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rCLIn the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and theWord was God.
He was in the beginning with God.made that was maderCY (John 1:1rCo3, ESV).
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing
rCLNo one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the FatherrCOs side,he has made him knownrCY (John 1:18, ESV).
John 1:1 supplement
(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was a god. (NWT)
-- King James
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
"In the beginning"
Jesus had a beginning. (John 1:1; Col 1:15) Also:
-- New King James
Proverbs 8:30 Then I was beside Him, as a master craftsman; and I was
daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him,
But let's ASSUME for the moment that John 1:1 in the KJV is true. Then
it contradicts MANY other Scriptures: Besides the one listed below:
"I was beside Him". He wasn't beside himself. Two persons there. Contradiction #1.
Also
-- King James
Proverbs 8:22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way,
before his works of old.
The beginning of His works of old, was the Word. Contradiction #2.
But God always was: It is Jesus who had a beginning.
-- King James
Psalms 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou
hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to
everlasting, thou art God.
Jesus died and was resurrected. God never died and has been alive from "everlasting to everlasting." Contradiction
#3
Did the NWT add the indefinte pronoun "a" for clarity? Yes:
(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was a god. (NWT)
At John 1:1 did the KJV also add any words not in the original? YES.
They added "the": "In THE beginning"
There is no "the" in the original Greek. The original actually starts
out:
"in beginning". Not "in THE beginning".
Also, every other translation I have seen, adds the word "the" there,
which is not in the original.
-- New King James
Luke 18:19 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one
is good but One, that is, God. Contradiction #4
-- American Standard
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the
angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only. Contradiction
#5
The KJV chopped out, "neither the Son". In the original Greek it says:
"nor the son". (Kingdom interlinear)
-- New King James
1 John 4:12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another,
God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. Contradiction
#6.
Yet people saw Jesus. And Jesus said those who have seen me have seen
the Father. But did they literly see the Father?
No. Notice:
- New King James
John 6:46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from
God; He has seen the Father.
Thus Jesus meant God's attributes. Contradiction #7
So if adding a word for clarity is so wrong, then MOST ALL
TRANSLATIONS ARE ALL WRONG. Notice:
"There are two issues affecting the translating of the verse, 1)
theology and 2) proper application of grammatical rules. The commonly
held theology that Jesus is God may lead one to believe that the
proper way to render the verse is the traditional rendering.[27] The
opposing theology that Jesus is subordinate to God as his Chief agent
may lead to the conclusion that "... a god" or "... divine" is the
proper rendering.[28] This highlights the importance of understanding
and applying the proper grammatical rules to any translation to avoid
bias."
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_1:1)
"Translations by James Moffatt, Edgar J. Goodspeed and Hugh J.
Schonfield render part of the verse as "...the Word [Logos] was
divine"."
"An Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible commentary notes:
This second theos could also be translated 'divine' as the
construction indicates "a qualitative sense for theos"." (https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/55611-christ-divinity-explained-in-jo
hn-11c/)
"In a 1973 Journal of Biblical Literature article, Philip B. Harner, Professor Emeritus of Religion at Heidelberg College, claimed that the traditional translation of John 1:1c ("and the Word was God") is
incorrect. He endorses the New English Bible translation of John 1:1c,
"and what God was, the Word was."[50] However, Harner's claim has been criticized.[51] Harner says:"
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_1:1
Notice these other translations:
"and the Word was a god" rCo Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in an
Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome's New
Translation: With a Corrected Text, London. [Bible Scholar]
1822: "and the Word was a god" rCo The New Testament in Greek and
English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)
[theologian]
1829: "and the Word was a god" rCo The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel
History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829)
[probably a theologian]
1863: "and the Word was a god" rCo A Literal Translation of the New
Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)
[Bible Scholar]
1864: "and a god was the Word" rCo The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin
Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)
[Bible Scholar]
1879: "and the Word was a god" rCo Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J.
Becker, 1979) [probably a theologian]
1885: "and the Word was a god" rCo Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible
(R. Young, 1885) [probably a theologian]
1924: "the Logos was divine" rCo The Bible: James Moffatt Translation,
by James Moffatt.[18] [[Bible scholar]]
1935: "and the Word was divine" rCo The Bible: An American Translation,
by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago.[19] [[Bible
Scholar]]
1955: "so the Word was divine" rCo The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh
J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.[20] [[Bible scholar]]
1958: "and the Word was a god" rCo The New Testament of Our Lord and
Saviour Jesus Anointed (J. L. Tomanec, 1958); [Bible scholar]
1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" rCo Das Evangelium
nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, G||ttingen, Germany [theologian]
1985: "So the Word was divine" - The Original New Testament, by Hugh
J. Schonfield.[22] [[Bible Scholar]]
2017: "and the Logos was god" - The New Testament: A Translation, by
David Bentley Hart.[25] [[theologian]]
So in summary. John 1:1 is controvertible at best. The definite
article "the" has been inserted there in order to read better in
English.
Also, because of the Greek grammar there, many Bible say "a God"
instead of just "God". But if you believe the latter one, then you
would have to explain all the contradictions that would cause. Such as
Paul's statement at 1 Cor 11:3,
- King James
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every
man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of
Christ is God.
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Learn More"See jw.org (9/17/2025)
"Sincerely" and "solely from the Bible" James, letAs slow this down and
hold it up against Scripture itself. You are trying to build a case that >John 1:1 is ocontrovertible,o but the Greek grammar and the context say >otherwise.
First, the Greek text of John 1:1 reads:
?? ???? ?? ? ?????,
??? ? ????? ?? ???? ??? ????,
??? ???? ?? ? ?????.
Notice two things:
1. *The subject and predicate are distinguished by the article.* John
did not write o? ???? ?? ? ?????o (the God was the Word). That would
make the Father and the Word identical in person. Instead he dropped the >article before *theos* (oGodo) and placed the article before *logos* >(oWordo), showing that othe Wordo is the subject and oGodo is the
predicate. This construction indicates quality, not indefiniteness. It >means: oThe Word was fully God,o not oa god.o ThatAs why grammarians
call it a *Colwell construction.*
2. *John carefully guards against confusion.*
u Phrase one: oIn beginning was the Wordo = eternal preexistence
(compare Genesis 1:1).
u Phrase two: othe Word was with Godo = distinction of persons.
u Phrase three: othe Word was Godo = identity of nature.
JohnAs balance is perfect. He avoids Sabellianism (that the Son is
the Father)
and avoids Arianism (that the Son is a lesser god).
Now, the supposed ocontradictionso vanish when we read the texts rightly:
* *Proverbs 8:22, 30.* This is Wisdom personified.
he NT shows that
Christ is the wisdom of God (1 Corinthians 1:24), but Proverbs is not a >literal biography of the SonAs origin. The Son is eternal (John 17:5).
Wisdom obrought fortho is poetic imagery.
* *Psalm 90:2.* ExactlyuGod is from everlasting to everlasting. But
Hebrews 1 applies those very eternal attributes to the Son: oYour
throne, O God, is forever and evero (Hebrews 1:8, ESV).
* *oJesus died.o* Yes, in His humanity. But His divine nature never
ceased.
If God could not assume flesh that could die, then salvation
would be impossible. The eternal Son took on true humanity so He could
taste death for everyone (Hebrews 2:9).
* *Luke 18:19.* Jesus was not denying His own goodness, but exposing the >manAs shallow understanding. If only God is good, then JesusA goodness >reveals His deity.
* *Matthew 24:36.* As the incarnate Son, He voluntarily accepted limits
to knowledge (Philippians 2:6u7). That does not contradict His deity, it >displays His humility.
* *1 John 4:12 / John 6:46.* True: no one has seen the Father in His >essence. But the Son, who is Himself God, has made Him known (John
1:18). Seeing Jesus is the fullest revelation of God available to man.
As for your point about othe beginningo lacking the article, Greek often >omits the article where English requires it. That is why virtually every >translator in history rightly renders it oIn the beginning.o The absence
of the article does not mean oin a beginning.o It refers to the absolute >beginning, before all creation (compare Genesis 1:1 LXX: ?? ????).
Finally, the claim that many Bibles read oa godo is misleading. The
vast, overwhelming majority of all translations across history, ancient
and modern, read othe Word was God.o A few isolated versions that >experimented with oa godo or odivineo have been rejected because they
ignore the grammar and context. Even Philip Harner, whom you quoted,
argued for qualitative force: owhat God was, the Word wasounot that He
was oa god.o
The grammar, the context, and the rest of Scripture all align:
u The Son is eternal (John 17:5).
u The Son created all things (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16).
u The Son is called God directly (Hebrews 1:8; Titus 2:13).
u The Son shares the FatherAs glory (John 17:5).
So John 1:1 is not ocontrovertible.o It is the cornerstone: the eternal >Word, distinct from the Father, yet fully God.
Would you like me to show how the immediate verses after John 1:1 (vv.
2u3) completely rule out the oa god/created beingo interpretation?
Look carefully at John 1:1u3, James:
oIn the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and theWord was God.
He was in the beginning with God.made that was madeo (John 1:1u3, ESV).
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing
Verse 3 is decisive.
1. *The Word is eternal.*
John repeats it for emphasis: oHe was in the beginning with Godo (v.
2). That removes any thought that the Word Himself was a created being.
If the Word were made, He would belong inside the class of othings that
were made.o
2. *The Word created *all things*.*
oAll things were made through him.o This is universal. Nothing that
exists owes its origin to anyone but the Word.
3. *John closes the loophole.*
oWithout him was not anything made that was made.o That means if the
Word were created, He would have had to create Himselfuwhich is
impossible. The Word cannot be both the Creator of all and yet Himself a >product of creation.
That is why Paul echoes the same truth:
u oFor by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible
and invisibleaall things were created through him and for him. And he is >before all things, and in him all things hold togethero (Colossians
1:16u17, ESV).
If Christ created everything in heaven and earthuvisible and
invisibleuHe cannot belong to either category. He stands outside
creation, eternal, uncreated, the very source of existence.
This shuts the door completely on the claim that John 1:1 should read oa >god.o The one who is called the Word is the eternal Creator, distinct
from the Father, but fully sharing the nature of God.
HereAs how John ties the whole prologue together, James:
oNo one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the FatherAs side,he has made him knowno (John 1:18, ESV).
1. *oNo one has ever seen God.o*
John reminds us that the Father in His essence is invisible (compare
1 Timothy 6:16).
2. *oThe only God, who is at the FatherAs side.o*
Some manuscripts read *monogen?s theos*uothe only begotten God.o
Others read *monogen?s huios*uothe only begotten Son.o In either case,
John is declaring that the Son is uniquely begotten and is Himself God,
yet distinct from the Father because He is oat the FatherAs side.o
3. *oHe has made him known.o*
The Son fully reveals the Father, because He shares the FatherAs
very nature (John 14:9).
So John begins with:
u The Word was with God and was God (John 1:1).
And ends with:
u The only begotten God, who is at the FatherAs side, has revealed Him
(John 1:18).
The obookendso of the prologue leave no room for Jesus being oa godo or
a created being. He is eternal, uncreated, and the full revealer of the >Father because He Himself is God by nature.
LetAs trace JohnAs witness to ChristAs deity through the Gospel, James.
It isnAt just in 1:1 and 1:18uit runs like a thread throughout.
1. *John 5:18*
oThis was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him,
because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling
God his own Father, making himself equal with God.o
u The Jews understood that JesusA claims placed Him on equality with
God.
2. *John 8:58*
oJesus said to them, aTruly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham
was, I am.Ao
u Jesus didnAt just claim pre-existence; He used the divine name oI
AMo (compare Exodus 3:14). The Jews responded by picking up stones for >blasphemy.
3. *John 10:30*
oI and the Father are one.o
u Not oone persono but oone in essence.o The Jews again tried to
stone Him, because they rightly understood this as a claim to deity.
4. *John 14:9*
oWhoever has seen me has seen the Father.o
u Not just reflecting God, but fully revealing Him, because He
shares the divine nature.
5. *John 20:28*
Thomas answered him, oMy Lord and my God!o
u The Gospel closes with the climactic confession of JesusA deity,
and Jesus commends ThomasA faith instead of correcting him.
So JohnAs Gospel is consistent:
u Prologue: the Word was God (1:1) a
the only God at the FatherAs side
(1:18).
u Ministry: Jesus claims divine prerogatives and titles (5:18, 8:58,
10:30, 14:9).
u Conclusion: Thomas confesses Him as God (20:28).
The structure is deliberate: John begins, continues, and ends with the
same truthuJesus is fully God.
Then letAs expand beyond John, James, and see how the whole New
Testament speaks with one voice about ChristAs deity:
1. *Paul*
u *Colossians 1:16u17*: oFor by him all things were created, in
heaven and on earth, visible and invisibleaall things were created
through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all
things hold together.o
? If Christ created *all* things and sustains them, He cannot be
part of creation.
u *Colossians 2:9*: oFor in him the whole fullness of deity dwells
bodily.o
? Not just odivine quality,o but the fullness of GodAs being.
u *Titus 2:13*: oaour great God and Savior Jesus Christ.o
? The Greek grammar (Granville Sharp rule) requires one person:
Christ is called both God and Savior.
2. *Peter*
u *2 Peter 1:1*: oaby the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus
Christ.o
? Again, one person: Jesus is both God and Savior.
3. *Author of Hebrews*
u *Hebrews 1:3*: oHe is the radiance of the glory of God and the
exact imprint of his nature.o
? Christ is not a copy or a lesser being, but the exact
representation of GodAs very essence.
u *Hebrews 1:8* (quoting Psalm 45:6): oBut of the Son he says, aYour
throne, O God, is forever and ever.Ao
? The Father Himself addresses the Son as God.
4. *Paul again, in Philippians 2:6u7*
u oThough he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God
a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a >servant.o
? The Son existed in the very form of God before He humbled Himself
in incarnation.
Together, John, Paul, Peter, and the author of Hebrews all testify:
u The Son is eternal.
u The Son is the Creator.
u The Son shares GodAs very essence.
u The Son is rightly addressed and worshiped as God.
Here is the consolidated chain of testimony across the New Testament
that affirms Christ as God, James:
*JohnAs Witness*
u John 1:1 u oIn the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.o
u John 1:18 u oThe only God, who is at the FatherAs side, he has made
him known.o
u John 5:18 u The Jews sought to kill Him obecauseahe was even calling
God his own Father, making himself equal with God.o
u John 8:58 u oBefore Abraham was, I am.o
u John 10:30 u oI and the Father are one.o
u John 20:28 u Thomas: oMy Lord and my God!o
*PaulAs Witness*
u Colossians 1:16u17 u By Him all things were created; He is before all >things; in Him all things hold together.
u Colossians 2:9 u oIn him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily.o
u Philippians 2:6 u He existed in the oform of Godo and equal with God >before taking the form of a servant.
u Titus 2:13 u oaour great God and Savior Jesus Christ.o
*PeterAs Witness*
u 2 Peter 1:1 u oathe righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.o
*Author of Hebrews*
u Hebrews 1:3 u oHe is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact >imprint of his nature.o
u Hebrews 1:8 u oBut of the Son he says, aYour throne, O God, is forever
and ever.Ao
*Additional Witnesses*
u Revelation 1:17u18 u The First and the Last, who died and is alive >forevermore (divine title applied to Christ).
u Revelation 22:13 u oI am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the
last, the beginning and the end.o
This chain shows unity across all major NT witnesses:
u John (eyewitness apostle),
u Paul (apostle to the Gentiles),
u Peter (pillar of the church),
u the author of Hebrews (inspired theologian of ChristAs priesthood),
u and John again in Revelation.
All declare: the Son is eternal, Creator, exact image of GodAs nature, >worshiped as God, and addressed as God.
Here is a progressive outline of the New Testament witness to ChristAs >deity, James. Notice how each step builds on the last:
*1. Christ is Eternal*
u John 1:1 u oIn the beginning was the Worda and the Word was God.o
u John 8:58 u oBefore Abraham was, I am.o
u Revelation 22:13 u oI am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the
last, the beginning and the end.o
*2. Christ is the Creator*
u John 1:3 u oAll things were made through him, and without him was not
any thing made that was made.o
u Colossians 1:16u17 u oBy him all things were createda and in him all >things hold together.o
u Hebrews 1:2 u God ohas spoken to us by his Sona through whom also he >created the world.o
*3. Christ Shares GodAs Nature Fully*
u Colossians 2:9 u oIn him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily.o
u Hebrews 1:3 u oHe is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact >imprint of his nature.o
u Philippians 2:6 u oThough he was in the form of God, did not count >equality with God a thing to be grasped.o
*4. Christ Bears GodAs Titles*
u John 10:30 u oI and the Father are one.o
u Titus 2:13 u oaour great God and Savior Jesus Christ.o
u 2 Peter 1:1 u oathe righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.o
u Hebrews 1:8 u oBut of the Son he says, aYour throne, O God, is forever
and ever.Ao
*5. Christ Receives Worship Due to God Alone*
u John 20:28 u Thomas: oMy Lord and my God!o (Jesus affirms, not corrects).
u Revelation 1:17u18 u Worshiped as othe First and the Lasta I died, and >behold I am alive forevermore.o
u Philippians 2:10u11 u oAt the name of Jesus every knee should bowa and >every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.o
This outline shows a clear, consistent progression:
u Eternal ? Creator ? Divine Nature ? Divine Titles ? Divine Worship.
Summary
John 1:1 cannot mean oa god.o The Greek grammar (???? ?? ? ?????) shows >quality, not indefiniteness. If the Word were oa god,o John 1:3 would >collapse, because oall things were made through him, and without him was
not anything made that was made.o If the Word were created, He would
fall under othings made.o But John excludes that.
The New Testament everywhere confirms:
u *Eternal*: oBefore Abraham was, I amo (John 8:58).
u *Creator*: oBy him all things were createdo (Colossians 1:16).
u *Nature*: oIn him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodilyo
(Colossians 2:9).
u *Titles*: oOur great God and Savior Jesus Christo (Titus 2:13; Hebrews >1:8).
u *Worship*: Thomas: oMy Lord and my God!o (John 20:28);
Jesus every knee should bowo (Philippians 2:10u11).
Step by step: Eternal ? Creator ? Divine Nature ? Divine Titles ? Divine >Worship.
This united testimony of Scripture leaves no room for Jesus as oa god.o
He is fully God.
HereAs a direct answer against the NWT rendering, James:
The NWT reads: oIn the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
God, and the Word was a godo (John 1:1). But verses 2u3 immediately
refute that interpretation:
u oHe was in the beginning with God.
and without him was not anything made that was madeo (John 1:2u3, ESV).
If the Word were oa god,o then He would be one of the othings that were >made.o But John closes that loophole: nothing made was made without Him.
If He made everything, He cannot be a creature.
The rest of Scripture agrees:
u *Eternal* u oBefore Abraham was, I amo (John 8:58).
u *Creator* u oBy him all things were createda all things were created >through him and for himo (Colossians 1:16).
u *Nature* u oIn him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodilyo
(Colossians 2:9).
u *Titles* u oOur great God and Savior Jesus Christo (Titus 2:13;
Hebrews 1:8).
u *Worship* u Thomas confessed, oMy Lord and my God!o (John 20:28), and
Paul says every knee will bow to Him (Philippians 2:10u11).
The NWTAs oa godo contradicts the context of John 1:3 and the unanimous
NT witness. The Word is eternal, uncreated, and fully God.
Here is a point-by-point rebuttal of each so-called ocontradiction,o
James. Every one of them collapses under ScriptureAs own explanation.
*Claimed Contradiction #1: Proverbs 8:30 u oI was beside him.o*
James argues: If the Word was God, He couldnAt be beside God.
*Answer:* Proverbs 8 is poetry personifying wisdom, not a literal
biography of the SonAs obeginning.o
wisdom language to Christ (1 Corinthians 1:24), but that doesnAt mean >Proverbs teaches He was created. John 1:1 settles the matter: the Word
*was with* God (distinction of persons) and *was God* (unity of nature).
*Claimed Contradiction #2: Proverbs 8:22 u oThe LORD possessed me in the >beginning of his way.o*
James argues: The Word had a beginning.
*Answer:* The Hebrew verb *qanah* can mean opossess,o oestablish,o or
obring forth.o In context, it speaks of wisdomAs role in creation, not
the Son being made. If you force this as creation, then GodAs own wisdom
had a beginningu
which is absurd. Christ as GodAs eternal Word is
uncreated (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16).
*Claimed Contradiction #3: Psalm 90:2 u God is ofrom everlasting to >everlasting.o*
James argues: God never died, but Jesus did, so He canAt be God.
*Answer:* In His humanity, Jesus truly died (Hebrews 2:9). In His divine >nature, He is eternal and unchangeable (Hebrews 13:8). The incarnation >united full deity with full humanity. God did not cease to exist;
rather, the Son offered up His human life for our redemption.
*Claimed Contradiction #4: Luke 18:19 u oNo one is good but One, that
is, God.o*
James argues: Jesus denied being God.
*Answer:* JesusA point was to confront the manAs shallow view of ogood.o
If only God is good, and Jesus is good, then the implication is that
Jesus is God. He was drawing the man to recognize His true identity, not >denying it.
*Claimed Contradiction #5: Matthew 24:36 u oNor the Son, but the Father >only.o*
James argues: If Jesus is God, He would know everything.
*Answer:* In His humanity, the Son voluntarily accepted limits
(Philippians 2:6u7). Yet as God He knows all things (John 16:30; 21:17). >This isnAt contradiction but the mystery of the incarnation: one Person
with both divine omniscience and real human limitation.
*Claimed Contradiction #6: 1 John 4:12 u oNo one has seen God at any time.o*
James argues: People saw Jesus, so He canAt be God.
*Answer:* No one has seen the Father in His essence (John 6:46). But
John 1:18 explains: oThe only God, who is at the FatherAs side, he has
made him known.o Seeing Jesus is seeing the perfect revelation of God
(John 14:9).
*Claimed Contradiction #7: John 6:46 u oNot that anyone has seen the
Father, except he who is from God.o*
James argues: Therefore when Jesus said, oHe who has seen me has seen
the Father,o He meant attributes only, not deity.
*Answer:* Jesus doesnAt say He merely shows GodAs attributes. He says He >perfectly reveals the Father because He and the Father are one (John
10:30).
creature could do.
*Summary:*
Not one of these texts contradicts John 1:1. Each one is harmonized in
the doctrine of the incarnation:
u Distinction of persons (the Word was with God).
u Unity of essence (the Word was God).
u True humanity assumed by the eternal Son, so that He could die, while >remaining eternally God.
The supposed ocontradictionso come only from forcing texts out of
context. The Scriptures, read together, are consistent: Jesus Christ is
the eternal Word, Creator, and true God.
You simply repeat the same dumb, refuted lies over and over again.
You are stacking verse against verse as if Scripture contradicts itself,
but that comes from misreading. The same Word that says the head of
Christ is God (1 Corinthians 11:3) also calls the Son eternal, Creator,
and God Himself. Both truths stand together. LetAs walk through the very >passages you raise:
1. John 1:1u3 u The Word was in the beginning, with God, and was God.
John immediately explains: oAll things were made through him, and
without him was not any thing made that was made.o If the Word Himself
were created, He would belong to othings made.o But John closes that
door: nothing came into being apart from Him. That means He cannot be a >creature.
2. Colossians 1:15u16 u You point to ofirstborn of all creationo as if
that means Jesus was created. But ofirstborno in Scripture often refers
to rank and inheritance, not origin (Psalm 89:27, oI will make him the >firstborn, the highest of the kings of the eartho). Paul immediately >explains what he means: oby him all things were created.o If He created
all things, He cannot be one of the created things.
Paul doubles down:
oHe is before all things, and in him all things hold togethero
(Colossians 1:17). That is eternal preexistence and sustaining power u >attributes of God alone.
3. John 17:5 u Jesus prays, oGlorify meawith the glory I had with you
before the world existed.o That is not the language of a creature who
began in time. That is shared glory from before creation u
and Isaiah
42:8 says God does not share His glory with another. Yet the Son shares
it, because He is of the same divine essence.
4. Hebrews 1:8u10 u The Father Himself says to the Son: oYour throne, O
God, is forever and evero
and applies Psalm 102 u a Psalm addressed to
Yahweh, the eternal Creator u to the Son: oYou, Lord, laid the
foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work
of your hands.o The inspired writer has no problem calling the Son both >oGodo and oLordo in the fullest sense.
5. John 20:28 u When Thomas says, oMy Lord and my God,o this is no mere >exclamation. John records it as the climactic confession of the Gospel,
and Jesus blesses his faith instead of correcting him.
The Spirit
inspired it to show us the right response to the risen Christ.
6. Revelation 22:13 u The Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the >Beginning and the End.
In Revelation, Jesus speaks it of Himself. If He is not eternal God,
then He has taken the name of Yahweh in vain u which Scripture never allows.
7. 1 Corinthians 11:3 u The SonAs submission to the Father does not deny
His deity.
It shows the order within the Godhead. Even in eternity, the
Son shares the divine essence while relating to the Father as Son. >Distinction of persons does not cancel unity of nature.
James, when you put all these verses together, the conclusion is >inescapable:
u The Son was with God,
yet was God (John 1:1).
u The Son made all things (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16).
u The Son is eternal, sharing glory with the Father before the world
(John 17:5).
u The Son is called God directly (Hebrews 1:8; Titus 2:13).
u The Son receives worship due to God alone (Philippians 2:10u11;
Revelation 5:13u14).
This is not a later invention but the consistent witness of Scripture.
To deny it is to set one passage against another, when the Spirit has
woven them together into one voice: Jesus Christ is eternal, Creator,
and true God.
On Sep 17, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote >(Message-ID:<ku7lck9mfkbo5lnkgfuaacjgtlcogb9ikf@4ax.com>):
John 1:1 supplement
(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was a god. (NWT)
-- King James
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
This is not speaking of Jesus being born as a human, not at all.
It IS
speaking of the beginning direct reference to the creation of this world and >all that existed in it before the fall of Adam into in. Why try to distort >and reshape the narrative of Gods word as given to man?
All your distortions are correctly described here. This is from the NKJV >version and the words that are capitalized are quotes from the OT from >various books such as Psalms, Isaiah, etc.
So read this very carefully, and may the LORD open your eyes to see the >irrefutable truth of God,
and Jesus as God before the creations of this
world. And it explains also why it was that he came here to die as a Human. >As well as why Born Again people who walk in the spirit are one with Jesus. >As Jesus is One the His Father.
Heb 2:5 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in >subjection to angels.
Heb 2:6 But one testified in a certain place, saying: "WHAT IS MAN THAT YOU >ARE MINDFUL OF HIM, OR THE SON OF MAN THAT YOU TAKE CARE OF HIM?
Heb 2:7 YOU HAVE MADE HIM A LITTLE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS; YOU HAVE CROWNED >HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR, AND SET HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS.
Heb 2:8 YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET." For in that He >put all in subjection under him, He left nothingthat is not put under him. >But now we do not yet see all things put under him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for >the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of >God, might taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are >all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their >salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 2:11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are >all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 2:12 saying: "I WILL DECLARE YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN; IN THE MIDST OF >THE ASSEMBLY I WILL SING PRAISE TO YOU.o
Heb 2:13 And again: "I WILL PUT MY TRUST IN HIM." And again: "HERE AM I AND >THE CHILDREN WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN ME.o
Heb 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He >Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him >who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
Heb 2:15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime >subject to bondage.
Heb 2:16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to >the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made likeHis brethren, that He >might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to >make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to >aid those who are tempted.
Even in the NWT I am sure it references the fact that Jesus desired for his >disciples to see him with the Glory that was His before he was born as a man. >oFormer GLORYo.
"In the beginning"
Jesus had a beginning. (John 1:1; Col 1:15) Also:
-- New King James
Proverbs 8:30 Then I was beside Him, as a master craftsman; and I was
daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him,
But let's ASSUME for the moment that John 1:1 in the KJV is true. Then
it contradicts MANY other Scriptures: Besides the one listed below:
"I was beside Him". He wasn't beside himself. Two persons there.
Contradiction #1.
Also
-- King James
Proverbs 8:22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way,
before his works of old.
The beginning of His works of old, was the Word. Contradiction #2.
But God always was: It is Jesus who had a beginning.
-- King James
Psalms 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou
hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to
everlasting, thou art God.
Jesus died and was resurrected. God never died and has been alive from
"everlasting to everlasting." Contradiction
#3
Did the NWT add the indefinte pronoun "a" for clarity? Yes:
(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was a god. (NWT)
At John 1:1 did the KJV also add any words not in the original? YES.
They added "the": "In THE beginning"
There is no "the" in the original Greek. The original actually starts
out:
"in beginning". Not "in THE beginning".
Also, every other translation I have seen, adds the word "the" there,
which is not in the original.
-- New King James
Luke 18:19 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one
is good but One, that is, God. Contradiction #4
-- American Standard
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the
angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only. Contradiction
#5
The KJV chopped out, "neither the Son". In the original Greek it says:
"nor the son". (Kingdom interlinear)
-- New King James
1 John 4:12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another,
God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. Contradiction
#6.
Yet people saw Jesus. And Jesus said those who have seen me have seen
the Father. But did they literly see the Father?
No. Notice:
- New King James
John 6:46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from
God; He has seen the Father.
Thus Jesus meant God's attributes. Contradiction #7
So if adding a word for clarity is so wrong, then MOST ALL
TRANSLATIONS ARE ALL WRONG. Notice:
"There are two issues affecting the translating of the verse, 1)
theology and 2) proper application of grammatical rules. The commonly
held theology that Jesus is God may lead one to believe that the
proper way to render the verse is the traditional rendering.[27] The
opposing theology that Jesus is subordinate to God as his Chief agent
may lead to the conclusion that "... a god" or "... divine" is the
proper rendering.[28] This highlights the importance of understanding
and applying the proper grammatical rules to any translation to avoid
bias."
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_1:1)
"Translations by James Moffatt, Edgar J. Goodspeed and Hugh J.
Schonfield render part of the verse as "...the Word [Logos] was
divine"."
"An Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible commentary notes:
This second theos could also be translated 'divine' as the
construction indicates "a qualitative sense for theos"."
(https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/55611-christ-divinity-explained-in-jo
hn-11c/)
"In a 1973 Journal of Biblical Literature article, Philip B. Harner,
Professor Emeritus of Religion at Heidelberg College, claimed that the
traditional translation of John 1:1c ("and the Word was God") is
incorrect. He endorses the New English Bible translation of John 1:1c,
"and what God was, the Word was."[50] However, Harner's claim has been
criticized.[51] Harner says:"
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_1:1
Notice these other translations:
"and the Word was a god" u Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in an
Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome's New
Translation: With a Corrected Text, London. [Bible Scholar]
1822: "and the Word was a god" u The New Testament in Greek and
English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)
[theologian]
1829: "and the Word was a god" u The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel
History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829)
[probably a theologian]
1863: "and the Word was a god" u A Literal Translation of the New
Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)
[Bible Scholar]
1864: "and a god was the Word" u The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin
Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)
[Bible Scholar]
1879: "and the Word was a god" u Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J.
Becker, 1979) [probably a theologian]
1885: "and the Word was a god" u Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible
(R. Young, 1885) [probably a theologian]
1924: "the Logos was divine" u The Bible: James Moffatt Translation,
by James Moffatt.[18] [[Bible scholar]]
1935: "and the Word was divine" u The Bible: An American Translation,
by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago.[19] [[Bible
Scholar]]
1955: "so the Word was divine" u The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh
J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.[20] [[Bible scholar]]
1958: "and the Word was a god" u The New Testament of Our Lord and
Saviour Jesus Anointed (J. L. Tomanec, 1958); [Bible scholar]
1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" u Das Evangelium
nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, G%ttingen, Germany [theologian]
1985: "So the Word was divine" - The Original New Testament, by Hugh
J. Schonfield.[22] [[Bible Scholar]]
2017: "and the Logos was god" - The New Testament: A Translation, by
David Bentley Hart.[25] [[theologian]]
So in summary. John 1:1 is controvertible at best. The definite
article "the" has been inserted there in order to read better in
English.
Also, because of the Greek grammar there, many Bible say "a God"
instead of just "God". But if you believe the latter one, then you
would have to explain all the contradictions that would cause. Such as
Paul's statement at 1 Cor 11:3,
- King James
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every
man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of
Christ is God.
"SPECIAL CAMPAIGN
How War and Violent Conflict Affect Us All
War and violent conflict are both destructive and costly. Consider
some examples.
Learn More"See jw.org (9/17/2025)
On Wed, 17 Sep 2025 23:59:34 -0700, None<none@none.non> wrote:
On Sep 17, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<ku7lck9mfkbo5lnkgfuaacjgtlcogb9ikf@4ax.com>):
John 1:1 supplement
(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was a god. (NWT)
-- King James
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
This is not speaking of Jesus being born as a human, not at all.
This is speaking of Jesus the moment he was created. (Col 1:15)
It IS
speaking of the beginning direct reference to the creation of this world and
all that existed in it before the fall of Adam into in. Why try to distort and reshape the narrative of Gods word as given to man?
Yes, why do others do that?
All your distortions are correctly described here. This is from the NKJV version and the words that are capitalized are quotes from the OT from various books such as Psalms, Isaiah, etc.
So read this very carefully, and may the LORD open your eyes to see the irrefutable truth of God,
I bounce that statement back to you. You are asking me to deny Bible
truths. I just can't do it. I have researched my beliefs thoroughly,
and are at one with me.
Recall, God's adversary is trying to make God a liar. Here is just one example of many. Grab your Bible and look up Ex 6:3. It should read:
"I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but
by my name the Lord I did not make myself known to them." (ESV)
Lord is a title not a name. That just made God a liar. Those
translators should be ashamed of themselves. Here is what it should
be:
-- King James
Exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob,
by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to
them."
and Jesus as God before the creations of this
world. And it explains also why it was that he came here to die as a Human. As well as why Born Again people who walk in the spirit are one with Jesus. As Jesus is One the His Father.
And Jesus is at ONE with all his disciples as well as God. THEY ARE
ALL ONE. (John 17:21,22)
Heb 2:5 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels.
Heb 2:6 But one testified in a certain place, saying: "WHAT IS MAN THAT YOU ARE MINDFUL OF HIM, OR THE SON OF MAN THAT YOU TAKE CARE OF HIM?
Heb 2:7 YOU HAVE MADE HIM A LITTLE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS; YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR, AND SET HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS.
Heb 2:8 YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET." For in that He
put all in subjection under him, He left nothingthat is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of
God, might taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are
all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 2:11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 2:12 saying: "I WILL DECLARE YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN; IN THE MIDST OF THE ASSEMBLY I WILL SING PRAISE TO YOU.rCY
Heb 2:13 And again: "I WILL PUT MY TRUST IN HIM." And again: "HERE AM I AND THE CHILDREN WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN ME.rCY
Heb 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him
who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
Heb 2:15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime
subject to bondage.
Heb 2:16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made likeHis brethren, that He
might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to
make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Agreed.
Even in the NWT I am sure it references the fact that Jesus desired for his disciples to see him with the Glory that was His before he was born as a Man. rCLFormer GLORYrCY.
Yes, when he was created, he was immersed in glory. And after he was resurrected by God, he was given more glory while in Heaven. But even
while in Heaven, he is still in subjection to God. (1 Cor 11:3)
Sincerely JamesThe person/s that shot Charlie Kirk were just as sincere as you perhaps more so.
This is speaking of Jesus the moment he was created. (Col 1:15)
Tue, 23 Sep 2025 13:01:12 -0400
<qhi5dkps0h97k5c45cdcjlqk3qep1um6ua@4ax.com>
"Sincerely", "soley from the Bible" and
"Honestly is my middle name"
James <zebrabible@proton.me> wrote:
========================================
This is speaking of Jesus the moment he was created. (Col 1:15)
Colossians 1:15 does not teach that Jesus was created. The verse says:
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation" >(Colossians 1:15, ESV).
The word "firstborn" (Greek: *pr?totokos*) does not mean "first
created." Scripture distinguishes between *firstborn* (*pr?totokos*) and >*first created* (*pr?toktistos*). Paul could have used *pr?toktistos* if
he intended to say Christ was created, but he did not. Instead,
*firstborn* carries the meaning of rank, preeminence, and inheritance >rights.
For example:
* Israel is called God's "firstborn son" (Exodus 4:22), though other
nations existed before them.
* David is called "the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth" >(Psalm 89:27), though he was the youngest son in his family.
Paul immediately explains what he means by "firstborn":
"For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and >invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authoritiesuall
things were created through him and for him" (Colossians 1:16, ESV).
If Jesus were created, then He could not be the Creator of "all things."
Yet Paul explicitly states that *all* things were created through Him
and for Him. John affirms the same truth:
"All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing
made that was made" (John 1:3, ESV).
This makes an airtight case: if He created all that was ever created, He >Himself cannot belong in the category of "created." Instead, He belongs
in the category of the eternal Creator.
----- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (a), and God
raised Him from the dead?
That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death >penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John >2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your >sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.
On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).
https://christrose.news/salvation
To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like >Thunderbird:
https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
On Wed, 17 Sep 2025 23:59:34 -0700, None<none@none.non> wrote:
On Sep 17, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<ku7lck9mfkbo5lnkgfuaacjgtlcogb9ikf@4ax.com>):
John 1:1 supplement
(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was a god. (NWT)
-- King James
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
This is not speaking of Jesus being born as a human, not at all.
This is speaking of Jesus the moment he was created. (Col 1:15)
On Sep 23, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote >(Message-ID:<qhi5dkps0h97k5c45cdcjlqk3qep1um6ua@4ax.com>):
On Wed, 17 Sep 2025 23:59:34 -0700, None<none@none.non> wrote:
On Sep 17, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote
(Message-ID:<ku7lck9mfkbo5lnkgfuaacjgtlcogb9ikf@4ax.com>):
John 1:1 supplement
(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was a god. (NWT)
-- King James
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
This is not speaking of Jesus being born as a human, not at all.
This is speaking of Jesus the moment he was created. (Col 1:15)
I replied to all your lies which includes all your half truths in another NG.
If your JW wife were to commit adultery with another man, but tell you the >whole time she did it, she was thinking of you, and doing with him what she >did for you, and so that was her AtruthA according the the JW dogma of
what truth is, would you accept that as truth also and go along with if for >the foreseeable future, when she then transfer that truth for a AnewerA >truth?
Of such thinking is the JW towards God.--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
As for a newer truth, the true religion continues upgrades until the
end.
On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 18:51:31 -0700, None<none@none.non> wrote:
On Sep 23, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<qhi5dkps0h97k5c45cdcjlqk3qep1um6ua@4ax.com>):
On Wed, 17 Sep 2025 23:59:34 -0700, None<none@none.non> wrote:
On Sep 17, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<ku7lck9mfkbo5lnkgfuaacjgtlcogb9ikf@4ax.com>):
John 1:1 supplement
(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. (NWT)
-- King James
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
This is not speaking of Jesus being born as a human, not at all.
This is speaking of Jesus the moment he was created. (Col 1:15)
I replied to all your lies which includes all your half truths in another NG.
This liar always gives you full Bible truths. (Ro 10:14,15)
If your JW wife were to commit adultery with another man, but tell you the whole time she did it, she was thinking of you, and doing with him what she did for you, and so that was her rCOtruthrCO according the the JW dogma of what truth is, would you accept that as truth also and go along with if for the foreseeable future, when she then transfer that truth for a rCOnewerrCO truth?
Yes, I would probably believe her, but not go along with it. Adultery
is a sin. (James 2:11)
As for a newer truth, the true religion continues upgrades until the end.
As Proverbs says about Bible truth:
-- King James
Proverbs 4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that
shineth more and more unto the perfect day.
A light that starts out dim, but keeps getting brighter and brighter,
shows a change taking place. And that is what the JW organization
does.
Sincerely James
Of such thinking is the JW towards God.