On 8/19/2024 3:35 PM, BobRoman wrote:

On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 18:21:57 +0000, Bruce wrote:

So Bob, what do you think of Jim's recording of the song he and I wrote?

I always enjoy Jim's guitar. I liked his vocals. I thought he wrote a functional tune for your lyrics.

My suggestion to you for future projects is to pay more attention to the rhythm of your vowels. You have said that you don't care about the
meaning of lyrics but you do care about their sonic qualities. Toward
that end, I would suggest paying more attention to the pattern of open
vs. closed vowels in your verses. Done well (Chuck Berry, Jerry Leiber),
it makes a song fly.

----------
Years ago I studied linguistics, but I don't recall ever hearing about
"open vs. closed vowels." Care to explain what you're talking about here?

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On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 23:34:21 +0000, DianeE wrote:

On 8/19/2024 3:35 PM, BobRoman wrote:

On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 18:21:57 +0000, Bruce wrote:

So Bob, what do you think of Jim's recording of the song he and I wrote?

I always enjoy Jim's guitar. I liked his vocals. I thought he wrote a
functional tune for your lyrics.

My suggestion to you for future projects is to pay more attention to the
rhythm of your vowels. You have said that you don't care about the
meaning of lyrics but you do care about their sonic qualities. Toward
that end, I would suggest paying more attention to the pattern of open
vs. closed vowels in your verses. Done well (Chuck Berry, Jerry Leiber),
it makes a song fly.

----------
Years ago I studied linguistics, but I don't recall ever hearing about
"open vs. closed vowels." Care to explain what you're talking about
here?

An open vowel is a vowel sound that occurs when the tongue is positioned
as far away from the roof of the mouth as possible. In U.S. terminology,
open vowels are sometimes called low vowels because of the low position
of the tongue.

An open syllable is a syllable that ends with a vowel sound that is
spelled with a single vowel letter (a, e, i, o, or u) and has no
consonants blocking the vowel. The vowel sound is long and says its
name, such as "A", "E", "I", "O", or "U". For example, the words "hi",
"no", "she", "he", "we", and "so" all have open syllables. Open
syllables can also be found within words, such as the word "tiger",
which has an open syllable at the front ("ti").

A closed vowel is a vowel that is followed by a consonant and makes a
short sound. For example, the word "hat" has a closed syllable in the
"at" part because it ends with the consonant sound /t/, which makes the
vowel sound /æ/ short. Here are some more examples of closed vowels:
dish, bas/ket, sit, rabbit, cap, and up.

In a closed syllable, the consonant "closes in" the vowel, which is why
it's called a closed syllable. A syllable can have more than one
consonant closing it in, like in the words "dish" and "stretch". Many multisyllable words, like "insect", "rabbit", and "napkin", also contain
closed syllables.

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On 8/14/2024 12:02 AM, RWC wrote:

On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 18:29:43 -0500, Jim Colegrove
<coolg@thecoolgroove.com> wrote:

On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 13:32:30 +0000, bbug2@optonline.net (bbug) wrote:

Who's doing the vocals?

Jim is.

If you can only find a spot for Bruce on the recording, I thought of a
good name for the artists:

Chip & Dip

DipChip would be better.

That goes with the recording nicely, well done!

---------
I don't get it, what's the meaning?

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On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 09:51:14 -0400, DianeE <DianeE@NoSpam.net> wrote:

On 8/14/2024 12:02 AM, RWC wrote:

On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 18:29:43 -0500, Jim Colegrove
<coolg@thecoolgroove.com> wrote:

On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 13:32:30 +0000, bbug2@optonline.net (bbug) wrote:

Who's doing the vocals?

Jim is.

If you can only find a spot for Bruce on the recording, I thought of a >>>> good name for the artists:

Chip & Dip

DipChip would be better.

That goes with the recording nicely, well done!

---------
I don't get it, what's the meaning?

I don't know about Geoff's angle.

Joke from my brain. It's a word that could easily be uttered by a DJ
in a hurry as "dipshit" like a tongue twister.

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On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 05:55:11 +0000, savoybg@aol.com (Bruce) wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 4:09:45 +0000, RWC wrote:

On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:54:07 +0000, savoybg@aol.com (Bruce) wrote:

On Sat, 10 Aug 2024 16:37:48 +0000, Bruce wrote:

Jim and I wrote another song together. Do you guys remember a couple of >>>> years ago I dashed off the words to a rockabilly song to show Dean how >>>> easy it was and what type of lyrics belonged in rockabilly. Here are
those lyrics.

ROCK AND ROLL MAMA
Words by Bruce Grossberg
Music by Jim Colegrove


Well I got a baby who can't be beat
She's the hottest woman on two feet
Every guy in town wants to steal her away
But I never worry because there's no way

She and I go out and ball all night
We're so cool together, never had a fight
When the night is over and we're all alone
I make her scream and she makes me moan

She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
Rockin' all night and day

FIRST GUITAR BREAK

My baby and me will last forever
We'll never part, no, no, no, never
She's the sweetest thing that I've ever had
Always makes me happy, never makes me sad

She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
Rockin' all night and day

SECOND GUITAR BREAK

I've never been so happy in my life
As when my sweet girl became my wife
I know that me and her will never part
Because we love each other with all our heart

She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
Rockin' all night and day

Extremely strong R&B influence here!

Clearly rockabilly is the Southern white man's take on rhythm and blues.
Lots of rockabilly records from that time mention rhythm and blues.

Perfectly stated.

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On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:12:50 +0000, Jim Colegrove wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 05:55:11 +0000, savoybg@aol.com (Bruce) wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 4:09:45 +0000, RWC wrote:

On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:54:07 +0000, savoybg@aol.com (Bruce) wrote:

On Sat, 10 Aug 2024 16:37:48 +0000, Bruce wrote:

Jim and I wrote another song together. Do you guys remember a couple of >>>>> years ago I dashed off the words to a rockabilly song to show Dean how >>>>> easy it was and what type of lyrics belonged in rockabilly. Here are >>>>> those lyrics.

ROCK AND ROLL MAMA
Words by Bruce Grossberg
Music by Jim Colegrove


Well I got a baby who can't be beat
She's the hottest woman on two feet
Every guy in town wants to steal her away
But I never worry because there's no way

She and I go out and ball all night
We're so cool together, never had a fight
When the night is over and we're all alone
I make her scream and she makes me moan

She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
Rockin' all night and day

FIRST GUITAR BREAK

My baby and me will last forever
We'll never part, no, no, no, never
She's the sweetest thing that I've ever had
Always makes me happy, never makes me sad

She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
Rockin' all night and day

SECOND GUITAR BREAK

I've never been so happy in my life
As when my sweet girl became my wife
I know that me and her will never part
Because we love each other with all our heart

She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
Rockin' all night and day

Extremely strong R&B influence here!

Clearly rockabilly is the Southern white man's take on rhythm and blues. >>Lots of rockabilly records from that time mention rhythm and blues.

Perfectly stated.

Absolutely!

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On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 19:20:38 +0000, mariabus@blueyonder.co.uk (Roger)
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:12:50 +0000, Jim Colegrove wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 05:55:11 +0000, savoybg@aol.com (Bruce) wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 4:09:45 +0000, RWC wrote:

Extremely strong R&B influence here!

Clearly rockabilly is the Southern white man's take on rhythm and blues. >>>Lots of rockabilly records from that time mention rhythm and blues.

Perfectly stated.

Absolutely!

Yes, Jim and Roger, I've often heard the following or similar lyrics
in White Rockabilly music:

When the night is over and we're all alone
I make her scream and she makes me moan

I've never had Roger's awesome, off the top of one's head, music
memory, so perhaps Roger (and/or Jim, Steve) can remind us of some
50s/Cusp Rockabilly songs that had such lyrics.

If needed as a memory jogger, this Rockabilly lyrics site might help: https://rockabillyrules.com/lyrics/

:-)

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On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 22:35:21 +0000, RWC wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 19:20:38 +0000, mariabus@blueyonder.co.uk (Roger)
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:12:50 +0000, Jim Colegrove wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 05:55:11 +0000, savoybg@aol.com (Bruce) wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 4:09:45 +0000, RWC wrote:

Extremely strong R&B influence here!

Clearly rockabilly is the Southern white man's take on rhythm and blues. >>>>Lots of rockabilly records from that time mention rhythm and blues.

Perfectly stated.

Absolutely!

Yes, Jim and Roger, I've often heard the following or similar lyrics
in White Rockabilly music:

When the night is over and we're all alone
I make her scream and she makes me moan

I've never had Roger's awesome, off the top of one's head, music
memory, so perhaps Roger (and/or Jim, Steve) can remind us of some
50s/Cusp Rockabilly songs that had such lyrics.

If needed as a memory jogger, this Rockabilly lyrics site might help: https://rockabillyrules.com/lyrics/

If anybody wrote those kind of suggestive lyrics back then they likely
never made it on to the final recording.

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On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 19:20:38 +0000, Roger wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:12:50 +0000, Jim Colegrove wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 05:55:11 +0000, savoybg@aol.com (Bruce) wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 4:09:45 +0000, RWC wrote:

On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:54:07 +0000, savoybg@aol.com (Bruce) wrote:

On Sat, 10 Aug 2024 16:37:48 +0000, Bruce wrote:

Jim and I wrote another song together. Do you guys remember a couple of >>>>>> years ago I dashed off the words to a rockabilly song to show Dean how >>>>>> easy it was and what type of lyrics belonged in rockabilly. Here are >>>>>> those lyrics.

ROCK AND ROLL MAMA
Words by Bruce Grossberg
Music by Jim Colegrove


Well I got a baby who can't be beat
She's the hottest woman on two feet
Every guy in town wants to steal her away
But I never worry because there's no way

She and I go out and ball all night
We're so cool together, never had a fight
When the night is over and we're all alone
I make her scream and she makes me moan

She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
Rockin' all night and day

FIRST GUITAR BREAK

My baby and me will last forever
We'll never part, no, no, no, never
She's the sweetest thing that I've ever had
Always makes me happy, never makes me sad

She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
Rockin' all night and day

SECOND GUITAR BREAK

I've never been so happy in my life
As when my sweet girl became my wife
I know that me and her will never part
Because we love each other with all our heart

She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
Rockin' all night and day

Extremely strong R&B influence here!

Clearly rockabilly is the Southern white man's take on rhythm and blues. >>>Lots of rockabilly records from that time mention rhythm and blues.

Perfectly stated.

Absolutely!

So Rog, what do you think of the recording?

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On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 23:17:30 +0000, Bruce wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 19:20:38 +0000, Roger wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:12:50 +0000, Jim Colegrove wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 05:55:11 +0000, savoybg@aol.com (Bruce) wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 4:09:45 +0000, RWC wrote:

On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:54:07 +0000, savoybg@aol.com (Bruce) wrote:

On Sat, 10 Aug 2024 16:37:48 +0000, Bruce wrote:

Jim and I wrote another song together. Do you guys remember a couple of >>>>>>> years ago I dashed off the words to a rockabilly song to show Dean how >>>>>>> easy it was and what type of lyrics belonged in rockabilly. Here are >>>>>>> those lyrics.

ROCK AND ROLL MAMA
Words by Bruce Grossberg
Music by Jim Colegrove


Well I got a baby who can't be beat
She's the hottest woman on two feet
Every guy in town wants to steal her away
But I never worry because there's no way

She and I go out and ball all night
We're so cool together, never had a fight
When the night is over and we're all alone
I make her scream and she makes me moan

She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
Rockin' all night and day

FIRST GUITAR BREAK

My baby and me will last forever
We'll never part, no, no, no, never
She's the sweetest thing that I've ever had
Always makes me happy, never makes me sad

She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
Rockin' all night and day

SECOND GUITAR BREAK

I've never been so happy in my life
As when my sweet girl became my wife
I know that me and her will never part
Because we love each other with all our heart

She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
She's a rock, rock, rock and roll mama
Rockin' all night and day

Extremely strong R&B influence here!

Clearly rockabilly is the Southern white man's take on rhythm and blues. >>>>Lots of rockabilly records from that time mention rhythm and blues.

Perfectly stated.

Absolutely!

So Rog, what do you think of the recording?

It's very good tho "Baby Let's Play House","Blue Suede Shoes" and "One
Hand Loose" can still sleep soundly at the top of my personal rockabilly
chart. Jim's instrumentation is excellent and your lyrics fit the bill
well. Not bad for someone who (just like me) doesn't usually give them
that much attention :-)

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On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 5:09:21 +0000, Roger wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 23:17:30 +0000, Bruce wrote:

So Rog, what do you think of the recording?

It's very good tho "Baby Let's Play House","Blue Suede Shoes" and "One
Hand Loose" can still sleep soundly at the top of my personal rockabilly chart. Jim's instrumentation is excellent and your lyrics fit the bill
well. Not bad for someone who (just like me) doesn't usually give them
that much attention :-)

Funny, I had those as the top 3 on the GREATEST ROCKABILLY SONGS list I
did for DDD. CLEARLY to me the Mount Rushmore of rockabilly acts is
Elvis, Perkins, Feathers and the Burnette Trio.

https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_songs-rbilly-x.html

I've got "Rock And Roll Mama" as an 8. That's amazing for something just recorded now. If this was 50 years ago I'd put it on a 45 and I'm sure
you would have moved a lot of copies in your store.

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Pretty good, but not my style.

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On 8/20/2024 9:23 PM, Bruce wrote:

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 23:34:21 +0000, DianeE wrote:

On 8/19/2024 3:35 PM, BobRoman wrote:

On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 18:21:57 +0000, Bruce wrote:

So Bob, what do you think of Jim's recording of the song he and I
wrote?

I always enjoy Jim's guitar. I liked his vocals. I thought he wrote a
functional tune for your lyrics.

My suggestion to you for future projects is to pay more attention to the >>> rhythm of your vowels. You have said that you don't care about the
meaning of lyrics but you do care about their sonic qualities. Toward
that end, I would suggest paying more attention to the pattern of open
vs. closed vowels in your verses. Done well (Chuck Berry, Jerry Leiber), >>> it makes a song fly.

----------
Years ago I studied linguistics, but I don't recall ever hearing about
"open vs. closed vowels."  Care to explain what you're talking about
here?

An open vowel is a vowel sound that occurs when the tongue is positioned
as far away from the roof of the mouth as possible. In U.S. terminology,
open vowels are sometimes called low vowels because of the low position
of the tongue.

An open syllable is a syllable that ends with a vowel sound that is
spelled with a single vowel letter (a, e, i, o, or u) and has no
consonants blocking the vowel. The vowel sound is long and says its
name, such as "A", "E", "I", "O", or "U". For example, the words "hi",
"no", "she", "he", "we", and "so" all have open syllables. Open
syllables can also be found within words, such as the word "tiger",
which has an open syllable at the front ("ti").

A closed vowel is a vowel that is followed by a consonant and makes a
short sound. For example, the word "hat" has a closed syllable in the
"at" part because it ends with the consonant sound /t/, which makes the
vowel sound /æ/ short. Here are some more examples of closed vowels:
dish, bas/ket, sit, rabbit, cap, and up.

In a closed syllable, the consonant "closes in" the vowel, which is why
it's called a closed syllable. A syllable can have more than one
consonant closing it in, like in the words "dish" and "stretch". Many multisyllable words, like "insect", "rabbit", and "napkin", also contain closed syllables.

-----------
I can't believe that Jerry Leiber and Chuck Berry consciously took this
into consideration when writing lyrics. Perhaps they had a gut instinct
that told them A sounds better than B, but the idea that they actually
thought about this just seems totally crazy to me.

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On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 10:52:30 +0000, bbug wrote:

Pretty good, but not my style.

How about you write some lyrics for something that IS your style and we
get AI to make a recording out of it :-)

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On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 6:38:33 +0000, Bruce wrote:

On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 5:09:21 +0000, Roger wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 23:17:30 +0000, Bruce wrote:

So Rog, what do you think of the recording?

It's very good tho "Baby Let's Play House","Blue Suede Shoes" and "One
Hand Loose" can still sleep soundly at the top of my personal rockabilly
chart. Jim's instrumentation is excellent and your lyrics fit the bill
well. Not bad for someone who (just like me) doesn't usually give them
that much attention :-)

Funny, I had those as the top 3 on the GREATEST ROCKABILLY SONGS list I
did for DDD. CLEARLY to me the Mount Rushmore of rockabilly acts is
Elvis, Perkins, Feathers and the Burnette Trio.

https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_songs-rbilly-x.html

I've got "Rock And Roll Mama" as an 8. That's amazing for something just recorded now. If this was 50 years ago I'd put it on a 45 and I'm sure
you would have moved a lot of copies in your store.

Of course. Over here lots of people always want records like this to
turn them into
decorative ashtrays :)

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On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 4:24:30 +0000, Dean wrote:

No doubt about it; Bruce got excellent mileage out of that rhyming dictionary!

There's such a thing as a rhyming dictionary?

I guess you would know.

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"If anybody wrote those kind of suggestive lyrics back then they likely
never made it on to the final recording."


Was there a reason for the "suggestive lyrics? I'm sure you could have
found clean lyrics which provided the same acoustic sound. If there was
a reason, that would belie your oft stated profession that lyrics mean
nothing to you beyond their acoustic contribution to the overall sound.

There was a ton of off color recordings that were released back then.

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On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 10:29:55 +0000, bbug wrote:

"If anybody wrote those kind of suggestive lyrics back then they likely
never made it on to the final recording."

Was there a reason for the "suggestive lyrics? I'm sure you could have
found clean lyrics which provided the same acoustic sound. If there was
a reason, that would belie your oft stated profession that lyrics mean nothing to you beyond their acoustic contribution to the overall sound.

They mean nothing to me as a listener, but I wasn't writing the lyrics
just for myself. Lyrics mean something to most listeners, so as a song
writer I chose to give them something to pay attention to. It doesn't
mater to me either way, so why not give something to those who it does
matter to?

There was a ton of off color recordings that were released back then.

Can you point to an example of an off color rockabilly record from the
50s
that wasn't a cover or remake of somebody else's song?

Essentially all of the off color records from the 50s originated in the
Black community. They were a lot more open and honest about how
important
sex was to people. Whites more or less pretended that sex did not exist.

Notice the change in words on songs like "At My Front Door" between the
El Dorados version and Boone's version.

El Dorados - Looking for my baby but she wasn't there.
Boone - I telephoned my baby and she wasn't there.

Boone and Dot did not want to make it seem like clean cut
white guy Pat had spent the night with his baby.

Tutti-Fruitti

Richard - She rocks me to the east, she rocks me to the west
Boone - I been to the east, I been to the west.

Of course the real lyrics that Richard was singing live at the time
in front of black audiences were far more off color (Tutti Fruitti,
good booty).

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Here is another song that Jim wrote and played on, from 1961.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxT-EweWZtY

The flip is not on Youtube, it's called "Golden Idol."

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Here is Jim's big number from 1960 when he was the lead guitarist in
Teddy And The Rough Riders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRhVANDHP5I

And here is the instrumental that Jim and I wrote together in 2013.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5VNa1kPCmI

I'm reading an article about Teddy and the Rough Riders from a UK mag
called "Pipeline" that is all about instrumental rock and roll. The
article comes from an interview with Jim. You can see the cover of the
issue at this link. It's the 12th one down on the right side.

http://www.pipelinemag.co.uk/?page_id=23

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Was there a reason for the "suggestive lyrics? I'm sure you could have

found clean lyrics which provided the same acoustic sound. If there was
a reason, that would belie your oft stated profession that lyrics mean
nothing to you beyond their acoustic contribution to the overall sound.

They mean nothing to me as a listener, but I wasn't writing the lyrics
just for myself. Lyrics mean something to most listeners, so as a song
writer I chose to give them something to pay attention to. It doesn't
mater to me either way, so why not give something to those who it does
matter to?

Oh I see, pandering. Stifling your creativity for profit. Isn't that
selling out and what Billy Joel was accused of by many here (not me, but probably you)?

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On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 20:38:34 +0000, bbug wrote:

Was there a reason for the "suggestive lyrics? I'm sure you could have

found clean lyrics which provided the same acoustic sound. If there was
a reason, that would belie your oft stated profession that lyrics mean
nothing to you beyond their acoustic contribution to the overall sound.

They mean nothing to me as a listener, but I wasn't writing the lyrics
just for myself. Lyrics mean something to most listeners, so as a song >>writer I chose to give them something to pay attention to. It doesn't
mater to me either way, so why not give something to those who it does >>matter to?

Oh I see, pandering. Stifling your creativity for profit. Isn't that
selling out and what Billy Joel was accused of by many here (not me, but probably you)?

I hope you are right and that it ends up that I did it for PROFIT!

I was a club and party DJ for about 20 years, and guess what? I played
lots of stuff that I did not like, or even hated, ALL FOR PROFIT!

When I was DJing, or officiating baseball or basketball, I wasn't not
there for myself. I'm there representing the assignor and the
association that I belong to as an official, and as a DJ I am there to entertain the customers of the person paying me, or in the case of
parties, to entertain the person or organization that hired me and their guests.

If I am at a baseball game for myself as a spectator, I don't stand for
the national anthem, as it was written by a slave owner. But if I am
there as an umpire who is on the field, then I stand and take my hat off
as I am representing others at that time, and I have to be conform to
the standards that are established if I want to umpire those games. Very simple.

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So are you admitting to pandering and selling out, or claiming that you
are representing the interests of Jim?

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On 8/17/2024 5:49 AM, bbug wrote:

So are you admitting to pandering and selling out, or claiming that you
are representing the interests of Jim?

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It's not the interests of Jim. Jim has been very generous with his time
and talents. It's the interests of people who like rockabilly.

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