On Sat, 08 Feb 2025 06:06:18 +0000
Richard Smith <null@void.com> wrote:

Hi all

Working with
Rectangular Hollow Sections
Square Hollow Sections
box sections
...

The rounded corners make using an adjustable square / sliding square >problematic.

<snip>

Not following you exactly,.. some links that may help or give you some
more ideas.

Fireball Tools has some really innovative squares for welding and metal working:

https://fireballtool.com/products/mega-square

and Strong Hand Tools has similar stuff:

https://stronghandtools.com

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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On 2/8/2025 12:06 AM, Richard Smith wrote:

Hi all

Working with
Rectangular Hollow Sections
Square Hollow Sections
box sections
...

The rounded corners make using an adjustable square / sliding square problematic.

Given number of machine parts I have to make quite accurately based on
SHS's, thinking of a tool specially optimised for marking distances
from the surfaces.
ie. whatever presents as "top", slide along marking down the "sides". Typically the middle of the "sides".

Accuracy - well using a chalk / soapstone is plenty good enough.
Have to bring magnetic-base drill to the job most of the time, and
with using a shell-cutter / trepanning cutter with a central "pin" to
locate on the centre-pop - accuracy there is less than chalking gives.
So - would hold thing in place and chalk-mark.

I could trim offcuts of angle-iron to make single-dimension tools -
eg. marks 25mm from "top" surface.
Advantage with this or "settable" tool is spin around 180deg and mark
the other "side" and the two heights/levels should match-up.

Hope described this well enough.

Best wishes

I've seen combination squares with a wide flange on the head that
will do what you want . Here's a link to one on Amazon , kinda pricey
but you might be able to find one cheaper .

https://primeweld.com/products/lagesse-products-lasquare-12-combination-square-stainless-steel-blade-aluminum-square-head
--
Snag
We live in a time where intelligent people
are being silenced so that
stupid people won't be offended.

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On 2/8/2025 5:56 AM, Snag wrote:

On 2/8/2025 12:06 AM, Richard Smith wrote:

Hi all

Working with
Rectangular Hollow Sections
Square Hollow Sections
box sections
...

The rounded corners make using an adjustable square / sliding square
problematic.

Given number of machine parts I have to make quite accurately based on
SHS's, thinking of a tool specially optimised for marking distances
from the surfaces.
ie. whatever presents as "top", slide along marking down the "sides".
Typically the middle of the "sides".

Accuracy - well using a chalk / soapstone is plenty good enough.
Have to bring magnetic-base drill to the job most of the time, and
with using a shell-cutter / trepanning cutter with a central "pin" to
locate on the centre-pop - accuracy there is less than chalking gives.
So - would hold thing in place and chalk-mark.

I could trim offcuts of angle-iron to make single-dimension tools -
eg. marks 25mm from "top" surface.
Advantage with this or "settable" tool is spin around 180deg and mark
the other "side" and the two heights/levels should match-up.

Hope described this well enough.

Best wishes

  I've seen combination squares with a wide flange on the head that
will do what you want . Here's a link to one on Amazon , kinda pricey
but you might be able to find one cheaper .

https://primeweld.com/products/lagesse-products-lasquare-12-combination- square-stainless-steel-blade-aluminum-square-head

Exactly what I was thinking of. Might even be able to swap out to a
longer scale if needed. I had (maybe still have somewhere) a
combination square with an 18 inch scale.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
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Thanks everyone for all tips.

One is, given saw cutting long lengths of "box" is accurate transversely
but less so "vertically" due to spring in section and distance outrigger
is from saw, position "flash" at "side" as sawn so have "square" end
as do "measure along" direction AND drill can go through both sides of
"box" on drill-press, not risking hitting "flash" on opposite side.

I will look if adjustable square with a wide "foot" is available. Would
need a "foot" about 2inches / 50mm wide for when doing big Rectangular
Hollow Sections with big corner radii.

Bigger overall point - thanks a lot everyone.

Regards,
Rich S

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On 2/9/2025 1:10 AM, Richard Smith wrote:

Thanks everyone for all tips.

One is, given saw cutting long lengths of "box" is accurate transversely
but less so "vertically" due to spring in section and distance outrigger
is from saw, position "flash" at "side" as sawn so have "square" end
as do "measure along" direction AND drill can go through both sides of
"box" on drill-press, not risking hitting "flash" on opposite side.

I will look if adjustable square with a wide "foot" is available. Would
need a "foot" about 2inches / 50mm wide for when doing big Rectangular
Hollow Sections with big corner radii.

Bigger overall point - thanks a lot everyone.

Regards,
Rich S

I could make one, but shipping across the pond would probably be a deal breaker.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

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Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

On 2/9/2025 1:10 AM, Richard Smith wrote:

Thanks everyone for all tips.
One is, given saw cutting long lengths of "box" is accurate
transversely
but less so "vertically" due to spring in section and distance outrigger
is from saw, position "flash" at "side" as sawn so have "square" end
as do "measure along" direction AND drill can go through both sides of
"box" on drill-press, not risking hitting "flash" on opposite side.
I will look if adjustable square with a wide "foot" is available.
Would
need a "foot" about 2inches / 50mm wide for when doing big Rectangular
Hollow Sections with big corner radii.
Bigger overall point - thanks a lot everyone.
Regards,
Rich S

I could make one, but shipping across the pond would probably be a
deal breaker.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

Thanks for supportive wishes.
Appreciated anyway.
See my post responding to all.

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On 2/9/2025 10:13 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:voam42$nkda$1@dont-email.me...

On 2/9/2025 1:10 AM, Richard Smith wrote:

Thanks everyone for all tips.

One is, given saw cutting long lengths of "box" is accurate transversely
but less so "vertically" due to spring in section and distance outrigger
is from saw, position "flash" at "side" as sawn so have "square" end
as do "measure along" direction AND drill can go through both sides of
"box" on drill-press, not risking hitting "flash" on opposite side.

I will look if adjustable square with a wide "foot" is available.  Would
need a "foot" about 2inches / 50mm wide for when doing big Rectangular
Hollow Sections with big corner radii.

Bigger overall point - thanks a lot everyone.

Regards,
Rich S

I could make one, but shipping across the pond would probably be a deal breaker.

Yep. I read your other reply. No big deal for even a hobby machinist.

What he is doing is pretty coarse I think. Could probably do it with an
old wood workers marking gage and a nail for a scribe. Hundreds of
years of fine wood working was done that way with a story board to
repeat measurements from piece to piece for "production" work.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
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Hello everyone
Your various ideas caused a thought to "gel".
I will try this.
Get a smooth piece of plate a bit wider than the box-section.
Place your "ordinary" adjustable square on it, at the edge.
Make the blade/rule of the adjustable square protrude beneath the plate
lower surface by the amount you want to mark-off - eg. 25mm.
Bring "free" plate's edge to align with "side" surface of box you want
to mark, with the already-set adjustable square on it, and with hand
pressure keeping eveything touching where it should, slide along with
chalk under tip of adjustable-square blade.
Spin plate with adjustable square through 180deg and do same marking
down other side.
Those "heights" on the two "sides" will agree - probably the most
important thing.
Mark distances from the end of the box at which holes are and centre-pop
at the intersections.
Drill.
Done.

Hope this makes sense...

Will see whether this works - and report back, volente dio.

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Hi all - update Monday 10 February 2025 20:29

I found some Ali extruded angle, hence sharp inside corner.
Trimmed one side to give 25mm down side of from surface the angle si
resting on.
Took a bit of fiddling and measuring, but once made, blessing.
Then my two adjustable squares went to mark in the length direction
where the holes go.
Every indication is it's very consistent and is accurate.

The important things are
* that the holes on opposite sides line-up
* that the holes at at specified centres.
All others are significantly less critical.

With the angle "measure" having chalked one side I spun the angle
around so it sat on the same "top face" but extended down the other
side.

The method mentioned seems to meet the requirements.

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The "angle-aluminum" with its "drop-down" from the "top" surface marks
down from that top surface. This is a longitudinal mark. It will
always "match-up" (?).

I am painfully aware that these best-meant descriptions, where you'd
want a sketch, can be impenetrable.

Best wishes,

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I sometimes do my "temporary webpages".
Affirmation that they serve well.
It is quick to sketch, photo, and put in a "temporary pages" section of
the/my website. Delete after say 6 months in general clear-outs.
Best wishes

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Hi all

Working with
Rectangular Hollow Sections
Square Hollow Sections
box sections
...

The rounded corners make using an adjustable square / sliding square problematic.

Given number of machine parts I have to make quite accurately based on
SHS's, thinking of a tool specially optimised for marking distances
from the surfaces.
ie. whatever presents as "top", slide along marking down the "sides".
Typically the middle of the "sides".

Accuracy - well using a chalk / soapstone is plenty good enough.
Have to bring magnetic-base drill to the job most of the time, and
with using a shell-cutter / trepanning cutter with a central "pin" to
locate on the centre-pop - accuracy there is less than chalking gives.
So - would hold thing in place and chalk-mark.

I could trim offcuts of angle-iron to make single-dimension tools -
eg. marks 25mm from "top" surface.
Advantage with this or "settable" tool is spin around 180deg and mark
the other "side" and the two heights/levels should match-up.

Hope described this well enough.

Best wishes

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