• Re: The Solution To Getting Everybody to Go EV

    From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sat Mar 8 12:16:41 2025
    On 3/8/2025 6:16 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:vqg3on$3pkap$1@dont-email.me...

    On 3/7/2025 5:19 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    As I understand it, a cheap new car can't compete on price with a
    nicer model used car.

    That MAY be true, but it there is no chance in hell of an expensive new
    car competing with a used car.  My first new truck was a GMC Sonoma, and
    my second was an Chevy S-10.
    ------------------------------------------> That depends. I bought and fixed up old cars until I could afford new,

    Me too.
    67 Ford Cortina GT (4 banger CI unknown)
    Had a packrat nest between the fender and the battery when I got it.
    The money in the packrat nest paid for a new battery and some other
    stuff. There was nothing in particular great about the Cortina despite
    being a GT. I had been rolled three times before I got it. With 60s on
    the front and 50s on the rear it was more stable, so instead I caught it
    on fire... TWICE... I mean smoke and flames on fire. I also torched
    out the wheel wells so the tires would clear. With two bags of cement
    in the trunk its was pretty good in the sand, and its 0-60 was quick if
    you knew how to speed shift and didn't mind pushing redline, but it took forever to get to 80 which was its absolute top speed with a tail wind.
    There used to be a guy in Phoenix buying them up for some special racing
    class he was in, but I never connected up with hm. Eventually the junk
    man got it.


    71 Chevy Caprice (400) (fast)
    Kid overheated it and cracked both heads. I gave him a hundred bucks
    for it and put mismatched used 350 heads on it. I also had to rebuild
    the transmission later on, but that didn't last. I left it on a fair
    grounds in Redlands California.

    69 T-Bird 2dr (429) (fast and quick and faster)
    It was fine until I popped a freeze plug and had to drive 20 miles at a
    time topping it off with whatever water I could get. At one time I
    stopped on the freeway grabbed some trash 2 liter bottles laying along
    the road, climbed over the barb wire fence, and fought my way through
    the brush, so I could top the radiator up with river water There is a
    long story there, but I wound up abandoning it in a mall parking lot and catching a bus. Hard corps car guys cry when I tell them that. That
    was definitely a desirable car. Particularly with the factory 429
    Interceptor in it.

    71 Dodge Dart (225) (bullet proof) I mean it was tough. After I bought
    my first truck I tried to kill this car. I had it airborne a couple
    times. Ran it straight line across the desert without a road. Drove it
    like I was a Duke boy. Bought it cheap with a "bad" transmission, new
    filter and fresh fluid and it was fine. The guy I sold it to sold it to
    a farm laborer who was still driving it around years later. Might still
    be driving it.

    76 Plymouth Volare Wagon (318)
    This was my first trap line vehicle. I got it stuck a lot until I
    really learned to drive it. I recall running my traps one day down in
    the river valley after a rain to stay legal (must check traps every day)
    and it was nothing but water and mud. I kinda sorta knew where the
    trail was, but staying on it was a trick. I could atleast see the
    breaks in the brush lines where the trail was. More than once that day
    I was flying across a mud flat hammer down aiming at the next bush to be
    able to make a course correction. I jacked up the torsion springs on
    the front as far as they would go and put tall shackles on the back for
    ground clearance and I still tore out the oil pan going into the Gila
    from Sentinel looking for the old Mormon dam. JB weld is some amazing
    stuff. It may not seal on an oily surface, but it makes a fair plug to
    slow the leak. I don't recall having much trouble with this car. I had
    an ignition issue once that was fixed with a new resistor wire.

    71 Plymouth Swinger 318 (Dart with different badging)
    No engine. I figured if the Dart was so good with a 225 this thing
    would be a hoot with a 318. I pulled the engine from the station wagon
    to go in this, and was about to put it in when somebody offered me more
    for the engine than I paid for both cars. When the junk man bought them
    it was just bonus money.

    76 Ford F150 (360)
    Complete overhaul and 30 over with RV CAM. Loved it until somebody
    sideswiped me and cracked the frame... right where the steering gear box
    bolted on. Power steering went, and I threw an older manual gear box on
    it. It was fine except it was hard to keep tight over the truss plate
    holding the frame together. Oh, yeah I straightened the frame before
    welding by hooking a chain to the frame and the dock bumper on a flat
    bed truck my dad had and backing up hard. It worked. I towed mobile
    homes with this thing. I left it at my dad's place, and somebody
    offered to buy the engine, and somebody offered to buy the cab and
    somebody else came along and offered to be the bed. By the time the
    message got to me all three people had cash waiting to hear from me. I
    told them to work out the break down between and give me the money. If
    I had to tear it down the price was double. My dad brought me a wad of
    cash, and it was gone.

    80-Something Toyota Celica ST (very agile)
    Only thing I ever did to it was put a new clutch, pressure plate, and
    throw out bearing in it. I did it after sunset by flashlight laying in
    the dirt with the wind blowing pretty hard on a cold (for here) winter
    day so I could use it the next day. Used one of my motorcycles to run
    parts. Don't recall why I didn't use the truck. Maybe because I had
    about enough money for parts and that F150 sucked gas like crazy.

    76 Chevy 2500 (350)
    This was my first business work truck. Before that I hired a buddy
    because he had a truck, and I just paid for gas and maintenance. I
    think the only problem I had with this was the linkage from the key
    broke inside the column. An employee was driving it and they were 120
    miles away when they called me late at night. I got up in the middle of
    the night and rode my motorcycle out where I got it going again about
    sunrise by busting open the steering column and clamping a bent steel
    rod to the linkage. That's the way it got driven until I sold it.

    Some Dodge I forget Pickup. It started clacking the day after I
    bought it, so I threw a for sale sign on it, and the guys who bought it
    drive it away clacking loudly.

    81 (I think) S-10 flatbed. Yeah no kidding. The city was selling off a
    bunch of trucks at an auction. All had 65-70K miles. I had jobs to
    finish so I sent my wife and told her to buy me a truck. I was thinking
    a nice little pickup for a few thousand dollars. She picked that one
    because it had tool boxes and a ladder rack bolted to the flat bed. I
    wasn't happy, but it turned out to be a great truck until it blew a hose
    with an employee driving. He had a service radio. He could have called
    me right away. He did call me from a truck stop. He said it got hot,
    and he stopped a soon as he could. We have a beautiful freeway with a
    wide emergency strip and a gravel strip beyond. His idea of as soon as
    he could was the next exit... five miles down the freeway. It started
    to smoke within a month after that. Eventually it smoked so bad I quit
    using it. Some guys came by my office one day and said they noticed it
    didn't get used much and asked if I would sell it. I said it got
    overheated and smoked real bad, so make me an offer. They offered more
    than I thought it was worth, and I told them to get their tow vehicle.
    Mileage is not bad as long as you understand that's miles per gallon of
    engine oil, not gas. One of them walked across the corner to the gas
    station and came back with a couple gallons of 40wt and they drove it
    away.

    78 Ford F250 (460)
    Jumped time and bent everything. Reman engine and transmission. Holley
    750, adapter plate, headers, RV cam. When I decided to fix the dash
    lights the gauge cluster just disintegrated in my hands raining gauges
    and components out on the floor like a hail storm. I still have flash
    backs of holding what looked like the desicated carcass of an animal in
    my hands as the the gauges bounced around on the floor.

    65 Ford F250 (352 industrial) with steel transmission all the racers
    wanted.
    I think the only thing I did to this was rebuild the transmission. I
    took it to somebody (just the transmission) and they tried to buy it
    from me three times. Even offered to give me a brand new C6 to replace
    it plus cash. I parked it with a burst hose, because i had my first new
    truck by then. Somebody came buy and offered me a bunch of cash for it.
    Didn't even have a for sale sign on it.

    AMC Amabassador - Drove it a lot when I cracked my right wrist.
    Tended to run hot on long trips, but otherwise it was fine. If I had
    kept it I have a pressure flushing rig that works on engines and
    radiators if they aren't totally plugged. I only paid a couple hundred
    dollars for it. When I quit using it I had it parked on the street, and
    the city kept giving me a hard time about it. Paint marking my tires,
    notice on the windshield, & sometimes they would call, etc. I didn't
    even start it. I just pushed it back and forth a couple feet every few
    days to get them to leave me alone. I tried to donate it to one of
    those charities, and they kinda sneered at me, so the next time the city
    called me I let them take it. Two weeks later that same charity called
    me back wanting it. I said, "You know when I called you you sneered at
    me because it wasn't a gold plated Cadillac. I gave it away. don't
    called me again." To be fair it might have been a desirable collector
    car because it was a clean, straight, all trim in tact including OEM hub
    cabs, everything worked, luxury car. I was just to busy contracting to
    deal with it and the Internet wasn't as good as it is today for getting
    people and cars they want together.

    There were a more. Some I turned over quick. Those are the ones that
    come to mind.

    I don't actually like working on cars. I did it because if I didn't I'd
    walk. Like a lot of things I do it because it needs to be done.


    then I bought the Helms factory shop manuals and kept them in good

    I always liked the old Motor's manuals, but they quit publishing them
    back in the late 70s or early 80s. My dad had several and if I can find
    them they will get added to y shop library. The Chilton manuals were
    all I knew about when I started working on cars, and they just weren't
    as good or as a well organized. Later the Hanes manuals aren't bad, but
    for a lot of things I try to get the factory service manual even if they
    cost more. Most expensive factory service manual I have is for my 3320
    John Deere diesel. I'm not sure I know what a Helm or Helms manual is.

    When I say factory I mean factory. Not third party factory. I was
    turned on to the fact that they exist for many things when I got into
    Harleys. I had the factory service manual and parts manual for all the
    Harleys I owned.

    condition as long as rust let me. Thanks to MIG I still drive the 1991
    Ranger and 2000 CRV. Styling overcame substance on the newer CRVs so I'm waiting for the 2026 Passport which reverts to the old Land-Rover-
    inspired practicality with squared space replacing swoop, a full sized
    spare tire and built-in folding picnic table like my mine.

    We have a lot of rust free chassis and bodies around here. Back about
    69-70 my uncle tried to make a business of joining northern engines with southwestern bodies, but he didn't have the capitol for it. Its still a
    real thing, but to many people "Know what they got" now-a-days.


    The table is a useful workbench for construction projects at the club's shooting ranges, it keeps us old guys from having to pick tools up off
    the ground. I bought a spare as a "cargo space floor" from LKQ for $12.


    Tables are just a space suck in my shop. They all have Horizontal
    Surface Disease. HSD. If I need to use the big welding table the first
    thing I need to do is schedule myself an afternoon to clean it off.


    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sat Mar 8 14:36:00 2025
    On 3/8/2025 1:59 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

    My active workbench is plywood on the washing machine, which I have to
    clear off once a week for laundry. Right now it's covered with old electrolytic caps and the power supplies to reform them.


    Reminded me of my single days. I used to keep a little over two weeks
    worth of every day working and going to school clothes in my closet.
    Once every two weeks I'd go to the 24hr laundromat and use the machines
    around midnight. I used to go earlier, but single moms would hit on me.
    One had her kid climb up in my truck to keep me from leaving. I had
    to threaten to call the cops to get her to back off.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff

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  • From Gerry@21:1/5 to muratlanne@gmail.com on Sat Mar 8 23:24:29 2025
    On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 19:19:10 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
    <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:vqg040$3phoo$1@dont-email.me...

    If it wasn't for all the big brother MANDATES the USA could build cheap
    cars too. Remote kill switch, black box recording, etc is not trivial.
    That doesn't even count the safety standards.

    --------------------------

    As I understand it, a cheap new car can't compete on price with a nicer
    model used car.
    Twenty years ago I leased a Toyota Echo "econo box" that reminded me
    of the Model "A" I got my license on in 1956. For the last three years
    I 've needed a degree in Gismology to drive the 2021 Corolla. God
    knows whats gonna happen Monday when I pick up the 2025 Corolla Cross.
    We moved up because we needed a step ladder to get out of the current
    car - told the dealer we wanted to go back to the Echo "Geezermobile".
    We're both over 80!

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Gerry on Sun Mar 9 11:13:50 2025
    On 3/8/2025 9:24 PM, Gerry wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 19:19:10 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
    <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:vqg040$3phoo$1@dont-email.me...

    If it wasn't for all the big brother MANDATES the USA could build cheap
    cars too. Remote kill switch, black box recording, etc is not trivial.
    That doesn't even count the safety standards.

    --------------------------

    As I understand it, a cheap new car can't compete on price with a nicer
    model used car.
    Twenty years ago I leased a Toyota Echo "econo box" that reminded me
    of the Model "A" I got my license on in 1956. For the last three years
    I 've needed a degree in Gismology to drive the 2021 Corolla. God
    knows whats gonna happen Monday when I pick up the 2025 Corolla Cross.
    We moved up because we needed a step ladder to get out of the current
    car - told the dealer we wanted to go back to the Echo "Geezermobile".
    We're both over 80!

    I was a bit advanced tech averse myself, but automakers have finally
    recognized I won't pay a subscription to their service when I have a
    cell phone. I'm not crazy about Goggle having total access to my
    location, but Android Auto looks exactly the same on all three vehicles
    I currently drive regularly. I have navigation on the right and music streaming on the left. Ford, Nissan, & Hyundai. I turn location off on
    my phone when I know where I am going and how to get there. It
    complains, but I can flip music to full screen and not see it complain.

    Lane assist... meh. Backup cameras I hated for a long time. I learned
    to use my side mirrors backing a trailer, and backing down a boat ramp
    at night was annoying as heck when the camera screen popped on and
    ruined my night vision, but for every things else... I am getting used
    to it.

    One thing about all that tech... there no longer seems to be any kind of
    base model. This drives up the cost.

    I admit it is nice to tap the microphone icon and say, "Text Casey," or
    "Call Patti." I also recognize Google/Alphabet has more information
    about me than I like.


    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 6 15:54:43 2025
    Retrofits are only/mostly going to people who can afford to throw money
    at cars. That's not the answer currently.

    Most factory EVs are expensive purchased by mid to high end wage
    professionals. Nope. Still not the answer.

    The way to get everybody, but motor heads and enthusiasts is to sell
    beginner car at a beginner price. Most young people starting out in the
    world buy a cheap used car, or the bottom of the price line gasser.
    Offer them an inexpensive okay looking practical electron juggler.
    Maybe there will be one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/why-vw-and-rivian-are-teaming-up-to-launch-a-21-500-ev/ar-AA1AnkOm?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=bcaf4cca07f840d080962f5789dbe096&ei=11

    Leave it to VW. If every new driver can afford an EV the rest of us
    will die off in a generation or two, and gassers will be the
    anachronism. Of course I'll wait and see they are talking maybe, in two
    years, only in Europe, if Europe approves, etc, etc, etc. With
    inflation, devaluation of wages, and general uncertainty I'd bet real
    money if it comes to market it will cost a lot more than they predict.




    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


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  • From bp@www.zefox.net@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Fri Mar 7 02:02:59 2025
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

    Leave it to VW. If every new driver can afford an EV the rest of us
    will die off in a generation or two, and gassers will be the
    anachronism. Of course I'll wait and see they are talking maybe, in two years, only in Europe, if Europe approves, etc, etc, etc. With
    inflation, devaluation of wages, and general uncertainty I'd bet real
    money if it comes to market it will cost a lot more than they predict.

    The Nissan Leaf comes close to meeting that criteria. $28k. It's been in production since 2010. Not a howling success, but neither has it flopped.

    I've thought about buying a used one, just to see what they're like.

    bob prohaska

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Fri Mar 7 11:53:53 2025
    On 3/7/2025 5:13 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Jim Wilkins"  wrote in message news:vqdtqf$3cnfa$1@dont-email.me...

    This laptop is on grid power because several days of overcast have
    depleted my batteries. What's left is for the freezer overnight. I can
    let the LiFePO4s stay low but the AGMs may sulfate if not recharged soon.

    Running on alternate energy makes me the power plant engineer, which certainly isn't for everyone. As a kid we had hand-fired coal heat so
    I'm used to paying attention to the demands of non-automatic energy. I
    bought an electrically heated house and installed a wood stove that I
    could feed for free, the cost being my effort to harvest dead trees from across the street. Keeping up was difficult when I was working and
    attending night school.

    Luckily today has begun sunny. A clear day easily recharges the
    batteries, hazy or partly cloudy makes that questionable and overcast
    cuts the output to 10%.

    https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/3802915-new- england-grapples-with-sky-high-electricity-rates-as-ukraine-war- squeezes-gas-supply/

    This winter the rate is still over $0.20 per KWH.



    My whole thing is there is to be a CHEAP EV for there to be real
    traction. I don't mean a golf cart or a scooter either. The biggest
    problem is with all the modern mandatory standards I think its nearly impossible to produce ANY cheap car that isn't a toy.


    I don't think the VW ID.1 is cheap enough. There has to be a car the
    somebody can afford when they get their first pay or second bump above
    starting wage.

    AS Jim alluded to. The problem is mostly economic. I don't think
    "range anxiety" is the problem for a first car buyer. 155 mile range
    (ID.1 basic battery) will get must of them to work or to school every day.

    Infrastructure might be an issue for some, but many can charge at home.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff

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  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Fri Mar 7 15:47:12 2025
    On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:53:53 -0700
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

    <snip>
    The biggest
    problem is with all the modern mandatory standards I think its nearly >impossible to produce ANY cheap car that isn't a toy.

    This retrofit is WAY OVER THE TOP... but it's nice to see standard
    controls, knobs, levers... instead of a TV touch screen to control
    stuff. They stuck a panel in the dash but kept the standard
    speedometer beside it🤷️

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2025/03/driving-an-ev-restomod-that-costs-as-much-as-a-house-the-jia-chieftain/

    It would be interesting to see the parts list used for it but I doubt
    it's available...

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Leon Fisk on Fri Mar 7 14:09:44 2025
    On 3/7/2025 12:47 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 11:53:53 -0700
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

    <snip>
    The biggest
    problem is with all the modern mandatory standards I think its nearly
    impossible to produce ANY cheap car that isn't a toy.

    This retrofit is WAY OVER THE TOP... but it's nice to see standard
    controls, knobs, levers... instead of a TV touch screen to control
    stuff. They stuck a panel in the dash but kept the standard
    speedometer beside it🤷️

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2025/03/driving-an-ev-restomod-that-costs-as-much-as-a-house-the-jia-chieftain/

    It would be interesting to see the parts list used for it but I doubt
    it's available...


    Well, like I mentioned in the "practical" EV conversion thread I was
    told a complete kit including everything including a VCU for a full size
    truck was $58,000 from one source.

    I'm not sure what exactly a VCU (vehicle control unit) does, but it
    sounds like it might substitute for controlling the vehicle sans motor, inverter, etc core of the conversion. I would think it would interface
    in place of the oem computers and processors. Its the only thing that
    makes sense.

    That being said a conversion that uses the stock gear box, and has a
    cable from the transmission could easily use the stock speedometer.
    Those that use a simple hall sensor, might still be usable with some
    minor electrical hackery. If it is driven by the vehicle computer like
    the modern HUD in my F250 then probably not.




    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Fri Mar 7 14:45:04 2025
    On 3/7/2025 2:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 3/7/2025 11:53 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 3/7/2025 5:13 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Jim Wilkins"  wrote in message news:vqdtqf$3cnfa$1@dont-email.me...

    This laptop is on grid power because several days of overcast have
    depleted my batteries. What's left is for the freezer overnight. I
    can let the LiFePO4s stay low but the AGMs may sulfate if not
    recharged soon.

    Running on alternate energy makes me the power plant engineer, which
    certainly isn't for everyone. As a kid we had hand-fired coal heat so
    I'm used to paying attention to the demands of non-automatic energy.
    I bought an electrically heated house and installed a wood stove that
    I could feed for free, the cost being my effort to harvest dead trees
    from across the street. Keeping up was difficult when I was working
    and attending night school.

    Luckily today has begun sunny. A clear day easily recharges the
    batteries, hazy or partly cloudy makes that questionable and overcast
    cuts the output to 10%.

    https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/3802915-new-
    england-grapples-with-sky-high-electricity-rates-as-ukraine-war-
    squeezes-gas-supply/

    This winter the rate is still over $0.20 per KWH.



    My whole thing is there is to be a CHEAP EV for there to be real
    traction.  I don't mean a golf cart or a scooter either.  The biggest
    problem is with all the modern mandatory standards I think its nearly
    impossible to produce ANY cheap car that isn't a toy.


    I don't think the VW ID.1 is cheap enough.  There has to be a car the
    somebody can afford when they get their first pay or second bump above
    starting wage.

    AS Jim alluded to.  The problem is mostly economic.  I don't think
    "range anxiety" is the problem for a first car buyer.  155 mile range
    (ID.1 basic battery) will get must of them to work or to school every
    day.

    Infrastructure might be an issue for some, but many can charge at home.


    "A far larger proportion of Chinese EV buyers are first-time car buyers."

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/it-s-ok-for-evs-to-be-worse-than- gas-cars/ar-AA1AtFMa? ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=25fd585acd6149fdb2755d06ab12b6a5&ei=26


    10,000 units sold in one hour in China for $15,000 USD. No mention of
    offering in any other markets.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-suvs/toyota-s-cheapest-ev-ever-costs-15-000-gets-10-000-orders-in-60-minutes/ar-AA1App8T?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=78e55a6b4b434fa5b88a271e376669e1&ei=12



    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Fri Mar 7 14:38:26 2025
    On 3/7/2025 11:53 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 3/7/2025 5:13 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Jim Wilkins"  wrote in message news:vqdtqf$3cnfa$1@dont-email.me...

    This laptop is on grid power because several days of overcast have
    depleted my batteries. What's left is for the freezer overnight. I
    can let the LiFePO4s stay low but the AGMs may sulfate if not
    recharged soon.

    Running on alternate energy makes me the power plant engineer, which
    certainly isn't for everyone. As a kid we had hand-fired coal heat so
    I'm used to paying attention to the demands of non-automatic energy. I
    bought an electrically heated house and installed a wood stove that I
    could feed for free, the cost being my effort to harvest dead trees
    from across the street. Keeping up was difficult when I was working
    and attending night school.

    Luckily today has begun sunny. A clear day easily recharges the
    batteries, hazy or partly cloudy makes that questionable and overcast
    cuts the output to 10%.

    https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/3802915-new-
    england-grapples-with-sky-high-electricity-rates-as-ukraine-war-
    squeezes-gas-supply/

    This winter the rate is still over $0.20 per KWH.



    My whole thing is there is to be a CHEAP EV for there to be real
    traction.  I don't mean a golf cart or a scooter either.  The biggest problem is with all the modern mandatory standards I think its nearly impossible to produce ANY cheap car that isn't a toy.


    I don't think the VW ID.1 is cheap enough.  There has to be a car the somebody can afford when they get their first pay or second bump above starting wage.

    AS Jim alluded to.  The problem is mostly economic.  I don't think
    "range anxiety" is the problem for a first car buyer.  155 mile range
    (ID.1 basic battery) will get must of them to work or to school every day.

    Infrastructure might be an issue for some, but many can charge at home.


    "A far larger proportion of Chinese EV buyers are first-time car buyers."

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/it-s-ok-for-evs-to-be-worse-than-gas-cars/ar-AA1AtFMa?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=25fd585acd6149fdb2755d06ab12b6a5&ei=26




    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Fri Mar 7 16:39:44 2025
    On 3/7/2025 4:00 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:vqffc0$3m5oo$1@dont-email.me...

    I don't think the VW ID.1 is cheap enough.  There has to be a car the somebody can afford when they get their first pay or second bump above starting wage.
    ...
    Infrastructure might be an issue for some, but many can charge at home.

    --------------------------------
    There seems to be a contradiction here...

    How long do you think Chinese loss-leader EVs will remain cheap once
    they've crushed the competition, assuming they do better at supplying
    repair parts than they have with everything else?

    If it wasn't for all the big brother MANDATES the USA could build cheap
    cars too. Remote kill switch, black box recording, etc is not trivial.
    That doesn't even count the safety standards.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Fri Mar 7 17:41:59 2025
    On 3/7/2025 5:19 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:vqg040$3phoo$1@dont-email.me...

    If it wasn't for all the big brother MANDATES the USA could build cheap
    cars too.  Remote kill switch, black box recording, etc is not trivial.
    That doesn't even count the safety standards.

    --------------------------

    As I understand it, a cheap new car can't compete on price with a nicer
    model used car.


    That MAY be true, but it there is no chance in hell of an expensive new
    car competing with a used car. My first new truck was a GMC Sonoma, and
    my second was an Chevy S-10.

    I've been in the new and used car market for the last year. Dealing
    with my own stuff, and getting rid of my dad's stuff. I bought a new
    truck, and was seriously considering buying another one this year. I've
    even found myself counting days and vehicles to make sure I don't have
    to get a broker's license. LOL. Fortunately dealer transactions don't
    count so I am still good.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff

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