• The reincarnation fraud

    From zebrabible@zebrabible@proton.me to alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Wed Sep 24 18:15:45 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    The reincarnation fraud.

    I recently came across an Internet video of children who claim they
    lived previous lives. There were a lot of examples. Most these
    children were very young around 3 to 6 years.

    One said he was a soldier in a war, and had a serious fascination with
    guns. Another said she lived in ancient Egypt, and could draw some
    Egyptian symbols. Another said he knew his name before, and when they
    went to a large graveyard, he ran right to that grave.

    They all named facts many of which could be substantiated. Did that
    not prove that reincarnation is a fact? It sure looks that way. Yet
    the Bible says no such thing.

    First of all, the Bible does not teach that we have a "soul" which is
    immortal and which can leave the body at death. Reincarnation is
    anchored to that belief.

    Gen 2:7 Adam "BECAME" a soul, wasn't given one. and Eze 18:4 says a
    soul can "DIE". Thus it can't be immortal. But doesn't the Bible say a
    person can be "born again"? Yes, but it doesn't mean that the person
    is born as a literal baby again, but rather in a spiritual way.

    So if reincarnation isn't real, where did those kids get that
    knowledge from?

    Satan and his demons can plant false memories in a person's brain.
    Those children above are proof of it. Of course in some lands he
    doesn't need to do that because they already believe in reincarnation,
    like Japan and China and anywhere Buddhism is practiced.

    As far as we know, there exists only 2 intelligent life forms: humans
    and spirit beings, like angels. But some angels are bad and extremely
    wicked. They pretend to be ghosts and such, to perpetuate that the
    dead humans can come back to haunt the living, something the Bible
    rejects.

    They control the entertainment industry and all other enterprises in
    the world. The Bible says he is the god of this world. (2 Cor 4:4)

    They make the churches believe that God tortures living beings forever
    in a literal fire. That makes God a sadist and a repugnant mental
    case. If humans did that to other humans, they would lock him away and
    throw away the key. Then are humans more righteous than God?

    Thus reincarnation is an attempt by Satan to overthrow the Bible, and
    make God out to be a liar. JW's are always trying to clear God's name
    of barbarism. And they will continue with that until God has no more
    enemies to accuse Him.

    Sincerely James
    "SPECIAL CAMPAIGN
    An End to War?uHow?
    The Bible explains that worldwide peace is possible and will soon be a
    reality.
    Learn More". See jw.org (9/24/2025)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From vjp2.at@vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com to alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Wed Sep 24 23:23:10 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    I don't believe in reincarnation.

    You are aware there are some Hasidic Jews who believe in Gilgul, or reincarnation? (Look it up) And some other Jews who further believe
    Melchizedek and Abraham were originally Zoroastrian? And some daVinci code Cathars who argue Paul's Born Again means reincarnation? I feel toll houses
    and purgatory are merely syncretism of reincarnation. The migration of
    gypsies from India brought many such ideas into both Judaism and
    Christianity. The parallel in the other direction is the Sikhs.

    I believe linear eschatology focuses on human progress, while circular eschatology focuses on nature (ie environment) because, well, hypothetically, you could come back as a worm.
    --
    Vasos Panagiotopoulos panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
    ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Christ Rose@usenet@christrose.news to alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Wed Sep 24 19:56:34 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    Denying Christ is God is an attempt by Satan to overthrow the Bible, and
    make God out to be a liar. JW's are always trying to deny Christ is God.
    --
    Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
    raised Him from the dead?

    That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
    satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
    2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
    sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

    On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
    the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
    of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

    https://christrose.news/salvation

    To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
    images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

    https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Samuel Spade@sam@spade.invalid to alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Wed Sep 24 22:06:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    zebrabible@proton.me wrote:

    The reincarnation fraud.

    I recently came across an Internet video of children who claim they
    lived previous lives. There were a lot of examples. Most these
    children were very young around 3 to 6 years.

    One said he was a soldier in a war, and had a serious fascination with
    guns. Another said she lived in ancient Egypt, and could draw some
    Egyptian symbols. Another said he knew his name before, and when they
    went to a large graveyard, he ran right to that grave.

    They all named facts many of which could be substantiated. Did that
    not prove that reincarnation is a fact? It sure looks that way. Yet
    the Bible says no such thing.


    Yes. Many Bible stories are set at locations that actually exist, and
    some cite people who are historically verified. This proves the Bible
    is inerrant, according to None's theology. If you harbor any doubt,
    just ask him.

    Similarly, from what you said, the children's stories are thereby proven correct.


    First of all, the Bible does not teach that we have a "soul" which is immortal and which can leave the body at death. Reincarnation is
    anchored to that belief.

    Gen 2:7 Adam "BECAME" a soul, wasn't given one. and Eze 18:4 says a
    soul can "DIE". Thus it can't be immortal. But doesn't the Bible say a
    person can be "born again"? Yes, but it doesn't mean that the person
    is born as a literal baby again, but rather in a spiritual way.

    So if reincarnation isn't real, where did those kids get that
    knowledge from?

    Satan and his demons can plant false memories in a person's brain.
    Those children above are proof of it. Of course in some lands he
    doesn't need to do that because they already believe in reincarnation,
    like Japan and China and anywhere Buddhism is practiced.

    As far as we know, there exists only 2 intelligent life forms: humans
    and spirit beings, like angels. But some angels are bad and extremely
    wicked. They pretend to be ghosts and such, to perpetuate that the
    dead humans can come back to haunt the living, something the Bible
    rejects.

    They control the entertainment industry and all other enterprises in
    the world. The Bible says he is the god of this world. (2 Cor 4:4)


    Ahah! So when you talk about these Extremely Wicked Angels of
    entertainment and enterprises, you mean, of course, The Jews.
    Some of these Jews may exist as spirit beings.


    Thus reincarnation is an attempt by Satan to overthrow the Bible, and
    make God out to be a liar. JW's are always trying to clear God's name
    of barbarism. And they will continue with that until God has no more
    enemies to accuse Him.


    So Extremely Wicked Jews are trying to overthrow the Bible. It's all
    coming together now!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zebrabible@zebrabible@proton.me to alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Thu Sep 25 18:59:09 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    On Wed, 24 Sep 2025 19:56:34 -0500, Christ Rose
    <usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

    Denying Christ is God is an attempt by Satan to overthrow the Bible, and
    make God out to be a liar. JW's are always trying to deny Christ is God.

    Of course they do, because the BIBLE doesn't teach that. Col 1:15,

    -- King James
    Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn
    of every creature.

    Look at the CONTEXT. It is things created. And Jesus was the first.

    As for making God a liar, MOST Bibles do that at:

    -- New King James
    Exodus 6:3 "I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God
    Almighty, but by My name, Lord, I was not known to them.

    LORD IS A TITLE, NOT A NAME. THEY JUST CALLED GOD A LIAR. Here is how
    it should read.

    -- American Standard
    Exodus 6:3 and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob,
    as God Almighty; but by my name Jehovah I was not known to them.

    Even the ESV translation says "Lord" at Ex 6:3. So it's not that
    accurate either.

    Sincerely James
    "SPECIAL CAMPAIGN
    Finding Peace Despite War and Violent Conflict
    The Bible is helping those affected by war in practical ways now.
    See How". See jw.org (9/25/2025)








    --
    Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (a), and God
    raised Him from the dead?

    That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death >penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
    satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John >2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your >sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

    On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
    the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
    of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

    https://christrose.news/salvation

    To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
    images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like >Thunderbird:

    https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zebrabible@zebrabible@proton.me to alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Thu Sep 25 19:22:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    On Wed, 24 Sep 2025 22:06:03 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid>
    wrote:

    zebrabible@proton.me wrote:

    The reincarnation fraud.

    I recently came across an Internet video of children who claim they
    lived previous lives. There were a lot of examples. Most these
    children were very young around 3 to 6 years.

    One said he was a soldier in a war, and had a serious fascination with
    guns. Another said she lived in ancient Egypt, and could draw some
    Egyptian symbols. Another said he knew his name before, and when they
    went to a large graveyard, he ran right to that grave.

    They all named facts many of which could be substantiated. Did that
    not prove that reincarnation is a fact? It sure looks that way. Yet
    the Bible says no such thing.


    Yes. Many Bible stories are set at locations that actually exist, and
    some cite people who are historically verified. This proves the Bible
    is inerrant, according to None's theology. If you harbor any doubt,
    just ask him.

    Similarly, from what you said, the children's stories are thereby proven >correct.


    First of all, the Bible does not teach that we have a "soul" which is
    immortal and which can leave the body at death. Reincarnation is
    anchored to that belief.

    Gen 2:7 Adam "BECAME" a soul, wasn't given one. and Eze 18:4 says a
    soul can "DIE". Thus it can't be immortal. But doesn't the Bible say a
    person can be "born again"? Yes, but it doesn't mean that the person
    is born as a literal baby again, but rather in a spiritual way.

    So if reincarnation isn't real, where did those kids get that
    knowledge from?

    Satan and his demons can plant false memories in a person's brain.
    Those children above are proof of it. Of course in some lands he
    doesn't need to do that because they already believe in reincarnation,
    like Japan and China and anywhere Buddhism is practiced.

    As far as we know, there exists only 2 intelligent life forms: humans
    and spirit beings, like angels. But some angels are bad and extremely
    wicked. They pretend to be ghosts and such, to perpetuate that the
    dead humans can come back to haunt the living, something the Bible
    rejects.

    They control the entertainment industry and all other enterprises in
    the world. The Bible says he is the god of this world. (2 Cor 4:4)


    Ahah! So when you talk about these Extremely Wicked Angels of
    entertainment and enterprises, you mean, of course, The Jews.
    Some of these Jews may exist as spirit beings.

    Spirit beings have no nationality. The wicked ones lived in Heaven,
    before tossed to the earth. So as Paul said,

    -- New King James
    Ephesians 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but
    against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the
    darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the
    heavenly places.





    Thus reincarnation is an attempt by Satan to overthrow the Bible, and
    make God out to be a liar. JW's are always trying to clear God's name
    of barbarism. And they will continue with that until God has no more
    enemies to accuse Him.


    So Extremely Wicked Jews are trying to overthrow the Bible. It's all
    coming together now!

    See above about the nationality of angels.

    And, if you are a Christian, Paul said you are one of these:

    28. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that
    circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
    29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that
    of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is
    not of men, but of God.

    Sincerely James
    "SPECIAL CAMPAIGN
    Finding Peace Despite War and Violent Conflict
    The Bible is helping those affected by war in practical ways now.
    See How". See jw.org (9/25/2025)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Christ Rose@usenet@christrose.news to alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Thu Sep 25 19:24:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    Colossians 1:15 is not saying Christ was the first created being. PaulrCOs point is about rank, not origin. The Greek word *pr+itotokos* (rCLfirstbornrCY) does not mean rCLfirst createdrCY (*pr+itoktistos* would mean
    that), but rather refers to supremacy, preeminence, or heirship.
    Scripture itself shows this distinction.

    For example:

    * Psalm 89:27, God says of David: rCLI will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth.rCY David was not born first chronologicallyrCohe was the youngest son of Jesse (1 Samuel 16:11)rCobut
    God gave him supremacy as king.

    So in Colossians 1, Paul is declaring ChristrCOs supremacy and rightful ownership over creation. The very next verses explain it:

    rCLFor by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authoritiesrCoall
    things were created through him and for him. And he is before all
    things, and in him all things hold togetherrCY (Colossians 1:16rCo17, ESV).

    If Christ created *all things*, then He cannot be part of the created
    order. Paul even stresses rCLin heaven and on earth, visible and
    invisible,rCY which leaves nothing outside His creative work.

    As for Exodus 6:3, it does not show God as a liar. God had indeed
    revealed Himself to the patriarchs as rCLYahwehrCY (*Jehovah*), since the
    name appears throughout Genesis (e.g., Genesis 15:7). What Exodus 6:3
    means is that the patriarchs had not yet experienced the *full covenant significance* of GodrCOs name YahwehrCothe One who brings His promises to completion. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob knew the name, but they had not
    seen its fulfillment in redeeming Israel out of Egypt. That fuller
    revelation came in the Exodus.

    So neither Colossians 1 nor Exodus 6 supports the claim that Christ is a created being, or that Scripture makes God out to be a liar. Both
    passages magnify GodrCOs truthfulness and ChristrCOs eternal supremacy.
    --
    Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
    raised Him from the dead?

    That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
    satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
    2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
    sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

    On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
    the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
    of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

    https://christrose.news/salvation

    To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
    images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

    https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Samuel Spade@sam@spade.invalid to alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Fri Sep 26 10:42:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    zebrabible@proton.me wrote:
    On Wed, 24 Sep 2025 22:06:03 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid>
    wrote:

    zebrabible@proton.me wrote:

    The reincarnation fraud.

    I recently came across an Internet video of children who claim they
    lived previous lives. There were a lot of examples. Most these
    children were very young around 3 to 6 years.

    One said he was a soldier in a war, and had a serious fascination with
    guns. Another said she lived in ancient Egypt, and could draw some
    Egyptian symbols. Another said he knew his name before, and when they
    went to a large graveyard, he ran right to that grave.

    They all named facts many of which could be substantiated. Did that
    not prove that reincarnation is a fact? It sure looks that way. Yet
    the Bible says no such thing.


    Yes. Many Bible stories are set at locations that actually exist, and
    some cite people who are historically verified. This proves the Bible
    is inerrant, according to None's theology. If you harbor any doubt,
    just ask him.

    Similarly, from what you said, the children's stories are thereby proven >correct.


    First of all, the Bible does not teach that we have a "soul" which is
    immortal and which can leave the body at death. Reincarnation is
    anchored to that belief.

    Gen 2:7 Adam "BECAME" a soul, wasn't given one. and Eze 18:4 says a
    soul can "DIE". Thus it can't be immortal. But doesn't the Bible say a
    person can be "born again"? Yes, but it doesn't mean that the person
    is born as a literal baby again, but rather in a spiritual way.

    So if reincarnation isn't real, where did those kids get that
    knowledge from?

    Satan and his demons can plant false memories in a person's brain.
    Those children above are proof of it. Of course in some lands he
    doesn't need to do that because they already believe in reincarnation,
    like Japan and China and anywhere Buddhism is practiced.

    As far as we know, there exists only 2 intelligent life forms: humans
    and spirit beings, like angels. But some angels are bad and extremely
    wicked. They pretend to be ghosts and such, to perpetuate that the
    dead humans can come back to haunt the living, something the Bible
    rejects.

    They control the entertainment industry and all other enterprises in
    the world. The Bible says he is the god of this world. (2 Cor 4:4)


    Ahah! So when you talk about these Extremely Wicked Angels of >entertainment and enterprises, you mean, of course, The Jews.
    Some of these Jews may exist as spirit beings.

    Spirit beings have no nationality.


    Being Jewish is a religion, or an ethnicity, but it's not a nationality.
    But a spirit can be Jewish, especially if they were that in real life
    before being demoted to the spirit world.

    I don't think it's fair to single out Jewish people as being angels of
    the entertainment and business industries, and certainly not fair to
    call them Extremely Wicked. Lots of gentiles are involved in both of
    those fields too, angelic or flesh.


    The wicked ones lived in Heaven,
    before tossed to the earth. So as Paul said,


    How can you toss a spirit being? Spirits don't have a location in space
    and time, they are immaterial.





    -- New King James
    Ephesians 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but
    against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the
    darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the
    heavenly places.



    Thus reincarnation is an attempt by Satan to overthrow the Bible, and
    make God out to be a liar. JW's are always trying to clear God's name
    of barbarism. And they will continue with that until God has no more
    enemies to accuse Him.


    So Extremely Wicked Jews are trying to overthrow the Bible. It's all >coming together now!

    See above about the nationality of angels.

    And, if you are a Christian, Paul said you are one of these:

    28. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
    29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that
    of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is
    not of men, but of God.

    Sincerely James
    "SPECIAL CAMPAIGN
    Finding Peace Despite War and Violent Conflict
    The Bible is helping those affected by war in practical ways now.
    See How". See jw.org (9/25/2025)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zebrabible@zebrabible@proton.me to alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Fri Sep 26 22:02:37 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 10:42:16 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid>
    wrote:

    zebrabible@proton.me wrote:
    On Wed, 24 Sep 2025 22:06:03 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid>
    wrote:

    zebrabible@proton.me wrote:

    The reincarnation fraud.

    I recently came across an Internet video of children who claim they
    lived previous lives. There were a lot of examples. Most these
    children were very young around 3 to 6 years.

    One said he was a soldier in a war, and had a serious fascination with
    guns. Another said she lived in ancient Egypt, and could draw some
    Egyptian symbols. Another said he knew his name before, and when they
    went to a large graveyard, he ran right to that grave.

    They all named facts many of which could be substantiated. Did that
    not prove that reincarnation is a fact? It sure looks that way. Yet
    the Bible says no such thing.


    Yes. Many Bible stories are set at locations that actually exist, and
    some cite people who are historically verified. This proves the Bible
    is inerrant, according to None's theology. If you harbor any doubt,
    just ask him.

    Similarly, from what you said, the children's stories are thereby proven
    correct.


    First of all, the Bible does not teach that we have a "soul" which is
    immortal and which can leave the body at death. Reincarnation is
    anchored to that belief.

    Gen 2:7 Adam "BECAME" a soul, wasn't given one. and Eze 18:4 says a
    soul can "DIE". Thus it can't be immortal. But doesn't the Bible say a
    person can be "born again"? Yes, but it doesn't mean that the person
    is born as a literal baby again, but rather in a spiritual way.

    So if reincarnation isn't real, where did those kids get that
    knowledge from?

    Satan and his demons can plant false memories in a person's brain.
    Those children above are proof of it. Of course in some lands he
    doesn't need to do that because they already believe in reincarnation,
    like Japan and China and anywhere Buddhism is practiced.

    As far as we know, there exists only 2 intelligent life forms: humans
    and spirit beings, like angels. But some angels are bad and extremely
    wicked. They pretend to be ghosts and such, to perpetuate that the
    dead humans can come back to haunt the living, something the Bible
    rejects.

    They control the entertainment industry and all other enterprises in
    the world. The Bible says he is the god of this world. (2 Cor 4:4)


    Ahah! So when you talk about these Extremely Wicked Angels of
    entertainment and enterprises, you mean, of course, The Jews.
    Some of these Jews may exist as spirit beings.

    Spirit beings have no nationality.


    Being Jewish is a religion, or an ethnicity, but it's not a nationality.
    But a spirit can be Jewish, especially if they were that in real life
    before being demoted to the spirit world.

    I don't think it's fair to single out Jewish people as being angels of
    the entertainment and business industries, and certainly not fair to
    call them Extremely Wicked. Lots of gentiles are involved in both of
    those fields too, angelic or flesh.


    The wicked ones lived in Heaven,
    before tossed to the earth. So as Paul said,


    How can you toss a spirit being? Spirits don't have a location in space
    and time, they are immaterial.

    It takes a spirit being to toss a spirit being; namely God.

    Sincerely James
    "SPECIAL CAMPAIGN
    Finding Peace Despite War and Violent Conflict
    The Bible is helping those affected by war in practical ways now.
    See How". See jw.org (9/26/2025)







    -- New King James
    Ephesians 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but
    against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the
    darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the
    heavenly places.



    Thus reincarnation is an attempt by Satan to overthrow the Bible, and
    make God out to be a liar. JW's are always trying to clear God's name
    of barbarism. And they will continue with that until God has no more
    enemies to accuse Him.


    So Extremely Wicked Jews are trying to overthrow the Bible. It's all
    coming together now!

    See above about the nationality of angels.

    And, if you are a Christian, Paul said you are one of these:

    28. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that
    circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
    29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that
    of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is
    not of men, but of God.

    Sincerely James
    "SPECIAL CAMPAIGN
    Finding Peace Despite War and Violent Conflict
    The Bible is helping those affected by war in practical ways now.
    See How". See jw.org (9/25/2025)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Samuel Spade@sam@spade.invalid to alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Sat Sep 27 01:34:54 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    zebrabible@proton.me wrote:
    On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 10:42:16 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid>
    wrote:

    zebrabible@proton.me wrote:
    On Wed, 24 Sep 2025 22:06:03 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid>
    wrote:

    zebrabible@proton.me wrote:

    As far as we know, there exists only 2 intelligent life forms: humans >> >> and spirit beings, like angels. But some angels are bad and extremely >> >> wicked. They pretend to be ghosts and such, to perpetuate that the
    dead humans can come back to haunt the living, something the Bible
    rejects.

    They control the entertainment industry and all other enterprises in
    the world. The Bible says he is the god of this world. (2 Cor 4:4)


    Ahah! So when you talk about these Extremely Wicked Angels of
    entertainment and enterprises, you mean, of course, The Jews.
    Some of these Jews may exist as spirit beings.

    Spirit beings have no nationality.


    Being Jewish is a religion, or an ethnicity, but it's not a nationality. >But a spirit can be Jewish, especially if they were that in real life >before being demoted to the spirit world.

    I don't think it's fair to single out Jewish people as being angels of
    the entertainment and business industries, and certainly not fair to
    call them Extremely Wicked. Lots of gentiles are involved in both of
    those fields too, angelic or flesh.

    You don't need to clarify your inference that Extremely Wicked Angels
    are Jewish?

    Don't you think that's a bit antisemitic?


    The wicked ones lived in Heaven,
    before tossed to the earth. So as Paul said,


    How can you toss a spirit being? Spirits don't have a location in space >and time, they are immaterial.

    It takes a spirit being to toss a spirit being; namely God.

    You mean spirit beings can "toss" each other? So you think they
    experience force and motion the same as we material beings do?

    Is the spirit world just a parallel material world? What's different
    about it?

    Serious question. I'll be impressed if you actually try to answer.
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  • From James to alt.christnet.christnews,alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Sun Sep 28 14:00:08 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 19:24:17 -0500, Christ Rose
    <usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

    Colossians 1:15 is not saying Christ was the first created being. PaulAs >point is about rank, not origin. The Greek word *pr?totokos*
    (ofirstborno) does not mean ofirst createdo (*pr?toktistos* would mean >that), but rather refers to supremacy, preeminence, or heirship.
    Scripture itself shows this distinction.

    For example:

    * Psalm 89:27, God says of David: oI will make him the firstborn, the >highest of the kings of the earth.o David was not born first >chronologicallyuhe was the youngest son of Jesse (1 Samuel 16:11)ubut
    God gave him supremacy as king.

    Again, look at Strong:

    "Strong's Ref. # 4416

    Romanized prototokos
    Pronounced pro-tot-ok'-os

    from GSN4413 and the alternate of GSN5088; first-born (usually as
    noun, literally or figuratively):

    KJV--firstbegotten(-born)."


    So in Colossians 1, Paul is declaring ChristAs supremacy and rightful >ownership over creation. The very next verses explain it:

    oFor by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and >invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authoritiesuall
    things were created through him and for him. And he is before all
    things, and in him all things hold togethero (Colossians 1:16u17, ESV).

    If Christ created *all things*, then He cannot be part of the created
    order. Paul even stresses oin heaven and on earth, visible and
    invisible,o which leaves nothing outside His creative work.

    Yet the context of Col 1:15 talks about things "created".
    And Jesus was the beginning of God's creating.

    As for Exodus 6:3, it does not show God as a liar. God had indeed
    revealed Himself to the patriarchs as oYahweho (*Jehovah*), since the
    name appears throughout Genesis (e.g., Genesis 15:7).

    Notice, I said that TRANSLATIONS make out like God is lying. HIS NAME
    IS NOT "LORD", that is a title given to him as well as others. But it
    is NOT a NAME. Just look up Col 1:15 in you ESV Bible.



    What Exodus 6:3
    means is that the patriarchs had not yet experienced the *full covenant >significance* of GodAs name Yahwehuthe One who brings His promises to >completion. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob knew the name, but they had not
    seen its fulfillment in redeeming Israel out of Egypt. That fuller >revelation came in the Exodus.

    So neither Colossians 1 nor Exodus 6 supports the claim that Christ is a >created being, or that Scripture makes God out to be a liar. Both
    passages magnify GodAs truthfulness and ChristAs eternal supremacy.

    Genuine Scripture does NOT call God a liar. But many translators did,
    such as the ESV.

    Sincerely James
    "SPECIAL CAMPAIGN
    Finding Peace Despite War and Violent Conflict
    The Bible is helping those affected by war in practical ways now.
    See How". See jw.org (9/28/2025)
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  • From Christ Rose@usenet@christrose.news to alt.christnet.christnews,alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Thu Oct 2 10:20:56 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    Colossians 1:15rCo17 answers the claim directly. You quoted StrongrCOs definition of prototokos as rCLfirstbornrCY and then assumed that must mean Christ was the first created being. But that ignores both (1) the fuller lexical range and (2) the immediate context.

    StrongrCOs gives the root gloss rCLfirstborn,rCY but it does not determine how the word functions in a given passage. Scripture itself interprets rCLfirstbornrCY as a title of rank or supremacy, not merely birth order.
    Psalm 89:27 makes this plain: rCLI will make him the firstborn, the
    highest of the kings of the earth.rCY David was the youngest of JesserCOs
    sons (1 Samuel 16:11), yet God calls him rCLfirstbornrCY because He gave him supremacy. StrongrCOs even admits the word is used rCLliterally or figuratively.rCY Colossians 1 is one of those figurative
    contextsrCosupremacy over creation.

    And Paul explains his own meaning in the very next verses:

    rCLFor by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth,
    visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or
    authoritiesrCoall things were created through him and for him. And
    he is before all things, and in him all things hold togetherrCY
    (Colossians 1:16rCo17, ESV).

    Notice carefully:

    1. rCLBy him all things were created.rCY

    If Christ were part of creation, Paul would have to say rCLall other things.rCY But he does not. He includes everythingrCorCLin heaven and on earth, visible and invisible.rCY Nothing is left out. Even "Jehovah's Witnesses" understand this, which is why they felt it necessary to
    fabricate the NWT to repeatedly insert the word "other" into Colossians
    1, where it does not occur, and (unlike most translations) where
    inserting the word makes it mean the perfect opposite of what it plainly states without the addition of the word.

    2. rCLHe is before all things.rCY That shows His eternal pre-existence, not creatureliness.

    3. rCLIn him all things hold together.rCY The universe continues to exist by His sustaining powerrCosomething only God Himself does.

    If prototokos meant rCLthe first created being,rCY Paul would have contradicted himself in the very next sentence by saying Christ created
    *all things*. Instead, prototokos refers to ChristrCOs supremacy, His heirship, His rank over all creation. Scripture confirms this meaning by
    how it uses the word elsewhere, not by a bare gloss.

    Exodus 6:3 likewise does not imply God lied. The patriarchs knew the
    name Yahweh, as Genesis shows, but they had not yet experienced its
    covenant fulfillment in redemption from Egypt. To render Yahweh as LORD
    is not calling God a liar, but following the ancient Jewish practice of reading Adonai aloud in place of the divine name.

    Far from supporting the idea that Christ is created, both Colossians 1
    and Exodus 6 affirm GodrCOs truthfulness and ChristrCOs eternal supremacy.
    --
    Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
    raised Him from the dead?

    That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
    satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
    2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
    sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

    On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
    the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
    of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

    https://christrose.news/salvation

    To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
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