anyway, and the 3600
continued to work just fine.
-aJust because some fuckwit was a fuckwit...
CDC had a sales guy just for DCR, they would speak to him
because he had a PhD, they didn't want to know lesser people.
-aHow odd that they employed plenty of those
I was actually there and saw what went on.
So was I and know that that last bit is complete bullshit
So you were at the Black Mountain site?
-aNops
Then you weren't actually there,
-aI was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
-aI was working for the ANU and used both the ANU IBM
360/50 and the DCR CDC 3600 at that time and ran the
ANU IBM 360/50 personally myself in the evenings
The mighty 360/50, it ended up as a controller for IBM cheque
sorters, about as powerful as the laptop that I'm writing this on,
the 3600 was a much more powerful machine.
You have admitted that you weren't at DCR.
I was however at the ANU and used DCR daily
Anyway the academics at ANU pretty well despisedIBM gear, they were
Unisys people.
More mindless pig ignorant bullshit.
BTW, in the later models of the IBM 3890 cheque sorter, they replaced
the 360/50 with a PS2 PC, it ran faster, and was reliable too.
Irrelevant to your stupid lie about me not being there
and have no idea what it was like there.
-aWrong, as always
you haven't changed in 30 years, you'll never admin that you're wrong,
-aWe all swooned when you just admitted that you are wrong, as always
Pathetic even for you.
Yes you are
just bluster until the other party loses interest.
-aWe can see you doing just that in this steaming turd alone
The steaming turd is all yours as usual roddles.
Pathetic even for you.
On 15/07/2025 12:26 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 15/7/2025 3:11 am, Rod Speed wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 19:34:12 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:
On 14/7/2025 3:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 14:31:43 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> >>>>> wrote:
On 14/7/2025 1:11 pm, Xeno wrote:-aThere was no TOS.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:A quick memory refresh - the cassette tape version of the IBM 5150 >>>>>> didn't use a ROM version of PC DOS. Instead, it used a ROM based
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote-aIn a machine with no floppy drives, quite likely rom based. If >>>>>>> the machin-a has no floppy drives, any rCLDOSrCY is somewhat redundant. >>>>>
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS >>>>>>>>>>>>> installed,
In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it >>>>>>>>>>>> to be
installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a >>>>>>>>>>>> hard drive.
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with Floppy >>>>>>>>>>> disks.
In fact all did
No, not all.-a From Wikipedia
The IBM PC debuted on August 12, 1981, after a twelve-month
development. Pricing started at $1,565 for a configuration
with 16 KB RAM, Color Graphics Adapter, keyboard, and
*no disk drives*.
Have fun explaining what PC DOS ran on
BASIC interpreter, known as Cassette BASIC, which was used for
loading and saving programs to cassette tapes. As I suspected, it >>>>>> was Cassette BASIC that had the TOS.
There was, it was built into the BASIC ROM.
Thats not an OS
As I said, it wasn't a fancy-a TOS, but it was there.
But was never an OS
No, it was a TOS. Can you not read???>
The ability to save and load data to a cassette does not constitute an operating system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_cassette_tape
PC DOS was the primary operating system for the IBM PC but it was >>>>>> loaded from a floppy disk, not from the ROM. If there was no
floppy disk drive or, I presume, a bootable disk, the PC would
default to the ROM based interpreter. I vaguely recall seeing one >>>>>> boot into the ROM but, since most home computers had a ROM based
BASIC interpreter, I could be mistaken.
FWIW, the first of the 5150 IBM PCs had no way of booting from
hard disks. In fact, IIRC, they couldn't even "see" the hard
disks. The original PC BIOS 1.0, possibly 1.1 as well, did not
support hard disks. A ROM upgrade provided the necessary patch.
-aIn fact the XT was quite different
The XT wasn't the PC under discussion, only the first year or so of
the PC
Anyway, take a gander at this;
-a-a-a Early versions of the 5150
-a-a-a Initially, there was no IBM support for hard drives at all.
-a-a-a The barriers were:
-a-a-a rCo DOS 1.0 and 1.1 has no hard drive support.
-a-a-a rCo The BIOS on the 5150 motherboard has no support for hard drives.
-a-a-a rCo 'BIOS expansion ROM' functionality did not exist at this time. >>>> -a-a-a rCo The IBM 5150's 63W power supply was inadequate to power both the
-a-a-a-a-a 5150 and hard drives of the time.
-a-a-a Later versions of the 5150
-a-a-a EARLY 1983, some significant events occurred.-a The IBM 5160
-a-a-a (IBM XT) and DOS 2.0 were released, and they supported hard
-a-a-a drives.-a The BIOS on the 5160 motherboard introduced support
-a-a-a for BIOS expansion ROM's, and so now it was possible for a
-a-a-a hard drive controller card to have its supporting BIOS
-a-a-a located within a ROM on the card.
None of that is any news
No, and I didn't say it was. It is, however, *recorded history* of the
PC development.>
-a-a-a About this time is when a *new revision* of motherboard BIOS
-a-a-a appeared for the IBM 5150, the 10/27/82 revision, and it too
-a-a-a had support for BIOS expansion ROM's.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
Not irrelevant to the discussion, irrelevant to the direction you want
the discussion to go.>
-a-a-a So at this time, someone with a 10/27/82 BIOS equipped IBM 5150 >>>> -a-a-a could fit an XT-class hard disk controller, a hard drive, and
-a-a-a run DOS 2 - all that would need to be worried about was
-a-a-a whether or not the 5150's 63W power supply was going to be
-a-a-a adequate for the task.-a But at the time, it was not adequate
-a-a-a (due to the power requirements of current hard drives). It is
-a-a-a the reason why IBM put a 130W power supply in the 5160.
-a-a-a The diagram at here shows that the +12V start-up power
-a-a-a requirement of the Seagate ST-412 easily exceeds the +12V
-a-a-a power rating (24W) of the 5150's 63W power supply.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
We were discussing an OD, in this case a Disk OS. The first PCs (5150)
did not have any ability to control hard disks, only floppies and, of
course, the cassette tape subsystem>
-a-a-a At this time is when IBM offered a hard drive solution for
-a-a-a the IBM 5150.-a It was the attachment of an IBM 5161
-a-a-a expansion unit (one that contained a hard drive and
-a-a-a controller) to the 5150.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
Highly relevant - regardless of what you might think.>
https://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5150/hdd/5150_hard_drive_support.htm
So, it appears that support for the 5150 didn't appear until the XT
arrived on the scene. The 5160 supported hard drives, the 5150 did
not - at least until they retrofitted the relevant drivers from the
5160 into the 5150 ROM. We had a heap of early 5150 PCs at the
college and, though it had been done whilst I was teaching at a
different college, they were all retrofitted, all had the updated
ROM and all were equipped with Hard Disks. What's more they were all
networked with IBMs Token Ring networking to an AT. Come to think of
it, there might have been a few 5160 XTs in the mix by 1985.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
Relevant, 5150s, in their original form did not have the inherent
ability to control Hard Disks, either in software or hardware. I have
been making that point all along and the above link confirms my memory
recall. >
There was another issue, the first of the PCs had only a 63 Watt
power supply. Sufficient for the PC with two floppy drives but not >>>>>> for many of the power hungry hard drives of the era. IIRC, the run >>>>>> current wasn't the issue, it was the startup current that could be >>>>>> 2-3 times the run current and that would trip out the PSU. I
recall using a couple of ESDI drives on a PC back in the day and
the startup current on those was huge. I had to stagger the
startups so the first would be in the run state before the second >>>>>> began firing up - and they had provision for that.
Man, that was such a long time ago.
On 15/7/2025 3:11 am, Rod Speed wrote:Nope, just a driver at most
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 19:34:12 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> >> wrote:No, it was a TOS.
On 14/7/2025 3:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:Thats not an OS
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 14:31:43 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> >>>> wrote:
On 14/7/2025 1:11 pm, Xeno wrote:There was no TOS.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wroteIn a machine with no floppy drives, quite likely rom based. If the >>>>>> machin has no floppy drives, any rCLDOSrCY is somewhat redundant.
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS >>>>>>>>>>>> installed,
In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it to >>>>>>>>>>> be
installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a hard >>>>>>>>>>> drive.
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with Floppy >>>>>>>>>> disks.
In fact all did
No, not all. From Wikipedia
The IBM PC debuted on August 12, 1981, after a twelve-month
development. Pricing started at $1,565 for a configuration
with 16 KB RAM, Color Graphics Adapter, keyboard, and
*no disk drives*.
Have fun explaining what PC DOS ran on
A quick memory refresh - the cassette tape version of the IBM 5150 >>>>> didn't use a ROM version of PC DOS. Instead, it used a ROM based >>>>> BASIC interpreter, known as Cassette BASIC, which was used for >>>>> loading and saving programs to cassette tapes. As I suspected, it >>>>> was Cassette BASIC that had the TOS.
There was, it was built into the BASIC ROM.
As I said, it wasn't a fancy TOS, but it was there.But was never an OS
Can you not read???Just because some unnamed source claims something...
And like I said, is no newsNo, and I didn't say it was. It is, however, *recorded history* of the > PC development.None of that is any newsPC DOS was the primary operating system for the IBM PC but it was >>>>> loaded from a floppy disk, not from the ROM. If there was no floppy >>>>> disk drive or, I presume, a bootable disk, the PC would default to >>>>> the ROM based interpreter. I vaguely recall seeing one boot into the >>>>> ROM but, since most home computers had a ROM based BASIC >>>>> interpreter, I could be mistaken.
FWIW, the first of the 5150 IBM PCs had no way of booting from hard >>>>> disks. In fact, IIRC, they couldn't even "see" the hard disks. The >>>>> original PC BIOS 1.0, possibly 1.1 as well, did not support hard >>>>> disks. A ROM upgrade provided the necessary patch.
In fact the XT was quite different
The XT wasn't the PC under discussion, only the first year or so of >>> the PC
Anyway, take a gander at this;
Early versions of the 5150
Initially, there was no IBM support for hard drives at all.
The barriers were:
rCo DOS 1.0 and 1.1 has no hard drive support.
rCo The BIOS on the 5150 motherboard has no support for hard drives. >>> rCo 'BIOS expansion ROM' functionality did not exist at this time.
rCo The IBM 5150's 63W power supply was inadequate to power both the >>> 5150 and hard drives of the time.
Later versions of the 5150
EARLY 1983, some significant events occurred. The IBM 5160
(IBM XT) and DOS 2.0 were released, and they supported hard
drives. The BIOS on the 5160 motherboard introduced support
for BIOS expansion ROM's, and so now it was possible for a
hard drive controller card to have its supporting BIOS
located within a ROM on the card.
its irrelevant to what is being discussed, whether there was ever a TOSNot irrelevant to the discussion,About this time is when a *new revision* of motherboard BIOSIrrelevant to what we are discussing
appeared for the IBM 5150, the 10/27/82 revision, and it too
had support for BIOS expansion ROM's.
And floppys are disksWe were discussing an OD, in this case a Disk OS. The first PCs (5150) > did not have any ability to control hard disks, only floppies and, of > course, the cassette tape subsystemSo at this time, someone with a 10/27/82 BIOS equipped IBM 5150Irrelevant to what we are discussing
could fit an XT-class hard disk controller, a hard drive, and
run DOS 2 - all that would need to be worried about was
whether or not the 5150's 63W power supply was going to be
adequate for the task. But at the time, it was not adequate
(due to the power requirements of current hard drives). It is
the reason why IBM put a 130W power supply in the 5160.
The diagram at here shows that the +12V start-up power
requirement of the Seagate ST-412 easily exceeds the +12V
power rating (24W) of the 5150's 63W power supply.
Floppys are disksRelevant, 5150s, in their original form did not have the inherent > ability to control Hard Disks,At this time is when IBM offered a hard drive solution forIrrelevant to what we are discussing
the IBM 5150. It was the attachment of an IBM 5161
expansion unit (one that contained a hard drive and
controller) to the 5150.
https://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5150/hdd/5150_hard_drive_support.htmIrrelevant to what we are discussing
So, it appears that support for the 5150 didn't appear until the XT >>> arrived on the scene. The 5160 supported hard drives, the 5150 did not >>> - at least until they retrofitted the relevant drivers from the 5160 >>> into the 5150 ROM. We had a heap of early 5150 PCs at the college and, >>> though it had been done whilst I was teaching at a different college, >>> they were all retrofitted, all had the updated ROM and all were >>> equipped with Hard Disks. What's more they were all networked with >>> IBMs Token Ring networking to an AT. Come to think of it, there might >>> have been a few 5160 XTs in the mix by 1985.
either in software or hardware. I have been making that point all along > and the above link confirms my memory recall.But you are too stupid to realise that floppys are disks
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2There was another issue, the first of the PCs had only a 63 Watt >>>>> power supply. Sufficient for the PC with two floppy drives but not >>>>> for many of the power hungry hard drives of the era. IIRC, the run >>>>> current wasn't the issue, it was the startup current that could be >>>>> 2-3 times the run current and that would trip out the PSU. I recall >>>>> using a couple of ESDI drives on a PC back in the day and the >>>>> startup current on those was huge. I had to stagger the startups so >>>>> the first would be in the run state before the second began firing >>>>> up - and they had provision for that.
Man, that was such a long time ago.
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wroteIrrelevant to your terminal stupidity about me not being there
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
DCR was one hell of a flaky place, couldn't decide whether >>>>>>>>>>>>> it was a government service bureau or a research site.
Hardly surprising given what CSIRO was about and given >>>>>>>>>>>> the even earlier computer research there and the need to >>>>>>>>>>>> provide computers to the organisation and others later
Undocumented changes to the operating system made on the >>>>>>>>>>>>> fly, the government departments forced to use it, hated it.
Bullshit
No bullshit,
Complete bullshit with the last bit
Nope,
Yep
Nope
these were people that I worked with.
But you are just another fuckwit pom
DCR viewed their customers (who had no choice aboutusing DCR as >>>>>>>>> a bureau at the time) basically as
Because there wasnt anything else in Canberra to use as a
bureau, fuckwit pom
There was ABS.
Which wasnt free for govt departments at that time
a test load.
Bullshit on bullshit on bullshit
They were difficult people to deal with.
Bullshit on bullshit on bullshit
Since you weren't there,
I was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
I was working for the ANU
On one occasion, the 3600 went down while I was the only CDC >>>>>>>>> personon site, I fixed it and told the operators that they >>>>>>>>> could bring it back on line. Next thing I knew one of the
scientists came round demanding to know why the machine was back >>>>>>>>> up. I told him that it was because I had fixed it. "How do you >>>>>>>>> know it is fixed" he asked, my answer was "It was broken before, >>>>>>>>> but now it's working" he didn't seem particularly satisfied so I >>>>>>>>> offered to give him the bad board and he could test it if he >>>>>>>>> wished. He wasn't happy but went away anyway, and the 3600 >>>>>>>>> continued to work just fine.
Just because some fuckwit was a fuckwit...
CDC had a sales guy just for DCR, they would speak to him
because he had a PhD, they didn't want to know lesser people.
How odd that they employed plenty of those
I was actually there and saw what went on.
So was I and know that that last bit is complete bullshit
So you were at the Black Mountain site?
Nops
Then you weren't actually there,
I was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
I was working for the ANU and used both the ANU IBM
360/50 and the DCR CDC 3600 at that time and ran the
ANU IBM 360/50 personally myself in the evenings
The mighty 360/50, it ended up as a controller for IBM cheque
sorters, about as powerful as the laptop that I'm writing this on, >>>>> the 3600 was a much more powerful machine.
You have admitted that you weren't at DCR.I was however at the ANU and used DCR daily
OK, you used the DCR through the network,
but were you ever physically on site on a regular basis?
Anyway the academics at ANU pretty well despised
IBM gear, they were Unisys people.
More mindless pig ignorant bullshit.
Not according to the people that I knew there.
BTW, in the later models of the IBM 3890 cheque sorter, they replacedIrrelevant to your stupid lie about me not being there
the 360/50 with a PS2 PC, it ran faster, and was reliable too.
By your own admission, you weren't
and have no idea what it was like there.
Wrong, as always
you haven't changed in 30 years, you'll never admin that you're
wrong,
We all swooned when you just admitted that you are wrong, as always
Pathetic even for you.
Yes you are
You're loosing it Speed, you used to be able to do better than that.
just bluster until the other party loses interest.
We can see you doing just that in this steaming turd alone
The steaming turd is all yours as usual roddles.
Pathetic even for you.
Alt-F3?
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:There never was any PC DOS in rom in the 5150
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wroteIn a machine with no floppy drives, quite likely rom based.
Rod Speed wroteHave fun explaining what PC DOS ran on
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wroteNo, not all. From Wikipedia
Rod Speed wrote
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with Floppy disks.>>>> In fact all didbut Msnot won a contract for IBM PC'sto ship with MS-DOS >>>>>>> installed,In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it to be
installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a hard >>>>>> drive.
The IBM PC debuted on August 12, 1981, after a twelve-month
development. Pricing started at $1,565 for a configuration
with 16 KB RAM, Color Graphics Adapter, keyboard, and
*no disk drives*.
If the machine has no floppy drives,any rCLDOSrCY is somewhat redundant.Precisely
Bullshit before the 5150 showed upNah, Apple had the education and homemarkets sewn up, business not so > much.The price was designed to compete withMore bullshit giving the Apple which
comparable machines in the market.
was its main competitor at that time.
Also, there was quite a bit of competition in the homemarket that the > PC initially was unable to compete with.More bullshit
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bagThank you for your generous concession!And from specs;You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
Removable storage.
5.25" Floppy drives (160 KB or 320 KB), Cassette
When you can spell, I'll try to educate you on parsing a sentence.As such, they constituted a need for a *Disk Operating System*.That sentence makes no sense
So you fucked upWell aware of that.That is the offical name for the IBM PCNope, the 5150.What's more, the earlier 5150sThat is the offical name for the IBM PC
You are thinking about the 5100
YepDid I really need to?UselessSee above,even came wit a TOS, a *Tape Operating System*.Nope
the original PCs in the most basic configurationYou never said that before
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bagThank you again for your generous concession.came with only a cassette hence the needMore ignorant bullshit
for a *really basic* TOS built into the ROM.
BullshitAnd, before the clones came a plethora of home computersof various > types and most better suited to the home market.It was basic but it was for cassette tapes.The clones came later, as I said
No, the *clones* dominated the home market,Yes it did initiallyThe business market, yes. The home market, not so much.and that was the end of DR DOS.Because the IBM completely dominated the market very quickly
Their purchasing power was always much better so plentyIn relative terms, pricy here, pricy there.the IBM was a tad pricy for the average *home* user.Bullshit in the USA
On 15/7/2025 3:12 pm, keithr0 wrote:No point, you don't have a fucking clue
On 15/07/2025 12:26 pm, Xeno wrote:Read what I wrote,
On 15/7/2025 3:11 am, Rod Speed wrote:The ability to save and load data to a cassette does not constitute an >> operating system.
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 19:34:12 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> >>>> wrote:
On 14/7/2025 3:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 14:31:43 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> >>>>>> wrote:
On 14/7/2025 1:11 pm, Xeno wrote:There was no TOS.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wroteIn a machine with no floppy drives, quite likely rom based. If >>>>>>>> the machin has no floppy drives, any rCLDOSrCY is somewhat redundant.
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS >>>>>>>>>>>>>> installed,
In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it >>>>>>>>>>>>> to be
installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a >>>>>>>>>>>>> hard drive.
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with Floppy >>>>>>>>>>>> disks.
In fact all did
No, not all. From Wikipedia
The IBM PC debuted on August 12, 1981, after a twelve-month >>>>>>>>>> development. Pricing started at $1,565 for a configuration >>>>>>>>>> with 16 KB RAM, Color Graphics Adapter, keyboard, and
*no disk drives*.
Have fun explaining what PC DOS ran on
A quick memory refresh - the cassette tape version of the IBM 5150 >>>>>>> didn't use a ROM version of PC DOS. Instead, it used a ROM based >>>>>>> BASIC interpreter, known as Cassette BASIC, which was used for >>>>>>> loading and saving programs to cassette tapes. As I suspected, it >>>>>>> was Cassette BASIC that had the TOS.
There was, it was built into the BASIC ROM.
Thats not an OS
As I said, it wasn't a fancy TOS, but it was there.
But was never an OS
No, it was a TOS. Can you not read???>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_cassette_tape
it has a TOS built in,There never was any TOS jusr the ability to read and write the cassette
albeit a very simple one.Not an OS at all
It also has a DOS built in and the PC will default to the TOS, and ROM > BASIC, in the absence of floppy disk drives, and *ignore* the DOS.What was built in was never an OS, that was loaded from floppy
FWIW, my first computer only had the TOS in the ROM Basic interpreter.You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arseYou wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
A friend added the DOS code to the ROM BASIC interpreter and made it > loadable into RAM.
Eventually he converted the ROM addressing to RAM and added RAM to the > high memory where the Basic DOS now lived.You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
That was all back in the day when you could really *tinker* with > computers, a far cry from my recently purchased Mac Mini M4.You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2PC DOS was the primary operating system for the IBM PC but it was >>>>>>> loaded from a floppy disk, not from the ROM. If there was no >>>>>>> floppy disk drive or, I presume, a bootable disk, the PC would >>>>>>> default to the ROM based interpreter. I vaguely recall seeing one >>>>>>> boot into the ROM but, since most home computers had a ROM based >>>>>>> BASIC interpreter, I could be mistaken.
FWIW, the first of the 5150 IBM PCs had no way of booting from >>>>>>> hard disks. In fact, IIRC, they couldn't even "see" the hard >>>>>>> disks. The original PC BIOS 1.0, possibly 1.1 as well, did not >>>>>>> support hard disks. A ROM upgrade provided the necessary patch.
In fact the XT was quite different
The XT wasn't the PC under discussion, only the first year or so of >>>>> the PC
Anyway, take a gander at this;
Early versions of the 5150
Initially, there was no IBM support for hard drives at all.
The barriers were:
rCo DOS 1.0 and 1.1 has no hard drive support.
rCo The BIOS on the 5150 motherboard has no support for hard >>>>> drives.
rCo 'BIOS expansion ROM' functionality did not exist at this time. >>>>> rCo The IBM 5150's 63W power supply was inadequate to power both >>>>> the
5150 and hard drives of the time.
Later versions of the 5150
EARLY 1983, some significant events occurred. The IBM 5160
(IBM XT) and DOS 2.0 were released, and they supported hard
drives. The BIOS on the 5160 motherboard introduced support
for BIOS expansion ROM's, and so now it was possible for a
hard drive controller card to have its supporting BIOS
located within a ROM on the card.
None of that is any news
No, and I didn't say it was. It is, however, *recorded history* of the >>> PC development.>
About this time is when a *new revision* of motherboard BIOS
appeared for the IBM 5150, the 10/27/82 revision, and it too
had support for BIOS expansion ROM's.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
Not irrelevant to the discussion, irrelevant to the direction you want >>> the discussion to go.>
So at this time, someone with a 10/27/82 BIOS equipped IBM 5150
could fit an XT-class hard disk controller, a hard drive, and
run DOS 2 - all that would need to be worried about was
whether or not the 5150's 63W power supply was going to be
adequate for the task. But at the time, it was not adequate
(due to the power requirements of current hard drives). It is
the reason why IBM put a 130W power supply in the 5160.
The diagram at here shows that the +12V start-up power
requirement of the Seagate ST-412 easily exceeds the +12V
power rating (24W) of the 5150's 63W power supply.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
We were discussing an OD, in this case a Disk OS. The first PCs (5150) >>> did not have any ability to control hard disks, only floppies and, of >>> course, the cassette tape subsystem>
At this time is when IBM offered a hard drive solution for
the IBM 5150. It was the attachment of an IBM 5161
expansion unit (one that contained a hard drive and
controller) to the 5150.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
Highly relevant - regardless of what you might think.>
https://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5150/hdd/5150_hard_drive_support.htm >>>>
So, it appears that support for the 5150 didn't appear until the XT >>>>> arrived on the scene. The 5160 supported hard drives, the 5150 did >>>>> not - at least until they retrofitted the relevant drivers from the >>>>> 5160 into the 5150 ROM. We had a heap of early 5150 PCs at the >>>>> college and, though it had been done whilst I was teaching at a >>>>> different college, they were all retrofitted, all had the updated >>>>> ROM and all were equipped with Hard Disks. What's more they were all >>>>> networked with IBMs Token Ring networking to an AT. Come to think of >>>>> it, there might have been a few 5160 XTs in the mix by 1985.
Irrelevant to what we are discussing
Relevant, 5150s, in their original form did not have the inherent >>> ability to control Hard Disks, either in software or hardware. I have >>> been making that point all along and the above link confirms my memory >>> recall. >
There was another issue, the first of the PCs had only a 63 Watt >>>>>>> power supply. Sufficient for the PC with two floppy drives but not >>>>>>> for many of the power hungry hard drives of the era. IIRC, the run >>>>>>> current wasn't the issue, it was the startup current that could be >>>>>>> 2-3 times the run current and that would trip out the PSU. I >>>>>>> recall using a couple of ESDI drives on a PC back in the day and >>>>>>> the startup current on those was huge. I had to stagger the >>>>>>> startups so the first would be in the run state before the second >>>>>>> began firing up - and they had provision for that.
Man, that was such a long time ago.
On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 16:30:02 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On 15/7/2025 3:12 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 15/07/2025 12:26 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 15/7/2025 3:11 am, Rod Speed wrote:-aThe ability to save and load data to a cassette does not constitute
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 19:34:12 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> >>>>> wrote:
On 14/7/2025 3:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 14:31:43 +1000, Xeno
<xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On 14/7/2025 1:11 pm, Xeno wrote:-aThere was no TOS.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote-aIn a machine with no floppy drives, quite likely rom based. If >>>>>>>>> the machin-a has no floppy drives, any rCLDOSrCY is somewhat redundant.
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> installed,
In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be
installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hard drive.
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with Floppy >>>>>>>>>>>>> disks.
In fact all did
No, not all.-a From Wikipedia
The IBM PC debuted on August 12, 1981, after a twelve-month >>>>>>>>>>> development. Pricing started at $1,565 for a configuration >>>>>>>>>>> with 16 KB RAM, Color Graphics Adapter, keyboard, and
*no disk drives*.
Have fun explaining what PC DOS ran on
A quick memory refresh - the cassette tape version of the IBM >>>>>>>> 5150 didn't use a ROM version of PC DOS. Instead, it used a ROM >>>>>>>> based BASIC interpreter, known as Cassette BASIC, which was used >>>>>>>> for loading and saving programs to cassette tapes. As I
suspected, it was Cassette BASIC that had the TOS.
There was, it was built into the BASIC ROM.
Thats not an OS
As I said, it wasn't a fancy-a TOS, but it was there.
But was never an OS
No, it was a TOS. Can you not read???>
an operating system.
-ahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_cassette_tape
Read what I wrote,
No point, you don't have a fucking clue
it has a TOS built in,
There never was any TOS jusr the ability to read and write the cassette
albeit a very simple one.
Not an OS at all
It also has a DOS built in and the PC will default to the TOS, and ROM
BASIC, in the absence of floppy disk drives, and *ignore* the DOS.
What was built in was never an OS, that was loaded from floppy
Thank you for conceding defeat. Most gracious of you!FWIW, my first computer only had the TOS in the ROM Basic interpreter.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
A friend added the DOS code to the ROM BASIC interpreter and made it
loadable into RAM.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
Eventually he converted the ROM addressing to RAM and added RAM to the
high memory where the Basic DOS now lived.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
That was all back in the day when you could really *tinker* with
computers, a far cry from my recently purchased Mac Mini M4.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
On 15/7/2025 5:05 pm, Rod Speed wrote:That doesnt make it an OS
On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 16:30:02 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> >> wrote:Beg to differ. The ROM BASIC version had the commands "SAVE" and "LOAD".
On 15/7/2025 3:12 pm, keithr0 wrote:No point, you don't have a fucking clue
On 15/07/2025 12:26 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 15/7/2025 3:11 am, Rod Speed wrote:The ability to save and load data to a cassette does not constitute >>>> an operating system.
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 19:34:12 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> >>>>>> wrote:
On 14/7/2025 3:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 14:31:43 +1000, Xeno >>>>>>>> <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On 14/7/2025 1:11 pm, Xeno wrote:There was no TOS.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wroteIn a machine with no floppy drives, quite likely rom based. If >>>>>>>>>> the machin has no floppy drives, any rCLDOSrCY is somewhat >>>>>>>>>> redundant.
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> installed,
In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be
installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hard drive.
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with Floppy >>>>>>>>>>>>>> disks.
In fact all did
No, not all. From Wikipedia
The IBM PC debuted on August 12, 1981, after a twelve-month>>>>>>>>>>>> development. Pricing started at $1,565 for a configuration
with 16 KB RAM, Color Graphics Adapter, keyboard, and
*no disk drives*.
Have fun explaining what PC DOS ran on
A quick memory refresh - the cassette tape version of the IBM >>>>>>>>> 5150 didn't use a ROM version of PC DOS. Instead, it used a ROM >>>>>>>>> based BASIC interpreter, known as Cassette BASIC, which was used >>>>>>>>> for loading and saving programs to cassette tapes. As I >>>>>>>>> suspected, it was Cassette BASIC that had the TOS.
There was, it was built into the BASIC ROM.
Thats not an OS
As I said, it wasn't a fancy TOS, but it was there.
But was never an OS
No, it was a TOS. Can you not read???>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_cassette_tape
Read what I wrote,
it has a TOS built in,There never was any TOS jusr the ability to read and write the cassette
They *only* worked on the Cassette tape interface. In Cassette BASIC in > ROM, there were *NO DISK COMMANDS*. Cassette BASIC didn't even know what > a Floppy Disk was. That makes the CASSETTE OS a *TOS*Wrong, as always/ JUST a program that could read and write cassettes
no matter how *you* want to label it.Wikipedia too eh ?
If you wanted to load and save to disk, you had to boot DOS from a > floppy disk. In the BASIC from there, the same commands, "LOAD" and > "SAVE", would operate on the floppy disk.But that did use DOS to do that
Nope, JUST a program that could read and write cassettesIn fact, it's a TOS, a Tape Operating System.albeit a very simple one.Not an OS at all
Nope, JUST a program that could read and write cassettesI noticed I made an error in the segment above, should have written;It also has a DOS built in and the PC will default to the TOS, and ROM >>> BASIC, in the absence of floppy disk drives, and *ignore* the DOS.
"It has a TOS built in to the ROM
and the PC will default to the TOS, and ROMBASIC in the absence of a > bootable floppy disk".Its no news that the original 5150 had a
Anyway, this video clip confirms what I've said thus far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_8CXyF5M1Q
Yes, PC DOS was indeed a disk operating systemWhat was built in was never an OS, that was loaded from floppyPC DOS was loaded from Disk - it *was* a *Disk* Operating System albeit > only for floppy drives in the DOS Rev. 1.x days.
What was on the ROM version of Cassette BASIC was a TOSNope, JUST a program that could read and write to cassette
since it only knew how to handle files on *cassette tape*.Doesnt make it an OS
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bagThank you for conceding defeat. Most gracious of you!FWIW, my first computer only had the TOS in the ROM Basic interpreter.You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
A friend added the DOS code to the ROM BASIC interpreter and made it >>> loadable into RAM.You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
Eventually he converted the ROM addressing to RAM and added RAM to the >>> high memory where the Basic DOS now lived.You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
That was all back in the day when you could really *tinker* with >>> computers, a far cry from my recently purchased Mac Mini M4.You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 20:06:27 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On 15/7/2025 5:05 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 16:30:02 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:
On 15/7/2025 3:12 pm, keithr0 wrote:No point, you don't have a fucking clue
On 15/07/2025 12:26 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 15/7/2025 3:11 am, Rod Speed wrote:The ability to save and load data to a cassette does not constitute >>>>> an operating system.
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 19:34:12 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> >>>>>>> wrote:
On 14/7/2025 3:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 14:31:43 +1000, Xeno
<xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On 14/7/2025 1:11 pm, Xeno wrote:There was no TOS.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wroteIn a machine with no floppy drives, quite likely rom based. If >>>>>>>>>>> the machin has no floppy drives, any rCLDOSrCY is somewhat >>>>>>>>>>> redundant.
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with MS-DOS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> installed,
In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be
installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hard drive.
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with Floppy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disks.
In fact all did
No, not all. From Wikipedia
The IBM PC debuted on August 12, 1981, after a twelve-month >>>>>>>>>>>>> development. Pricing started at $1,565 for a configuration >>>>>>>>>>>>> with 16 KB RAM, Color Graphics Adapter, keyboard, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> *no disk drives*.
Have fun explaining what PC DOS ran on
A quick memory refresh - the cassette tape version of the IBM >>>>>>>>>> 5150 didn't use a ROM version of PC DOS. Instead, it used a ROM >>>>>>>>>> based BASIC interpreter, known as Cassette BASIC, which was used >>>>>>>>>> for loading and saving programs to cassette tapes. As I
suspected, it was Cassette BASIC that had the TOS.
There was, it was built into the BASIC ROM.
Thats not an OS
As I said, it wasn't a fancy TOS, but it was there.
But was never an OS
No, it was a TOS. Can you not read???>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_cassette_tape
Read what I wrote,
it has a TOS built in,
There never was any TOS jusr the ability to read and write the cassette
Beg to differ. The ROM BASIC version had the commands "SAVE" and "LOAD".
That doesnt make it an OS
Like I said you wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
They *only* worked on the Cassette tape interface. In Cassette BASIC in
ROM, there were *NO DISK COMMANDS*. Cassette BASIC didn't even know what >> a Floppy Disk was. That makes the CASSETTE OS a *TOS*
Wrong, as always/ JUST a program that could read and write cassettes
no matter how *you* want to label it.
Wikipedia too eh ?
If you wanted to load and save to disk, you had to boot DOS from a
floppy disk. In the BASIC from there, the same commands, "LOAD" and
"SAVE", would operate on the floppy disk.
But that did use DOS to do that
albeit a very simple one.
Not an OS at all
In fact, it's a TOS, a Tape Operating System.
Nope, JUST a program that could read and write cassettes
It also has a DOS built in and the PC will default to the TOS, and ROM >>>> BASIC, in the absence of floppy disk drives, and *ignore* the DOS.
I noticed I made an error in the segment above, should have written;
"It has a TOS built in to the ROM
Nope, JUST a program that could read and write cassettes
and the PC will default to the TOS, and ROMBASIC in the absence of a
bootable floppy disk".
Anyway, this video clip confirms what I've said thus far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_8CXyF5M1Q
Its no news that the original 5150 had a
cassette interface that no one ever used.
What was built in was never an OS, that was loaded from floppy
PC DOS was loaded from Disk - it *was* a *Disk* Operating System albeit
only for floppy drives in the DOS Rev. 1.x days.
Yes, PC DOS was indeed a disk operating system
ROM Basic for cassettes never was
What was on the ROM version of Cassette BASIC was a TOS
Nope, JUST a program that could read and write to cassette
since it only knew how to handle files on *cassette tape*.
Doesnt make it an OS
FWIW, my first computer only had the TOS in the ROM Basic interpreter.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
A friend added the DOS code to the ROM BASIC interpreter and made it >>>> loadable into RAM.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
Eventually he converted the ROM addressing to RAM and added RAM to the >>>> high memory where the Basic DOS now lived.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
That was all back in the day when you could really *tinker* with
computers, a far cry from my recently purchased Mac Mini M4.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
Thank you for conceding defeat. Most gracious of you!
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassette
On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 20:06:27 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> >> wrote:Makes it TOS!
On 15/7/2025 5:05 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 16:30:02 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>>>>> wrote:
On 15/7/2025 3:12 pm, keithr0 wrote:No point, you don't have a fucking clue
On 15/07/2025 12:26 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 15/7/2025 3:11 am, Rod Speed wrote:The ability to save and load data to a cassette does not constitute >>>>>> an operating system.
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 19:34:12 +1000, Xeno >>>>>>>> <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:
On 14/7/2025 3:25 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 14:31:43 +1000, Xeno
<xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On 14/7/2025 1:11 pm, Xeno wrote:There was no TOS.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wroteIn a machine with no floppy drives, quite likely rom based. If >>>>>>>>>>>> the machin has no floppy drives, any rCLDOSrCY is somewhat >>>>>>>>>>>> redundant.
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno Lith <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
but Msnot won a contract for IBM PC's to ship with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MS-DOS
installed,
In fact they came with PC-DOS and there was nothing for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
to be
installed on with the original PC which didnt even have a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hard drive.
If I recall correctly, most of the IBM PCs came with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Floppy
disks.
In fact all did
No, not all. From Wikipedia
The IBM PC debuted on August 12, 1981, after a twelve-month >>>>>>>>>>>>>> development. Pricing started at $1,565 for a configuration >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with 16 KB RAM, Color Graphics Adapter, keyboard, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *no disk drives*.
Have fun explaining what PC DOS ran on
A quick memory refresh - the cassette tape version of the IBM >>>>>>>>>>> 5150 didn't use a ROM version of PC DOS. Instead, it used a ROM >>>>>>>>>>> based BASIC interpreter, known as Cassette BASIC, which was >>>>>>>>>>> used
for loading and saving programs to cassette tapes. As I
suspected, it was Cassette BASIC that had the TOS.
There was, it was built into the BASIC ROM.
Thats not an OS
As I said, it wasn't a fancy TOS, but it was there.
But was never an OS
No, it was a TOS. Can you not read???>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_cassette_tape
Read what I wrote,
it has a TOS built in,
There never was any TOS jusr the ability to read and write the >>>> cassette
Beg to differ. The ROM BASIC version had the commands "SAVE" and >>> "LOAD".
That doesnt make it an OS
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassetteLike I said you wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard >> arse
They *only* worked on the Cassette tape interface. In Cassette BASIC in
ROM, there were *NO DISK COMMANDS*. Cassette BASIC didn't even know >>> what
a Floppy Disk was. That makes the CASSETTE OS a *TOS*
Wrong, as always/ JUST a program that could read and write cassettes
Makes it TOS!
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassetteno matter how *you* want to label it.
Wikipedia too eh ?
If you wanted to load and save to disk, you had to boot DOS from a
floppy disk. In the BASIC from there, the same commands, "LOAD" and
"SAVE", would operate on the floppy disk.
But that did use DOS to do that
No DOS on Cassette BASIC, it didnrCOt even know what a disk was. It knew > how to save to and load from cassette tape.
Makes it TOS!
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassetteMakes it TOS!albeit a very simple one.
Not an OS at all
In fact, it's a TOS, a Tape Operating System.
Nope, JUST a program that could read and write cassettes
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassetteMakes it TOS!I noticed I made an error in the segment above, should have written;>>It also has a DOS built in and the PC will default to the TOS, and >>>>> ROM
BASIC, in the absence of floppy disk drives, and *ignore* the DOS.>>
"It has a TOS built in to the ROM
Nope, JUST a program that could read and write cassettes
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassetteMakes it TOS!and the PC will default to the TOS, and ROMBASIC in the absence of a
bootable floppy disk".
Anyway, this video clip confirms what I've said thus far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_8CXyF5M1Q
Its no news that the original 5150 had a
cassette interface that no one ever used.
What was built in was never an OS, that was loaded from floppy
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassetteNo, I was never a DOS. It makes it a TOS!PC DOS was loaded from Disk - it *was* a *Disk* Operating System albeit
only for floppy drives in the DOS Rev. 1.x days.
Yes, PC DOS was indeed a disk operating system
ROM Basic for cassettes never was
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassetteWhat was on the ROM version of Cassette BASIC was a TOS
Nope, JUST a program that could read and write to cassette
since it only knew how to handle files on *cassette tape*.
Doesnt make it an OS
Makes it TOS!
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bagThanks again for conceding.FWIW, my first computer only had the TOS in the ROM Basic >>>>> interpreter.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
A friend added the DOS code to the ROM BASIC interpreter and made it >>>>> loadable into RAM.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
Eventually he converted the ROM addressing to RAM and added RAM to >>>>> the
high memory where the Basic DOS now lived.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
That was all back in the day when you could really *tinker* with
computers, a far cry from my recently purchased Mac Mini M4.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
Thank you for conceding defeat. Most gracious of you!
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
On Wed, 16 Jul 2025 11:17:21 +1000, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
No point, you don't have a fucking clueNo, it was a TOS. Can you not read???>The ability to save and load data to a cassette does not constitute >>>>>>> an operating system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_cassette_tape
Read what I wrote,
it has a TOS built in,
There never was any TOS jusr the ability to read and write the
cassette
Beg to differ. The ROM BASIC version had the commands "SAVE" and
"LOAD".
That doesnt make it an OS
Makes it-a TOS!
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassette
Its not a TOS because it can't load other
programs from the cassette and run them
Like I said you wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your
lard arse
They *only* worked on the Cassette tape interface. In Cassette BASIC in >>>> ROM, there were *NO DISK COMMANDS*. Cassette BASIC didn't even know
what
a Floppy Disk was. That makes the CASSETTE OS a *TOS*
Wrong, as always/ JUST a program that could read and write cassettes
Makes it-a TOS!
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassette
Its not a TOS because it can't load other
programs from the cassette and run them
no matter how-a *you* want to label it.
Wikipedia too eh ?
If you wanted to load and save to disk, you had to boot DOS from a
floppy disk. In the BASIC from there, the same commands, "LOAD" and
"SAVE", would operate on the floppy disk.
But that did use DOS to do that
No DOS on Cassette BASIC, it didnrCOt even know what a disk was. It knew
how-a to save to and load from cassette tape.
Makes it-a TOS!
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassette
Its not a TOS because it can't load other
programs from the cassette and run them
albeit a very simple one.
Not an OS at all
In fact, it's a TOS, a Tape Operating System.
Nope, JUST a program that could read and write cassettes
Makes it-a TOS!
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassette
Its not a TOS because it can't load other
programs from the cassette and run them
It also has a DOS built in and the PC will default to the TOS, and >>>>>> ROM
BASIC, in the absence of floppy disk drives, and *ignore* the DOS.
I noticed I made an error in the segment above, should have written;
"It has a TOS built in to the ROM
Nope, JUST a program that could read and write cassettes
Makes it-a TOS!
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassette
Its not a TOS because it can't load other
programs from the cassette and run them
and the PC will default to the TOS,-a and ROMBASIC in the absence of a >>>> bootable floppy disk".
Anyway, this video clip confirms what I've said thus far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_8CXyF5M1Q
Its no news that the original 5150 had a
cassette interface that no one ever used.
What was built in was never an OS, that was loaded from floppy
Makes it-a TOS!
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassette
Its not a TOS because it can't load other
programs from the cassette and run them
PC DOS was loaded from Disk - it *was* a *Disk* Operating System albeit >>>> only for floppy drives in the DOS Rev. 1.x days.
Yes, PC DOS was indeed a disk operating system
ROM Basic for cassettes never was
No, I was never a DOS. It makes it-a a TOS!
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassette
Its not a TOS because it can't load other
programs from the cassette and run them
What was on the ROM version of Cassette BASIC was a TOS
Nope, JUST a program that could read and write to cassette
since it only-a knew how to handle files on *cassette tape*.
Doesnt make it an OS
Makes it-a TOS!
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassette
Its not a TOS because it can't load other
programs from the cassette and run them
--Thanks again for conceding.FWIW, my first computer only had the TOS in the ROM Basic
interpreter.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
A friend added the DOS code to the ROM BASIC interpreter and made it >>>>>> loadable into RAM.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
Eventually he converted the ROM addressing to RAM and added RAM to >>>>>> the
high memory where the Basic DOS now lived.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
That was all back in the day when you could really *tinker* with
computers, a far cry from my recently purchased Mac Mini M4.
You wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse
Thank you for conceding defeat. Most gracious of you!
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
<snipped repetitious Rodshit>
No, it was a TOS. Can you not read???>
The ability to save and load data to a cassettedoes not
constitute an operating system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_cassette_tape
Read what I wrote,
No point, you don't have a fucking clue
it has a TOS built in,
There never was any TOS jusr theability to read and write the
cassette
Beg to differ. The ROM BASIC version hadthe commands "SAVE" and
"LOAD".
That doesnt make it an OS
Makes it TOS!
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write tothe cassette Its
not a TOS because it can't loadother programs from the cassette and
run them
It loads and saves BASIC programs to tape.
It's qualified.
Like I said you wouldnt know what anOS was if it bit you on your
lard arse
They *only* worked on the Cassette tape interface.In Cassette BASIC >>>>> in ROM, there were *NO DISKCOMMANDS*. Cassette BASIC didn't even
know whata Floppy Disk was. That makes the CASSETTE OS a *TOS*
Wrong, as always/ JUST a program that could read and write cassettes
Makes it TOS!
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassette
Its not a TOS because it can't load other
programs from the cassette and run them
It loads and saves BASIC programs to tape.
It's qualified.
no matter how *you* want to label it.
Wikipedia too eh ?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2Thank you for conceding defeat. Most gracious of you!
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
Thanks again for conceding.
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
<snipped repetitious Rodshit>
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
No, it was a TOS. Can you not read???>
The ability to save and load data to a cassettedoes not
constitute an operating system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_cassette_tape
Read what I wrote,
No point, you don't have a fucking clue
it has a TOS built in,
There never was any TOS jusr theability to read and write the
cassette
Beg to differ. The ROM BASIC version hadthe commands "SAVE" and
"LOAD".
That doesnt make it an OS
Makes it-a TOS!
-aNope, just basic in rom that can read and write tothe cassette-a Its
not a TOS because it can't loadother-a programs from the cassette and
run them
It loads and saves BASIC programs to tape.
That's not OTHER PROGRAMS
And it doesnt even run basic programs, it interprets them
It's qualified.
Wrong, as always. And IBM never ever called it a TOS, JIST
basic in rom that could read and write stuff to cassette
Like I said you wouldnt know what anOS-a was if it bit you on your
lard arse
And since it was the only form of built in I/O to save and load data,They *only* worked on the Cassette tape interface.In Cassette
BASIC-a in-a ROM, there were *NO DISKCOMMANDS*. Cassette BASIC
didn't even know-a whata Floppy Disk was. That makes the CASSETTE >>>>>> OS a *TOS*
Wrong, as always/ JUST a program that could read and write cassettes
Makes it-a TOS!
-aNope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassette
-aIts not a TOS because it can't load other
programs from the cassette and run them
It loads and saves BASIC programs to tape.
That's not OTHER PROGRAMS
And it doesnt even run basic programs, it interprets them
It's qualified.
Nope, and IBM never called it a TOS, JUST basic
in rom that could read and write to cassette
Thanks again for conceding.no matter how-a *you* want to label it.
Wikipedia too eh ?
IBM tpp, eh ?
<reams of your stupid pig ignorant repetition flushed where it belongs>
Thank you for conceding defeat. Most gracious of you!
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
Thanks again for conceding.
-aYou never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
<snipped repetitious Rodshit>You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
I appreciate your generous concession!
No, it was a TOS. Can you not read???>
The ability to save and load data to a cassettedoes not >>>>>>>>>> constitute an operating system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_cassette_tape
Read what I wrote,
No point, you don't have a fucking clue
it has a TOS built in,
There never was any TOS jusr the ability to read and write the >>>>>>>> cassette
Beg to differ. The ROM BASIC version had the commands "SAVE" and >>>>>>> "LOAD".
That doesnt make it an OS
Makes it TOS!
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write tothe cassette Its >>>> not a TOS because it can't load other programs from the cassette and >>>> run them
It loads and saves BASIC programs to tape.
That's not OTHER PROGRAMS
It's *programs*.
And it doesnt even run basic programs, it interprets them
Yeah, funny that! Maybe that's why it's called a *BASIC Interpreter* eh?
It's qualified.
Wrong, as always. And IBM never ever called it a TOS, JIST
basic in rom that could read and write stuff to cassette
But they called the program in ROM "CASSETTE BASIC".
So IBM was well aware of the TOS loading and saving to *cassette tape*
so it's a TOS.
Like I said you wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your >>>>>> lard arse
BTW, what's an an OS?
They *only* worked on the Cassette tape interface.In Cassette
BASIC in ROM, there were *NO DISKCOMMANDS*. Cassette BASIC
didn't even know whata Floppy Disk was. That makes the CASSETTE >>>>>>> OS a *TOS*
Wrong, as always/ JUST a program that could read and write cassettes
Makes it TOS!
Nope, just basic in rom that can read and write to the cassette
And since it was the only form of built in I/O to save and load data,
it's a TOS.
Its not a TOS because it can't load other
programs from the cassette and run them
It loads and saves BASIC programs to tape.
That's not OTHER PROGRAMS
Other BASIC programs>
And it doesnt even run basic programs, it interprets them
Yeah, funny that! Maybe that's why it's called a *BASIC Interpreter* eh?
so it's a TOS.
Wrong as always and IBM never said it was
It's qualified.
Nope, and IBM never called it a TOS, JUST basic
in rom that could read and write to cassette
And since it was the only form of built in I/O to save and load data,
it's a TOS.
no matter how *you* want to label it.
Wikipedia too eh ?
IBM tpo, eh ?
<reams of your stupid pig ignorant repetition flushed where it belongs>
Thank you for conceding defeat. Most gracious of you!
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
Thanks again for conceding.
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
Thanks again for conceding.
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote-aIrrelevant to your terminal stupidity about me not being there
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
DCR was-a one hell of a flaky place, couldn't decide whether >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was-a a-a government-a service bureau or a research site. >>>>>Hardly surprising given what CSIRO was about and given >>>>>>>>>>>>> the even earlier computer research there and the need to >>>>>>>>>>>>> provide computers to the organisation and others later
Undocumented changes to the operating system made on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fly, the government departments forced to use it, hated it. >>>>>-aBullshit
No bullshit,
Complete bullshit with the last bit
Nope,
-aYep
-aNope
these were people that I worked with.
-aBut you are just another fuckwit pom
DCR viewed their customers-a (who had no choice aboutusing DCR >>>>>>>>>> as a bureau at the time) basically as
-aBecause there wasnt anything else in Canberra to use as a >>>>>>>>> bureau, fuckwit pom
There was ABS.
-aWhich wasnt free for govt departments at that time
a test load.
-aBullshit on bullshit on bullshit
They were difficult people to deal with.
-aBullshit on bullshit on bullshit
Since you weren't there,
-aI was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
-aI was working for the ANU
On one occasion, the 3600 went down while I was the only CDC >>>>>>>>>> personon-a site, I fixed it and told the operators that they >>>>>>>>>> could bring it back on line. Next thing I knew one of the >>>>>>>>>> scientists came round demanding to know why the machine was >>>>>>>>>> back up. I told him that it was because I had fixed it. "How >>>>>>>>>> do you know it is fixed" he asked, my answer was "It was
broken before, but now it's working" he didn't seem
particularly satisfied so I offered to give him the bad board >>>>>>>>>> and he could test it if he wished. He wasn't happy but went >>>>>>>>>> away anyway, and the 3600 continued to work just fine.
-aJust because some fuckwit was a fuckwit...
CDC had a sales guy just for DCR, they would speak to him >>>>>>>>>> because he had a PhD, they didn't want to know lesser people.
-aHow odd that they employed plenty of those
I was actually there and saw what went on.
So was I and know that that last bit is complete bullshit
So you were at the Black Mountain site?
-aNops
Then you weren't actually there,
-aI was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
-aI was working for the ANU and used both the ANU IBM
360/50 and the DCR CDC 3600 at that time and ran the
ANU IBM 360/50 personally myself in the evenings
The mighty 360/50, it ended up as a controller for IBM cheque
sorters, about as powerful as the laptop that I'm writing this on, >>>>>> the 3600 was a much more powerful machine.
You have admitted that you weren't at DCR.-aI was however at the ANU and used DCR daily
OK, you used the DCR through the network,
No I didnt when I was working for the ANU
but were you ever physically on site on a regular basis?
Wrong, as always
Anyway the academics at ANU pretty well despised
IBM gear, they were-a Unisys people.
-aMore mindless pig ignorant bullshit.
Not according to the people that I knew there.
I worked there, fuckwit
BTW, in the later models of the IBM 3890 cheque sorter, they
replaced the 360/50 with a PS2 PC, it ran faster, and was reliable too. >>> -aIrrelevant to your stupid lie about me not being there
By your own admission, you weren't
Wrong, as always
and have no idea what it was like there.
-aWrong, as always
you haven't changed in 30 years, you'll never admin that you're
wrong,
-aWe all swooned when you just admitted that you are wrong, as always
Pathetic even for you.
-aYes you are
You're loosing it Speed, you used to be able to do better than that.
Pathetic even for you.
just bluster until the other party loses interest.
-aWe can see you doing just that in this steaming turd alone
The steaming turd is all yours as usual roddles.
-aPathetic even for you.
Alt-F3?
Nope, dope
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wroteNo I didnt when I was working for the ANU
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wroteIrrelevant to your terminal stupidity about me not being there
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
DCR was one hell of a flaky place, couldn't decide whether >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was a government service bureau or a research site. >>>>>>Hardly surprising given what CSIRO was about and given >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the even earlier computer research there and the need to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide computers to the organisation and others later
Undocumented changes to the operating system made on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fly, the government departments forced to use it, hated it. >>>>>>Bullshit
No bullshit,
Complete bullshit with the last bit
Nope,
Yep
Nope
these were people that I worked with.
But you are just another fuckwit pom
DCR viewed their customers (who had no choice aboutusing DCR >>>>>>>>>>> as a bureau at the time) basically as
Because there wasnt anything else in Canberra to use as a >>>>>>>>>> bureau, fuckwit pom
There was ABS.
Which wasnt free for govt departments at that time
a test load.
Bullshit on bullshit on bullshit
They were difficult people to deal with.
Bullshit on bullshit on bullshit
Since you weren't there,
I was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
I was working for the ANU
On one occasion, the 3600 went down while I was the only CDC >>>>>>>>>>> personon site, I fixed it and told the operators that they >>>>>>>>>>> could bring it back on line. Next thing I knew one of the >>>>>>>>>>> scientists came round demanding to know why the machine was >>>>>>>>>>> back up. I told him that it was because I had fixed it. "How >>>>>>>>>>> do you know it is fixed" he asked, my answer was "It was >>>>>>>>>>> broken before, but now it's working" he didn't seem
particularly satisfied so I offered to give him the bad board >>>>>>>>>>> and he could test it if he wished. He wasn't happy but went >>>>>>>>>>> away anyway, and the 3600 continued to work just fine.
Just because some fuckwit was a fuckwit...
CDC had a sales guy just for DCR, they would speak to him >>>>>>>>>>> because he had a PhD, they didn't want to know lesser people. >>>>>>How odd that they employed plenty of those
I was actually there and saw what went on.
So was I and know that that last bit is complete bullshit
So you were at the Black Mountain site?
Nops
Then you weren't actually there,
I was in fact there, but not working for DCR at that time
I was working for the ANU and used both the ANU IBM
360/50 and the DCR CDC 3600 at that time and ran the
ANU IBM 360/50 personally myself in the evenings
The mighty 360/50, it ended up as a controller for IBM cheque
sorters, about as powerful as the laptop that I'm writing this on, >>>>>>> the 3600 was a much more powerful machine.
You have admitted that you weren't at DCR.I was however at the ANU and used DCR daily
OK, you used the DCR through the network,
but were you ever physically on site on a regular basis?
Wrong, as always
That's not an answer to the question, were you or were you not
physically present at the DCR site at Black mountain on a regular basis?
Anyway the academics at ANU pretty well despised
IBM gear, they were Unisys people.
More mindless pig ignorant bullshit.
Not according to the people that I knew there.
I worked there, fuckwit
So did I from time to time.
BTW, in the later models of the IBM 3890 cheque sorter, they
replaced the 360/50 with a PS2 PC, it ran faster, and was reliable >>>>> too.
Irrelevant to your stupid lie about me not being there
By your own admission, you weren't
Wrong, as always
and have no idea what it was like there.
Wrong, as always
you haven't changed in 30 years, you'll never admin that you're >>>>>>> wrong,
We all swooned when you just admitted that you are wrong, as always >>>>Pathetic even for you.
Yes you are
You're loosing it Speed, you used to be able to do better than that.
Pathetic even for you.
QED
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2Nope, dopejust bluster until the other party loses interest.
We can see you doing just that in this steaming turd alone
The steaming turd is all yours as usual roddles.
Pathetic even for you.
Alt-F3?
Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
<snipped repetitious Rodshit>-aYou never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
I appreciate your generous concession!
You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag
No, it was a TOS. Can you not read???>
The ability to save and load data to a cassettedoes not >>>>>>>>>>> constitute an operating system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_cassette_tape
Read what I wrote,
No point, you don't have a fucking clue
it has a TOS built in,
There never was any TOS jusr the ability to read and write the >>>>>>>>> cassette
Beg to differ. The ROM BASIC version had the commands "SAVE"
and-a "LOAD".
That doesnt make it an OS
Makes it-a TOS!
-aNope, just basic in rom that can read and write tothe cassette
Its not a TOS because it can't load other-a programs from the
cassette and run them
It loads and saves BASIC programs to tape.
-aThat's not OTHER PROGRAMS
It's *programs*.
A real TOS would be able to load any program
And it doesnt even run basic programs, it interprets them
Yeah, funny that! Maybe that's why it's called a *BASIC Interpreter* eh?
But clearly doesnt LOAD them, you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist
It's qualified.
-aWrong, as always. And IBM never ever called it a TOS, JIST
basic in rom that could read and write stuff to cassette
But they called the program in ROM "CASSETTE BASIC".
But NEVER called it a TOS
So IBM was well-a aware of the TOS loading and saving to *cassette tape*
No loading involved, JUST interpreting
Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
None of the shit spewed by some fool too stupid
to work out that a PROGRAM that can read and
write to a cassette is nothing even remotely like
an operating system or even read and compehend
the wikipedia page on OSs worth bothering with.
All your shit flushed where it belongs
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
None of the shit spewed by some fool too stupid
to work out that a PROGRAM that can read and
write to a cassette is nothing even remotely like
an operating system or even read and compehend
the wikipedia page on OSs worth bothering with.
All your shit flushed where it belongs
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
None of the shit spewed by some fool too stupid
to work out that a PROGRAM that can read and
write to a cassette is nothing even remotely like
an operating system or even read and compehend
the wikipedia page on OSs worth bothering with.
All your shit flushed where it belongs
Wow! A real Rodenraged loser! Well worth seeing!