• =?UTF-8?Q?We=E2=80=99re_all_doomed_if_English_literature_students_c?= =?UTF-8?Q?an=E2=80=99t_read_books?=

    From Julian@julianlzb87@gmail.com to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Mon Oct 6 14:57:53 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy


    The question has changed, as one Oxford don noted wanly on social media,
    from rCyWhat are you reading at university?rCO to rCyAre you reading at university?rCO Such is the state of undergraduates entering English
    literature courses these days, brains addled by scrolling on their
    mobile phones, that universities are now offering rCyreading resiliencerCO courses to help them tackle the unfamiliar task of reading long, old, sometimes difficult books.

    ItrCOs a whole new cause of gloom to discover that even students who have actively signed up to study English literature at university are
    struggling to read books

    WerCOre accustomed, some of us, to feeling gloomy about the sinking
    popularity of Eng lit rCo once comfortably among the most popular choices
    at A-Level and most applied-for at university, now very much not. WerCOre accustomed, too, to regretting the gobbetisation of how itrCOs now taught
    at GCSE and A-Level, and the drive to teach ever shorter texts in the
    face of dwindling teenage concentration spans. But itrCOs a whole new
    cause of gloom to discover that even those students who have actively
    signed up to study English literature at university are struggling to
    read books.

    There are arguments to be had, heaven knows, about the value and purpose
    of English literature as an academic discipline. They have been being
    had since it first came into being. Did acquaintance with the great
    works, as F R Leavis (and before him George Eliot and many others)
    thought, improve you morally? Or, when that line started to seem a bit airy-fairy, was formal analysis rCo structural morphology, and all that
    jazz rCo the respectable way to go?

    When literary theory swept through the academy in the 1980s and 90s, you
    could see dons latching on to it with a yelp of relief, as if to say:
    werCOre doing something intellectually rigorous now, not just reading
    stories and poems and responding to them. Marxist and feminist critics corralled the literary canon into a branch of the social sciences; the deconstructionist mob tried to yank it into philosophy.

    And the economic utility of it rCo as if thatrCOs the point rCo has always been questioned. When I was an Eng lit undergraduate, the standard joke
    was: rCyWhat do you say when you meet someone with a PhD in English? Big
    Mac and large fries please.rCO That joke, alas, has now become the
    organising principle for successive metrics-minded governments to
    sideline the arts in favour of STEM.

    But, wherever the world may stand on the value of an English Literature degree, if yourCOre signed up to one as an undergraduate, yourCOre
    presumably on board with thinking thererCOs a point to it. And that means reading books. Often very long books. Sometimes difficult books. It is
    the entire point of reading English literature. You donrCOt join a
    parachute regiment and then decide that, on subsequent consideration,
    yourCOre not wild about the idea of jumping out of planes.

    Eng lit, in this respect, is something of a bellwether. If we lose our
    ability to read books rCo properly read them, all the way through rCo we are cooked as a civilisation. Books are what made that civilisation in the
    first place. They are the best means yet devised of transmitting deep
    thinking and rich bodies of knowledge across generations. The internet
    is not a substitute. Memes are not a substitute. TikTok videos are not a substitute. Tweets, fun though they may be to send, are not a
    substitute. And generative AI rCo that Dunning-Kruger regurgitation
    machine entirely built on the theft of those texts whose readerships it
    is destroying rCo is certainly no substitute.

    It seems to me that most of the ills that plague our public discourse rCo
    the polarisation, the binary thinking, the historical illiteracy, the narcissism, the privileging of emotion over reason where the only
    emotion to be considered is your own, the astounding impunity towards
    outright lies rCo are ills to which the main corrective is reading books.
    Only in reading books do you discover that this issue or that is more complicated than you thought, that propositions of the both-and type
    rather than the either-or exist, and that there are truths that it is
    not possible to express in a spicy tweet. Books, because (with a few
    admitted exceptions, such as On The Road) they are the considered and painstaking work of many solitary hours and much revision, supply the
    antidote to the hot take, the angry riposte and the overconfident
    assertion. They are the slow-food movement of the intellectual world.

    IrCOd go further, too. To return to the original topic of English
    literature as a subject, I think that fiction and poetry have an
    incomparable value. Novels are empathy machines. They ask us (in an age
    when the dominant cultural impulse is to demand the admiration of
    others) to imagine what it might be like to be somebody else. Failure of
    the imagination is a species of moral failure; perhaps the worst. The
    first step on the road to atrocity is the inability to see your enemies
    as fully human. Cockroaches. Zionists. Orcs. Mussies.

    rCyReading resiliencerCO? Reading is what gives us resilience. Read some
    damn books, kids, or werCOre all doomed.


    Sam Leith
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noah Sombrero@fedora@fea.st to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Mon Oct 6 10:55:36 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On Mon, 6 Oct 2025 14:57:53 +0100, Julian <julianlzb87@gmail.com>
    wrote:


    The question has changed, as one Oxford don noted wanly on social media, >from aWhat are you reading at university?A to aAre you reading at >university?A Such is the state of undergraduates entering English
    literature courses these days, brains addled by scrolling on their
    mobile phones, that universities are now offering areading resilienceA >courses to help them tackle the unfamiliar task of reading long, old, >sometimes difficult books.

    ItAs a whole new cause of gloom to discover that even students who have >actively signed up to study English literature at university are
    struggling to read books

    WeAre accustomed, some of us, to feeling gloomy about the sinking
    popularity of Eng lit u once comfortably among the most popular choices
    at A-Level and most applied-for at university, now very much not. WeAre >accustomed, too, to regretting the gobbetisation of how itAs now taught
    at GCSE and A-Level, and the drive to teach ever shorter texts in the
    face of dwindling teenage concentration spans. But itAs a whole new
    cause of gloom to discover that even those students who have actively
    signed up to study English literature at university are struggling to
    read books.

    There are arguments to be had, heaven knows, about the value and purpose
    of English literature as an academic discipline. They have been being
    had since it first came into being. Did acquaintance with the great
    works, as F R Leavis (and before him George Eliot and many others)
    thought, improve you morally? Or, when that line started to seem a bit >airy-fairy, was formal analysis u structural morphology, and all that
    jazz u the respectable way to go?

    When literary theory swept through the academy in the 1980s and 90s, you >could see dons latching on to it with a yelp of relief, as if to say:
    weAre doing something intellectually rigorous now, not just reading
    stories and poems and responding to them. Marxist and feminist critics >corralled the literary canon into a branch of the social sciences; the >deconstructionist mob tried to yank it into philosophy.

    And the economic utility of it u as if thatAs the point u has always
    been questioned. When I was an Eng lit undergraduate, the standard joke
    was: aWhat do you say when you meet someone with a PhD in English? Big
    Mac and large fries please.A That joke, alas, has now become the
    organising principle for successive metrics-minded governments to
    sideline the arts in favour of STEM.

    But, wherever the world may stand on the value of an English Literature >degree, if youAre signed up to one as an undergraduate, youAre
    presumably on board with thinking thereAs a point to it. And that means >reading books. Often very long books. Sometimes difficult books. It is
    the entire point of reading English literature. You donAt join a
    parachute regiment and then decide that, on subsequent consideration,
    youAre not wild about the idea of jumping out of planes.

    Eng lit, in this respect, is something of a bellwether. If we lose our >ability to read books u properly read them, all the way through u we are >cooked as a civilisation. Books are what made that civilisation in the
    first place. They are the best means yet devised of transmitting deep >thinking and rich bodies of knowledge across generations. The internet
    is not a substitute. Memes are not a substitute. TikTok videos are not a >substitute. Tweets, fun though they may be to send, are not a
    substitute. And generative AI u that Dunning-Kruger regurgitation
    machine entirely built on the theft of those texts whose readerships it
    is destroying u is certainly no substitute.

    It seems to me that most of the ills that plague our public discourse u
    the polarisation, the binary thinking, the historical illiteracy, the >narcissism, the privileging of emotion over reason where the only
    emotion to be considered is your own, the astounding impunity towards >outright lies u are ills to which the main corrective is reading books.
    Only in reading books do you discover that this issue or that is more >complicated than you thought, that propositions of the both-and type
    rather than the either-or exist, and that there are truths that it is
    not possible to express in a spicy tweet. Books, because (with a few >admitted exceptions, such as On The Road) they are the considered and >painstaking work of many solitary hours and much revision, supply the >antidote to the hot take, the angry riposte and the overconfident
    assertion. They are the slow-food movement of the intellectual world.

    IAd go further, too. To return to the original topic of English
    literature as a subject, I think that fiction and poetry have an >incomparable value. Novels are empathy machines. They ask us (in an age
    when the dominant cultural impulse is to demand the admiration of
    others) to imagine what it might be like to be somebody else. Failure of
    the imagination is a species of moral failure; perhaps the worst. The
    first step on the road to atrocity is the inability to see your enemies
    as fully human. Cockroaches. Zionists. Orcs. Mussies.

    aReading resilienceA? Reading is what gives us resilience. Read some
    damn books, kids, or weAre all doomed.


    Sam Leith

    Excellent. It might also be that moral tension is no longer
    compelling. No longer a reason to spend hours sitting in a chair
    reading and thinking and feeling.

    Shallow self seeking, pleasure seeking is entirely more fun. Gimme a
    shooter video game where I can blow things and people to pieces and
    yell, hooray, gottem. Or a slightly more adult equivalent: Game of
    Thrones, etc.

    The trouble with maturity is that it must be hard earned. Otherwise,
    we are consummately childish creatures right up to the end, as happens
    when culture does not value maturity, it is not taught rigorously in
    education and at home. Then comes the day when we can no longer even
    say what is moral. According to whom? What gives you the right to
    say what I should do? Babes in the woods. Lost. Lost. Lost.
    --
    Noah Sombrero mustachioed villain
    Don't get political with me young man
    or I'll tie you to a railroad track and
    <<<talk>>> to <<<YOOooooo>>>
    Who dares to talk to El Sombrero?
    dares: Ned
    does not dare: Julian shrinks in horror and warns others away

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noah Sombrero@fedora@fea.st to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Mon Oct 6 11:34:47 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On Mon, 06 Oct 2025 10:55:36 -0400, Noah Sombrero <fedora@fea.st>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 6 Oct 2025 14:57:53 +0100, Julian <julianlzb87@gmail.com>
    wrote:


    The question has changed, as one Oxford don noted wanly on social media, >>from aWhat are you reading at university?A to aAre you reading at >>university?A Such is the state of undergraduates entering English >>literature courses these days, brains addled by scrolling on their
    mobile phones, that universities are now offering areading resilienceA >>courses to help them tackle the unfamiliar task of reading long, old, >>sometimes difficult books.

    ItAs a whole new cause of gloom to discover that even students who have >>actively signed up to study English literature at university are >>struggling to read books

    WeAre accustomed, some of us, to feeling gloomy about the sinking >>popularity of Eng lit u once comfortably among the most popular choices
    at A-Level and most applied-for at university, now very much not. WeAre >>accustomed, too, to regretting the gobbetisation of how itAs now taught
    at GCSE and A-Level, and the drive to teach ever shorter texts in the
    face of dwindling teenage concentration spans. But itAs a whole new
    cause of gloom to discover that even those students who have actively >>signed up to study English literature at university are struggling to
    read books.

    There are arguments to be had, heaven knows, about the value and purpose >>of English literature as an academic discipline. They have been being
    had since it first came into being. Did acquaintance with the great
    works, as F R Leavis (and before him George Eliot and many others) >>thought, improve you morally? Or, when that line started to seem a bit >>airy-fairy, was formal analysis u structural morphology, and all that
    jazz u the respectable way to go?

    When literary theory swept through the academy in the 1980s and 90s, you >>could see dons latching on to it with a yelp of relief, as if to say: >>weAre doing something intellectually rigorous now, not just reading >>stories and poems and responding to them. Marxist and feminist critics >>corralled the literary canon into a branch of the social sciences; the >>deconstructionist mob tried to yank it into philosophy.

    And the economic utility of it u as if thatAs the point u has always
    been questioned. When I was an Eng lit undergraduate, the standard joke >>was: aWhat do you say when you meet someone with a PhD in English? Big
    Mac and large fries please.A That joke, alas, has now become the >>organising principle for successive metrics-minded governments to
    sideline the arts in favour of STEM.

    But, wherever the world may stand on the value of an English Literature >>degree, if youAre signed up to one as an undergraduate, youAre
    presumably on board with thinking thereAs a point to it. And that means >>reading books. Often very long books. Sometimes difficult books. It is
    the entire point of reading English literature. You donAt join a
    parachute regiment and then decide that, on subsequent consideration, >>youAre not wild about the idea of jumping out of planes.

    Eng lit, in this respect, is something of a bellwether. If we lose our >>ability to read books u properly read them, all the way through u we are >>cooked as a civilisation. Books are what made that civilisation in the >>first place. They are the best means yet devised of transmitting deep >>thinking and rich bodies of knowledge across generations. The internet
    is not a substitute. Memes are not a substitute. TikTok videos are not a >>substitute. Tweets, fun though they may be to send, are not a
    substitute. And generative AI u that Dunning-Kruger regurgitation
    machine entirely built on the theft of those texts whose readerships it
    is destroying u is certainly no substitute.

    It seems to me that most of the ills that plague our public discourse u >>the polarisation, the binary thinking, the historical illiteracy, the >>narcissism, the privileging of emotion over reason where the only
    emotion to be considered is your own, the astounding impunity towards >>outright lies u are ills to which the main corrective is reading books. >>Only in reading books do you discover that this issue or that is more >>complicated than you thought, that propositions of the both-and type >>rather than the either-or exist, and that there are truths that it is
    not possible to express in a spicy tweet. Books, because (with a few >>admitted exceptions, such as On The Road) they are the considered and >>painstaking work of many solitary hours and much revision, supply the >>antidote to the hot take, the angry riposte and the overconfident >>assertion. They are the slow-food movement of the intellectual world.

    IAd go further, too. To return to the original topic of English
    literature as a subject, I think that fiction and poetry have an >>incomparable value. Novels are empathy machines. They ask us (in an age >>when the dominant cultural impulse is to demand the admiration of
    others) to imagine what it might be like to be somebody else. Failure of >>the imagination is a species of moral failure; perhaps the worst. The >>first step on the road to atrocity is the inability to see your enemies
    as fully human. Cockroaches. Zionists. Orcs. Mussies.

    aReading resilienceA? Reading is what gives us resilience. Read some
    damn books, kids, or weAre all doomed.


    Sam Leith

    Excellent. It might also be that moral tension is no longer
    compelling. No longer a reason to spend hours sitting in a chair
    reading and thinking and feeling.

    Shallow self seeking, pleasure seeking is entirely more fun. Gimme a
    shooter video game where I can blow things and people to pieces and
    yell, hooray, gottem. Or a slightly more adult equivalent: Game of
    Thrones, etc.

    What such pastimes do is encourage us to not treat others as we would
    like to be treated. What the eternal child in us would rather do is
    cry out, fuck you, I rule, I get what I want. Slam, bam, pow, pow.
    You are dead and I don't care.

    The way to lead a child into empathy and moral behavior is to ask, how
    would you feel if somebody treated you that way? Of course such
    measures only work if they are consistent, every time, from all
    sources. Especially classical literature, which is a lot more than shakespeare. But those depictions of what happens when kings and
    wannabe kings do their dirtiest are instructive. MacBeth, Hamlet,
    King Lear. Such stories have no chance in a child's mind against "I
    kill, I win" stories.

    The trouble with maturity is that it must be hard earned. Otherwise,
    we are consummately childish creatures right up to the end, as happens
    when culture does not value maturity, it is not taught rigorously in >education and at home. Then comes the day when we can no longer even
    say what is moral. According to whom? What gives you the right to
    say what I should do? Babes in the woods. Lost. Lost. Lost.
    --
    Noah Sombrero mustachioed villain
    Don't get political with me young man
    or I'll tie you to a railroad track and
    <<<talk>>> to <<<YOOooooo>>>
    Who dares to talk to El Sombrero?
    dares: Ned
    does not dare: Julian shrinks in horror and warns others away

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tara@tsm@fastmail.ca to alt.buddha.short.fat.guy on Mon Oct 6 14:50:10 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy

    On 2025-10-06 9:57 a.m., Julian wrote:

    The question has changed, as one Oxford don noted wanly on social media, from rCyWhat are you reading at university?rCO to rCyAre you reading at university?rCO Such is the state of undergraduates entering English literature courses these days, brains addled by scrolling on their
    mobile phones, that universities are now offering rCyreading resiliencerCO courses to help them tackle the unfamiliar task of reading long, old, sometimes difficult books.

    ItrCOs a whole new cause of gloom to discover that even students who have actively signed up to study English literature at university are
    struggling to read books

    WerCOre accustomed, some of us, to feeling gloomy about the sinking popularity of Eng lit rCo once comfortably among the most popular choices
    at A-Level and most applied-for at university, now very much not. WerCOre accustomed, too, to regretting the gobbetisation of how itrCOs now taught
    at GCSE and A-Level, and the drive to teach ever shorter texts in the
    face of dwindling teenage concentration spans. But itrCOs a whole new
    cause of gloom to discover that even those students who have actively
    signed up to study English literature at university are struggling to
    read books.

    There are arguments to be had, heaven knows, about the value and purpose
    of English literature as an academic discipline. They have been being
    had since it first came into being. Did acquaintance with the great
    works, as F R Leavis (and before him George Eliot and many others)
    thought, improve you morally? Or, when that line started to seem a bit airy-fairy, was formal analysis rCo structural morphology, and all that
    jazz rCo the respectable way to go?

    When literary theory swept through the academy in the 1980s and 90s, you could see dons latching on to it with a yelp of relief, as if to say: werCOre doing something intellectually rigorous now, not just reading stories and poems and responding to them. Marxist and feminist critics corralled the literary canon into a branch of the social sciences; the deconstructionist mob tried to yank it into philosophy.

    And the economic utility of it rCo as if thatrCOs the point rCo has always been questioned. When I was an Eng lit undergraduate, the standard joke
    was: rCyWhat do you say when you meet someone with a PhD in English? Big
    Mac and large fries please.rCO That joke, alas, has now become the organising principle for successive metrics-minded governments to
    sideline the arts in favour of STEM.

    But, wherever the world may stand on the value of an English Literature degree, if yourCOre signed up to one as an undergraduate, yourCOre presumably on board with thinking thererCOs a point to it. And that means reading books. Often very long books. Sometimes difficult books. It is
    the entire point of reading English literature. You donrCOt join a
    parachute regiment and then decide that, on subsequent consideration, yourCOre not wild about the idea of jumping out of planes.

    Eng lit, in this respect, is something of a bellwether. If we lose our ability to read books rCo properly read them, all the way through rCo we are cooked as a civilisation. Books are what made that civilisation in the
    first place. They are the best means yet devised of transmitting deep thinking and rich bodies of knowledge across generations. The internet
    is not a substitute. Memes are not a substitute. TikTok videos are not a substitute. Tweets, fun though they may be to send, are not a
    substitute. And generative AI rCo that Dunning-Kruger regurgitation
    machine entirely built on the theft of those texts whose readerships it
    is destroying rCo is certainly no substitute.

    It seems to me that most of the ills that plague our public discourse rCo the polarisation, the binary thinking, the historical illiteracy, the narcissism, the privileging of emotion over reason where the only
    emotion to be considered is your own, the astounding impunity towards outright lies rCo are ills to which the main corrective is reading books. Only in reading books do you discover that this issue or that is more complicated than you thought, that propositions of the both-and type
    rather than the either-or exist, and that there are truths that it is
    not possible to express in a spicy tweet. Books, because (with a few admitted exceptions, such as On The Road) they are the considered and painstaking work of many solitary hours and much revision, supply the antidote to the hot take, the angry riposte and the overconfident
    assertion. They are the slow-food movement of the intellectual world.

    IrCOd go further, too. To return to the original topic of English
    literature as a subject, I think that fiction and poetry have an incomparable value. Novels are empathy machines. They ask us (in an age
    when the dominant cultural impulse is to demand the admiration of
    others) to imagine what it might be like to be somebody else. Failure of
    the imagination is a species of moral failure; perhaps the worst. The
    first step on the road to atrocity is the inability to see your enemies
    as fully human. Cockroaches. Zionists. Orcs. Mussies.

    rCyReading resiliencerCO? Reading is what gives us resilience. Read some damn books, kids, or werCOre all doomed.


    Sam Leith

    Most studies have shown that reading aloud consistently to kids leads to
    a love of reading as adults.


    "Several factors may be squeezing out the once-popular act of reading
    aloud to children routinely at home; busy lives, the allure of screens,
    and changing sentiments around readingrCOs purpose top the list.

    For parents who have grown up on screens, reading for pleasure is
    something that not a lot of them do.
    Notably, a HarperCollins study showed how adultsrCO and childrenrCOs perceptions of readingrCOs intended purpose has shifted in recent years.

    Generation Z parents, those born between 1997 and2012, who participated
    in the survey and are considered rCLdigital natives,rCY were more likely
    than older parents (Millennials and Generation X) to say they view
    reading as rCLa subject to learnrCY as opposed to a rCLfun or enriching activity.rCY

    https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/fewer-parents-are-reading-aloud-to-their-kids-why-that-matters/2025/06#:~:text=Why%20fewer%20parents%20read%20aloud,a%20fun%20thing%20to%20do.rCY

    :(

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2