From Newsgroup: aus.cars

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules, and
seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit, and
decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an adjustment for
roads on a slope, and then calculating how long the vehicle would take
to reach the stop line if the driver decides to proceed instead of
stopping. A second is added to allow for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line, but
can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is less than
a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross the stop line
when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not
understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have to
put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Sylvia.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 23/7/2025 4:23 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/ rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules, and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit, and decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an adjustment for roads on a slope, and then calculating how long the vehicle would take
to reach the stop line if the driver decides to proceed instead of
stopping. A second is added to allow for reacting time.

Its a lot more complicated than that, a sports car with high performance
tyres will stop in a much shorter distance than a loaded light
commercial vehicle on light truck tyres, heavy trucks will take longer
again so do they average the stopping distance of all the various
vehicle types?
I know from experience that in most cases its impossible to stop even a lightly loaded semi traveling at below the speed limit in the distance
allowed after a light turns amber.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line, but
can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is less than
a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross the stop line
when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not
understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have to
put up with such regulatory nonsense?

There are thousands of rules/laws that often don't make a lot of sense,
the question should be does the rule cause accidents and or do a lot of drivers get fined for not following the letter of the law?
If the answer to both of the above is no then just forget about it and
more on.
In more than 50 years of driving I've never been fined or even
questioned for not stopping at an amber light and I've proceeded through hundreds of them.
--
Daryl
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 23/7/2025 4:23 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/ rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules, and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit, and decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an adjustment for roads on a slope, and then calculating how long the vehicle would take
to reach the stop line if the driver decides to proceed instead of
stopping. A second is added to allow for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line, but
can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is less than
a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross the stop line
when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not
understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have to
put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Sylvia.

The term in general use is, "Revenue Raising".
--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 23-July-25 5:55 pm, Xeno wrote:

On 23/7/2025 4:23 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

See
https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/
rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules,
and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining
the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit, and
decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an adjustment
for roads on a slope, and then calculating how long the vehicle would
take to reach the stop line if the driver decides to proceed instead
of stopping. A second is added to allow for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line, but
can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is less
than a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross the stop
line when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not
understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have to
put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Sylvia.

The term in general use is, "Revenue Raising".

It could have the opposite effect. If someone misjudges stopping before
the stop line, and gets caught by a red light camera, they can claim to
have been complying with the intersection rule. The Road Rules are not statutes created by parliament, but regulations made under a regulation
making power. There is a good argument that that power does not extent
to making regulations that are physically impossible to comply with.

Sylvia.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules, and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit, and decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an adjustment for roads on a slope, and then calculating how long the vehicle would take
to reach the stop line if the driver decides to proceed instead of stopping. A second is added to allow for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line, but
can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is less than
a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross the stop line
when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have to
put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Because that's the law, fuckwit

You are free to try to get the High Court to change it
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

Sylvia Else wrote:

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules, and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit, and decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an adjustment for

Um, 3 m/s is a speed, not a deceleration. What moron wrote that rule?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 23/07/2025 4:23 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/ rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules, and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit, and decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an adjustment for roads on a slope, and then calculating how long the vehicle would take
to reach the stop line if the driver decides to proceed instead of
stopping. A second is added to allow for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line, but
can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is less than
a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross the stop line
when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not
understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have to
put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Sylvia.

**On a (barely) related matter. Back in the early 1970s, a mate's mum
was driving her HR Holden. The lights turned amber, she put her foot
down and halfway through the intersection, the lights turned red. As it happens, a couple of cops were behind her. They pulled her over and
booked her for running a red. After receiving her ticket, she drove off.
The cops followed her. Another intersection. The lights turned amber.
She stomped on the brakes. Yep, you guessed it: The cops rear-ended her.
They tore up the first ticket.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 24-July-25 5:14 am, Ozix wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:

See
https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules,
and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining
the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit, and
decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an adjustment for

Um, 3 m/s is a speed, not a deceleration. What moron wrote that rule?

In this instance, me. It should of course have been 3m/s/s.

Sylvia.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 24/7/2025 8:16 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 23/07/2025 4:23 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/
consol_reg/ rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules,
and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining
the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit, and
decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an adjustment
for roads on a slope, and then calculating how long the vehicle would
take to reach the stop line if the driver decides to proceed instead
of stopping. A second is added to allow for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line, but
can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is less
than a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross the stop
line when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not
understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have to
put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Sylvia.

**On a (barely) related matter. Back in the early 1970s, a mate's mum
was driving her HR Holden. The lights turned amber, she put her foot
down and halfway through the intersection, the lights turned red. As it happens, a couple of cops were behind her. They pulled her over and
booked her for running a red. After receiving her ticket, she drove off.
The cops followed her. Another intersection. The lights turned amber.
She stomped on the brakes. Yep, you guessed it: The cops rear-ended her. They tore up the first ticket.

LOL, great story:-)
--
Daryl
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 24/07/2025 1:24 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 8:16 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 23/07/2025 4:23 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/
consol_reg/ rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules,
and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining
the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit, and
decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an adjustment
for roads on a slope, and then calculating how long the vehicle would
take to reach the stop line if the driver decides to proceed instead
of stopping. A second is added to allow for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line,
but can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is
less than a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross the
stop line when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not
understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have to
put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Sylvia.

**On a (barely) related matter. Back in the early 1970s, a mate's mum
was driving her HR Holden. The lights turned amber, she put her foot
down and halfway through the intersection, the lights turned red. As
it happens, a couple of cops were behind her. They pulled her over and
booked her for running a red. After receiving her ticket, she drove
off. The cops followed her. Another intersection. The lights turned
amber. She stomped on the brakes. Yep, you guessed it: The cops rear-
ended her. They tore up the first ticket.

LOL, great story:-)

**Her son (my school mate) bought his first car. A Mini panel van,
fitted with twin SUs. His mum thought that was a nice little car for
him. Turns out his Mini was a bit of a rocket ship (for the time). The
only reason to cops managed to catch up with him, is because he didn't
realise they were chasing him and he slowed down for the 35mph suburban
speed limit. Otherwise, he could easily outrun a Falca-Holden six of the
time. We used to laugh when I asked how fast he was going. His answer:
"Oil light".
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 24/7/2025 2:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 24/07/2025 1:24 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 8:16 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 23/07/2025 4:23 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/
consol_reg/ rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules,
and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining
the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit,
and decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an
adjustment for roads on a slope, and then calculating how long the
vehicle would take to reach the stop line if the driver decides to
proceed instead of stopping. A second is added to allow for reacting
time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line,
but can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is
less than a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross
the stop line when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not
understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have
to put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Sylvia.

**On a (barely) related matter. Back in the early 1970s, a mate's mum
was driving her HR Holden. The lights turned amber, she put her foot
down and halfway through the intersection, the lights turned red. As
it happens, a couple of cops were behind her. They pulled her over
and booked her for running a red. After receiving her ticket, she
drove off. The cops followed her. Another intersection. The lights
turned amber. She stomped on the brakes. Yep, you guessed it: The
cops rear- ended her. They tore up the first ticket.

LOL, great story:-)

**Her son (my school mate) bought his first car. A Mini panel van,
fitted with twin SUs. His mum thought that was a nice little car for
him. Turns out his Mini was a bit of a rocket ship (for the time). The
only reason to cops managed to catch up with him, is because he didn't realise they were chasing him and he slowed down for the 35mph suburban speed limit. Otherwise, he could easily outrun a Falca-Holden six of the time. We used to laugh when I asked how fast he was going. His answer:
"Oil light".

Having driven numerous Mini's I actually get what he meant:-)
Speedometers on 70's car were generally very optimistic, I remember
seeing the speedo on the mates Mk2 Cooper S showing about 120mph on
Geelong Road, felt rather fast:-)
No other car can put a smile on your face easier than an original Mini.
--
Daryl
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 24/07/2025 10:10 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 2:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

**Her son (my school mate) bought his first car. A Mini panel van,
fitted with twin SUs. His mum thought that was a nice little car for
him. Turns out his Mini was a bit of a rocket ship (for the time). The
only reason to cops managed to catch up with him, is because he didn't
realise they were chasing him and he slowed down for the 35mph
suburban speed limit. Otherwise, he could easily outrun a Falca-Holden
six of the time. We used to laugh when I asked how fast he was going.
His answer: "Oil light".

Having driven numerous Mini's I actually get what he meant:-)
Speedometers on 70's car were generally very optimistic, I remember
seeing the speedo on the mates Mk2 Cooper S showing about 120mph on
Geelong Road, felt rather fast:-)
No other car can put a smile on your face easier than an original Mini.

Absolutely. They were awesome, and I'd happily bet the farm that they'd
be just as much fun today.
--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 24/07/2025 10:10 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 2:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 24/07/2025 1:24 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 8:16 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 23/07/2025 4:23 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/
consol_reg/ rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road
Rules, and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first
determining the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the
speed limit, and decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and
with an adjustment for roads on a slope, and then calculating how
long the vehicle would take to reach the stop line if the driver
decides to proceed instead of stopping. A second is added to allow
for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line,
but can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is
less than a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross
the stop line when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not
understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have
to put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Sylvia.

**On a (barely) related matter. Back in the early 1970s, a mate's
mum was driving her HR Holden. The lights turned amber, she put her
foot down and halfway through the intersection, the lights turned
red. As it happens, a couple of cops were behind her. They pulled
her over and booked her for running a red. After receiving her
ticket, she drove off. The cops followed her. Another intersection.
The lights turned amber. She stomped on the brakes. Yep, you guessed
it: The cops rear- ended her. They tore up the first ticket.

LOL, great story:-)

**Her son (my school mate) bought his first car. A Mini panel van,
fitted with twin SUs. His mum thought that was a nice little car for
him. Turns out his Mini was a bit of a rocket ship (for the time). The
only reason to cops managed to catch up with him, is because he didn't
realise they were chasing him and he slowed down for the 35mph
suburban speed limit. Otherwise, he could easily outrun a Falca-Holden
six of the time. We used to laugh when I asked how fast he was going.
His answer: "Oil light".

Having driven numerous Mini's I actually get what he meant:-)
Speedometers on 70's car were generally very optimistic, I remember
seeing the speedo on the mates Mk2 Cooper S showing about 120mph on
Geelong Road, felt rather fast:-)
No other car can put a smile on your face easier than an original Mini.

**Or a frown, when the distributor got wet. Still, another mate had a
Mini with twin Webers. I loved the induction noise. As for the
optimistic speedos, I'm not sure. The Mini speedo was a Smiths
instrument of a large size. I had always assumed it was a quality
device, as opposed to ANYTHING from the Lucas factory.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 25/7/2025 8:10 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 24/07/2025 10:10 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 2:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 24/07/2025 1:24 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 8:16 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 23/07/2025 4:23 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/
consol_reg/ rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road
Rules, and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first
determining the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the
speed limit, and decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and >>>>>> with an adjustment for roads on a slope, and then calculating how >>>>>> long the vehicle would take to reach the stop line if the driver
decides to proceed instead of stopping. A second is added to allow >>>>>> for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line, >>>>>> but can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is >>>>>> less than a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross >>>>>> the stop line when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going >>>>>> through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not >>>>>> understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have >>>>>> to put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Sylvia.

**On a (barely) related matter. Back in the early 1970s, a mate's
mum was driving her HR Holden. The lights turned amber, she put her >>>>> foot down and halfway through the intersection, the lights turned
red. As it happens, a couple of cops were behind her. They pulled
her over and booked her for running a red. After receiving her
ticket, she drove off. The cops followed her. Another intersection. >>>>> The lights turned amber. She stomped on the brakes. Yep, you
guessed it: The cops rear- ended her. They tore up the first ticket. >>>>>

LOL, great story:-)

**Her son (my school mate) bought his first car. A Mini panel van,
fitted with twin SUs. His mum thought that was a nice little car for
him. Turns out his Mini was a bit of a rocket ship (for the time).
The only reason to cops managed to catch up with him, is because he
didn't realise they were chasing him and he slowed down for the 35mph
suburban speed limit. Otherwise, he could easily outrun a Falca-
Holden six of the time. We used to laugh when I asked how fast he was
going. His answer: "Oil light".

Having driven numerous Mini's I actually get what he meant:-)
Speedometers on 70's car were generally very optimistic, I remember
seeing the speedo on the mates Mk2 Cooper S showing about 120mph on
Geelong Road, felt rather fast:-)

Doubt it was showing 120 mph. The Mk II Cooper S couldn't do that speed,
not even close. In a Mini, even 100 mph will feel incredibly fast since
your arse is so close to the ground. That said, Cop Holdens and Falcons
of that era were lucky to be able to do 95 mph.

No other car can put a smile on your face easier than an original Mini.

**Or a frown, when the distributor got wet. Still, another mate had a

Had that with my 850. Wasn't helped by a crack in the cap. New cap and a rubber gaiter sorted that one out.

Mini with twin Webers. I loved the induction noise. As for the
optimistic speedos, I'm not sure. The Mini speedo was a Smiths
instrument of a large size. I had always assumed it was a quality
device, as opposed to ANYTHING from the Lucas factory.

Afraid Daryl is spot on re. speedo optimism. The stock Mk I & II Cooper
S variants were only able to just nudge 100 mph (160 kph) in stock trim.
The later Clubman GT seemed a little detuned by comparison and mine
would *show* 105 mph on the speedo but was probably only doing 95 - 100
mph. My mate's MK I Cooper S was only good for a timed 100 mph.He
eventually blew that up and bought a brand new 4 door Monaro in 74??
--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 25/07/2025 8:10 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 24/07/2025 10:10 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 2:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 24/07/2025 1:24 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 8:16 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 23/07/2025 4:23 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/
consol_reg/ rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road
Rules, and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first
determining the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the
speed limit, and decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and >>>>>> with an adjustment for roads on a slope, and then calculating how >>>>>> long the vehicle would take to reach the stop line if the driver
decides to proceed instead of stopping. A second is added to allow >>>>>> for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line, >>>>>> but can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is >>>>>> less than a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross >>>>>> the stop line when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going >>>>>> through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not >>>>>> understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have >>>>>> to put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Sylvia.

**On a (barely) related matter. Back in the early 1970s, a mate's
mum was driving her HR Holden. The lights turned amber, she put her >>>>> foot down and halfway through the intersection, the lights turned
red. As it happens, a couple of cops were behind her. They pulled
her over and booked her for running a red. After receiving her
ticket, she drove off. The cops followed her. Another intersection. >>>>> The lights turned amber. She stomped on the brakes. Yep, you
guessed it: The cops rear- ended her. They tore up the first ticket. >>>>>

LOL, great story:-)

**Her son (my school mate) bought his first car. A Mini panel van,
fitted with twin SUs. His mum thought that was a nice little car for
him. Turns out his Mini was a bit of a rocket ship (for the time).
The only reason to cops managed to catch up with him, is because he
didn't realise they were chasing him and he slowed down for the 35mph
suburban speed limit. Otherwise, he could easily outrun a Falca-
Holden six of the time. We used to laugh when I asked how fast he was
going. His answer: "Oil light".

Having driven numerous Mini's I actually get what he meant:-)
Speedometers on 70's car were generally very optimistic, I remember
seeing the speedo on the mates Mk2 Cooper S showing about 120mph on
Geelong Road, felt rather fast:-)
No other car can put a smile on your face easier than an original Mini.

**Or a frown, when the distributor got wet.

I once hit a small puddle doing about 60mph in a Mk1 Mini, the thing
missed and farted for the next 10 miles and wouldn't go over 40mph.

Still, another mate had a
Mini with twin Webers. I loved the induction noise. As for the
optimistic speedos, I'm not sure. The Mini speedo was a Smiths
instrument of a large size. I had always assumed it was a quality
device, as opposed to ANYTHING from the Lucas factory.

A garage in the town where I lived specialised in tuning Mk1s (before
the days of the Cooper S). His special was twin Webbers on a tuned
manifold, he had to cut a hole in the firewall to fit them, and relocate
the speedo.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 24/07/2025 10:10 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 2:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 24/07/2025 1:24 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 8:16 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 23/07/2025 4:23 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/
consol_reg/ rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road
Rules, and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first
determining the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the
speed limit, and decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and
with an adjustment for roads on a slope, and then calculating how
long the vehicle would take to reach the stop line if the driver
decides to proceed instead of stopping. A second is added to allow
for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line,
but can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is
less than a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross
the stop line when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not
understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have
to put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Sylvia.

**On a (barely) related matter. Back in the early 1970s, a mate's
mum was driving her HR Holden. The lights turned amber, she put her
foot down and halfway through the intersection, the lights turned
red. As it happens, a couple of cops were behind her. They pulled
her over and booked her for running a red. After receiving her
ticket, she drove off. The cops followed her. Another intersection.
The lights turned amber. She stomped on the brakes. Yep, you guessed
it: The cops rear- ended her. They tore up the first ticket.

LOL, great story:-)

**Her son (my school mate) bought his first car. A Mini panel van,
fitted with twin SUs. His mum thought that was a nice little car for
him. Turns out his Mini was a bit of a rocket ship (for the time). The
only reason to cops managed to catch up with him, is because he didn't
realise they were chasing him and he slowed down for the 35mph
suburban speed limit. Otherwise, he could easily outrun a Falca-Holden
six of the time. We used to laugh when I asked how fast he was going.
His answer: "Oil light".

Having driven numerous Mini's I actually get what he meant:-)
Speedometers on 70's car were generally very optimistic, I remember
seeing the speedo on the mates Mk2 Cooper S showing about 120mph on
Geelong Road, felt rather fast:-)
No other car can put a smile on your face easier than an original Mini.

I had a Moke when I worked in Canberra (and a sheepskin coat), I used to
go out of my way on the way to work just to drive the windy road around
the lake it was that much fun.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 25/7/2025 8:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:

On 25/07/2025 8:10 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 24/07/2025 10:10 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 2:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 24/07/2025 1:24 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 8:16 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 23/07/2025 4:23 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/
consol_reg/ rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road
Rules, and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first
determining the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the >>>>>>> speed limit, and decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level,
and with an adjustment for roads on a slope, and then calculating >>>>>>> how long the vehicle would take to reach the stop line if the
driver decides to proceed instead of stopping. A second is added >>>>>>> to allow for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop
line, but can stop before the intersection, and if the extra
distance is less than a quarter of the stopping distance, then
you will cross the stop line when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the >>>>>>> position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going >>>>>>> through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not >>>>>>> understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we
have to put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Sylvia.

**On a (barely) related matter. Back in the early 1970s, a mate's >>>>>> mum was driving her HR Holden. The lights turned amber, she put
her foot down and halfway through the intersection, the lights
turned red. As it happens, a couple of cops were behind her. They >>>>>> pulled her over and booked her for running a red. After receiving >>>>>> her ticket, she drove off. The cops followed her. Another
intersection. The lights turned amber. She stomped on the brakes. >>>>>> Yep, you guessed it: The cops rear- ended her. They tore up the
first ticket.

LOL, great story:-)

**Her son (my school mate) bought his first car. A Mini panel van,
fitted with twin SUs. His mum thought that was a nice little car for
him. Turns out his Mini was a bit of a rocket ship (for the time).
The only reason to cops managed to catch up with him, is because he
didn't realise they were chasing him and he slowed down for the
35mph suburban speed limit. Otherwise, he could easily outrun a
Falca- Holden six of the time. We used to laugh when I asked how
fast he was going. His answer: "Oil light".

Having driven numerous Mini's I actually get what he meant:-)
Speedometers on 70's car were generally very optimistic, I remember
seeing the speedo on the mates Mk2 Cooper S showing about 120mph on
Geelong Road, felt rather fast:-)
No other car can put a smile on your face easier than an original Mini.

**Or a frown, when the distributor got wet.

I once hit a small puddle doing about 60mph in a Mk1 Mini, the thing
missed and farted for the next 10 miles and wouldn't go over 40mph.

You could get a rubber cover that went over teh dissy which pretty much prevented that problem.

Still, another mate had a Mini with twin Webers. I loved the induction
noise. As for the optimistic speedos, I'm not sure. The Mini speedo
was a Smiths instrument of a large size. I had always assumed it was a
quality device, as opposed to ANYTHING from the Lucas factory.

A garage in the town where I lived specialised in tuning Mk1s (before
the days of the Cooper S). His special was twin Webbers on a tuned
manifold, he had to cut a hole in the firewall to fit them, and relocate
the speedo.

That was great for top end but bottom end and drive ability went out the window.
--
Daryl
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 25/7/2025 8:45 pm, keithr0 wrote:

On 24/07/2025 10:10 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 2:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 24/07/2025 1:24 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 8:16 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 23/07/2025 4:23 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/
consol_reg/ rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road
Rules, and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first
determining the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the
speed limit, and decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and >>>>>> with an adjustment for roads on a slope, and then calculating how >>>>>> long the vehicle would take to reach the stop line if the driver
decides to proceed instead of stopping. A second is added to allow >>>>>> for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line, >>>>>> but can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is >>>>>> less than a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross >>>>>> the stop line when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going >>>>>> through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not >>>>>> understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have >>>>>> to put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Sylvia.

**On a (barely) related matter. Back in the early 1970s, a mate's
mum was driving her HR Holden. The lights turned amber, she put her >>>>> foot down and halfway through the intersection, the lights turned
red. As it happens, a couple of cops were behind her. They pulled
her over and booked her for running a red. After receiving her
ticket, she drove off. The cops followed her. Another intersection. >>>>> The lights turned amber. She stomped on the brakes. Yep, you
guessed it: The cops rear- ended her. They tore up the first ticket. >>>>>

LOL, great story:-)

**Her son (my school mate) bought his first car. A Mini panel van,
fitted with twin SUs. His mum thought that was a nice little car for
him. Turns out his Mini was a bit of a rocket ship (for the time).
The only reason to cops managed to catch up with him, is because he
didn't realise they were chasing him and he slowed down for the 35mph
suburban speed limit. Otherwise, he could easily outrun a Falca-
Holden six of the time. We used to laugh when I asked how fast he was
going. His answer: "Oil light".

Having driven numerous Mini's I actually get what he meant:-)
Speedometers on 70's car were generally very optimistic, I remember
seeing the speedo on the mates Mk2 Cooper S showing about 120mph on
Geelong Road, felt rather fast:-)
No other car can put a smile on your face easier than an original Mini.

I had a Moke when I worked in Canberra (and a sheepskin coat), I used to
go out of my way on the way to work just to drive the windy road around
the lake it was that much fun.

I wouldn't think Canberra was the ideal place for a Moke, must have been
an excellent sheep skin coat:-)
--
Daryl
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On Thu, 24 Jul 2025 03:29:05 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote

See
https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules, and >> seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining the >> stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit, and
decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an adjustment for >> roads on a slope, and then calculating how long the vehicle would take
to reach the stop line if the driver decides to proceed instead of
stopping. A second is added to allow for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line, but
can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is less than >> a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross the stop line
when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not
understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have to
put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Because that's the law, fuckwit

You are free to try to get the High Court to change it

And enrich yet another lawyer? When I'm shafted by the police I
recall all those times I got away with it. After all, we're all
guilty of "something".
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On 25-Jul-25 9:06 PM, Daryl wrote:

On 25/7/2025 8:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:

On 25/07/2025 8:10 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 24/07/2025 10:10 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 2:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 24/07/2025 1:24 pm, Daryl wrote:

On 24/7/2025 8:16 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 23/07/2025 4:23 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/
consol_reg/ rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road >>>>>>>> Rules, and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first
determining the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the >>>>>>>> speed limit, and decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, >>>>>>>> and with an adjustment for roads on a slope, and then
calculating how long the vehicle would take to reach the stop >>>>>>>> line if the driver decides to proceed instead of stopping. A
second is added to allow for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop
line, but can stop before the intersection, and if the extra
distance is less than a quarter of the stopping distance, then >>>>>>>> you will cross the stop line when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the >>>>>>>> position of either failing to stop when they could have, or
going through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did >>>>>>>> not understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do >>>>>>>> we have to put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Sylvia.

**On a (barely) related matter. Back in the early 1970s, a mate's >>>>>>> mum was driving her HR Holden. The lights turned amber, she put >>>>>>> her foot down and halfway through the intersection, the lights
turned red. As it happens, a couple of cops were behind her. They >>>>>>> pulled her over and booked her for running a red. After receiving >>>>>>> her ticket, she drove off. The cops followed her. Another
intersection. The lights turned amber. She stomped on the brakes. >>>>>>> Yep, you guessed it: The cops rear- ended her. They tore up the >>>>>>> first ticket.

LOL, great story:-)

**Her son (my school mate) bought his first car. A Mini panel van,
fitted with twin SUs. His mum thought that was a nice little car
for him. Turns out his Mini was a bit of a rocket ship (for the
time). The only reason to cops managed to catch up with him, is
because he didn't realise they were chasing him and he slowed down
for the 35mph suburban speed limit. Otherwise, he could easily
outrun a Falca- Holden six of the time. We used to laugh when I
asked how fast he was going. His answer: "Oil light".

Having driven numerous Mini's I actually get what he meant:-)
Speedometers on 70's car were generally very optimistic, I remember
seeing the speedo on the mates Mk2 Cooper S showing about 120mph on
Geelong Road, felt rather fast:-)
No other car can put a smile on your face easier than an original Mini. >>>>

**Or a frown, when the distributor got wet.

I once hit a small puddle doing about 60mph in a Mk1 Mini, the thing
missed and farted for the next 10 miles and wouldn't go over 40mph.

You could get a rubber cover that went over teh dissy which pretty much prevented that problem.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The best/cheapest fix was a rubber glove over the dissy....Worked 100%.

Still, another mate had a Mini with twin Webers. I loved the
induction noise. As for the optimistic speedos, I'm not sure. The
Mini speedo was a Smiths instrument of a large size. I had always
assumed it was a quality device, as opposed to ANYTHING from the
Lucas factory.

A garage in the town where I lived specialised in tuning Mk1s (before
the days of the Cooper S). His special was twin Webbers on a tuned
manifold, he had to cut a hole in the firewall to fit them, and
relocate the speedo.

That was great for top end but bottom end and drive ability went out the window.

--
Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea--Massive,
difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it!!!!. Gene Spafford
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote

See
https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules,
and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining
the
stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit, and
decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an adjustment
for
roads on a slope, and then calculating how long the vehicle would take
to reach the stop line if the driver decides to proceed instead of
stopping. A second is added to allow for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line, but
can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is less
than
a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross the stop line
when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not
understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have to
put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Because that's the law, fuckwit

You are free to try to get the High Court to change it

And enrich yet another lawyer?

You don't need to use a lawyer and she doesnt use one

When I'm shafted by the police I recallall those times I got away with
it.

That wouldnt be the police usually

After all, we're all guilty of "something".

I am never guilty of anything
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

Sylvia Else wrote:

See https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules, and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining the stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit, and decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an adjustment for roads on a slope, and then calculating how long the vehicle would take
to reach the stop line if the driver decides to proceed instead of
stopping. A second is added to allow for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line, but
can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is less than
a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross the stop line
when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not
understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have to
put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Sylvia.

Irreverent of the legal nonsense, a yellow or orange light on a carriage
way means to slow to below 40 and proceed with caution.
This is the rules for the orange coats the DMR used to wear and the
orange and yellow high visibility you see today
While driving if you sight these colors anywhere even to the side of the
road or oncoming vehicle you must slow below 40

Yellow hi visibility is not actually the law its only orange except
because of the the latest fashion in Australia it is the law to slow to
below 40
--
Digital Marketing Specialist
24 Hours eCommerce support
Phone 03 67243630
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

On Sat, 26 Jul 2025 13:25:39 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote

See
https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules, >>>> and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining >>>> the
stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit, and
decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an adjustment >>>> for
roads on a slope, and then calculating how long the vehicle would take >>>> to reach the stop line if the driver decides to proceed instead of
stopping. A second is added to allow for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line, but >>>> can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is less >>>> than
a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross the stop line
when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not
understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have to
put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Because that's the law, fuckwit

You are free to try to get the High Court to change it

And enrich yet another lawyer?

You don't need to use a lawyer and she doesnt use one

When I'm shafted by the police I recallall those times I got away with
it.

That wouldnt be the police usually

Well, we are referring to the road rules...eh?

After all, we're all guilty of "something".

I am never guilty of anything

What a colossal fib. That's guilt. Off to the supreme court for you.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: aus.cars

Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote

See
https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s57.html

In particular 57(1)(c). This derives from the Australian Road Rules, >>>>> and seems to apply in all Australian states.

The duration of the yellow signal is calculated by first determining >>>>> the
stopping distance of a vehicle stopping from the speed limit, and
decelerating at 3m/s where the road is level, and with an adjustment >>>>> for
roads on a slope, and then calculating how long the vehicle would
take
to reach the stop line if the driver decides to proceed instead of
stopping. A second is added to allow for reacting time.

Thing is, if you decide that you cannot stop before the stop line, >>>>> but
can stop before the intersection, and if the extra distance is less
than
a quarter of the stopping distance, then you will cross the stop line >>>>> when the signal has turned red.

So the effect of this intersection rule is to put drivers in the
position of either failing to stop when they could have, or going
through a red light.

Presumably that part of the rule was added by someone who did not
understand the physics and/or couldn't do the math. Why do we have to >>>>> put up with such regulatory nonsense?

Because that's the law, fuckwit

You are free to try to get the High Court to change it

And enrich yet another lawyer?

You don't need to use a lawyer and she doesnt use one

When I'm shafted by the police I recallall those times I got away with
it.

That wouldnt be the police usually

Well, we are referring to the road rules...eh?

But in practice you usually get caught by the
intersection cameras which arent run by the cops.

After all, we're all guilty of "something".

I am never guilty of anything

What a colossal fib. That's guilt. Off to the supreme court for you.

The supreme court doesnt handle lies in usenet
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2