From Newsgroup: alt.bible

Yet |ore4+ochristians|ore4 harbor the thoughts of satan teaching that the gifts of the Holy Spirit of God, wane.

What foolishness. That plays right into the hands of the evil one, sowing seeds of doubt. Doubt that would cause confusion and further weaken the weak as that gives credence to the power of Satan and weakens the faith of babes.

Some foolish doubters even claim that the works of God disappeared after the book of Galatians, and it was written before the books to the Corinthian by several years, and it is in the books of Corinthians where the gifts of the Holy Spirit are spoken of as well as ministries. And Pau; went tp the Galatiams before his missionary journey too the Corinthians and elsewhere as well.

1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak
with tongues.

Just an example of the proof that their doctrines are wrong. That they teach another Gospel.

1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Those in whom the Holy Spirit does not dwell is not of God.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I share these things for the well being of those who desire to be of Christ and strengthened by the spirit of God. Let the weak be strong in the Lord.


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========================================
Fri, 26 Sep 2025 23:30:27 -0700
<10b80a3$1hbhr$1@dont-email.me>
"Robert" (a.k.a "None", "Dr. Who",
"Anonymous", "HTH", "ahisrwic", "Rock", "KK") wrote: ========================================

Yet |ore4+ochristians|ore4 harbor the thoughts of satan teaching that the gifts of the Holy Spirit of God, wane.

Notice how he tries to associate any denial of charismatic lies with the teaching of Satan, without any evidence whatsoever. Jesus said the opposite:

rCLAn evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign...rCY(Matthew
16:4, ESV)

If anything, Satan is trying to get people to seek after signs rather
than walk by faith in God's word.

What foolishness. That plays right into the hands of the evil one, sowing seeds of doubt. Doubt that would cause confusion and further weaken the weak as that gives credence to the power of Satan and weakens the faith of babes.

idem.

Some foolish doubters even claim that the works of God disappeared after the book of Galatians, and it was written before the books to the Corinthian by several years, and it is in the books of Corinthians where the gifts of the Holy Spirit are spoken of as well as ministries. And Pau; went tp the Galatiams before his missionary journey too the Corinthians and elsewhere as well.

idem.

1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

When tongues were being spoken, they were not to be forbidden. That says nothing at all which indicates tongues must continue until Christ returns.

1 Corinthians 13 just said where there are tongues, they shall cease.

rCL...as for tongues, they will cease...rCY (1 Corinthians 13:8rCo10,
ESV)

That's in the middle voice. It means they cease of themselves. Nothing
had to act on them to make them cease. By contrast, gifts like prophecy
are made to cease by the appearing of that which is perfect.

Just an example of the proof that their doctrines are wrong. That they teach another Gospel.

idem. The Bible plainly states that where there are tongues, they shall
cease. That means they stop of themselves and are not made to stop by
the coming of that which is perfect.

1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Notice, when John explained how to discern the spirits to see who is a
child of God and who is a child of the devil, he didn't say a single
thing about whether or not someone believes sign gifts continue until
Christ returns.

Yet "Robert" cites his words as if it proved his point. Nothing in 1
John even hints at the idea that the child of God must believe sign
gifts continue, or that he must exercise those gifts or promote those
gifts.

Those in whom the Holy Spirit does not dwell is not of God.

And the fruit of the Spirit is:

rCLBut the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience,
kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control;
against such things there is no law.rCY (Galatians 5:22rCo23, ESV)

Notice, the evidence of the Spirit dwelling in believers today, is the
fruit of the Spirit, not signs and wonders. That ship already sailed and fulfilled its purpose during the lifetime of the apostles (Hebrews 2:3-4).

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

idem. Notice that not a word of Scripture Robert cited says anything at
all about sign gifts. Yet he pretends it supports his carnal Charismatic contradictions.

I share these things for the well being of those who desire to be of Christ and strengthened by the spirit of God. Let the weak be strong in the Lord.

rCLAn evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign...rCY (Matthew
16:4, ESV)

Here are 10 Bible evidences that signs and wonders ceased during the
lifetime of the apostles:

The sign gifts like tongues, healings, and miracles are what ceased
after they confirmed the gospel, just as the Bible indicated they would.

1) The Bible plainly states that gifts like tongues would cease
of themselves (1 Corinthians 13:8):

rCLLove never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for
tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.
For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the
perfect comes, the partial will pass away.rCY (1 Corinthians
13:8rCo10, ESV)

The Bible clearly indicates that tongues "will cease". This
action is in the middle voice. When the middle voice is used,
it means the subject is acting on itself. This shows that in
contrast to prophecies and knowledge which will be made to
cease, tongues will cease of themselves. They had a built-in
time limit. They will not have to be made to cease by the
arrival of "the perfect". If you hold that "the perfect" is the
coming of Christ (as "Robert" does), that means tongues would
cease of themselves before He returns.

By contrast, prophecies and knowledge will "pass away". This is
in the passive voice. That means they will be made to cease by
the arrival of "the perfect". When "the perfect" comes, then
prophecies and knowledge will be made to pass away. "Robert"
holds that "the perfect" refers to the coming of Christ. If so,
then prophecy and knowledge are the only two gifts which the
Bible says the coming of Christ causes to cease. The Bible
nowhere teaches that any other sign gift must remain until "the
perfect" comes.

The Bible nowhere teaches or indicates gifts like tongues,
miracles, and healings, must remain in effect until Christ
returns. There is no future tense in the Greek, which
necessitates perpetual, ongoing action. Citing a verse where
Jesus predicts people would do signs and wonders (e.g. Matthew
24:24; Mark 13:22), doesn't necessitate they had to "keep on
happening" till Christ returns. It just meant there had to be a
time when they would occur, after Christ predicted it. That
already happened (Hebrews 2:3-4).

2) The purpose of the sign gifts has already been fulfilled

The Bible makes it clear that the original purpose of the sign
giftsrCosuch as tongues, healing, and miraclesrCowas not to
entertain, excite, or even to spiritually nourish the believer,
but to *confirm* GodrCOs message to unbelievers, particularly
Israel. This purpose goes all the way back to Isaiah 28:11rCo12,
where God said,

rCLFor by people of strange lips and with a foreign tongue the LORD
will speak to this people, to whom he has said, rCyThis is rest;
give rest to the wearyrCO; and yet they would not hearrCY (Isaiah
28:11rCo12, ESV).

Paul quotes this in 1 Corinthians 14:21 to show that the gift of
tongues served as a sign of judgment against unbelieving
IsraelrCoa foreign tongue declaring God's word to them because
they rejected the clear message given in their own.

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14:22,

rCLThus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers,
while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believersrCY
(1 Corinthians 14:22, ESV).

So tongues were never meant to edify believers as much as they
were meant to shock and confront unbelievers, particularly
Israel, showing that God had moved beyond them to include
Gentiles in His redemptive plan.

Hebrews 2:3rCo4 also tells us why signs and wonders were given:

rCLIt was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us
by those who heard, while God also bore witness by signs and
wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit
distributed according to his willrCY (Hebrews 2:3rCo4, ESV).

The signs were GodrCOs testimonyrCoa divine stamp of approval to
validate the new message of salvation through Jesus Christ,
especially as it was being preached for the first time.

In Mark 16:20, we read that the apostles

rCLwent out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with
them and confirmed the message by accompanying signsrCY (Mark
16:20, ESV).

Again, signs served the function of confirmation. They were
temporary supports meant to establish the authority of the
message during a foundational period. Once the foundation was
laid and the gospel was confirmed (Hebrews 2:3rCo4), these signs
faded of themselves, just as 1 Corinthians 13:8 said they
would. You don't hear about signs and wonders happening in the
churches after Galatians. They were never meant to be
permanent. Their purpose was tied to a specific
audiencerCounbelieving IsraelrCoand a specific timerCothe
establishment of the gospel through the apostles.

God has already confirmed the gospel with signs and wonders. When
God finishes a work such as creation (Genesis 2:1-2) or
redemption (Hebrews 10:12-14), He doesn't have to keep doing it
over and over again. That doesn't mean He "changes". It just
means He has already finished the work, and therefore we should
rest from it as well.

3) Scripture now confirms the signs as evidence for future
generations.

The writer of Hebrews speaks to these second generation believers
as if they have no first-hand experience with the sign gifts.
He expects them to believe in the gospel on the basis of the
testimony which was already wrought through those who first
heard the Lord (Hebrews 2:3-4).

rCLhow will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? That
salvation, first spoken by the Lord, was confirmed to us by
those who heard, God also testifying with them, both by signs
and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy
Spirit according to His own will.rCY (Hebrews 2:3rCo4, LSB)

Hebrews says that gospel "was confirmed" by the "signs",
"wonders" and "miracles". The Greek verb here is ebebai+ith-o
(b+E+#+|+#+#+|-A++++), from the verb bebaio+i, meaning rCLto confirm,
establish, make firm.rCY It is in the aorist passive indicative,
which points to a completed action in the past. It has no
indication of ongoing confirmation. This refers to how God
once-for-all validated the gospel message through the apostolic
generation. God now expects believers to believe the gospel on
the basis of past confirmation.

Likewise, by the time John wrote his gospel, he expected people
to believe in Jesus and the gospel on the basis of his own
testimony about the signs and wonders:

rCLNow Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples,
which are not written in this book; but these are written so
that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,
and that by believing you may have life in his name.rCY (John
20:30rCo31, ESV)

The written testimony of Scripture is what the Holy Spirit now
uses to bear witness to the signs and wonders. Clearly, God now
expects people to believe in Jesus on the basis of this
Bible testimony. There is no deficiency in Scripture to
persuade people to believe in Jesus Christ, that the Bible
should have to be continually confirmed over and over again,
after God already confirmed it.

Charismatics like to pretend like you're the one who lacks faith
if you don't believe signs and wonders are still happening
today. Yet it is they who lack faith in Scripture to believe
what God has already confirmed and declared in the Scriptures.

4) An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign (Matthew
12:39):

rCLBut He answered and said to them, rCLAn evil and adulterous
generation eagerly seeks for a sign...rCY (Matthew 12:39, LSB)

When Jesus said, rCLAn evil and adulterous generation eagerly seeks
for a signrCY (Matthew 12:39, LSB), He was rebuking the Jewish
leaders who demanded miraculous proof even after witnessing His
works. They were not seeking truthrCothey were testing God. Their
desire for signs wasnrCOt based in faith, but in stubborn
unbelief.

Jesus had already performed many miracles that clearly pointed to
His identity as the Messiah. Yet they refused to believe,
always asking for more. This constant demand for signs revealed
a heart that was unfaithful to GodrCorCLadulterousrCYrCochasing after
wonders rather than receiving the truth already revealed. True
faith doesnrCOt need a sign to believe; it believes based on
GodrCOs Word.

This further supports the idea that signs were never meant to be
a permanent feature of GodrCOs dealings with His people. When
people continually crave signs, theyrCOre aligning themselves
with the same faithless spirit Jesus condemned.

5) We hear nothing about signs, wonders, or miracles in the
churches after the book of Galatians.

After the book of Galatians, the New Testament shifts its focus
away from the outward sign giftsrCotongues, prophecy, healing,
and miraclesrCoand instead emphasizes faith, sound doctrine,
perseverance, and the fruit of the Spirit. This silence is not
accidental; it reflects the maturing of the church and the
fading role of signs, which had already served their
foundational purpose.

In Galatians itself (written early), Paul refers to miracles in
3:5: rCLDoes he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles
among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?rCY
(Galatians 3:5, ESV). But after this pointrCothrough Ephesians,
Philippians, Colossians, the Thessalonian letters, the
Pastorals (1rCo2 Timothy and Titus), and even PhilemonrCothere is
not one mention of tongues, prophecy, or miraculous healings
being practiced in the churches. The absence is striking.

6) Paul counselled sick people to take medicine, not seek faith
healings.

Paul urges Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach and
frequent ailments (1 Timothy 5:23), mentions that he had to
leave Trophimus sick in Miletus (2 Timothy 4:20), and
emphasizes the endurance of suffering rather than the removal
of it. In every case, there is no appeal to miraculous healing
or tongues as a solution or evidence of spiritual vitality.
Even PaulrCOs own thorn in the flesh remains (2 Corinthians
12:7rCo9), and GodrCOs answer is not healing, but grace. There's no
indication Paul rebuked Timothy for a "lack of faith".

This silence shows a natural shift from the early, sign-filled
period meant to *confirm* the gospel (Hebrews 2:3rCo4), to a
settled era where faith rests on the Word, not on visible
wonders. By the time of the later epistles, the foundation had
been laid, and the church was being built up through teaching,
exhortation, love, and endurancerCono longer through signs and
wonders.

7) John mentions nothing about signs and wonders when showing how
to discern who are the children of God.

In his epistles, the Apostle John is deeply concerned with
helping believers know who truly belongs to God. But when he
lays out the tests for discerning the children of God, he says
nothing about signs, wonders, tongues, or miracles. This is
telling.

In 1 John 3:10, John writes, rCLBy this it is evident who are the
children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever
does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one
who does not love his brotherrCY (1 John 3:10, ESV). The mark of
a child of God is righteous living and brotherly loverConot
spiritual manifestations.

Throughout 1 John, the apostle offers several criteria by which
believers can test the genuineness of othersrCoand themselves:

rCo Confessing Jesus Christ has come in the flesh (1 John 4:2)
rCo Obedience to GodrCOs commandments (1 John 2:3rCo4)
rCo Not loving the world (1 John 2:15)
rCo Loving fellow believers (1 John 3:14)
rCo Practicing righteousness (1 John 3:7rCo10)
rCo Holding to apostolic teaching (1 John 4:6)

These are the Spirit-produced fruits that identify someone as a
true child of God. But nowhere does John say, rCLLook for those
who speak in tongues,rCY or, rCLWatch for those who heal or
prophesy.rCY In fact, when he warns about false prophets and the
spirit of antichrist, he gives the test of doctrinerCowhat they
believe about JesusrConot their ability to perform signs (1 John
4:1rCo3).

This silence confirms that by the time of JohnrCOs writingrColikely
the latest of the apostlesrCothe sign gifts were no longer the
measure of spirituality or legitimacy. The church was to test
spirits and discern believers based on character, doctrine, and
love, not on outward wonders. Signs and wonders had fulfilled
their purpose; now, it was the enduring fruit of the Spirit
that proved who belonged to God.

8) James was talking about healing for those who repent of sin.

James 5:14rCo16 is not a blanket promise of miraculous healing for
every illness. The context makes it clear that James is
addressing sickness brought on by sinrCochastening from God meant
to lead a believer to repentance. The Greek word for rCLsickrCY in
verse 14 is *asthene+i*, which can mean physical illness but is
frequently used to describe spiritual weakness. For example, in
Romans 14:1, Paul says, rCLAs for the one who is *weak* in faith,
welcome him,rCY and in 2 Corinthians 12:10, rCLFor when I am
*weak*, then I am strong.rCY Likewise, in 1 Corinthians 8:11rCo12,
the *weaker brother* is spiritually vulnerable, not physically
ill. These uses show the flexibility of *asthene+i*, and that
its meaning depends on context.

In verse 15, James uses the even rarer word *kamn+i*, which also
points to spiritual weariness. It appears only one other time
in the New Testament, in Hebrews 12:3, where believers are
exhorted to consider Christ rCLso that you may not grow weary
(*kamn+i*) or fainthearted.rCY It describes spiritual exhaustion,
not physical disease.

But the clearest evidence comes in verse 16, which begins with
rCLThereforerCYrCorCLTherefore, confess your sins to one another and
pray for one another, that you may be healedrCY (James 5:16,
ESV). That *therefore* ties the healing directly to *confession
of sin*. The entire section builds toward this conclusion. The
sick person is not simply physically unwell; he is spiritually
compromised, likely under divine discipline. He calls the
elders, not for a healing show, but for spiritual help. The
elders pray, he confesses, and God forgives and heals. This is
a spiritual restoration process, not a display of sign gifts.

So James 5 is not about modern faith healers or miracle crusades.
ItrCOs about a straying believer who is restored through humble
confession, elder-led prayer, and the mercy of God. The healing
comes because the sin is addressed, and GodrCOs hand of
chastening is lifted. ItrCOs a passage about repentance and
restorationrConot miracles on demand.

9) Real healers in the Bible were being thronged by the masses.

In Scripture, whenever God truly empowered someone with the gift
of healing, the result was immediate, public, and overwhelming.
People *thronged* themrCopressing in from every side, desperate
to be healed. This was not a controlled environment with dim
lighting and soft music. It was chaotic, urgent, and public.

When Jesus healed, crowds flooded to Him. rCLAnd great crowds came
to him, bringing with them the lame, the blind, the crippled,
the mute, and many others, and they put them at his feet, and
he healed themrCY (Matthew 15:30, ESV). Mark records, rCLSo that
Jesus could no longer openly enter a town, but was out in
desolate places, and *people were coming to him from every
quarter*rCY (Mark 1:45, ESV). The demand was so intense that
people tore through roofs (Mark 2:4), pressed through crowds
(Mark 5:27), and followed Him for miles, sometimes without food
(Mark 8:2).

The apostles experienced the same. rCLThey even carried out the
sick into the streetsrCa that at least Peter's shadow might fall
on some of them. The people also gathered from the towns around
Jerusalem, bringing the sick and those afflicted with unclean
spirits, and they were all healedrCY (Acts 5:15rCo16, ESV). Note
that: *all* were healed.

Today, modern so-called healers donrCOt experience anything like
this. They set up scheduled services, carefully stage
environments, and limit what can be seen or verified. People
are not bringing their terminally ill family members from every
direction. City hospitals remain full. Paralyzed children do
not leap from wheelchairs en masse. There are no accounts of
entire neighborhoods being emptied of the sick because
someonerCOs shadow passed by.

This alone speaks volumes. The biblical healers had *real*,
public, and undeniable power. That power drew the desperate in
droves. The absence of such crowds around modern rCLhealersrCY is
not an accidentrCoit is evidence that the sign gift of healing,
as described in the New Testament, has ceased.

10) Real Bible healers cured people immediately and completely.

In Scripture, when God granted the gift of healing, the results
were immediate and completerConever partial, never delayed. There
are no examples of someone being told, rCLGo home and recover
over the next few weeks.rCY Healing happened on the spot, in full
view of others, and with undeniable effect.

In Matthew 8:3, Jesus touched a leper and rCLimmediately his
leprosy was cleansed.rCY In Matthew 9:6rCo7, Jesus told the
paralyzed man, rCLRise, pick up your bed and go home. And he rose
and went home.rCY When Peter healed the lame man at the temple
gate, Acts 3:7rCo8 says, rCLAnd immediately his feet and ankles
were made strong. And leaping up he stood and began to walk.rCY
Not only did he walkrCohe *leapt*.

There was no therapy, no slow improvement, no uncertainty. In
Acts 9:34, Peter told Aeneas, who had been bedridden for eight
years, rCLJesus Christ heals you; rise and make your bed.rCY He got
up *at once*. The results were total and instantaneous.

This is categorically different from what is claimed today.
Modern rCLhealingsrCY are often described as gradual, emotional, or
internalrCothings that cannot be verified on the spot. But
biblical healing required no process, and no interpretation.
The blind could see, the deaf could hear, the lame could walk,
and it happened instantly. Anything less does not match the
pattern God set through Christ and His apostles.

Some point to the healing in Mark 8rConot JohnrCowhere Jesus first
restores a manrCOs sight partially, then fully, as evidence that
healing in the Bible was sometimes gradual. But a closer look
shows this was a unique, purposeful exceptionrConot the normrCoand
even then, the healing was complete within moments.

Mark 8:23rCo25 says that Jesus spit on the manrCOs eyes and laid His
hands on him. The man said, rCLI see people, but they look like
trees, walking.rCY Then Jesus laid His hands on his eyes again,
and rCLhe opened his eyes, his sight was restored, and he saw
everything clearly.rCY

This was not a healing that took place over hours or days. It
unfolded in two quick stages, both under ChristrCOs direct
control. ThererCOs no indication that the man lacked faith or
that some outside factor delayed the healing. Rather, Jesus
deliberately chose to heal him in two steps, likely to
illustrate somethingrCoperhaps the disciplesrCO own spiritual
dullness, as the surrounding passage emphasizes their failure
to understand (Mark 8:17rCo21).

But even here, the healing was full and undeniable. The man
went from blindness to perfect sight within the span of a
single encounter with Christ. This remains consistent with the
biblical pattern: real healing was complete, immediate, and
obviousrConever vague, drawn-out, or unverifiable.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

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On Sep 28, 2025, Christ Rose wrote (Message-ID:<edc10d62-9b01-4604-b40f-baf1f03a3663@christrose.news>):

Yet |ore4+ochristians|ore4 harbor the thoughts of satan teaching that the gifts of the Holy Spirit of God, wane.

Notice how he tries to associate any denial of charismatic lies with the teaching of Satan, without any evidence whatsoever. Jesus said the opposite:

rCLAn evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign...rCY(Matthew
16:4, ESV)

If anything, Satan is trying to get people to seek after signs rather
than walk by faith in God's word.

I am going to present a new commandment of Jesus in order to establish a base as well as the reasoning behind it, per God.

Jhn 13:34-35

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

35 By this shall allmenknow that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Here is the understanding of that, in practice.

1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that
loveth not his brother.

This is the truth of the Lord, and it is not for me to judge, let God and the others judge.

Now onwards to the scripture used without understanding. As Taught by the Lord.

Charismatic? Gifts of the Spirit? Those who claim that these things are of
the devil? Healings, Casting out demons, miracles, all done as the spirit of God dispenses them severally amongst men?

Here is what Jesus said in regards to the Pharisaical ones of his day. Those who claimed to follow the scriptures....

Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit

Mat 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.

Mat 12:23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children
cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not
with me scattereth abroad.

Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy againstthe HolyGhost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Those who do such things have no fear of God within them. And do not respect the word of God as given to men.

Now.... On to the subject that is in concert with all of the above. This is the next point of the preaching of Jesus in this chapter. Which addresses how one walks as a believer. Not rCLshould walkrCY but walks.

A Tree Is Known by Its Fruit

Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the
tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth
good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Obviously Jesus here was speaking to the Jewish Disbelievers of His day,
those that were opposed to the works of the Father as done by Jesus via the baptism of the Holy Spirit when his ministry began. Yet the doctrine is applicable to those who follow him as describes those that say they do, but
do not. As they do it not by their works. Blessed is the man who follows the path of the righteous who walks in the righteousness of God the Father.

Next onwards to the final point, of AI Rosie.

The Sign of Jonah

Mat 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them,An evil and adulterous
generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of
the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

V 42 references the generation to who Jesus was speaking in V39 the other scriptures here point to the people who will stand up in judgment against those Jews, since they had the full raw truth presented to them, with power, showing that God was with him. What they had been given was far less, yet
they believed.

Lastly, Jesus spoke about those who were set free, but then yielded back to the ways of the flesh and their ending was far worse than had they never been set free. Verses 43 - 46.

Now I will return to reading what he went on to say, and depending on what I read I may or may not reply.

For those that do not know, I call this person AI Rosie. As they take the
name of Christ in vain, and use it for their own purposes. They she or he,
are doing their best to not attach their name to what they say, and use AI to generate their rCycommentariesrCO they also have apparently seated themselves in the Christnews NG as if it was theirs, which it is not. I have yet to see any of their tens of thousands of followers post there, which they claimed to have when they first arrived on the scene.

I had them KFrCOd due to malicious behaviors across all NGrCOs. Something changed in their setup, I will fix that and put them into the bin after I
read the rest of their post. SO I will not see their reply to this one. As usually God will be the judge of them in the end. May God have mercy on their soul.

From my end I forgive them, and I know that if they have not committed the unpardonable that it is Gods will that they ask and receive forgiveness from Him first and foremost.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Sep 28, 2025, Christ Rose wrote (Message-ID:<edc10d62-9b01-4604-b40f-baf1f03a3663@christrose.news>):

I addressed the former so it was snipped out of this, I will address this
next section from the word of God, not my words but his.

What foolishness. That plays right into the hands of the evil one, sowing seeds of doubt. Doubt that would cause confusion and further weaken the weak
as that gives credence to the power of Satan and weakens the faith of babes.

idem.

Some foolish doubters even claim that the works of God disappeared after the
book of Galatians, and it was written before the books to the Corinthian by several years, and it is in the books of Corinthians where the gifts of the Holy Spirit are spoken of as well as ministries. And Pau; went tp the Galatiams before his missionary journey too the Corinthians and elsewhere as
well.

idem.

1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

When tongues were being spoken, they were not to be forbidden. That says nothing at all which indicates tongues must continue until Christ returns.

1 Corinthians 13 just said where there are tongues, they shall cease.

rCL...as for tongues, they will cease...rCY (1 Corinthians 13:8rCo10,
ESV)

That's in the middle voice. It means they cease of themselves. Nothing
had to act on them to make them cease. By contrast, gifts like prophecy
are made to cease by the appearing of that which is perfect.

Just an example of the proof that their doctrines are wrong. That they teach
another Gospel.

idem. The Bible plainly states that where there are tongues, they shall cease. That means they stop of themselves and are not made to stop by
the coming of that which is perfect.

******************************

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

******************************
That which is perfect is to come, Speaks of the real Christ and his return to the earth for the millennial rule. At which point these gifts are no longer needed as he rules the earth directly for a time.

Until them all the Gifts of the Spirit of God are needed, an Paul depended highly on them for the sake of a solid grounding for those that believed in Christ Jesus that their faith not be shaken and doubt rooted out.

1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1Co 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

IOW not with commentaries, fancy words, and Paul was very highly educated,
but in the demonstration of the Holy Spirit and His Power.

The demonstrations of the power of the Holy Spirit confirmed the teachings of those that taught and shared Jesus with others. So that the fisherman, as
well as a tax man, and others of High education, when they taught of God, the power of the Holy Spirit was the same through all of them.

1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God
heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Notice, when John explained how to discern the spirits to see who is a
child of God and who is a child of the devil, he didn't say a single
thing about whether or not someone believes sign gifts continue until
Christ returns.

Yet "Robert" cites his words as if it proved his point. Nothing in 1
John even hints at the idea that the child of God must believe sign
gifts continue, or that he must exercise those gifts or promote those
gifts.

1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

1Jn 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love
the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Why limit the outward teaching and works of the spirit to one book?

Jesus said, as recorded by this same John, Jhn 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

And as taught by Pau all the gifts of the spirit are for the body of Christ
to edify, uplift, them all in all the various facets of them.

So if you doubt it, then just say so. Of course you will not find any scripture that supports doubt and disbelief. Scripture clearly points out
that God will find no pleasure in those people. After all it is him that one should strive to please.

Those in whom the Holy Spirit does not dwell is not of God.

And the fruit of the Spirit is:

rCLBut the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience,
kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control;
against such things there is no law.rCY (Galatians 5:22rCo23, ESV)

Notice, the evidence of the Spirit dwelling in believers today, is the
fruit of the Spirit, not signs and wonders. That ship already sailed and fulfilled its purpose during the lifetime of the apostles (Hebrews 2:3-4).

Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Heb 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Total salvation encompasses all that Jesus has to offer us for a complete picture, without limitations.

There is nothing in these scriptures that limits it to the 13 Apostles, especially as the office of Apostle is still in effect today.

1Co 11:1 Be imitators of me, exactly as I also am of Christ.

Now he tells the Corinthians to imitate him, just as he also copied Christ.
He renounced personal advantages and rights in order to help those about him. The Corinthians should do likewise, and not selfishly parade their freedoms
in such a way as to hinder the gospel of Christ or offend the weak brother.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he
is none of his.

idem. Notice that not a word of Scripture Robert cited says anything at
all about sign gifts. Yet he pretends it supports his carnal Charismatic contradictions.

You are the one who squawks about such thing, as you insist on doubting the will of God. To me as well as the authors in the NT, it was a part of
everyday life and is done according to the will and order of things Godly and according to His purposes.

I share these things for the well being of those who desire to be of Christ and strengthened by the spirit of God. Let the weak be strong in the Lord.

rCLAn evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign...rCY (Matthew
16:4, ESV)

Mat 16:3 And in the morning, you say, 'Today it will storm, for the sky is
red and lowering.' Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times.

Mat 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet." Then He left them and went away.

Are you able to discern the signs of the times?

Here are 10 Bible evidences that signs and wonders ceased during the
lifetime of the apostles:

The sign gifts like tongues, healings, and miracles are what ceased
after they confirmed the gospel, just as the Bible indicated they would.

You were shown as the readers of this reply are, that they are still in
effect according to scripture.
Not only that, but the evidences of the workings of God are going on this
very day, world wide. People still have needs that only Jesus can fulfill.
The Blind to see, the deaf to hear, the mute that are enabled to speak. The cripple straightened those bound with evil spirits set free. Body parts restored, the Dead raised to life. The prayers of believers for the restoration of their nations, etc.The outing of evil ones in powerful places, millions coming to the Lord for salvation, freedom from drugs and on and on and on.

God started his work in the churches. His judgments upon them, and while that is still ongoing and not yet fully complete the Believers are reaching out to those round about to save the Lost and deliver them from the chains that bind them.

Oh, and I took the liberty to snip the balance of your doubt and disbelief.

I pray that your heart be softened towards God, and that you would receive Jesus into your heart, that you would be baptized by Jesus with the Holy Spirit and fire according to the word of God. For at that time you will find out that he loves you with a depth you have never known.

Let Jesus the Christ have the preeminence and humble yourself to him.
I will now put you into another and more secure KF.


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========================================
Tue, 30 Sep 2025 11:38:15 -0700
<10bh82n$3sduh$1@dont-email.me>
"Robert" (a.k.a "None", "Dr. Who",
"Anonymous", "HTH", "ahisrwic", "Rock", "KK") wrote: ========================================

I had them KFrCOd due to malicious behaviors across all NGrCOs. Something changed in their setup, I will fix that and put them into the bin after I read the rest of their post. SO I will not see their reply to this one. As usually God will be the judge of them in the end. May God have mercy on their soul.

Says the stupid liar who has been using half a dozen sock-puppets to
monitor and respond to my posts whenever his charismatic lies get
refuted from the Bible.

"Robert" has dedicated his life trying to poison people's minds against other's posts (even when it's solid gospel and Bible teaching), if it
comes out of anyone's mouth but his own.

Envy is discernible, even to the unregenerate:

rCLFor he knew that it was out of envy that they had delivered him
up.rCY (Matthew 27:18, ESV)

Envy manifests itself by contradicting Bible truth and trying to poison people's minds against those who proclaim it:

rCLBut when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with
envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things
spoken by Paul.rCY (Acts 13:45, NKJV)

rCLBut the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned
their minds against the brothers.rCY (Acts 14:2, ESV)

Envy shows evidence of people who are operating under the influence of
demonic wisdom.

rCLBut if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do
not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not
descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where
envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are
there.rCY (James 3:14rCo16, NKJV)

Daily, I proclaim the same gospel in here that Paul said leads men to
saving faith in Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Daily, I post articles
which I know to be solidly based on the truth of the Bible. "Robert"
does not offer any convincing Bible evidence that the content I'm
posting in here is inconsistent with what the Bible teaches. Instead, he simply tries to poison people's minds against by association, that
teaching which he has been unable to refute from Scripture.

When someone devotes his life (as "Robert" has done) in an effort to
poison people's minds against what I know to be sound Bible teaching, he
is operating consistently with someone who is under the compulsion of
demonic wisdom envy (James 3:14-15).

https://christrose.news/demonic-wisdom
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
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========================================
Tue, 30 Sep 2025 11:38:15 -0700
<10bh82n$3sduh$1@dont-email.me>
"Robert" (a.k.a "None", "Dr. Who",
"Anonymous", "HTH", "ahisrwic", "Rock", "KK") wrote: ========================================

On Sep 28, 2025, Christ Rose wrote (Message-ID:<edc10d62-9b01-4604-b40f-baf1f03a3663@christrose.news>):

Yet |ore4+ochristians|ore4 harbor the thoughts of satan teaching that the >>> gifts of the Holy Spirit of God, wane.

Notice how he tries to associate any denial of charismatic lies with the
teaching of Satan, without any evidence whatsoever. Jesus said the opposite: >>
rCLAn evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign...rCY(Matthew
16:4, ESV)

If anything, Satan is trying to get people to seek after signs rather
than walk by faith in God's word.

I am going to present a new commandment of Jesus in order to establish a base as well as the reasoning behind it, per God.

After a careful review of everything "Robert" wrote below, there was not
a single shred of evidence anywhere in anything he said which either
shows from the Bible that sign gifts must continue until Christ returns,
or that denying that sign gifts must persist until Christ returns is an unpardonable sin.

Jhn 13:34-35

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Notice, LOVE (not signs and wonders) is the primary evidence of the Holy Spirit's work in a believer's life. But that's not what Charismatics
teach. They try to make people doubt their salvation, or think they're
carnal and lacking faith in God UNLESS they seek after signs and
wonders. That's the perfect antithesis to what Jesus taught.

35 By this shall allmenknow that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

idem.

Here is the understanding of that, in practice.

1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Notice, there's again nothing there about how the child of God should be believing in and/or performing signs and wonders either. The entire
epistle of 1 John, while it explains how to discern a child of God from
a child of the devil, says NOTHING whatsoever about the child of God
having faith to perform miracles or signs and wonders. It's all about
love for other believers, practicing right living, etc. That's how John counseled the churches to discern those who were of God rather than the
devil. "Robert" cites these passages, as if it proves that you're carnal
and lacking faith unless you seek after and believe signs and wonders
are for the church today. They show just the opposite.

This is the truth of the Lord,

...and so far it shows that love, not signs and wonders is the evidence
of the Spirit's work in a believer's life.

and it is not for me to judge, let God and the others judge.

(..He says as he labors in judgment to poison people's minds against
those who proclaim sound Bible doctrine while he promotes carnal,
Charismatic lies.)

Now onwards to the scripture used without understanding.

(by "Robert")

As Taught by the Lord.

(He claims...)

Charismatic? Gifts of the Spirit?

Notice the lie. He says "gifts of the Spirit", as if I were denying that
ANY gifts of the Spirit are for today. I've never said any such thing,
but specifically referred to "sign gifts" like speaking in tongues and healings. He can't refute what was actually stated, so he builds a
falsehood and pretends to defeat it, when it was never what the other
person said to begin with.

Those who claim that these things are of
the devil?

Notice, it is "Robert" who claimed to the effect that people who DO NOT believe sign gifts are for today are acting by Satan. Yet Jesus clearly stated:

rCL...An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign...rCY
(Matthew 12:39, ESV)


Would Jesus lead people to seek after signs and wonders? No. He would
expect them to believe on the testimony of His apostles, just as He did doubting Thomas in John 20.

Healings, Casting out demons, miracles, all done as the spirit of
God dispenses them severally amongst men?

Notice, he still isn't showing a shred of Bible evidence that signs and wonders were intended to persist until Christ returns. 1 Corinthians 13 directly states where there are tongues they shall cease. The word cease
is in the middle voice meaning cease of themselves. While prophecy and knowledge are said to be made to cease by the coming of "the perfect",
tongues is not made to stop by the coming of the perfect. They just stop
by themselves. They had a predetermined purpose and when that purpose
was fulfilled, they ceased of themselves.

Here is what Jesus said in regards to the Pharisaical ones of his day. Those who claimed to follow the scriptures....

Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit

Mat 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.

Mat 12:23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Which proves Jesus cast out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit. I
never claimed He did not, or that He did it by the power of Satan. Thus,
you have no actual arguments from Scripture which show that signs and
wonders must persist until Jesus returns. You have your own straw-man
lies which YOU read into the conversation, and now pretend to refute.

Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy againstthe HolyGhost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

idem.

Those who do such things have no fear of God within them. And do not respect the word of God as given to men.

idem.

Now.... On to the subject that is in concert with all of the above. This is the next point of the preaching of Jesus in this chapter. Which addresses how one walks as a believer. Not rCLshould walkrCY but walks.

A Tree Is Known by Its Fruit

Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

And Jesus said...


rCLAn evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign...(Matthew 12:39, ESV)

Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

And again, there's nothing there which says that signs and wonders must continue until Christ returns. You've got NOTHING from Scripture that
supports your claims.

Obviously Jesus here was speaking to the Jewish Disbelievers of His day, those that were opposed to the works of the Father as done by Jesus via the baptism of the Holy Spirit when his ministry began. Yet the doctrine is applicable to those who follow him as describes those that say they do, but do not. As they do it not by their works. Blessed is the man who follows the path of the righteous who walks in the righteousness of God the Father.

idem.

Next onwards to the final point, of AI Rosie.

The Sign of Jonah

Mat 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them,An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

V 42 references the generation to who Jesus was speaking in V39 the other scriptures here point to the people who will stand up in judgment against those Jews, since they had the full raw truth presented to them, with power, showing that God was with him. What they had been given was far less, yet they believed.

Lastly, Jesus spoke about those who were set free, but then yielded back to the ways of the flesh and their ending was far worse than had they never been set free. Verses 43 - 46.

Now I will return to reading what he went on to say, and depending on what I read I may or may not reply.

Listen, you self-absorbed, sock-puppet troll. You act as if I care
whether or not you read or reply to my posts. I've been proclaiming the
saving gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) in here and sound Bible teaching
daily. Yet you never cease to try and poison people's minds against it
by association. You have shown by an endless pattern that you can't
tolerate the idea of truth being proclaimed in here by anyone but
yourself. This is exactly what the Jews did to the apostles out of
demonic envy, in Acts. Observe what the Bible teaches:

Envy is discernible, even to the unregenerate:

rCLFor he knew that it was out of envy that they had delivered him
up.rCY (Matthew 27:18, ESV)

Envy manifests itself by contradicting Bible truth and trying to poison people's minds against those who proclaim it:

rCLBut when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with
envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things
spoken by Paul.rCY (Acts 13:45, NKJV)

rCLBut the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned
their minds against the brothers.rCY (Acts 14:2, ESV)

Envy shows evidence of people who are operating under the influence of
demonic wisdom.

rCLBut if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do
not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not
descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where
envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are
there.rCY (James 3:14rCo16, NKJV)

Daily, I proclaim the same gospel in here that Paul said leads men to
saving faith in Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Daily, I post articles
which I know to be solidly based on the truth of the Bible. "Robert"
does not offer any convincing Bible evidence that the content I'm
posting in here is inconsistent with what the Bible teaches. Instead, he simply tries to poison people's minds against by association, that
teaching which he has been unable to refute from Scripture.

When someone devotes his life (as "Robert" has done) in an effort to
poison people's minds against what I know to be sound Bible teaching, he
is operating consistently with someone who is under the compulsion of
demonic wisdom envy (James 3:14-15).

https://christrose.news/demonic-wisdom

For those that do not know, I call this person AI Rosie. As they take the name of Christ in vain, and use it for their own purposes.

Liar. "Christ Rose" is the gospel according to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and
I proclaim the gospel. That's what I've stated all along, and it's in
the "About" on the website:

Why the name "Christ Rose"? The gospel is the power of God unto
salvation. It is that Christ died for our sins, and God raised
Him from the dead. The heart of the gospel is that Christ rose
from the dead. "Christ Rose", therefore, is the gospel in its
briefest form (christrose.news).

They she or he,

Says the guy who runs half a dozen sock-puppets to support his own idiot
posts in here every day.

are doing their best to not attach their name to what they say,

Says "Robert" (a.k.a "None", "Dr. Who", "Anonymous", "HTH", "ahisrwic", "Rock", "KK")

and use AI to
generate their rCycommentariesrCO they also have apparently seated themselves in the Christnews NG as if it was theirs, which it is not. I have yet to see any of their tens of thousands of followers post there, which they claimed to have when they first arrived on the scene.

You act just like the demonically inspired Jews who contradicted and
tried to poison people's minds against Paul out of envy:

rCLBut when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy
and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him.rCY
(Acts 13:45, ESV)

I had them KFrCOd due to malicious behaviors across all NGrCOs.

Says the troll who does almost nothing in here but try to poison
people's minds against everything that everyone else says, out of his
own demonically inspired envy.

Something
changed in their setup, I will fix that and put them into the bin after I read the rest of their post. SO I will not see their reply to this one.

Quit making sock-puppets and excuses for continuing to read my posts and continuing to try to poison people's minds against them, you demonic
envy boy.

As usually God will be the judge of them in the end. May God have mercy

on their

soul.

You've shown nothing from the Bible that proves your Charismatic lies or
that refutes anything which I've stated in here. Meanwhile, here's the Scripture which shows 10 convincing evidences that the sign gifts ceased during the lifetime of the apostles:

https://christrose.news/ceased

From my end I forgive them, and I know that if they have not committed the unpardonable that it is Gods will that they ask and receive forgiveness from Him first and foremost.

I never claimed Christ was casting out devils by the power of Satan, you twisted liar. You never showed from anything Christ said that signs and wonders would continue until He returns.

christrose.news. "About | Christ Rose". Christrose, 11 May. 2024, https://christrose.news/about. Accessed 30 September. 2025.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 12:51:23 -0700, Robert wrote:

On Sep 28, 2025, Christ Rose wrote (Message-ID:<edc10d62-9b01-4604-b40f-baf1f03a3663@christrose.news>):

I addressed the former so it was snipped out of this, I will address
this next section from the word of God, not my words but his.

What foolishness. That plays right into the hands of the evil one,
sowing seeds of doubt. Doubt that would cause confusion and further
weaken the weak as that gives credence to the power of Satan and
weakens the faith of babes.

idem.

Some foolish doubters even claim that the works of God disappeared
after the book of Galatians, and it was written before the books to
the Corinthian by several years, and it is in the books of
Corinthians where the gifts of the Holy Spirit are spoken of as well
as ministries. And Pau; went tp the Galatiams before his missionary
journey too the Corinthians and elsewhere as well.

idem.

1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to
speak with tongues.

When tongues were being spoken, they were not to be forbidden. That
says nothing at all which indicates tongues must continue until Christ
returns.

1 Corinthians 13 just said where there are tongues, they shall cease.

rCL...as for tongues, they will cease...rCY (1 Corinthians 13:8rCo10, ESV) >>
That's in the middle voice. It means they cease of themselves. Nothing
had to act on them to make them cease. By contrast, gifts like prophecy
are made to cease by the appearing of that which is perfect.

Just an example of the proof that their doctrines are wrong. That
they teach another Gospel.

idem. The Bible plainly states that where there are tongues, they shall
cease. That means they stop of themselves and are not made to stop by
the coming of that which is perfect.

******************************

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they
shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge,
it shall vanish away.

1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in
part shall be done away.

******************************
That which is perfect is to come, Speaks of the real Christ and his
return to the earth for the millennial rule. At which point these gifts
are no longer needed as he rules the earth directly for a time.

Until them all the Gifts of the Spirit of God are needed, an Paul
depended highly on them for the sake of a solid grounding for those that believed in Christ Jesus that their faith not be shaken and doubt rooted
out.

1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus
Christ, and him crucified.

1Co 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much
trembling.

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of
man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in
the power of God.

IOW not with commentaries, fancy words, and Paul was very highly
educated, but in the demonstration of the Holy Spirit and His Power.

The demonstrations of the power of the Holy Spirit confirmed the
teachings of those that taught and shared Jesus with others. So that the fisherman, as well as a tax man, and others of High education, when they taught of God, the power of the Holy Spirit was the same through all of
them.

1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them:
because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and
the world heareth them.

1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not
of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the
spirit of error.

Notice, when John explained how to discern the spirits to see who is a
child of God and who is a child of the devil, he didn't say a single
thing about whether or not someone believes sign gifts continue until
Christ returns.

Yet "Robert" cites his words as if it proved his point. Nothing in 1
John even hints at the idea that the child of God must believe sign
gifts continue, or that he must exercise those gifts or promote those
gifts.

1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that
we should love one another.

1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother.
And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his
brother's righteous.

1Jn 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we
love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Why limit the outward teaching and works of the spirit to one book?

Jesus said, as recorded by this same John, Jhn 14:12 Verily, verily, I
say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do
also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my
Father.

And as taught by Pau all the gifts of the spirit are for the body of
Christ to edify, uplift, them all in all the various facets of them.

So if you doubt it, then just say so. Of course you will not find any scripture that supports doubt and disbelief. Scripture clearly points
out that God will find no pleasure in those people. After all it is him
that one should strive to please.

Those in whom the Holy Spirit does not dwell is not of God.

And the fruit of the Spirit is:

rCLBut the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience,
kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control;
against such things there is no law.rCY (Galatians 5:22rCo23, ESV)

Notice, the evidence of the Spirit dwelling in believers today, is the
fruit of the Spirit, not signs and wonders. That ship already sailed
and fulfilled its purpose during the lifetime of the apostles (Hebrews
2:3-4).

Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at
the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by
them that heard him;

Heb 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and
with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own
will?

That verse is amazing. God also bearing the followers of Jesus a witness,
per V4 Stephen comes to mind and for those things he was stoned by the
Jews. His own people.

Total salvation encompasses all that Jesus has to offer us for a
complete picture, without limitations.

There is nothing in these scriptures that limits it to the 13 Apostles, especially as the office of Apostle is still in effect today.

1Co 11:1 Be imitators of me, exactly as I also am of Christ.

Now he tells the Corinthians to imitate him, just as he also copied
Christ. He renounced personal advantages and rights in order to help
those about him.

Yes, oh yes. No envy there, he wanted those who followed Jesus to imitate
him as he did Jesus. Plus, he wrote it down for all people that reads the scripture he wrote.

The Corinthians should do likewise, and not selfishly parade their
freedoms in such a way as to hinder the gospel of Christ or offend the
weak brother.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that
the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of
Christ, he is none of his.

idem. Notice that not a word of Scripture Robert cited says anything at
all about sign gifts. Yet he pretends it supports his carnal
Charismatic contradictions.

I would think that should mean something to you. Maybe he is not narrowly focused on it as you claim.

You are the one who squawks about such thing, as you insist on doubting
the will of God. To me as well as the authors in the NT, it was a part
of everyday life and is done according to the will and order of things
Godly and according to His purposes.

I share these things for the well being of those who desire to be of
Christ and strengthened by the spirit of God. Let the weak be strong
in the Lord.

rCLAn evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign...rCY (Matthew 16:4, >> ESV)

Mat 16:3 And in the morning, you say, 'Today it will storm, for the sky
is red and lowering.' Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of
the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times.

Mat 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, but no
sign shall be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet." Then He
left them and went away.

Are you able to discern the signs of the times?

Here are 10 Bible evidences that signs and wonders ceased during the
lifetime of the apostles:

The sign gifts like tongues, healings, and miracles are what ceased
after they confirmed the gospel, just as the Bible indicated they
would.

You were shown as the readers of this reply are, that they are still in effect according to scripture.
Not only that, but the evidences of the workings of God are going on
this very day, world wide. People still have needs that only Jesus can fulfill. The Blind to see, the deaf to hear, the mute that are enabled
to speak. The cripple straightened those bound with evil spirits set
free. Body parts restored, the Dead raised to life. The prayers of
believers for the restoration of their nations, etc.The outing of evil
ones in powerful places,
millions coming to the Lord for salvation, freedom from drugs and on and
on and on.

Amen!

God started his work in the churches. His judgments upon them, and while
that is still ongoing and not yet fully complete the Believers are
reaching out to those round about to save the Lost and deliver them from
the chains that bind them.

Oh, and I took the liberty to snip the balance of your doubt and
disbelief.

Good thing, he never shows scripture showing that the Gifts of the Spirit
are dead in the water, at least not for christians.

I pray that your heart be softened towards God, and that you would
receive Jesus into your heart, that you would be baptized by Jesus with
the Holy Spirit and fire according to the word of God. For at that time
you will find out that he loves you with a depth you have never known.

Let Jesus the Christ have the preeminence and humble yourself to him.
I will now put you into another and more secure KF.

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto
the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one
another, even as God for ChristrCOs sake hath forgiven you.

This came to mind after reading a couple of Rosies replies on this topic
today as well as the other replies. I don't know what side of the bed that person gets out of every morning, but they should slide that side of the
bed up against the wall forcing them to get out from the other side.
G.I.G.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.bible

========================================
Fri, 3 Oct 2025 01:02:35 -0000 (UTC)
<10bn7ba$1bgkm$1@dont-email.me>
"Robert" (a.k.a "None", "Dr. Who",
"Anonymous", "HTH", "ahisrwic", "Rock", "KK") wrote: ========================================

On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 12:51:23 -0700, Robert wrote:

Anyone (e.g. "Robert") who responds to his own posts as a sock puppet
(e.g. "KK") has already exposed himself as someone who intends to
deceive people.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Oct 2, 2025, KK wrote
(Message-ID: <10bn7ba$1bgkm$1@dont-email.me>):

On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 12:51:23 -0700, Robert wrote:

On Sep 28, 2025, Christ Rose wrote (Message-ID:<edc10d62-9b01-4604-b40f-baf1f03a3663@christrose.news>):

I addressed the former so it was snipped out of this, I will address
this next section from the word of God, not my words but his.

What foolishness. That plays right into the hands of the evil one, sowing seeds of doubt. Doubt that would cause confusion and further weaken the weak as that gives credence to the power of Satan and weakens the faith of babes.

idem.

Some foolish doubters even claim that the works of God disappeared after the book of Galatians, and it was written before the books to
the Corinthian by several years, and it is in the books of
Corinthians where the gifts of the Holy Spirit are spoken of as well
as ministries. And Pau; went tp the Galatiams before his missionary journey too the Corinthians and elsewhere as well.

idem.

1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

When tongues were being spoken, they were not to be forbidden. That
says nothing at all which indicates tongues must continue until Christ returns.

1 Corinthians 13 just said where there are tongues, they shall cease.

rCL...as for tongues, they will cease...rCY (1 Corinthians 13:8rCo10, ESV)

That's in the middle voice. It means they cease of themselves. Nothing had to act on them to make them cease. By contrast, gifts like prophecy are made to cease by the appearing of that which is perfect.

Just an example of the proof that their doctrines are wrong. That
they teach another Gospel.

idem. The Bible plainly states that where there are tongues, they shall cease. That means they stop of themselves and are not made to stop by
the coming of that which is perfect.

******************************

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they
shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge,
it shall vanish away.

1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

******************************
That which is perfect is to come, Speaks of the real Christ and his
return to the earth for the millennial rule. At which point these gifts
are no longer needed as he rules the earth directly for a time.

Until them all the Gifts of the Spirit of God are needed, an Paul
depended highly on them for the sake of a solid grounding for those that believed in Christ Jesus that their faith not be shaken and doubt rooted out.

1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1Co 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much
trembling.

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of
man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in
the power of God.

IOW not with commentaries, fancy words, and Paul was very highly
educated, but in the demonstration of the Holy Spirit and His Power.

The demonstrations of the power of the Holy Spirit confirmed the
teachings of those that taught and shared Jesus with others. So that the fisherman, as well as a tax man, and others of High education, when they taught of God, the power of the Holy Spirit was the same through all of them.

1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them:
because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Notice, when John explained how to discern the spirits to see who is a child of God and who is a child of the devil, he didn't say a single thing about whether or not someone believes sign gifts continue until Christ returns.

Yet "Robert" cites his words as if it proved his point. Nothing in 1
John even hints at the idea that the child of God must believe sign
gifts continue, or that he must exercise those gifts or promote those gifts.

1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that
we should love one another.

1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother.
And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

1Jn 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we
love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Why limit the outward teaching and works of the spirit to one book?

Jesus said, as recorded by this same John, Jhn 14:12 Verily, verily, I
say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

And as taught by Pau all the gifts of the spirit are for the body of
Christ to edify, uplift, them all in all the various facets of them.

So if you doubt it, then just say so. Of course you will not find any scripture that supports doubt and disbelief. Scripture clearly points
out that God will find no pleasure in those people. After all it is him that one should strive to please.

Those in whom the Holy Spirit does not dwell is not of God.

And the fruit of the Spirit is:

rCLBut the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience,
kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control;
against such things there is no law.rCY (Galatians 5:22rCo23, ESV)

Notice, the evidence of the Spirit dwelling in believers today, is the fruit of the Spirit, not signs and wonders. That ship already sailed
and fulfilled its purpose during the lifetime of the apostles (Hebrews 2:3-4).

Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at
the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by
them that heard him;

Heb 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

That verse is amazing. God also bearing the followers of Jesus a witness,
per V4 Stephen comes to mind and for those things he was stoned by the
Jews. His own people.

Yes, Indeed. God does not change, his will remains. As does His Love, and purpose.
Even in our daily lives, he remains with us and by his Spirit he supports us in all that we do.
For that reason he said,...

rCLAnd whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;rCY (Col 3:23)

Total salvation encompasses all that Jesus has to offer us for a
complete picture, without limitations.

There is nothing in these scriptures that limits it to the 13 Apostles, especially as the office of Apostle is still in effect today.

1Co 11:1 Be imitators of me, exactly as I also am of Christ.

Now he tells the Corinthians to imitate him, just as he also copied
Christ. He renounced personal advantages and rights in order to help
those about him.

Yes, oh yes. No envy there, he wanted those who followed Jesus to imitate
him as he did Jesus. Plus, he wrote it down for all people that reads the scripture he wrote.

The Corinthians should do likewise, and not selfishly parade their
freedoms in such a way as to hinder the gospel of Christ or offend the
weak brother.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

idem. Notice that not a word of Scripture Robert cited says anything at all about sign gifts. Yet he pretends it supports his carnal
Charismatic contradictions.

I would think that should mean something to you. Maybe he is not narrowly focused on it as you claim.

You are the one who squawks about such thing, as you insist on doubting
the will of God. To me as well as the authors in the NT, it was a part
of everyday life and is done according to the will and order of things Godly and according to His purposes.

I share these things for the well being of those who desire to be of Christ and strengthened by the spirit of God. Let the weak be strong
in the Lord.

rCLAn evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign...rCY (Matthew 16:4,
ESV)

Mat 16:3 And in the morning, you say, 'Today it will storm, for the sky
is red and lowering.' Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of
the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times.

Mat 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, but no
sign shall be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet." Then He left them and went away.

Are you able to discern the signs of the times?

Here are 10 Bible evidences that signs and wonders ceased during the lifetime of the apostles:

The sign gifts like tongues, healings, and miracles are what ceased
after they confirmed the gospel, just as the Bible indicated they
would.

You were shown as the readers of this reply are, that they are still in effect according to scripture.
Not only that, but the evidences of the workings of God are going on
this very day, world wide. People still have needs that only Jesus can fulfill. The Blind to see, the deaf to hear, the mute that are enabled
to speak. The cripple straightened those bound with evil spirits set
free. Body parts restored, the Dead raised to life. The prayers of believers for the restoration of their nations, etc.The outing of evil
ones in powerful places,
millions coming to the Lord for salvation, freedom from drugs and on and
on and on.

Amen!

Yes, and it is for sure that he does not desire that mankind be bound in or
to their sins/detriments like drugs, anger, bitterness and resentment. Fortunately there is a move of God taking shape around the world for the rCylast callrCO before the rapture of the believers.

God started his work in the churches. His judgments upon them, and while that is still ongoing and not yet fully complete the Believers are
reaching out to those round about to save the Lost and deliver them from the chains that bind them.

Oh, and I took the liberty to snip the balance of your doubt and
disbelief.

Good thing, he never shows scripture showing that the Gifts of the Spirit
are dead in the water, at least not for christians.

He/she has not a leg to stand on, except perhaps the leg of doubt and disbelief.

rCLBut when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and superseded).rCY (1Co 13:10)

At the time of the writing of the scripture there was already in existence, the Church of ekklesia, the Holy Spirit, and the word of God with signs and wonders. Some would try to deceive others in saying that the NT was not fully written yet, however, the word that we have is perfect only in spiritual concert with God who dwells within the heart of the believer. It is well
known that the translation from the original languages is not perfect which
is why we must understand in many cases what the original languages meant as well as their vernacular of that day.

On TOP of all that, the scriptures state that there is a book yet to be written and revealed that in itself would destroy that understanding, especially as it is written after the rapture.

Rev 10:7-11

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which
standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.

9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

This was prefaced by the truth which was written just before it.

Rev 10:1-6

1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his leftfoot on the earth,

3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which
the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Obviously there is still unrevealed prophesy that is yet to be revealed to man. We are given the insight of that within these scriptures.

The end result of which shows that all the scripture that is to be revealed has not yet been revealed.

V7 speaks to that for it says.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The end result of which shows that the bible as we have it, has a portion
that is not yet revealed, so there is no complete rCLcannonrCY as some would argue that construes something that is perfect, meaning complete.

Jesus during His ministry on earth said,...

Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted
worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand
before the Son of man.

Jesus did not say to pray once and be done, but to pray always. The why of that he spoke of in v34. As they get to busy in life, and so get caught up in it. This chapter is very prophetic.

I pray that your heart be softened towards God, and that you would
receive Jesus into your heart, that you would be baptized by Jesus with
the Holy Spirit and fire according to the word of God. For at that time
you will find out that he loves you with a depth you have never known.

Let Jesus the Christ have the preeminence and humble yourself to him.
I will now put you into another and more secure KF.

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one
another, even as God for ChristrCOs sake hath forgiven you.

This came to mind after reading a couple of Rosies replies on this topic today as well as the other replies. I don't know what side of the bed that person gets out of every morning, but they should slide that side of the
bed up against the wall forcing them to get out from the other side.
G.I.G.

That is surely something everyone should consider. Especially as Satan would try to take advantage of us, via ones fleshly thoughts. A great point!


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Fri, 03 Oct 2025 08:49:30 -0700
<10boraa$1to7k$1@dont-email.me>
"Robert" (a.k.a "None", "Dr. Who",
"Anonymous", "HTH", "ahisrwic", "Rock", "KK") wrote: ========================================

On Oct 2, 2025, KK wrote

"KK" is one of "Robert's" no-posting history sock-puppets. The moron
carries on conversations with himself, as if other are supporting his
views, thinking people will be too stupid to realize it's him. This
shows at the outset that his intent is to deceive people.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
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At Fri, 03 Oct 2025 08:49:30 -0700, None <none@none.non> wrote:

On Oct 2, 2025, KK wrote
(Message-ID: <10bn7ba$1bgkm$1@dont-email.me>):

Good thing, he never shows scripture showing that the Gifts of the
Spirit are dead in the water, at least not for christians.

He/she has not a leg to stand on, except perhaps the leg of doubt and disbelief.

|o-C-LBut when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and
superseded).|o-C-Y (1Co 13:10)

At the time of the writing of the scripture there was already in
existence, the Church of ekklesia, the Holy Spirit, and the word of
God with signs and wonders. Some would try to deceive others in
saying that the NT was not fully written yet, however, the word that
we have is perfect only in spiritual concert with God who dwells
within the heart of the believer. It is well known that the
translation from the original languages is not perfect which is why
we must understand in many cases what the original languages meant as
well as their vernacular of that day.

On TOP of all that, the scriptures state that there is a book yet to
be written and revealed that in itself would destroy that
understanding, especially as it is written after the rapture.

This just got interesting.

I'm not sure the following verses from Revelation support
that idea. Do you have some insight to share?

Also -- speaking of the construction of the Bible -- I've
read in MacGregor's _The Bible in the Making_ that this particular
apocalypse was added to the Canon with some controversy.

Why this particular apocalypse, and not any of the other number of them floating around at the time?

Rev 10:7-11

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall
begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath
declared to his servants the prophets.

8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and
said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the
angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.

9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little
book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make
thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up;
and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it,
my belly was bitter.

11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples,
and nations, and tongues, and kings.

This was prefaced by the truth which was written just before it.

Rev 10:1-6

1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with
a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were
the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right
foot upon the sea, and his leftfoot on the earth,

3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he
had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about
to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up
those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth
lifted up his hand to heaven,

6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven,
and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that
therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that
there should be time no longer:

Obviously there is still unrevealed prophesy that is yet to be
revealed to man. We are given the insight of that within these
scriptures.

The end result of which shows that all the scripture that is to be
revealed has not yet been revealed.

V7 speaks to that for it says.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he
shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he
hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The end result of which shows that the bible as we have it, has a
portion that is not yet revealed, so there is no complete |o-C-Lcannon|o-C-Y as
some would argue that construes something that is perfect, meaning
complete.

Jesus during His ministry on earth said,...

Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts
be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this
life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the
face of the whole earth.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be
accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass,
and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus did not say to pray once and be done, but to pray always. The
why of that he spoke of in v34. As they get to busy in life, and so
get caught up in it. This chapter is very prophetic.

--
-c System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090Ti 24G
OS: Linux 6.17.1 D: Mint 22.2 DE: Xfce 4.18
NVIDIA: 580.95.05 Mem: 258G
"I'm leaving my body to science fiction."
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Oct 7, 2025, Creon wrote
(Message-ID: <jNmFQ.62120$D_Tb.50139@fx47.iad>):

At Fri, 03 Oct 2025 08:49:30 -0700, None<none@none.non> wrote:

On Oct 2, 2025, KK wrote
(Message-ID: <10bn7ba$1bgkm$1@dont-email.me>):

Good thing, he never shows scripture showing that the Gifts of the
Spirit are dead in the water, at least not for christians.

He/she has not a leg to stand on, except perhaps the leg of doubt and disbelief.

|ore4+oBut when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and
superseded).|ore4 (1Co 13:10)

At the time of the writing of the scripture there was already in
existence, the Church of ekklesia, the Holy Spirit, and the word of
God with signs and wonders. Some would try to deceive others in
saying that the NT was not fully written yet, however, the word that
we have is perfect only in spiritual concert with God who dwells
within the heart of the believer. It is well known that the
translation from the original languages is not perfect which is why
we must understand in many cases what the original languages meant as
well as their vernacular of that day.

On TOP of all that, the scriptures state that there is a book yet to
be written and revealed that in itself would destroy that
understanding, especially as it is written after the rapture.

This just got interesting.

I'm not sure the following verses from Revelation support
that idea. Do you have some insight to share?

Perhaps. Given the understanding that the Great Tribulation that the Old Testament, and Jesus spoke of is limited to a seven year period, which is broken up into two time periods, of no one knows the day of its beginning but all will know of its ending. And in this time period the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord will occur which is written of in the OT. The events of that time are listed in the order of each event and some events work in concert with others occurring at the same time. Might sound a bit confusing but it is all written in the Book of the Revelation. This is a synopsis of sorts of
what is mentioned in the books of the OT.

And yes, it has to do with Rev 7-11. I hope the following will not be too lengthy, but there is a lost associated to these things one these things
being the snatching away the Body of Christ, the ekklesia, some call the Church. Not to be confused with Religions of Christianity, but those within such things who are Born Again Believers. This is commonly called The
Rapture. This is part of the background that leads up to the understanding of those verses.

Jesus said, in regards to the snatching away, to rCLWatch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.rCY (Luk 21:36). The full understanding of that is lengthy, the short understanding is referenced in the story of the 10 virgins waiting for the bridegroom, five will be taken and five left behind.

So it will be in the day that the Lord comes in the clouds to raise the dead in Christ, and those that are alive to be with Him forever. That is the day that also sudden destruction will fall on the face of this earth. Such a massive scale will have never been seen before.

When the dust settles, those that are left behind who said they were christians, but were in name only, will know they were left behind, and why. Their hearts full of woe, doom, and gloom regarding their future. As if all hope of salvation is lost. Many will just turn to a hatred and cursing of God pit of bitterness and resentment, which just goes to show them that they were playing the role all along but never knew him. Others will be begging and pleading that they not be lost to eternal damnation. For those people as well as all the non-believers who suddenly realize that the Word of God was
correct all along, that it was not some sort of religious game to be played. That things like water baptism never saved anyone. Then it is, during the Seventh Trumpet The book is revealed, and revealed to all who have the ears
to hear.

Why is it sweet to the mouth and bitter to the belly?

rCLFear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall castsomeof you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto
the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.rCY (Rev 2:10-11)

There in is what is sweet to the mouth, for salvation is still available, but to the belly it is bitter since one will have to believe to the bitter end, which is limited to ten days. But can happen sooner once imprisoned. Thus
they have to shed their blood and endure to the end, those that recant, such as Islam would have you do in order to spare ones life, also recant Jesus and the work he did for us.

There is no way at this time that this is all that is the book, or that the book even states that with certainty. Yet if is something that has been impressed upon me for years. And I have seen nothing to discredit it.

If it was a certainty I am sure many weasels would take it for granted and
say that they can life a life in complete sin, fulfilling the pleasures of their body counting on a rCLsecond chancerCY but there are major drawbacks to that type of thinking, One being that there will be a major world wide
nuclear war with the killing of millions at a minimum, Yes, even here in America, and should you survive that with all the issues of radiation affecting your health, the food products and on and on, plus the torturing of rCLchristiansrCY to get them to renounce their beliefs even if it is only for a ten day period, one would ne a fool to think they will have a chance to stand up for God until death, when at that time who is there left to support them spiritually of physically.

That is part of my understanding. Personally I would far rather follow the advice of Jesus to pray that I be counted worthy to escape all those things. Especially when it is a given that the 144,000 young men who are anointed by God to share his word to the people, especially focusing on the Jew will all be martyred during that time.

Also -- speaking of the construction of the Bible -- I've
read in MacGregor's _The Bible in the Making_ that this particular
apocalypse was added to the Canon with some controversy.

I have heard that too. But it is the only book in the bible that has a blessing and a curse associated with it. A blessing if read, and a curse for modifying or taking away from the book of Revelations. Any Church or religion that does so I would abandon like a plague for God is NOT with them.

Why this particular apocalypse, and not any of the other number of them floating around at the time?

Because this particular apocalypse will have a little over 3/5ths of the population of the world destroyed during that time period. During which time period that anti-christ will be revealed in the middle of it, and all those that take the mark of the beast will be, at the end of it, tossed into
eternal judgment as they sold their soul to Satan in order to buy and sell,
to live somewhat comfortably, yet they will be calling out for the mountains to collapse on them when all death is withheld for six months or so. At the end of it will be the battle of armageddon and then again another one 1.000 years later. Which will be the last war.

Rev 10:7-11

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall
begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath
declared to his servants the prophets.

8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and
said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the
angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.

9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little
book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make
thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up;
and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it,
my belly was bitter.

11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples,
and nations, and tongues, and kings.

This was prefaced by the truth which was written just before it.

Rev 10:1-6

1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with
a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were
the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right
foot upon the sea, and his leftfoot on the earth,

3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he
had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about
to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up
those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth
lifted up his hand to heaven,

6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven,
and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that
therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that
there should be time no longer:

Obviously there is still unrevealed prophesy that is yet to be
revealed to man. We are given the insight of that within these
scriptures.

The end result of which shows that all the scripture that is to be
revealed has not yet been revealed.

V7 speaks to that for it says.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he
shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he
hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The end result of which shows that the bible as we have it, has a
portion that is not yet revealed, so there is no complete |ore4+ocannon|ore4 as
some would argue that construes something that is perfect, meaning complete.

Jesus during His ministry on earth said,...

Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts
be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this
life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the
face of the whole earth.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be
accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass,
and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus did not say to pray once and be done, but to pray always. The
why of that he spoke of in v34. As they get to busy in life, and so
get caught up in it. This chapter is very prophetic.

--

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