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Another point - which is connected to what I Said before - I want to
make is, that the murder of Eichmann was justified - but that we can’t
use reason to justify this Morally. It is generally very difficult to
come up with moral justifications maybe…
But you can _feel_ (at least if your Soul hasnt been corrupted like that
of pluted and other antisemites) that the murder of Eichmann was
justified.
As Walter Benjamin Said „The death penalty can be moral, but Never its justification“
—
Just some further thoughts that came up in my mind:
So say when it comes to the Prohibition of circumcision… morally it is difficult to justify this in some way, because ofc Jews will be hurt and Judaism gives them life… ofc Judaism is an Ideology and Not true, but
in This cold and Capitalist World people find *solace in faith, and I
feel with and for them — i do not want to take this Away from them. Otoh
I See the barbarism and the pain and death that circumcision causes… so
I have to go against that
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 5:42:43 +0000, Frank Berger wrote:
On 2/21/2025 4:40 AM, Zionazi wrote:
Or rather the Moral imperative is to follow This guideline. But it does
not forbid murder — as many people (Not orthodox Jews, because there is >>> Capital Punishment in Judaism) seem to believe.
It’s just many people don’t have an eye for Details.. Pope Francis
abandoned the death Penalty eh?
The Problem with christianity is this Ideology of „turning the other
cheek“ (especially Protestants seem to have fallen prey for this idiocy) >>> — Id argue that Christian socialization made many people in the West too >>> soft-hearted, Like they turned people into These do-gooders, into These
wannabe good Samaritans
I can't follow what you are trying to say. In Judaism, God said not to
commit murder. He did not say not to kill. Killing is OK in certain
circumstances - self-defense (but not even always then), just wars,
etc., a few other instances. The requirements for capital punishment are
strict. It is traditionally believed that capital punishment was rare,
even in antiquity.
The dude understands neither English, nor Hebrew,
and even his German is sketchy. No point arguing
with him.
As my friend Mark used to say "never wrestle with
a pig. You just get dirty and the pig enjoys it".
Cheers!
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 5:42:43 +0000, Frank Berger wrote:
On 2/21/2025 4:40 AM, Zionazi wrote:
Or rather the Moral imperative is to follow This guideline. But it does
not forbid murder — as many people (Not orthodox Jews, because there is >>> Capital Punishment in Judaism) seem to believe.
It’s just many people don’t have an eye for Details.. Pope Francis
abandoned the death Penalty eh?
The Problem with christianity is this Ideology of „turning the other
cheek“ (especially Protestants seem to have fallen prey for this idiocy) >>> — Id argue that Christian socialization made many people in the West too >>> soft-hearted, Like they turned people into These do-gooders, into These
wannabe good Samaritans
I can't follow what you are trying to say. In Judaism, God said not to
commit murder. He did not say not to kill. Killing is OK in certain
I can’t speak Hebrew, but according to Google translation „לֹא תִּרְצָח“
translates to „though shall not murder“. Same in German. Now you can
also Interpret This as „do Not murder“ — but there is a difference in These two Phrases - in their meaning - to „You _must_ Not murder“.
In Judaism it is Not only okay to kill someone in certain situations,
but also to murder someone in certain situations.
really understand the distinctions im Making Here. One distinction im
Making is between „You _shall_ Not murder“/„_do_ not murder“ and „You
_must_ not murder“
There is Capital punishment in Judaism, so obviously murdering someone
is allowed.
then Hang him, You’re murdering him (according to the Mosaic law,
Capital punishment is Applied to murderers — such as Eichmann).
The Point Im trying to make is simple: Judaism allows murder, and the commandment is just a General guideline — not a Prohibition to murder.
circumstances - self-defense (but not even always then), just wars,
etc., a few other instances. The requirements for capital punishment are
strict. It is traditionally believed that capital punishment was rare,
even in antiquity.
So You See, murder is allowed in Judaism.
On Mon, 24 Feb 2025 6:51:08 +0000, Frank Berger wrote:
Yes, but he's a well meaning pig, I think. Maybe a piglet.
How am I even a piglet, Frank? I think the pigs are the people who
mutilate the dicks of their sons claiming god wanted them to do so.
On Mon, 24 Feb 2025 6:45:07 +0000, Frank Berger wrote:
So say when it comes to the Prohibition of circumcision… morally it is >>> difficult to justify this in some way, because ofc Jews will be hurt and >>> Judaism gives them life… ofc Judaism is an Ideology and Not true, but >>> in This cold and Capitalist World people find *solace in faith, and I
feel with and for them — i do not want to take this Away from them. Otoh >>> I See the barbarism and the pain and death that circumcision causes… so >>> I have to go against that
You are talking about what YOU feel. YOUR opinions. You are entitled
to them. Regarding religions practices. If a representative government
decides to prohibit some religious practice, like cannibalism,
circumcision, kosher slaughtering, whatever, it can, IMO legitimately do
so. If the practicers of these abominable practices wish to continue
doing them, they will have to go elsewhere where they are allowed, do
them illegally, risking punishment. So what you need to do is organize
and get these practices banned, instead of blabbering here.
No -- what I'm saying is objective. What you're saying is utterly
subjective.
description of reality,
claiming god wanted you to do so -- you're just completely brainwashed.
For these practices to be banned, there needs to be a consciousness
among the people that is able to understand why it should be banned --
as we can see here, most people are either too stupid or too brainwashed
to even understand the issue here.
There are plenty of organizations that are trying to get circumcision
banned, I was just trying to open up your mind -- you're too brainwashed though.
On Mon, 24 Feb 2025 6:34:51 +0000, Frank Berger wrote:
On 2/23/2025 5:52 AM, Zionazi wrote:
I can’t speak Hebrew, but according to Google translation „לֹא תִּרְצָח“
translates to „though shall not murder“. Same in German. Now you can >>> also Interpret This as „do Not murder“ — but there is a difference in >>> These two Phrases - in their meaning - to „You _must_ Not murder“.
In Judaism it is Not only okay to kill someone in certain situations,
but also to murder someone in certain situations.
By definition, it is not ok to murder. Ever.
The problem with you Frank, is that you're utterly brainwashed by
Judaism.
Let me try to help you see things a little more clearly:
According to the mosaic law capital punishment is for example to be
applied to idol worshippers (now you don't need to go into details here,
say that there would be a minimum of 23 Sanhedrin adjudicating in that person's trial or whatever).
From a secular perspective this would constitute murder, since the
person you are condemning to death is innocent from a secular
perspective. From a secular perspective this would constitute unlawful killing, meaning murder (at least if the disinction you are making
between murder and killing, is that murder constitute "unlawful
killing").
From a secular perspective there is nothing wrong with changing one's
faith, only from the mosaic law there is somethign wrong with that (*you
have been brainwashed Frank).
This is similar to a ruling in Islam; in Islam there is a death penalty
for apostasy -- now Muslims who have been brainwashed by Islam (similar
to how you have been brainwashed by Judaism), would argue similarly to
you, saying that, since the death penalty is apparently sanctioned by
god, it would not constitute murder. But guess what... killing someone
for becoming atheist or changing one's religion constitutes murder from
a secular perspective.
Seems Like You don’t
really understand the distinctions im Making Here. One distinction im
Making is between „You _shall_ Not murder“/„_do_ not murder“ and „You
_must_ not murder“
I think you are making up distinctions that don't exist. Just because
the English translations vary doesn't necessarily mean anything. If you
want to talk sensibly from a Jewish perspective, you must consult Jewish
sources, not make stuff up.
I am not making anything up; the correct translation according to Rabbis
is "though _shall_ not murder" -- now you can ask yourself, why god (as
if he was responsible for this nonsense called Torah), didn't write "You _must_ not murder". There is a difference in meaning here.
You seem to be incapable of understanding the issue here.
There is Capital punishment in Judaism, so obviously murdering someone
is allowed.
What are you talking about? Executing someone in accordance with Jewish
law is not "murder."
If you imprison Eichmann — he‘s not a threat anymore — and
then Hang him, You’re murdering him (according to the Mosaic law,
Capital punishment is Applied to murderers — such as Eichmann).
The fact that Eichmann was executed doesn't have anything to do with
Jewish law. Israel is not a theocracy. Did the Israeli government check
with Rabbis before executing Eichmann? If they did, and the execution
was green lighted by them then the execution wasn't murder, again by
definition. If the execution violated some of the requirements of a
legal Jewish execution, then maybe you could call it murder (from a
Halachic point of view). Not from the point of view of the State,
though.
When it comes to Eichmann, I was wrong - even from a secular Israeli perspective this does not constitute murder (at least if you define
murder as "unlawful killing of an innocent person) -- he was neither innocent, nor was it against the secular law of Israel. I actually
believe Rabbis would have condemned him to death as well.
From my perspective - which might be wrong -; the difference between murdering and killing is the following though - or at least that's how I viewed it in my previous posts:
Killing is if you are either in a war or have to defend yourself, or you accidently drive someone over etc. -- you have no choice
Murder is if the other person doesn't pose an immediate threat to you anymore, but you still kill him. -- you have a choice
The Point Im trying to make is simple: Judaism allows murder, and the
commandment is just a General guideline — not a Prohibition to murder. >>>
You are not making sense.
I am, it's just that you've been utterly brainwashed by Judaism.
circumstances - self-defense (but not even always then), just wars,
etc., a few other instances. The requirements for capital punishment
are
strict. It is traditionally believed that capital punishment was rare, >>>> even in antiquity.
So You See, murder is allowed in Judaism.
Wrong. Completely. Mind boggeling.
No, from a secular perspective it is allowed, as I've illustrated.
Putting the death penalty on an idol-worshipper (which is not a sin nor
any sort of problem from a secular perspective) is murder.
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 3:09:10 +0000, Frank Berger wrote:
The commandment is Thou shall not murder.
Of course, "murder" has to defined.
?!? What non-sensical hair splitting !!!
"Murder" has to be "defined" ?!?
Is this what your rabbies teach?
We all know what murder is. No
need for lawyerly hair splitting.
Cheers!