From Newsgroup: alt.bible

I AM (John 8:58)

Yes, many people believe it says Jesus is God. That is one
interpretation. But there is another reasonable one.

"2. Assertion of Eternal Existence

The simple present tense oIaamo can be read as a statement of timeless existenceuI am rather than I was or I will be. In the Johannine
context (Johna8:58, oBefore Abraham was, Iaamo), the phrase emphasizes
an uncreated, eternal reality that predates human history. This
reading undergirds the doctrine of ChristAs pre-existence: that the
Logos existed before the world and entered history in the person of
Jesus."
(AI Lumo)

Thus we have these translations:

-- Living Bible
John 8:58 Jesus: ``The absolute truth is that I was in existence
before Abraham was ever born!''

-- International English
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, ``I am telling you the truth: I was
alive before Abraham was born!''

-- New Living Translation
John 8:58 Jesus answered, "The truth is, I existed before Abraham was
even born!"*

-- William's NewTestament
John 8:58 Then Jesus said to them, "I most solemnly say to you, I
existed before Abraham was born."

Something else to consider.

Do the true Scriptures of the Bible contradict themselves? No. But if
you interpret Jesus is God, it does contradict MANY Scriptures such as
1 Cor 11:3. Jesus was already in Heaven with God, then Paul wrote:

-- King James
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every
man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of
Christ is God.

A Bible scholar Dr. J.H. Hertz said that "I will be what I will be" is
also an approved rendering.

The footnote to the NASB Bible agrees and says, "1.14 Or I WILL BE
WHAT I WILL BE " .

So in summary, your interpretation cannot contradict other Scriptures.
If it does, re-evaluate.

Sincerely James
"SPECIAL CAMPAIGN
How War and Violent Conflict Will End
GodAs Kingdom will bring an end to war and establish true peace on
earth.
Learn More" See jw.org (9/20/2025)

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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Sep 20, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<7kiuck9gr2jai3cbvq0at2hv2f9kms76gs@4ax.com>):

I AM (John 8:58)

Let the Word of God show you the truth and the final word that destroys all your arguments.

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt
thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

You will never destroy the Word of the Lord. Ever.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it
shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Nonetheless the evil one fills the minds of the lost man with deceit, for those that are gullible and do not place their Faith upon him, but the wisdom of men. Thing about that readers all.

Yes, many people believe it says Jesus is God. That is one
interpretation. But there is another reasonable one.

"2. Assertion of Eternal Existence

The simple present tense rCLIamrCY can be read as a statement of timeless existencerCoI am rather than I was or I will be. In the Johannine
context (John8:58, rCLBefore Abraham was, IamrCY), the phrase emphasizes
an uncreated, eternal reality that predates human history. This
reading undergirds the doctrine of ChristrCOs pre-existence: that the
Logos existed before the world and entered history in the person of
Jesus."
(AI Lumo)

Thus we have these translations:

-- Living Bible
John 8:58 Jesus: ``The absolute truth is that I was in existence
before Abraham was ever born!''

-- International English
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, ``I am telling you the truth: I was
alive before Abraham was born!''

-- New Living Translation
John 8:58 Jesus answered, "The truth is, I existed before Abraham was
even born!"*

-- William's NewTestament
John 8:58 Then Jesus said to them, "I most solemnly say to you, I
existed before Abraham was born."

Something else to consider.

Do the true Scriptures of the Bible contradict themselves? No. But if
you interpret Jesus is God, it does contradict MANY Scriptures such as
1 Cor 11:3. Jesus was already in Heaven with God, then Paul wrote:

-- King James
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every
man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of
Christ is God.

A Bible scholar Dr. J.H. Hertz said that "I will be what I will be" is
also an approved rendering.

The footnote to the NASB Bible agrees and says, "1.14 Or I WILL BE
WHAT I WILL BE " .

So in summary, your interpretation cannot contradict other Scriptures.
If it does, re-evaluate.

Sincerely James
"SPECIAL CAMPAIGN
How War and Violent Conflict Will End
GodrCOs Kingdom will bring an end to war and establish true peace on
earth.
Learn More" See jw.org (9/20/2025)

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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

You simply repeat the same old refuted lies over and over again in brain-washing fashion.

John 8:58 cannot be brushed aside as merely rCLI existed.rCY The Jews who heard Him didnrCOt pick up stones because He claimed pre-existencerCothey understood He claimed the divine name of Exodus 3:14. God said to Moses,
rCLI AM WHO I AMrCa Say this to the people of Israel, rCyI AM has sent me to yourCOrCY (Exodus 3:14, ESV). When Jesus declared, rCLBefore Abraham was, I amrCY (John 8:58, ESV), He deliberately used the same eternal name of God,
not the normal past-tense verb for existence. If He only meant rCLI existed,rCY He would have said, rCLBefore Abraham was, I was.rCY

Notice the reaction: rCLSo they picked up stones to throw at himrCY (John 8:59, ESV). Why? Because they knew He was claiming equality with God.
Later in John 10:33, they explicitly tell Him, rCLIt is not for a good
work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you,
being a man, make yourself God.rCY

As for 1 Corinthians 11:3, Paul does not deny ChristrCOs deity. He
describes role and order, not inferiority of essence. Just as man and
woman are equal in nature but distinct in role, so the Son is one in
nature with the Father (John 10:30; Philippians 2:6) while voluntarily submitting in role (John 5:19; 1 Corinthians 15:28). There is no contradictionrCoScripture presents both the eternal equality of Christ
with the Father and His willing submission in redemptive order.

Finally, rCLI will be what I will berCY (Exodus 3:14, footnote) still
conveys the self-existence and eternality of God. Whether rendered rCLI
AMrCY or rCLI WILL BE,rCY the meaning is that God exists from Himself, independent and eternal. JesusrCO words in John 8:58 match that claimrCoHe declares Himself eternal, not merely created.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Sun, 21 Sep 2025 12:51:49 -0500, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

You simply repeat the same old refuted lies over and over again in >brain-washing fashion.

Look whose talking.

John 8:58 cannot be brushed aside as merely oI existed.o The Jews who
heard Him didnAt pick up stones because He claimed pre-existenceu

Pre-existence made him greater than just human. Of course they didn't
want to hear that. That made him unique and divine.

they
understood He claimed the divine name of Exodus 3:14. God said to Moses,
oI AM WHO I AMa Say this to the people of Israel, aI AM has sent me to
youAo (Exodus 3:14, ESV). When Jesus declared, oBefore Abraham was, I
amo (John 8:58, ESV), He deliberately used the same eternal name of God,
not the normal past-tense verb for existence. If He only meant oI
existed,o He would have said, oBefore Abraham was, I was.o

Actually, God existed long before Abraham. If he was God he should
have said 'Before the world was, I AM.

Notice the reaction: oSo they picked up stones to throw at himo (John
8:59, ESV). Why? Because they knew He was claiming equality with God.

That may have been in their sick minds, but Jesus himself never
claimed to be God or equal to God.

Later in John 10:33, they explicitly tell Him, oIt is not for a good
work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you,
being a man, make yourself God.o

Did Jesus think that is what they meant? Look at the next verses
34-36:

"34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye
are gods?
35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the
scripture cannot be broken;
36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into
the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

Thus Jesus took it that they were calling "a god", and he responded
with that thought.

As for 1 Corinthians 11:3, Paul does not deny ChristAs deity. He
describes role and order, not inferiority of essence. Just as man and
woman are equal in nature but distinct in role, so the Son is one in
nature with the Father (John 10:30; Philippians 2:6) while voluntarily >submitting in role (John 5:19; 1 Corinthians 15:28). There is no >contradictionuScripture presents both the eternal equality of Christ
with the Father and His willing submission in redemptive order.

Jesus admitted God was greater than him. (John 14:28)
To look at it your way, Jesus was then saying,
'I am greater than myself'.

Also, at 1 Cor 11:3, where is the Holy Spirit? The churches say it is
a person. Then shouldn't it have a position in God's arrangement? But
Paul didn't even mention it.

That's because he knew it was a FORCE of God to accomplish his will.

Finally, oI will be what I will beo (Exodus 3:14, footnote) still
conveys the self-existence and eternality of God. Whether rendered oI
AMo or oI WILL BE,o the meaning is that God exists from Himself,

That is illogical. Can you hear what you are saying?

independent and eternal. JesusA words in John 8:58 match that claimuHe >declares Himself eternal, not merely created.

Jesus will live forever. Call it what you want.

Sincerely James
"SPECIAL CAMPAIGN
An End to War?uHow?
The Bible explains that worldwide peace is possible and will soon be a
reality.
Learn More". See jw.org (9/23/2025)


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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Sep 23, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<a3l6dk9l618ov6o5g7isvq51ug39rsvp8v@4ax.com>):

Actually, God existed long before Abraham. If he was God he should
have said 'Before the world was, I AM.

Jhn 17:5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with theebefore the world was.

1Co 2:7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery,even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

2Ti 1:9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according
to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Tit 1:2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Wed, 24 Sep 2025 00:36:03 -0700, None <none@none.non> wrote:

On Sep 23, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote >(Message-ID:<a3l6dk9l618ov6o5g7isvq51ug39rsvp8v@4ax.com>):

Actually, God existed long before Abraham. If he was God he should
have said 'Before the world was, I AM.

Jhn 17:5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory >which I had with theebefore the world was.

1Co 2:7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery,even the hidden wisdom, >which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

2Ti 1:9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according >to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us >in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Tit 1:2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before >the world began;

Yes, they are all good Scriptures, as is the rest of the Bible.

Sincerely James
"SPECIAL CAMPAIGN
Finding Peace Despite War and Violent Conflict
The Bible is helping those affected by war in practical ways now.
See How". See jw.org (9/25/2025)
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Sep 25, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<epjbdkhoe630ho1v515ecm0pq23j1cugu7@4ax.com>):

On Wed, 24 Sep 2025 00:36:03 -0700, None<none@none.non> wrote:

On Sep 23, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<a3l6dk9l618ov6o5g7isvq51ug39rsvp8v@4ax.com>):

Actually, God existed long before Abraham. If he was God he should
have said 'Before the world was, I AM.

Jhn 17:5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory
which I had with theebefore the world was.

1Co 2:7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery,even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

2Ti 1:9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us
in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Tit 1:2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Yes, they are all good Scriptures, as is the rest of the Bible.

Do you fully agree with them?

Sincerely James

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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 18:39:51 -0700, None <none@none.non> wrote:

On Sep 25, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote >(Message-ID:<epjbdkhoe630ho1v515ecm0pq23j1cugu7@4ax.com>):

On Wed, 24 Sep 2025 00:36:03 -0700, None<none@none.non> wrote:

On Sep 23, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote
(Message-ID:<a3l6dk9l618ov6o5g7isvq51ug39rsvp8v@4ax.com>):

Actually, God existed long before Abraham. If he was God he should
have said 'Before the world was, I AM.

Jhn 17:5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the
glory
which I had with theebefore the world was.

1Co 2:7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery,even the hidden wisdom, >> > which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

2Ti 1:9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according
to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us
in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Tit 1:2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before
the world began;

Yes, they are all good Scriptures, as is the rest of the Bible.

Do you fully agree with them?

I believe all Scripture is truth. (John 17:17)

Sincerely James
"SPECIAL CAMPAIGN
Finding Peace Despite War and Violent Conflict
The Bible is helping those affected by war in practical ways now.
See How". See jw.org (9/25/2025)

Sincerely James

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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

========================================
Fri, 26 Sep 2025 07:52:44 -0400
<ievcdkddhd4l1ha6pueofls3uaf12jb94l@4ax.com>
"Sincerely", "soley from the Bible" and
"Honestly is my middle name"
James <zebrabible@proton.me> wrote:
========================================

I believe all Scripture is truth. (John 17:17)

Liar. That's why Watchtower had to keep inserting words into the NWT
that are not in the original languages (such as repeatedly adding
"other" into Colossians 1) to try and shore up their denial that Christ
is God. And no, adding words which DON'T change the meaning of the
passage to help it flow smoothly in English, is NOT the same thing as
adding words which make the passage mean the EXACT OPPOSITE of what it otherwise teaches.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Sep 26, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<ievcdkddhd4l1ha6pueofls3uaf12jb94l@4ax.com>):

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 18:39:51 -0700, None<none@none.non> wrote:

On Sep 25, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<epjbdkhoe630ho1v515ecm0pq23j1cugu7@4ax.com>):

On Wed, 24 Sep 2025 00:36:03 -0700, None<none@none.non> wrote:

On Sep 23, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<a3l6dk9l618ov6o5g7isvq51ug39rsvp8v@4ax.com>):

Actually, God existed long before Abraham. If he was God he should have said 'Before the world was, I AM.

Jhn 17:5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory
which I had with theebefore the world was.

1Co 2:7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery,even the hidden wisdom,
which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

2Ti 1:9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according
to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given
us
in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Tit 1:2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before
the world began;

Yes, they are all good Scriptures, as is the rest of the Bible.

Do you fully agree with them?

I believe all Scripture is truth. (John 17:17)

Do you fully agree with them?

Sincerely James

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