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"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:vrmdsr$207r$1@dont-email.me...
Hardwood end grain bearings held up for a while under light loading,
they needed to be easily and frequently replaced.
The point of that rambling is that I could buy a good solution at
substantial expense or build an adequate one with basic machine tools, without either my attempts at rotating machinery were necessarily pre-industrial and largely made of wood, more models than practical productive machines. The fit and alignment of shafts and bearings was
the main limitation. My only partial success was assembling small air compressors before relatively inexpensive imported ones became
available in the 1980's.
The Holtzapffel series and "De Re Metallica" show the state and
difficulties of mechanical technology before Maudslay's precision
lathe revolutionized it in 1797. "English and American Tool Builders" describes the rapid progress it enabled. https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/72046
Some of the machine tools mentioned and shown in engravings are in the American Precision Museum in Vermont. New England has also preserved
some of its early industrial heritage.
https://americanprecision.org/
"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1pli7mqt6.fsf@void.com...Around sixty years ago, I built a device to mix around hundred pound
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:
....
Getting a lathe again might come into view, if projects take-off.
A reality I need to get through is processing some ore with a bucking
hammer and a bucking plate - hit and grind with a flat-faced "hammer" on
a flat hard plate.
Then get a "Mark 1/2" rod-mill going.
If this is "sofar so good" and progressing - workshop then comes into
view.
------------------------------------------------
An inexpensive rock tumbler might serve as proof-of-concept within its
limits of motor torque and roller friction. Adding pulleys to drive the >second roller from the first helps with friction.
You could build a larger one with keyed shafting, hardware store pulleys and >heater hose rollers. They are simple and imprecise enough to use pressed-in >nylon sleeve bearings. >https://www.amazon.com/Diameter-KEYED-Shaft-Choose-Length/dp/B0DM74LGM3?th=1 >https://www.amazon.com/HARFINGTON-Flanged-Sleeve-Bearings-Bushings/dp/B0C3C1B8YM?
On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 18:13:23 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1pli7mqt6.fsf@void.com...Around sixty years ago, I built a device to mix around hundred pound
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:
....
...
...
batches of a sulphur, sand,+, + mixture in a lidded paper drum. I
built a wood frame to mount in line pairs of wringer washer rollers.
IIRC the shafts ran in 5/8" pillow blocks with heater hose as a
flexible coupling and powered by a 1/4 HP electric motor. To prevent
lumps I threw in a half dozen river rocks @~3 lb. each. since almost everything but the pillow blocks came frome my personal stock of "Good Stuff", the total cost amounted to less than $20. Seems to me, I added
a furniture caster at each end to avoid end travel.
A latter employer used the same mixture but a commercial ball mill to
mix it after I explained my method.
http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/rodmill/250318_rodmill.html
"Rod mill - March 2025"
Early stage "blagging" materials, and thoughts leading there.
Someone I know has a "stash" of good-assay tin ore.
Plus other ores might be obtained.
Regards, Rich S
"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1zfhh1j3v.fsf@void.com... ---------------------------------------
A hydraulic cylinder rebuilder may be a source of used or cutoffs of case-hardened steel rod, cylinders and end caps. The rods could be
either hard chromed or nitrided, the used rods pitted and cylinders internally scratched.
The only cost to me was pretending to appreciate the owner's extensive
cell phone photo album after I showed him pix of what I was building
to prove my credibility.
"Richard Smith" wrote in message
...
------------------------------------ https://www.911metallurgist.com/blog/assaying-tin/
On 3/19/2025 2:10 AM, Richard Smith wrote:
http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/rodmill/250318_rodmill.html
"Rod mill - March 2025"
Early stage "blagging" materials, and thoughts leading there.
Someone I know has a "stash" of good-assay tin ore.
Plus other ores might be obtained.
Regards, Rich S
Why is a rolling mill better than a stamping mill? Is it better?
I only ask, because many years ago a friend of my dad's had a lode
claim (gold) with a pretty good assay, but it was all very fine wire
and lens throughout the rock. They talked about the fact that they
would have to haul basically unsorted raw ore several miles to set up
a stamping plant due to proximity around the claim of a wildlife
preserve and a military reservation. Looking at what you have there
it seems like a rolling mill could be quite small compared to the sort
of stamping plant they were talking about. I always wondered why they couldn't crush and partially sort on site. It was ultra fine gold
though. You could pick up a rock the size of your fist and see tiny
little glints all over it.
I don't know who holds that claim today, but at to day's price of gold
I wouldn't be surprised if somebody who knows about the location isn't
out there working it or jumping it. Gold was over $3000 spot as of yesterday when I was in a local buyer's office. I sold some silver yesterday. Not going to say what the assay numbers were, because I
could misremember, its high and might incite rogues, and they could
have been exaggerating to try and entice investors.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m134f1egx2.fsf@void.com...
Gerry <geraldrmiller@yahoo.ca> writes:
....
On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 18:13:23 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"....
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
...
More than one turn of rope on the drum will walk sideways.
...
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:
On 3/19/2025 2:10 AM, Richard Smith wrote:
http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/rodmill/250318_rodmill.html
"Rod mill - March 2025"
Early stage "blagging" materials, and thoughts leading there.
Someone I know has a "stash" of good-assay tin ore.
Plus other ores might be obtained.
Regards, Rich S
Why is a rolling mill better than a stamping mill? Is it better?
I only ask, because many years ago a friend of my dad's had a lode
claim (gold) with a pretty good assay, but it was all very fine wire
and lens throughout the rock. They talked about the fact that they
would have to haul basically unsorted raw ore several miles to set up
a stamping plant due to proximity around the claim of a wildlife
preserve and a military reservation. Looking at what you have there
it seems like a rolling mill could be quite small compared to the sort
of stamping plant they were talking about. I always wondered why they
couldn't crush and partially sort on site. It was ultra fine gold
though. You could pick up a rock the size of your fist and see tiny
little glints all over it.
I don't know who holds that claim today, but at to day's price of gold
I wouldn't be surprised if somebody who knows about the location isn't
out there working it or jumping it. Gold was over $3000 spot as of
yesterday when I was in a local buyer's office. I sold some silver
yesterday. Not going to say what the assay numbers were, because I
could misremember, its high and might incite rogues, and they could
have been exaggerating to try and entice investors.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
Huge caveat
* I am sub-novice at mineral processing *
!!!
I am *looking forward to* using a hammer and plate, then a vanning
shovel, to separate black tin from know excellent ore, to put it in perspective.
There are rolls - which are a bit specialist - a nip angle which will
grip means big rolls for small max. feed size and small reduction ratio.
Look up "rod-mill".
They are usually bbiiiggggg!!!
They come between the crushing stage - usually primary and secondary -
and the fine-grinding stages.
For an "artisan" mine - a size big enough to break up the run-of-mine
ore would be a behemoth with a tonnes/hour which would swallow the
year's production in minutes - infeasible.
Grinding is usually done wet. Desert? Water scarce/expensive?
Stamp mills are also usually used/done wet (?)
Taking it you've got to work "dry"...
Grizzlies and sledgehammer (or dynamite) to break up rocks to manageable "feed size"
Crusher - likely jaw crusher. Small/manageable given feed passes
through a grizzly. Even if can't separate at the mine, gives a dense self-packing load to transport.
Okay - I can see where this is heading...
Every form of separation needs water...
This is desert?
Might be a reason which forces transporting the crushed no-separation run-of-mine ore.
I doubt the ore could be "overground" - so ball-mill "a lot", but could "pancake" the gold particles and make the likes of shaker-tables (need water!) less effective. So grind you could at the mine - but it
doesn't get you anywhere if you can't separate there.
Then - all these considerations - where gold is very fine, this tends to
send you to cyanide heap leeching. Okay now you need some water and you
have to contain cyanide. Then even if you keep the same fluid
circulating you need a cyanide destructor, which I understand uses a lot
of hydrogen peroxide. So again, lot of transport on that alone.
I can't see where all this is going, apart from - I bet there were a lot
of folk very knowledgeable and experienced processing gold, and they
couldn't come up with any better than transporting the run-of-mine ore
to a place with water, electricity, etc.
As I said, my instinct is put it through a primary and maybe secondary crusher, which is done "dry" - so no problem of water to the mine if in
a desert - to make the ore fine so it pours densely into containers, for transport.
Hope I've done more good than harm
Rich S.
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:
"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m134f1egx2.fsf@void.com...I didn't know that.
Gerry <geraldrmiller@yahoo.ca> writes:
....
On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 18:13:23 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"....
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
...
More than one turn of rope on the drum will walk sideways.
...
That's why capstans/windlasses have a concave "waisted" shape - so the
rope stays central, being unable to "climb" the taper?
How does a "traditional" lathe work - a pedal-plank, a string with
round-turn around the wooden piece beign turned, an a lath above to be a spring? The string "walks" back-and-forth "sideways"?
Thanks,
Rich S
"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1zfhh1j3v.fsf@void.com...
http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/rodmill/250318_rodmill.html
"Rod mill - March 2025"
Early stage "blagging" materials, and thoughts leading there.
Someone I know has a "stash" of good-assay tin ore.
Plus other ores might be obtained.
Regards, Rich S
--------------------------------------
When considering the size of lathe you need for long cylinders you
must allow for the smaller clearance under the carriage. Mine for
instance will turn 10" diameter work at the spindle but only 5"
diameter over the carriage.
The ends of a larger tube could possibly be squared with the carriage
beyond its end, if the tailstock spindle extends far enough to reach a
plug jammed into the tube and still allow a little carriage
travel. It's a tricky setup.
An old worn lathe may be good enough for the sort of projects you've mentioned. Your limit of accuracy is how closely you can measure more
than what the lathe gives without extra effort. If it's an unsupported oddball you really need only a faceplate and a 4 jaw chuck. The
Difference Engine shows what a fairly primitive lathe is capable of.
"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1ecyqje7q.fsf@void.com...
I am not sure a lathe is necessary at all if welded together
(end-plates, etc.).
Well, making rollers for the "barrel" to roll on would benefit from a
lathe.
The idea of a rope drive, from which the name "lathe" comes from - a
lath, rope and plank for the foot-pedal - is hopefully also very
achievable.
---------------------------
Before I bought a house with shop space I used my father's wood lathe
to make machine parts such as pulleys and rollers. Rings sawed from
scrap water pipe reinforced the hubs. Unfortunately the dimensions of
water pipe don't match available bearing sizes. Fitting them to a
removable press fit is necessarily a metal lathe task. Wood was
adequate for hand crank, wind and water power but doesn't last long on motorized equipment.
I found that multiple turns of cotton string made a pretty reliable
outdoor rope drive. I boiled the wooden pulleys in molten canning wax
to weatherproof them. The wax shrinks as it solidifies and pulls in
from the surface, which then isn't slippery. The knot tends to ride
smoothly on the outside of the strings. A taut-line hitch adjusts the
tension without needing an idler or other means. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taut-line_hitch
When I built custom industrial equipment I bought components that fit together and never needed lathe work. The parts were expensive but the competing bidders had to pay the same prices so it didn't matter. Now
I pay much less for remnants and second hand and usually have to
modify the sizes to fit. Today I turned a replacement plus a spare for
a stainless steel cap screw with an oversized shank that's missing
from my car's roof rack.
jsw
On 27/03/2025 07:52, Richard Smith wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:
"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m134f1egx2.fsf@void.com...I didn't know that.
Gerry <geraldrmiller@yahoo.ca> writes:
....
On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 18:13:23 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"....
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
...
More than one turn of rope on the drum will walk sideways.
...
...
On a traditional pole lathe of that sort the string does walk back and
forth but as it only does a few turns before reversing it effectively
stays in one place and in use the bodger may reposition it to get
access to different parts of the piece being turned.
"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m14izoitwl.fsf@void.com...
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:
"Richard Smith" wrote in messageMust search more of "911metallurgist" site. -------------------------------------
I don't remember if this ever came up, so here it is (again?). https://www.911metallurgist.com/blog/blowpipe-analysis-for-testing-minerals/
...
"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1msd69agn.fsf@void.com...
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:
More than one turn of rope on the drum will walk sideways.
...
I didn't know that.
That's why capstans/windlasses have a concave "waisted" shape - so the
rope stays central, being unable to "climb" the taper? ...
Rich S
...
"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m134f1egx2.fsf@void.com...
Gerry <geraldrmiller@yahoo.ca> writes:
....
On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 18:13:23 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"....
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
At 0655 I'm here at my table thinking of ways to have the drum spin /
turn.
Reckon it's going to be about 60RPM.
It's likely going to have to be very improvised.
Thanks for the encouraging comment to say there must be a way.
Regards,
Rich S
---------------------------------------
Perhaps you could suspend the drum from two (used?) automotive
serpentine belts driven by the upper shaft. The motor drive on my
lathe has a vee pulley and belt on the motor driving a large flat
pulley, the friction of the softer inner rubber is enough without side
walls. A vee belt normally grips because when bent the inner rubber is
forced to expands against the pulley walls by the inelastic fibers in
the outer part.
Serpentine belts also have softer rubber on the inside. Rubber alone
without fiber reinforcement gives jerky start-stop motion.
The weight of the drum might give enough friction on the upper shaft
to drive the belt. If not the shaft could be roughened or the belt
pressed tighter with an idler or a heavy rod on top. I turned pulley
grooves to match a serpentine belt with a 40 degree angled cutting
bit.
More than one turn of rope on the drum will walk sideways. Multiple
turns of string is simpler than a long splice though maybe not
better. It does wrap around a small drive shaft more closely. It can
be made stickier with rubber cement. Friction tape on the small shaft
might last long enough for experiments
I think I'd grind the torch-cut rod ends smoother and bolt the strakes
on at their ends to make them easy to swap. Using angle iron would
reduce the strain on the screws by widening their base and eliminate
tapping the strakes. Screws alone protruding in a little more than the
rod radius might lift the rods while leaving the rocks at the bottom.