Back Story: About 3-1/2 to 4 years ago my dad had a brain tumor
removed, and it came to my attention that he was not managing their
affairs very well. He and my mom were receiving social security, and he
was doing various handyman type work. He had some other assets, but he
was hoarding them instead of using them. I stepped in and took over for
a little while, but out of respect I kept him in the loop. When he
would tell me something, I'd put in my time and work to make it happen
and find out how it would work out and he would try to horse trade with
me I quit.

Example: He said he would like to sell a fifth wheel trailer he owned.
I looked it, up checked the market, found how much others selling the
exact same trailer were asking, and how long theirs had been on the
market I knew for a fact what they wouldn't sell for, and what I would
have to settle for in order to sell it. He tried to negotiate with me.
He literally burned my time without regard. I'd have been ahead if I
had just made stuff in the shop and given him money. That was the
proverbial straw. I'm not faulting him. He literally had a hole in his
head. Not his fault. He just wouldn't let me do what I needed to do
without throwing my time in the fire.

One thing I did do was line up a renter for a commercial property he
owned. I was working out the deal at the same time as my peeve, and
then turned the renter over to him because I wasn't going to have my
time wasted again.

My dad passed away a year ago, and I wound up taking over everything
again. I'm actually a bit overwhelmed, but that's beside the point. At
least because of the time my dad was recovering from his brain surgery I
had all his account names, passwords, and I have his cell phone. I was
able to just step in and make short term decisions quickly.

Among other things I took over working with the renter until they moved
out at the end of last year. They were from out of the region, using
the property as their local base of operations for a solar generating
station they were working on. While they were here (for three years)
they accumulated some stuff. Trying to get out before the end of the
year they had a truck sitting in the yard with a blown engine they
wanted to just get rid of. I told them if they couldn't rid of it they
could leave it behind, but they would have to provide the title or I
would charge them what it cost me to have it hauled away. I figured
worst case scenario with the title I could load the truck on one of my
trailers and get a few hundred bucks from a salvage yard with the title.
Enough to make up for my time to do it. A few weeks later the title
arrived in the mail.

I got to looking at the truck and its better, and worse than I thought.
The motor is not rebuildable. They already had it out of the truck
laying on the ground half apart. All of the front trim, radiator, grill
parts are all out laying in the bed of the truck. Probably made it
easier to pull the motor. They had told me "The motor is completely
blown up, but the transmission is good." I got to looking at it and the
body is straight. All the trim is there. The interior is full of
desert dust as any vehicle that sets around here gets, but its intact
and in good shape. If it had a good motor (less than 3 grand for a reman
(4.7L) long block, and a couple grand in additional parts to do it
right), it could be made into a decent truck again. The only real
cosmetic negative is for some reason beyond my understanding one end of
the front bumper is bent up and out. Not impact or wreck damage. Maybe getting pulled out the sand or something by somebody who doesn't know ho
to do a pull. The sheet metal behind it is all perfect for its age.
2013 Dodge Ram 1500 Extended Cab. Its a Dodge. I am sure there is
stuff that doesn't work, but cosmetically it could be a nice truck.

The thing is I don't need a truck for serious truck things right now. I
bought the new F250 FX4 back around the end of August last year for
truck things. With its 6.8L engine it develops more horsepower and
torque than the 6.6L turbo diesel in the 07 Silverado I sold last year.
There is one thing though. The F250 only averages about 11.8 mpg.

Finally getting to the point:

I got it in my mind to do AN EV conversion on that Dodge. Not for heavy hauling or road trips, but for going to the hardware store. A few
sheets of plywood. A couple bags of ready mix. That sort of thing.

I kinda had a plan. I was going to use LiFePo batteries instead of
lithium Ion because they are safer. Since its short range it wouldn't
matter. 100 miles range would be fantastic. 50 miles range would be
more than adequate. This lets out the obviously killer deal in EV
motors. Ford released the Mach-E crate motor dirt cheap. I mean cheap.
I think the original OEM price was around $3-4K, but you can buy them
from a number of reputable sources including the big name racing stores
for $1.5K or less. Power and torque are very good. It also requires a
400V battery. That lets out cheap battery options. It doesn't come
with a controller, inverter, charger, etc. I could make any gear train
parts, but the rest adds up, and the companies that have proven gear to
work with it aren't even selling any of it to the unannointed.
Basically if you buy that motor hoping to do an EV conversion you will
be bread boarding everything from scratch or you will have to turn your
vehicle and motor over to one of the CABAL and pay them to do
everything. Pricing is very closed mouth, but those who have dared to
defy the priesthood have said the minimum cost is around 20 grand and it
goes up very quickly from there. Basically it makes it all pointless.
Might as well drop a remanufactured 4.7L gasser in it be out 6 grand
including all new front/top of the engine stuff.

The thing is I don't necessarily need the 285 true horsepower of the
Ford Mach-E. A Hyper-9 is only 144 volts nominal 90ish horsepower. It
would work just fine for a local only surface street pickup truck with a
gear box instead of a transmission, and its only about 5 times the price
of the Ford Mach-E crate motor. Still needs controller/inverter/charger/batteries, etc.

I really want to do something with this truck. Its to nice to throw
away, but in the end I may just haul it to a salvage yard.





--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff


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On 2/26/2025 4:38 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

Back Story:  About 3-1/2 to 4 years ago my dad had a brain tumor
removed, and it came to my attention that he was not managing their
affairs very well.  He and my mom were receiving social security, and he
was doing various handyman type work.  He had some other assets, but he
was hoarding them instead of using them.  I stepped in and took over for
a little while, but out of respect I kept him in the loop.  When he
would tell me something, I'd put in my time and work to make it happen
and find out how it would work out and he would try to horse trade with
me I quit.

Example:  He said he would like to sell a fifth wheel trailer he owned.
I looked it, up checked the market, found how much others selling the
exact same trailer were asking, and how long theirs had been on the
market I knew for a fact what they wouldn't sell for, and what I would
have to settle for in order to sell it.  He tried to negotiate with me.
He literally burned my time without regard.  I'd have been ahead if I
had just made stuff in the shop and given him money.  That was the proverbial straw.  I'm not faulting him.  He literally had a hole in his head.  Not his fault.  He just wouldn't let me do what I needed to do without throwing my time in the fire.

One thing I did do was line up a renter for a commercial property he
owned.  I was working out the deal at the same time as my peeve, and
then turned the renter over to him because I wasn't going to have my
time wasted again.

My dad passed away a year ago, and I wound up taking over everything
again.  I'm actually a bit overwhelmed, but that's beside the point.  At least because of the time my dad was recovering from his brain surgery I
had all his account names, passwords, and I have his cell phone.  I was
able to just step in and make short term decisions quickly.

Among other things I took over working with the renter until they moved
out at the end of last year.  They were from out of the region, using
the property as their local base of operations for a solar generating
station they were working on.  While they were here (for three years)
they accumulated some stuff.  Trying to get out before the end of the
year they had a truck sitting in the yard with a blown engine they
wanted to just get rid of.  I told them if they couldn't rid of it they could leave it behind, but they would have to provide the title or I
would charge them what it cost me to have it hauled away.  I figured
worst case scenario with the title I could load the truck on one of my trailers and get a few hundred bucks from a salvage yard with the title.
 Enough to make up for my time to do it.  A few weeks later the title arrived in the mail.

I got to looking at the truck and its better, and worse than I thought.
The motor is not rebuildable.  They already had it out of the truck
laying on the ground half apart.  All of the front trim, radiator, grill parts are all out laying in the bed of the truck.  Probably made it
easier to pull the motor.  They had told me "The motor is completely
blown up, but the transmission is good."  I got to looking at it and the body is straight.  All the trim is there.  The interior is full of
desert dust as any vehicle that sets around here gets, but its intact
and in good shape. If it had a good motor (less than 3 grand for a reman (4.7L) long block, and a couple grand in additional parts to do it
right), it could be made into a decent truck again.  The only real
cosmetic negative is for some reason beyond my understanding one end of
the front bumper is bent up and out.  Not impact or wreck damage.  Maybe getting pulled out the sand or something by somebody who doesn't know ho
to do a pull.  The sheet metal behind it is all perfect for its age.
2013 Dodge Ram 1500 Extended Cab.  Its a Dodge.  I am sure there is
stuff that doesn't work, but cosmetically it could be a nice truck.

The thing is I don't need a truck for serious truck things right now.  I bought the new F250 FX4 back around the end of August last year for
truck things.  With its 6.8L engine it develops more horsepower and
torque than the 6.6L turbo diesel in the 07 Silverado I sold last year.
There is one thing though.  The F250 only averages about 11.8 mpg.

Finally getting to the point:

I got it in my mind to do AN EV conversion on that Dodge.  Not for heavy hauling or road trips, but for going to the hardware store.  A few
sheets of plywood.  A couple bags of ready mix.  That sort of thing.

I kinda had a plan.  I was going to use LiFePo batteries instead of
lithium Ion because they are safer.  Since its short range it wouldn't matter.  100 miles range would be fantastic.  50 miles range would be
more than adequate.  This lets out the obviously killer deal in EV
motors.  Ford released the Mach-E crate motor dirt cheap.  I mean cheap.
 I think the original OEM price was around $3-4K, but you can buy them
from a number of reputable sources including the big name racing stores
for $1.5K or less.  Power and torque are very good.  It also requires a 400V battery.  That lets out cheap battery options.  It doesn't come
with a controller, inverter, charger, etc.  I could make any gear train parts, but the rest adds up, and the companies that have proven gear to
work with it aren't even selling any of it to the unannointed. Basically
if you buy that motor hoping to do an EV conversion you will be bread boarding everything from scratch or you will have to turn your vehicle
and motor over to one of the CABAL and pay them to do everything.
Pricing is very closed mouth, but those who have dared to defy the
priesthood have said the minimum cost is around 20 grand and it goes up
very quickly from there.  Basically it makes it all pointless. Might as
well drop a remanufactured 4.7L gasser in it be out 6 grand including
all new front/top of the engine stuff.

The thing is I don't necessarily need the 285 true horsepower of the
Ford Mach-E.  A Hyper-9 is only 144 volts nominal 90ish horsepower.  It would work just fine for a local only surface street pickup truck with a
gear box instead of a transmission, and its only about 5 times the price
of the Ford Mach-E crate motor.  Still needs controller/inverter/ charger/batteries, etc.

I really want to do something with this truck.  Its to nice to throw
away, but in the end I may just haul it to a salvage yard.

I had a guy touch base with me with a complete package for a 1/2 ton
Dodge truck that he wasn't going to use. $58,000.00 At the risk of
offending your sensitive natures. F__K THAT. Okay, at that price it
did include a new battery.

I actually found a "package" sans battery for $6500. 96HP (72Kw), 144
volt, controller, inverter, & charger. A rough calculator estimates the 0-60mph (0-96kph) at around 18 seconds with a single 96HP motor with a
5000lb (2267kg) vehicle. Pretty darn slow.

They make an adapter for that motor to tie two of them together, so 6500
+ 6500 + 500 + battery and I'm close to the minimum of 20 grand.

I could put the truck back together with a remanufactured (not repaired)
engine that is a match to the OEM with all new parts on top and in front
of the motor for 6 grand. I just don't have the time for that.

I still think I am looking at putting it on a trailer and hauling it to
a salvage yard.

EV just doesn't make any sense financially at all. I don't have the
knowledge to boot strap a wrecked EV into it. That is the ONLY way I've
seen anybody do an EV conversion even half affordable.

To be fair that 90HP package would be fine for a small light car like a
first gen Miata or an old Chevy Luv, but for anything substantial it
would just incite road rage in other drivers.

That being said, I keep an eye out for a first gen Miata with a blown
motor and good chassis at a deal. I passed a couple years ago, but now
I wish I'd snatched them up. I like the old pop-up head lights with the
bug eye conversion. There was also an outfit in California with that
made a fastback hard top for them. Extreme aerodynamic improvement and
it already wasn't bad with the top up.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
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Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

I really want to do something with this truck.  Its to nice to throw
away, but in the end I may just haul it to a salvage yard.

I still think I am looking at putting it on a trailer and hauling it to
a salvage yard.

Why not offer it "free to good home" in hopes somebody else has the
resources to fix it and the need to use it? I don't think you stated
the location or model year, that would be relevant.

EV just doesn't make any sense financially at all. I don't have the knowledge to boot strap a wrecked EV into it. That is the ONLY way I've
seen anybody do an EV conversion even half affordable.

EVs make sense only in rather limited use cases. Sounds like yours isn't
one of them.

bob prohaska

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On 2/27/2025 10:36 AM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

I really want to do something with this truck.  Its to nice to throw
away, but in the end I may just haul it to a salvage yard.

I still think I am looking at putting it on a trailer and hauling it to
a salvage yard.

Why not offer it "free to good home" in hopes somebody else has the
resources to fix it and the need to use it? I don't think you stated
the location or model year, that would be relevant.

EV just doesn't make any sense financially at all. I don't have the
knowledge to boot strap a wrecked EV into it. That is the ONLY way I've
seen anybody do an EV conversion even half affordable.

EVs make sense only in rather limited use cases. Sounds like yours isn't
one of them.

bob prohaska

"The sheet metal behind it is all perfect for its age. 2013 Dodge Ram
1500 Extended Cab. Its a Dodge. I am sure there is stuff that doesn't
work, but cosmetically it could be a nice truck." Yuma, Az

I rarely if ever offer anything for free anymore. To many vultures out
there who profiteer off of it, rather than people with a real need who
would appreciate it. I used to, but I grew weary of chasing off carrion
eaters. If I stumble across somebody, but not to the general public
maybe.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
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Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

"The sheet metal behind it is all perfect for its age. 2013 Dodge Ram
1500 Extended Cab. Its a Dodge. I am sure there is stuff that doesn't
work, but cosmetically it could be a nice truck." Yuma, Az

Apologies for the oversight....must have skipped it.

I rarely if ever offer anything for free anymore. To many vultures out
there who profiteer off of it, rather than people with a real need who
would appreciate it.

2013 is much newer than I imagined. Is scrapping it an improvement?

I used to, but I grew weary of chasing off carrion
eaters. If I stumble across somebody, but not to the general public
maybe.

If you have the time that seems like the most productive use for it.
If it could be put back on the road for something close to the cost
of a similar used truck it sounds worthwhile. A straight, rust-free
body is irreplaceable.

Thanks for writing,

bob prohaska

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On 2/27/2025 5:10 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

"The sheet metal behind it is all perfect for its age. 2013 Dodge Ram
1500 Extended Cab. Its a Dodge. I am sure there is stuff that doesn't
work, but cosmetically it could be a nice truck." Yuma, Az

Apologies for the oversight....must have skipped it.

Its all good. If it wasn't more a rant than a creative post it would
have stood out more.

I rarely if ever offer anything for free anymore. To many vultures out
there who profiteer off of it, rather than people with a real need who
would appreciate it.

2013 is much newer than I imagined. Is scrapping it an improvement?

My initial thought was to be good to a renter who had been good to us,
and may come back to the area at some future date. Disposing of a
vehicle without any cost to myself. That it turned out to be a rather
nice truck was a bonus (and a curse). Scrapping probably pays for the
time I will have in dealing with it since they gave me the title.

Its a curse because if it wasn't decent I would have no issue with
dragging it up on a trailer and hauling it to a salvage yard. Straight
body, haven't noticed any rust, and the interior is intact. All the
bits and pieces laying in the bed to put the grill back together look
okay too. I have a hard time just "throwing it away," even if I'll get
paid for it.

I used to, but I grew weary of chasing off carrion
eaters. If I stumble across somebody, but not to the general public
maybe.

There are people who cruise the marketplace, craigslist, next door, etc
looking for opportunities to profiteer. I don't have an issue with it
on principle if they are not vultures preying on the weak or tweakers
looking for a quick buck to buy an 8-ball. There are legit salvage and
rebuild buyers as well. Unfortunately when I see far more of the former
than the later when I offer something cheap or free to help somebody out.

I'm not against a good deal, but I am against theft.

If you have the time that seems like the most productive use for it.
If it could be put back on the road for something close to the cost
of a similar used truck it sounds worthwhile. A straight, rust-free
body is irreplaceable.

Yeah, putting a new reman engine in it would the most labor, but the
least cost in materials to put it back on the road. I'm still actually
leaning towards an EV if I can find the right stuff. The Chinese are
leaps and bounds ahead of the US EV market. I can buy a new Chinese
200hp (which would be good for this application) even cheaper than the
Ford Mach-E, but I find the same problem. A lack of supply (that I can
buy) for everything to make it work.

Thanks for writing,

You are welcome. I hope you got some entertainment from the reading of
it. At least as much as the stress reduction I received from writing it.

bob prohaska

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
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Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

On 2/27/2025 5:10 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

"The sheet metal behind it is all perfect for its age. 2013 Dodge Ram
1500 Extended Cab. Its a Dodge. I am sure there is stuff that doesn't
work, but cosmetically it could be a nice truck." Yuma, Az

Apologies for the oversight....must have skipped it.

Its all good. If it wasn't more a rant than a creative post it would
have stood out more.

I rarely if ever offer anything for free anymore. To many vultures out
there who profiteer off of it, rather than people with a real need who
would appreciate it.

2013 is much newer than I imagined. Is scrapping it an improvement?

My initial thought was to be good to a renter who had been good to us,
and may come back to the area at some future date. Disposing of a
vehicle without any cost to myself. That it turned out to be a rather
nice truck was a bonus (and a curse). Scrapping probably pays for the
time I will have in dealing with it since they gave me the title.

Its a curse because if it wasn't decent I would have no issue with
dragging it up on a trailer and hauling it to a salvage yard. Straight
body, haven't noticed any rust, and the interior is intact. All the
bits and pieces laying in the bed to put the grill back together look
okay too. I have a hard time just "throwing it away," even if I'll get
paid for it.

I used to, but I grew weary of chasing off carrion
eaters. If I stumble across somebody, but not to the general public
maybe.

There are people who cruise the marketplace, craigslist, next door, etc looking for opportunities to profiteer. I don't have an issue with it
on principle if they are not vultures preying on the weak or tweakers
looking for a quick buck to buy an 8-ball. There are legit salvage and rebuild buyers as well. Unfortunately when I see far more of the former
than the later when I offer something cheap or free to help somebody out.

I'm not against a good deal, but I am against theft.

If you have the time that seems like the most productive use for it.
If it could be put back on the road for something close to the cost
of a similar used truck it sounds worthwhile. A straight, rust-free
body is irreplaceable.

Yeah, putting a new reman engine in it would the most labor, but the
least cost in materials to put it back on the road.

Any hope of finding a decent used engine?

I'm still actually
leaning towards an EV if I can find the right stuff. The Chinese are
leaps and bounds ahead of the US EV market. I can buy a new Chinese
200hp (which would be good for this application) even cheaper than the
Ford Mach-E, but I find the same problem. A lack of supply (that I can
buy) for everything to make it work.

An EV is a worthy experiment. Thought about it myself. But a handmade conversion won't be worth much, even if it works, to anybody but the
originator once the experiment is complete. The learning curve for the
new owner is going to be steep. From the numbers you mentioned
earlier that sounds like it might get pricey, ~20k or something. A
used standard production EV can be resold for most of its purchase
price unless the battery drops dead.

I very much like the idea of an EV built with commodity components
as opposed to the proprietary designs prevailing in the marketplace.
A pickup truck seems on the face of it a good platform; lots of space
and no severe performance demands. But, it's a big project in time,
knowledge and money.

One of my neighbors had a Tesla, which mysteriously dissapeared. When
I asked what happend, I was told that in hot weather the car turned
itself on when parked to run the AC to cool the batteries. That was
a wrinkle I never imagined.

Likely there are more 8-)

Thanks for writing, and good luck....

bob prohaska

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Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
[snip]

Any hope of finding a decent used engine?

Its always possible, but the OEM for this was a 4.7L V8. A
remanufactured 4.7 is 3 grand or less. The balance is that you aren't supposed to reuse the intake ($900), and you should use a new water
pump, alternator, gaskets etc. Stuff that can leave you stranded use
new. I figure with incidentals it might run another 3 grand in other
parts. 6 grand. Maybe less if I spend more time shopping. I know
plenty of people buy used engines or repaired grade engines, but I
wouldn't go with less than a reman if I went that way. Its to much work
to have to do twice in short order.

Ok, understood.

I'm still actually
leaning towards an EV if I can find the right stuff. The Chinese are
leaps and bounds ahead of the US EV market. I can buy a new Chinese
200hp (which would be good for this application) even cheaper than the
Ford Mach-E, but I find the same problem. A lack of supply (that I can
buy) for everything to make it work.

An EV is a worthy experiment. Thought about it myself. But a handmade
conversion won't be worth much, even if it works, to anybody but the
originator once the experiment is complete. The learning curve for the
new owner is going to be steep. From the numbers you mentioned
earlier that sounds like it might get pricey, ~20k or something. A
used standard production EV can be resold for most of its purchase
price unless the battery drops dead.

I very much like the idea of an EV built with commodity components
as opposed to the proprietary designs prevailing in the marketplace.
A pickup truck seems on the face of it a good platform; lots of space
and no severe performance demands. But, it's a big project in time,
knowledge and money.

I asked one of my drive suppliers if an industrial high voltage inverter could be used for an EV controller. Polyspede makes them rated upto
500HP and input voltage from 380-480. A regenerative 200HP Polyspede
sells for about 4 grand. For the bigger ones the price jumps quickly.
One rated at 400HP is almost 10 grand.

Those horsepower numbers seem exceedingly large. Is it really required?
I'm thinking in terms of 100hp peak, 20hp continuous at most. It
might require a multi-speed transmission, but that's key to efficiency
anyway. Am I overlooking something? A 12 kg LiFePO4 battery can deliver
about a kilowatt for a minute or so. Do you really want 250 of them?

bob prohaska

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On 3/1/2025 2:23 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

I asked one of my drive suppliers if an industrial high voltage inverter
could be used for an EV controller. Polyspede makes them rated upto
500HP and input voltage from 380-480. A regenerative 200HP Polyspede
sells for about 4 grand. For the bigger ones the price jumps quickly.
One rated at 400HP is almost 10 grand.

Those horsepower numbers seem exceedingly large. Is it really required?
I'm thinking in terms of 100hp peak, 20hp continuous at most. It
might require a multi-speed transmission, but that's key to efficiency anyway. Am I overlooking something? A 12 kg LiFePO4 battery can deliver
about a kilowatt for a minute or so. Do you really want 250 of them?

Well, we are talking about a full size pickup truck in my case. Like I
said if we were looking at a gen 1 Miata or a Chevy Luv we could get by
with the readily available 90HP 144 volt system. Might even feel peppy
with the fact that electric motors start putting out near full torque
from a relatively low RPM. When you look at working vehicles things
change a bit. Even my S-10 pickup developed around 200HP (190ish if I
recall) with its 4.3L V6. At even 120HP of the Sonoma I had before the
S-10 with its 4 banger it was a dog. It would do freeway speed... down
hill with a tail wind. LOL.


An extended cab Ram 1500 is going to be around 5000lbs. Maybe heavier
with batteries. Motor is lighter with EV but batteries take that back.
Now I don't need highway speed, but there is no real torque benefit to
lots of gears. Not much anyway. Most EVs drive in 1 or 2 gears. I
think most just have a single speed gear box. They do not even have a shiftable gear box since you don't need gears for reverse. Highway
speed would not be needed for me, but I don't want some road raging
socker mom ramming me with her mini van or SUV or at best riding her
horn because it takes me half a minute to get up to speed.

When you get into full size pickup trucks I am thinking 160-200HP is
about the minimum for hauling a load and accelerating at a reasonable
rate even if you never drive over 55. I am aware that Chevy put the
4.3L out of the S-10 in a full size truck. That was really pushing the
minimum limit for a full size truck in my opinion. Still I think that
HP range is the minimum for a full size. Electrics have "some" torque advantages, but not enough to make up a severe lack of power.

For comparisons, all of my gas and diesel 3/4 ton trucks have developed
over 300HP, and my current one supposedly bumps over 400HP. I don't
think 200ish is unreasonable for a full size half ton extended cab. I mentioned that industrial inverters are available in larger sizes for reference, and because larger electric EV motors are readily available,
and not oversized for their applications.

My real insight though was, "What if we could use industrial motor
inverters instead of auto industry proprietary distribution inverters?"

bob prohaska

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On 3/1/2025 3:37 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Those horsepower numbers seem exceedingly large. Is it really required?
I'm thinking in terms of 100hp peak, 20hp continuous at most. It
might require a multi-speed transmission, but that's key to efficiency anyway. Am I overlooking something? A 12 kg LiFePO4 battery can deliver
about a kilowatt for a minute or so. Do you really want 250 of them?

bob prohaska

---------------------------------------
My 91 Ford Ranger has a 105HP 4 cylinder engine that can barely get it
to 70MPH on flat ground. It was fine around town and for commuting in
bumper to bumper traffic at 50MPH. I bought it for its 7' bed and put up
with the Pinto engine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto_engine#Lima_OHC_(LL)

"A version with two spark plugs per cylinder, distributor-less ignition,
and reduced main bearing sizes was introduced in the 1989 Ford Ranger
and 1991 Ford Mustang. This engine produced 105 hp (78 kW) and 183 N⋅m
(135 lb⋅ft)."

Jim basically made the same point as my long winded reply.

Horsepower is horsepower. I want to make a surface street work vehicle
out of it. Around here that means I'll have to do 55 once in a while to
get everywhere around town. I also want to be able to haul a little bit
with it.

If I was using it as a tractor substitute around the property it might
be different, but I have a tractor already.

Having owned a few trucks, all used for work, some rarely going highway
speed, I can't believe I'd want less than 200HP on tap, but if the price
was right I might live with 160ish.


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On 3/1/2025 3:51 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 3/1/2025 3:37 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Those horsepower numbers seem exceedingly large. Is it really required?
I'm thinking in terms of 100hp peak, 20hp continuous at most. It
might require a multi-speed transmission, but that's key to efficiency
anyway. Am I overlooking something? A 12 kg LiFePO4 battery can deliver
about a kilowatt for a minute or so. Do you really want 250 of them?

bob prohaska

---------------------------------------
My 91 Ford Ranger has a 105HP 4 cylinder engine that can barely get it
to 70MPH on flat ground. It was fine around town and for commuting in
bumper to bumper traffic at 50MPH. I bought it for its 7' bed and put
up with the Pinto engine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto_engine#Lima_OHC_(LL)

"A version with two spark plugs per cylinder, distributor-less
ignition, and reduced main bearing sizes was introduced in the 1989
Ford Ranger and 1991 Ford Mustang. This engine produced 105 hp (78 kW)
and 183 N⋅m (135 lb⋅ft)."

Jim basically made the same point as my long winded reply.

Horsepower is horsepower.  I want to make a surface street work vehicle
out of it.  Around here that means I'll have to do 55 once in a while to
get everywhere around town.  I also want to be able to haul a little bit with it.

If I was using it as a tractor substitute around the property it might
be different, but I have a tractor already.

Having owned a few trucks, all used for work, some rarely going highway speed, I can't believe I'd want less than 200HP on tap, but if the price
was right I might live with 160ish.

Now if you want to get silly look at this beast. https://www.fuel2electric.com/store/motors-and-controllers/revolt-systems-450kw-cr-43-B-crate-motor


450kW is about 533 horsepower.

Then look at the price.







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On 2/28/2025 7:09 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

On 2/27/2025 5:10 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

"The sheet metal behind it is all perfect for its age. 2013 Dodge Ram
1500 Extended Cab. Its a Dodge. I am sure there is stuff that doesn't >>>> work, but cosmetically it could be a nice truck." Yuma, Az

Apologies for the oversight....must have skipped it.

Its all good. If it wasn't more a rant than a creative post it would
have stood out more.

I rarely if ever offer anything for free anymore. To many vultures out >>>> there who profiteer off of it, rather than people with a real need who >>>> would appreciate it.

2013 is much newer than I imagined. Is scrapping it an improvement?

My initial thought was to be good to a renter who had been good to us,
and may come back to the area at some future date. Disposing of a
vehicle without any cost to myself. That it turned out to be a rather
nice truck was a bonus (and a curse). Scrapping probably pays for the
time I will have in dealing with it since they gave me the title.

Its a curse because if it wasn't decent I would have no issue with
dragging it up on a trailer and hauling it to a salvage yard. Straight
body, haven't noticed any rust, and the interior is intact. All the
bits and pieces laying in the bed to put the grill back together look
okay too. I have a hard time just "throwing it away," even if I'll get
paid for it.

I used to, but I grew weary of chasing off carrion
eaters. If I stumble across somebody, but not to the general public
maybe.

There are people who cruise the marketplace, craigslist, next door, etc
looking for opportunities to profiteer. I don't have an issue with it
on principle if they are not vultures preying on the weak or tweakers
looking for a quick buck to buy an 8-ball. There are legit salvage and
rebuild buyers as well. Unfortunately when I see far more of the former
than the later when I offer something cheap or free to help somebody out.

I'm not against a good deal, but I am against theft.

If you have the time that seems like the most productive use for it.
If it could be put back on the road for something close to the cost
of a similar used truck it sounds worthwhile. A straight, rust-free
body is irreplaceable.

Yeah, putting a new reman engine in it would the most labor, but the
least cost in materials to put it back on the road.

Any hope of finding a decent used engine?

Its always possible, but the OEM for this was a 4.7L V8. A
remanufactured 4.7 is 3 grand or less. The balance is that you aren't
supposed to reuse the intake ($900), and you should use a new water
pump, alternator, gaskets etc. Stuff that can leave you stranded use
new. I figure with incidentals it might run another 3 grand in other
parts. 6 grand. Maybe less if I spend more time shopping. I know
plenty of people buy used engines or repaired grade engines, but I
wouldn't go with less than a reman if I went that way. Its to much work
to have to do twice in short order.

I'm still actually
leaning towards an EV if I can find the right stuff. The Chinese are
leaps and bounds ahead of the US EV market. I can buy a new Chinese
200hp (which would be good for this application) even cheaper than the
Ford Mach-E, but I find the same problem. A lack of supply (that I can
buy) for everything to make it work.

An EV is a worthy experiment. Thought about it myself. But a handmade conversion won't be worth much, even if it works, to anybody but the originator once the experiment is complete. The learning curve for the
new owner is going to be steep. From the numbers you mentioned
earlier that sounds like it might get pricey, ~20k or something. A
used standard production EV can be resold for most of its purchase
price unless the battery drops dead.

I very much like the idea of an EV built with commodity components
as opposed to the proprietary designs prevailing in the marketplace.
A pickup truck seems on the face of it a good platform; lots of space
and no severe performance demands. But, it's a big project in time,
knowledge and money.

I asked one of my drive suppliers if an industrial high voltage inverter
could be used for an EV controller. Polyspede makes them rated upto
500HP and input voltage from 380-480. A regenerative 200HP Polyspede
sells for about 4 grand. For the bigger ones the price jumps quickly.
One rated at 400HP is almost 10 grand. My thought was remove the
rectifier, and tap in at the inverter with battery voltage, or atleast
at whatever they use for a voltage regulator. Should be a little
cheaper to make, and have a much broader demand outside of industrial
only applications. They already have all kinds of control inputs and
outputs designed in. In application it should run from a standard pedal control (pot), or have a switch to a closed loop application for "cruise control" without any other expensive circuitry. I have not heard back
from them. LOL.

One of my neighbors had a Tesla, which mysteriously dissapeared. When
I asked what happend, I was told that in hot weather the car turned
itself on when parked to run the AC to cool the batteries. That was
a wrinkle I never imagined.

I've never noticed my wife's Niro powering up anything to cool the
batteries. It gets parked in the garage, but this is SW Arizona. The
garage gets quite hot in the summer. It has to park inside the garage,
because that's where I installed the charging station.

FYI: Anybody with fair to decent household electrical knowledge can
install a level 2 charger. I went with a Schumacher, because it was considerably less money than the Kia/Hyundai charger. Level 1 chargers
can just plug into a wall outlet.

Likely there are more 8-)

Thanks for writing, and good luck....

bob prohaska

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Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

On 3/1/2025 2:23 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

I asked one of my drive suppliers if an industrial high voltage inverter >>> could be used for an EV controller. Polyspede makes them rated upto
500HP and input voltage from 380-480. A regenerative 200HP Polyspede
sells for about 4 grand. For the bigger ones the price jumps quickly.
One rated at 400HP is almost 10 grand.

Those horsepower numbers seem exceedingly large. Is it really required?
I'm thinking in terms of 100hp peak, 20hp continuous at most. It
might require a multi-speed transmission, but that's key to efficiency
anyway. Am I overlooking something? A 12 kg LiFePO4 battery can deliver
about a kilowatt for a minute or so. Do you really want 250 of them?

Well, we are talking about a full size pickup truck in my case. Like I
said if we were looking at a gen 1 Miata or a Chevy Luv we could get by
with the readily available 90HP 144 volt system. Might even feel peppy
with the fact that electric motors start putting out near full torque
from a relatively low RPM. When you look at working vehicles things
change a bit. Even my S-10 pickup developed around 200HP (190ish if I recall) with its 4.3L V6. At even 120HP of the Sonoma I had before the
S-10 with its 4 banger it was a dog. It would do freeway speed... down
hill with a tail wind. LOL.

An extended cab Ram 1500 is going to be around 5000lbs. Maybe heavier
with batteries. Motor is lighter with EV but batteries take that back.

Almost certainly much heavier. LiFePO4 commondity batteries that can
deliver 200 mechanical horsepower are going to weigh close to a ton. Lithium-cobalt and variants will be considerably less massive but
more expensive, more fragile and more destructive if they fail badly.

Now I don't need highway speed, but there is no real torque benefit to
lots of gears. Not much anyway. Most EVs drive in 1 or 2 gears. I
think most just have a single speed gear box. They do not even have a shiftable gear box since you don't need gears for reverse.

EVs benefit from a shiftable transmission exactly the way IC vehicles
do. The transmission minimizes current draw when torque is needed and
minimizes voltage required when speed is needed. Their omission is a
matter of cost control, not design optimization. The only thing they
don't need is a clutch. The current minimzation is especially important, because electrical efficiency is inversely proportional to the square
of the current draw.

When you get into full size pickup trucks I am thinking 160-200HP is
about the minimum for hauling a load and accelerating at a reasonable
rate even if you never drive over 55. I am aware that Chevy put the
4.3L out of the S-10 in a full size truck. That was really pushing the minimum limit for a full size truck in my opinion. Still I think that
HP range is the minimum for a full size. Electrics have "some" torque advantages, but not enough to make up a severe lack of power.

For comparisons, all of my gas and diesel 3/4 ton trucks have developed
over 300HP, and my current one supposedly bumps over 400HP. I don't
think 200ish is unreasonable for a full size half ton extended cab. I mentioned that industrial inverters are available in larger sizes for reference, and because larger electric EV motors are readily available,
and not oversized for their applications.

My real insight though was, "What if we could use industrial motor
inverters instead of auto industry proprietary distribution inverters?"

Clearly you can, but now that I understand your performance desires
the project is going to be pricey indeed. It isn't unreasonable to
_want_ 200 horsepower in an EV, but as you've discovered it's expensive.
The project isn't impossible, but it's cost ineffective and likely to
remain so for the foreseeable future. Silly styling aside, a Tesla
Cybertruck is close to the best-performing EV truck possible now.
I'd be curious to know how it compares to what you're looking for.
Or maybe the Ford F150 Lighting.

bob prohaska

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On 3/1/2025 5:52 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

EVs benefit from a shiftable transmission exactly the way IC vehicles
do. The transmission minimizes current draw when torque is needed and minimizes voltage required when speed is needed. Their omission is a
matter of cost control, not design optimization. The only thing they
don't need is a clutch. The current minimzation is especially important, because electrical efficiency is inversely proportional to the square
of the current draw.

You are right of course. Maybe not exactly, but the principal is
certainly still true. I would not be a fan of dropping an EV motor in
front of a Dodge automatic transmission. I'm not even sure it would
operate without being hooked to the Dodge computer.

--
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CNC Molds N Stuff

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On 3/1/2025 5:52 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

On 3/1/2025 2:23 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

I asked one of my drive suppliers if an industrial high voltage inverter >>>> could be used for an EV controller. Polyspede makes them rated upto
500HP and input voltage from 380-480. A regenerative 200HP Polyspede
sells for about 4 grand. For the bigger ones the price jumps quickly. >>>> One rated at 400HP is almost 10 grand.

Those horsepower numbers seem exceedingly large. Is it really required?
I'm thinking in terms of 100hp peak, 20hp continuous at most. It
might require a multi-speed transmission, but that's key to efficiency
anyway. Am I overlooking something? A 12 kg LiFePO4 battery can deliver
about a kilowatt for a minute or so. Do you really want 250 of them?

Well, we are talking about a full size pickup truck in my case. Like I
said if we were looking at a gen 1 Miata or a Chevy Luv we could get by
with the readily available 90HP 144 volt system. Might even feel peppy
with the fact that electric motors start putting out near full torque
from a relatively low RPM. When you look at working vehicles things
change a bit. Even my S-10 pickup developed around 200HP (190ish if I
recall) with its 4.3L V6. At even 120HP of the Sonoma I had before the
S-10 with its 4 banger it was a dog. It would do freeway speed... down
hill with a tail wind. LOL.


An extended cab Ram 1500 is going to be around 5000lbs. Maybe heavier
with batteries. Motor is lighter with EV but batteries take that back.

Almost certainly much heavier. LiFePO4 commondity batteries that can
deliver 200 mechanical horsepower are going to weigh close to a ton. Lithium-cobalt and variants will be considerably less massive but
more expensive, more fragile and more destructive if they fail badly.

Now I don't need highway speed, but there is no real torque benefit to
lots of gears. Not much anyway. Most EVs drive in 1 or 2 gears. I
think most just have a single speed gear box. They do not even have a
shiftable gear box since you don't need gears for reverse.

EVs benefit from a shiftable transmission exactly the way IC vehicles
do. The transmission minimizes current draw when torque is needed and minimizes voltage required when speed is needed. Their omission is a
matter of cost control, not design optimization. The only thing they
don't need is a clutch. The current minimzation is especially important, because electrical efficiency is inversely proportional to the square
of the current draw.

When you get into full size pickup trucks I am thinking 160-200HP is
about the minimum for hauling a load and accelerating at a reasonable
rate even if you never drive over 55. I am aware that Chevy put the
4.3L out of the S-10 in a full size truck. That was really pushing the
minimum limit for a full size truck in my opinion. Still I think that
HP range is the minimum for a full size. Electrics have "some" torque
advantages, but not enough to make up a severe lack of power.

For comparisons, all of my gas and diesel 3/4 ton trucks have developed
over 300HP, and my current one supposedly bumps over 400HP. I don't
think 200ish is unreasonable for a full size half ton extended cab. I
mentioned that industrial inverters are available in larger sizes for
reference, and because larger electric EV motors are readily available,
and not oversized for their applications.

My real insight though was, "What if we could use industrial motor
inverters instead of auto industry proprietary distribution inverters?"

Clearly you can, but now that I understand your performance desires
the project is going to be pricey indeed. It isn't unreasonable to
_want_ 200 horsepower in an EV, but as you've discovered it's expensive.

Yep. Stupid expensive. Actually I've been doing more and more research (between changing tools) and there are some compromises, and some
vendors who are just weird. 200HP is NOT an unreasonable amount of
power for a full size truck. Even a half ton. Its really a practical
minimum. 0-60 of nearly 20 seconds makes you an obstruction on the
road. I DON'T WANT LIKE GET A WOODY FOR IT WANT 200HP like its
something special. 200HP is really kinda lame for a truck. Taking my
dad's old Bronco and stroking it out to 400+ cubic inches and 400+HP is
a want. Its also a lot cheaper than 200 EV horsepower. LOL. 200HP is
a NEED for a practical truck even at "surface" speeds. I suspect we are
going to continue to disagree on that, and that's okay.

Interestingly the 96HP 144V option seems to actually produce 120 Peak
HP. Probably only good for a few seconds, but...

The project isn't impossible, but it's cost ineffective and likely to
remain so for the foreseeable future.

Batteries are always an issue, but if it had 50 miles range it would be adequate for its intended use. Everything is expensive, but batteries
seem to be about the biggest drain on the budget.



Silly styling aside, a Tesla

Cybertruck is close to the best-performing EV truck possible now.
I'd be curious to know how it compares to what you're looking for.
Or maybe the Ford F150 Lighting.

bob prohaska

--
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CNC Molds N Stuff

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