| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 27 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 38:00:31 |
| Calls: | 631 |
| Calls today: | 2 |
| Files: | 1,187 |
| D/L today: |
22 files (29,767K bytes) |
| Messages: | 173,681 |
I know a bit about computers, but not enough e.g. I know enough to
replace a power pack or backup battery and add memory chips; I have installed various applications from disc and from downloads - just so
you know I am not a total beginner.
Some time ago I asked the question 'how do I set up a new desktop
computer without losing much of what I have installed now?' The reply
(which I cannot find here) intimidated me to the extent that I decided
to stick with my current windows10 setup, but it may be time to bite the bullet.
I have an external hard drive which is bigger than my C drive and is currently keeping a backup.
I know I can transfer my Documents and my Photos and probably my
Profiles. However, I have MS Office 2021 and PaintshopPro, both of which
I downloaded legally online so I have no Hard Copy of either, although I
do have their passwords.
I know a bit about computers, but not enough e.g. I know enough to
replace a power pack or backup battery and add memory chips; I have installed various applications from disc and from downloads - just so
you know I am not a total beginner.
Some time ago I asked the question 'how do I set up a new desktop
computer without losing much of what I have installed now?' The reply
(which I cannot find here) intimidated me to the extent that I decided
to stick with my current windows10 setup, but it may be time to bite the bullet.
I have an external hard drive which is bigger than my C drive and is currently keeping a backup.
I know I can transfer my Documents and my Photos and probably my
Profiles. However, I have MS Office 2021 and PaintshopPro, both of which
I downloaded legally online so I have no Hard Copy of either, although I
do have their passwords. There are almost certainly more installed
programs that I use too. I do not have their original download files.
I assume that a new pc would have Windows 11 installed.
A simple mind like mine thinks it should be possible to copy the whole
of my C drive to my external hard drive and then copy that to the C
drive of my new m/c, but experience tells me that that that probably
won't work.
I need your help.I hope I've not intimidated you as much as (someone - it wasn't me -
I assume that a new pc would have Windows 11 installed.
A simple mind like mine thinks it should be possible to copy the whole
of my C drive to my external hard drive and then copy that to the C
drive of my new m/c, but experience tells me that that that probably
won't work.
I need your help.
Be prepared to allow a week or so to do this work.Amen. As much as I feel I have my ducks in a row, a new PC usually takes me a good day to
I know I can transfer my Documents and my Photos and probably myTo transfer a legal copy of MS Office 2021, you must first delete it
Profiles. However, I have MS Office 2021
Jim the Geordie wrote:
[snip]
I assume that a new pc would have Windows 11 installed.
A simple mind like mine thinks it should be possible to copy the whole
of my C drive to my external hard drive and then copy that to the C
drive of my new m/c, but experience tells me that that that probably
won't work.
I need your help.
In my experience - don't.
All the Windows installations I've met - including my own carefully
curated machines - have been so confused after years of use that
installing everything from scratch on the new machine is the only safe option.
The OS - obviously complete the manufacturer's install and set it up. If
you must use a Microsoft Account, then do so.-a But my recommendation is
to create a local "Admin" account for the initial setup and installation
of programs and drivers, and create one (or more "standard user"
accounts for everyday work.
Apps such as MS Office - download and install.-a These days you can generally install copies on several different machines within the same licence - so investigate what you have.
Other apps: Sage, Quickbooks, etc.-a Install afresh and ring the manufacturer to licence the new installation.-a Create accounts data
backups from the previous installations and restore.
Customisation of apps such as browsers; make notes and repeat as appropriate.-a Bookmarks and password files can generally be exported
from earlier versions.
Your data:-a make sure that this is in one logical place, such as the
root of the "Documents" tree.-a Beware apps (Sage!) that store user data alongside the program files and make sure you know where the data are. Copying the data to a new machine is therefore one simple operation, but it's worth using Robocopy with its logging facility to make the copy, so
you canprove it has been successful and find out where problems may have arisen.
If you use OneDrive and have configured it correctly you may simply be
able to connect the new machine to your OneDrive account.-a But don't
copy the desktop if it has shortcuts to installed programs since the new machine might not put the programs in the same places.
Be prepared to allow a week or so to do this work.
I know a bit about computers, but not enough e.g. I know enough to
replace a power pack or backup battery and add memory chips; I have >installed various applications from disc and from downloads - just so
you know I am not a total beginner.
Some time ago I asked the question 'how do I set up a new desktop
computer without losing much of what I have installed now?' The reply
(which I cannot find here) intimidated me to the extent that I decided
to stick with my current windows10 setup, but it may be time to bite the >bullet.
I have an external hard drive which is bigger than my C drive and is >currently keeping a backup.
I know I can transfer my Documents and my Photos and probably my
Profiles. However, I have MS Office 2021 and PaintshopPro, both of which
I downloaded legally online so I have no Hard Copy of either, although I
do have their passwords. There are almost certainly more installed
programs that I use too. I do not have their original download files.
I assume that a new pc would have Windows 11 installed.
A simple mind like mine thinks it should be possible to copy the whole
of my C drive to my external hard drive and then copy that to the C
drive of my new m/c, but experience tells me that that that probably
won't work.
I need your help.
More naivety - probably:
Could I not just bring my existing pc up to the standard requires to
install Windows11?
I know a bit about computers, but not enough e.g. I know enough to replace a power pack or backup battery and add memory chips; I have installed various applications from disc and from downloads - just so you know I am not a total beginner.
Some time ago I asked the question 'how do I set up a new desktop computer without losing much of what I have installed now?' The reply (which I cannot find here) intimidated me to the extent that I decided to stick with my current windows10 setup, but it may be time to bite the bullet.
I have an external hard drive which is bigger than my C drive and is currently keeping a backup.
I know I can transfer my Documents and my Photos and probably my Profiles. However, I have MS Office 2021 and PaintshopPro, both of which I downloaded legally online so I have no Hard Copy of either, although I do have their passwords. There are almost certainly more installed programs that I use too. I do not have their original download files.
I assume that a new pc would have Windows 11 installed.
A simple mind like mine thinks it should be possible to copy the whole of my C drive to my external hard drive and then copy that to the C drive of my new m/c, but experience tells me that that that probably won't work.
I need your help.
Could I not just bring my existing pc up to the standard requires to install Windows11?
On 2025/9/29 0:25:42, Jim the Geordie wrote:
More naivety - probably:Depends on what it is lacking. If it's just amount of RAM or "disc"
Could I not just bring my existing pc up to the standard requires to
install Windows11?
size, then almost certainly yes. If it's TPM - something
privacy/processor module - then, depending on what motherboard you have,
you _may_ be able to add the necessary module. If it's processor type, probably not. (Unless you replace the motherboard, but since that would probably involve a different type of RAM too, probably not economic
compared to a new PC anyway.)
Some will say that even doing so, if possible, will give you a machine
that will _struggle_ to run 11 (i. e. run slowly and/or flakily). Unfortunately, you can't really tell until you're there. W11 isn't,
AIUI, that much more demanding than W10, possibly less in some respects,
so you may well find that doing such an upgrade - if, as I said, it's possible - may well yield a perfectly usable machine, especially if your needs aren't great as I sense they aren't.
Others will tell you how to find _why_ your present machine isn't up to
the requirements - or, you may be able to work it out yourself.
There _are_ ways round the TPM requirement - i. e. people have managed
to install 11 on machines without such a module (or with one of too
early a version). This isn't just a proof-of-concept, i. e. proving that
it _can_ be done; it is quite possible to produce a quite usable
machine, especially if your requirements aren't that onerous. However,
this _would_ involve you jumping through various hoops, making the to-11 process much more complicated, possibly beyond your capabilities (and
mine, now, I think).
Personally, I have no intention of moving from 10 for the moment. I've
done the hack to get the extra year of security updates (very simple: download a .zip file, unzip it, and run a single command in an
administrator command window) - and it seems some people will get those without having to do anything anyway. But even if I hadn't, I'd be
carrying on: this W10 machine does all I want, and I don't anticipate
needing 11 - or later - for some time. (As I said in an earlier post,
the only thing I anticipate making me need that is web pages needing a
newer browser than will run under 10, which I don't think is going to
happen any time soon [except perhaps for US people doing their tax].)
John (expatriate Geordie, to some extent).
I know a bit about computers, but not enough e.g. I know enough to
replace a power pack or backup battery and add memory chips; I have installed various applications from disc and from downloads - just so
you know I am not a total beginner.
Some time ago I asked the question 'how do I set up a new desktop
computer without losing much of what I have installed now?' The reply
(which I cannot find here) intimidated me to the extent that I decided
to stick with my current windows10 setup, but it may be time to bite the bullet.
I have an external hard drive which is bigger than my C drive and is currently keeping a backup.
I know I can transfer my Documents and my Photos and probably my
Profiles. However, I have MS Office 2021 and PaintshopPro, both of which
I downloaded legally online so I have no Hard Copy of either, although I
do have their passwords. There are almost certainly more installed
programs that I use too. I do not have their original download files.
I assume that a new pc would have Windows 11 installed.
A simple mind like mine thinks it should be possible to copy the whole
of my C drive to my external hard drive and then copy that to the C
drive of my new m/c, but experience tells me that that that probably
won't work.
I need your help.
On 29/09/2025 01:42, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/9/29 0:25:42, Jim the Geordie wrote:
More naivety - probably:Depends on what it is lacking. If it's just amount of RAM or "disc"
Could I not just bring my existing pc up to the standard requires to
install Windows11?
Others will tell you how to find _why_ your present machine isn't up to
the requirements - or, you may be able to work it out yourself.
[]There _are_ ways round the TPM requirement - i. e. people have managed
Personally, I have no intention of moving from 10 for the moment. I've
done the hack to get the extra year of security updates (very simple:
download a .zip file, unzip it, and run a single command in an
administrator command window) - and it seems some people will get those
without having to do anything anyway. But even if I hadn't, I'd be
carrying on: this W10 machine does all I want, and I don't anticipate
needing 11 - or later - for some time. (As I said in an earlier post,
the only thing I anticipate making me need that is web pages needing a
newer browser than will run under 10, which I don't think is going to
happen any time soon [except perhaps for US people doing their tax].)
John (expatriate Geordie, to some extent).
Thanks, John (and the rest who have answered).
I'm with you. I have enrolled for the extended updates.
I have too much to lose unless I have to.
I'm sure my 84/5yo brain could probably cope, but everything I have is
set up 'my way' and I really cannot be inspired to take the chance.
On 2025/9/29 10:20:51, Jim the Geordie wrote:
On 29/09/2025 01:42, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
I'm with you. I have enrolled for the extended updates.
Just out of interest, were you offered an easy (easier) way, or did you
do the download-zip-etc. method?
On 29/09/2025 11:06, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/9/29 10:20:51, Jim the Geordie wrote:
On 29/09/2025 01:42, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
<snip>
I just went through Settings> Update & Security> Enrol for Extended
I'm with you. I have enrolled for the extended updates.
Just out of interest, were you offered an easy (easier) way, or did you
do the download-zip-etc. method?
security updates
It then told me I am enrolled for Extended Security Updates.
Nothing else.
I believe these will not happen until after October the whatever.
What is this 'download-zip-etc. method' of which you speak?
I know a bit about computers, but not enough e.g. I know enough to
replace a power pack or backup battery and add memory chips; I have installed various applications from disc and from downloads - just so
you know I am not a total beginner.
Some time ago I asked the question 'how do I set up a new desktop
computer without losing much of what I have installed now?' The reply
(which I cannot find here) intimidated me to the extent that I decided
to stick with my current windows10 setup, but it may be time to bite the bullet.
I have an external hard drive which is bigger than my C drive and is currently keeping a backup.
I know I can transfer my Documents and my Photos and probably my
Profiles. However, I have MS Office 2021 and PaintshopPro, both of which
I downloaded legally online so I have no Hard Copy of either, although I
do have their passwords. There are almost certainly more installed
programs that I use too. I do not have their original download files.
I assume that a new pc would have Windows 11 installed.
A simple mind like mine thinks it should be possible to copy the whole
of my C drive to my external hard drive and then copy that to the C
drive of my new m/c, but experience tells me that that that probably
won't work.
I need your help.
I know a bit about computers, but not enough e.g. I know enough to
replace a power pack or backup battery and add memory chips; I have installed various applications from disc and from downloads - just so
you know I am not a total beginner.
Some time ago I asked the question 'how do I set up a new desktop
computer without losing much of what I have installed now?' The reply
(which I cannot find here) intimidated me to the extent that I decided
to stick with my current windows10 setup, but it may be time to bite the bullet.
I have an external hard drive which is bigger than my C drive and is currently keeping a backup.
I know I can transfer my Documents and my Photos and probably my
Profiles. However, I have MS Office 2021 and PaintshopPro, both of which
I downloaded legally online so I have no Hard Copy of either, although I
do have their passwords. There are almost certainly more installed
programs that I use too. I do not have their original download files.
I assume that a new pc would have Windows 11 installed.
A simple mind like mine thinks it should be possible to copy the whole
of my C drive to my external hard drive and then copy that to the C
drive of my new m/c, but experience tells me that that that probably
won't work.
I need your help.
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:
I need your help.
The wide variety of offers of help and solutions indicate Windows
desperately needs a Migration Assistant like macOS. I wonder why such a
thing has never existed?
On 2025/10/1 8:10:20, Chris wrote:
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:
[]
I have seen such in the past, though I don't _think_ from Microsoft. NotI need your help.
The wide variety of offers of help and solutions indicate Windows
desperately needs a Migration Assistant like macOS. I wonder why such a
thing has never existed?
sure if I've seen them this time round - certainly plenty of places
(well, limited in the UK as we only really have one chain that sells
PCs) offering to do it as a _service_, but I don't think I've seen a _utility_.
plus a bit of
bailing wire and binder twine
On Wed, 10/1/2025 4:09 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/10/1 8:10:20, Chris wrote:
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:
[]
I have seen such in the past, though I don't _think_ from Microsoft. NotI need your help.
The wide variety of offers of help and solutions indicate Windows
desperately needs a Migration Assistant like macOS. I wonder why such a
thing has never existed?
sure if I've seen them this time round - certainly plenty of places
(well, limited in the UK as we only really have one chain that sells
PCs) offering to do it as a _service_, but I don't think I've seen a
_utility_.
Yes, there are utilities.
But, they cost $60 per program execution of that utility,
and they come with "Tech Support" and "Remote In" as part
of the rather-expensive attempt at automation. If the automation
to run Laplink for you, and fix whatever it does not finish.
Microsoft made Windows Easy Transfer, which they deprecate
from time to time when it suits their fancy, and all it
does is copy your Documents folder from one computer box
to a second computer box. This is hardly a technical triumph.
Laplink, Easeus, and ZInstall are the utility makers. Laplink
(PCMover) is the one that was there first, while the other two are in it because they heard "they can make $60 per program invocation" :-)
The "free" version of Easeus, which all it does is list
the programs in your Program Files folder, when I tested that
it could not even list all my programs, and in that case,
the "free" one did not encourage spending $60 with them. If
it had done a better job of scanning the machine and sizing
up the job, I would have been more impressed.
Microsoft makes a Backup program ("Windows 7 Backup"), now
look at the fit and finish of that utility and tell me
what a full-featured and proper Windows Easy Transfer
would look like, if it lived up to that name. It would be
a "12-cylinder disaster" ... and a "roving dumpster fire".
Any real Windows Easy Transfer design effort, would have to
deal with materials up to forty years old. "Can I migrate
my copy of 16-bit DOOM, sir?" You would never hear the end of it.
The ecosystem is just too messy for this. Only an AI equipped
Migration Assistant could attempt this, and it would
have to ask you questions about "this and that" it found,
to complete the job.
This is why we have the Geek Squad at Best Buy, or in this
news group, we have "T" as our exemplar. "T" can do your
migration for you. I'm pretty sure that the rates "T" charges
are reasonable, as jacking the rates to Geek Squad level
would not earn him a large clientele. If I took two computers
to my Computer Store (which has two guys in the build section),
the labour rate there is at least $100 per hour. It makes
a $60 Laplink run look like a bargain. If Microsoft did it
and Microsoft broke your computer, Microsoft *also* offers
tech support.
When you buy an OS from Microsoft (maybe the "Retail" version),
you receive "one support incident and three months support" as
part of the purchase. My boss at work, used to use them, and because
my boss was a techie at heart, he would throw them some
really tough "one support incident" and actually used that
service. One of his problems, would cost Microsoft anywhere
from four to eight hours labour charge (for free!). When the
person on the phone says "I need a credit card number", that's
when you know you've exceeded the terms of what the Tech Support
they offer "for free" per OS purchase. My boss used to tell
me stories about his exploits, of having some MS Tech Support
on the phone for four hours, while the two of them worked on
an incident and it had to be elevated to top level to get
fixed (that's the other four hours, when a genius remotes in).
That's an example of an honest effort, to use the service offered.
He's smart enough to answer questions about the problem,
and knows what they are up to when remoting in.
I've never heard of Microsoft doing Migration remotely, so
don't ask them to do that :-) That's not the kind of Tech
Support they offer (even if you give them a credit card
and work on incidents outside the bounds of the free incident).
Take your computers to the Geek Squad and they can mess around
with their Enterprise version of Laplink, plus a bit of
bailing wire and binder twine (moving your email folder manually, say).
The Geek Squad also ride around in their little car, like
the Molly Maid, and they can come to your house and remove
malware or whatever. Think of the fun.
Note: Standard warning. Always back up your hard drives, anyIndeed, couldn't agree more.
time you invite other humans or even Laplink, to work
on your computer. There are just so so many stories about
taking a PC to a computer store and some joker there deletes
C: on you, to be leaving anything to chance. Nobody cares
about your computer content, as much as you do.
Paul
On Wed, 10/1/2025 4:09 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/10/1 8:10:20, Chris wrote:
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:
[]
I have seen such in the past, though I don't _think_ from Microsoft. NotI need your help.
The wide variety of offers of help and solutions indicate Windows
desperately needs a Migration Assistant like macOS. I wonder why such a
thing has never existed?
sure if I've seen them this time round - certainly plenty of places
(well, limited in the UK as we only really have one chain that sells
PCs) offering to do it as a _service_, but I don't think I've seen a
_utility_.
Yes, there are utilities.
But, they cost $60 per program execution of that utility,
and they come with "Tech Support" and "Remote In" as part
of the rather-expensive attempt at automation. If the automation
swings and misses, humans remote into your machine and fix it.
This means you need a high level of "trust" in their staff
to be doing a good job. Why, it would be like taking a computer
(or two computers) into the Geek Squad... and getting them
to run Laplink for you, and fix whatever it does not finish.
Microsoft made Windows Easy Transfer, which they deprecate
from time to time when it suits their fancy, and all it
does is copy your Documents folder from one computer box
to a second computer box. This is hardly a technical triumph.
Laplink, Easeus, and ZInstall are the utility makers. Laplink
(PCMover) is the one that was there first, while the other two are in it because they heard "they can make $60 per program invocation" :-)
The "free" version of Easeus, which all it does is list
the programs in your Program Files folder, when I tested that
it could not even list all my programs, and in that case,
the "free" one did not encourage spending $60 with them. If
it had done a better job of scanning the machine and sizing
up the job, I would have been more impressed.
Microsoft makes a Backup program ("Windows 7 Backup"), now
look at the fit and finish of that utility and tell me
what a full-featured and proper Windows Easy Transfer
would look like, if it lived up to that name. It would be
a "12-cylinder disaster" ... and a "roving dumpster fire".
Any real Windows Easy Transfer design effort, would have to
deal with materials up to forty years old. "Can I migrate
my copy of 16-bit DOOM, sir?" You would never hear the end of it.
The ecosystem is just too messy for this. Only an AI equipped
Migration Assistant could attempt this, and it would
have to ask you questions about "this and that" it found,
to complete the job.
This is why we have the Geek Squad at Best Buy, or in this
news group, we have "T" as our exemplar. "T" can do your
migration for you. I'm pretty sure that the rates "T" charges
are reasonable, as jacking the rates to Geek Squad level
would not earn him a large clientele. If I took two computers
to my Computer Store (which has two guys in the build section),
the labour rate there is at least $100 per hour. It makes
a $60 Laplink run look like a bargain. If Microsoft did it
and Microsoft broke your computer, Microsoft *also* offers
tech support.
When you buy an OS from Microsoft (maybe the "Retail" version),
you receive "one support incident and three months support" as
part of the purchase. My boss at work, used to use them, and because
my boss was a techie at heart, he would throw them some
really tough "one support incident" and actually used that
service. One of his problems, would cost Microsoft anywhere
from four to eight hours labour charge (for free!). When the
person on the phone says "I need a credit card number", that's
when you know you've exceeded the terms of what the Tech Support
they offer "for free" per OS purchase. My boss used to tell
me stories about his exploits, of having some MS Tech Support
on the phone for four hours, while the two of them worked on
an incident and it had to be elevated to top level to get
fixed (that's the other four hours, when a genius remotes in).
That's an example of an honest effort, to use the service offered.
He's smart enough to answer questions about the problem,
and knows what they are up to when remoting in.
I've never heard of Microsoft doing Migration remotely, so
don't ask them to do that :-) That's not the kind of Tech
Support they offer (even if you give them a credit card
and work on incidents outside the bounds of the free incident).
Take your computers to the Geek Squad and they can mess around
with their Enterprise version of Laplink, plus a bit of
bailing wire and binder twine (moving your email folder manually, say).
The Geek Squad also ride around in their little car, like
the Molly Maid, and they can come to your house and remove
malware or whatever. Think of the fun.
Note: Standard warning. Always back up your hard drives, any
time you invite other humans or even Laplink, to work
on your computer. There are just so so many stories about
taking a PC to a computer store and some joker there deletes
C: on you, to be leaving anything to chance. Nobody cares
about your computer content, as much as you do.
On 2025-10-01 13:29, Paul wrote:
plus a bit of
bailing wire and binder twine
LOL!-a Do I spot a fellow former farm worker?
On Wed, 10/1/2025 8:49 AM, Java Jive wrote:
On 2025-10-01 13:29, Paul wrote:
plus a bit of
bailing wire and binder twine
LOL!-a Do I spot a fellow former farm worker?
We got farms around here.
But the haying is further out of town. That's when there
is hay. This year has been dry since June, so I don't
expect there will be a lot of hay this year.
When I was a kid, hay was pretty reliable. It's not
quite like that any more.
While this description isn't where I live, it's the
same trend we are seeing. When there is drought, operators
sell off parts of their herd. The total head count is
cyclical, and likely gets as much influence now from
feed problems, as from demand issues.
https://www.drovers.com/news/beef-production/how-previous-cattle-cycles-may-predict-coming-market-trends
People in one part of the country, buy hay from other
parts of the country. It would not be unheard of, for a
40 foot transport to be bringing hay a thousand miles.
Just to give some idea what influence a drought can have
on a ranch or a dairy operation. Hay is so valuable in a
bad year, thieves *steal* those 40 foot transports full
of hay. Hard to believe really. The thief probably has
a "customer" lined up for it.
Paul
The wide variety of offers of help and solutions indicate Windows
desperately needs a Migration Assistant like macOS. I wonder why such a
thing has never existed?
On Wed, 10/1/2025 8:49 AM, Java Jive wrote:
On 2025-10-01 13:29, Paul wrote:
plus a bit of
bailing wire and binder twine
LOL!-a Do I spot a fellow former farm worker?
We got farms around here.
But the haying is further out of town. That's when there
is hay. This year has been dry since June, so I don't
expect there will be a lot of hay this year.
When I was a kid, hay was pretty reliable. It's not
quite like that any more.
While this description isn't where I live, it's the
same trend we are seeing. When there is drought, operators
sell off parts of their herd. The total head count is
cyclical, and likely gets as much influence now from
feed problems, as from demand issues.
https://www.drovers.com/news/beef-production/how-previous-cattle-cycles-may-predict-coming-market-trends
People in one part of the country, buy hay from other
parts of the country. It would not be unheard of, for a
40 foot transport to be bringing hay a thousand miles.
Just to give some idea what influence a drought can have
on a ranch or a dairy operation. Hay is so valuable in a
bad year, thieves *steal* those 40 foot transports full
of hay. Hard to believe really. The thief probably has
a "customer" lined up for it.
The lack of a migration tool can be what holds off many people from migrating to W11 when it means a new computer. Easiest to implement
would be, I think, a clone of the old into the new computer, then boot a
CD that would do the upgrade of the system, with a new license.
But as another poster said: Microsoft should at least be able to
migrate Windows itself and any Microsoft software, but it can't even do
that.
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[...]
The lack of a migration tool can be what holds off many people from
migrating to W11 when it means a new computer. Easiest to implement
would be, I think, a clone of the old into the new computer, then boot a
CD that would do the upgrade of the system, with a new license.
That would indeed be the 'simplest' (not simple, but the simplest),
with the notes that:
- The CD would normally be a USB memory stick (very few, if any, new
computers come with an optical drive).
- Boot from CD/memory-stick is probably not needed as one could upgrade
(from Windows 10 to Windows 11) from an ISO file on the disk.
- A Windows 11 license is probably not needed, because it should be
stored in the non-volatile sorage (BIOS?) oof the new computer.
For most non-experienced people, cloning the old disk to the new is probably the hardest part and, frankly speaking, probably too hard.
On 02/10/2025 18:42, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[...]
The lack of a migration tool can be what holds off many people from
migrating to W11 when it means a new computer. Easiest to implement
would be, I think, a clone of the old into the new computer, then boot a >> CD that would do the upgrade of the system, with a new license.
That would indeed be the 'simplest' (not simple, but the simplest),
with the notes that:
- The CD would normally be a USB memory stick (very few, if any, new
computers come with an optical drive).
- Boot from CD/memory-stick is probably not needed as one could upgrade
(from Windows 10 to Windows 11) from an ISO file on the disk.
- A Windows 11 license is probably not needed, because it should be
stored in the non-volatile sorage (BIOS?) oof the new computer.
For most non-experienced people, cloning the old disk to the new is probably the hardest part and, frankly speaking, probably too hard.
Cloning *might* be simple if the old and new PCs have almost identical hardware, otherwise it could be more trouble than its worth. Especially
for somebody who bought a new OEM machine and forgot to first keep an
image of its system drive.
On 02/10/2025 16:51, Frank Slootweg wrote:
But as another poster said: Microsoft should at least be able to
migrate Windows itself and any Microsoft software, but it can't even do that.
Are you sure?
Recently the Win 10 ESU enrollment has generated great debate about the Settings, Accounts, Windows backup feature. The whole point of that
feature is to sync a large collection of Windows settings, including a
list of modern apps in use, between all linked Windows devices. If you separately enable OneDrive to sync the libraries or other folders it
will do the same for your data. Hence, when a new PC is first booted and logged in to an MS account much of what you see will be familiar. Installation of traditional programs is an unknown quantity which is impossible to automate but at least part of the migration has been done automatically.
Ironically, many of those taking part in the Win 10 ESU enrollment
debate refuse to use the backup feature or even a Microsoft account -
but complain the loudest that Windows is unable to migrate itself.
* In fact I almost started one myself in the spring.-a I have some rough ground at the end of the drive, and wanted to burn some hedge trimmings, rotten wood, etc.-a When I tried to light the bonfire, it didn't light, but the surrounding dead grass growth from last year did.-a Initially, I wasn't too fussed, thinking it would just be a useful clear up of the rough ground, but as rapidly more of it took and it got close to the fence separating my property from a sheep pasture next door, some of which also was tinder-dry, I thought perhaps I ought to do something about it, and went and fetched a watering can and some buckets of water. -aIt was surprisingly difficult to put out, even over such a relatively small area!
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[...]
The lack of a migration tool can be what holds off many people from
migrating to W11 when it means a new computer. Easiest to implement
would be, I think, a clone of the old into the new computer, then boot a
CD that would do the upgrade of the system, with a new license.
That would indeed be the 'simplest' (not simple, but the simplest),
with the notes that:
- The CD would normally be a USB memory stick (very few, if any, new
computers come with an optical drive).
- Boot from CD/memory-stick is probably not needed as one could upgrade
(from Windows 10 to Windows 11) from an ISO file on the disk.
- A Windows 11 license is probably not needed, because it should be
stored in the non-volatile sorage (BIOS?) oof the new computer.
For most non-experienced people, cloning the old disk to the new is probably the hardest part and, frankly speaking, probably too hard.
On 2025-10-01 20:30, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 10/1/2025 8:49 AM, Java Jive wrote:
On 2025-10-01 13:29, Paul wrote:
* In fact I almost started one myself in the spring.-a I have some rough ground at the end of the drive, and wanted to burn some hedge trimmings, rotten wood, etc.-a When I tried to light the bonfire, it didn't light,
but the surrounding dead grass growth from last year did.-a Initially, I wasn't too fussed, thinking it would just be a useful clear up of the
rough ground, but as rapidly more of it took and it got close to the
fence separating my property from a sheep pasture next door, some of
which also was tinder-dry, I thought perhaps I ought to do something
about it, and went and fetched a watering can and some buckets of water.
-aIt was surprisingly difficult to put out, even over such a relatively small area!
Mind, it was quite common in that area to burn the grass every year, counting on the boundaries of each plot to stop it. But this time the boundaries were far and there were houses with gardens inside.
Remember that we cloned the disk content, W10 should detect the different hardware
and refuse to boot without a license update of some kind. Phone M$ support.
On 2025-10-02 19:25, Java Jive wrote:
* In fact I almost started one myself in the spring.-a I have some
rough ground at the end of the drive, and wanted to burn some hedge
trimmings, rotten wood, etc.-a When I tried to light the bonfire, it
didn't light, but the surrounding dead grass growth from last year
did.-a Initially, I wasn't too fussed, thinking it would just be a
useful clear up of the rough ground, but as rapidly more of it took
and it got close to the fence separating my property from a sheep
pasture next door, some of which also was tinder-dry, I thought
perhaps I ought to do something about it, and went and fetched a
watering can and some buckets of water. -a-aIt was surprisingly
difficult to put out, even over such a relatively small area!
I was in a similar situation when I was a boy. Me and my pals wanted to clear the dry grass to, dunno, plant a tent or something. So we thought, light it up, it will burn a circle, then we put it out.
MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:
On 02/10/2025 16:51, Frank Slootweg wrote:
But as another poster said: Microsoft should at least be able to
migrate Windows itself and any Microsoft software, but it can't even do
that.
Are you sure?
Recently the Win 10 ESU enrollment has generated great debate about the
Settings, Accounts, Windows backup feature. The whole point of that
feature is to sync a large collection of Windows settings, including a
list of modern apps in use, between all linked Windows devices. If you
separately enable OneDrive to sync the libraries or other folders it
will do the same for your data. Hence, when a new PC is first booted and
logged in to an MS account much of what you see will be familiar.
Installation of traditional programs is an unknown quantity which is
impossible to automate but at least part of the migration has been done
automatically.
Ironically, many of those taking part in the Win 10 ESU enrollment
debate refuse to use the backup feature or even a Microsoft account -
but complain the loudest that Windows is unable to migrate itself.
Well, we will first have to see if it works at all (for one computer
to another (with a newer OS i.e. 11). We've seen too many promises of 'seamless' <whatever>.
As to backing up Libraries and other folders to OneDrive: Hundreds of gigabytes, who is going to pay for the storage and who is going to
wait/pay for the data to transfer to and from the cloud?
The OneDrive function should be an 'also' function, not an 'only'
function, i.e. local network *and* local external drive *and* cloud (and
not only Microsoft's cloud).
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
The wide variety of offers of help and solutions indicate Windows
desperately needs a Migration Assistant like macOS. I wonder why such a
thing has never existed?
As Paul also mentioned, it's just way too complicated to automate,
because of the lack of integration between MS/Windows and third parties.
Case in point: I'm currently 'migrating' my wife's Windows 10 system
to a new Windows 11 one (a Mini-PC).
Her needs/uses are very, very simple: Just two browsers (Chrome and
Edge), e-mail (Thunderbird), a program for making photo-albums (Albelli)
and a few old Windows 7 games.
But even that is complicated, because, for example, Thunderbird uses a non-Library (i.e. not Documents, etc.) for its profile. So after you re-install Thunderbird, it does know that its old profile was somewhere
in the Documents library (it needs to be in a Library, otherwise File
History won't back it up).
I know how to (manually) fix that by copying the right folders and
files behind Thunderbird's back and know when to stop/re-start
Thunderbird, while doing so. But Windows isn't Thunderbird-aware and Thunderbird isn't really Windows-aware, it just happens to work a bit
when it doesn't rain.
Actually the third-party photo-album program worked rather smoothly,
just copy its data files, re-install the program and start it. Done.
Also the old Windows 7 games were not really a problem (only didn't
want to display in Dutch on an US English system).
Oh, and I 'forgot' all the umpteen settings and re-configuration which
had to be re-done, mostly system settings/configuration. Those are all
over the place, not something you can export and then re-import.
Some examples: Wi-Fi SSID/password, computer name, workgroup name,
File History, Windows Update, File Sharing, Accent colo[u]r, extra user Frank, File Explorer registry settings, Localization settings, etc.,
etc., etc..
And for me, the admin: Macrium Reflect and Open-Shell Menu.
But as another poster said: Microsoft should at least be able to
migrate Windows itself and any Microsoft software, but it can't even do
that.
On 3/10/2025 6:52 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-02 19:25, Java Jive wrote:
<Snip>
* In fact I almost started one myself in the spring.-a I have some
rough ground at the end of the drive, and wanted to burn some hedge
trimmings, rotten wood, etc.-a When I tried to light the bonfire, it
didn't light, but the surrounding dead grass growth from last year
did.-a Initially, I wasn't too fussed, thinking it would just be a
useful clear up of the rough ground, but as rapidly more of it took
and it got close to the fence separating my property from a sheep
pasture next door, some of which also was tinder-dry, I thought
perhaps I ought to do something about it, and went and fetched a
watering can and some buckets of water. -a-aIt was surprisingly
difficult to put out, even over such a relatively small area!
I was in a similar situation when I was a boy. Me and my pals wanted
to clear the dry grass to, dunno, plant a tent or something. So we
thought, light it up, it will burn a circle, then we put it out.
"plant a tent"?? Really?? I thought peopled "pitched" tents. ;-P
On 2025-10-03 13:43, Daniel70 wrote:[...]
On 3/10/2025 6:52 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I was in a similar situation when I was a boy. Me and my pals wanted
to clear the dry grass to, dunno, plant a tent or something. So we
thought, light it up, it will burn a circle, then we put it out.
"plant a tent"?? Really?? I thought peopled "pitched" tents. ;-P
English is not Carlos' first language, some leniency as to choice of
words is in order.
On 2025-10-03 13:43, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/10/2025 6:52 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-02 19:25, Java Jive wrote:
<Snip>
* In fact I almost started one myself in the spring.-a I have some
rough ground at the end of the drive, and wanted to burn some hedge
trimmings, rotten wood, etc.-a When I tried to light the bonfire, it
didn't light, but the surrounding dead grass growth from last year
did.-a Initially, I wasn't too fussed, thinking it would just be a
useful clear up of the rough ground, but as rapidly more of it took
and it got close to the fence separating my property from a sheep
pasture next door, some of which also was tinder-dry, I thought
perhaps I ought to do something about it, and went and fetched a
watering can and some buckets of water. -a-aIt was surprisingly
difficult to put out, even over such a relatively small area!
I was in a similar situation when I was a boy. Me and my pals wanted
to clear the dry grass to, dunno, plant a tent or something. So we
thought, light it up, it will burn a circle, then we put it out.
"plant a tent"?? Really?? I thought peopled "pitched" tents. ;-P
English is not Carlos' first language, some leniency as to choice of
words is in order.
On Thu, 10/2/2025 4:42 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Remember that we cloned the disk content, W10 should detect the different hardware
and refuse to boot without a license update of some kind. Phone M$ support.
I have some experience with this, doing it since Win2K.
There were definitely some bad responses from booting moved disks.
1) 30 days grace (means it will run, but after 30 days it will start prompting early about license)
2) 72 hours grace
3) drops dead on the spot (always amusing)
W10 and W11 are not like that. Response is
1) Infinite grace. slmgr /dlv will return that the OS is not licensed.
Keep using the PC.
Only the license is denied on a never-before-seen PC. The OSes continue
to run. This is VERY USEFUL for transplants.
If you install Win10 on a Win7 machine (no MSDM key in W7 era), do a Free Upgrade
to Win10 by Upgrade Install, the Win10 license is recorded with Microsoft. Fine.
Now, it is time to stop using the machine. Now, move the hard drive to
a brand new Win10 machine with Win10 MSDM key stored in the machine BIOS
in the ACPI table. Not only does the OS boot and install drivers for
the new hardware the OS discovered on the transplant, it accesses the
MSDM key, shows it to Microsoft, and boom, slmgr /dlv returns that
the moved drive is now licensed again. It's no long in Infinite Grace
as it was 30 seconds after booting in the strange machine, it has
activated itself again, using the key that came with the machine
and stored in the BIOS ACPI table.
"Retail" versions of the OS, support activation during the grace period,
and if you reuse the key on a new machine, the license would then be
invalid on the old machine. The terms for System Builder or Royalty OEM
are not supportive of OS-moving and maintaining a licensed status.
Infinite Grace means, sure, the machine is not "Licensed", but on
W10 and W11, only the Personalization Menu does not work. However,
if you need to remove the flowery backdrop, you can highlight a JPG
in your Downloads folder and use the menu option to make this your
background image, and the background can be changed. So while using
the Personalization menu would not allow an unlicensed machine to
have the background image changed, a context menu item in File Explorer,
does allow it to be changed. This is how I change the background
in unlicensed virtual machines to a flat color, so less storage
is wasted in screenshots.
On 2025-10-03 18:24, Java Jive wrote:
On 2025-10-03 13:43, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/10/2025 6:52 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-02 19:25, Java Jive wrote:
<Snip>
* In fact I almost started one myself in the spring.-a I have some rough ground at the end of the drive, and wanted to burn some hedge trimmings, rotten wood, etc.-a When I tried to light the bonfire, it didn't light, but the surrounding dead grass growth from last year did.-a Initially, I wasn't too fussed, thinking it would just be a useful clear up of the rough ground, but as rapidly more of it took and it got close to the fence separating my property from a sheep pasture next door, some of which also was tinder-dry, I thought perhaps I ought to do something about it, and went and fetched a watering can and some buckets of water. -a-aIt was surprisingly difficult to put out, even over such a relatively small area!
I was in a similar situation when I was a boy. Me and my pals wanted to clear the dry grass to, dunno, plant a tent or something. So we thought, light it up, it will burn a circle, then we put it out.
"plant a tent"?? Really?? I thought peopled "pitched" tents. ;-P
English is not Carlos' first language, some leniency as to choice of words is in order.
Thanks.
Googling the expression, I see it is quite different. Curious how languages differs.
So, how would you run this scenario? Cloning the hard disk from a W10 machine with
lots of software to a new W11 machine, and then upgrade "somehow" that new machine to W11, fully licensed?
It might be a way to migrate all the software, which is the OP problem.
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Oh, and I 'forgot' all the umpteen settings and re-configuration which
had to be re-done, mostly system settings/configuration. Those are all
over the place, not something you can export and then re-import.
That's absolutely something MS could have complete control over and a
solution provided for.
Some examples: Wi-Fi SSID/password, computer name, workgroup name,
File History, Windows Update, File Sharing, Accent colo[u]r, extra user
Frank, File Explorer registry settings, Localization settings, etc.,
etc., etc..
And for me, the admin: Macrium Reflect and Open-Shell Menu.
But as another poster said: Microsoft should at least be able to
migrate Windows itself and any Microsoft software, but it can't even do
that.
Yup.
Maybe at one time, the tent process was more of a "pitching" thing.
You would assemble a framework first (two vertical poles, tensioning
ropes to hold a load, center fold a "blanket" over the central rope). Pitching would be throwing the sheet, over the central rope that
runs between the two vertical poles. Yes, the poles have to be damn good.
This isn't a very good likeness, but you get the idea here, of "pitching"
the sheet, over your framework. To do this particular style, likely needs
"a few friends" to hold the corners steady while pitching (and driving
the stakes that tension the sheet). If instead, you build a self sustaining framework first, then one person (with a lot of time on their hands),
can pitch the sheet over top to finish the job. (Funny, the things
you forget, while figuring this stuff all out. I can't even remember
what these experimental tents looked like now. )
https://www.blockaderunner.com/images/2tent.jpg
But today it is more an "assembly" process, and something you want to
do in daylight, when you drop a key piece of it and can't find it.
If anything, the number of piece-parts has grown with time. You'd think
they would have luminescent paint on them.
https://www.snowys.com.au/blog/camping-for-beginners-pitch-a-tent-part-1/
It's like assembling a 747, from parts. So if your tent looks like
the second example, that's more "assembly" or "erection" when you
lift the final assembly by raising the central pole or whatever.
But the first style is more "pitching", during the phase where the
sheet goes over a central ridge member (whether rope or a bar).
If you wanted to do the first style, you could get one of the
roofing tarps at the hardware store, as they're one of the
few easily available things with the right dimensions for
the job. They come in various sizes. Then you can discover for
yourself, why the "pitching method" is such a pain in the ass.
The tarps for sale, don't last forever, so you have to consider
the "value" of the purchase for the job you have in mind. Sometimes
the tarp comes with "reinforced rings" for your ropes.
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
But as another poster said: Microsoft should at least be able to
migrate Windows itself and any Microsoft software, but it can't even do
that.
Yup.
On Fri, 10/3/2025 11:00 AM, Chris wrote:
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
But as another poster said: Microsoft should at least be able to
migrate Windows itself and any Microsoft software, but it can't even do
that.
Yup.
Details matter.
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-03 13:43, Daniel70 wrote:[...]
On 3/10/2025 6:52 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I was in a similar situation when I was a boy. Me and my pals wanted
to clear the dry grass to, dunno, plant a tent or something. So we
thought, light it up, it will burn a circle, then we put it out.
"plant a tent"?? Really?? I thought peopled "pitched" tents. ;-P
English is not Carlos' first language, some leniency as to choice of
words is in order.
Well, Daniel doesn't speak proper English either! None of 'them' do! :-)
On 2025-10-03 18:24, Java Jive wrote:
On 2025-10-03 13:43, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/10/2025 6:52 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-02 19:25, Java Jive wrote:
<Snip>
* In fact I almost started one myself in the spring.-a I have some
rough ground at the end of the drive, and wanted to burn some hedge >>>>> trimmings, rotten wood, etc.-a When I tried to light the bonfire, it >>>>> didn't light, but the surrounding dead grass growth from last year
did.-a Initially, I wasn't too fussed, thinking it would just be a
useful clear up of the rough ground, but as rapidly more of it took >>>>> and it got close to the fence separating my property from a sheep
pasture next door, some of which also was tinder-dry, I thought
perhaps I ought to do something about it, and went and fetched a
watering can and some buckets of water. -a-aIt was surprisingly
difficult to put out, even over such a relatively small area!
I was in a similar situation when I was a boy. Me and my pals wanted
to clear the dry grass to, dunno, plant a tent or something. So we
thought, light it up, it will burn a circle, then we put it out.
"plant a tent"?? Really?? I thought peopled "pitched" tents. ;-P
English is not Carlos' first language, some leniency as to choice of
words is in order.
Thanks.
Googling the expression, I see it is quite different. Curious how
languages differs.
On Fri, 10/3/2025 1:37 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:I think that the pitch was the ground on which the tent was erected.
On 2025-10-03 18:24, Java Jive wrote:
On 2025-10-03 13:43, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/10/2025 6:52 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-02 19:25, Java Jive wrote:
<Snip>
* In fact I almost started one myself in the spring.-a I have some rough ground at the end of the drive, and wanted to burn some hedge trimmings, rotten wood, etc.-a When I tried to light the bonfire, it didn't light, but the surrounding dead grass growth from last year did.-a Initially, I wasn't too fussed, thinking it would just be a useful clear up of the rough ground, but as rapidly more of it took and it got close to the fence separating my property from a sheep pasture next door, some of which also was tinder-dry, I thought perhaps I ought to do something about it, and went and fetched a watering can and some buckets of water. -a-aIt was surprisingly difficult to put out, even over such a relatively small area!
I was in a similar situation when I was a boy. Me and my pals wanted to clear the dry grass to, dunno, plant a tent or something. So we thought, light it up, it will burn a circle, then we put it out.
"plant a tent"?? Really?? I thought peopled "pitched" tents. ;-P
English is not Carlos' first language, some leniency as to choice of words is in order.
Thanks.
Googling the expression, I see it is quite different. Curious how languages differs.
Maybe at one time, the tent process was more of a "pitching" thing.
You would assemble a framework first (two vertical poles, tensioning
ropes to hold a load, center fold a "blanket" over the central rope). Pitching would be throwing the sheet, over the central rope that
runs between the two vertical poles. Yes, the poles have to be damn good.
This isn't a very good likeness, but you get the idea here, of "pitching"
the sheet, over your framework. To do this particular style, likely needs
"a few friends" to hold the corners steady while pitching (and driving
the stakes that tension the sheet). If instead, you build a self sustaining framework first, then one person (with a lot of time on their hands),
can pitch the sheet over top to finish the job. (Funny, the things
you forget, while figuring this stuff all out. I can't even remember
what these experimental tents looked like now. )
https://www.blockaderunner.com/images/2tent.jpg
But today it is more an "assembly" process, and something you want to
do in daylight, when you drop a key piece of it and can't find it.
If anything, the number of piece-parts has grown with time. You'd think
they would have luminescent paint on them.
https://www.snowys.com.au/blog/camping-for-beginners-pitch-a-tent-part-1/
It's like assembling a 747, from parts. So if your tent looks like
the second example, that's more "assembly" or "erection" when you
lift the final assembly by raising the central pole or whatever.
But the first style is more "pitching", during the phase where the
sheet goes over a central ridge member (whether rope or a bar).
If you wanted to do the first style, you could get one of the
roofing tarps at the hardware store, as they're one of the
few easily available things with the right dimensions for
the job. They come in various sizes. Then you can discover for
yourself, why the "pitching method" is such a pain in the ass.
The tarps for sale, don't last forever, so you have to consider
the "value" of the purchase for the job you have in mind. Sometimes
the tarp comes with "reinforced rings" for your ropes.
Paul
On 2025/10/3 16:0:11, Chris wrote:
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
[]
Oh, and I 'forgot' all the umpteen settings and re-configuration which
had to be re-done, mostly system settings/configuration. Those are all
over the place, not something you can export and then re-import.
That's absolutely something MS could have complete control over and a
That's probably the main difference between (some) Microsoft users and
(some) Apple users: MS users _want_ to have access to controls; Apple
users like to know they cannot break the system. (I believe much the
same applies to the Android/iOS split, but cannot comment with any
authority on either side there, not having a smartphone.)
Though with the wider spread of Windows, some newish users may have
joined the wrong camp (bought a Windows computer when they should have
bought into Apple). The other way round _might_ apply, due to the price differential.
On Fri, 10/3/2025 3:58 PM, Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/3/2025 11:00 AM, Chris wrote:
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
But as another poster said: Microsoft should at least be able to
migrate Windows itself and any Microsoft software, but it can't even do >>>> that.
Yup.
Details matter.
I've shown Carlos some examples of things that worked recently.
I moved a W10 from the Test Machine (4930K Intel) to the Big Machine (AMD). First, it boots as W10. Then I use my w11 USB install stick and
install W11 over top of W10. And now the W11 has all the same
desktop icons as were on the 4930K OS. My files and programs
are all there. No migrating to do. No Laplink. That's a migration
and upgrade, between two machines about eight years different in age.
Although, thinking about it, I've split my main win10 across two disks with OS on C: and apps/data on D: via hardlinks. your solution will likely cause me pain.
On 2025-10-04 15:19, Chris wrote:
Although, thinking about it, I've split my main win10 across two disks with OS on C: and apps/data on D: via hardlinks. your solution will likely cause me pain.
Your mistake was to put apps on D: - given the monolithic character of
the registry, and the fact that most Windows programs store data in it,
in Windows versions later than about 3 there has never been any point in separating OS & programs. IME, and I used to create the standard builds
to go on thousands of machines in a financial services partnership, you should put the OS & programs together on C: and put your data on D:,
that way you can change the OS 'underneath', so to speak, the data
without compromising your data. Of course, you'd be wise to back up
both OS/programs on C: and data on D: separately before doing anything
so drastic, nevertheless I've been working this way for years and rarely lost any data, and, on the very few occasions I have (because I made an absent-minded mistake), I was able to restore it tolerably quickly.
Of course, it's not quite as simple as the bare description above might appear to suggest, because, when you install each program, you have to configure it to store its data on D:, but that, though tedious, is a
once only task when creating a build.
Whether that's true or not is beside the point. MS could have created a system to help millions of people to migrate from one version of windows to another. Especially given then for most an upgrade results in a new
machine. It feels odd that they haven't.
Why is it so hard to even consider moving from 10 to 11?
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/10/3 16:0:11, Chris wrote:
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
[]
Oh, and I 'forgot' all the umpteen settings and re-configuration which >>>> had to be re-done, mostly system settings/configuration. Those are all >>>> over the place, not something you can export and then re-import.
That's absolutely something MS could have complete control over and a
That's probably the main difference between (some) Microsoft users and
(some) Apple users: MS users _want_ to have access to controls; Apple
users like to know they cannot break the system. (I believe much the
same applies to the Android/iOS split, but cannot comment with any
authority on either side there, not having a smartphone.)
Whether that's true or not is beside the point. MS could have created a system to help millions of people to migrate from one version of windows to another. Especially given then for most an upgrade results in a new
machine. It feels odd that they haven't.
Why is it so hard to even consider moving from 10 to 11?
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-04 15:19, Chris wrote:
Although, thinking about it, I've split my main win10 across two disks with >>> OS on C: and apps/data on D: via hardlinks. your solution will likely cause >>> me pain.
Your mistake was to put apps on D: - given the monolithic character of
the registry, and the fact that most Windows programs store data in it,
in Windows versions later than about 3 there has never been any point in
separating OS & programs. IME, and I used to create the standard builds
to go on thousands of machines in a financial services partnership, you
should put the OS & programs together on C: and put your data on D:,
that way you can change the OS 'underneath', so to speak, the data
without compromising your data. Of course, you'd be wise to back up
both OS/programs on C: and data on D: separately before doing anything
so drastic, nevertheless I've been working this way for years and rarely
lost any data, and, on the very few occasions I have (because I made an
absent-minded mistake), I was able to restore it tolerably quickly.
Of course, it's not quite as simple as the bare description above might
appear to suggest, because, when you install each program, you have to
configure it to store its data on D:, but that, though tedious, is a
once only task when creating a build.
What you describe is a good approach for professionally managed
systems, or systems managed by knowledgeable users, but for Joe Average
it's not so simple, because you need to modify/'move' all Libraries (Documents, Music, Pictures, etc.) to point to D:, otherwise File
History - to only standard backup for Joe - won't back up the (content
of) the Libraries. As the default configuration doesn't even *show*
which 'things' are Libraries, how is Joe to know?
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 10/3/2025 3:58 PM, Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/3/2025 11:00 AM, Chris wrote:
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
But as another poster said: Microsoft should at least be able to
migrate Windows itself and any Microsoft software, but it can't even do >>>>> that.
Yup.
Details matter.
I've shown Carlos some examples of things that worked recently.
I moved a W10 from the Test Machine (4930K Intel) to the Big Machine (AMD). >> First, it boots as W10. Then I use my w11 USB install stick and
install W11 over top of W10. And now the W11 has all the same
desktop icons as were on the 4930K OS. My files and programs
are all there. No migrating to do. No Laplink. That's a migration
and upgrade, between two machines about eight years different in age.
Nice. So why can't MS create a supported solution to help non-techy ppl?
Even techy ppl. The above doesn't daunt me but it's just extra faff I'd rather not have to deal with.
Although, thinking about it, I've split my main win10 across two disks with OS on C: and apps/data on D: via hardlinks. your solution will likely cause me pain.
On 2025-10-04 15:19, Chris wrote:
Although, thinking about it, I've split my main win10 across two disks with >> OS on C: and apps/data on D: via hardlinks. your solution will likely cause >> me pain.
Your mistake was to put apps on D: - given the monolithic character of
the registry, and the fact that most Windows programs store data in it,
in Windows versions later than about 3 there has never been any point in separating OS & programs. IME, and I used to create the standard builds
to go on thousands of machines in a financial services partnership, you should put the OS & programs together on C: and put your data on D:,
that way you can change the OS 'underneath', so to speak, the data
without compromising your data. Of course, you'd be wise to back up
both OS/programs on C: and data on D: separately before doing anything
so drastic, nevertheless I've been working this way for years and rarely lost any data, and, on the very few occasions I have (because I made an absent-minded mistake), I was able to restore it tolerably quickly.
Of course, it's not quite as simple as the bare description above might appear to suggest, because, when you install each program, you have to configure it to store its data on D:, but that, though tedious, is a
once only task when creating a build.
On 04/10/2025 15:19, Chris wrote:
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/10/3 16:0:11, Chris wrote:
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
[]
Oh, and I 'forgot' all the umpteen settings and re-configuration which >>>>> had to be re-done, mostly system settings/configuration. Those are all >>>>> over the place, not something you can export and then re-import.
That's absolutely something MS could have complete control over and a
That's probably the main difference between (some) Microsoft users and
(some) Apple users: MS users _want_ to have access to controls; Apple
users like to know they cannot break the system. (I believe much the
same applies to the Android/iOS split, but cannot comment with any
authority on either side there, not having a smartphone.)
Whether that's true or not is beside the point. MS could have created a
system to help millions of people to migrate from one version of windows to >> another. Especially given then for most an upgrade results in a new
machine. It feels odd that they haven't.
Why is it so hard to even consider moving from 10 to 11?
It is NOT hard to move from Windows 10 to 11. On the contrary Microsoft
do far more than Apple to maintain backward compatibility between major versions of the OS. Please explain your claim.
MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:
On 04/10/2025 15:19, Chris wrote:
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/10/3 16:0:11, Chris wrote:
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
[]
That's probably the main difference between (some) Microsoft users and >>>> (some) Apple users: MS users _want_ to have access to controls; AppleOh, and I 'forgot' all the umpteen settings and re-configuration which >>>>>> had to be re-done, mostly system settings/configuration. Those are all >>>>>> over the place, not something you can export and then re-import.
That's absolutely something MS could have complete control over and a >>>>
users like to know they cannot break the system. (I believe much the
same applies to the Android/iOS split, but cannot comment with any
authority on either side there, not having a smartphone.)
Whether that's true or not is beside the point. MS could have created a
system to help millions of people to migrate from one version of windows to >>> another. Especially given then for most an upgrade results in a new
machine. It feels odd that they haven't.
Why is it so hard to even consider moving from 10 to 11?
It is NOT hard to move from Windows 10 to 11. On the contrary Microsoft
do far more than Apple to maintain backward compatibility between major
versions of the OS. Please explain your claim.
I'm meaning when you buy a new machine - often to coincide with an upgrade
- how do you transfer all the settings, documents and apps (where possible) from the old machine to the new one?
Apple provides Migration Assistant for this and has done for many years. Where's MS's equivalent?
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-04 15:19, Chris wrote:
Although, thinking about it, I've split my main win10 across two disks with >>> OS on C: and apps/data on D: via hardlinks. your solution will likely cause >>> me pain.
Your mistake was to put apps on D: - given the monolithic character of
the registry, and the fact that most Windows programs store data in it,
in Windows versions later than about 3 there has never been any point in
separating OS & programs. IME, and I used to create the standard builds
to go on thousands of machines in a financial services partnership, you
should put the OS & programs together on C: and put your data on D:,
that way you can change the OS 'underneath', so to speak, the data
without compromising your data. Of course, you'd be wise to back up
both OS/programs on C: and data on D: separately before doing anything
so drastic, nevertheless I've been working this way for years and rarely
lost any data, and, on the very few occasions I have (because I made an
absent-minded mistake), I was able to restore it tolerably quickly.
Of course, it's not quite as simple as the bare description above might
appear to suggest, because, when you install each program, you have to
configure it to store its data on D:, but that, though tedious, is a
once only task when creating a build.
What you describe is a good approach for professionally managed
systems, or systems managed by knowledgeable users, but for Joe Average
it's not so simple, because you need to modify/'move' all Libraries (Documents, Music, Pictures, etc.) to point to D:, otherwise File
History - to only standard backup for Joe - won't back up the (content
of) the Libraries. As the default configuration doesn't even *show*
which 'things' are Libraries, how is Joe to know?
Apple provides Migration Assistant for this and has done for many years. Where's MS's equivalent?
On 10/04/2025 6:16 PM, Chris wrote:10 to 11 less so than some previous transitions, but the effort required
MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:
On 04/10/2025 15:19, Chris wrote:
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/10/3 16:0:11, Chris wrote:
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
[]
That's probably the main difference between (some) Microsoft users and >>>>> (some) Apple users: MS users _want_ to have access to controls; Apple >>>>> users like to know they cannot break the system. (I believe much the >>>>> same applies to the Android/iOS split, but cannot comment with anyOh, and I 'forgot' all the umpteen settings and re-configuration which >>>>>>> had to be re-done, mostly system settings/configuration. Those are all >>>>>>> over the place, not something you can export and then re-import.
That's absolutely something MS could have complete control over and a >>>>>
authority on either side there, not having a smartphone.)
Whether that's true or not is beside the point. MS could have created a Not at all: see below (the * point).
system to help millions of people to migrate from one version of windows to
another. Especially given then for most an upgrade results in a new
machine. It feels odd that they haven't.
Why is it so hard to even consider moving from 10 to 11?
It is NOT hard to move from Windows 10 to 11. On the contrary Microsoft
* That was my point above. It is Apple's tight control of what may rundo far more than Apple to maintain backward compatibility between major
versions of the OS. Please explain your claim.
I'm meaning when you buy a new machine - often to coincide with an upgrade >> - how do you transfer all the settings, documents and apps (where possible) >> from the old machine to the new one?
Apple provides Migration Assistant for this and has done for many years.
Where's MS's equivalent?
That's making the best of a bad job - because you have no option to doI use the migration to rethink all of the settings in the programs.
Fresh installation of each program, and reestablish the NEEDED setting > in the new installation. This cleans out those things I set and usedIndeed.
once, or that was set by mistake.
On 2025-10-04 16:37, Frank Slootweg wrote:software on D, an data on E (sometimes as partitions, sometimes as
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-04 15:19, Chris wrote:
Although, thinking about it, I've split my main win10 across two disks with
OS on C: and apps/data on D: via hardlinks. your solution will likely cause
me pain.
Your mistake was to put apps on D: - given the monolithic character of >>> the registry, and the fact that most Windows programs store data in it,
in Windows versions later than about 3 there has never been any point in >>> separating OS & programs. IME, and I used to create the standard builds Agreed. There was a point where some people tried to keep OS on C,
Indeed ...to go on thousands of machines in a financial services partnership, you
should put the OS & programs together on C: and put your data on D:,
that way you can change the OS 'underneath', so to speak, the data
without compromising your data. Of course, you'd be wise to back up
... and indeed.both OS/programs on C: and data on D: separately before doing anything
Or, as a private user, something to do for each piece of software youso drastic, nevertheless I've been working this way for years and rarely >>> lost any data, and, on the very few occasions I have (because I made an
absent-minded mistake), I was able to restore it tolerably quickly.
Of course, it's not quite as simple as the bare description above might
appear to suggest, because, when you install each program, you have to
configure it to store its data on D:, but that, though tedious, is a
once only task when creating a build.
Yes, I have never managed to learn the differences between hard links,
What you describe is a good approach for professionally managed
systems, or systems managed by knowledgeable users, but for Joe Average
it's not so simple, because you need to modify/'move' all Libraries
(Documents, Music, Pictures, etc.) to point to D:, otherwise File
History - to only standard backup for Joe - won't back up the (content>> of) the Libraries. As the default configuration doesn't even *show*
which 'things' are Libraries, how is Joe to know?
Which is the sort of reason why I never use libraries, IMO they're a
waste of time and effort, just KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid, or words to
that effect). They're amongst the first things I disable when creatingDefinitely.>
a new build. The last thing I want is Microsoft interfering in things > it doesn't need to.
In another place I described once how at college I was partneringSuch friends are excellent. I had one who was similarly good with words.
someone at badminton, and having a really, really bad day. The harder I tried to pull my weight, the worse I played. Eventually my partner, a > good friend with a wonderful sense of humour and a piquant turn of
phrase, threw up is hands in disgust and cried out: "Heaven help me, I'm surrounded by an idiot!". The game stopped because we all collapsed in laughter.
But that is what using modern versions of Windows as a professional user
is like, being surrounded by an idiot, a humourless, stubborn,
job's-worth one at that.
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-04 15:19, Chris wrote:
Although, thinking about it, I've split my main win10 across two disks with >>> OS on C: and apps/data on D: via hardlinks. your solution will likely cause >>> me pain.
Your mistake was to put apps on D: - given the monolithic character of
the registry, and the fact that most Windows programs store data in it,
in Windows versions later than about 3 there has never been any point in
separating OS & programs. IME, and I used to create the standard builds
to go on thousands of machines in a financial services partnership, you
should put the OS & programs together on C: and put your data on D:,
Yes I know that is the ideal professional way, but for home setups the data is tiny compared to software so makes little sense to have its own disk.
Also, I ran out of storage on C:
Of course, it's not quite as simple as the bare description above might
appear to suggest, because, when you install each program, you have to
configure it to store its data on D:, but that, though tedious, is a
once only task when creating a build.
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 10/3/2025 3:58 PM, Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/3/2025 11:00 AM, Chris wrote:
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
But as another poster said: Microsoft should at least be able to
migrate Windows itself and any Microsoft software, but it can't even do >>>>> that.
Yup.
Details matter.
I've shown Carlos some examples of things that worked recently.
I moved a W10 from the Test Machine (4930K Intel) to the Big Machine (AMD). >> First, it boots as W10. Then I use my w11 USB install stick and
install W11 over top of W10. And now the W11 has all the same
desktop icons as were on the 4930K OS. My files and programs
are all there. No migrating to do. No Laplink. That's a migration
and upgrade, between two machines about eight years different in age.
Nice. So why can't MS create a supported solution to help non-techy ppl?
Even techy ppl. The above doesn't daunt me but it's just extra faff I'd rather not have to deal with.
Although, thinking about it, I've split my main win10 across two disks with OS on C: and apps/data on D: via hardlinks. your solution will likely cause me pain.
On 2025/10/5 1:0:35, Java Jive wrote:
On 2025-10-04 16:37, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-04 15:19, Chris wrote:
Although, thinking about it, I've split my main win10 across two disks with
OS on C: and apps/data on D: via hardlinks. your solution will likely cause
me pain.
Your mistake was to put apps on D: - given the monolithic character of >>>> the registry, and the fact that most Windows programs store data in it, >>>> in Windows versions later than about 3 there has never been any point in >>>> separating OS & programs. IME, and I used to create the standard builds
Agreed. There was a point where some people tried to keep OS on C,
software on D, an data on E (sometimes as partitions, sometimes as
actual drives, sometimes a mixture); because of the monolithic character
you mention, I never took to that. I keep OS-and-software on C - roughly
a tenth of the drive, though with a maximum of about 50G for Windows 7
(I guessed at 75G for this 10, but that's filling up - only 19G free and
I've only had it a few months). I do let _some_ data stay on C, mainly
for software that actually refuses - or makes it very difficult - to do otherwise.
On 10/04/2025 6:16 PM, Chris wrote:
MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:I use the migration to rethink all of the settings in the programs.
On 04/10/2025 15:19, Chris wrote:
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/10/3 16:0:11, Chris wrote:
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
[]
That's probably the main difference between (some) Microsoft users and >>>>> (some) Apple users: MS users _want_ to have access to controls; Apple >>>>> users like to know they cannot break the system. (I believe much the >>>>> same applies to the Android/iOS split, but cannot comment with anyOh, and I 'forgot' all the umpteen settings and re-configuration which >>>>>>> had to be re-done, mostly system settings/configuration. Those are all >>>>>>> over the place, not something you can export and then re-import.
That's absolutely something MS could have complete control over and a >>>>>
authority on either side there, not having a smartphone.)
Whether that's true or not is beside the point. MS could have created a >>>> system to help millions of people to migrate from one version of windows to
another. Especially given then for most an upgrade results in a new
machine. It feels odd that they haven't.
Why is it so hard to even consider moving from 10 to 11?
It is NOT hard to move from Windows 10 to 11. On the contrary Microsoft
do far more than Apple to maintain backward compatibility between major
versions of the OS. Please explain your claim.
I'm meaning when you buy a new machine - often to coincide with an upgrade >> - how do you transfer all the settings, documents and apps (where possible) >> from the old machine to the new one?
Apple provides Migration Assistant for this and has done for many years.
Where's MS's equivalent?
Fresh installation of each program, and reestablish the NEEDED setting
in the new installation. This cleans out those things I set and used
once, or that was set by mistake.
On Sat, 10/4/2025 10:19 AM, Chris wrote:
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 10/3/2025 3:58 PM, Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/3/2025 11:00 AM, Chris wrote:
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
But as another poster said: Microsoft should at least be able to
migrate Windows itself and any Microsoft software, but it can't even do >>>>>> that.
Yup.
Details matter.
I've shown Carlos some examples of things that worked recently.
I moved a W10 from the Test Machine (4930K Intel) to the Big Machine (AMD). >>> First, it boots as W10. Then I use my w11 USB install stick and
install W11 over top of W10. And now the W11 has all the same
desktop icons as were on the 4930K OS. My files and programs
are all there. No migrating to do. No Laplink. That's a migration
and upgrade, between two machines about eight years different in age.
Nice. So why can't MS create a supported solution to help non-techy ppl?
Even techy ppl. The above doesn't daunt me but it's just extra faff I'd
rather not have to deal with.
Although, thinking about it, I've split my main win10 across two disks with >> OS on C: and apps/data on D: via hardlinks. your solution will likely cause >> me pain.
OK, I found another piece of the puzzle. Or rather, Microsoft shoved it
into my face.
I was running Win10 on the Test Machine (I'm setting up to "perfect"
the MBR2GPT transition thing). When all of a sudden, a Win10 "End-of-life" advert appeared, complete with placing an animation in place of the background
on my desktop.
So let's roll back a bit and review. We had the Windows Easy Transfer, and it only seemed to handle data files.
But for Migration, we have two issues to solve (for real users, like the people
in this group).
1) Metro.Apps
2) Legacy Win32 applications (Thunderbird and I guess Firefox).
OK, so we thought we had "nothing" for Migration. Well, the "marketing"
here (not entirely technical and not technical enough for a lawyer to
argue in court) tells us of the Evil Plan.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/back-up-and-restore-with-windows-backup-87a81f8a-78fa-456e-b521-ac0560e32338#id0ebh=windows_10
You will notice in the last little while, the hyper-marketing of the
"Windows Backup" and maybe the 5GB "free storage".
It turns out, the "Windows Backup" *is* the Migration plan.
Of course, the average user could easily blow through the 5GB if
something like their Downloads folder was included, but as Frank
points out, part of the backup focuses on "Libraries" and I don't
think Downloads is part of that. This means there is slightly
less material to back up. If (heaven forbid), the user were to
blow through their 5GB freebie, then dingdingding, a credit card
number and a monthly plan will soundly whip that limitation.
OK, so we're backing up some amount of data. Let's make a list
of the important stuff the marketing people tell us we'll get:
1) Libraries backed up. Could be restored. Maybe your screenshots
from the old machine, show up on a restore.
2) Metro.Apps -- the manifest or package identifier code is recorded.
It was always associated somehow, locally, with the machine, with any
License details recorded ("can use the program on up to ten machines").
During the Restore, the restore software reads the identifier code,
goes to the MicrosoftStore server and downloads the *most recent*
version of the code. If you were running version 23 on the old machine,
and a day or two passed, version 24 would now download. If Photos.App was
a 200MB kit, then a 200MB download would happen, but it isn't really
coming from the disk space of the 5GB storage area. It's coming off
the release server. Note that recently, we got a little toot, that
*you cannot stop Metro.Apps from updating*. The reason this just
happened to be mentioned, is for the people who will take exception
to the Restoral process for Windows Backup.
3) Each Metro.App has settings. We don't know exactly where those are
stored. Say Notepad.App, if there was such a thing (Win10 is Notepad.exe),
then the settings seem to be recorded in Windows Backup. If you had set
Notepad to "not remember" your previous session, then the Win11 machine
should also have Notepad set to "not remember". But as users, we also know
of a number of settings, that are beaten senseless by the Microsoft idea
of a "default that Microsoft likes" (that text on the lock screen image). When you
get the Windows 11 machine going, the Widgets will be turned on again,
when you had turned them off.
This then, is the Migration Plan. The competition for the Apple Corporation. It's Windows Backup :-/ Put a bag over your head, inhale the smoke, and
you too can pretend to be Migrating.
OK, full disclosure, where would this work "Seamlessly". Why, on two Windows-S computers (win32 not allowed). If the old Win10 machine was a Win10-S
and you did not flip it out of -S, and if the new machine was a Win11-S
and you did not flip that one either, and if both used MSAs so the
Windows Backup would work... then that would be a Perfect Migration
(minus your Downloads folder maybe, perhaps some email folder,
your bookmarks, assorted random projects stored in the wrong places). Microsoft could hold that up for the fan club and claim they were
... just as good as Apple (while smirking a bit into their sleeve).
So having described that, we'll have to wait until someone tests
this. It will be a slow process, determining what is not getting
migrated properly (in the "real" world, not the "marketing cartoon" world).
Who knows, maybe "T" will write the recipe for us.
Paul
I *think* you confirmed what I said yesterday in my comment about "Joe > Average". He is Microsoft's target for its perfect world of consumersAnd, on a purely business footing rather than morally, can you blame
who use their PC as a tool and are content to leave Microsoft to run it
and store their data. As a paid service of course. My concern is that in
the process they will make life increasingly difficult for anyone not wishing to join "Microsoft world".
On Sat, 10/4/2025 10:19 AM, Chris wrote:
Nice. So why can't MS create a supported solution to help non-techy ppl?
It turns out, the "Windows Backup" *is* the Migration plan.
Of course, the average user could easily blow through the 5GB if
something like their Downloads folder was included, but as Frank
points out, part of the backup focuses on "Libraries" and I don't
think Downloads is part of that. This means there is slightly
less material to back up. If (heaven forbid), the user were to
blow through their 5GB freebie, then dingdingding, a credit card
number and a monthly plan will soundly whip that limitation.
OK, full disclosure, where would this work "Seamlessly". Why, on two Windows-S computers (win32 not allowed).
Yes, I have never managed to learn the differences between hard links,
soft links, libraries, and so on - one complication too far.
I sense you
also mean things like the common "my documents", "my videos", etc.;
quite apart from the use of the "my" made it sound like "my little pony"
i. e. made us feel we were being treated as a little child (I notice
they eventually dropped the "my"!), _defaulting_ to such wasn't IMO a
Good Idea.
Good Idea. And certainly, hiding/obscuring where things _were_ in File Explorer wasn't ideal for even slightly-knowledgeable users.
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:I used UNIX ("is a product of Bell Laboratories") too - but somewhat
[...]
Yes, I have never managed to learn the differences between hard links,>> soft links, libraries, and so on - one complication too far.
As an 'ex'-UNIX type, I quite like symbolic links (and hard links to
some extent).
That said, once you get to understand them - or just use them, without
even realizing it -, I think (Windows) Libraries are quite nice and
quite transparent. And , as I said several times, File History -
Windows' standard backup mechanism, only backs up Libraries and nothing> else.
[]I sense you
also mean things like the common "my documents", "my videos", etc.;
Yes, That's what we mean (except from the non-longer applicable 'My'
bit, read on).
The 'My' thing is long gone, since Windows 8.I only relatively recently discovered that. I' say they're pretty
Good Idea. And certainly, hiding/obscuring where things _were_ in File>> Explorer wasn't ideal for even slightly-knowledgeable users.
They're not hidden, the 'Libraries' *section* in the left pane of File Explorer is hidden by default, but Documents, Music, Pictures, etc. are> just there and if you open one and then click on the 'location' bar at
the top, it will just say C:\Users\Frank\Documents, i.e. nothing is
hidden.
The problem is the 'slightly-knowledgeable user' who thinks (s)he understands them, but doesn't. As always, a bit of knowledge is aI'm just not sure what extra they give me. But again, since I'm not
dangerous thing! :-)
Moral: If you don't understand them, just - implicitly - use them and> leave them alone, i.e. do not unhide the 'Libraries' *section* in File
Explorer.
[...]--
Paul wrote:
OK, full disclosure, where would this work "Seamlessly". Why, on two
Windows-S computers (win32 not allowed).
Windows-S devices are a very narrow and limited subset and primarily in use in the Enterprise and Edu arena, where admins and admin managment tools control 'migration'.
-ai.e. not a significant value in the consumer (and primarily only for those consumers(even smaller subset) with Windows Home 'S' devices.
On 2025/10/5 16:51:58, Frank Slootweg wrote:
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
[...]
Yes, I have never managed to learn the differences between hard links,
soft links, libraries, and so on - one complication too far.
As an 'ex'-UNIX type, I quite like symbolic links (and hard links to
some extent).
I used UNIX ("is a product of Bell Laboratories") too - but somewhat
over 40 years ago!
On 2025/10/5 16:51:58, Frank Slootweg wrote:[...]
That said, once you get to understand them - or just use them, without even realizing it -, I think (Windows) Libraries are quite nice and
quite transparent. And , as I said several times, File History -
Windows' standard backup mechanism, only backs up Libraries and nothing else.
For my sins, I don't use it. I do my own backups - basically just
copies, though I use FreeFileSync to speed it.
Good Idea. And certainly, hiding/obscuring where things _were_ in File
Explorer wasn't ideal for even slightly-knowledgeable users.
They're not hidden, the 'Libraries' *section* in the left pane of File Explorer is hidden by default, but Documents, Music, Pictures, etc. are just there and if you open one and then click on the 'location' bar at
the top, it will just say C:\Users\Frank\Documents, i.e. nothing is
hidden.
I only relatively recently discovered that. I' say they're pretty
hidden! But we'll have to agree to disagree.>
The problem is the 'slightly-knowledgeable user' who thinks (s)he understands them, but doesn't. As always, a bit of knowledge is a
dangerous thing! :-)
Moral: If you don't understand them, just - implicitly - use them and leave them alone, i.e. do not unhide the 'Libraries' *section* in File Explorer.
I'm just not sure what extra they give me. But again, since I'm not
willing to put the time into learning that, it's my loss.>
Paul wrote:
On Sat, 10/4/2025 10:19 AM, Chris wrote:
Nice. So why can't MS create a supported solution to help non-techy ppl?
It turns out, the "Windows Backup" *is* the Migration plan.
I was wondering how long it was going to take the Win10/11 posters in
this group to realize Windows Backup is and will only(and ever) be the supported 'migration' method
-a- Note: W/r to 'Backup', migration may be an incorrect term.
Of course, the average user could easily blow through the 5GB if
something like their Downloads folder was included, but as Frank
points out, part of the backup focuses on "Libraries" and I don't
think Downloads is part of that. This means there is slightly
less material to back up. If (heaven forbid), the user were to
blow through their 5GB freebie, then dingdingding, a credit card
number and a monthly plan will soundly whip that limitation.
Downloads folder is not included. It can be included, but requires user intervention to move it into folder(that is included in Backup) or
change its location to be inside the MSA OneDrive's folder.
OK, full disclosure, where would this work "Seamlessly". Why, on two
Windows-S computers (win32 not allowed).
Windows-S devices are a very narrow and limited subset and primarily in
use in the Enterprise and Edu arena, where admins and admin managment
tools control 'migration'.
-ai.e. not a significant value in the consumer (and primarily only for those consumers(even smaller subset) with Windows Home 'S' devices.
On 2025-10-03 19:57, Paul wrote:
https://www.blockaderunner.com/images/2tent.jpg
But today it is more an "assembly" process, and something you want to
do in daylight, when you drop a key piece of it and can't find it.
If anything, the number of piece-parts has grown with time. You'd think
they would have luminescent paint on them.
Clearly, it's time to revisit what, despite it dating from the mid
1800s, many might argue still is the funniest book in the English
language, Jerome K Jerome's "Three Men In A Boat", because it's humour
is largely ironic and so appeals still to more modern tastes.-a I make no apologies for the length of this excerpt, because the way initially you
are lulled makes the resulting reality check all the more real and
amusing ...
<quote>
Should we "camp out" or sleep at inns?
George and I were for camping out.-a We said it would be so wild and
free, so patriarchal like.
Harris said: "How about when it rained?"
</quote>
On 2025-10-03 21:53, Java Jive wrote:
On 2025-10-03 19:57, Paul wrote:
-a-a-a https://www.blockaderunner.com/images/2tent.jpg
But today it is more an "assembly" process, and something you want to
do in daylight, when you drop a key piece of it and can't find it.
If anything, the number of piece-parts has grown with time. You'd think
they would have luminescent paint on them.
There are tents here that you simply throw and they spring into shape, automatically. The problem is folding them again.
Clearly, it's time to revisit what, despite it dating from the mid
1800s, many might argue still is the funniest book in the English
language, Jerome K Jerome's "Three Men In A Boat", because it's humour
is largely ironic and so appeals still to more modern tastes.-a I make
no apologies for the length of this excerpt, because the way initially
you are lulled makes the resulting reality check all the more real and
amusing ...
<quote>
Should we "camp out" or sleep at inns?
George and I were for camping out.-a We said it would be so wild and
free, so patriarchal like.
...
Harris said: "How about when it rained?"
ROTFL!-a X'-)
...
</quote>
Gosh, I remember.-a :-D
The chap basically only wrote this wonderful book. There is another one, with a trip to Germany, but was not a success.
On 2025-10-05 19:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-03 21:53, Java Jive wrote:
On 2025-10-03 19:57, Paul wrote:
-a-a-a https://www.blockaderunner.com/images/2tent.jpg
But today it is more an "assembly" process, and something you want to
do in daylight, when you drop a key piece of it and can't find it.
If anything, the number of piece-parts has grown with time. You'd think >>>> they would have luminescent paint on them.
There are tents here that you simply throw and they spring into shape,
automatically. The problem is folding them again.
Yes, I think I've seen those, they're hemi-spherical, aren't they?
Clearly, it's time to revisit what, despite it dating from the mid
1800s, many might argue still is the funniest book in the English
language, Jerome K Jerome's "Three Men In A Boat", because it's
humour is largely ironic and so appeals still to more modern tastes.
I make no apologies for the length of this excerpt, because the way
initially you are lulled makes the resulting reality check all the
more real and amusing ...
<quote>
Should we "camp out" or sleep at inns?
George and I were for camping out.-a We said it would be so wild and
free, so patriarchal like.
...
Harris said: "How about when it rained?"
ROTFL!-a X'-)
...
</quote>
Gosh, I remember.-a :-D
The chap basically only wrote this wonderful book. There is another
one, with a trip to Germany, but was not a success.
Glad you appreciated the quote.-a Yes, I've read his autobiography as
well, but IIRC he worked in newspapers, so, as you say, his only lasting works were "Three Men In A Boat" and "Three Men On A Bummel".
On 2025/10/4 23:16:43, Chris wrote:
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-04 15:19, Chris wrote:
Although, thinking about it, I've split my main win10 across two disks with
OS on C: and apps/data on D: via hardlinks. your solution will likely cause
me pain.
Your mistake was to put apps on D: - given the monolithic character of >>> the registry, and the fact that most Windows programs store data in it, >>> in Windows versions later than about 3 there has never been any point in >>> separating OS & programs. IME, and I used to create the standard builds >>> to go on thousands of machines in a financial services partnership, you >>> should put the OS & programs together on C: and put your data on D:,
[]
Yes I know that is the ideal professional way, but for home setups the data >> is tiny compared to software so makes little sense to have its own disk.
Really? Apart from "toy" machines (like those with only 64G - there were
even some 32 - of "storage" soldered to the motherboard) where the OS occupies most of what's available, I'd have thought most people's data
soon occupies far more space than their OS-plus-software. Videos,
especially, soon eat up the space - even if you don't store entire
movies (even SD, let alone anything higher). My data occupies about 230G
on D:, my C: is about 56G full (including _some_ data). (I only have 30
"full films", and many of those are shorts.)
Of course, I suppose some of today's users - maybe most? - may store
their data on someone else's computer (I avoid the phrase "in the cloud"
as that's what it actually means).
On Sat, 10/4/2025 10:19 AM, Chris wrote:
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 10/3/2025 3:58 PM, Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/3/2025 11:00 AM, Chris wrote:
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
But as another poster said: Microsoft should at least be able to
migrate Windows itself and any Microsoft software, but it can't even do >>>>>> that.
Yup.
Details matter.
I've shown Carlos some examples of things that worked recently.
I moved a W10 from the Test Machine (4930K Intel) to the Big Machine (AMD). >>> First, it boots as W10. Then I use my w11 USB install stick and
install W11 over top of W10. And now the W11 has all the same
desktop icons as were on the 4930K OS. My files and programs
are all there. No migrating to do. No Laplink. That's a migration
and upgrade, between two machines about eight years different in age.
Nice. So why can't MS create a supported solution to help non-techy ppl?
Even techy ppl. The above doesn't daunt me but it's just extra faff I'd
rather not have to deal with.
Although, thinking about it, I've split my main win10 across two disks with >> OS on C: and apps/data on D: via hardlinks. your solution will likely cause >> me pain.
OK, I found another piece of the puzzle. Or rather, Microsoft shoved it
into my face.
I was running Win10 on the Test Machine (I'm setting up to "perfect"
the MBR2GPT transition thing). When all of a sudden, a Win10 "End-of-life" advert appeared, complete with placing an animation in place of the background
on my desktop.
So let's roll back a bit and review. We had the Windows Easy Transfer, and it only seemed to handle data files.
But for Migration, we have two issues to solve (for real users, like the people
in this group).
1) Metro.Apps
2) Legacy Win32 applications (Thunderbird and I guess Firefox).
OK, so we thought we had "nothing" for Migration. Well, the "marketing"
here (not entirely technical and not technical enough for a lawyer to
argue in court) tells us of the Evil Plan.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/back-up-and-restore-with-windows-backup-87a81f8a-78fa-456e-b521-ac0560e32338#id0ebh=windows_10
You will notice in the last little while, the hyper-marketing of the
"Windows Backup" and maybe the 5GB "free storage".
It turns out, the "Windows Backup" *is* the Migration plan.
Of course, the average user could easily blow through the 5GB if
something like their Downloads folder was included, but as Frank
points out, part of the backup focuses on "Libraries" and I don't
think Downloads is part of that. This means there is slightly
less material to back up. If (heaven forbid), the user were to
blow through their 5GB freebie, then dingdingding, a credit card
number and a monthly plan will soundly whip that limitation.
OK, so we're backing up some amount of data. Let's make a list
of the important stuff the marketing people tell us we'll get:
1) Libraries backed up. Could be restored. Maybe your screenshots
from the old machine, show up on a restore.
2) Metro.Apps -- the manifest or package identifier code is recorded.
It was always associated somehow, locally, with the machine, with any
License details recorded ("can use the program on up to ten machines").
During the Restore, the restore software reads the identifier code,
goes to the MicrosoftStore server and downloads the *most recent*
version of the code. If you were running version 23 on the old machine,
and a day or two passed, version 24 would now download. If Photos.App was
a 200MB kit, then a 200MB download would happen, but it isn't really
coming from the disk space of the 5GB storage area. It's coming off
the release server. Note that recently, we got a little toot, that
*you cannot stop Metro.Apps from updating*. The reason this just
happened to be mentioned, is for the people who will take exception
to the Restoral process for Windows Backup.
3) Each Metro.App has settings. We don't know exactly where those are
stored. Say Notepad.App, if there was such a thing (Win10 is Notepad.exe),
then the settings seem to be recorded in Windows Backup. If you had set
Notepad to "not remember" your previous session, then the Win11 machine
should also have Notepad set to "not remember". But as users, we also know
of a number of settings, that are beaten senseless by the Microsoft idea
of a "default that Microsoft likes" (that text on the lock screen image). When you
get the Windows 11 machine going, the Widgets will be turned on again,
when you had turned them off.
This then, is the Migration Plan. The competition for the Apple Corporation. It's Windows Backup :-/ Put a bag over your head, inhale the smoke, and
you too can pretend to be Migrating.
OK, full disclosure, where would this work "Seamlessly". Why, on two Windows-S computers (win32 not allowed). If the old Win10 machine was a Win10-S
and you did not flip it out of -S, and if the new machine was a Win11-S
and you did not flip that one either, and if both used MSAs so the
Windows Backup would work... then that would be a Perfect Migration
(minus your Downloads folder maybe, perhaps some email folder,
your bookmarks, assorted random projects stored in the wrong places). Microsoft could hold that up for the fan club and claim they were
... just as good as Apple (while smirking a bit into their sleeve).
So having described that, we'll have to wait until someone tests
this. It will be a slow process, determining what is not getting
migrated properly (in the "real" world, not the "marketing cartoon" world).
Who knows, maybe "T" will write the recipe for us.
There are tents here that you simply throw and they spring into shape, > automatically. The problem is folding them again.Indeed!>
...
Clearly, it's time to revisit what, despite it dating from the mid
1800s, many might argue still is the funniest book in the English
language, Jerome K Jerome's "Three Men In A Boat", because it's humour
is largely ironic and so appeals still to more modern tastes.-a I make no >> apologies for the length of this excerpt, because the way initially you
are lulled makes the resulting reality check all the more real and
amusing ...
<quote>
Should we "camp out" or sleep at inns?
George and I were for camping out.-a We said it would be so wild and
free, so patriarchal like.
...
Harris said: "How about when it rained?"
ROTFL! X'-)
...
</quote>
Gosh, I remember. :-D
The chap basically only wrote this wonderful book. There is another one, with a trip to Germany, but was not a success.
On 2025/10/5 19:47:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Gosh, I remember. :-DThree Men on a Bummel, IIRR. To anyone that has some familiarity with
The chap basically only wrote this wonderful book. There is another one,
with a trip to Germany, but was not a success.
Germany and Germans, as amusing as the Boat one. (Though - both of them
- very much of a bygone age.)
On Sun, 10/5/2025 11:45 AM, ...winston wrote:
Paul wrote:
OK, full disclosure, where would this work "Seamlessly". Why, on two
Windows-S computers (win32 not allowed).
Windows-S devices are a very narrow and limited subset and primarily in use in the Enterprise and Edu arena, where admins and admin managment tools control 'migration'.
-ai.e. not a significant value in the consumer (and primarily only for those consumers(even smaller subset) with Windows Home 'S' devices.
My purpose was not to "sell" this plan to the audience,
as being practical in any way. I'm not bragging about it.
The marketing people have a plan of sorts, and the plan isn't
really any better than Windows Easy Transfer, in terms
of the thoroughness and "guaranteed-carefree" results.
While I can kinda/sorta do these things for myself, I would
not feel right offering my services as a "migration expert"
with a "money-back guarantee". That would be pushing my luck.
Customers would be bringing in Explorer Patcher, WindHawk,
and OpenShell, just to annoy me (in other words the customer
lards up the machine with crap, just to test me). Maybe I
would find a copy of Norton GoBack running on a machine.
[]
Of course, I suppose some of today's users - maybe most? - may store
their data on someone else's computer (I avoid the phrase "in the cloud"
as that's what it actually means).
On Sun, 5 Oct 2025 10:04:57 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
wrote:
[]
Of course, I suppose some of today's users - maybe most? - may store
their data on someone else's computer (I avoid the phrase "in the cloud"
as that's what it actually means).
My only problem with that statement is that some people might actually believe that 'the cloud' means "someone else's computer". "Someone else"
can certainly offer to host someone's data, but I don't think anyone
would confuse that with 'the cloud'.
On 7/10/2025 7:11 am, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 5 Oct 2025 10:04:57 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>Pick Me! Someone MUST own every computer out there in the big wide
wrote:
[]
Of course, I suppose some of today's users - maybe most? - may store
their data on someone else's computer (I avoid the phrase "in the cloud" >>> as that's what it actually means).
My only problem with that statement is that some people might actually
believe that 'the cloud' means "someone else's computer". "Someone else"
can certainly offer to host someone's data, but I don't think anyone
would confuse that with 'the cloud'.
world. 'They' might allow other people to store other peoples data on 'Their' computers and 'They' may or may not make use of said Data ....
but I don't trust 'Them' all!!
Daniel70 wrote:
On 7/10/2025 7:11 am, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 5 Oct 2025 10:04:57 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>Pick Me! Someone MUST own every computer out there in the big wide
wrote:
[]
Of course, I suppose some of today's users - maybe most? - may store>>>> their data on someone else's computer (I avoid the phrase "in the cloud"
as that's what it actually means).
My only problem with that statement is that some people might actually
believe that 'the cloud' means "someone else's computer". "Someone else" >>> can certainly offer to host someone's data, but I don't think anyone
would confuse that with 'the cloud'.
world. 'They' might allow other people to store other peoples data on >> 'Their' computers and 'They' may or may not make use of said Data ....
but I don't trust 'Them' all!!
Char explained(it) accurately.
Someone is singular
- unless a sole person is hosting a cloud for others storage it would
then be true.
The correct term for more than one, as Char noted(in reference to
others' belief) and also to more than one person - 'some people'
- 'someone' doesn't own every computer out there.
- 'someone else' isn't the cloud
In fact, 'some people' would be a poor choice of the term for companies hosting storage in the cloud.
OK, I should have said something like "I suppose some of today's users - maybe most? - may store their data on computers controlled by others".
But it's more clumsy (-:
On Tue, 10/7/2025 1:44 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:You are preaching to the converted here!
OK, I should have said something like "I suppose some of today's users -
maybe most? - may store their data on computers controlled by others".>> But it's more clumsy (-:
The track record of other people handling your data, isn't
all that good. Look at some of the recent track records,
for public facilities that got knocked over. It's only
a matter of time, before they get into your particular
"data barn" and burn it down.
Paul (who is running a backup in the other monitor)
On 2025/10/7 18:52:2, Paul wrote:
On Tue, 10/7/2025 1:44 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
OK, I should have said something like "I suppose some of today's users - >>> maybe most? - may store their data on computers controlled by others".
But it's more clumsy (-:
The track record of other people handling your data, isn't
all that good. Look at some of the recent track records,
for public facilities that got knocked over. It's only
a matter of time, before they get into your particular
"data barn" and burn it down.
Paul (who is running a backup in the other monitor)
You are preaching to the converted here!
I just acknowledged Char's point that my (flippant) use of "storing it
on someone else's computer" _could_ be misinterpreted as meaning a
_single_ "someone else", such as a friend, rather than a company.
Daniel70 wrote:
On 7/10/2025 7:11 am, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 5 Oct 2025 10:04:57 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>Pick Me! Someone MUST own every computer out there in the big wide
wrote:
[]
Of course, I suppose some of today's users - maybe most? - may store
their data on someone else's computer (I avoid the phrase "in the cloud" >>>> as that's what it actually means).
My only problem with that statement is that some people might actually
believe that 'the cloud' means "someone else's computer". "Someone else" >>> can certainly offer to host someone's data, but I don't think anyone
would confuse that with 'the cloud'.
world. 'They' might allow other people to store other peoples data on
'Their' computers and 'They' may or may not make use of said Data ....
but I don't trust 'Them' all!!
Char explained(it) accurately.
Someone is singular
- unless a sole person is hosting a cloud for others storage it would
then be true.
The correct term for more than one, as Char noted(in reference to
others' belief) and also to more than one person - 'some people'
- 'someone' doesn't own every computer out there.
- 'someone else' isn't the cloud
In fact, 'some people' would be a poor choice of the term for companies >hosting storage in the cloud.
J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/10/7 18:52:2, Paul wrote::)
On Tue, 10/7/2025 1:44 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
OK, I should have said something like "I suppose some of today's users - >>>> maybe most? - may store their data on computers controlled by others". >>>> But it's more clumsy (-:
The track record of other people handling your data, isn't
all that good. Look at some of the recent track records,
for public facilities that got knocked over. It's only
a matter of time, before they get into your particular
"data barn" and burn it down.
Paul (who is running a backup in the other monitor)
You are preaching to the converted here!
I just acknowledged Char's point that my (flippant) use of "storing it
on someone else's computer" _could_ be misinterpreted as meaning a
_single_ "someone else", such as a friend, rather than a company.
My reply was to Daniel70(which continued the 'someone else' term)
The 'trust' issue comment/concern(Daniel and someone or anyone else)
though is valid - the possibilities of not having access, security
breach, subscription expiration, death, etc. do exist.
- Note: Does not mean that 'cloud storage' can't be utilized, but as
the sole source of storage(no local or offline backup) concern should be considered before taking that type of leap(of faith).
Thanks for cleaning that up. :)
If people could walk into a cloud provider's data center, they might be> amazed at how different it is from simply "someone else's computer".
..winston <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/10/7 18:52:2, Paul wrote::)
On Tue, 10/7/2025 1:44 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
OK, I should have said something like "I suppose some of today's users - >>>>> maybe most? - may store their data on computers controlled by others". >>>>> But it's more clumsy (-:
The track record of other people handling your data, isn't
all that good. Look at some of the recent track records,
for public facilities that got knocked over. It's only
a matter of time, before they get into your particular
"data barn" and burn it down.
Paul (who is running a backup in the other monitor)
You are preaching to the converted here!
I just acknowledged Char's point that my (flippant) use of "storing it
on someone else's computer" _could_ be misinterpreted as meaning a
_single_ "someone else", such as a friend, rather than a company.
My reply was to Daniel70(which continued the 'someone else' term)
The 'trust' issue comment/concern(Daniel and someone or anyone else)
though is valid - the possibilities of not having access, security
breach, subscription expiration, death, etc. do exist.
- Note: Does not mean that 'cloud storage' can't be utilized, but as
the sole source of storage(no local or offline backup) concern should be
considered before taking that type of leap(of faith).
That can be said for any single form of data storage. Local backup has different failure modes that are arguably more likely.
I like the low monthly fees and the great customer service
I get with my local backups :-) <Paul> "Where is my data ?
[Rotates chair] "You silly git, it's in the other room".
That's the kind of customer service I get.
Paul
On Wed, 10/8/2025 2:51 AM, Chris wrote:
..winston <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/10/7 18:52:2, Paul wrote::)
On Tue, 10/7/2025 1:44 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
OK, I should have said something like "I suppose some of today's users - >>>>>> maybe most? - may store their data on computers controlled by others". >>>>>> But it's more clumsy (-:
The track record of other people handling your data, isn't
all that good. Look at some of the recent track records,
for public facilities that got knocked over. It's only
a matter of time, before they get into your particular
"data barn" and burn it down.
Paul (who is running a backup in the other monitor)
You are preaching to the converted here!
I just acknowledged Char's point that my (flippant) use of "storing it >>>> on someone else's computer" _could_ be misinterpreted as meaning a
_single_ "someone else", such as a friend, rather than a company.
My reply was to Daniel70(which continued the 'someone else' term)
The 'trust' issue comment/concern(Daniel and someone or anyone else)
though is valid - the possibilities of not having access, security
breach, subscription expiration, death, etc. do exist.
- Note: Does not mean that 'cloud storage' can't be utilized, but as
the sole source of storage(no local or offline backup) concern should be >>> considered before taking that type of leap(of faith).
That can be said for any single form of data storage. Local backup has
different failure modes that are arguably more likely.
I like the low monthly fees and the great customer service
I get with my local backups :-) <Paul> "Where is my data ?
[Rotates chair] "You silly git, it's in the other room".
That's the kind of customer service I get.
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 10/8/2025 2:51 AM, Chris wrote:
..winston <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/10/7 18:52:2, Paul wrote::)
On Tue, 10/7/2025 1:44 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
OK, I should have said something like "I suppose some of today's users -
maybe most? - may store their data on computers controlled by others". >>>>>>> But it's more clumsy (-:
The track record of other people handling your data, isn't
all that good. Look at some of the recent track records,
for public facilities that got knocked over. It's only
a matter of time, before they get into your particular
"data barn" and burn it down.
Paul (who is running a backup in the other monitor)
You are preaching to the converted here!
I just acknowledged Char's point that my (flippant) use of "storing it >>>>> on someone else's computer" _could_ be misinterpreted as meaning a
_single_ "someone else", such as a friend, rather than a company.
My reply was to Daniel70(which continued the 'someone else' term)
The 'trust' issue comment/concern(Daniel and someone or anyone else)
though is valid - the possibilities of not having access, security
breach, subscription expiration, death, etc. do exist.
- Note: Does not mean that 'cloud storage' can't be utilized, but as
the sole source of storage(no local or offline backup) concern should be >>>> considered before taking that type of leap(of faith).
That can be said for any single form of data storage. Local backup has
different failure modes that are arguably more likely.
I like the low monthly fees and the great customer service
I get with my local backups :-) <Paul> "Where is my data ?
[Rotates chair] "You silly git, it's in the other room".
That's the kind of customer service I get.
A bit rude, but you get what you pay for ;)
On Wed, 10/8/2025 1:07 PM, Chris wrote:
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
I like the low monthly fees and the great customer service
I get with my local backups :-) <Paul> "Where is my data ?
[Rotates chair] "You silly git, it's in the other room".
That's the kind of customer service I get.
A bit rude, but you get what you pay for ;)
OK, now this is a lesson worth hearing about.
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/storage/south-korean-government-learns-the-importance-of-backups-the-hard-way-after-catastrophic-fire-858-terabytes-of-data-goes-up-in-magic-smoke
"While a datacenter fire is an event that can happen anywhere at any time,
it's more than a little puzzling to find that the G-Drive data was lost because,
according to an unnamed source, "[it] couldn't have a backup due to its large capacity." <=== Hahaha, just like some USENETters...
858 terabytes is a big number for a household, but barely registers in the scale of
datacenter storage, where entire petabytes are doled out like candy.
Paul
