From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Sat, 06 Sep 2025 10:34:49 -0700, None <none@none.non> wrote:

On Sep 6, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote >(Message-ID:<nagobk1i81nvcq8g1hmbq4lmo1ijdugnv9@4ax.com>):

On Thu, 04 Sep 2025 21:59:08 -0700, Robert<.robert@mu.way> wrote:

On Sep 4, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote
(Message-ID:<bjgjbklonls99ukdl09gdn7bi0qal4mmg6@4ax.com>):

Tithing. Compulsory?

Some churches indicate that tithing is a command. A common amount is
10% of your income. But no all people can't afford that. They need
every penny just to get by. So does God condemn them?

NO! God is a God of love. (1 John 4:8) He would never punish a person
for not contributing.

oWill a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we
robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye >> > have
robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the
storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith,
saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and >> > pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive
it.o (Mal 3:8-10)

Yes, but the Mosaic Laws were Fulfilled with Jesus' death. That
Scripture in Mal 3:8-10 does not apply to Christians.

The curse of the laws were removed. The laws are still there for our >instruction/learning and understanding. Jesus said that anyone who takes away >of marking in the law is not of him. That they have not passed away.

A correction. (see below)

Actually, the whole Mosaic laws was no longer binding upon God's
servants:

Col 2:14

"having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was
against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it
to the cross." (NIV)

In the Bible, remember the husband and wife that contributed land to
Christian congregation, and later changed their mind and took it back?
They were told that the land was theirs and they didn't have to
contribute it. But when they did, it was no longer theirs. So they
played false to the Holy Spirit and paid with their lives.

You got it wrong. They did not take it back. They sold the land and then lied >to the Church and the Holy Spirit about the part of the money they withheld >when they presented their gift to the Lord. It also had nothing to do with >tithing, but was an offering. You might want to read a proper bible and see >the truth and the fact that they lied.

My Bible says the same thing. I was lazy and didn't look it up again.
So I recited it from memory. Thanks for the correction.

Even when they sold the land, it was still all their money. They must
have promised it all.

So et me rephrase it. God will never punish a person who does what he
can for contributions. Now if a millionaire gave just $1.00 EACH
month, it is up to God how to deal with him. I don't know.

When you rephrase a lie, it remains a lie, for your intent, and decent remain >in your heart.

I don't lie. See the definition of a lie. It must be said to knowingly
deceive. I never try to deceive anyone.

If you want liars, look at many Bible translators. They make God out
to be a liar. They have removed the Tetragrammaton in its almost 7000
times. That's around 7000 errors before you even turn the first page.

This is what Yehovah spoke yet you say he does not do such things. Notice >> > his promises to those that do his will. Then notice the similarity in the NT
Below.

Notice Deut 14:22:

- New Living Translation
Deuteronomy 14:22 "You must set aside a tithe of your crops-one-tenth
of all the crops you harvest each year.

But are the churches right. Must we at least give 10% of our income to >> > > the church? They wish so. But see for yourself.

-- New King James
2 Corinthians 9:7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart,
not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

Yes, the Mosaic Laws were done away with at Christ's death. We are no
longer under the 10% rule. Any church that says we must contribute at
least 10%, is misleading their flock.

oBut this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and >> > he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according
as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of
necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace
abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may
abound to every good work: (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he >> > hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. Now he that >> > ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply
your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;) Being
enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us
thanksgiving to God. For the administration of this service not only
supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings
unto God;o (2Co 9:6-12)

Yep, good Scripture.

All scripture is good and serves the purposes of God for our benefits, >including the warnings of an eternity of torment for the wicked. And this >speaks of how a believer lives, and their rewards both in this life and the >next.

Love does NOT torture anyone or anything. And God IS love. (1 John
4:8)

Why is this not a focal point in your life? You miss out because you believe >not. This speaks of supporting those that lead you and minister unto you in >the things of the Lord Jesus Christ. For these things are of God. They bring >Joy to the hearts of the Born Again Believer.

A person that returns unto God what was His in the first place which He gave
to you for your daily needs. Notice. Those that withhold and sows sparingly
reaps sparingly. He also loves a cheerful give with offerings also.
uncheerful givers might as well keep their monies.

What are you talking about. I thought I made it clear. You don't HAVE
TO give 10%. I give what is in my heart so as to be a "cheerful
giver". Just like Paul wrote.

I am talking about understanding the will of God, I knew some people who gave >90% of their earnings to God. There is no limitations, and those that sow >sparingly will reap in like manner. That is why so many remain poor, poor in >wealth, in spirit an in the blessings of God.

The Bible says to give willingly, with what is in your heart.

Of course this teaching is for true believers in Jesus, Yet God promises >> > rewards in this life for anyone who is charitable with the poor and needy for
they are doing the work of God, and So God rewards them in this life, and it
has no effect on the after life as they are not his children.

A person cannot buy his way to God. You give what you can, like the
widow who contributed just pennies, but Jesus praised her for giving
all she had.

Notice, she gave ALL that she had. Not 10%. People give to the Lord out of >the gratitude of their heart.
Now much do you care about Jesus, Lord and Saviour?

I follow the Scriptures.

Sincerely James
"SPECIAL CAMPAIGN
Finding Peace Despite War and Violent Conflict
The Bible is helping those affected by war in practical ways now.
See How". See jw.org (9/25/2025)

Sincerely James
"SPECIAL CAMPAIGN
How War and Violent Conflict Affect Us All
War and violent conflict are both destructive and costly. Consider
some examples."
See jw.org (9/6/2025)

Sincerely James

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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Sep 26, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<a5dddk5csuqnbbjs3e6qetrfsc0ubs5ubd@4ax.com>):

On Sat, 06 Sep 2025 10:34:49 -0700, None<none@none.non> wrote:

On Sep 6, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<nagobk1i81nvcq8g1hmbq4lmo1ijdugnv9@4ax.com>):

On Thu, 04 Sep 2025 21:59:08 -0700, Robert<.robert@mu.way> wrote:

On Sep 4, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<bjgjbklonls99ukdl09gdn7bi0qal4mmg6@4ax.com>):

Tithing. Compulsory?

Some churches indicate that tithing is a command. A common amount is 10% of your income. But no all people can't afford that. They need every penny just to get by. So does God condemn them?

NO! God is a God of love. (1 John 4:8) He would never punish a person for not contributing.

rCLWill a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we
robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye
have
robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith,
saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and
pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.rCY (Mal 3:8-10)

Yes, but the Mosaic Laws were Fulfilled with Jesus' death. That
Scripture in Mal 3:8-10 does not apply to Christians.

The curse of the laws were removed. The laws are still there for our instruction/learning and understanding. Jesus said that anyone who takes away of marking in the law is not of him. That they have not passed away.

A correction. (see below)

Actually, the whole Mosaic laws was no longer binding upon God's
servants:

Col 2:14

"having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was
against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it
to the cross." (NIV)

Col 2:14 He has blotted out the note of debt against us with the decrees of our sins, which was contrary to us; and He has taken it away, having nailed
it to the cross.

It was our sin that was nailed to the cross. Jesus said,

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or
one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them,the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceedthe righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into
the kingdom of heaven.

The Law Covenant was between God and the Jew, not the Gentile.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without
law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers
of the law shall be justified.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing
or else excusing one another;)

Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

In the Bible, remember the husband and wife that contributed land to Christian congregation, and later changed their mind and took it back? They were told that the land was theirs and they didn't have to contribute it. But when they did, it was no longer theirs. So they
played false to the Holy Spirit and paid with their lives.

You got it wrong. They did not take it back. They sold the land and then lied
to the Church and the Holy Spirit about the part of the money they withheld when they presented their gift to the Lord. It also had nothing to do with tithing, but was an offering. You might want to read a proper bible and see the truth and the fact that they lied.

My Bible says the same thing. I was lazy and didn't look it up again.
So I recited it from memory. Thanks for the correction.

Even when they sold the land, it was still all their money. They must
have promised it all.

You still got it wrong. They did not have to give it all, just give what they felt from the heart without lying about it. The deceived all by saying that the donated the money from the land, as if it were all of the money.

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Act 5:8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

V4 two different version which may clarify the scripture to you.

(AFV)Before it was sold, was it not yours? And after you sold it, was it not in your own authority? Why did you contrive this thing in your heart? You
have not lied to men, but to God.rCY

(AMPC)As long as it remained unsold, was it not still your own? And [even] after it was sold, was not [the money] at your disposal and under your control? Why then, is it that you have proposed and purposed in your heart to do this thing? [How could you have the heart to do such a deed?] You have not [simply] lied to men [playing false and showing yourself utterly deceitful] but to God.

So et me rephrase it. God will never punish a person who does what he
can for contributions. Now if a millionaire gave just $1.00 EACH
month, it is up to God how to deal with him. I don't know.

When you rephrase a lie, it remains a lie, for your intent, and decent remain in your heart.

I don't lie. See the definition of a lie. It must be said to knowingly deceive. I never try to deceive anyone.

Yes, you do. Many have shown you the scripture along with the understanding, even adding the root greek of the scripture and all that it meant. Yet you deny all of it, knowingly, and repost your mantra that contains a sliver of the truth and present it as the whole truth thus intentionally deceiving others as well as you were given to rCLbelieve a LierCY.

And I am speaking here not of the spiritual understandings, but the literal understandings of the languages involved which anyone who had any depth of language would realize that you intentionally and purposely ignore the full truth in order to create a narrative that justifies your sins. Just like so many powerful and influential Democrats do for the last 20 years, along with their cohorts.

If you want liars, look at many Bible translators. They make God out
to be a liar. They have removed the Tetragrammaton in its almost 7000
times. That's around 7000 errors before you even turn the first page.

I have shown you several times that the basis of that argument is flawed, totally flawed, yet you persist in your mantra which even the NWT and the JW have also erred according to your precept here.

Why do I say this? Again. 300 years before Christ the Jewish priests translated the OT into Greek. The same Greek language as was spoken in the days of Jesus, and the NT. So they, having full familiarity of both languages of that day would know best what was the proper Greek words and which were not.

You were also given the reasons as to why the Greek Language translation was needed then.

Now, on a personal note, I have stated fro decades that the original Hebrew was best, and especially the Hebrew texts older than 300 BC As it defined things with far better specificity, not only in regards to all the Names of the most High God, but also as to what sin is, again with specificity. Which adds greatly to the understanding ob men.

Sadly you understand none of that.

This is what Yehovah spoke yet you say he does not do such things. Notice
his promises to those that do his will. Then notice the similarity in the
NT
Below.

Notice Deut 14:22:

- New Living Translation
Deuteronomy 14:22 "You must set aside a tithe of your crops-one-tenth of all the crops you harvest each year.

But are the churches right. Must we at least give 10% of our income to
the church? They wish so. But see for yourself.

-- New King James
2 Corinthians 9:7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

Yes, the Mosaic Laws were done away with at Christ's death. We are no longer under the 10% rule. Any church that says we must contribute at least 10%, is misleading their flock.

rCLBut this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and
he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according
as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace
abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things,
may
abound to every good work: (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he
hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. Now he that
ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply
your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;) Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God. For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings
unto God;rCY (2Co 9:6-12)

Yep, good Scripture.

All scripture is good and serves the purposes of God for our benefits, including the warnings of an eternity of torment for the wicked. And this speaks of how a believer lives, and their rewards both in this life and the next.

Love does NOT torture anyone or anything. And God IS love. (1 John
4:8)

Deu 12:31Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thyGod: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their
sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

Deu 16:22Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the LORD thy God hateth.

Amo 6:8The Lord GOD hath sworn by himself, saith the LORD the God of hosts, I abhor the excellency of Jacob, and hate his palaces: therefore will I deliver up the city with all that is therein.

Mal 2:16For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts:
therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.

Rom 12:9Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave
to that which is good.

Rom 13:4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

I heartily recommend that you get to know God and dwell not in half truths
and false dogmas, thus deceiving yourselves and end up in the pit and from their to the Judgment seat of God/Jesus, and from their into the eternal lake of Fire and great torment everlasting.

Why is this not a focal point in your life? You miss out because you believe
not. This speaks of supporting those that lead you and minister unto you in the things of the Lord Jesus Christ. For these things are of God. They bring
Joy to the hearts of the Born Again Believer.

A person that returns unto God what was His in the first place which He gave
to you for your daily needs. Notice. Those that withhold and sows sparingly
reaps sparingly. He also loves a cheerful give with offerings also. uncheerful givers might as well keep their monies.

What are you talking about. I thought I made it clear. You don't HAVE
TO give 10%. I give what is in my heart so as to be a "cheerful
giver". Just like Paul wrote.

I am talking about understanding the will of God, I knew some people who gave
90% of their earnings to God. There is no limitations, and those that sow sparingly will reap in like manner. That is why so many remain poor, poor in
wealth, in spirit an in the blessings of God.

The Bible says to give willingly, with what is in your heart.

As to offerings, for sure. If you chose to tithe, then that is 10% by definition.
Did you even comprehend what you replied too?

Of course this teaching is for true believers in Jesus, Yet God promises
rewards in this life for anyone who is charitable with the poor and needy
for
they are doing the work of God, and So God rewards them in this life, and
it
has no effect on the after life as they are not his children.

A person cannot buy his way to God. You give what you can, like the
widow who contributed just pennies, but Jesus praised her for giving
all she had.

Notice, she gave ALL that she had. Not 10%. People give to the Lord out of the gratitude of their heart.
Now much do you care about Jesus, Lord and Saviour?

I follow the Scriptures.

By that do you mean that you walk around always holding the scriptures in front of you?
Since you do not believe that Jesus IS GOD. And never have since becoming a JW.
Before that you did believe he was an then turned around and denied him
before all men.

Sincerely James

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