From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

On 2025-09-23 17:50:08 +0000, R.Wieser said:

Arlen,

You have a history of claiming that and similar, but always
"forgetting" to provide support for it. Your assurance here is
therefore worth absolutily nothing.

Name a single fact I stated in the post to Chris you feel is wrong.

I'm sorry that you could not parse my post far enough to see that I
already gave you several. Not really my problem though.

<snip>

Nobody needs to name a *single* "fact" that the village idiot "Arlen"
posts which is wrong ... when absolutely *EVERYTHING* that moron posts
is completely wrong!! :-\

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

On 9/23/2025 3:15 PM, Your Name wrote:

Nobody needs to name a *single* "fact" that the village idiot "Arlen"
posts which is wrong ... when absolutely *EVERYTHING* that moron posts
is completely wrong!!-a-a Efyo

I wish everyone would simply filter him out. He craves attention and
you all keep giving it to him. Kill file on him made this iPhone group
usable again. I see recently he has been trying to destroy the windows
groups like he did the phone groups with the same method of starting out asking simple questions, then delving into complete chaos. Not worth
reading anything he posts, and responding to him is worse.

KILL FILE THE FUCKER AND BE DONE WITH IT!
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Chris wrote:

Name a single fact I stated in the post to Chris you feel is wrong.

What is even the point? You never, ever accept anything. It's always deny, deflect, ignore. Always.

Heh heh heh...
Apple trolls claim everything they simply can't understand, must be wrong.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

You're the one who said every single fact was wrong, Chris. Not me.
Yet you can't name even one fact I had posted in this thread that's wrong.

It's what you Apple trolls do, Chris.

To you Apple trolls, every fact you are unaware of, to you, must be wrong. Which is every fact.

Do you even understand the difference (between fact & assessment of fact)? >>
This is a fact:
iOS has had about 1-1/2 times the known exploits as had Android.

Yet again you're wrong. That's an assertion or claim. Not a fact.

It's a fact Chris. It's right there in your face, Chris.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

It's basic arithmetic math, Chris.

The fact you claim all math must be wrong that you don't know, simply means you're an Apple troll who can't even count the number of exploits listed.

This is a credible cite for that fact:
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

No it isn't. Simply because you can't count and have never proven your assertion. Which ultimately makes it a lie.

Heh heh heh... I've done the math Chris. You can't do the math.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

So you claim simple arithmetic math must be wrong.
It's what you Apple trolls do.

Do you want extra credit, Chris?
Q: Why doesn't the 1-1/2 iOS:Android ratio change from year to year, Chris?
A: ?

Note that when you can answer *that* question, it will show for the first
time in your entire life that you actually understood what adults can.

Note that it takes no brains to claim that cite doesn't say that fact, but >> it takes actual intelligence to pull the information out of that cite.

Which you lack. As you've never shown your workings.

Plus the fact that you don't accept that CISA is not a source of absolute truth and therefore cannot be used to make absolute assertions.

An intelligent person would accept this and move on.

Chris,

Prove me wrong, Chris. Do the math.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

Heh heh heh... you can't. You don't know how to add up numbers, Chris.

Heh heh heh... since you can't do the math, you claim the math is wrong. Because you can't do it yourself.

I've studied you strange Apple trolls for years, just as Dunning & Kruger studied the strange people who lack basic cognitive skills.

I already knew, years ago, when I first taught you about the CISA report,
that you would outright deny every single thing reported in that report.

Why?
Because it shows the iOS exploits to be far more than Android exploits.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

That's just a fact, Chris.
That you can't comprehend that fact doesn't make that fact not a fact.

Do the math before you respond since all you're doing is proving my point.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

Apple trolls deny all facts because they can't stand those facts exist.

It's what Apple trolls do.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Arlen,

Chris wrote:

Name a single fact I stated in the post to Chris you feel is wrong.

What is even the point? You never, ever accept anything. It's always
deny,
deflect, ignore. Always.

Heh heh heh...
Apple trolls claim everything they simply can't understand, must be wrong.

Heh heh heh...

Arlen is the troll who refuses to even respond to anything he simply can't understand - and therefore it - must be wrong.

Funny how such accusations work two ways, isn't it ? :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Your Name,

I'm sorry that you could not parse my post far enough to see that
I already gave you several. Not really my problem though.

<snip>

Nobody needs to name a *single* "fact" that the village idiot "Arlen"
posts which is wrong ... when absolutely *EVERYTHING* that moron posts is completely wrong!! :-\

well, he sometimes, by accident or not, /does/ say things that are correct.

Like in this thread where he mentioned the live-cycle and end-of-support for Win 10 correctly.

... but somehow he can't seem to combine all the facts and "facts"* he
gathered to arrive at "assessments", claims and "facts" that have much of anything to do with reality.

* it doesn't help that some of the "facts" Arlen refers to are just someone elses assessments put on a webpage.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

On 9/23/2025 12:09 AM, R.Wieser wrote:

sms,

Is Win 10 upgradable ? No. Win 11 *refuses* to be installed on Win 10
hardware.

This is not really true.

See
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-upgrade-your-incompatible-windows-10-pc-to-windows-11-for-free/>

I did this on one Ryzen 5 Windows 10 laptop we have and it worked just
fine.

I don't think you ever noticed the title of that link.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

LOL, you stated " Win 11 *refuses* to be installed on Win 10
hardware."

That is untrue. What is true is that it requires a workaround.

Actually, Microsoft itself was allowing Windows 11 to be installed on
that same hardware, without any workaround necessary, for a long time
before prohibiting it due to new minimum hardware requirements.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

sms,

LOL, you stated " Win 11 *refuses* to be installed on Win 10
hardware."

That is untrue. What is true is that it requires a workaround.

Noipe, that statement is quite true.

That you refuse Win 11's refusal (and force it) doesn't mean that it isn't a refusal I'm afraid.

And that refusal is what most users* will ever see when they press the "upgrade to win 11" button.

* the few technically inclined users like you excepted.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Chris wrote:

What's so wrong with you Apple trolls that you can't comprehend facts?

Again, you've proven me correct. You simply do not understand how to make a cogent argument. Try going back to college to learn and/or get a book to
help you. Take a picture of it if it that's what you need.

For decades, it's been the same story with you Apple flat-earthers, Chris.
You claim out of religious beliefs that the earth is flat, Chris.
The reason you claim the earth is flat is Apple told you it's flat.

Once Apple marketing has fed you that the earth is flat, no amount of adult discussion will ever disabuse you of that notion you believe it's flat.

There's something very wrong with you rather strange Apple trolls, Chris.
No other operating system newsgroup has such odd people like you, Chris.

Just the Apple operating systems newsgroups have you strange MAGA trolls.
All you care about is to make Apple great again at any cost whatsoever.

Even to the point that you claim the earth is flat and no amount of facts
will change your religious belief system fed to you by Apple marketing.

see sig
--
Note that the "earth is flat" is a stand-in for facts about Apple product.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Chris wrote:

What's so wrong with you Apple trolls that you can't comprehend facts?

Again, you've proven me correct. You simply do not understand how to make a cogent argument. Try going back to college to learn and/or get a book to
help you. Take a picture of it if it that's what you need.

For decades, it's been the same story with you Apple flat-earthers, Chris.
You claim out of religious beliefs that the earth is flat, Chris.
The reason you claim the earth is flat is Apple told you it's flat.

Once Apple marketing has fed you that the earth is flat, no amount of adult discussion will ever disabuse you of that notion you believe it's flat.

There's something very wrong with you rather strange Apple trolls, Chris.
No other operating system newsgroup has such odd people like you, Chris.

Just the Apple operating systems newsgroups have you strange MAGA trolls.
All you care about is to make Apple great again at any cost whatsoever.

Even to the point that you claim the earth is flat and no amount of facts
will change your religious belief system fed to you by Apple marketing.

see sig
--
Note that the "earth is flat" is a stand-in for facts about Apple product.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Chris wrote:

You never respond to those, of course: deny, deflect, ignore.

Just responding to your crap, wastes my valuable time & that of others.
You Apple trolls claim the earth is flat.

Why?
Because Apple marketing told you that the earth is flat.

There is no amount of adult discourse that can possibly occur with you.
Because you insist the earth is flat out of nothing but religious belief.

If an adult even tries to reason with you that the earth is not flat, all you'll do is never click on the links and simply say all facts are wrong.

It's what you rather strange Apple trolls do, Chris.
Every one of you Apple trolls do this, Chris.
Alan Baker
Alan Browne
Haemactylus
-hh
JF Mezei
Jolly Roger
Lewis
nospam
Tom Elam
Tyrone
Your Name

To be clear, a few of the non-Apple trolls do what you Apple trolls do.
Kerr-Mudd, John
MikeS
Rudy Wieser
sticks

And a few others I don't recall offhand.

All you strange trolls are similar in that none of you ever add any value.
You only subtract value from Usenet.

Just responding to your crap, wastes my valuable time & that of others.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Arlen,

Chris wrote:

You never respond to those, of course: deny, deflect, ignore.

Just responding to your crap, wastes my valuable time & that
of others.

No arlen, just yours.

Than again, *everyone* wastes your time when they do not agree with you.

You Apple trolls claim the earth is flat.

You must have a rather sore thumb with always sucking "facts" like that
outof it.

To be clear, a few of the non-Apple trolls do what you Apple
trolls do.

...

Rudy Wieser

...

Phew, I was a bit afraid that I *wouldn't* be in your "bad person" list.

Hey, I've shown you time-and-again that I don't believe your "facts", claims and now "assessments", so I deserve to be in it. :-)

By the way, did you ever figure out what a "cite" is supposed to be looking like ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

On 2025-09-24 18:05:46 +0000, R.Wieser said:

Arlen,

Chris wrote:

You never respond to those, of course: deny, deflect, ignore.

Just responding to your crap, wastes my valuable time & that
of others.

No arlen, just yours.

Than again, *everyone* wastes your time when they do not agree with you.

You Apple trolls claim the earth is flat.

You must have a rather sore thumb with always sucking "facts" like that outof it.

"thumb"?!?
He gets all his "facts" out of his backside / bumhole, just like Trump
the Chump, who is probably the village idiot Arlen's idol.

To be clear, a few of the non-Apple trolls do what you Apple
trolls do.

...

Rudy Wieser

...

Phew, I was a bit afraid that I *wouldn't* be in your "bad person" list.

Hey, I've shown you time-and-again that I don't believe your "facts",
claims and now "assessments", so I deserve to be in it. :-)

By the way, did you ever figure out what a "cite" is supposed to be
looking like ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Your Name wrote on 9/24/2025 4:27 PM:

On 2025-09-24 18:05:46 +0000, R.Wieser said:

Arlen,

Chris wrote:

You never respond to those, of course: deny, deflect, ignore.

Just responding to your crap, wastes my valuable time & that
of others.

No arlen, just yours.

Than again, *everyone* wastes your time when they do not agree with you.

You Apple trolls claim the earth is flat.

You must have a rather sore thumb with always sucking "facts" like
that outof it.

"thumb"?!?
He gets all his "facts" out of his backside / bumhole, just like Trump
the Chump, who is probably the village idiot Arlen's idol.

To be clear, a few of the non-Apple trolls do what you Apple
trolls do.

...

Rudy Wieser

...

Phew, I was a bit afraid that I *wouldn't* be in your "bad person" list.

Hey, I've shown you time-and-again that I don't believe your "facts",
claims and now "assessments", so I deserve to be in it. :-)

By the way, did you ever figure out what a "cite" is supposed to be
looking like ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

He sure hates apples.



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

On 9/24/2025 8:45 AM, R.Wieser wrote:

sms,

LOL, you stated " Win 11 *refuses* to be installed on Win 10
hardware."

That is untrue. What is true is that it requires a workaround.

Noipe, that statement is quite true.

That you refuse Win 11's refusal (and force it) doesn't mean that it isn't a refusal I'm afraid.

And that refusal is what most users* will ever see when they press the "upgrade to win 11" button.

* the few technically inclined users like you excepted.

Not sure what upside you see in lying, but whatever lights your board.

I ran into this whole thing two weeks ago when my wife asked me to
upgrade her HP laptop to Windows 11 from Windows 10 because she was
having an issue running an application in Windows 10. TPM was not built
into her laptop which is about four years old.

Took me all of five minutes to a) Google the workaround, and b) perform it.

Had I upgraded to Window 11 as soon as it was available, no workaround
would have been required since Microsoft didn't even require TPM for
Windows 11 until December 3, 2024, more than three years after it was launched, I just never bothered to do the upgrade sooner.

Actually, it's the Mac that requires a much more complicated workaround
to install the latest version of OS-X, using the OpenCore Legacy
Patcher. I've done this too! See <https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/1ilxd9o/how_to_install_macos_ventura_or_newer_on_an_older/>.

Certainly I wish that Microsoft and Apple didn't make these upgrades
require a workaround, but it's understandable that the hardware
requirements change.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

sms,

Not sure what upside you see in lying, but whatever lights your board.

...

Had I upgraded to Window 11 as soon as it was available, no workaround
would have been required since Microsoft didn't even require TPM for
Windows 11 until December 3, 2024

So, whats the lie again ? That you tell us that the times have changed, but that you nonetheless want to make it sound as if "the old times" are still valid today ? That one ?

Took me all of five minutes to a) Google the workaround, and b) perform
it.

A craftsman was asked why he billed so much while all he did was taking his hammer and hitting the device. "Well," he said ,"you're paying for me
knowing that I can solve the problem by tapping the device, where to tap and how hard."

I hope I don't need to explain how that applies on your above statement.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Hank,

He sure hates apples.

And Android, and people who do not agree with him and ... well, pretty-much everything else.

Except for Windows ofcourse. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Your Name,

You must have a rather sore thumb with always sucking "facts" like that
outof it.

"thumb"?!?
He gets all his "facts" out of his backside / bumhole,

No, no, no. A butthole is to stick ones head in (which he's also doing),
not to suck on. Blerg ! :-)

just like Trump the Chump, who is probably the village idiot Arlen's idol.

Yeah, I also noticed the similarities, but didn't want to pull politics into this newsgroup as there might be a number of MAGA people here too. Just imagine the flame-war that could/would ensue. :-|

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

On Thu, 9/25/2025 2:27 AM, sms wrote:

On 9/24/2025 8:45 AM, R.Wieser wrote:

sms,

LOL, you stated " Win 11 *refuses* to be installed on Win 10
hardware."

That is untrue. What is true is that it requires a workaround.

Noipe, that statement is quite true.

That you refuse Win 11's refusal (and force it) doesn't mean that it isn't a >> refusal I'm afraid.

And that refusal is what most users* will ever see when they press the
"upgrade to win 11" button.

* the few technically inclined users like you excepted.

Not sure what upside you see in lying, but whatever lights your board.

I ran into this whole thing two weeks ago when my wife asked me to upgrade her HP laptop to Windows 11 from Windows 10 because she was having an issue running an application in Windows 10. TPM was not built into her laptop which is about four years old.

Took me all of five minutes to a) Google the workaround, and b) perform it.

Had I upgraded to Window 11 as soon as it was available, no workaround would have been required since Microsoft didn't even require TPM for Windows 11 until December 3, 2024, more than three years after it was launched, I just never bothered to do the upgrade sooner.

Actually, it's the Mac that requires a much more complicated workaround to install the latest version of OS-X, using the OpenCore Legacy Patcher. I've done this too! See <https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/1ilxd9o/how_to_install_macos_ventura_or_newer_on_an_older/>.

Certainly I wish that Microsoft and Apple didn't make these upgrades require a workaround, but it's understandable that the hardware requirements change.

In Windows 11, use the Settings wheel from the Start Menu,
type "TPM" in the search box there. Win10 provides this information
as well, so either OS has a check for TPM type (if enabled in BIOS!) .

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/vmB9rsXy/TPM-BIOS-level-options.gif

The reason the BIOS (firmware) TPM emulation was created, is it
"costs zero dollars" to do it. At the time, the TPM on the left
costs $25 to add to the computer, and the price has shot through
the ceiling for the plugin one. The local computer store, no
longer stocks any plugin ones, as they know how a TPM that costs
half as much as a motherboard, would sell.

The machine on the right in that photo, has this in the BIOS menu,
in some security section. The BIOS (UEFI) firmware file, works with multiple motherboards of the same family, and that is how the Plugin option
was offered, even though there is no place to plug in a TPM.

TPM (plugin) <=== It doesn't even have the PINS to plug this in!!!
TPM (firmware) <=== Using this currently for Secure Boot experiments
None <=== Your wifes laptop could be using this setting.
This may even have been the default on my machine.

If a machine is four years old, that's enough time for an fTPM to be present. It doesn't cost anything, and it can use whatever Secure Enclave isn't pinned off on your CPU. The AMD x86 processor, has an ARM single core enclave,
as an example of some baggage it has on board :-) I don't really have a good history of Intel enclaves to offer -- the one that enabled playback of
BluRay 4K video discs, is pinned off on a number of 11th to 14th generation processors, leaving fewer options as potential TPM surrogates there. But
Intel normally always has something up its sleeve, which is why I can't be
sure there isn't something added in there.

In one AMD laptop, AMD has placed a Pluton, but we have zero information
out here in the wild, concerning whether the Pluton appears in a picture similar to the one I provided at the top. The Pluton AMD placed in the
laptop, is a Microsoft creation. And Microsoft has used Pluton in some marketing materials, implying it isn't dead. (Even though it looks
pretty dead to me as a project.) That's the way it is with security
processors. Here today, gone tomorrow. The first gen TPM had some
bug/issue, requiring it to be flashed up, and maybe that's what you
find in a properly maintained TPM 1.4. The TPM 2.0 should be fine
out of the box, as far as issues of that sort go. When you buy a TPM
at the store for $25 to $75, that is already flashed to the current
interface level. You can flash a TPM 2.0 backwards to become a TPM 1.4,
but that's just an academic point showing how the internal (Infineon) firmware affects it. The TPM is a processor, which is why it has a ROM inside it
and supports flashing for repairs.

If you mention the model details of the laptop, I'll try to look it up
for you.

Paul
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

On 24/09/2025 6:28 pm, R.Wieser wrote:

Arlen,

Chris wrote:

Name a single fact I stated in the post to Chris you feel is wrong.

What is even the point? You never, ever accept anything. It's always
deny,
deflect, ignore. Always.

Heh heh heh...
Apple trolls claim everything they simply can't understand, must be wrong.

Heh heh heh...

Arlen is the troll who refuses to even respond to anything he simply can't understand - and therefore it - must be wrong.

Funny how such accusations work two ways, isn't it ? :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Rudy, if you don't mind .... who is this 'Chris' that 'Arlen'/'Marion'
is replying to??

Is 'Chris' posting to one of the phone groups (iphone/andriod) but I'm
not seeing that actual post in the Win-10 group, just 'Arlen'/'Marion'
quoting of them??
--
Daniel70
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

On 09/25/2025 07:29, Daniel70 wrote:

Rudy, if you don't mind .... who is this 'Chris' that 'Arlen'/'Marion'
is replying to??

Is 'Chris' posting to one of the phone groups (iphone/andriod) but I'm
not seeing that actual post in the Win-10 group, just 'Arlen'/'Marion' quoting of them??

Chris is one of Arlen's antagonists on the iPhone group.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Daniel70,

Rudy, if you don't mind .... who is this 'Chris' that 'Arlen'/'Marion' is replying to??

I /assume/ its a real person ... :-)

The last post of his in this, the alt.comp.os.windows-10 newsgroup seems to
be at Sunday, September 21, 2025 00:36 .

Is 'Chris' posting to one of the phone groups (iphone/andriod) but I'm not seeing that actual post in the Win-10 group, just 'Arlen'/'Marion' quoting of them??

I just took a peek at both newsgroups, but there is something funny going
on. I can see a whole subtree of posts between the two starting at Fri, 19 Sep 2025 22:08:42 UTC in comp.mobile.android, but can't find the same back
in alt.comp.os.windows-10.

Than again, Chris has made several attempts to remove the alt.comp.os.windows-10 newsgroup, only to have arlen re-add it. That might something to do with it I guess.

Strange though that in this, the alt.comp.os.windows-10 newsgroup, several posts of arlen aimed at Chris seem to have a post of mine as its parent ...

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Strange though that in this, the alt.comp.os.windows-10 newsgroup,
several posts of arlen aimed at Chris seem to have a post of mine as its parent ...

Ah, ofcourse: as the parent (Chris'es) post does not exist in the alt.comp.os.windows-10 newsgroup no message-ID is added to the 'Reference:' line there, causing it to make it look as if the grandparent is the parent.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

badgolferman wrote:

Is 'Chris' posting to one of the phone groups (iphone/andriod) but I'm
not seeing that actual post in the Win-10 group, just 'Arlen'/'Marion'
quoting of them??

Chris is

Chris usually posts to the Apple newsgroup defending Apple to the death.

You can quote the facts inside the links a thousand times, and they will
ask you in the next post for the same cite you gave them a thousand times.

You can provide the link and the data in the link a thousand times even.

The Apple trolls *never* even click on the links before claiming that all
links that say anything bad about Apple products cannot possibly be true.

It's what Apple trolls have done for decades on the OS Usenet newsgroups.
*If it didn't come from Apple marketing - then - to them - it's a lie.*

Apple trolls naturally do not like that iOS' written full support pledge is
the shortest of the leading flagships at 2 years less than Google/Samsung.
*Apple finally confirms in writing how long it will fully support iPhones*
*and it's 2 years less than Samsung Galaxy S and Google flagship support*
<https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>

You can provide that cite a thousand times to the Apple trolls, and a
thousand times they will claim it's "just a URL" since they don't read it.

Why?
I think it may be as simple as Apple trolls *hate* anything bad ever being
said about their beloved product line so they defend Apple to the death by doing the first thing that comes to their mind - which is deny all facts.

Note: Android owners don't complain Microsoft support for Windows is far
longer than Android support - by way of contrast how normal people act.
Microsoft: About 10 years of full support, multiple versions
Samsung/Google: 7 years promised written full support, multiple versions
iOS: 5 years promised written full support, only a single OS version ever!
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

The Known Exploited Vulnerabilities (KEV) Catalog is the authoritative list
of CVEs that are confirmed to be exploited in the wild.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

CISA publishes the catalog in CSV and JSON formats, which include
searchable fields like vendor/project, product, CVE ID, and description.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

You can quote the facts inside the links a thousand times, and they will
ask you in the next post for the same cite you gave them a thousand times.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

You can provide the link and the data in the link a thousand times even.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

The Apple trolls *never* even click on the links before claiming that all
links that say anything bad about Apple products cannot possibly be true.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

It's what Apple trolls have done for decades on the OS Usenet newsgroups.
*If it didn't come from Apple marketing - then - to them - it's a lie.*
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

Apple trolls naturally do not like that iOS' written full support pledge is
the shortest of the leading flagships at 2 years less than Google/Samsung.
The government report on the known iOS' exploits found in the wild are
just under 1-1/2 times that of the known exploits of all Android devices.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

You can provide that cite a thousand times to the Apple trolls, and a
thousand times they will claim it's "just a URL" since they don't click it.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

Why?
I think it may be as simple as Apple trolls *hate* anything bad ever being
said about their beloved product line so they defend Apple to the death by doing the first thing that comes to their mind - which is deny all facts.

Note: Windows owners don't complain they have far more active exploits - by
way of contrast how normal people act when confronted with factual data.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Facts.

Microsoft clearly has fully supported more than one release at a time as
had Google/Samsung for flagship phones but Apple has never ever done that.

Apple won't market that Apple has never fully supported more than one
release at a time, but security researchers forced Apple to come clean! <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>

Since the Apple trolls brazenly deny that those facts are true, without
even clicking on the links, which we've had full threads discussing, so
they simply say the links don't exist because they *hate* that they do.

The first defense of Apple trolls is to claim everything bad about Apple
must be a lie, so, Apple trolls never click on the links which have been supplied to them a thousand times for years & they don't click them.

Apple trolls simply say anything bad about Apple must be a lie.

Even when those links above cite Apple's own links for their facts!
*About software updates for Apple devices*
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/web>

There is no Apple troll with the intellect to parse that clever Apple speak
but even Apple must write the truth in such public documents which is...

For bugfix releases:
"Not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions"
For release patches:
"Rapid Security Responses are delivered only for the latest versions
of iOS, iPadOS, and macOS. Because of this, the operating systems
need to be using the latest version."

The Apple trolls have been given all these links for years, and for years, Apple trolls have denied these links even exist as they have never clicked
on the links and yet the Apple trolls are *desperate* to find any loophole, they can imagine to deny the simple basic fact that Apple has never in its entire history ever fully supported more than a one release at a time.

No other major operating system vendor has support that bad.
Only Apple.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

On 9/24/2025 11:57 PM, R.Wieser wrote:

So, whats the lie again ?

No change.

"Win 11 *refuses* to be installed on Win 10 hardware. You're stuck with
it until you buy new hardware."

It's not true. You're not "stuck" with Windows 10. There's a simple
solution.

And of course installing a newer version of OS-X requires a much more complicated workaround to be installed on older Mac hardware.

Here's the difference roC Microsoft did allow, with no workaround
required, Windows 11 to be installed on non-TPM systems shipped with
Windows 10, for more than three years after Windows 11 was released roC
there was no refusal at all and no workaround required!

Conversely, Apple never allowed OS-X to be installed on older Mac
systems without a workaround, there was no "grace period." You can't
blame Apple for the lack of support because the switch from x86 to their
own silicon made it impractical to continue to support old hardware with
newer versions of OS-X.

With Microsoft, I think that they should have continued with an option
to ignore TPM, with the user accepting any risk, instead of requiring a workaround.

No doubt that Microsoft, like Apple, wants people to buy new hardware
since that generates more revenue for them. Microsoft is not only
getting the revenue from each copy of the operating system, they're also selling more copies of Microsoft Office and other applications.

----

rCLIf you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.rCYrCoTin Foil Awards
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

FACTS.

You can cite a fact to Apple trolls a thousand times & they deny it exists. They even claim you never gave them that cite before denying it exists.

And yet, they've been taught that fact a thousand times already on this ng. Apple trolls deny that any fact can exist if it explains what Apple does.

For many years the Apple trolls have claimed Apple fixes all known bugs in older releases even as they've been supplied a thousand times these facts showing Apple has never fully supported more than just the one latest
release (which, let's be clear, is the worst OS support in the industry!).

FACT: Apple has never fully supported more than a single release at a time.

Apple Support - About software updates for Apple devices
<https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/deployment/depc4c80847a/web>

Which says, for bugfix releases:
"Not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions"

And which says, for release patches:
"Rapid Security Responses are delivered only for the latest versions
of iOS, iPadOS, and macOS. Because of this, the operating systems
need to be using the latest version."

Bear in mind the specific terminology used by Apple which the Apple trolls clearly don't own the intellect to decipher, but which is explained below.

In Apple's support documents above, "bugfix releases" are called "software updates (or minor software updates)" by Apple when they say "Software
updates "consist of frequently released patches that help secure or enhance
the current operating system and that are designed to keep devices
protected." Rapid Security Responses are described by Apple as "a different type of software release for applying security fixes to devices more
frequently by not requiring a full software update" and also "are delivered only for the latest versions of iOS, iPadOS, and macOS."

Apple Support - About Rapid Security Responses for iOS, iPadOS & macOS
<https://support.apple.com/en-ph/guide/security/sec87fc038c2/web>

Apple Security Guide - Rapid Security Responses in Apple operating systems
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224>

FACT: Apple has never fully supported more than a single release at a time. NOTE: Every other major OS vendor has fully supported more than 1 release.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:

Daniel70,

Rudy, if you don't mind .... who is this 'Chris' that 'Arlen'/'Marion' is >> replying to??

I /assume/ its a real person ... :-)

The last post of his in this, the alt.comp.os.windows-10 newsgroup seems to be at Sunday, September 21, 2025 00:36 .

Is 'Chris' posting to one of the phone groups (iphone/andriod) but I'm not >> seeing that actual post in the Win-10 group, just 'Arlen'/'Marion' quoting >> of them??

I just took a peek at both newsgroups, but there is something funny going on. I can see a whole subtree of posts between the two starting at Fri, 19 Sep 2025 22:08:42 UTC in comp.mobile.android, but can't find the same back in alt.comp.os.windows-10.

Than again, Chris has made several attempts to remove the alt.comp.os.windows-10 newsgroup, only to have arlen re-add it. That might something to do with it I guess.

Absolutely. I removed win10 because the discussion - I use that term
loosely - was irrelevant to that ng. Marion just likes to share his idiocy
far and wide...


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

sms,

So, whats the lie again ?

No change.

Kiddo, I called you a liar, and all you can say "no change" ? Right.

"Win 11 *refuses* to be installed on Win 10 hardware. You're stuck
with it until you buy new hardware."

It's not true. You're not "stuck" with Windows 10. There's a simple solution.

A craftsman was asked why he billed so much while all he did was taking his hammer and hitting the device. "Well," he said ,"you're paying for me
knowing that I can solve the problem by tapping the device, where to tap and how hard."

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Arlen,

You can cite a fact to Apple trolls a thousand times & they deny it
exists.

That sounds like someone else I know ...

They even claim you never gave them that cite before denying it exists.

And you ofcourse prove them wrong by telling in which post you did it and quote the text you used ?

Thought not.

Kiddo, get your face away from that mirror.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Chris,

Than again, Chris has made several attempts to remove the
alt.comp.os.windows-10 newsgroup, only to have arlen re-add it.
That might something to do with it I guess.

Absolutely. I removed win10 because the discussion - I use that term
loosely - was irrelevant to that ng.

That's what I assumed.

Marion just likes to share his idiocy far and wide...

Yep.

Did you know he actually calmed down in that regard ? I've seen him include more than three newsgroups (can't do more using ES), and rather often ones that had absolutily zero to do with his subject. Maybe he got told off ?

Hey, maybe he's growing outof this "I'm the best, and nobody can tell me otherwise" chest-thumping of his.

... I'm allowed to dream, am I ?. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

My argument is that Apple support is the *worst* in the industry.

While the trolls (who know nothing about the topic at hand) troll,
these are on-topic facts about the TRUTH of operating system support.

These are proven cited facts we covered in depth already on this thread.

1. *iOS written legally-obligated promised full support is far shorter*
than that of Google/Samsung flagships (i.e., about 1/3rd shorter).
Windows takes the cake though, in terms of years of full support.
<https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>

2. *iOS has had 1-1/2 times the known exploits as Android has had.*
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>
(But Windows takes the cake many times over in terms of exploits).
<https://blog.ostorlab.co/known_exploitable_vulnerabilities_catching_them_all.html>

3. *Apple has never fully supported more than a single release* while
every other major OS OEM has fully supported multiple releases.
<https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/deployment/depc4c80847a/web>
Android takes the cake here but Windows isn't too shoddy either.

Keeping on topic and not responding to the trolls who can only subtract
value since they know nothing about the topic, here is yet another
well-cited fact about Apple's astoundingly atrocious QA process.

4. *Large portions of the iOS code have never once been through testing!*

Google Project Zero - A very deep dive into iOS Exploit chains found in the wild <https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2019/08/a-very-deep-dive-into-ios-exploit.html>
"We'll see cases of code which seems to have never worked, code that
likely skipped QA or likely had little testing or review before being
shipped to users."
This is explicit acknowledgement that significant portions of iOS shipped
with untested or nonfunctional code.

Google Threat Analysis Group - State-backed attackers and commercial surveillance vendors repeatedly use the same exploits <https://blog.google/threat-analysis-group/state-backed-attackers-and-commercial-surveillance-vendors-repeatedly-use-the-same-exploits/>
"In each iteration of the watering hole campaigns, the attackers used
exploits that were identical or strikingly similar to exploits previously
used by commercial surveillance vendors."

Project Zero - JITSploitation: Three zero-days and one cached JIT spray
<https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2020/09/jitsploitation-three.html> "This three-part series highlights the technical challenges involved in
finding and exploiting JavaScript engine vulnerabilities in modern web
browsers and evaluates current exploit mitigation technologies."
This shows Apple's mitigations werenot catching known exploit patterns.

Vice - Google Project Zero bugs used to hack iPhones and Android phones <https://www.vice.com/en/article/google-project-zero-bugs-used-to-hack-iphones-and-android-phones>
"Researchers at Google's Project Zero uncovered vulnerabilities in WebKit
and JIT engines that were quietly patched by Apple and Google after being exploited in the wild."
The need for third-party researchers to find and exploit these flaws
indicates they were not caught by Apple's in-house testing.

In summary, above are FACTS which the trolls can't understand nor dispute.
But those facts play into my assessment *iOS is the worst supported OS*.

Is there even *one* way that iOS is better supported than the others?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

My argument is that Apple support is the *worst* in the industry.

(Although when it comes to exploits, even Apple is surpassed by one OS!) <https://blog.ostorlab.co/static/img/2024_01_10_Known_exploitable_vulnerabilities/distribution_of_RE_NRE_CVES.png>

Given the trolls (who know nothing about the topic at hand) only spend
seconds to respond (because the trolls can't add any on-topic value)
these are on-topic facts about the TRUTH of operating system support.

4. *Large portions of the iOS code have never once been through testing!*

Google Project Zero - A very deep dive into iOS Exploit chains found in the wild <https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2019/08/a-very-deep-dive-into-ios-exploit.html>
"We'll see cases of code which seems to have never worked, code that
likely skipped QA or likely had little testing or review before being
shipped to users."
This is explicit acknowledgement that significant portions of iOS shipped
with untested or nonfunctional code.

Google Threat Analysis Group - State-backed attackers and commercial surveillance vendors repeatedly use the same exploits <https://blog.google/threat-analysis-group/state-backed-attackers-and-commercial-surveillance-vendors-repeatedly-use-the-same-exploits/>
"In each iteration of the watering hole campaigns, the attackers used
exploits that were identical or strikingly similar to exploits previously
used by commercial surveillance vendors."

Project Zero - JITSploitation: Three zero-days and one cached JIT spray
<https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2020/09/jitsploitation-three.html> "This three-part series highlights the technical challenges involved in
finding and exploiting JavaScript engine vulnerabilities in modern web
browsers and evaluates current exploit mitigation technologies."
This shows Apple's mitigations werenot catching known exploit patterns.

Vice - Google Project Zero bugs used to hack iPhones and Android phones <https://www.vice.com/en/article/google-project-zero-bugs-used-to-hack-iphones-and-android-phones>
"Researchers at Google's Project Zero uncovered vulnerabilities in WebKit
and JIT engines that were quietly patched by Apple and Google after being exploited in the wild."
The need for third-party researchers to find and exploit these flaws
indicates they were not caught by Apple's in-house testing.

In summary, above are FACTS which the trolls can't understand nor dispute.
But those facts play into my assessment *iOS is the worst supported OS*.

Keeping on topic and not responding to the trolls who can only subtract
value since they know nothing about the topic, here are more reliable well-cited fact about Apple's astoundingly atrocious QA process.
<https://blog.ostorlab.co/known_exploitable_vulnerabilities_catching_them_all.html>
<https://www.cybersecurity-insiders.com/vulnerability-comparison-android-vs-ios-in-the-face-of-cyber-attacks/>

While Windows and iOS take the cake for having far too many bugs,
is there even *one* way that iOS is better supported than the others?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Unfortunately, Windows takes the cake (by far) by being even worse than
Apple when it comes to the one metric of the most zero-day exploits. :(
<https://blog.ostorlab.co/static/img/2024_01_10_Known_exploitable_vulnerabilities/distribution_of_RE_NRE_CVES.png>

REFERENCE:
*Ostorlab Known Exploitable Vulnerabilities: Catching them all*
<https://blog.ostorlab.co/known_exploitable_vulnerabilities_catching_them_all.html>

See also:
*Cybersecurity Insiders Vulnerability Comparison: Android vs iOS*
<https://www.cybersecurity-insiders.com/vulnerability-comparison-android-vs-ios-in-the-face-of-cyber-attacks/>
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Marion <marionf@fact.com> wrote:

My argument is that Apple support is the *worst* in the industry.

While the trolls (who know nothing about the topic at hand) troll,
these are on-topic facts about the TRUTH of operating system support.

Shouting doesn't make your errors or lies any more true.

These are proven cited facts we covered in depth already on this thread.

1. *iOS written legally-obligated promised full support is far shorter*
than that of Google/Samsung flagships (i.e., about 1/3rd shorter).
Windows takes the cake though, in terms of years of full support.
<https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>

Factcheck: ambiguous. There's no "legal obligation" required here and the quoted support timelines are minimums.

2. *iOS has had 1-1/2 times the known exploits as Android has had.*
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

You have been told and corrected many times that that claim is not
supported by the URL and you *never* show your workings.

Factcheck: does not support claim.

(But Windows takes the cake many times over in terms of exploits).
<https://blog.ostorlab.co/known_exploitable_vulnerabilities_catching_them_all.html>

You're conflating Microsoft/Apple with Windows/iOS. If you actually looking
at the CISA link you boringly post all the time you'd see the difference.
NB: remember that searching for "iOS" also finds cisco's IOS and FortiOS.

Factcheck: does not support the claim.

3. *Apple has never fully supported more than a single release* while
every other major OS OEM has fully supported multiple releases.
<https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/deployment/depc4c80847a/web>
Android takes the cake here but Windows isn't too shoddy either.

Your link contradicts you. The very bottom table shows that iOS 18.7 and
iOS 26 are both fully supported until 15th December.

Factcheck: does not support the claim.

Keeping on topic and not responding to the trolls who can only subtract
value since they know nothing about the topic, here is yet another
well-cited fact about Apple's astoundingly atrocious QA process.

4. *Large portions of the iOS code have never once been through testing!*

Google Project Zero - A very deep dive into iOS Exploit chains found in the wild <https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2019/08/a-very-deep-dive-into-ios-exploit.html>
"We'll see cases of code which seems to have never worked, code that
likely skipped QA or likely had little testing or review before being
shipped to users."
This is explicit acknowledgement that significant portions of iOS shipped with untested or nonfunctional code.

Google Threat Analysis Group - State-backed attackers and commercial surveillance vendors repeatedly use the same exploits <https://blog.google/threat-analysis-group/state-backed-attackers-and-commercial-surveillance-vendors-repeatedly-use-the-same-exploits/>
"In each iteration of the watering hole campaigns, the attackers used exploits that were identical or strikingly similar to exploits previously used by commercial surveillance vendors."

Project Zero - JITSploitation: Three zero-days and one cached JIT spray
<https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2020/09/jitsploitation-three.html> "This three-part series highlights the technical challenges involved in finding and exploiting JavaScript engine vulnerabilities in modern web browsers and evaluates current exploit mitigation technologies."
This shows Apple's mitigations weren-at catching known exploit patterns.

Vice - Google Project Zero bugs used to hack iPhones and Android phones <https://www.vice.com/en/article/google-project-zero-bugs-used-to-hack-iphones-and-android-phones>
"Researchers at Google's Project Zero uncovered vulnerabilities in WebKit
and JIT engines that were quietly patched by Apple and Google after being exploited in the wild."
The need for third-party researchers to find and exploit these flaws indicates they were not caught by Apple's in-house testing.

factcheck: claim it's overblown with respect to very detailed and narrow analyses.

In summary, above are FACTS which the trolls can't understand nor dispute. But those facts play into my assessment *iOS is the worst supported OS*.

None of your above claims are facts. Plus your global claim is a
comparative statement ("worst"). 3-4 of your claims only relate to iOS and
make no relative judgement compared to other OSes. Your sources cannot say whether iOS is better or worse than the others.

In summary, as per usual, you're talking out of your arse.




--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

Marion <marionf@fact.com> wrote:

My argument is that Apple support is the *worst* in the industry.

While the trolls (who know nothing about the topic at hand) troll,
these are on-topic facts about the TRUTH of operating system support.

Shouting doesn't make your errors or lies any more true.

These are proven cited facts we covered in depth already on this thread.

1. *iOS written legally-obligated promised full support is far shorter*
than that of Google/Samsung flagships (i.e., about 1/3rd shorter).
Windows takes the cake though, in terms of years of full support.
<https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>

Factcheck: ambiguous. There's no "legal obligation" required here and the quoted support timelines are minimums.

Correction there is a UK regulation, but it requires information on
"minimum security updates ", not full support as you claim. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-uk-product-security-and-telecommunications-infrastructure-product-security-regime

Also the Android authority states:

"Some iPhones have received security updates six or more years after the initial release, which is far more support than the vast majority of
Android devices receive."

Factcheck: stated claim is narrowly focused and doesn't acknowledge obvious strengths in Apple support and weaknesses in Android support.

2. *iOS has had 1-1/2 times the known exploits as Android has had.*
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

You have been told and corrected many times that that claim is not
supported by the URL and you *never* show your workings.

Factcheck: does not support claim.

(But Windows takes the cake many times over in terms of exploits).
<https://blog.ostorlab.co/known_exploitable_vulnerabilities_catching_them_all.html>

You're conflating Microsoft/Apple with Windows/iOS. If you actually looking at the CISA link you boringly post all the time you'd see the difference.
NB: remember that searching for "iOS" also finds cisco's IOS and FortiOS.

Factcheck: does not support the claim.

3. *Apple has never fully supported more than a single release* while
every other major OS OEM has fully supported multiple releases.
<https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/deployment/depc4c80847a/web>
Android takes the cake here but Windows isn't too shoddy either.

Your link contradicts you. The very bottom table shows that iOS 18.7 and
iOS 26 are both fully supported until 15th December.

Factcheck: does not support the claim.

Keeping on topic and not responding to the trolls who can only subtract
value since they know nothing about the topic, here is yet another
well-cited fact about Apple's astoundingly atrocious QA process.

4. *Large portions of the iOS code have never once been through testing!*

Google Project Zero - A very deep dive into iOS Exploit chains found in the >> wild
<https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2019/08/a-very-deep-dive-into-ios-exploit.html>
"We'll see cases of code which seems to have never worked, code that
likely skipped QA or likely had little testing or review before being
shipped to users."
This is explicit acknowledgement that significant portions of iOS shipped
with untested or nonfunctional code.

Google Threat Analysis Group - State-backed attackers and commercial
surveillance vendors repeatedly use the same exploits
<https://blog.google/threat-analysis-group/state-backed-attackers-and-commercial-surveillance-vendors-repeatedly-use-the-same-exploits/>
"In each iteration of the watering hole campaigns, the attackers used
exploits that were identical or strikingly similar to exploits previously
used by commercial surveillance vendors."

Project Zero - JITSploitation: Three zero-days and one cached JIT spray
<https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2020/09/jitsploitation-three.html> >> "This three-part series highlights the technical challenges involved in
finding and exploiting JavaScript engine vulnerabilities in modern web
browsers and evaluates current exploit mitigation technologies."
This shows Apple's mitigations weren-at catching known exploit patterns.

Vice - Google Project Zero bugs used to hack iPhones and Android phones
<https://www.vice.com/en/article/google-project-zero-bugs-used-to-hack-iphones-and-android-phones>
"Researchers at Google's Project Zero uncovered vulnerabilities in WebKit
and JIT engines that were quietly patched by Apple and Google after being
exploited in the wild."
The need for third-party researchers to find and exploit these flaws
indicates they were not caught by Apple's in-house testing.

factcheck: claim it's overblown with respect to very detailed and narrow analyses.

In summary, above are FACTS which the trolls can't understand nor dispute. >> But those facts play into my assessment *iOS is the worst supported OS*.

None of your above claims are facts. Plus your global claim is a
comparative statement ("worst"). 3-4 of your claims only relate to iOS and make no relative judgement compared to other OSes. Your sources cannot say whether iOS is better or worse than the others.

In summary, as per usual, you're talking out of your arse.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Chris wrote:

Factcheck: stated claim is narrowly focused and doesn't acknowledge obvious strengths in Apple support and weaknesses in Android support.

The models to compare the $1000 iPhone to aren't the $35 Androids, Chris.

FACTS:

*Apple finally confirms how long it will support iPhones*
*(5 years) & it's less than Samsung & Google (7 years)
<https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/> --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Marion <marionf@fact.com> wrote:

Chris wrote:

Factcheck: stated claim is narrowly focused and doesn't acknowledge obvious >> strengths in Apple support and weaknesses in Android support.

The models to compare the $1000 iPhone to aren't the $35 Androids, Chris.

Oh, Arlen! You've been doing well lately, but now regressed to your old
ways.

We've been through this. You're comparing your "free" entry level android
with a very much non-free premium iphone. We all know you got an almost
free iphone at around the same time so you also know you should be
comparing your $35 galaxy A-32 to your $58 (iirc?) iphone 12 (mini?).

FACTS:

*Apple finally confirms how long it will support iPhones*
*(5 years) & it's less than Samsung & Google (7 years)
<https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>

Alslo FACTS:

Your galaxy is no longer supported by Samsung (since February) and that
iphone - if you still had it - is still fully supported by Apple. And
likely will be for another two years. Looks like if you wanted a phone with longterm support you returned the wrong one.

The link above puts it really well:
"Some iPhones have received security updates six or more years after the initial release, which is far more support than the vast majority of
Android devices receive."




--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Chris wrote:

Marion <marionf@fact.com> wrote:

Chris wrote:

Factcheck: stated claim is narrowly focused and doesn't acknowledge obvious >>> strengths in Apple support and weaknesses in Android support.

The models to compare the $1000 iPhone to aren't the $35 Androids, Chris.

Oh, Arlen! You've been doing well lately, but now regressed to your old
ways.

We've been through this. You're comparing your "free" entry level android with a very much non-free premium iphone. We all know you got an almost
free iphone at around the same time so you also know you should be
comparing your $35 galaxy A-32 to your $58 (iirc?) iphone 12 (mini?).

FACTS:

*Apple finally confirms how long it will support iPhones*
*(5 years) & it's less than Samsung & Google (7 years)
<https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>

Alslo FACTS:

Your galaxy is no longer supported by Samsung (since February) and that iphone - if you still had it - is still fully supported by Apple. And
likely will be for another two years. Looks like if you wanted a phone with longterm support you returned the wrong one.

The link above puts it really well:
"Some iPhones have received security updates six or more years after the initial release, which is far more support than the vast majority of
Android devices receive."

This is where I have to shake my head and wonder about your education.

1. When I'm explaining that a $35 Android has more functionality than
a $1000 iPhone, we're talking about inherent ability to run programs

Android wins.

2. Then you say that your $1000 phone is supported longer than a $35
phone and I would agree, where I would logically compare the flagship
promised written full support with the iPhone promised support.

iPhone loses.

3. The Apple trolls can't separate the two completely different concepts,
so they claim they found a flaw in the logic because they can't
understand that concept of promised support for $1000 Android flagships
being 40% longer than promised support for the $1000 iPhone.

WTF is wrong with you Apple trolls.
Seriously.

Have you no education at all?
No semblance of logic?

You are so desperate to counter the logic that every Android has more functionality than any iPhone and yet the full support being 40% longer is
only for Android flagships - that you conflate the two in your head????

Who is that stupid?
Nobody, right?

Your brain can't separate that it's two completely DIFFERENT arguments!
a. The $35 phone runs more software functionality than a $1000 iPhone.
b. The promised support for competing Android flagships is 40% longer.

This is (one reason) why I assess that Apple trolls lack formal education
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Marion, 2025-09-29 18:55:

[...]> a. The $35 phone runs more software functionality than a $1000
iPhone.

Depends on how you define "software functionality". iOS allows apps to
bind ports below 1024 without root access in contrast to Android. All
popular apps like messengers, banking, social media stuff, navigation,
media players, streaming, shopping etc. are usually available for iOS
and Android likewise since no big company can afford not to support both platforms. Recently Apple was also forced to allow third-party app
stores - it may not be as flexible as Android which allows even to
download malware from any website and install it, but it's a step to
more flexibility nevertheless.

Also a lot of software available for Android phones is just garbage.
Just counting the number of available apps in the respective app stores
makes little sense. Having millions of games or stupid apps which just
got created to make money with ads or "in-app purchases" is not an
advantage on it's own.

b. The promised support for competing Android flagships is 40% longer.

Is it? Google provides 7 years of updates for the Pixel 10 Pro. Apple
supports iPhones also around 7 years - that's why you can still get
updates for the iPhone 11 Pro which was released 6 years ago in 2019.

Also see:

<https://endoflife.date/pixel>
<https://endoflife.date/iphone>
--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

On 30/09/2025 2:55 am, Marion wrote:

<Snip>

Your brain can't separate that it's two completely DIFFERENT arguments!
a. The $35 phone runs more software functionality than a $1000 iPhone.
b. The promised support for competing Android flagships is 40% longer.

This is (one reason) why I assess that Apple trolls lack formal education

*IF* you are happy with the functionality of your $35 Android phone ....
GREAT ..... but why, oh, why do you have to go on and on and on about it??

If other people want to waste *THEIR* money, why worry about it??
--
Daniel70
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

In article <10bgcls$3kjar$1@dont-email.me>,
Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

On 30/09/2025 2:55 am, Marion wrote:

<Snip>

Your brain can't separate that it's two completely DIFFERENT arguments!
a. The $35 phone runs more software functionality than a $1000 iPhone.
b. The promised support for competing Android flagships is 40% longer.

This is (one reason) why I assess that Apple trolls lack formal education

*IF* you are happy with the functionality of your $35 Android phone .... GREAT ..... but why, oh, why do you have to go on and on and on about it??

If other people want to waste *THEIR* money, why worry about it??

Discussion for the sake of discussion is one thing but at a certain
point it feels like mindless trolling for the sake of getting a rise. I
worry that some people never progressed past the temptation to say "my
dad can beat up your dad!"
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Smithwicks wrote:

Your brain can't separate that it's two completely DIFFERENT arguments!
a. The $35 phone runs more software functionality than a $1000 iPhone.
b. The promised support for competing Android flagships is 40% longer.

This is (one reason) why I assess that Apple trolls lack formal education >>>

*IF* you are happy with the functionality of your $35 Android phone ....
GREAT ..... but why, oh, why do you have to go on and on and on about it?? >>
If other people want to waste *THEIR* money, why worry about it??

Discussion for the sake of discussion is one thing but at a certain
point it feels like mindless trolling for the sake of getting a rise. I worry that some people never progressed past the temptation to say "my
dad can beat up your dad!"

The lesson here is not so much that Apple also lied about locking people
into the barbed-wire prison garden for their safety, as everyone who is intelligent is well aware Apple's safety is the worst in the industry.

What even some intelligent people don't realize, is that they lost all that security by buying an iPhone and yet they didn't gain any functionality.

Other than the ability to use privileged ports, nobody on Usenet on the
Apple groups in the decade I've been asking the question, can find even a single app functionality on iOS that isn't already long ago on Android.

Which is the point of the $35 phone comment on functionality.
It's not the phone. It's that iOS lacks basic functionality.

Every Android phone ever made has more app functionality than any iPhone. People who focus on the price are stupid. They can't get a simple point.

Stupid people can't understand what all intelligent people already know.
The iPhone uses a toy operating system which drastically limits
functionality, which Apple says is "for your safety".

Heh heh heh... and yet, the iPhone is toxic with zero-day bugs.
Because iOS has the worst bugfix support in the computer industry.

Intelligent people are different than ignorant people.

Ignorant people believe every single thing fed to them.
Fed to them by (rather brilliant) Apple marketing.

We're not even talking that current iPhones lack the hardware that most
Android phones have (such as the portable memory and aux jack hardware).

We're talking basic app functionality.
See my comment to Arno for just a sample of that missing functionality.

Only iOS lacks such basic functionality which Apple "says" is removed "for
your safety" and yet, the iPhone is no more safe than any Android phone.

Fancy that.
Apple lied.

It used to be Apple only told the truth in court.
But recent events show that Apple lies even in court.

Anyone who doesn't know that Apple's support is the worst in the industry,
has never read the news. Anyone who thinks Apple devices are more secure,
has been hiding under the same rock that I accused Arno of hiding under.

These are IMPORTANT facts to be aware of.
Which is why I'm teaching them to you.

Your choice whether you want to move from ignorant to informed.
Totally up to you.

I await your educated response.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Arno Welzel wrote:

Depends on how you define "software functionality". iOS allows apps to
bind ports below 1024 without root access in contrast to Android.

Yup. The ability for apps to use privileged ports happens to be the only
app functionality anyone on the Apple newsgroups has *ever* been able to
find that isn't already on Android.

Meanwhile, Apple's iOS is the only consumer operating system that doesn't
have many things such as system-wide firewalls & graphical wi-fi debuggers.

popular apps like messengers, banking, social media stuff, navigation,
media players, streaming, shopping etc. are usually available for iOS
and Android likewise since no big company can afford not to support both platforms.

What's missing from iOS isn't the stuff that every person uses, Arno.
What's missing from iOS is the stuff that technical people use.

Such as torrenting apps, for one example.

More inexplicable is that iOS won't allow the Tor browser on its devices.
And spoofing your GPS location for another example of what's not allowed.

Which is kind of funny since of all Apple's lies about privacy, Apple won't let some of the most powerful methods of gaining privacy on iOS platforms.

Recently Apple was also forced to allow third-party app
stores - it may not be as flexible as Android which allows even to
download malware from any website and install it, but it's a step to
more flexibility nevertheless.

Apple fought that tooth and nail, which I'm sure you're aware of.

Apple is like Russian diplomats, whose real goal is obvious.
Apple's goal is simply to limit your options so that Apple makes money.

All the lies about privacy and security are nothing to Apple.
They're just ways to maintain their culpable deniability on the fact that everything they do to lock down the barbed-wire prison garden is for
profit.

Witness the fact that iOS is not safer than Android, for example.
The iOS users gave away everything for that - and yet it doesn't exist.

With all that in mind, the best insight I can offer the people on this newsgroup is the observation Apple "said" that they locked ppl into the barbed-wire prison garden for their safety. And yet, they gained no safety.

Why?
Apple lied.

They didn't lock ppl into the walled garden for their safety after all.
That is one of the insightful observations I can teach folks on this ng.

Also a lot of software available for Android phones is just garbage.
Just counting the number of available apps in the respective app stores
makes little sense.

Agree. But intelligent people have good aps, Arno.
I have great apps.

Skyica. Muntashirakon. NewPipe. Aurora. FairEmail. NetGuard. Nova.
Even intelligent people can't put any of that functionality on iOS.

I own iOS. I own Android. I use both every day.
There's no comparison.

At best, iOS is a toy OS.
It's fine for people who don't do anything.

Just like stock Android is fine for people who don't do anything.
If you don't do anything, both platforms do nothing just as well.

Having millions of games or stupid apps which just
got created to make money with ads or "in-app purchases" is not an
advantage on it's own.

Whom are you arguing with on that idiotic tack, Arno?
Nobody to my knowledge was claiming the straw horse you're beating.

Nobody claimed Android has more apps.

What I'm saying is iOS is brain dead compared on Android.
In many ways. Very many ways.

One of which is you can't install useful apps such as some I listed above,
and plenty more which are for people who "do something" with their devices.

If you do nothing with the device but play games, both do nothing the same.

b. The promised support for competing Android flagships is 40% longer.

Is it? Google provides 7 years of updates for the Pixel 10 Pro. Apple supports iPhones also around 7 years - that's why you can still get
updates for the iPhone 11 Pro which was released 6 years ago in 2019.

Huh? Where have you been, Arno? Hiding under a rock?
Haven't you ever read the news?

*Apple finally confirms in writing how long it will fully support iPhones*
*(it's 2 years less than Samsung Galaxy S & Google flagship support!)*
<https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>

<https://endoflife.date/pixel>
<https://endoflife.date/iphone>

You're joking right? Tell me you're joking when you posted the iPhone link. Apple has the *worst* hotfix support in the entire computer industry, Arno.

HINT: Apple has never in its entire history ever fully supported more than
a single release at a time. If your device isn't on the latest release, you may as well throw it over the next bridge, its' that toxic, Arno.

Nobody else has full hotfix support that crappy in the computer industry.
Just Apple.

Don't you ever wonder why iOS has so many zero-day holes, Arno?
Their full hotfix support is, by far, the worst in the computer industry.

Ars Technica - Apple clarifies security update policy: Only the latest OSes are fully patched

<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
"Only the latest OSes are fully patched."

HotHardware - Apple admits it only fully patches security flaws in its
latest OS releases
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
"Old versions of operating systems of Apple devices do not get complete security patches."

Screen Rant - Apple product security update lifespan explained
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
"Only the latest releases provide full protection from security vulnerabilities."
"Because of dependency on architecture and system changes to any current version, not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions"

Hell, Apple didn't even know how to build a hotfix until 2023 for God's
sake. No wonder the iPhone is rife with zero-day holes everywhere.

Apple Security Guide - Rapid Security Responses in Apple operating systems
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224>
"New Rapid Security Responses are delivered only for the latest versions
of iOS, iPadOS, and macOS, starting with iOS 16.4.1, iPadOS 16.4.1, and
macOS 13.3.1."
"By default, your device automatically applies Rapid Security Responses;
if you turn them off, those fixes are included in the next full software update instead."

Apple Support - About Rapid Security Responses for iOS, iPadOS, and macOS
<https://support.apple.com/en-ph/guide/security/sec87fc038c2/web>
"RSRs enable rapid delivery of ongoing and regular security improvements
and can be removed or reapplied without reinstalling the entire OS."
"Rapid Security Responses deliver important security improvements between software updates"

Arno,
My advice is for you to get out from under that rock and read the news.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

On 2025-09-30 16:02:55 +0000, Smithwicks said:

In article <10bgcls$3kjar$1@dont-email.me>,
Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

On 30/09/2025 2:55 am, Marion wrote:

<Snip>

Your brain can't separate that it's two completely DIFFERENT arguments!
a. The $35 phone runs more software functionality than a $1000 iPhone.
b. The promised support for competing Android flagships is 40% longer.

This is (one reason) why I assess that Apple trolls lack formal education >>>

*IF* you are happy with the functionality of your $35 Android phone ....
GREAT ..... but why, oh, why do you have to go on and on and on about it?? >>
If other people want to waste *THEIR* money, why worry about it??

Discussion for the sake of discussion is one thing but at a certain
point it feels like mindless trolling for the sake of getting a rise. I
worry that some people never progressed past the temptation to say "my
dad can beat up your dad!"

Arlen's "dad" is apparently a slow piece of el cheapo Android crap with
five year old tech inside it and he's never even seen Apple's "dad".

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Your Name wrote on 9/30/2025 2:36 PM:

On 2025-09-30 16:02:55 +0000, Smithwicks said:

In article <10bgcls$3kjar$1@dont-email.me>,
aDaniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

On 30/09/2025 2:55 am, Marion wrote:

<Snip>

Your brain can't separate that it's two completely DIFFERENT arguments! >>>> a. The $35 phone runs more software functionality than a $1000 iPhone. >>>> b. The promised support for competing Android flagships is 40% longer. >>>>
This is (one reason) why I assess that Apple trolls lack formal
education

*IF* you are happy with the functionality of your $35 Android phone .... >>> GREAT ..... but why, oh, why do you have to go on and on and on about
it??

If other people want to waste *THEIR* money, why worry about it??

Discussion for the sake of discussion is one thing but at a certain
point it feels like mindless trolling for the sake of getting a rise. I
worry that some people never progressed past the temptation to say "my
dad can beat up your dad!"

Arlen's "dad" is apparently a slow piece of el cheapo Android crap with
five year old tech inside it and he's never even seen Apple's "dad".

That's why I'm waiting for Jolly Roger to weigh in on this.

He knows all kind of apple stuff. Real smart.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2