From Newsgroup: alt.bible
========================================
Sun, 21 Sep 2025 20:28:42 -0700
<10aqfpa$24gvk$
1@dont-email.me>
"Robert" (a.k.a "None", "Dr. Who",
"Anonymous", "HTH", "ahisrwic", "Rock", "KK") wrote: ========================================
That is scriptural truth. And that person is Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God.
Yet he claimed there will be many false Christs to come. And there has been several who have claimed to be him and positioned themselves to be known as him in these NG|ore4raos. They all were filled with pride, never humble like Jesus is and was.
Show a reference to someone in these newsgroups who claimed or
positioned himself to be known as Christ. Include the message ID. You
won't.
Meanwhile, here is what has I have been publishing all along about the
name "Christ Rose":
Why the name "Christ Rose"?
The gospel is the power of God unto salvation. It is that Christ
died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead. The heart
of the gospel is that Christ rose from the dead. "Christ Rose",
therefore, is the gospel in its briefest form ("About | Christ
Rose").
I've never claimed to be Christ, but simply to publish the good news
that Christ Rose, which is the gospel. "Robert" is a twisted,
false-accusing liar if he's trying to conflate his accusations with what
I've been doing.
One of them stated that they had 1,000|ore4raos of followers, then quickly changed that to tens of thousands. Yet there was no evidence of that within these groups on the Usenet.
You show your own envy right there:
rCLBut when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy
and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him.rCY
(Acts 13:45, ESV)
Envy is discernible, even to the unregenerate:
rCLFor he knew that it was out of envy that they had delivered him
up.rCY (Matthew 27:18, ESV)
Envy manifests itself by contradicting Bible truth and trying to poison people's minds against those who proclaim it:
rCLBut when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with
envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things
spoken by Paul.rCY (Acts 13:45, NKJV)
rCLBut the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned
their minds against the brothers.rCY (Acts 14:2, ESV)
Envy shows evidence of people who are operating under the influence of
demonic wisdom.
rCLBut if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do
not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not
descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where
envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are
there.rCY (James 3:14rCo16, NKJV)
Daily, I proclaim the same gospel in here that Paul said leads men to
saving faith in Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Daily, I post articles
which I know to be solidly based on the truth of the Bible. "Robert"
does not offer any convincing Bible evidence that the content I'm
posting in here is inconsistent with what the Bible teaches. Instead, he simply tries to poison people's minds against by association, that
teaching which he has been unable to refute from Scripture.
When someone devotes his life (as "Robert" has done) in an effort to
poison people's minds against what I know to be sound Bible teaching, he
is operating consistently with someone who is under the compulsion of
demonic wisdom envy (James 3:14-15).
https://christrose.news/demonic-wisdom
Each described and spoke of others as envious.
rCLBut when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy
and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him.rCY
(Acts 13:45, ESV)
Your long-term patterns expose your envy, as you show again right here.
Even to using the description by Jesus as he spoke about the false priests of his days using traditions and the musings of men to establish their dogmas.
Show your reference with message ID.
Their hearts were far from God and his spirit was not in them. Yet they knew it not. The hated the teachings of Christ, his reminding them of what the scriptures actually said, but what they meant. They hated the gifts of God in operation and openly spoke against them, the same thing that occurs today with many false Christs. Here is the short story of Christ speaking of those who were envious of Him. And DO remember there is only ONE Christ and that is Jesus the Christ/Messiah.
That the sign gifts like tongues, healings, and miracles ceased after
they confirmed the gospel, seems evident from the following considerations:
1) The Bible plainly states that gifts like tongues would cease
of themselves (1 Corinthians 13:8):
rCLLove never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for
tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.
For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the
perfect comes, the partial will pass away.rCY (1 Corinthians
13:8rCo10, ESV)
The Bible clearly indicates that tongues "will cease". This
action is in the middle voice. When the middle voice is used,
it means the subject is acting on itself. This shows that in
contrast to prophecies and knowledge which will be made to
cease, tongues will cease of themselves. They had a built-in
time limit. They will not have to be made to cease by the
arrival of "the perfect". If you hold that "the perfect" is the
coming of Christ (as "Robert" does), that means tongues would
cease of themselves before He returns.
By contrast, prophecies and knowledge will "pass away". This is
in the passive voice. That means they will be made to cease by
the arrival of "the perfect". When "the perfect" comes, then
prophecies and knowledge will be made to pass away. "Robert"
holds that "the perfect" refers to the coming of Christ. If so,
then prophecy and knowledge are the only two gifts which the
Bible says the coming of Christ causes to cease. The Bible
nowhere teaches that any other sign gift must remain until "the
perfect" comes.
The Bible nowhere teaches or indicates gifts like tongues,
miracles, and healings, must remain in effect until Christ
returns. There is no future tense in the Greek, which
necessitates perpetual, ongoing action. Citing a verse where
Jesus predicts people would do signs and wonders (e.g. Matthew
24:24; Mark 13:22), doesn't necessitate they had to "keep on
happening" till Christ returns. It just meant there had to be a
time when they would occur, after Christ predicted it. That
already happened (Hebrews 2:3-4).
2) The purpose of the sign gifts has already been fulfilled
The Bible makes it clear that the original purpose of the sign
giftsrCosuch as tongues, healing, and miraclesrCowas not to
entertain, excite, or even to spiritually nourish the believer,
but to *confirm* GodrCOs message to unbelievers, particularly
Israel. This purpose goes all the way back to Isaiah 28:11rCo12,
where God said,
rCLFor by people of strange lips and with a foreign tongue the LORD
will speak to this people, to whom he has said, rCyThis is rest;
give rest to the wearyrCO; and yet they would not hearrCY (Isaiah
28:11rCo12, ESV).
Paul quotes this in 1 Corinthians 14:21 to show that the gift of
tongues served as a sign of judgment against unbelieving
IsraelrCoa foreign tongue declaring God's word to them because
they rejected the clear message given in their own.
Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14:22,
rCLThus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers,
while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believersrCY
(1 Corinthians 14:22, ESV).
So tongues were never meant to edify believers as much as they
were meant to shock and confront unbelievers, particularly
Israel, showing that God had moved beyond them to include
Gentiles in His redemptive plan.
Hebrews 2:3rCo4 also tells us why signs and wonders were given:
rCLIt was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us
by those who heard, while God also bore witness by signs and
wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit
distributed according to his willrCY (Hebrews 2:3rCo4, ESV).
The signs were GodrCOs testimonyrCoa divine stamp of approval to
validate the new message of salvation through Jesus Christ,
especially as it was being preached for the first time.
In Mark 16:20, we read that the apostles
rCLwent out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with
them and confirmed the message by accompanying signsrCY (Mark
16:20, ESV).
Again, signs served the function of confirmation. They were
temporary supports meant to establish the authority of the
message during a foundational period. Once the foundation was
laid and the gospel was confirmed (Hebrews 2:3rCo4), these signs
faded of themselves, just as 1 Corinthians 13:8 said they
would. You don't hear about signs and wonders happening in the
churches after Galatians. They were never meant to be
permanent. Their purpose was tied to a specific
audiencerCounbelieving IsraelrCoand a specific timerCothe
establishment of the gospel through the apostles.
God has already confirmed the gospel with signs and wonders. When
God finishes a work such as creation (Genesis 2:1-2) or
redemption (Hebrews 10:12-14), He doesn't have to keep doing it
over and over again. That doesn't mean He "changes". It just
means He has already finished the work, and therefore we should
rest from it as well.
3) Scripture now confirms the signs as evidence for future
generations.
The writer of Hebrews speaks to these second generation believers
as if they have no first-hand experience with the sign gifts.
He expects them to believe in the gospel on the basis of the
testimony which was already wrought through those who first
heard the Lord (Hebrews 2:3-4).
rCLhow will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? That
salvation, first spoken by the Lord, was confirmed to us by
those who heard, God also testifying with them, both by signs
and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy
Spirit according to His own will.rCY (Hebrews 2:3rCo4, LSB)
Hebrews says that gospel "was confirmed" by the "signs",
"wonders" and "miracles". The Greek verb here is ebebai+ith-o
(b+E+#+|+#+#+|-A++++), from the verb bebaio+i, meaning rCLto confirm,
establish, make firm.rCY It is in the aorist passive indicative,
which points to a completed action in the past. It has no
indication of ongoing confirmation. This refers to how God
once-for-all validated the gospel message through the apostolic
generation. God now expects believers to believe the gospel on
the basis of past confirmation.
Likewise, by the time John wrote his gospel, he expected people
to believe in Jesus and the gospel on the basis of his own
testimony about the signs and wonders:
rCLNow Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples,
which are not written in this book; but these are written so
that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,
and that by believing you may have life in his name.rCY (John
20:30rCo31, ESV)
The written testimony of Scripture is what the Holy Spirit now
uses to bear witness to the signs and wonders. Clearly, God now
expects people to believe in Jesus on the basis of this
Bible testimony. There is no deficiency in Scripture to
persuade people to believe in Jesus Christ, that the Bible
should have to be continually confirmed over and over again,
after God already confirmed it.
Charismatics like to pretend like you're the one who lacks faith
if you don't believe signs and wonders are still happening
today. Yet it is they who lack faith in Scripture to believe
what God has already confirmed and declared in the Scriptures.
4) An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign (Matthew
12:39):
rCLBut He answered and said to them, rCLAn evil and adulterous
generation eagerly seeks for a sign...rCY (Matthew 12:39, LSB)
When Jesus said, rCLAn evil and adulterous generation eagerly seeks
for a signrCY (Matthew 12:39, LSB), He was rebuking the Jewish
leaders who demanded miraculous proof even after witnessing His
works. They were not seeking truthrCothey were testing God. Their
desire for signs wasnrCOt based in faith, but in stubborn
unbelief.
Jesus had already performed many miracles that clearly pointed to
His identity as the Messiah. Yet they refused to believe,
always asking for more. This constant demand for signs revealed
a heart that was unfaithful to GodrCorCLadulterousrCYrCochasing after
wonders rather than receiving the truth already revealed. True
faith doesnrCOt need a sign to believe; it believes based on
GodrCOs Word.
This further supports the idea that signs were never meant to be
a permanent feature of GodrCOs dealings with His people. When
people continually crave signs, theyrCOre aligning themselves
with the same faithless spirit Jesus condemned.
5) We hear nothing about signs, wonders, or miracles in the
churches after the book of Galatians.
After the book of Galatians, the New Testament shifts its focus
away from the outward sign giftsrCotongues, prophecy, healing,
and miraclesrCoand instead emphasizes faith, sound doctrine,
perseverance, and the fruit of the Spirit. This silence is not
accidental; it reflects the maturing of the church and the
fading role of signs, which had already served their
foundational purpose.
In Galatians itself (written early), Paul refers to miracles in
3:5: rCLDoes he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles
among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?rCY
(Galatians 3:5, ESV). But after this pointrCothrough Ephesians,
Philippians, Colossians, the Thessalonian letters, the
Pastorals (1rCo2 Timothy and Titus), and even PhilemonrCothere is
not one mention of tongues, prophecy, or miraculous healings
being practiced in the churches. The absence is striking.
6) Paul counselled sick people to take medicine, not seek faith
healings.
Paul urges Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach and
frequent ailments (1 Timothy 5:23), mentions that he had to
leave Trophimus sick in Miletus (2 Timothy 4:20), and
emphasizes the endurance of suffering rather than the removal
of it. In every case, there is no appeal to miraculous healing
or tongues as a solution or evidence of spiritual vitality.
Even PaulrCOs own thorn in the flesh remains (2 Corinthians
12:7rCo9), and GodrCOs answer is not healing, but grace. There's no
indication Paul rebuked Timothy for a "lack of faith".
This silence shows a natural shift from the early, sign-filled
period meant to *confirm* the gospel (Hebrews 2:3rCo4), to a
settled era where faith rests on the Word, not on visible
wonders. By the time of the later epistles, the foundation had
been laid, and the church was being built up through teaching,
exhortation, love, and endurancerCono longer through signs and
wonders.
7) John mentions nothing about signs and wonders when showing how
to discern who are the children of God.
In his epistles, the Apostle John is deeply concerned with
helping believers know who truly belongs to God. But when he
lays out the tests for discerning the children of God, he says
nothing about signs, wonders, tongues, or miracles. This is
telling.
In 1 John 3:10, John writes, rCLBy this it is evident who are the
children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever
does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one
who does not love his brotherrCY (1 John 3:10, ESV). The mark of
a child of God is righteous living and brotherly loverConot
spiritual manifestations.
Throughout 1 John, the apostle offers several criteria by which
believers can test the genuineness of othersrCoand themselves:
rCo Confessing Jesus Christ has come in the flesh (1 John 4:2)
rCo Obedience to GodrCOs commandments (1 John 2:3rCo4)
rCo Not loving the world (1 John 2:15)
rCo Loving fellow believers (1 John 3:14)
rCo Practicing righteousness (1 John 3:7rCo10)
rCo Holding to apostolic teaching (1 John 4:6)
These are the Spirit-produced fruits that identify someone as a
true child of God. But nowhere does John say, rCLLook for those
who speak in tongues,rCY or, rCLWatch for those who heal or
prophesy.rCY In fact, when he warns about false prophets and the
spirit of antichrist, he gives the test of doctrinerCowhat they
believe about JesusrConot their ability to perform signs (1 John
4:1rCo3).
This silence confirms that by the time of JohnrCOs writingrColikely
the latest of the apostlesrCothe sign gifts were no longer the
measure of spirituality or legitimacy. The church was to test
spirits and discern believers based on character, doctrine, and
love, not on outward wonders. Signs and wonders had fulfilled
their purpose; now, it was the enduring fruit of the Spirit
that proved who belonged to God.
8) James was talking about healing for those who repent of sin.
James 5:14rCo16 is not a blanket promise of miraculous healing for
every illness. The context makes it clear that James is
addressing sickness brought on by sinrCochastening from God meant
to lead a believer to repentance. The Greek word for rCLsickrCY in
verse 14 is *asthene+i*, which can mean physical illness but is
frequently used to describe spiritual weakness. For example, in
Romans 14:1, Paul says, rCLAs for the one who is *weak* in faith,
welcome him,rCY and in 2 Corinthians 12:10, rCLFor when I am
*weak*, then I am strong.rCY Likewise, in 1 Corinthians 8:11rCo12,
the *weaker brother* is spiritually vulnerable, not physically
ill. These uses show the flexibility of *asthene+i*, and that
its meaning depends on context.
In verse 15, James uses the even rarer word *kamn+i*, which also
points to spiritual weariness. It appears only one other time
in the New Testament, in Hebrews 12:3, where believers are
exhorted to consider Christ rCLso that you may not grow weary
(*kamn+i*) or fainthearted.rCY It describes spiritual exhaustion,
not physical disease.
But the clearest evidence comes in verse 16, which begins with
rCLThereforerCYrCorCLTherefore, confess your sins to one another and
pray for one another, that you may be healedrCY (James 5:16,
ESV). That *therefore* ties the healing directly to *confession
of sin*. The entire section builds toward this conclusion. The
sick person is not simply physically unwell; he is spiritually
compromised, likely under divine discipline. He calls the
elders, not for a healing show, but for spiritual help. The
elders pray, he confesses, and God forgives and heals. This is
a spiritual restoration process, not a display of sign gifts.
So James 5 is not about modern faith healers or miracle crusades.
ItrCOs about a straying believer who is restored through humble
confession, elder-led prayer, and the mercy of God. The healing
comes because the sin is addressed, and GodrCOs hand of
chastening is lifted. ItrCOs a passage about repentance and
restorationrConot miracles on demand.
9) Real healers in the Bible were being thronged by the masses.
In Scripture, whenever God truly empowered someone with the gift
of healing, the result was immediate, public, and overwhelming.
People *thronged* themrCopressing in from every side, desperate
to be healed. This was not a controlled environment with dim
lighting and soft music. It was chaotic, urgent, and public.
When Jesus healed, crowds flooded to Him. rCLAnd great crowds came
to him, bringing with them the lame, the blind, the crippled,
the mute, and many others, and they put them at his feet, and
he healed themrCY (Matthew 15:30, ESV). Mark records, rCLSo that
Jesus could no longer openly enter a town, but was out in
desolate places, and *people were coming to him from every
quarter*rCY (Mark 1:45, ESV). The demand was so intense that
people tore through roofs (Mark 2:4), pressed through crowds
(Mark 5:27), and followed Him for miles, sometimes without food
(Mark 8:2).
The apostles experienced the same. rCLThey even carried out the
sick into the streetsrCa that at least Peter's shadow might fall
on some of them. The people also gathered from the towns around
Jerusalem, bringing the sick and those afflicted with unclean
spirits, and they were all healedrCY (Acts 5:15rCo16, ESV). Note
that: *all* were healed.
Today, modern so-called healers donrCOt experience anything like
this. They set up scheduled services, carefully stage
environments, and limit what can be seen or verified. People
are not bringing their terminally ill family members from every
direction. City hospitals remain full. Paralyzed children do
not leap from wheelchairs en masse. There are no accounts of
entire neighborhoods being emptied of the sick because
someonerCOs shadow passed by.
This alone speaks volumes. The biblical healers had *real*,
public, and undeniable power. That power drew the desperate in
droves. The absence of such crowds around modern rCLhealersrCY is
not an accidentrCoit is evidence that the sign gift of healing,
as described in the New Testament, has ceased.
10) Real Bible healers cured people immediately and completely.
In Scripture, when God granted the gift of healing, the results
were immediate and completerConever partial, never delayed. There
are no examples of someone being told, rCLGo home and recover
over the next few weeks.rCY Healing happened on the spot, in full
view of others, and with undeniable effect.
In Matthew 8:3, Jesus touched a leper and rCLimmediately his
leprosy was cleansed.rCY In Matthew 9:6rCo7, Jesus told the
paralyzed man, rCLRise, pick up your bed and go home. And he rose
and went home.rCY When Peter healed the lame man at the temple
gate, Acts 3:7rCo8 says, rCLAnd immediately his feet and ankles
were made strong. And leaping up he stood and began to walk.rCY
Not only did he walkrCohe *leapt*.
There was no therapy, no slow improvement, no uncertainty. In
Acts 9:34, Peter told Aeneas, who had been bedridden for eight
years, rCLJesus Christ heals you; rise and make your bed.rCY He got
up *at once*. The results were total and instantaneous.
This is categorically different from what is claimed today.
Modern rCLhealingsrCY are often described as gradual, emotional, or
internalrCothings that cannot be verified on the spot. But
biblical healing required no process, and no interpretation.
The blind could see, the deaf could hear, the lame could walk,
and it happened instantly. Anything less does not match the
pattern God set through Christ and His apostles.
Some point to the healing in Mark 8rConot JohnrCowhere Jesus first
restores a manrCOs sight partially, then fully, as evidence that
healing in the Bible was sometimes gradual. But a closer look
shows this was a unique, purposeful exceptionrConot the normrCoand
even then, the healing was complete within moments.
Mark 8:23rCo25 says that Jesus spit on the manrCOs eyes and laid His
hands on him. The man said, rCLI see people, but they look like
trees, walking.rCY Then Jesus laid His hands on his eyes again,
and rCLhe opened his eyes, his sight was restored, and he saw
everything clearly.rCY
This was not a healing that took place over hours or days. It
unfolded in two quick stages, both under ChristrCOs direct
control. ThererCOs no indication that the man lacked faith or
that some outside factor delayed the healing. Rather, Jesus
deliberately chose to heal him in two steps, likely to
illustrate somethingrCoperhaps the disciplesrCO own spiritual
dullness, as the surrounding passage emphasizes their failure
to understand (Mark 8:17rCo21).
But even here, the healing was full and undeniable. The man
went from blindness to perfect sight within the span of a
single encounter with Christ. This remains consistent with the
biblical pattern: real healing was complete, immediate, and
obviousrConever vague, drawn-out, or unverifiable.
The Crowd Chooses Barabbas
Mat 27:15(15-19) Now, at the feast the governor according to custom released one to the crowd, a prisoner whom they were desiring. And they were holding then a prisoner, a notorious one called Barabbas. Therefore after they had been gathered together, Pilate said to them, Whom are you desiring that I release to you, Barabbas, or Jesus, the one called Christ? For he knew that because of envy they had delivered Him into his custody. Now, while he was seated on the official bench of a judge, his wife sent to him, saying, Have not even one thing to do with proceedings against that just man, for I suffered many things today in a dream because of him.
Mat 27:20(20-26) But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowds that they should ask for that man Barabbas and that they should destroy Jesus. And answering, the governor said to them, Whom are you desiring of the two that I should release to you? And they said, That man Barabbas. Pilate says to them, What then shall I do with Jesus, the one called Christ? They say, all of them, Let him be crucified. And he said, Why, what evil did he do? And they kept on shouting beyond measure, saying, Let him be crucified at once. And Pilate, having seen that he could effect nothing, but that rather an uproar was created, having taken water, washed his hands in the sight of the crowd, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this man. As for you, you see to it. And all the crowd answering said, His blood be upon us and upon our children. Then he released to them Barabbas, and having scourged Jesus, he handed Him over to be crucified.
Those false priests also claimed that what Jesus did were the operations of the evil ones, just like those that hate those within whom the gifts of the Spirit of God operates, and blesses others around them for doing the works of God the Father upon this earth.
Mrk 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mrk 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Mrk 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
How is that supposed to relate to your previous false accusations?
Source
"About | Christ Rose". Christrose, 11 May. 2024,
https://christrose.news/p/about.html.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?
That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.
On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).
https://christrose.news/salvation
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