From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 16:26:38 -0400
James <zebra2@windstream.net> wrote:

Many pre-Christian nations used forms of crosses in their idolatrous
worship. From the "Encyclopedia Britannica (1946), Vol. 6, p. 753,

"Various objects, dating from periods long anterior to the Christian
era, have been found, marked with crosses of different designs, in
almost every part of the old world. India, Syria, Persia and Egypt
have all yielded numberless examples . . . The use of the cross as a religious symbol in pre-Christian times and among non-Christian
peoples may probably be regarded as almost universal, and in very many
cases it was connected with some form of nature worship."

Thus the cross as we know it has its roots in idolatrous
worship.Something God would not approve of.Or as God says,

"and quit touching the unclean thingrCO" (2 Cor 6:17)

As usual, you take the scripture out of context. The unclean thing is
idols. You are calling the cross of Jesus Christ an unclean thing. You
are calling the Lamb of God a polluted sacrifice. Your religion denies
the power of the Lamb and replaces it with dogma and human tradition.
"I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing
unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean,
to him it is unclean."

Many people venerate the ''cross". Some kiss it, others pray before
it. This would make it an object of idolatry. I Cor 10:14 says,

Pagans considered Christian worship of a crucified man an object of
ridicule. Pagans did not worship men who were crucified, since in the
pagan world crucifixion was the most cursed death. Your argument is
nonsense and holds zero quarts of water.
The cross was the chief symbol of ancient pagan rulers who ruled the
world order. That is exactly why God the Father chose to have Jesus
crucified. By crucifying the Son of the Only God on a cross, all the
pagan gods of the rulers were being mocked and made a spectacle:
"... nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and
powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."
Satan, the accuser, is the world order and its rulers; those in
franchise to the empire. By dying on a cross, Jesus was mocking their
symbol of power, and claiming all their power for himself.
Jehovah refers to this many times in the old testament, how he will
mock the gods of the world rulers of nations. His greatest taunt to
them was Jesus, the true Son of God hanging on a cross. Even as he was
dying on the cross, Jesus talked about this in his agony:
Psalm 22: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so
far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? [...] For dogs
have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they
pierced my hands and my feet. [...] Deliver my soul from the sword; my
darling from the power of the dog. [...] For the kingdom is the LORD's:
and he is the governor among the nations."
Jesus was quoting this Psalm, about the power of the dog or jackal (the
pagan world order of government). By taking away the sin of the world
on their emblem of power, both Jehovah and Jesus were mocking the
pagans. They were in effect saying that the very instrument of pagan
political power and cruelty will be the instrument used to destroy their
power and all of their false gods.
The pagans were sacrificing cows, sheep, goats, horses, and pigs long
before Abraham was even born. Yet God commanded Abraham, the Hebrews,
and Israel to sacrifice animals to Him. Shouldn't Abraham and Israel
have been good Jehovah's witnesses and said, "Not so, Lord, the pagans
practice ritual sacrifice so we can't do that!"
The cherubim on the ark of the covenant mercy seat were similar to
those used in the throne rooms and tombs of pagan Egyptians. Was God
guilty of using a pagan symbol in the design of the ark?
Gold and silver and brass and other metals were used by the pagans to
symbolize alchemical power of their gods and demons. yet God commanded
the use of these metals in the building of the tabernacle and temples.
The pagans used sacred cups, goblets, bowls, and pitchers in their
libations to their pagan gods. Along comes Jehovah and commands Israel
to do the same in their temple and at their altars. Does this mean God
is guilty of using a pagan practice?
The serpent was also a pagan symbol. Yet God commanded Moses to stand
up a brass serpent across a pole for the healing of those bitten by the
pagan serpents.
The serpent and shepherd staff were also pagan symbols of magic in
Egypt. Yet God commanded Moses to take a staff, and turn it into a
serpent, which gobbled up the serpents of the magicians. This again was
God appropriating the symbols of the pagans to mock them.
The son of Zeus was also a pagan symbol long before the time of Christ.
Yet the true God sent his own Son to mock the son of Zeus and make a
spectacle of the fake pagan religions by the sacrifice of the cross.
Sodomites today use the rainbow as the symbol of their pagan holy war
against Christian chastity. Yet originally the rainbow is a symbol of
God's covenant with Noah. Does using a rainbow make you a sodomite?
Then how does using a cross make you a pagan idolator? It doesn't,
unless you are kissing and slobbering on the thing. Merely displaying
it or wearing it indicates nothing.
Thus your argument, "the cross was a pagan symbol" proves nothing. It
does not support your false definition for "stauros." Everyone in the
ancient world understood a crucifixion "stauros" to be a post with a
crossbeam. The fact that the Romans called this method of execution,
"crucify" shows you right there the shape of the "stauros" they
were using. "Crucify" means to nail to a CROSS.
If there was no crossbeam, they instead used the words,
"polos", "stoikima", "passalos", etc. The Greek "stauros" or "stavros"
is related to the English and Nordic, "stave", or, "staff" and usually
refers to a upright stake of wood with a cross-brace. The idea of a
cross-beam was inherent in this word root before it even became a Greek
word. Even an ancient shepherd's staff was often formed from a staff
with a t-cross or y-cross at the top, and this too was called a staff
or stavros.
Like I said before: Pagans believe that water is wet. Therefore to be a
true Christian, you should deny the wetness of water. This is the logic
of the Watchtower Society in its false doctrine denying the cross of
Jesus Christ.
"I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing
unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean,
to him it is unclean."
"Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world,
why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
(Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the
using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?"
Finally, you have failed to ask the most pertinent question: where did
the pagans get the symbol of the cross from?
The cross originally represented the four corners of the earth beneath
the turning of the zodiac. The center of the cross is the center of the
world around which all the ages turn. It originally represented God's sovereignty over the times and seasons of the ages of creation, before
the pagan religions appropriated it for themselves. By appropriating
the cross, the pagan nobility were claiming God's sovereignty for
themselves:
"He (the antichrist) thinketh to change times and seasons ..."
The cross originally was a holy symbol at the start of creation that was
used in a polluted way by Nimrod's rebels. God merely took back what was
His to begin with. He used Jesus to make an open show of it. This is
why the pagan liberals hate Christians. The pagan libertines are Satan's children, raised up to hate that which is holy, and to consider filthy
things as holy things. Modern Christians are ensnared as though dead in
the liberalized Church system, but they will one day be freed by God.
--
NightBulb | https://nightbulb.net | Flip the night switch.
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 18:45:58 -0500, "NightBulb.net"
<nospam@nightbulb.net> wrote:

On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 16:26:38 -0400
James <zebra2@windstream.net> wrote:

Many pre-Christian nations used forms of crosses in their idolatrous
worship. From the "Encyclopedia Britannica (1946), Vol. 6, p. 753,

"Various objects, dating from periods long anterior to the Christian
era, have been found, marked with crosses of different designs, in
almost every part of the old world. India, Syria, Persia and Egypt
have all yielded numberless examples . . . The use of the cross as a
religious symbol in pre-Christian times and among non-Christian
peoples may probably be regarded as almost universal, and in very many
cases it was connected with some form of nature worship."

Thus the cross as we know it has its roots in idolatrous
worship.Something God would not approve of.Or as God says,

"and quit touching the unclean thingA" (2 Cor 6:17)

As usual, you take the scripture out of context. The unclean thing is
idols. You are calling the cross of Jesus Christ an unclean thing. You
are calling the Lamb of God a polluted sacrifice. Your religion denies
the power of the Lamb and replaces it with dogma and human tradition.

Let me try to make corrections to your errors.

Unclean things can be anything. Even a woman menstruating. So its not
just limited to idols.

A cross is an unclean thing because the pagan uses of it in religious ceremonies. The Bible says the death instrument of Jesus was a stake
not a cross. The Greek word the Bible used was "stauros", which in the
first century meant an upright stake or pole. Look it up!

Jesus ransom sacrifice was not polluted. It was what humans perfectly
needed to save them.

JW's know Jesus had many powers given to him by God.

"I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing
unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean,
to him it is unclean."

During the Mosaic Laws, a menstruating woman was unclean. It likely
was practiced by non=Christian Jews at Paul's time also.

Many people venerate the ''cross". Some kiss it, others pray before
it. This would make it an object of idolatry. I Cor 10:14 says,

Pagans considered Christian worship of a crucified man an object of
ridicule. Pagans did not worship men who were crucified, since in the
pagan world crucifixion was the most cursed death. Your argument is
nonsense and holds zero quarts of water.

True it doesn't hold any water, but rather Bible truths. (2 Tim 3:16)

The cross was the chief symbol of ancient pagan rulers who ruled the
world order. That is exactly why God the Father chose to have Jesus >crucified. By crucifying the Son of the Only God on a cross, all the
pagan gods of the rulers were being mocked and made a spectacle:

Your translation and many others have changed the word of God. The
"cross" of Jesus was the Greek "stauros", WHICH DID NOT MEAN A CROSS
IN THE FIRST CENDTURY.

Since Jesus died on a stake, people who wear crosses and churches that
display them, are showing a religious Pagan idol.

"... nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and
powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

Cross = Greek "stauros".

Satan, the accuser, is the world order and its rulers; those in
franchise to the empire. By dying on a cross, Jesus was mocking their
symbol of power, and claiming all their power for himself.

Cross = Greek "stauros".

Jehovah refers to this many times in the old testament, how he will
mock the gods of the world rulers of nations. His greatest taunt to
them was Jesus, the true Son of God hanging on a cross. Even as he was
dying on the cross, Jesus talked about this in his agony:

Psalm 22: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so
far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? [...] For dogs
have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they
pierced my hands and my feet. [...] Deliver my soul from the sword; my >darling from the power of the dog. [...] For the kingdom is the LORD's:
and he is the governor among the nations."

Cross = Greek "stauros".

Jesus was quoting this Psalm, about the power of the dog or jackal (the
pagan world order of government). By taking away the sin of the world
on their emblem of power, both Jehovah and Jesus were mocking the
pagans. They were in effect saying that the very instrument of pagan >political power and cruelty will be the instrument used to destroy their >power and all of their false gods.

The pagans were sacrificing cows, sheep, goats, horses, and pigs long
before Abraham was even born. Yet God commanded Abraham, the Hebrews,
and Israel to sacrifice animals to Him. Shouldn't Abraham and Israel
have been good Jehovah's witnesses and said, "Not so, Lord, the pagans >practice ritual sacrifice so we can't do that!"

God's sacrifices were different from that of the pagans. God's
sacrifices foretold the sacrifice of his beloved son Jesus. (Ga
3:19,24)

The cherubim on the ark of the covenant mercy seat were similar to
those used in the throne rooms and tombs of pagan Egyptians. Was God
guilty of using a pagan symbol in the design of the ark?

There was a big difference between the two. The pagans worship those
idols . God's servants did not worship the angel symbols on the ark .
They were forbidden.

Gold and silver and brass and other metals were used by the pagans to >symbolize alchemical power of their gods and demons. yet God commanded
the use of these metals in the building of the tabernacle and temples.

Again, the pagans worshipped their idols of gold and silver.
God's people did, not.

The pagans used sacred cups, goblets, bowls, and pitchers in their
libations to their pagan gods. Along comes Jehovah and commands Israel
to do the same in their temple and at their altars. Does this mean God
is guilty of using a pagan practice?

You seem to be confused and can carry this to extremes. For example,
pagans planted crops and ate them. The Israelites did the same. Did
that make them pagans?

The pagans cut down trees and made furniture. So did the Israelites.
Did that make them pagans?

Then main difference between the pagans and God's servants, was that
the pagans used such things as part of idol worship. God's servants
only worshipped Jehovah God.

The serpent was also a pagan symbol. Yet God commanded Moses to stand
up a brass serpent across a pole for the healing of those bitten by the
pagan serpents.

See above

The serpent and shepherd staff were also pagan symbols of magic in
Egypt. Yet God commanded Moses to take a staff, and turn it into a
serpent, which gobbled up the serpents of the magicians. This again was
God appropriating the symbols of the pagans to mock them.

See above

The son of Zeus was also a pagan symbol long before the time of Christ.
Yet the true God sent his own Son to mock the son of Zeus and make a >spectacle of the fake pagan religions by the sacrifice of the cross.

See above

Sodomites today use the rainbow as the symbol of their pagan holy war
against Christian chastity. Yet originally the rainbow is a symbol of
God's covenant with Noah. Does using a rainbow make you a sodomite?

No more than using clouds.

Then how does using a cross make you a pagan idolator? It doesn't,
unless you are kissing and slobbering on the thing. Merely displaying
it or wearing it indicates nothing.

Paul said we walk by faith, not be sight. So there is no need to wear
a cross or even a stauros around one's neck. Some religion(s) give the
cross power.

For example, they will take it out and point it in front of a person
they think are possessed. Catholic (my birth religion), had a ritual
called "stations of the cross". That put the cross into a more
important light.

Thus your argument, "the cross was a pagan symbol" proves nothing. It
does not support your false definition for "stauros."

False in the first century? You've got to be kidding. Notice:

"The Greek word for cross, [stau+ros'], properly signified a stake, an
upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or
which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . .
Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived)
appears to have been originally an upright pole." ("The Imperial Bible-Dictionary" -Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p.
376.)

Also, from "An Expository Dictionary of the New Testament Words" by
W.E. Vine, 1962, p. 256,

"Stauros . . . denotes, primarily, an upright pale or stake. On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun [stau+ros'] and
the verb "stauro", to fasten to a stake or pale, are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed cross. The
shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as
the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau,
the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands,
including Egypt."

And he goes on to say:

"By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed
from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In
order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system
pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by
faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and
symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the
cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the cross of Christ."

Everyone in the
ancient world understood a crucifixion "stauros" to be a post with a >crossbeam. The fact that the Romans called this method of execution, >"crucify" shows you right there the shape of the "stauros" they
were using. "Crucify" means to nail to a CROSS.

It's not limited to just a cross:

"Crucifixion

Method of deliberately slow and painful execution

Crucifixion is a method of capital punishment in which the condemned
is tied or nailed to a large wooden cross, beam or stake and left to
hang until eventual death. It was used as a punishment by the
Persians, Carthaginians, and Romans, among others. Crucifixion has
been used in some countries as recently as the 21st century."
(Wikipedia)

If there was no crossbeam, they instead used the words,
"polos", "stoikima", "passalos", etc. The Greek "stauros" or "stavros"
is related to the English and Nordic, "stave", or, "staff" and usually
refers to a upright stake of wood with a cross-brace. The idea of a >cross-beam was inherent in this word root before it even became a Greek
word. Even an ancient shepherd's staff was often formed from a staff
with a t-cross or y-cross at the top, and this too was called a staff
or stavros.

""stauros",

Historical Usage: In ancient times, "stauros" referred to any upright
stake or pole used for execution." (https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=mnet&hsimp=yhs-001&type=type9045647-spa-6246-84501&param1=6246&param2=84501&p=what+is+sourse+of+stauros&grd=1)

Like I said before: Pagans believe that water is wet. Therefore to be a
true Christian, you should deny the wetness of water. This is the logic
of the Watchtower Society in its false doctrine denying the cross of
Jesus Christ.

You know that is not logic, but nonsense. You may believe what you
want to believe, and so will we.

"I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing
unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean,
to him it is unclean."

See above

"Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world,
why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
(Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the
using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?"

Finally, you have failed to ask the most pertinent question: where did
the pagans get the symbol of the cross from?

The cross originally represented the four corners of the earth beneath
the turning of the zodiac. The center of the cross is the center of the
world around which all the ages turn. It originally represented God's >sovereignty over the times and seasons of the ages of creation, before
the pagan religions appropriated it for themselves. By appropriating
the cross, the pagan nobility were claiming God's sovereignty for
themselves:

"He (the antichrist) thinketh to change times and seasons ..."

There are MANY antichrists, not just one. (1 John 2:18)

The cross originally was a holy symbol at the start of creation that was
used in a polluted way by Nimrod's rebels. God merely took back what was
His to begin with. He used Jesus to make an open show of it. This is
why the pagan liberals hate Christians. The pagan libertines are Satan's >children, raised up to hate that which is holy, and to consider filthy
things as holy things. Modern Christians are ensnared as though dead in
the liberalized Church system, but they will one day be freed by God.

Yes, since the churches are "dead", it is no wonder that those who go
to them are spiritually "dead" also.

Sincerely James
"Coping With Rising Prices?
uManage Your Funds Wisely"
See jw.org 8/24/2025)
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 22:41:17 -0400, zebrabible@proton.me wrote:

A cross is an unclean thing because the pagan uses of it in religious >ceremonies. The Bible says the death instrument of Jesus was a stake
not a cross. The Greek word the Bible used was "stauros", which in the
first century meant an upright stake or pole. Look it up!

The cross was an unclean thing because pagans (in this case the
ancient Romans) used it as an instrument of execution, especially for
those who had committed particularly heinous crimes like crimes
against the state. Crucifixion was not only death, it was a
dishonourable and shameful death, and death made anything associated
with it unclean.

But Jesus, the innocent victim, transformed the cross by his death and resurrection into what Orthodox Christians refer to as "the honourable
and life-giving cross". The symbol of death with dishonour was
transfigured by one who died on it into a symbol of life and hope.

If you want to call it a "stake", that's OK; you can just translate it
as "the honourable and life-giving stake."
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 07:15:17 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 22:41:17 -0400, zebrabible@proton.me wrote:

A cross is an unclean thing because the pagan uses of it in religious >>ceremonies. The Bible says the death instrument of Jesus was a stake
not a cross. The Greek word the Bible used was "stauros", which in the >>first century meant an upright stake or pole. Look it up!

The cross was an unclean thing because pagans (in this case the
ancient Romans) used it as an instrument of execution, especially for
those who had committed particularly heinous crimes like crimes
against the state. Crucifixion was not only death, it was a
dishonourable and shameful death, and death made anything associated
with it unclean.

But Jesus, the innocent victim, transformed the cross by his death and >resurrection into what Orthodox Christians refer to as "the honourable
and life-giving cross". The symbol of death with dishonour was
transfigured by one who died on it into a symbol of life and hope.

If you want to call it a "stake", that's OK; you can just translate it
as "the honourable and life-giving stake."

Morning,

It's not what I call it, but what the Bible calls it. A stauros; an
upright stake or pole. That's the word the Bible writers used in the
first century. Why would they call it that, if that isn't what it was?

Sincerely James
"An Economy That Works for All".
" GodAs Kingdom has the solution."
See jw.org 8/26/2025)


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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

In article <t5draklse69g86mmjh9oiniacjstera4jn@4ax.com>,
<zebrabible@proton.me> wrote:

On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 07:15:17 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 22:41:17 -0400, zebrabible@proton.me wrote:

A cross is an unclean thing because the pagan uses of it in religious >>>ceremonies. The Bible says the death instrument of Jesus was a stake
not a cross. The Greek word the Bible used was "stauros", which in the >>>first century meant an upright stake or pole. Look it up!

The cross was an unclean thing because pagans (in this case the
ancient Romans) used it as an instrument of execution, especially for
those who had committed particularly heinous crimes like crimes
against the state. Crucifixion was not only death, it was a
dishonourable and shameful death, and death made anything associated
with it unclean.

But Jesus, the innocent victim, transformed the cross by his death and >>resurrection into what Orthodox Christians refer to as "the honourable
and life-giving cross". The symbol of death with dishonour was
transfigured by one who died on it into a symbol of life and hope.

If you want to call it a "stake", that's OK; you can just translate it
as "the honourable and life-giving stake."

Morning,

It's not what I call it, but what the Bible calls it. A stauros; an
upright stake or pole. That's the word the Bible writers used in the
first century. Why would they call it that, if that isn't what it was?

Sincerely James
"An Economy That Works for All".
" GodAs Kingdom has the solution."
See jw.org 8/26/2025)

REally the symbol of Christianity should be the Empty Tomb!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ;
All I want to hear from JEsus Christ is WEll done Good and Faithful servant
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Aug 26, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<t5draklse69g86mmjh9oiniacjstera4jn@4ax.com>):

It's not what I call it, but what the Bible calls it. A stauros; an
upright stake or pole. That's the word the Bible writers used in the
first century. Why would they call it that, if that isn't what it was?

rCLThe God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.rCY (Act 5:30)

rCLAnd we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:rCY (Act 10:39)

rCLChrist hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:rCY (Gal 3:13)

rCLAnd if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:rCY (Deu 21:22)

rCLHis body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an
inheritance.rCY (Deu 21:23)

Why a rCyTREErCO?

Jesus was not resurrected a rCLspiritrCY as you would have it, he was seen by 500 men plus women after he rose out of the grave, walked on this earth, visited and taught many, and was seen rising up from the ground into the clouds. In this same manner will he return to rule.

rCLWhich also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in
like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.rCY (Act 1:11)

In another thread you claimed that no man could see him after he was resurrected. Thereby denying that you believe ALL scripture.


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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 09:35:44 -0400, zebrabible@proton.me wrote:

On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 07:15:17 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 22:41:17 -0400, zebrabible@proton.me wrote:

A cross is an unclean thing because the pagan uses of it in religious >>>ceremonies. The Bible says the death instrument of Jesus was a stake
not a cross. The Greek word the Bible used was "stauros", which in the >>>first century meant an upright stake or pole. Look it up!

The cross was an unclean thing because pagans (in this case the
ancient Romans) used it as an instrument of execution, especially for
those who had committed particularly heinous crimes like crimes
against the state. Crucifixion was not only death, it was a
dishonourable and shameful death, and death made anything associated
with it unclean.

But Jesus, the innocent victim, transformed the cross by his death and >>resurrection into what Orthodox Christians refer to as "the honourable
and life-giving cross". The symbol of death with dishonour was
transfigured by one who died on it into a symbol of life and hope.

If you want to call it a "stake", that's OK; you can just translate it
as "the honourable and life-giving stake."

Morning,

It's not what I call it, but what the Bible calls it. A stauros; an
upright stake or pole. That's the word the Bible writers used in the
first century. Why would they call it that, if that isn't what it was?

Well yes, it's the "honourable and life-giving stavros" that I was
talking about.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com

For information about why crossposting is (usually) good, and multiposting (nearly always) bad, see:
http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/unice.htm#xpost
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