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| Messages: | 178,944 |
For a thread on Mastodon I did a quick (and only approximate) check of
the number of articles in every newsgroup on the server that I
operate.
(About 25 years ago, the busiest group was
alt.comp.virus
For a thread on Mastodon I did a quick (and only approximate) check of
the number of articles in every newsgroup on the server that I
operate.
Garrett Wollman <wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
For a thread on Mastodon I did a quick (and only approximate) check of
the number of articles in every newsgroup on the server that I
operate.
Your title is overly pessimistic.
There are still many low volume usenet groups
that serve a useful function, and are never empty,
at for example 100 postings/month.
Some of them even have some personal overlap with AUE,
comp.text.tex -- lots of posts, nearly all CTAN announcements;
extremely little discussion
sci.lang.translation -- 25 years ago my favourite group, but if I
tell you that the most active poster today is the hen there is
not much else to know
On 04/10/2025 10:20, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
comp.text.tex -- lots of posts, nearly all CTAN announcements;
extremely little discussion
TeX only? Or is LaTeX topical?
sci.lang.translation -- 25 years ago my favourite group, but if I tell
you that the most active poster today is the hen there is not much else
to know
What kind of translation? Natural or programming languages?
On 2025-10-04 09:29:51 +0000, Richard Heathfield said:
On 04/10/2025 10:20, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
comp.text.tex -- lots of posts, nearly all CTAN announcements;
extremely little discussion
TeX only? Or is LaTeX topical?
Principally LaTeX, I think.
sci.lang.translation -- 25 years ago my favourite group, but
if I tell you that the most active poster today is the hen
there is not much else to know
What kind of translation? Natural or programming languages?
natural
For a thread on Mastodon I did a quick (and only approximate) check of
the number of articles in every newsgroup on the server that I
operate. My expiration policy for most groups is maximum 90 days, so
this should be about the number of non-spam-filtered articles posted
in every group in the last three months. aue is the sixth-busiest
group in all of (text) Usenet these days.
20) de.talk.tagesgeschehen 6565
19) rec.arts.tv 6732
18) alt.computer.workshop 6812
17) linux.debian.bugs.rc 6998
16) de.alt.talk.unmut 7183
15) talk.politics.misc 8994
14) comp.theory 9317
13) comp.os.linux.misc 9546
12) fr.soc.politique 10622
11) alt.atheism 11480
10) linux.debian.changes.devel 13047
9) linux.debian.bugs.dist 13087
8) de.etc.sprache.deutsch 15151
7) talk.politics.guns 15521
6) alt.usage.english 16035
5) de.alt.folklore.computer 17921
4) it.test 21146
3) alt.fan.rush-limbaugh 29234
2) soc.culture.usa 32250
1) alt.test 103894
I haven't looked at what's in these test groups; it might not actually
be communicative. (About 25 years ago, the busiest group was
alt.comp.virus, because a worm called "Hybris" downloaded its plugins
from there, and every time a new machine was infected, it would post
all the plugins to its local news server. At various other times,
newsgroups were created to distribute data from satellites,
seismometers, and other scientific instruments, also at high volumes,
but at least that was legitimate.)
For a thread on Mastodon I did a quick (and only approximate) check of
the number of articles in every newsgroup on the server that I
operate. My expiration policy for most groups is maximum 90 days, so
this should be about the number of non-spam-filtered articles posted
in every group in the last three months. aue is the sixth-busiest
group in all of (text) Usenet these days.
20) de.talk.tagesgeschehen 6565
19) rec.arts.tv 6732
18) alt.computer.workshop 6812
17) linux.debian.bugs.rc 6998
16) de.alt.talk.unmut 7183
15) talk.politics.misc 8994
14) comp.theory 9317
13) comp.os.linux.misc 9546
12) fr.soc.politique 10622
11) alt.atheism 11480
10) linux.debian.changes.devel 13047
9) linux.debian.bugs.dist 13087
8) de.etc.sprache.deutsch 15151
7) talk.politics.guns 15521
6) alt.usage.english 16035
5) de.alt.folklore.computer 17921
4) it.test 21146
3) alt.fan.rush-limbaugh 29234
2) soc.culture.usa 32250
1) alt.test 103894
it.test should be an Italian group for test purposes only, if its name
is correct. But perhaps some people hijacked it. I'm not going to look
into it.
On 04/10/2025 10:20, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
comp.text.tex -- lots of posts, nearly all CTAN announcements;
extremely little discussion
TeX only? Or is LaTeX topical?
On 2025-10-04 09:02:59 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:
Garrett Wollman <wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
For a thread on Mastodon I did a quick (and only approximate) check of
the number of articles in every newsgroup on the server that I
operate.
Your title is overly pessimistic.
There are still many low volume usenet groups
that serve a useful function, and are never empty,
at for example 100 postings/month.
Some of them even have some personal overlap with AUE,
The others that I frequent are
The others that I frequent are
talk.origins, which remains quite active on account of the efforts of
one person (Ron Okimoto). If he gets bored with it it will probably die.
sci.physics.relativity -- too many crackpots, but stll some interesting stuff
On 04/10/2025 00:07, Garrett Wollman wrote:
For a thread on Mastodon I did a quick (and only approximate) check of
the number of articles in every newsgroup on the server that I
operate. My expiration policy for most groups is maximum 90 days, so
this should be about the number of non-spam-filtered articles posted
in every group in the last three months. aue is the sixth-busiest
group in all of (text) Usenet these days.
20) de.talk.tagesgeschehen 6565
19) rec.arts.tv 6732
18) alt.computer.workshop 6812
17) linux.debian.bugs.rc 6998
16) de.alt.talk.unmut 7183
15) talk.politics.misc 8994
14) comp.theory 9317
13) comp.os.linux.misc 9546
12) fr.soc.politique 10622
11) alt.atheism 11480
10) linux.debian.changes.devel 13047
9) linux.debian.bugs.dist 13087
8) de.etc.sprache.deutsch 15151
7) talk.politics.guns 15521
6) alt.usage.english 16035
5) de.alt.folklore.computer 17921
4) it.test 21146
3) alt.fan.rush-limbaugh 29234
2) soc.culture.usa 32250
1) alt.test 103894
I haven't looked at what's in these test groups; it might not actually
be communicative. (About 25 years ago, the busiest group was alt.comp.virus, because a worm called "Hybris" downloaded its plugins
from there, and every time a new machine was infected, it would post
all the plugins to its local news server. At various other times, newsgroups were created to distribute data from satellites,
seismometers, and other scientific instruments, also at high volumes,
but at least that was legitimate.)
Nice. I see
'alt.2eggs.sausage.beans.tomatoes.2toast.largetea.cheerslove' is still ticking over, but only just. (A more in-depth analysis from Kerr-Mud,
John to follow.)
I note that the co-founder 'Mack A. Damia' is absent from the forum. I suspect he ordered his last breakfast a while back.--
Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
On 2025-10-04 09:02:59 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:
Garrett Wollman <wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
For a thread on Mastodon I did a quick (and only approximate) check of >>>> the number of articles in every newsgroup on the server that I
operate.
Your title is overly pessimistic.
There are still many low volume usenet groups
that serve a useful function, and are never empty,
at for example 100 postings/month.
Some of them even have some personal overlap with AUE,
The others that I frequent are
The others that I frequent are
talk.origins, which remains quite active on account of the efforts of
one person (Ron Okimoto). If he gets bored with it it will probably die.
sci.physics.relativity -- too many crackpots, but stll some interesting stuff
But those groups are for the care and feeding of the nutters.
Learning things from those in the know is a side-effect.
Another useful one is uk.comp.sys.mac
Despite half of it being filled by just one troll
there is competence left there,
and you may get answers to things Mac and Ipad.
There are also some useful fr.* groups left,--
Jan
On 04/10/2025 00:07, Garrett Wollman wrote:
For a thread on Mastodon I did a quick (and only approximate) check of
the number of articles in every newsgroup on the server that I
operate. My expiration policy for most groups is maximum 90 days, so
this should be about the number of non-spam-filtered articles posted
in every group in the last three months. aue is the sixth-busiest
group in all of (text) Usenet these days.
20) de.talk.tagesgeschehen 6565
19) rec.arts.tv 6732
18) alt.computer.workshop 6812
17) linux.debian.bugs.rc 6998
16) de.alt.talk.unmut 7183
15) talk.politics.misc 8994
14) comp.theory 9317
13) comp.os.linux.misc 9546
12) fr.soc.politique 10622
11) alt.atheism 11480
10) linux.debian.changes.devel 13047
9) linux.debian.bugs.dist 13087
8) de.etc.sprache.deutsch 15151
7) talk.politics.guns 15521
6) alt.usage.english 16035
5) de.alt.folklore.computer 17921
4) it.test 21146
3) alt.fan.rush-limbaugh 29234
2) soc.culture.usa 32250
1) alt.test 103894
I haven't looked at what's in these test groups; it might not actually
be communicative. (About 25 years ago, the busiest group was
alt.comp.virus, because a worm called "Hybris" downloaded its plugins
from there, and every time a new machine was infected, it would post
all the plugins to its local news server. At various other times,
newsgroups were created to distribute data from satellites,
seismometers, and other scientific instruments, also at high volumes,
but at least that was legitimate.)
Nice. I see
'alt.2eggs.sausage.beans.tomatoes.2toast.largetea.cheerslove' is still ticking over, but only just. (A more in-depth analysis from Kerr-Mud,
John to follow.)
I note that the co-founder 'Mack A. Damia' is absent from the forum.
I--
suspect he ordered his last breakfast a while back.
Talking of Macs, my wife's and my MacBook Airs are both more than ten
years old, and need to be replaced. Do you have any thoughts about the >current 15" MacBook Air. (Expensive, but we can afford it, and not all
that much more than what I paid for a Macintosh Plus 35 years ago)
On 2025-10-04 10:19:52 +0000, occam said:
Nice. I see
'alt.2eggs.sausage.beans.tomatoes.2toast.largetea.cheerslove' is still
ticking over, but only just. (A more in-depth analysis from Kerr-Mud,
John to follow.)
I note that the co-founder 'Mack A. Damia' is absent from the forum.
He used to be very visible here.
When I first encountered him I was
impressed that one could live years (15, I think) in Mexico without
learning any Spanish at all (and it wasn'tcos hewas concentrate all his effort in perfecting his Nahuatl).
On 2025-10-04 11:49:08 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:
Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
On 2025-10-04 09:02:59 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:
Garrett Wollman <wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
For a thread on Mastodon I did a quick (and only approximate) check of >>>> the number of articles in every newsgroup on the server that I
operate.
Your title is overly pessimistic.
There are still many low volume usenet groups
that serve a useful function, and are never empty,
at for example 100 postings/month.
Some of them even have some personal overlap with AUE,
The others that I frequent are
The others that I frequent are
talk.origins, which remains quite active on account of the efforts of
one person (Ron Okimoto). If he gets bored with it it will probably die. >>
sci.physics.relativity -- too many crackpots, but stll some interesting
stuff
But those groups are for the care and feeding of the nutters.
Learning things from those in the know is a side-effect.
Yes. It has taken me a while to realize that Thomas Heger is one of the nutters. For a long time I thought he was basically a sane person with
some strange ideas, and a greatly inflated notion of his ability. But
with the growing earth and some other points he leaves no doubt. Maciej Wo?niak is at the other extreme: just one post is sufficient to tell
you what he is. As for "Dr" Hachel, he's an exaggerated case of someone
with a vastly inflated notion of his ability.
Another useful one is uk.comp.sys.mac
I should check that one. I don't think I've been there.
Despite half of it being filled by just one troll
there is competence left there,
and you may get answers to things Mac and Ipad.
Talking of Macs, my wife's and my MacBook Airs are both more than ten
years old, and need to be replaced. Do you have any thoughts about the current 15" MacBook Air. (Expensive, but we can afford it, and not all
that much more than what I paid for a Macintosh Plus 35 years ago)
On Sat, 4 Oct 2025 13:02:14 +0200, Silvano wrote:
it.test should be an Italian group for test purposes only, if its name
is correct. But perhaps some people hijacked it. I'm not going to look
into it.
nl.test and be.test were like that, but they're pretty much empty now.
Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ rCa ]
Talking of Macs, my wife's and my MacBook Airs are both more than ten
years old, and need to be replaced. Do you have any thoughts about the
current 15" MacBook Air. (Expensive, but we can afford it, and not all
that much more than what I paid for a Macintosh Plus 35 years ago)
What's wrong with ten years old Macs?
Much of my computer use (such as posting this with MacSoup)
is done on a 'Late 2012' Mac Mini,
which is one of the best Macs ever made.
It occupies one of those 'sweet spots'
where everything was just right.
It is running headless, so consuming little energy,
and I use a 'Mid-2010' Macbook Pro
to control it, in screen sharing.
(for some unfathomable reason Apple has given up on the 17" line,
and I like the 17" screen room)
So I cannot help you with experience-based opinions on later Macbooks.
I do see that those Airs are immensely popular in academic circles,
where they have a huge market share.
The main drawback of the older Macs is that the general security mania
has caused some www sites to be closed to them.
For more up to date browsing I use the biggest iPad Pro.
(was 12.9", nowadays 13")
Not cheap at all, but well worth it, imho. [1]
It is also great for just reading newsprint,
so for saving on dead trees,
Jan
[1] And with the 'Files' app you can use the iPad to access files
on desktop machines in the network, in a very Mac-like manner.
(it has become even better under the latest iPadOS 26,
with MacOS-like window behaviour)
On 2025-10-05 09:12:23 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:
Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ rCa ]
Talking of Macs, my wife's and my MacBook Airs are both more than ten
years old, and need to be replaced. Do you have any thoughts about the
current 15" MacBook Air. (Expensive, but we can afford it, and not all
that much more than what I paid for a Macintosh Plus 35 years ago)
What's wrong with ten years old Macs?
In the case of my wife's nothing, but she thinks it needs to be
replaced, and I don't argue.
In the case of mine, several things, some of them trivial. It has lost
a foot, but I'm sure that could easily be replaced. The back has lost
much of its firmness, but, again, that could probably be fixed. It
doesn't always close properly. More seriously, the trackpad becomes
unusable at unpredictable moments, and I need to restart. At
unpredictable moments (maybe two or three times a week) the screen goes completely black and then after a time that ranges from 10 seconds to
more than a minute, and then comes back as if nothing had happened.
Garrett Wollman <wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
For a thread on Mastodon I did a quick (and only approximate) check of
the number of articles in every newsgroup on the server that I
operate.
Your title is overly pessimistic.
There are still many low volume usenet groups
that serve a useful function, and are never empty,
at for example 100 postings/month.
Some of them even have some personal overlap with AUE,
For a thread on Mastodon I did a quick (and only approximate) check of
the number of articles in every newsgroup on the server that I
operate. My expiration policy for most groups is maximum 90 days, so
this should be about the number of non-spam-filtered articles posted
in every group in the last three months. aue is the sixth-busiest
group in all of (text) Usenet these days.
20) de.talk.tagesgeschehen 6565
19) rec.arts.tv 6732
18) alt.computer.workshop 6812
17) linux.debian.bugs.rc 6998
16) de.alt.talk.unmut 7183
15) talk.politics.misc 8994
14) comp.theory 9317
13) comp.os.linux.misc 9546
12) fr.soc.politique 10622
11) alt.atheism 11480
10) linux.debian.changes.devel 13047
9) linux.debian.bugs.dist 13087
8) de.etc.sprache.deutsch 15151
7) talk.politics.guns 15521
6) alt.usage.english 16035
5) de.alt.folklore.computer 17921
4) it.test 21146
3) alt.fan.rush-limbaugh 29234
2) soc.culture.usa 32250
1) alt.test 103894
I haven't looked at what's in these test groups; it might not actually
be communicative. (About 25 years ago, the busiest group was
alt.comp.virus, because a worm called "Hybris" downloaded its plugins
from there, and every time a new machine was infected, it would post
all the plugins to its local news server. At various other times,
newsgroups were created to distribute data from satellites,
seismometers, and other scientific instruments, also at high volumes,
but at least that was legitimate.)
Interesting, thanks. This raises the question of where
former Usenauts go, other than to meet their maker.
The little I've seen of Reddit hasn't inspired much enthusiasm.
Does anyone participate in other English usage forums?
(I had to look up Mastodon. I'd never heard of the Fediverse.)
Reddit? It's an awful place full of imbeciles.
When I tried using Reddit it seemed to be full of people who
just post random stuff to farm karma. They are more concerned
about getting upvotes than posting anything informative.
In article <xn0pbub29n5avrn000@post.eweka.nl>, blueshirt@indigo.news says...
Reddit? It's an awful place full of imbeciles.
When I tried using Reddit it seemed to be full of people who
just post random stuff to farm karma. They are more concerned
about getting upvotes than posting anything informative.
Reddit didn't intend this, but it's a behavioral training
program to make us all more inane. It's the upvotes. People
can't help wanting upvotes, since we're tribal creatures
and upvotes mean tribal approval... and what gets upvotes?
[ rCa ]
You seem yo have fixed your line-length problem: congratulations.
John Dunlop wrote:
Interesting, thanks. This raises the question of where
former Usenauts go, other than to meet their maker.
THAT is where most of them do go I'd say...
The little I've seen of Reddit hasn't inspired much enthusiasm.
Does anyone participate in other English usage forums?
Reddit? It's an awful place full of imbeciles.
When I tried using Reddit it seemed to be full of people who
just post random stuff to farm karma. They are more concerned
about getting upvotes than posting anything informative.
Interesting, thanks. This raises the question of where former Usenauts
go, other than to meet their maker. The little I've seen of Reddit
hasn't inspired much enthusiasm. Does anyone participate in other
English usage forums?
Someone had posted a lengthy description of the capabilities of a device.
A reply pointed out that there were a few significant errors - claims of features that didn't exist.
The originator responded that it wasn't _his_ mistake, the errors were
made by the AI he used to write it.
Garrett Wollman:
Interesting, thanks. This raises the question of where former Usenauts
go, other than to meet their maker. The little I've seen of Reddit
hasn't inspired much enthusiasm. Does anyone participate in other
English usage forums?
On 09/10/25 23:34, John Dunlop wrote:
Garrett Wollman:
[usenet stats]
Interesting, thanks. This raises the question of where former Usenauts
go, other than to meet their maker. The little I've seen of Reddit
hasn't inspired much enthusiasm. Does anyone participate in other
English usage forums?
A lot of former AUE regulars can be found on Facebook.
Unfortunately I've lost all faith in Facebook, and avoid it as much as possible. I'd close my Facebook account, except that Facebook doesn't
let you do that -- further evidence that it's evil.
Peter Moylan is guilty of <10ccqbp$ic0f$1@dont-email.me> as of
10/10/2025 10:35:49 PM
On 09/10/25 23:34, John Dunlop wrote:
Garrett Wollman:
[usenet stats]
Interesting, thanks. This raises the question of where former Usenauts
go, other than to meet their maker. The little I've seen of Reddit
hasn't inspired much enthusiasm. Does anyone participate in other
English usage forums?
A lot of former AUE regulars can be found on Facebook.
That happened even earlier over in TONG.
Unfortunately I've lost all faith in Facebook, and avoid it as much as
possible. I'd close my Facebook account, except that Facebook doesn't
let you do that -- further evidence that it's evil.
Meta tasis.
[...] Stopping Facebook is possible. You have to ignore them (and their constant nagging messages) over an extended period of time. My wife joined FB around 10 years ago - despite my warnings. A niece had told her that my son's girlfriend's photo was on Facebook. It was a classic case of "curiosity killed the cat". She [wife] suddenly found herself being bombarded by offers from FB to subscribe to additional 'features'. Any attempts to close the account was taken as a sign for Meta to try harder. "No" apparently means "Yes please" to their marketing people. Eventually they stopped when they thought the curious cat had died.
A lot of former AUE regulars can be found on Facebook.
Unfortunately I've lost all faith in Facebook, and avoid it as much as possible. I'd close my Facebook account, except that Facebook doesn't
let you do that -- further evidence that it's evil.
Unfortunately I've lost all faith in Facebook, and avoid it as much as
possible. I'd close my Facebook account, except that Facebook doesn't
let you do that -- further evidence that it's evil.
I requested all data they had and then deleted my FB several years ago.
It would surprise me if that isn't an option anymore. (Although, if you
gave the AI access to your data it doesn't really matter.)
On Sat, 11 Oct 2025 16:35:49 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
A lot of former AUE regulars can be found on Facebook.
Unfortunately I've lost all faith in Facebook, and avoid it as much as
possible. I'd close my Facebook account, except that Facebook doesn't
let you do that -- further evidence that it's evil.
I requested all data they had and then deleted my FB several years ago.
It would surprise me if that isn't an option anymore. (Although, if you
gave the AI access to your data it doesn't really matter.)
On 09/10/2025 16:21, Blueshirt wrote:
When I tried using Reddit it seemed to be full of people
who just post random stuff to farm karma. They are more
concerned about getting upvotes than posting anything
informative.
I looked at a Reddit (thread?) recently.
Someone had posted a lengthy description of the capabilities
of a device. A reply pointed out that there were a few
significant errors - claims of features that didn't exist.
The originator responded that it wasn't his mistake, the
errors were made by the AI he used to write it.
Den 11.10.2025 kl. 16.54 skrev s|b:
Unfortunately I've lost all faith in Facebook, and avoid it as
much as possible. I'd close my Facebook account, except that
Facebook doesn't let you do that -- further evidence that it's
evil.
I requested all data they had and then deleted my FB several years
ago. It would surprise me if that isn't an option anymore.
(Although, if you gave the AI access to your data it doesn't
really matter.)
I was on FB for a fortnight back when it was new. I soon regretted
it and wanted to delete my account, but that wasn't an option, so I
disabled it.
Many years later FB was forced (by EU?) to make it possible to
delete your account. Whether or not it is possible is a moot
question. In any case they will bury our data deep in their servers
and keep using them.
On 11/10/2025 15:54, s|b wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2025 16:35:49 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
A lot of former AUE regulars can be found on Facebook.
Unfortunately I've lost all faith in Facebook, and avoid it as much as
possible. I'd close my Facebook account, except that Facebook doesn't
let you do that -- further evidence that it's evil.
I requested all data they had and then deleted my FB several years ago.
It would surprise me if that isn't an option anymore. (Although, if you
gave the AI access to your data it doesn't really matter.)
Could one change everything within the account data, including name &
contact information, giving a non-functional email address?
What I noticed about Reddit when I was on it was, people who
posted correct information in reply to something actually got
downvoted by ignorant people who couldn't accept that they were
wrong.
So the whole upvote/downvote system is a nonsense.
In any case it's not clear to me how such checks could be done. If the
check is for childish behaviour, that would lock out Donald Trump. More likely, there will just be a checkbox saying "I certify that I am 16
years old, and so is my father whose credit card number I have entered".
Could one change everything within the account data, including name & contact information, giving a non-functional email address?
On Sat, 11 Oct 2025 16:35:49 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
A lot of former AUE regulars can be found on Facebook.
Unfortunately I've lost all faith in Facebook, and avoid it as much as
possible. I'd close my Facebook account, except that Facebook doesn't
let you do that -- further evidence that it's evil.
I requested all data they had and then deleted my FB several years ago.
It would surprise me if that isn't an option anymore. (Although, if you
gave the AI access to your data it doesn't really matter.)
On 11/10/2025 15:54, s|b wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2025 16:35:49 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
A lot of former AUE regulars can be found on Facebook.
Unfortunately I've lost all faith in Facebook, and avoid it as much as
possible. I'd close my Facebook account, except that Facebook doesn't
let you do that -- further evidence that it's evil.
I requested all data they had and then deleted my FB several years ago.
It would surprise me if that isn't an option anymore. (Although, if you
gave the AI access to your data it doesn't really matter.)
Could one change everything within the account data, including name & contact information, giving a non-functional email address?
Could one change everything within the account data, including name &
contact information, giving a non-functional email address?
But how do they then send you a confirmatory email?
On 11/10/2025 at 19:47, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 11/10/2025 15:54, s|b wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2025 16:35:49 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
A lot of former AUE regulars can be found on Facebook.
Unfortunately I've lost all faith in Facebook, and avoid it as much as >>>> possible. I'd close my Facebook account, except that Facebook doesn't
let you do that -- further evidence that it's evil.
I requested all data they had and then deleted my FB several years ago.
It would surprise me if that isn't an option anymore. (Although, if you
gave the AI access to your data it doesn't really matter.)
Could one change everything within the account data, including name &
contact information, giving a non-functional email address?
But how do they then send you a confirmatory email?
Den 11.10.2025 kl. 20.47 skrev Sam Plusnet:
Could one change everything within the account data, including name &
contact information, giving a non-functional email address?
It would just be stored alongside the valid one.
Alongside?-a Or would it be overwritten?-a (I have no idea.)Could one change everything within the account data, including name &
contact information, giving a non-functional email address?
It would just be stored alongside the valid one.
Could one change everything within the account data, including name &
contact information, giving a non-functional email address?
But how do they then send you a confirmatory email?
You can get throw-away email addresses which will expire a few minutes
or hours after you create them - assuming you really did want that confirmatory email.
Den 11.10.2025 kl. 21.27 skrev Blueshirt:
What I noticed about Reddit when I was on it was, people who
posted correct information in reply to something actually got
downvoted by ignorant people who couldn't accept that they were
wrong.
So the whole upvote/downvote system is a nonsense.
Of course it is. You can't vote on facts.
Never been a "member" of Facebook, but several of my family have
been/are, so it wouldn't surprise me if some data about me is on
Facebook.
In article <10cg04q$1dbmo$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> wrote:
Never been a "member" of Facebook, but several of my family have >been/are, so it wouldn't surprise me if some data about me is on >Facebook.
Facebook is known to have created "shadow profiles" for every human it
knows about, including those who have never been its customers as well
as those who closed their accounts, because their users for some
reason have no respect for the privacy of their "friends".
On Sunday or thereabouts, Bertel Lund Hansen declared ...
Den 11.10.2025 kl. 21.27 skrev Blueshirt:
What I noticed about Reddit when I was on it was, people who
posted correct information in reply to something actually got
downvoted by ignorant people who couldn't accept that they were
wrong.
So the whole upvote/downvote system is a nonsense.
Of course it is. You can't vote on facts.
You can vote on appropriateness of facts to a discussion, though, and
the way a fact is presented.
Den 12.10.2025 kl. 20.42 skrev Sam Plusnet:
Alongside? Or would it be overwritten? (I have no idea.)Could one change everything within the account data, including
name & contact information, giving a non-functional email
address?
It would just be stored alongside the valid one.
Neither have I, but I presume that FB and the other asocial media
never delete anything.
On 09/10/25 23:34, John Dunlop wrote:
Garrett Wollman:
[usenet stats]
Interesting, thanks. This raises the question of where former Usenauts
go, other than to meet their maker. The little I've seen of Reddit
hasn't inspired much enthusiasm. Does anyone participate in other
English usage forums?
A lot of former AUE regulars can be found on Facebook.
Unfortunately I've lost all faith in Facebook, and avoid it as much as possible. I'd close my Facebook account, except that Facebook doesn't
let you do that -- further evidence that it's evil.
On 13/10/25 05:57, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 12.10.2025 kl. 20.42 skrev Sam Plusnet:
Alongside?-a Or would it be overwritten?-a (I have no idea.)Could one change everything within the account data, including
name & contact information, giving a non-functional email
address?
It would just be stored alongside the valid one.
Neither have I, but I presume that FB and the other asocial media
never delete anything.
I like your use of "asocial media".
Recently the term "sovereign citizen" has been in the news here, because
one such person shot three police, two fatally, and then disappeared
into the wilderness. (He hasn't yet been caught.) As I understand it, a self-styled "sovereign citizen" rejects the rules of society. Doesn't
that make them a non-citizen?
On 12/10/2025 23:47, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 13/10/25 05:57, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:I would have thought so.
Den 12.10.2025 kl. 20.42 skrev Sam Plusnet:
Alongside? Or would it be overwritten? (I have no idea.)Could one change everything within the account data, including
name & contact information, giving a non-functional email
address?
It would just be stored alongside the valid one.
Neither have I, but I presume that FB and the other asocial media
never delete anything.
I like your use of "asocial media".
Recently the term "sovereign citizen" has been in the news here, because
one such person shot three police, two fatally, and then disappeared
into the wilderness. (He hasn't yet been caught.) As I understand it, a
self-styled "sovereign citizen" rejects the rules of society. Doesn't
that make them a non-citizen?
Do they believe that not being a citizen meant that laws did not apply
to them?
Maybe I should visit Australia and go on a crime spree.
P.S. Is "spree" only ever used in modern English within that phrase?
Friday, Peter Moylan murmurred ...
On 09/10/25 23:34, John Dunlop wrote:
Garrett Wollman:
[usenet stats]
Interesting, thanks. This raises the question of where former Usenauts
go, other than to meet their maker. The little I've seen of Reddit
hasn't inspired much enthusiasm. Does anyone participate in other
English usage forums?
A lot of former AUE regulars can be found on Facebook.
Unfortunately I've lost all faith in Facebook, and avoid it as much as
possible. I'd close my Facebook account, except that Facebook doesn't
let you do that -- further evidence that it's evil.
FB isn't just used by ex-usenetters. Many organizations use it for communication, and I don't think many choral groups, gardening clubs, or classic car meetups have switched to the Fediverse.
Ar an dara l|i d|-ag de m|! Deireadh F||mhair, scr|!obh Garrett Wollman:
In article <10cg04q$1dbmo$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> wrote:
Never been a "member" of Facebook, but several of my family have >been/are, so it wouldn't surprise me if some data about me is on >Facebook.
Facebook is known to have created "shadow profiles" for every human it knows about, including those who have never been its customers as well
as those who closed their accounts, because their users for some
reason have no respect for the privacy of their "friends".
What do you mean?
On 13/10/25 10:05, Snidely wrote:
FB isn't just used by ex-usenetters. Many organizations use it for
communication, and I don't think many choral groups, gardening clubs, or
classic car meetups have switched to the Fediverse.
My choir has switched over to WhatsApp. Not a decision I would have
made, but it does appear to be less evil that Facebook.
We're seeing a split in our society. (But perhaps it was always there.) >Well-educated people use "fact" to mean something that is provably true.
A lot of other people think that the truth of a fact is a matter of opinion.
FB isn't just used by ex-usenetters. Many organizations use it for >communication, and I don't think many choral groups, gardening clubs,
or classic car meetups have switched to the Fediverse.
On 13/10/25 10:05, Snidely wrote:
Friday, Peter Moylan murmurred ...
On 09/10/25 23:34, John Dunlop wrote:
Garrett Wollman:
[usenet stats]
Interesting, thanks. This raises the question of where former Usenauts >>>> go, other than to meet their maker. The little I've seen of Reddit
hasn't inspired much enthusiasm. Does anyone participate in other
English usage forums?
A lot of former AUE regulars can be found on Facebook.
Unfortunately I've lost all faith in Facebook, and avoid it as much as
possible. I'd close my Facebook account, except that Facebook doesn't
let you do that -- further evidence that it's evil.
FB isn't just used by ex-usenetters. Many organizations use it for
communication, and I don't think many choral groups, gardening clubs, or
classic car meetups have switched to the Fediverse.
My choir has switched over to WhatsApp. Not a decision I would have
made, but it does appear to be less evil that Facebook.
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:42:52 +1100, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
wrote:
We're seeing a split in our society. (But perhaps it was always there.)
Well-educated people use "fact" to mean something that is provably true.
A lot of other people think that the truth of a fact is a matter of opinion.
For a long time people have spoken of "true facts" as if there were
false facts from which they needed to bed distinguished.
Norman Mailer tried to clarify the concept by inventing the word
"factoid" for something that resembles a fact but isn't, which people
have come to think of as a fact because of constant repetition.
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:42:52 +1100, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
wrote:
We're seeing a split in our society. (But perhaps it was always there.) >>Well-educated people use "fact" to mean something that is provably true.
A lot of other people think that the truth of a fact is a matter of opinion.
For a long time people have spoken of "true facts" as if there were
false facts from which they needed to bed distinguished.
Norman Mailer tried to clarify the concept by inventing the word
"factoid" for something that resembles a fact but isn't, which people
have come to think of as a fact because of constant repetition.
On 11/10/2025 at 15:54, s|b wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2025 16:35:49 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
A lot of former AUE regulars can be found on Facebook.
Unfortunately I've lost all faith in Facebook, and avoid it as much as
possible. I'd close my Facebook account, except that Facebook doesn't
let you do that -- further evidence that it's evil.
I requested all data they had and then deleted my FB several years ago.
It would surprise me if that isn't an option anymore. (Although, if you
gave the AI access to your data it doesn't really matter.)
Never been a "member" of Facebook, but several of my family have
been/are, so it wouldn't surprise me if some data about me is on
Facebook. However I can't find out about it and/or delete it as I do not have a Facebook account. Catch 22?
So the whole upvote/downvote system is a nonsense.
Of course it is. You can't vote on facts.
You can vote on appropriateness of facts to a discussion, though, and
the way a fact is presented.
We're seeing a split in our society. (But perhaps it was always there.) Well-educated people use "fact" to mean something that is provably true.
A lot of other people think that the truth of a fact is a matter of
opinion.
Recently the term "sovereign citizen" has been in the news here, because
one such person shot three police, two fatally, and then disappeared
into the wilderness. (He hasn't yet been caught.) As I understand it, a self-styled "sovereign citizen" rejects the rules of society. Doesn't
that make them a non-citizen?
What do you mean? In this part of the world, where many people have Facebook, the law (the GDPR and its transcription into local statutes), says that lawful
purposes for processing personal data are:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:42:52 +1100, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
wrote:
We're seeing a split in our society. (But perhaps it was always there.)
Well-educated people use "fact" to mean something that is provably true.
A lot of other people think that the truth of a fact is a matter of opinion.
For a long time people have spoken of "true facts" as if there were
false facts from which they needed to bed distinguished.
On 13/10/25 13:36, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:42:52 +1100, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
wrote:
We're seeing a split in our society. (But perhaps it was always there.)
Well-educated people use "fact" to mean something that is provably true. >>> A lot of other people think that the truth of a fact is a matter of opinion.
For a long time people have spoken of "true facts" as if there were
false facts from which they needed to bed distinguished.
Norman Mailer tried to clarify the concept by inventing the word
"factoid" for something that resembles a fact but isn't, which people
have come to think of as a fact because of constant repetition.
It doesn't help that we have a new definition of "fake news": news that
is true, but that puts a certain dictator in a bad light.
You can vote on appropriateness of facts to a discussion, though, and
the way a fact is presented.
Den 12.10.2025 kl. 23.10 skrev Aidan Kehoe:
What do you mean? In this part of the world, where many people have Facebook, the law (the GDPR and its transcription into local statutes), says that lawful purposes for processing personal data are:
That is no concern of FB. They store what they like, and nobody from outside will ever be allowed to check what is on their files.
I left WhatsApp after it was taken over by Facebook. For personal
messaging, Signal is better at the moment. It does what Whatsapp does
without tracking you to show you ads on Facebook.
Den 12.10.2025 kl. 21.54 skrev Snidely:
So the whole upvote/downvote system is a nonsense.
Of course it is. You can't vote on facts.
You can vote on appropriateness of facts to a discussion, though, and the >> way a fact is presented.
Do you think that that is what people are doing on Reddit?
I have no clue since I don't follow asocial media.
My choir has switched over to WhatsApp. Not a decision I would have
made, but it does appear to be less evil that Facebook.
It's not. It's the same company.
On 2025-10-13 04:59:08 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
It doesn't help that we have a new definition of "fake news": news that
is true, but that puts a certain dictator in a bad light.
Is it possible to put the dictator in question in a good light? I can't
think of anything good he has done.
One side of politics believes that non-citizens should be deported.
Perhaps I should start a campaign to deport sovereign non-citizens. On
the other hand, what country would accept them?
Are Muslims that see sharia law as ideal, citizens (provided they use
only legal means)?
I requested all data they had and then deleted my FB several years ago.
It would surprise me if that isn't an option anymore. (Although, if you gave the AI access to your data it doesn't really matter.)
Never been a "member" of Facebook, but several of my family have
been/are, so it wouldn't surprise me if some data about me is on
Facebook. However I can't find out about it and/or delete it as I do not have a Facebook account. Catch 22?
FB isn't just used by ex-usenetters. Many organizations use it for communication, and I don't think many choral groups, gardening clubs,
or classic car meetups have switched to the Fediverse.
/dps
Are Muslims that see sharia law as ideal, citizens (provided they use
only legal means)?
Can the Danish government take away the citizenship of a person when the government does not agree with their beliefs?
> That is no concern of FB. They store what they like, and nobody from outside
> will ever be allowed to check what is on their files.
If the law were enforced, they would be subject to stiff financial penalties, and they are concerned about money.
Den 13.10.2025 kl. 00.42 skrev Peter Moylan:
We're seeing a split in our society. (But perhaps it was always there.)
Well-educated people use "fact" to mean something that is provably true.
A lot of other people think that the truth of a fact is a matter of
opinion.
I have a clear example of that told me by a teacher who experienced it.
I may have told it before.
A girl was at an exam in geography, and at one point the teacher asked
how many people that live in Aarhus (it's around 175'000). She answered 50'000. The teacher and the censor reacted and bade her to reconsider
her answer, but she was adamant though they told her the correct answer.
She left the room saying: "You have your opinion, and I have mine."
A girl was at an exam in geography, and at one point the teacher asked
how many people that live in Aarhus (it's around 175'000). She answered
50'000. The teacher and the censor reacted and bade her to reconsider
her answer, but she was adamant though they told her the correct answer.
She left the room saying: "You have your opinion, and I have mine."
Exam failed, I hope, even if I don't know anything else about that exam.
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:42:52 +1100, Peter Moylan
<peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
We're seeing a split in our society. (But perhaps it was
always there.) Well-educated people use "fact" to mean
something that is provably true. A lot of other people
think that the truth of a fact is a matter of opinion.
For a long time people have spoken of "true facts" as if
there were false facts from which they needed to bed
distinguished.
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 11:14:39 +1100, Peter Moylan
<peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
My choir has switched over to WhatsApp. Not a decision I
would have made, but it does appear to be less evil that
Facebook.
I left WhatsApp after it was taken over by Facebook. For
personal messaging, Signal is better at the moment. It does
what Whatsapp does without tracking you to show you ads on
Facebook.
On 13/10/25 13:36, Steve Hayes wrote:
For a long time people have spoken of "true facts" as if
there were false facts from which they needed to bed
distinguished.
Norman Mailer tried to clarify the concept by inventing the
word "factoid" for something that resembles a fact but
isn't, which people have come to think of as a fact because
of constant repetition.
It doesn't help that we have a new definition of "fake news":
news that is true, but that puts a certain dictator in a bad
light.
"True facts" has never particularly annoyed me, though I suppose
it could.
The noun "fact" carries an entire worldview with it,
a built-in frame. It implies there are statements that are
just plain true, end of story. From there, it's a short leap
to the speaker deciding what those facts are and treating
anyone who sees things differently like a total lunatic.
Is it possible to put the dictator in question in a good light? I can't >think of anything good he has done.
In article <10ciaft$223jd$1@dont-email.me>,
Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
Is it possible to put the dictator in question in a good light? I can't
think of anything good he has done.
Operation Warp Speed, the which he has spent the past five years
running away from because it was an example of scientific expertise
making a big difference in public health, both things his "base"
despises.
In article <10ciaft$223jd$1@dont-email.me>,
Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:
Is it possible to put the dictator in question in a good light? I can't >>think of anything good he has done.
Operation Warp Speed, the which he has spent the past five years
running away from because it was an example of scientific expertise
making a big difference in public health, both things his "base"
despises.
On 2025-10-13 04:59:08 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
On 13/10/25 13:36, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:42:52 +1100, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
wrote:
We're seeing a split in our society. (But perhaps it was always there.) >>>> Well-educated people use "fact" to mean something that is provably true. >>>> A lot of other people think that the truth of a fact is a matter of opinion.
For a long time people have spoken of "true facts" as if there were
false facts from which they needed to bed distinguished.
Norman Mailer tried to clarify the concept by inventing the word
"factoid" for something that resembles a fact but isn't, which people
have come to think of as a fact because of constant repetition.
It doesn't help that we have a new definition of "fake news": news that
is true, but that puts a certain dictator in a bad light.
Is it possible to put the dictator in question in a good light? I can't >think of anything good he has done.
On 2025-10-13 04:59:08 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
On 13/10/25 13:36, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:42:52 +1100, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
wrote:
We're seeing a split in our society. (But perhaps it was always there.) >>>> Well-educated people use "fact" to mean something that is provably
true.
A lot of other people think that the truth of a fact is a matter of
opinion.
For a long time people have spoken of "true facts" as if there were
false facts from which they needed to bed distinguished.
Norman Mailer tried to clarify the concept by inventing the word
"factoid" for something that resembles a fact but isn't, which people
have come to think of as a fact because of constant repetition.
It doesn't help that we have a new definition of "fake news": news that
is true, but that puts a certain dictator in a bad light.
Is it possible to put the dictator in question in a good light? I can't think of anything good he has done.
That is the case that led to Fox paying $787 million to Dominion
Voting Systems, for defamation. Their entertainers went too
far in praising them -- and threatening to fire anyone who
challenged the facade. "Discovery" of emails and texts showed
that passing along the lies was a deliberate tactic to compete
for Trump-ish viewers. They paid off DMS on what would have
been the first day of the trial: So this stuff never got entered
into the public record as sworn evidence.
On 2025-10-12 04:32, Chris Elvidge wrote:
On 11/10/2025 at 15:54, s|b wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2025 16:35:49 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
A lot of former AUE regulars can be found on Facebook.
Unfortunately I've lost all faith in Facebook, and avoid it as much as >>>> possible. I'd close my Facebook account, except that Facebook doesn't
let you do that -- further evidence that it's evil.
I requested all data they had and then deleted my FB several years ago.
It would surprise me if that isn't an option anymore. (Although, if you
gave the AI access to your data it doesn't really matter.)
Never been a "member" of Facebook, but several of my family have been/
are, so it wouldn't surprise me if some data about me is on Facebook.
However I can't find out about it and/or delete it as I do not have a
Facebook account. Catch 22?
I find FB quite useful. I have never considered it, Reddit, or YouTube 'social media'. You will not find me on FB, as I am not lar3ry or
lar3ryca, or larry on that platform. I have no 'friends' on the above mentioned platforms, and use it solely for information gathering and to
help people with 3D printing.
On 13/10/25 13:36, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:42:52 +1100, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org>
wrote:
We're seeing a split in our society. (But perhaps it was always there.)
Well-educated people use "fact" to mean something that is provably true. >> A lot of other people think that the truth of a fact is a matter of opinion.
For a long time people have spoken of "true facts" as if there were
false facts from which they needed to bed distinguished.
Norman Mailer tried to clarify the concept by inventing the word
"factoid" for something that resembles a fact but isn't, which people
have come to think of as a fact because of constant repetition.
It doesn't help that we have a new definition of "fake news": news that
is true, but that puts a certain dictator in a bad light.
Den 13.10.2025 kl. 10.39 skrev Aidan Kehoe:
> That is no concern of FB. They store what they like, and nobody from
> outside will ever be allowed to check what is on their files.
If the law were enforced, they would be subject to stiff financial penalties, and they are concerned about money.
We can't control what they store, just like we can't control how their algorithms are constructed. What they publish one way or the other will of course not be blatantly illegal.
Ar an tri|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Deireadh F||mhair, scr|!obh Bertel Lund Hansen:
> Den 13.10.2025 kl. 10.39 skrev Aidan Kehoe:
>
> > > That is no concern of FB. They store what they like, and nobody from
> > > outside will ever be allowed to check what is on their files.
> >
> > If the law were enforced, they would be subject to stiff financial
> > penalties, and they are concerned about money.
>
> We can't control what they store, just like we can't control how their
> algorithms are constructed. What they publish one way or the other will of
> course not be blatantly illegal.
Of course we could control what they store, in the same way that we sometimes audit companies when the tax authorities feel it likely that the money spent on
auditing a company is likely to be less than unpaid taxes discovered.
Steve Hayes:
I left WhatsApp after it was taken over by Facebook. For personal
messaging, Signal is better at the moment. It does what Whatsapp does
without tracking you to show you ads on Facebook.
Do some/most/all of your acquaintances use Signal?
Unless there's a Fediverse for chat apps, I can't use Signal if everyone
I know uses WhatsApp.
On 13/10/2025 21:09, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
Ar an tri|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Deireadh F||mhair, scr|!obh Bertel Lund Hansen:
> Den 13.10.2025 kl. 10.39 skrev Aidan Kehoe:
>
> >> That is no concern of FB. They store what they like, and nobody
> >> from outside will ever be allowed to check what is on their files.
> >
> > If the law were enforced, they would be subject to stiff financial
> > penalties, and they are concerned about money.
>
> We can't control what they store, just like we can't control how their
> algorithms are constructed. What they publish one way or the other
> will of course not be blatantly illegal.
Of course we could control what they store, in the same way that we sometimes audit companies when the tax authorities feel it likely that the money spent on auditing a company is likely to be less than unpaid taxes discovered.
How does (for example) the Danish government (or the EU) audit data held on servers in the US, or S. Korea, or...?
This is especially difficult if this "illegal" data storage is perfectly legal in that country.
How does (for example) the Danish government (or the EU) audit data held
on servers in the US, or S. Korea, or...?
This is especially difficult if this "illegal" data storage is perfectly legal in that country.
Den 14.10.2025 kl. 01.59 skrev Sam Plusnet:
How does (for example) the Danish government (or the EU) audit data
held on servers in the US, or S. Korea, or...?
I don't think that they do, and we certainly do not have the ressources
to do it. I don't think that this is a specific Danish problem.
This is especially difficult if this "illegal" data storage is
perfectly legal in that country.
I think that there are some clauses along the line of: If you clearly
target Danish consummers, then you have to follow Danish laws.
Ar an ceathr|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Deireadh F||mhair, scr|!obh Sam Plusnet:
> On 13/10/2025 21:09, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
> >
> > Ar an tri|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Deireadh F||mhair, scr|!obh Bertel Lund Hansen:
> >
> > > Den 13.10.2025 kl. 10.39 skrev Aidan Kehoe:
> > >
> > > >> That is no concern of FB. They store what they like, and nobody
> > > >> from outside will ever be allowed to check what is on their files.
> > > >
> > > > If the law were enforced, they would be subject to stiff financial
> > > > penalties, and they are concerned about money.
> > >
> > > We can't control what they store, just like we can't control how their
> > > algorithms are constructed. What they publish one way or the other
> > > will of course not be blatantly illegal.
> >
> > Of course we could control what they store, in the same way that we
> > sometimes audit companies when the tax authorities feel it likely that the
> > money spent on auditing a company is likely to be less than unpaid taxes
> > discovered.
>
> How does (for example) the Danish government (or the EU) audit data held on
> servers in the US, or S. Korea, or...?
It (could) hire IT professionals with experience in the relevant technologies,
send them in to the compaines under threat of financial penalties for lack of co-operation, and basically do much the same sort of thing as a financial audit
these days.
On 14/10/2025 07:09, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
Ar an ceathr. lb doag de m0 Deireadh F<mhair, scr0obh Sam Plusnet:
> On 13/10/2025 21:09, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
> >
> > Ar an tri. lb doag de m0 Deireadh F<mhair, scr0obh Bertel Lund
Hansen:
> >
> > > Den 13.10.2025 kl. 10.39 skrev Aidan Kehoe:
> > >
> > > >> That is no concern of FB. They store what they like, and
nobody
> > > >> from outside will ever be allowed to check what is on their
files.
> > > >
> > > > If the law were enforced, they would be subject to stiff
financial
> > > > penalties, and they are concerned about money.
> > >
> > > We can't control what they store, just like we can't control how >> their
> > > algorithms are constructed. What they publish one way or the
other
> > > will of course not be blatantly illegal.
> >
> > Of course we could control what they store, in the same way that we
> > sometimes audit companies when the tax authorities feel it likely
that the
> > money spent on auditing a company is likely to be less than unpaid
taxes
> > discovered.
>
> How does (for example) the Danish government (or the EU) audit data
held on
> servers in the US, or S. Korea, or...?
It (could) hire IT professionals with experience in the relevant
technologies,
send them in to the compaines under threat of financial penalties for lack >> of
co-operation, and basically do much the same sort of thing as a financial >> audit
these days.
Why should a company, based outside Denmark (or the EU), allow your agents access to their servers in order to investigate 'a crime' which is perfectly legal in the country where the putative data resides?
A polite "Go away." would be perfectly reasonable response.
This reminds me (a little) of when Turkey made it a serious offence to insult the President. They then insisted that (IIRC) The Netherlands extradite a journalist who, they claimed, had violated this law.
OK, but how do you enforce that Danish law in countries where this is
not a crime. The relevant data could of course be spread over a number
of servers located in several countries.
Sam Plusnet speculated:
On 14/10/2025 07:09, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
-a Ar an ceathr|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Deireadh F||mhair, scr|!obh Sam Plusnet: >>>
-a > On 13/10/2025 21:09, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
-a > >
-a > >-a-a Ar an tri|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Deireadh F||mhair, scr|!obh Bertel >>> Lund Hansen:
-a > >
-a > >-a-a > Den 13.10.2025 kl. 10.39 skrev Aidan Kehoe:
-a > >-a-a >
-a > >-a-a > >> That is no concern of FB. They store what they like, and >>> nobody
-a > >-a-a > >> from outside will ever be allowed to check what is on
their files.
-a > >-a-a > >
-a > >-a-a > > If the law were enforced, they would be subject to stiff >>> financial
-a > >-a-a > > penalties, and they are concerned about money.
-a > >-a-a >
-a > >-a-a > We can't control what they store, just like we can't
control how their
-a > >-a-a > algorithms are constructed. What they publish one way or
the other
-a > >-a-a > will of course not be blatantly illegal.
-a > >
-a > > Of course we could control what they store, in the same way
that we
-a > > sometimes audit companies when the tax authorities feel it
likely that the
-a > > money spent on auditing a company is likely to be less than
unpaid taxes
-a > > discovered.
-a >
-a > How does (for example) the Danish government (or the EU) audit
data held on
-a > servers in the US, or S. Korea, or...?
It (could) hire IT professionals with experience in the relevant
technologies,
send them in to the compaines under threat of financial penalties for
lack of
co-operation, and basically do much the same sort of thing as a
financial audit
these days.
Why should a company, based outside Denmark (or the EU), allow your
agents access to their servers in order to investigate 'a crime' which
is perfectly legal in the country where the putative data resides?
A polite "Go away." would be perfectly reasonable response.
Don't allow the company access to Denmark (that is, to do business in Denmark).-a Some companies would shrug off Denmark, but shrug off the
whole EU?
-a-a This reminds me (a little) of when Turkey made it a serious offence
to insult the President.-a They then insisted that (IIRC) The
Netherlands extradite a journalist who, they claimed, had violated
this law.
/dps
In article <PwwHQ.1096$lhg6.1011@fx03.ams1>, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
OK, but how do you enforce that Danish law in countries where this is
not a crime. The relevant data could of course be spread over a number
of servers located in several countries.
In most cases services make money by advertising. Generally the
advertisers have a presence in the country even if the site owners
themselves don't. The government can penalise local advertisers who
do business with the site, making it unprofitable for the site to
provide their service in that country.
On 14/10/2025 22:24, Snidely wrote:
Sam Plusnet speculated:
On 14/10/2025 07:09, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
a Ar an ceathr. lb doag de m0 Deireadh F<mhair, scr0obh Sam Plusnet:
a > On 13/10/2025 21:09, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
a > >
a > >aa Ar an tri. lb doag de m0 Deireadh F<mhair, scr0obh Bertel Lund >>>> Hansen:
a > >
a > >aa > Den 13.10.2025 kl. 10.39 skrev Aidan Kehoe:
a > >aa >
a > >aa > >> That is no concern of FB. They store what they like, and >>>> nobody
a > >aa > >> from outside will ever be allowed to check what is on their >>>> files.
a > >aa > >
a > >aa > > If the law were enforced, they would be subject to stiff
financial
a > >aa > > penalties, and they are concerned about money.
a > >aa >
a > >aa > We can't control what they store, just like we can't control >>>> how their
a > >aa > algorithms are constructed. What they publish one way or the >>>> other
a > >aa > will of course not be blatantly illegal.
a > >
a > > Of course we could control what they store, in the same way that we >>>> a > > sometimes audit companies when the tax authorities feel it likely >>>> that the
a > > money spent on auditing a company is likely to be less than unpaid >>>> taxes
a > > discovered.
a >
a > How does (for example) the Danish government (or the EU) audit data >>>> held on
a > servers in the US, or S. Korea, or...?
It (could) hire IT professionals with experience in the relevant
technologies,
send them in to the compaines under threat of financial penalties for >>>> lack of
co-operation, and basically do much the same sort of thing as a financial >>>> audit
these days.
Why should a company, based outside Denmark (or the EU), allow your agents >>> access to their servers in order to investigate 'a crime' which is
perfectly legal in the country where the putative data resides?
A polite "Go away." would be perfectly reasonable response.
Don't allow the company access to Denmark (that is, to do business in
Denmark).a Some companies would shrug off Denmark, but shrug off the whole >> EU?
I suspect the legions of lawyers employed by a MegaCorp would be able to tie that up in extensive litigation for a decade or two (whilst more informal measures are employed in a less public manner perhaps).
aa This reminds me (a little) of when Turkey made it a serious offence to >>> insult the President.a They then insisted that (IIRC) The Netherlands
extradite a journalist who, they claimed, had violated this law.
On 14/10/2025 07:09, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
Ar an ceathr|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Deireadh F||mhair, scr|!obh Sam Plusnet:
> On 13/10/2025 21:09, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
> >
> > Ar an tri|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Deireadh F||mhair, scr|!obh Bertel Lund
> > Hansen:
> >
> > > Den 13.10.2025 kl. 10.39 skrev Aidan Kehoe:
> > >
> > > >> That is no concern of FB. They store what they like, and
> > > >> nobody from outside will ever be allowed to check what is on
> > > >> their files.
> > > >
> > > > If the law were enforced, they would be subject to stiff
> > > > financial penalties, and they are concerned about money.
> > >
> > > We can't control what they store, just like we can't control how
> > > their algorithms are constructed. What they publish one way or
> > > the other will of course not be blatantly illegal.
> >
> > Of course we could control what they store, in the same way that we
> > sometimes audit companies when the tax authorities feel it likely
> > that the money spent on auditing a company is likely to be less than
> > unpaid taxes discovered.
>
> How does (for example) the Danish government (or the EU) audit data
> held on servers in the US, or S. Korea, or...?
It (could) hire IT professionals with experience in the relevant technologies, send them in to the compaines under threat of financial penalties for lack of co-operation, and basically do much the same sort of thing as a financial audit these days.
Why should a company, based outside Denmark (or the EU), allow your agents access to their servers in order to investigate 'a crime' which is perfectly legal in the country where the putative data resides?
A polite "Go away." would be perfectly reasonable response.
This reminds me (a little) of when Turkey made it a serious offence to insult the President. They then insisted that (IIRC) The Netherlands extradite a journalist who, they claimed, had violated this law.
In most cases services make money by advertising. Generally the
advertisers have a presence in the country even if the site owners
themselves don't. The government can penalise local advertisers who
do business with the site, making it unprofitable for the site to
provide their service in that country.
Secondary sanctions are very much a thing these days, but for 'crimes'
very much more serious than what is being discussed here.
In article <PwwHQ.1096$lhg6.1011@fx03.ams1>, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
OK, but how do you enforce that Danish law in countries where this is
not a crime. The relevant data could of course be spread over a number
of servers located in several countries.
In most cases services make money by advertising. Generally the
advertisers have a presence in the country even if the site owners
themselves don't. The government can penalise local advertisers who
do business with the site, making it unprofitable for the site to
provide their service in that country.
Of course for some sites the nature of their business means it doesn't
cost them much anyway.
-- Richard
Ar an ceathr|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Deireadh F||mhair, scr|!obh Sam Plusnet:
> On 14/10/2025 07:09, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
> >
> > Ar an ceathr|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Deireadh F||mhair, scr|!obh Sam Plusnet:
> >
> > > On 13/10/2025 21:09, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ar an tri|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Deireadh F||mhair, scr|!obh Bertel Lund
> > > > Hansen:
> > > >
> > > > > Den 13.10.2025 kl. 10.39 skrev Aidan Kehoe:
> > > > >
> > > > > >> That is no concern of FB. They store what they like, and
> > > > > >> nobody from outside will ever be allowed to check what is on
> > > > > >> their files.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the law were enforced, they would be subject to stiff
> > > > > > financial penalties, and they are concerned about money.
> > > > >
> > > > > We can't control what they store, just like we can't control how
> > > > > their algorithms are constructed. What they publish one way or
> > > > > the other will of course not be blatantly illegal.
> > > >
> > > > Of course we could control what they store, in the same way that we
> > > > sometimes audit companies when the tax authorities feel it likely
> > > > that the money spent on auditing a company is likely to be less than
> > > > unpaid taxes discovered.
> > >
> > > How does (for example) the Danish government (or the EU) audit data
> > > held on servers in the US, or S. Korea, or...?
> >
> > It (could) hire IT professionals with experience in the relevant
> > technologies, send them in to the compaines under threat of financial
> > penalties for lack of co-operation, and basically do much the same sort of
> > thing as a financial audit these days.
>
> Why should a company, based outside Denmark (or the EU), allow your agents
> access to their servers in order to investigate 'a crime' which is perfectly
> legal in the country where the putative data resides?
> A polite "Go away." would be perfectly reasonable response.
Then then next step for Denmark or the EU country in question is to close or fine the EU subsidiary since they are not co-operating with the legal process,
or, equivalently, engaging a company unwilling to co-operate with the legal process to carry on its business,
> This reminds me (a little) of when Turkey made it a serious offence to
> insult the President. They then insisted that (IIRC) The Netherlands
> extradite a journalist who, they claimed, had violated this law.
You could consider the US governmentrCOs approach to Full Tilt Poker, an online
poker network with its physical headquarters in Dublin. Gambling is not illegal
in Ireland. The US is obligated by treaty under its engagement in the WTO to allow cross-border gambling services: https://www.citizen.org/article/case-summary-wto-internet-gambling-case/ . Because the majority of Full Tilt PokerrCOs customers were in the US, when that
country chose to violate its treaty obligations and prevent payment processors
from transferring money to Full Tilt Poker, FTP essentially went belly-up, despite not breaking Irish law and having the WTO on its side.
On 15/10/2025 06:08, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
Ar an ceathr|| l|i d|-ag de m|! Deireadh F||mhair, scr|!obh Sam Plusnet:
> This reminds me (a little) of when Turkey made it a serious offence to
> insult the President. They then insisted that (IIRC) The Netherlands
> extradite a journalist who, they claimed, had violated this law.
You could consider the US governmentrCOs approach to Full Tilt Poker, an online poker network with its physical headquarters in Dublin. Gambling is not illegal in Ireland. The US is obligated by treaty under its engagement in the WTO to allow cross-border gambling services: https://www.citizen.org/article/case-summary-wto-internet-gambling-case/ .
Because the majority of Full Tilt PokerrCOs customers were in the US, when that country chose to violate its treaty obligations and prevent payment processors from transferring money to Full Tilt Poker, FTP essentially went belly-up, despite not breaking Irish law and having the WTO on its side.
Yes but that was the US.
Few other countries expect to enforce their laws in other jurisdictions in quite this way.
In article <10c8mcd$2vtve$1@dont-email.me>, me@yahoo.com says...
You seem yo have fixed your line-length problem: congratulations.
Not exactly, but someone else suggested that I just turn wrapping
off entirely. I'm just treating it like a typewriter.
On 13/10/25 18:41, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
On 2025-10-13 04:59:08 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
It doesn't help that we have a new definition of "fake news": news that
is true, but that puts a certain dictator in a bad light.
Is it possible to put the dictator in question in a good light? I can't think of anything good he has done.
He did end seven wars, including some that haven't yet started.
