• Day 236 of My 5th Bible Study Journey

    From doctor@doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) to alt.bible,alt.messianic,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet on Sun Aug 24 18:50:10 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    Day 236, 24 August 2025

    Today at <a href="https://www.calvarycommunity.ca">
    Calvary Community Church</a> Guest PastorRick Vandewark spoke on
    Freedom: it looks Good on You!

    Psalm 119:32

    32 I will run in the way of Your commandments,
    when You set my heart free.

    [32] I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my
    heart.

    Proverbs 4:23

    23 (Lk 6:45; Pr 4:7 ) Keep your heart with all diligence,
    for out of it are the issues of life.

    23 Keep thy heart with all diligence;
    For out of it are the issues of life.

    Root and Fruit:
    Romans 11:16b

    And if the root is holy, so are the branches.

    be holy, so are the branches.

    Wounds are my history, not my identity!

    Sometimes the question is not "why" but how? How do I move
    forward rather than why did this happen to me?

    - Learn to work the word (have faith in it/cling to it) until it works!
    - The process in Luke 8 'hear, hold, persevere, produce.'

    To be truly free. the Holy Spirit heals our heart. Heart freedom.

    Goal: identity. Comfortable in my own skin -- warts and all

    Forgiveness:
    - Question: how does forgiveness work, since God can't forget?
    - You can't add to the cross. Ask, receive. stand. Faith in his finished work. - If I'm defending myself. I'm not repenting.
    - If there is a reaction. there's still a trigger.
    - Beware the paralysis of analysis.
    . Don't rehearse it! Don't curse it! Don't nurse it!- just disperse itl
    . If you need to, write a letter of forgiveness,
    first person - then read it out loud before God.
    - Then out loud, first person, bless the person and release them.

    1) Ezekiel 17, Ezekiel 18, Ezekiel 19

    Ezekiel 17

    Two Eagles and a Vine

    1 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying:
    2 (Eze 20:49) Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable
    to the house of Israel,
    3 (Jer 48:40; Hos 8:1) and say, Thus says the Lord God:
    A great eagle with great wings, long-winged, full of feathers which had
    various colors, came to Lebanon and took away the highest branch of the cedar. 4 He cropped off the top of its young twigs and carried it into
    a land of merchants. He set it in a city of dealers.
    5 (Dt 8:7-9; Isa 44:4) He took also some of the seed of the land
    and planted it in a fruitful field. He placed it by great waters
    and set it as a willow tree.
    6 (Eze 17:14) It grew and became a spreading vine of low stature,
    whose branches turned toward him, and its roots were under it.
    So it became a vine, and brought forth branches, and shot forth sprigs.
    7 (Eze 17:15; 31:4) There was also another great eagle with great wings
    and many feathers. And this vine bent its roots toward him and shot forth
    its branches toward him, that he might water it by the bed
    where it was planted.
    8 It was planted in a good soil by many waters, that it might bring forth branches, and that it might bear fruit, that it might be a splendid vine.
    9 Say: Thus says the Lord God: Will it thrive? Will he not pull up its roots and cut off its fruit, so that it withers, so that all its spring leaves wither? It will not take a great power or many people to pull it
    from its roots.
    10 (Hos 13:15) Though it has been planted, will it prosper? Shall it not utterly wither when the east wind hits it? It shall wither in the furrows
    where it grew.
    11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying:
    12 (Eze 24:19; 1:2) Say now to the rebellious house: Do you not know
    what these things mean? Tell them: The king of Babylon came to Jerusalem,
    and took its king and its officials, and led them to him in Babylon.
    13 (2Ch 36:13; 2Ki 24:15-17) He took one of the king's seed,
    and made a covenant with him, and put him under oath. He has also taken
    away the mighty of the land,
    14 (Eze 29:14) that the kingdom might be debased, that it might not lift
    itself up, but by the keeping of his covenant it might stand.
    15 (Dt 17:16; 2Ki 24:20) But he rebelled against him in sending
    his ambassadors into Egypt, that they might give him horses
    and much people. Shall he prosper? Shall he escape who does such things?
    Can he indeed break the covenant and be delivered?
    16 (Eze 12:13; Jer 52:11) As I live, says the Lord God, surely in the country of the king who made him king, whose oath he despised and whose covenant
    he broke, in the midst of Babylon he shall die.
    17 (Jer 37:7; Isa 36:6) Nor shall Pharaoh with his mighty army
    and great company help him in the war by casting up mounts
    and building forts to cut off many persons.
    18 (1Ch 29:24) Seeing he despised the oath by breaking the covenant,
    when he had given his allegiance and has done all these things,
    he shall not escape.
    19 Therefore thus says the Lord God: As I live, surely My oath that he has despised and My covenant that he has broken, I will inflict upon his own head. 20 (Eze 12:13; Jer 2:35) I will spread My net upon him, and he shall be taken in My snare, and I will bring him to Babylon and will enter into judgment
    with him there for his trespass that he has trespassed against Me.
    21 (2Ki 25:5; 25:11) All the choice men in all his troops shall fall
    by the sword, and those who remain shall be scattered toward all winds.
    And you shall know that I the Lord have spoken it.
    22 (Eze 20:40; Ps 2:6) Thus says the Lord God: I will also take of the highest branch of the high cedar and set it aside. I will crop off from the top
    of its young twigs a tender one and will plant it on a high
    and lofty mountain.
    23 (Eze 31:6; Mt 13:32) On the mountain of the height of Israel I will plant it. And it shall bring forth boughs, and bear fruit, and be a splendid cedar. And under it all fowl of every wing shall nest. In the shadow of its branches they shall nest.
    24 (Eze 22:14; Am 9:11) All the trees of the field shall know that I the Lord have brought down the high tree, have exalted the low tree, have dried up
    the green tree, and have made the dry tree to flourish.
    I, the Lord, have spoken and will do it.

    Ezekiel 17
    [1] And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
    [2] Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel;
    [3] And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; A great eagle with great wings, longwinged, full of feathers, which had divers colours, came unto Lebanon,
    and took the highest branch of the cedar:
    [4] He cropped off the top of his young twigs, and carried it into a land of traffick; he set it in a city of merchants.
    [5] He took also of the seed of the land, and planted it in a fruitful
    field; he placed it by great waters, and set it as a willow tree.
    [6] And it grew, and became a spreading vine of low stature, whose branches turned toward him, and the roots thereof were under him: so it became a
    vine, and brought forth branches, and shot forth sprigs.
    [7] There was also another great eagle with great wings and many feathers:
    and, behold, this vine did bend her roots toward him, and shot forth her branches toward him, that he might water it by the furrows of her plantation. [8] It was planted in a good soil by great waters, that it might bring
    forth branches, and that it might bear fruit, that it might be a goodly vine. [9] Say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Shall it prosper? shall he not pull
    up the roots thereof, and cut off the fruit thereof, that it wither? it
    shall wither in all the leaves of her spring, even without great power or
    many people to pluck it up by the roots thereof.
    [10] Yea, behold, being planted, shall it prosper? shall it not utterly
    wither, when the east wind toucheth it? it shall wither in the furrows
    where it grew.
    [11] Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
    [12] Say now to the rebellious house, Know ye not what these things mean?
    tell them, Behold, the king of Babylon is come to Jerusalem, and hath taken
    the king thereof, and the princes thereof, and led them with him to
    Babylon;
    [13] And hath taken of the king's seed, and made a covenant with him, and
    hath taken an oath of him: he hath also taken the mighty of the land:
    [14] That the kingdom might be base, that it might not lift itself up, but
    that by keeping of his covenant it might stand.
    [15] But he rebelled against him in sending his ambassadors into Egypt, that they might give him horses and much people. Shall he prosper? shall he
    escape that doeth such things? or shall he break the covenant, and be delivered?
    [16] As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely in the place where the king
    dwelleth that made him king, whose oath he despised, and whose covenant he brake, even with him in the midst of Babylon he shall die.
    [17] Neither shall Pharaoh with his mighty army and great company make for
    him in the war, by casting up mounts, and building forts, to cut off many persons:
    [18] Seeing he despised the oath by breaking the covenant, when, lo, he had given his hand, and hath done all these things, he shall not escape.
    [19] Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; As I live, surely mine oath that he hath despised, and my covenant that he hath broken, even it will I
    recompense upon his own head.
    [20] And I will spread my net upon him, and he shall be taken in my snare,
    and I will bring him to Babylon, and will plead with him there for his
    trespass that he hath trespassed against me.
    [21] And all his fugitives with all his bands shall fall by the sword, and
    they that remain shall be scattered toward all winds: and ye shall know that
    I the LORD have spoken it.
    [22] Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also take of the highest branch of the high cedar, and will set it; I will crop off from the top of his young
    twigs a tender one, and will plant it upon an high mountain and eminent:
    [23] In the mountain of the height of Israel will I plant it: and it shall bring forth boughs, and bear fruit, and be a goodly cedar: and under it
    shall dwell all fowl of every wing; in the shadow of the branches thereof
    shall they dwell.
    [24] And all the trees of the field shall know that I the LORD have brought down the high tree, have exalted the low tree, have dried up the green tree, and have made the dry tree to flourish: I the LORD have brought down the
    high tree, have exalted the low tree, have dried up the green tree, and have made the dry tree to flourish: I the LORD have spoken and have done it.

    Ezekiel 18

    The Soul Who Sins Will Die

    1 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying:
    2 (Isa 3:15; La 5:7) What do you mean in using this proverb
    concerning the land of Israel, saying:
    "The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
    and the children's teeth are set on edge"?
    3 As I live, says the Lord God, you shall not have occasion anymore
    to use this proverb in Israel.
    4 (Eze 18:20; Ro 6:23; Nu 16:22) All souls are Mine. The soul of the father,
    so also the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins shall die.
    5 But if a man is righteous
    and does that which is lawful and right,
    6 (Eze 18:15; Dt 4:19; Eze 6:13) and has not eaten on the mountains;
    nor has he lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel,
    nor has he defiled his neighbor's wife,
    nor has he approached a woman during her impurity;
    7 (Eze 18:16; 18:12; Ex 22:26) and he has not oppressed anyone,
    but has restored to the debtor his pledge;
    has devastated no one by violence,
    has given his bread to the hungry,
    and has covered the naked with a garment;
    8 (Ex 22:25; Zec 8:16; Dt 23:19-20) if he has not lent at interest,
    nor has taken any increase,
    but has withdrawn his hand from iniquity,
    has executed true justice between man and man;
    9 (Am 5:4; Eze 18:17) has walked in My statutes,
    and has kept My judgments to deal truly,
    he is righteous
    and shall surely live,
    says the Lord God.
    10 (Ex 21:12) If he begets a son who is a robber, a shedder of blood,
    and who does any of these things to a brother
    11 (though he himself does not do any of these things),
    but even has eaten on the mountain shrines
    and defiled his neighbor's wife;
    12 (Eze 8:6; 8:17) has oppressed the poor and needy,
    has devastated by violence,
    has not restored the pledge,
    and has lifted up his eyes to the idols,
    has committed abomination,
    13 (Ex 22:25; Lev 20:9) has lent at interest, and has taken increase,
    shall he then live?
    He shall not live. He has done all these abominations. He shall surely die.
    His blood shall be upon his own head.
    14 (2Ch 34:21; Pr 23:24) Now if he begets a son who sees all his father's
    sins which he has done, and considering does not do likewise:
    15 He has not eaten on the mountain shrines,
    nor has he lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel,
    has not defiled his neighbor's wife;
    16 (Eze 18:7) nor has he oppressed anyone,
    has not withheld a pledge,
    nor has he devastated by violence,
    but has given his bread to the hungry,
    and has covered the naked with a garment;
    17 (Eze 18:8-9) he keeps his hand from the poor,
    has not received usury nor increase,
    has executed My judgments, and has walked in My statutes.
    He shall not die for the iniquity of his father; he shall surely live.
    18 (Eze 3:18) As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, devastated
    his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people,
    he shall die for his iniquity.

    [1] The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,
    [2] What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set
    on edge?
    [3] As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to
    use this proverb in Israel.
    [4] Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul
    of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
    [5] But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
    [6] And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes
    to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's
    wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,
    [7] And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;
    [8] He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any
    increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,
    [9] Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly;
    he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.
    [10] If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth
    the like to any one of these things,
    [11] And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife,
    [12] Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath
    committed abomination,
    [13] Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then
    live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall
    surely die; his blood shall be upon him.
    [14] Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he
    hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,
    [15] That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes
    to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife, [16] Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither
    hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment,
    [17] That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received
    usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes;
    he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.
    [18] As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.

    Repent and Live

    19 (Ex 20:5; Jer 15:4) Yet you say, "Why should the son not bear
    the punishment of the iniquity of the father?" When the son has done
    what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes, and has done them,
    he shall surely live.
    20 (Dt 24:16; 2Ki 14:6) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not
    bear the punishment of the iniquity of the father, nor shall the father
    bear the punishment of the iniquity of the son. The righteousness
    of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked
    shall be upon himself.
    21 (Eze 18:27-28; 33:19) But if the wicked turns from all his sins
    that he has committed, and keeps all My statutes, and does that which
    is lawful and right, he shall surely live. He shall not die.
    22 (Ps 18:20-24; Isa 43:25) All his transgressions that he has committed,
    they shall not be remembered against him. Because of his righteousness
    that he has done, he shall live.
    23 (Eze 33:11; Ps 147:11) Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked, says the Lord God, but rather that he should turn from his ways and live?
    24 (1Sa 15:11; Eze 33:18) But when a righteous man turns away
    from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and does according to all
    the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live?
    All his righteousness that he has done shall not be remembered for his
    trespass that he has committed and in his sin that he has done.
    In them he shall die.
    25 (Eze 33:17; Ge 18:25) Yet you say, "The way of the Lord is not right."
    Hear now, O house of Israel. Is not My way right? Are not your ways not right? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness
    and commits iniquity,
    he dies in it. For his iniquity that he has done he shall die.
    27 (Isa 1:18; 55:7) Again, when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he has committed and does that which is lawful and right,
    he shall save his soul.
    28 Because he considered and turned away from all his transgressions
    that he has committed, he shall surely live. He shall not die.
    29 Yet the house of Israel says, "The way of the Lord is not right."
    O house of Israel, are not My ways right? Are not your ways not right?
    30 (Eze 18:21; 7:3) Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, says the Lord God. Repent, and turn away from all your transgressions so that iniquity shall not be your ruin.
    31 (Eze 11:19; Ps 51:10) Cast away from you all your transgressions whereby
    you have transgressed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit.
    For why will you die, O house of Israel?
    32 (Eze 18:23) For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,
    says the Lord God. Therefore, repent and live.

    [19] Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
    [20] The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the
    iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the
    son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the
    wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
    [21] But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed,
    and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
    [22] All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be
    mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
    [23] Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord
    GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
    [24] But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and
    committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done
    shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his
    sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
    [25] Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of
    Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
    [26] When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and
    committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
    [27] Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he
    hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
    [28] Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions
    that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
    [29] Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O
    house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
    [30] Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to
    his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
    [31] Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have
    transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye
    die, O house of Israel?
    [32] For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord
    GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

    Ezekiel 19

    A Lament for Israel's Princes

    1 (2Ki 24:6; Eze 26:17) Moreover take up a lamentation
    for the officials of Israel,
    2 and say:
    What was your mother?
    A lioness among lions!
    She lay down among young lions;
    she nourished her whelps.
    3 When she brought up one of her whelps,
    he became a lion
    and learned to catch his prey;
    he devoured men.
    4 (2Ki 23:33-34; 2Ch 36:4) The nations also heard of him;
    he was taken in their pit,
    and they brought him with chains
    to the land of Egypt.
    5 Now when she saw as she had waited
    that her hope was lost,
    then she took another of her whelps
    and made him a young lion.
    6 He went up and down among the lions;
    he became a young lion,
    and learned to catch the prey,
    and devoured men.
    7 (Eze 30:12) He destroyed their fortified palaces,
    and he laid waste their cities;
    and the land and its fullness
    were appalled by the noise of his roaring.
    8 (Eze 12:13; 19:4) Then the nations set against him
    on every side from their provinces,
    and spread their net over him;
    he was taken in their pit.
    9 (2Ch 36:6; Eze 6:2) They put him in a cage with hooks
    and brought him to the king of Babylon;
    they brought him in hunting nets,
    so that his voice would be heard no more
    on the mountains of Israel.
    10 (Ps 80:8-11; Dt 8:7) Your mother was like a vine in your vineyard,
    planted by the waters;
    it was fruitful and full of branches
    by reason of many waters.
    11 (Eze 31:3; Ps 80:15) It had strong rods
    for the scepters of those who rule.
    And its stature
    was exalted above the clouds,
    so it appeared in its height
    with the multitude of its branches.
    12 (Eze 17:10; Hos 13:15) But it was plucked up in fury,
    it was cast down to the ground,
    and the east wind dried up its fruit.
    Its strong rod was broken and it withered;
    the fire consumed it.
    13 (Hos 2:3; Eze 19:10) Now it is planted in the wilderness,
    in a dry and thirsty ground.
    14 (2Ki 24:20; Eze 19:1) Fire has gone out from its branch;
    it has devoured its shoots and fruit,
    so that there is no strong rod in it,
    a scepter to rule.
    This is a lamentation, and has become a lamentation.

    Ezekiel 19
    [1] Moreover take thou up a lamentation for the princes of Israel,
    [2] And say, What is thy mother? A lioness: she lay down among lions, she nourished her whelps among young lions.
    [3] And she brought up one of her whelps: it became a young lion, and it learned to catch the prey; it devoured men.
    [4] The nations also heard of him; he was taken in their pit, and they
    brought him with chains unto the land of Egypt.
    [5] Now when she saw that she had waited, and her hope was lost, then she
    took another of her whelps, and made him a young lion.
    [6] And he went up and down among the lions, he became a young lion, and learned to catch the prey, and devoured men.
    [7] And he knew their desolate palaces, and he laid waste their cities; and
    the land was desolate, and the fulness thereof, by the noise of his roaring. [8] Then the nations set against him on every side from the provinces, and spread their net over him: he was taken in their pit.
    [9] And they put him in ward in chains, and brought him to the king of
    Babylon: they brought him into holds, that his voice should no more be
    heard upon the mountains of Israel.
    [10] Thy mother is like a vine in thy blood, planted by the waters: she was fruitful and full of branches by reason of many waters.
    [11] And she had strong rods for the sceptres of them that bare rule, and
    her stature was exalted among the thick branches, and she appeared in her height with the multitude of her branches.
    [12] But she was plucked up in fury, she was cast down to the ground, and
    the east wind dried up her fruit: her strong rods were broken and withered;
    the fire consumed them.
    [13] And now she is planted in the wilderness, in a dry and thirsty ground. [14] And fire is gone out of a rod of her branches, which hath devoured her fruit, so that she hath no strong rod to be a sceptre to rule. This is a lamentation, and shall be for a lamentation.


    2) Our Daily Bread for 24 August 2025 titled <a href=" https://www.odbm.org/en/devotionals/devotional-category/god-is-everywhere">
    God Is Everywhere</a> by Winn Collier

    Genesis 28:10-17

    Jacob's Dream at Bethel

    10 Then Jacob went out from Beersheba and went toward Harran.
    11 He came to a certain place and stayed there all night, because the sun
    had set. He took one of the stones of that place and put it under his head,
    and lay down in that place to sleep.
    12 He dreamed and saw a ladder set up on the earth with the top of it reaching to heaven. The angels of God were ascending and descending on it.
    13 The Lord stood above it and said, "I am the Lord God of Abraham
    your father and the God of Isaac. The land on which you lie, to you will
    I give it and to your descendants.
    14 Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will
    spread abroad to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south, and in you and in your descendants all the families of the earth will be blessed. 15 Remember, I am with you, and I will protect you wherever
    you go, and I will bring you back to this land. For I will not leave you until I have done what I promised you."
    16 Jacob awoke out of his sleep, and he said, "Surely the Lord is in this place, and I did not know it." 17 He was afraid and said,
    "How awesome is this place! This is none other but the house of God,
    and this is the gate of heaven."

    [10] And Jacob went out from Beer-sheba, and went toward Haran.
    [11] And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night,
    because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put
    them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.
    [12] And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of
    it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending
    on it.
    [13] And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to
    thee will I give it, and to thy seed;
    [14] And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and
    in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
    [15] And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither
    thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.
    [16] And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in
    this place; and I knew it not.
    [17] And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.

    The unassuming violinist, donning a baseball cap and T-shirt, set up near Washington, DC's L'Enfant Plaza subway station. He moved the bow across
    the strings, making melodious tunes. But commuters rushed past, oblivious.
    He played an entire music program with only a handful of people stopping
    to listen. If the crowd had only known they were rushing past Joshua Bell,
    one of the greatest virtuosos of our generation, who had played
    at the Library of Congress the night before. Bell played several
    of the most difficult, mesmerising violin pieces in the world,
    all on a 1713 Stradivarius worth roughly $3.5 million.

    It|ore4raos easy to be unaware, to miss wonders right in front of us. This was Jacob's experience as he journeyed to Harran (Genesis 28:10). He stopped
    and set up camp in a simple spot that seemed like any other, just a place
    to lay his head for the night. God appeared to him in a midnight dream,
    however, telling him that his numerous descendants would bless "all peoples
    on earth" (v. 14). He also assured Jacob that He would "watch over [him]
    wherever [he would] go" (v. 15). When he awoke, Jacob said, "Surely the
    Lord is in this place, and I was not aware of it" (v. 16).

    God is everywhere, "fill[ing] heaven and earth" (Jeremiah 23:24).
    He's present in the most ordinary places. Our invitation is to keep
    our eyes and ears open, to watch and listen for Him.

    Reflect & Pray

    Where have you been surprised by God's presence?
    How can you live more aware of Him?

    Dear God, it's so easy to miss You.
    I want to see You and hear You.

    3) Daily verses taken from Billy Graham Evangelical Organisation

    Words in Season Scripture Memory Tools

    Week 5 Rejoice in Grace - Day 1 Call to the Lord - 2 Samuel 22:3-4

    3 (Ge 15:1; Ps 9:9) the God of my strength, in whom I will trust;
    my shield and the horn of my salvation,
    my fortress and my sanctuary;
    my Savior, You save me from violence.
    4 (Ps 48:1; 96:4) I call upon the Lord, who is praiseworthy,
    and I am saved from my enemies.

    3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust:
    He is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge,
    My saviour; thou savest me from violence.
    4 I will call on the LORD, who is worthy to be praised:
    So shall I be saved from mine enemies.

    In the old Days of Television Western, we could always tell who the enemy was. The bad guys wore black hats; the evil villain had a scar across
    his cheek or a patch over one eye. But real life is
    not quite so simple . Enemies come in many forms, and often are not easy to recognise. Sin is an enemy; even those we love can seek
    to undermine our faith;
    modern materialism and distorted values lead us away from biblical principles. These enemies may not seek our death in a physical sense,
    but their influence results in spiritual death or, at the very least, immaturity.
    Yet God promises to rescue us from our enemies. David describes the Lord as a "rock", a "shield", a "stronghold", and a "refuge". God provides a stable foundation for our faith; he products us from the attacks of the enemy;
    he offers a place of rest in battle.
    Our battles are usually not physical ones, but rather spiritual
    and emotional wars.
    We struggle with difficult relationships, the burdens of the past,
    the subtle accusations of the devil.
    But these enemies can be overcome. David says,
    "I call to the Lord, who is worthy of praise" .
    When we turn to the Lord, trust his Word, acknowledge his
    worthiness, we put our own problems and difficulties in perspective.
    We see that God is able to rescue us, and has promised to do so.
    And as we respond to his grace by focusing
    on him, we abandon trust in ourselves and allow him to do what he promised.

    Application

    a) What kinds of enemies do I face?

    b) How have I tried to deal with those enemies by myself?

    c) How can today's verses help me turn to the sources of my rescue?


    4) From Prosperity Promises - Kenneth Copeland

    3 John 2

    2 Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be
    in good health, even as your soul is well.

    2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

    5) From a Book called God's Promises for you:

    God's Inexhaustible Strength

    Is 40:27-31

    27 Why do you say, O Jacob,
    and assert, O Israel,
    "My way is hidden from the Lord,
    and my justice escapes the notice of my God"?
    28 (Ps 147:5; Ge 21:33; Isa 57:15) Have you not known?
    Have you not heard,
    that the everlasting God, the Lord,
    the Creator of the ends of the earth,
    does not faint, nor is He weary?
    His understanding is inscrutable.
    29 (Isa 41:10) He gives power to the faint,
    and to those who have no might He increases strength.
    30 (Isa 9:17) Even the youths shall faint and be weary,
    and the young men shall utterly fall,
    31 (2Co 4:16; Ps 103:5; Ex 19:4) but those who wait upon the Lord
    shall renew their strength;
    they shall mount up with wings as eagles,
    they shall run and not be weary,
    and they shall walk and not faint.

    27 Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest, O Israel, My way is hid
    from the LORD, and my judgment is passed over from my God?
    28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God,
    the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not,
    neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
    29 He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might
    he increaseth strength.
    30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall
    utterly fall:
    31 but they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary;
    and they shall walk, and not faint.

    Remember God's promises when You pray

    The Lord's prayer

    Matthew 6:9-13

    9 "Therefore pray in this manner:
    Our Father who is in heaven,
    hallowed be Your name.
    10 (Mt 3:2; 4:17) Your kingdom come;
    Your will be done
    on earth, as it is in heaven.
    11 (Pr 30:8; Isa 33:16) Give us this day our daily bread.
    12 (Ex 34:7; Ps 32:1) And forgive us our debts,
    as we forgive our debtors.
    13 (1Co 10:13; Jn 17:15) And lead us not into temptation,
    but deliver us from evil.
    For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen."

    9 After this manner therefore pray ye:
    Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
    10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
    11 Give us this day our daily bread.
    12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
    13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:
    For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

    6) This come from Praying for Muslims in Canada 2015 (Is there a 2021 edition?)

    New Brunswick

    Total population 753900
    Muslim population (est.) 4543

    Moncton, followed by Fredericton and Saint John, each have a growing Muslim population in New Brunswick, In 2007, the building that was formerly a Baptist church was converted into Moncton's 1st mosque. The University of Moncton
    also has a Muslim student association hosting prayer services, fellowship getherings, and outreaches on campus.
    Fredericton also has one mosque and a Muslim student association serving the campuses of the University of New Brunswick and St. Thomas University. Fredericton's Muslim population consists in 2014 of about 50 families,
    and between 300 to 400 university students.
    Saint John is home to the 1st Muslim Association for the province,
    which also helped foster the Islamic associations of Fredericton and Moncton.
    a 'musalla', or prayer location that is not officially structured as a mosque, has been established in the Uptown area with the intention of seeing it grow into a 2nd official place of Muslim worship. Demand for this new location has been primarily for university students moving into the area.

    Pray for Muslims and New Brunswick
    - that the eyes of pastors, believers and entire congregations will be opened to see this growing body of Muslims, and their hearts will be opened
    to sharing God's love in Jesus Christ with them

    - that intentional ministries to Muslims will grow and flourish in these
    areas of concentration

    - that cooperative CNNMM Networks will form to really, encourage,
    and equip believers to lovingly reach Muslims in this province.

    Adding further

    30 days of prayer for the Muslim World 24 April to 23 May 2020

    Under the Keep Praying page

    When the new moon is sighted it marks the beginning of t he new Islamic month and Eid al-Fitr, the "Festival of Breaking the Fast", will start! After 30 days of fasting, the Eid celebration at the end of Ramadan is a joyful time that usually lasts about 3 days. Muslims will buy new clothes, exchange gifts and, of course, enjoy special foods. In Muslim-majority nations, the streets may be decorated and festivals will be held.
    For many Muslims, Eid-al-Fitr begins with communal prayers at daybreak and the distribution of money (zakat) to the poor, which is one of the 5 pillars of Islam.
    You can greet Muslim friends during this time by saying "Eid Mubarak",
    which means Blessed Eid!"
    Ramadan is over for this year, but you can continue to pray for Muslims you know, and Muslims around the world:
    - Despite the unsettling developments in our world today that involve actions in the name of Islam, there is at the same time a largely untold story about unprecedented movement to Christ among Muslims. There have been more such movements of thousands or more new disciples among Muslims in the last three decades or so than in all the previous history of Christian Muslim relationships! Pray for this momentum to continue.

    Acts 2:12-17 : 17 12 They were all amazed and perplexed, saying to each other, "What does this mean?"
    13 (1Co 14:23) Others mocking said, "These men are full of new wine."

    Peter's Speech at Pentecost

    14 (Ac 1:26) But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice
    and said to them, "Men of Judea and all you who dwell in Jerusalem,
    let this be known to you, and listen to my words.
    15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose,
    since it is the third hour of the day.
    16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
    17 (Isa 44:3; Ac 10:45) 'In the last days it shall be,' says God,
    'that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
    your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
    your young men shall see visions,
    and your old men shall dream dreams.'

    - Pray for Christian workers an organisations focused on seeing effective discipleship movements among Muslim people.

    - Ask the Holy Spirit to continue to inspire you to have god's heart for Muslims, to see them as He does, and to be the light that then to Jesus.

    Matthew 5:14-15 : 14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do men light a candle and put it under
    a basket, but on a candlestick. And it gives light to all who are in the house."

    Ideas for prayer

    - Pray for opportunities to show the love of Christ to Muslims around you
    - Pray for, and offer generous hospitality to, those you know who are serving Christ among Muslim people -

    Romans 12:13 "contribute to the needs of the saints, practice hospitality."
    - When you gather with fellow believers, remember to pray for Muslims throughout the year and encourage them to also participate in 30 Days!

    And

    Thank you for praying through the
    5 Days of Prayer for Sikhs.

    "My name is Kam. I'm 29 years of age, and I grew up Sikh. As a teenager,
    I struggled with depression, brokenness, and addiction to
    cannabis. I didn't know how to stop or how to get help.

    Then a friend invited me to church. As I spent time with Christians
    and heard the message of the Gospel, I experienced the
    love of Jesus Christ, and it was like nothing I'd known before.
    One night I had a dream where I saw Him - a figure surrounded by
    light who I knew was Jesus, the light of the world.

    As I began to understand the gospel message, I encountered a reassuring and confident solution to the problem of sin. I knew that I needed a solution
    to my sin problem, and I gave my life to Christ.

    Slowly, God began to heal my broken heart and my addiction.
    Nine years have passed, and I am a devoted husband and a father
    to two beautiful boys. I grow deeper in love with Jesus each day.

    I ask you to continue praying with me, and others around the world, for Sikhs. God is the only one who can draw people to Himself. He works in and through the prayers of His people. I want Sikhs to know the freedom
    and healing that is only available through Jesus Christ."

    13 (Ro 14:17; 12:12) Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy
    and peace in believing, so that you may abound in hope,
    through the power of the Holy Spirit.

    [13] Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that
    ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

    ROMANS 15:13

    My paternal side is of Muslim heritage and will offer this section to further call for Muslim converts to Christian and any other converts to Christianity

    (Hindus, Jews, aboriginals Canadian, atheists, secular humanists, ...) .


    7) Prayers for the nation (Canada) coming from Prayer map of Canada

    http://www.ehc.ca

    Day 24 of the Month

    a) Pray that the Lord will open a door for the message for the Gospel
    at every level of Canadian Society. (

    Col 4:3

    3 while praying also for us, that God would open to
    us a door of utterance to speak the mystery of Christ,
    for which I am also in chains,

    3 withal praying also for us, that God would open unto
    us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ,
    for which I am also in bonds:

    )

    b) Pray for the Province of Saskatchewan

    I) Pray for the leaders of Saskatchewan,
    that God's Spirit would influence
    then to act justly,
    serve with integrity
    and honour high moral standards. ( 1 Tim 2:1 - 4

    1 Therefore I exhort first of all that you make supplications,
    prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings for everyone,
    2 (Ezr 6:10) for kings and for all who are in authority,
    that we may lead a quiet and peaceful life in all godliness and honesty,
    3(1Ti 1:1; Lk 1:47) for this is good
    and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
    4 (Eze 18:23; 18:32)who desires all men to be saved
    and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    II) Pray for the churches of the province,
    that they would be lighthouses
    beaming forth the illuminating truth of God's Word.

    III) Pray that the Lord would use
    the Finding the Hope Campaign
    and booklet to turn many hearts to Jesus

    )


    Conclusion:

    Pray to the Lord to provide your with freedom in your life.

    Pray to the Lord and pray of prayer of repentance of your sin.

    Pray to the Lord: "Dear God, it's so easy to miss You.
    I want to see You and hear You."

    Pray to the Lord and pray to the Lord will help you in your fight against
    your enemies.

    Pray to the Lord and pray for the prosperity of the soul.

    Pray to the Lord and pray for Jesus to strengthen you.

    Pray for Muslims and New Brunswick
    - that the eyes of pastors, believers and entire congregations will be opened to see this growing body of Muslims, and their hearts will be opened
    to sharing God's love in Jesus Christ with them

    - that intentional ministries to Muslims will grow and flourish in these
    areas of concentration

    - that cooperative CNNMM Networks will form to really, encourage,
    and equip believers to lovingly reach Muslims in this province.

    Pray for Christian workers an organisations focused on seeing effective discipleship movements among Muslim people.

    - Pray for opportunities to show the love of Christ to Muslims around you
    - Pray for, and offer generous hospitality to, those you know who are serving Christ among Muslim people -
    Romans 12:13 "contribute to the needs of the saints, practice hospitality."
    - When you gather with fellow believers, remember to pray for Muslims throughout the year and encourage them to also participate in 30 Days!

    Pray that the Lord will open a door for the message for the Gospel
    at every level of Canadian Society.

    Pray for Hyun-Ok, a Christian in South Korea who is reaching North Korean defectors through Bible studies.

    Pray to the Lord that to know the Holy Spirit.
    and Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness.

    Remember eternity starts now -
    Pray for the direction you take to the Ever lasting loving God.
    --
    Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
    Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ;
    All I want to hear from JEsus Christ is WEll done Good and Faithful servant
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zebrabible@zebrabible@proton.me to alt.christnet.christnews,alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Mon Aug 25 21:33:43 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 16:34:45 -0500, Christ Rose
    <usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

    Your satire aside, letAs look carefully at what Scripture actually
    teaches about the rapture and the destiny of the righteous.

    Paul described the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:16u17, not as satire,
    but as a real event: oFor the Lord himself will descend from heaven with
    a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of
    the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who
    are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the
    clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the
    Lordo (1 Thessalonians 4:16u17, ESV).

    Interestingly, it can take an archangel to have a voice of an
    archangel. Guess who that would be?

    The word ocaught upo (Greek:
    harpaz?) literally means to be seized or snatched away. It points to a >sudden, supernatural gathering of ChristAs people to Himself.

    Yes, those who would rule with him from Heaven over the earth.


    This fits with John 14:2u3, where Jesus promised: oIn my FatherAs house
    are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to >prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will >come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be alsoo >(ESV). ChristAs promise is not that believers simply remain on earth,
    but that He takes them to the FatherAs house.

    Yes, the Heavenly group of 144,000 who will RULE with Jesus as priests
    and kings in Heaven, of which Paul and his companions are members.


    Your use of John 14:19 is out of context.

    -- New King James
    John 14:19 "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more,
    but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also.



    Jesus was speaking to His
    disciples about His imminent departure in death and resurrection. He
    said the world would see Him no more, but His disciples would see Him >againuin His resurrection appearances and ultimately at His return. To
    claim He will onever be seen again on the eartho

    Then, the world will see him no more, just like it says.

    Revelation tells us that those 144,000 will rule in Heaven over the
    earth. That is why Jesus said those on earth would see him no more.
    But his diciples would see him because they would all eventually go to
    Heaven to rule with him.

    contradicts Zechariah
    14:4, which prophesies: oOn that day his feet shall stand on the Mount
    of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the easto (ESV).

    Negatrons. You are being confused by the translators who tore out the Teteragrammaton here. They wanted to be your censors. Here is a
    translation that didn't. Zech 14:1-4:

    1. Behold, a day of Jehovah cometh, when thy spoil shall be divided
    in the midst of thee.
    2. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and
    the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women
    ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the
    residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
    3. Then shall Jehovah go forth, and fight against those nations, as
    when he fought in the day of battle.
    4. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
    which is before Jerusalem on the east; and the mount of Olives shall
    be cleft in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and
    there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall
    remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

    Thus the "Lord" here is Jehovah in this symbolic account.

    Acts 1:11 shows
    that Jesus will come again just as the disciple's saw Him ascend, oThey
    also said, oMen of Galilee, why do you stand looking toward heaven? This >Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the >same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.oo (Acts 1:11, LSB).

    Yes, Jesus went up high in the air until he disappeaed and became
    invisible to human eyes in the clouds. His return would thus be
    invisible to human eyes.

    Revelation 1:7 also says, oBehold, he is coming with the clouds, and
    every eye will see himo (ESV).

    You forget, Jesus died as a man, but was raised as a spirit being. And
    spirit beings are invisible to human eyes:

    -- Revised Standard
    1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the
    righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being
    put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;


    At face value, this would contradict all those other Scriptures
    concernig him. Concerning "every eye will see him", remember what
    Jesus said at John 14:19,

    "Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me.
    Because I live, you also will live." (NIV)

    The "eyes" then of the highly symbolic book of Revelation cannot mean
    literal eyes, otherwise Jesus' statement at John 14:19 would be false.
    And we both know that would not be possible.


    As for ruling, Revelation 5:10 says, oyou have made them a kingdom and >priests to our God, and they shall reign on the eartho

    There is a difference in translations here:

    - International English
    Revelation 5:10 You changed them into a kingdom and priests for our
    God. They will rule over the earth.''

    -- Darby's Bible
    Revelation 5:10 and made them to our God kings and priests; and they
    shall reign over the earth.

    -- Weymouth's New Testament
    Revelation 5:10 And hast formed them into a Kingdom to be priests to
    our God, And they reign over the earth."

    -- William's NewTestament
    Revelation 5:10 and have made them a kingdom of priests<e> for our
    God; and they will rule over the earth."

    Jesus can't reign ON THE EARTH, because he already said the world
    would not see him any more.


    (ESV). This is
    not ofrom heaveno but *on* the earth during ChristAs millennial reign >(Revelation 20:4u6). The meek inherit the earth because Christ Himself
    will reign here as King (Psalm 2; Isaiah 2:2u4).

    And mine says "over" the earth. My translations do not contradict
    anything, yours does.

    The Scriptures are clear: the rapture is a literal gathering of the
    saints to Christ,

    Yes, members of the 144,000 group will be raptured. But they will be
    given spirit bodies so as to enter Heaven.

    He will return visibly and bodily to earth,

    Rather he will return the same way he went up, invisibley.

    and His
    people will reign with Him on the earth.

    OVER the earth, not "on". But according to Strong's, either word can
    be used for the Greek word "epi".


    The Bible never teaches that
    Jesus will onever be seen again on the earth.o That claim directly >contradicts the prophets and the apostles.

    Negatrons, it fits in with the book of Revelaation and others
    perfectly.

    At any rate, have a glorious spiritual tomorrow.

    Sincerely James
    "An Economy That Works for All".
    " GodAs Kingdom has the solution."
    See jw.org 8/25/2025)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Christ Rose@usenet@christrose.news to alt.christnet.christnews,alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Mon Aug 25 20:46:15 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    ========================================
    Mon, 25 Aug 2025 21:33:43 -0400
    <4c0qaktrgln8oslv73qbnmm3m1v2qg3d0b@4ax.com>
    "Sincerely", "soley from the Bible" and
    "Honestly is my middle name"
    James <zebrabible@proton.me> wrote:
    ========================================
    Rather he will return the same way he went up, invisibley.

    False:

    rCLand said, rCLMen of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven?
    This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in
    the same way as you _SAW_ him go into heaven.rCYrCY (Acts 1:11, ESV,
    emphasis added)

    rCLBehold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see
    him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth
    will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.rCY (Revelation 1:7,
    ESV)
    --
    Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
    raised Him from the dead?

    That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
    satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
    2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
    sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

    On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
    the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
    of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

    https://christrose.news/salvation

    To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
    images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

    https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Christ Rose@usenet@christrose.news to alt.christnet.christnews,alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Mon Aug 25 20:48:50 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    "Sincerely" and "solely from the Bible" James,

    You say Jesus will never be seen again on earth, but Scripture is plain. Zechariah prophesies: rCLOn that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the eastrCY (Zechariah 14:4, ESV).
    You claim this refers only to Jehovah, not to Christ. Yet the New
    Testament applies such promises directly to Jesus.

    At His ascension, the angels declared: rCLThis Jesus, who was taken up
    from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heavenrCY (Acts 1:11, ESV). They did not say He would return invisibly,
    but in the same way He went uprCovisibly, bodily, from the Mount of
    Olives. Revelation 1:7 confirms it: rCLBehold, he is coming with the
    clouds, and every eye will see himrCY (ESV). To reduce rCLevery eyerCY to mere symbolism strips the passage of meaning and contradicts the angelrCOs
    clear words.

    You appeal to John 14:19rCorCLthe world will see me no morerCYrCobut this refers
    to His departure in death and the unbelieving worldrCOs blindness to His resurrection appearances. The disciples, however, did see Him again,
    both after His resurrection and at His promised return. Otherwise,
    Scripture would contradict itself, and the apostlesrCO witness in Acts 1
    would be false.

    As to ruling, Revelation 5:10 states: rCLand you have made them a kingdom
    and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earthrCY (ESV). Not
    just *over* the earth, but *on* it. Christ will reign in the place
    promised to David: rCLI will raise up your offspring after you rCa and I
    will establish the throne of his kingdom foreverrCY (2 Samuel 7:12rCo13,
    ESV). That throne was in Jerusalem. Psalm 2:6 agrees: rCLAs for me, I have
    set my King on Zion, my holy hillrCY (ESV).

    Your limitation of reigning to only 144,000 in heaven has no footing in Scripture. The promise of the meek inheriting the earth (Matthew 5:5)
    would be nonsense if only a few ruled from heaven and none dwelt with
    Christ on earth. Revelation 20:4rCo6 shows resurrected saints reigning
    *with Christ* during the thousand years, a reign tied to earth, not
    detached from it.

    Finally, your insistence that Jesus was raised only as a rCLspiritrCY being contradicts LukerCOs eyewitness record: rCLSee my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and
    bones as you see that I haverCY (Luke 24:39, ESV). Peter himself said they
    ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead (Acts 10:41). To deny
    His bodily resurrection is to preach a different Christ than the
    apostles proclaimed.

    The prophets and apostles stand together: Christ was raised bodily,
    ascended visibly, and will return in the same way to reign on the earth
    as the Son of David.
    --
    Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
    raised Him from the dead?

    That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
    satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
    2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
    sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

    On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
    the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
    of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

    https://christrose.news/salvation

    To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
    images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

    https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From vjp2.at@vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com to alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Wed Aug 27 00:43:19 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible


    The Rapture concept seems to have originated from Robert Bellarmine and Teresa Sanchez Avilla in the Catholic church
    --
    Vasos Panagiotopoulos panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
    ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From None@none@none.non to alt.bible, alt.religion.christian on Tue Aug 26 18:31:26 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    On Aug 26, 2025, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote
    (Message-ID: <108lkb7$hfg$2@reader1.panix.com>):


    The Rapture concept seems to have originated from Robert Bellarmine and Teresa Sanchez Avilla in the Catholic church

    You should read the scriptures, all written well before any of the churches
    of today.

    All God breathed. Many many scriptures of those who will be snatched out of this earth, plus the multiple instances of the resurrections of those who
    have passed on, which will keep occurring until the day that Yeshua sets his feet again on the mount of Olives, to rule this world for 1,000 years.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zebrabible@zebrabible@proton.me to alt.bible,alt.religion.christian on Fri Aug 29 11:20:54 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 16:16:22 -0700, None <none@none.non> wrote:

    On Aug 23, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote >(Message-ID:<mnl9akprq8ufbosu324iiuv43h3fjd79d8@4ax.com>):

    The RAPTURE: Danger Will Robinson

    For those who think it will happen, you have to be prepared. You have
    to be extremely careful near airports. Also up around 30,000 feet+,
    watch out for 747's and others, esp if overcast. You don't want to end
    up on their winshield.

    And pack along some super heavy coats and North Pole gear. At 30,000
    feet the temp will be about -50 F. At 70,000 -65 F. You don't want to
    die of hypothermia before you reach those golden gates.

    But we are not done yet. You must bring along your own oxygen tank.
    Anything above 10.000 feet starts oxygen deprevation. Of course when
    you reach space, there is no breathable oxygen. But maybe a wormhole
    or something will open up before you get to that altitude.

    So where is the rapture in the Bible? Try 1 Thess 4:15-17,

    "15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which
    are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent
    them which are asleep. (KJV)

    [notice the contrast between those ALIVE and those ASLEEP; Not
    conscious]
    16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,
    with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the
    dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together
    with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we
    ever be with the Lord." (KJV)
    [brackets mine]

    Ignoring the satire, Paul and others with him were definitely going to
    Heaven. But did he mean ALL righteous ones? Let's see.

    The churches tell us that all good people go to Heaven. Right? But
    they usually don't say what they do there. Float on clouds, play
    harps? Actually the Bible tells us:

    -- King James
    Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first
    resurrection: on such the second death [lake of fire. see Rev 20:14]
    hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and
    shall reign with him a thousand years.
    [brackets mine]

    So those who were raptured have a job to do in Heaven. They rule with
    Jesus. But if all good people go to Heaven, and all bad people go to
    hellfire, who is left to rule over?

    Again notice:

    - Darby's Bible
    Revelation 5:10 and made them to our God kings and priests; and they
    shall reign over the earth.

    Now many translations say reign "upon the earth". Either word can be
    used, "upon", or "over" according to Strong's, but the first one can't
    be since they rule WITH Jesus. And Jesus will never be seen again on
    the earth:

    -- New King James
    John 14:19 "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more,
    but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also.

    Thus, the ruling has to be from Heaven. But who do they rule over? The
    righteous living on the earth:

    -- New King James
    Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

    --Evangelical Heritage Version
    Ps 37:29 The righteous will inherit the earth. They will dwell on it
    forever.

    So In case you missed it, the righteous have a destination of Heaven
    or the earth . And the rapture is for those going to Heaven and rule
    with Jesus for 1000 years.

    Sincerely James
    "Coping With Rising Prices?
    uManage Your Funds Wisely"

    Given the way you mocked the word of God,

    The satire was given to those who think they are going to be raptured,
    but are not. That is the majority of people.

    and given the way you misunderstood
    and mismanaged the scriptures of God,

    Yet I don't hear you complaining about your translation having the Tetragrammaton TAKEN OUT and "Lord" or "God" INSERTEED in its place of
    around 6000 TIMES! Around 6000 errors is nothing to sneeze at.

    those who read this should take great
    note of this, and ask themselves, how a JW can manage any funds wisely

    ???


    when
    they cannot even manage to to understand and know the >word of God.

    According to your biased OPINION.

    Words, words, words. No empirical evidence. If it makes you feel good
    to talk that way, be my guest. And for those who read this, He gives
    no proof of how terrible we are. I worry about his eternal life. God
    wants people to worship Him with truth. (John 4:23,24) He even seeks
    such ones out.


    The words of God mismanaged as badly as you addressed them here would drive >any who follow you and your ways into the lake of fire and brimstone for >eternal torment and likewise in this life drive people into poverty and >torment should they follow the advise of the JW.

    And pigs can fly. As for me, I always tell people to look up and
    verify anything that I write. I think that is fair, don't you? And
    JW's go strictly by the Holy Bible. No church doctrines, or doctrines
    of men. (which is church doctrines)

    By the way, you just called God a liar. How? By insinuating that God
    created an eternal fiery torture chamber. How demoralizing to accuse a
    God of love. (1 John 4:8)

    Do you torture your misbehaving children? No? Then are you more
    righteous than God who allegedly does?
    GOD NEVER EVER THOUGHT OF SUCH A SADISTIC THING. That principle is
    stated here:

    -- King James
    Jeremiah 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is
    in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their
    daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it
    into my heart.


    Tis a very sad thing to say, but the truth must be shared so as to warn those >that might hear your words to seek God directly, not through the eyes of a >Godless cult.

    This 'Godless cult' is fulfilling Mt 24:14. I don't see the churches
    out there doing that. JW's theme and the Bible's theme are the same.
    Just look at the cover of any Watchtower magazine, which have been
    left at doors for many years.
    As is said, "The proof is in the pudding."

    At any rate, have a great day.

    Sincerely James
    "Will War Ever End?
    Find Out"
    See jw.org 8/29/2025)



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From None@none@none.non to alt.bible, alt.religion.christian on Fri Aug 29 13:15:43 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.bible

    On Aug 29, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<3mc1bklko5grunoo6pqafkr9cnsjc10am2@4ax.com>):

    On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 16:16:22 -0700, None<none@none.non> wrote:

    On Aug 23, 2025, zebrabible@proton.me wrote (Message-ID:<mnl9akprq8ufbosu324iiuv43h3fjd79d8@4ax.com>):

    The RAPTURE: Danger Will Robinson

    For those who think it will happen, you have to be prepared. You have
    to be extremely careful near airports. Also up around 30,000 feet+,
    watch out for 747's and others, esp if overcast. You don't want to end
    up on their winshield.

    And pack along some super heavy coats and North Pole gear. At 30,000
    feet the temp will be about -50 F. At 70,000 -65 F. You don't want to
    die of hypothermia before you reach those golden gates.

    But we are not done yet. You must bring along your own oxygen tank. Anything above 10.000 feet starts oxygen deprevation. Of course when
    you reach space, there is no breathable oxygen. But maybe a wormhole
    or something will open up before you get to that altitude.

    So where is the rapture in the Bible? Try 1 Thess 4:15-17,

    "15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which
    are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent
    them which are asleep. (KJV)

    [notice the contrast between those ALIVE and those ASLEEP; Not
    conscious]
    16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,
    with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the
    dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together
    with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (KJV)
    [brackets mine]

    Ignoring the satire, Paul and others with him were definitely going to Heaven. But did he mean ALL righteous ones? Let's see.

    The churches tell us that all good people go to Heaven. Right? But
    they usually don't say what they do there. Float on clouds, play
    harps? Actually the Bible tells us:

    -- King James
    Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death [lake of fire. see Rev 20:14]
    hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and
    shall reign with him a thousand years.
    [brackets mine]

    So those who were raptured have a job to do in Heaven. They rule with Jesus. But if all good people go to Heaven, and all bad people go to hellfire, who is left to rule over?

    Again notice:

    - Darby's Bible
    Revelation 5:10 and made them to our God kings and priests; and they shall reign over the earth.

    Now many translations say reign "upon the earth". Either word can be used, "upon", or "over" according to Strong's, but the first one can't
    be since they rule WITH Jesus. And Jesus will never be seen again on
    the earth:

    -- New King James
    John 14:19 "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more,
    but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also.

    Thus, the ruling has to be from Heaven. But who do they rule over? The righteous living on the earth:

    -- New King James
    Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

    --Evangelical Heritage Version
    Ps 37:29 The righteous will inherit the earth. They will dwell on it forever.

    So In case you missed it, the righteous have a destination of Heaven
    or the earth . And the rapture is for those going to Heaven and rule
    with Jesus for 1000 years.

    Sincerely James
    "Coping With Rising Prices?
    rCoManage Your Funds Wisely"

    Given the way you mocked the word of God,

    The satire was given to those who think they are going to be raptured,
    but are not. That is the majority of people.

    and given the way you misunderstood
    and mismanaged the scriptures of God,

    Yet I don't hear you complaining about your translation having the Tetragrammaton TAKEN OUT and "Lord" or "God" INSERTEED in its place of
    around 6000 TIMES! Around 6000 errors is nothing to sneeze at.

    Because I new what the Hebrew stated, and I also knew how the Israelite
    priest translated those word into Greek 300 years before the time of Christ.

    From the beginning of your cult it was never and issue, and you are also not part of the original JWrCOs but a subdivision of them.



    those who read this should take great
    note of this, and ask themselves, how a JW can manage any funds wisely

    ???

    OK, for the simple folks, if you cannot understand the word of God and its mysteries revealed, then how in the world would the JW know how to manage their funds?


    when
    they cannot even manage to to understand and know the >word of God.

    According to your biased OPINION.

    Nope, according to scripture and the word of God. Things spiritual cannot be understood in any depth by meatheads/Carnal/Fleshly beings. You do operate by you opinions and are easily led to discard one rCOtruthrCO for another rCOtruthrCO as the dogma of the JW changes. Yet at this point in time you still lack discernment and are easily led by the nose via the propaganda of the watchtower rag.


    Words, words, words. No empirical evidence. If it makes you feel good
    to talk that way, be my guest. And for those who read this, He gives
    no proof of how terrible we are. I worry about his eternal life. God
    wants people to worship Him with truth. (John 4:23,24) He even seeks
    such ones out.

    Gods word is empirical evidence and he further backs up his teachings by signs, wonders, and miracles.

    rCLAnd my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's
    wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.rCY (1Co
    2:4-5)

    That., James, is empirical evidence that strictly adheres to the Promise of Jesus for all those that believe in Him. Not to those that simply acknowledge the he existed or is God.



    The words of God mismanaged as badly as you addressed them here would drive any who follow you and your ways into the lake of fire and brimstone for eternal torment and likewise in this life drive people into poverty and torment should they follow the advise of the JW.

    And pigs can fly. As for me, I always tell people to look up and
    verify anything that I write. I think that is fair, don't you? And
    JW's go strictly by the Holy Bible. No church doctrines, or doctrines
    of men. (which is church doctrines)

    The JWrCOs have their own dogmas and doctrines, all of those change from time to time while God Word never changes. You have been shown countless times the truth of Gods words which you ignore, or change the context so as to deceive others. You blithely excuse that all away, never admitting that you all were just flat out wrong.

    By the way, you just called God a liar. How? By insinuating that God
    created an eternal fiery torture chamber. How demoralizing to accuse a
    God of love. (1 John 4:8)

    You called him a liar. I never mentioned any torture chamber, but a place or torment. Is God a God of Love, certainly, but He is also a judge. Look at
    what happened to Israel when they disobeyed God. Look at what Jesus spoke about it, and also where it mentions that the Lake of Fire was designed for satan and all of his angels. That it was not intended for humans, but that humans will also go there, those that denied Jesus as God and would not
    follow his teachings.

    Hundreds of times I have shared with you the truth of Gods word, especially
    in regards to hell, the pit, and the lake of Fire and Brimstone. You chose to disregard them all, to your peril.


    Do you torture your misbehaving children? No? Then are you more
    righteous than God who allegedly does?

    Those who are sent to a place of torment were not the Children of God, those who were his children but left following God to walk in the Flesh, those who have tasted the good things of God, Stand in Double jeopardy and their punishment is even greater.

    GOD NEVER EVER THOUGHT OF SUCH A SADISTIC THING. That principle is
    stated here:

    Really? Then why does the current JW bible, the NWT, still have those teachings in it?


    -- King James
    Jeremiah 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is
    in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their
    daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it
    into my heart.

    Read and present it in context. They were sacrificing to their gods. It was not for the punishment of their children.



    Tis a very sad thing to say, but the truth must be shared so as to warn those
    that might hear your words to seek God directly, not through the eyes of a Godless cult.

    This 'Godless cult' is fulfilling Mt 24:14. I don't see the churches
    out there doing that. JW's theme and the Bible's theme are the same.
    Just look at the cover of any Watchtower magazine, which have been
    left at doors for many years.
    As is said, "The proof is in the pudding."

    Mud pies are not pudding. No churches do missionary word for the JWrCOs and their false bible.

    Many thousands of believers were sent out into all the world to preach the Gospel, not the doctrines of men. You, of course, never saw them as your eyes were blinded and your ears deafened. Many are sent out to this day. They are anointed of God, and sent out.


    Sincerely James


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2