• [OT] Judges discover constitutional rights to bike lanes and also drug

    From Rhino@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 6 12:43:26 2025
    America is not the only country that has activist judges. We have them
    here in Canada too. Brian Lilley and Adam Zivo describe several cases of judicial activism and consider remedies like electing judges rather than appointing them as we currently do.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7R4cVgqfZA [16 minutes]

    --
    Rhino

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BTR1701@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 6 17:20:16 2025
    On May 6, 2025 at 9:43:26 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    America is not the only country that has activist judges. We have them
    here in Canada too. Brian Lilley and Adam Zivo describe several cases of judicial activism and consider remedies like electing judges rather than appointing them as we currently do.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7R4cVgqfZA [16 minutes]

    I misread this at first and thought you'd found an *American* judge ruling
    that bike lanes are constitutionally protected. I was about to lose my shit.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From moviePig@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 6 14:18:44 2025
    On 5/6/2025 1:20 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
    On May 6, 2025 at 9:43:26 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    America is not the only country that has activist judges. We have them
    here in Canada too. Brian Lilley and Adam Zivo describe several cases of
    judicial activism and consider remedies like electing judges rather than
    appointing them as we currently do.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7R4cVgqfZA [16 minutes]

    I misread this at first and thought you'd found an *American* judge ruling that bike lanes are constitutionally protected. I was about to lose my shit.

    Is Canada's Constitution much more "liberal" than the U.S.'s?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rhino@21:1/5 to moviePig on Tue May 6 14:56:13 2025
    On 2025-05-06 2:18 PM, moviePig wrote:
    On 5/6/2025 1:20 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
    On May 6, 2025 at 9:43:26 AM PDT, "Rhino"
    <no_offline_contact@example.com>
    wrote:

    America is not the only country that has activist judges. We have them
    here in Canada too. Brian Lilley and Adam Zivo describe several cases of >>> judicial activism and consider remedies like electing judges rather than >>> appointing them as we currently do.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7R4cVgqfZA [16 minutes]

    I misread this at first and thought you'd found an *American* judge
    ruling
    that bike lanes are constitutionally protected. I was about to lose my
    shit.

    Is Canada's Constitution much more "liberal" than the U.S.'s?


    Our equivalent to the US Constitution is the Charter of Rights and
    Freedoms. Whether it is more liberal than the US's depends on how you
    define "liberal". Overall, I would say it is considerably weaker in
    terms of individual rights with more emphasis on "peace, order, and good government" than a strong interest in "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". We have nothing like the 2nd Amendment to protect gun
    ownership and whatever rights we had have been dramatically eroded
    during the past 10 years of Liberal governance.

    You can make your own assessment by reading the Charter here: https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/

    --
    Rhino

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to atropos@mac.com on Tue May 6 19:03:14 2025
    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
    May 6, 2025 at 9:43:26 AM PDT, Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com>:

    America is not the only country that has activist judges. We have them
    here in Canada too. Brian Lilley and Adam Zivo describe several cases of >>judicial activism and consider remedies like electing judges rather than >>appointing them as we currently do.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7R4cVgqfZA [16 minutes]

    I misread this at first and thought you'd found an *American* judge ruling >that bike lanes are constitutionally protected. I was about to lose my shit.

    Article I, Section 8, postal clause

    To establish Post Offices and post Roads

    It's a delegated power.

    A "post road" is any transportation facility the mails might move upon.
    Letter carriers have made deliveries by bicycle.

    Furthermore, the right to travel is a common law right, hell, the right predates common law. Our current system of roads and who gets highway
    access infringed upon ancient rights to promote automobile use.

    Of course there's a legal argument to be made.

    Now, bicycle lanes infringe upon my rights as a pedestrian to cross the
    street, but I'm already in danger from drivers of motor vehicles who
    refuse to yield when they don't have right of way, so I'm probably not
    worse off.

    As far as the right to a homeless encampment without rules against open
    air drug use, I have no problem if the encampment were relocated to the
    street in front of the judge's home, physically protecting it with
    barriers to allow the homeless to live right on the street in safety
    from automobile accidents.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Rhino@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 6 15:08:20 2025
    On 2025-05-06 1:20 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
    On May 6, 2025 at 9:43:26 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    America is not the only country that has activist judges. We have them
    here in Canada too. Brian Lilley and Adam Zivo describe several cases of
    judicial activism and consider remedies like electing judges rather than
    appointing them as we currently do.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7R4cVgqfZA [16 minutes]

    I misread this at first and thought you'd found an *American* judge ruling that bike lanes are constitutionally protected. I was about to lose my shit.


    I know you are frustrated by the bike lanes in your own area and how
    they are being made by closing car lanes in already over-crowded
    streets. It's pretty much the same here.

    Toronto city council is gung ho for bike lanes - as are just about all
    the municipalities in this area. Virtually EVERY candidate for public
    office ritually affirms their support for bike lanes, as if there is
    some widespread demand for them. If there is, I have yet to hear it: I'm convinced that this is coming from city planners because that is what
    their governing bodies have deemed the right thing to do.

    We used to be able to park in front of the house overnight if we wanted,
    for example if there was an overnight guest who'd come by car. But the
    city banned overnight parking many years ago. I don't remember the
    rationale they used but I think they were worried about snow removal
    being more difficult if cars were parked on the street. Then a few years
    back, they put in bike lanes - bike lanes that basically only run down
    our street but don't connect to anything else, making them esentially
    useless for getting around town. Then they put in a cross walk which has
    an island in the middle of the road but which is almost never used. (I
    can see it from my kitchen window.) Because of the island, it is now
    illegal to even STOP on our block so people actually risk a ticket even
    for stopping for a moment to drop someone off. Progress!

    --
    Rhino

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BTR1701@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 6 19:06:02 2025
    On May 6, 2025 at 11:56:13 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    On 2025-05-06 2:18 PM, moviePig wrote:
    On 5/6/2025 1:20 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
    On May 6, 2025 at 9:43:26 AM PDT, "Rhino"
    <no_offline_contact@example.com>
    wrote:

    America is not the only country that has activist judges. We have them >>>> here in Canada too. Brian Lilley and Adam Zivo describe several cases of >>>> judicial activism and consider remedies like electing judges rather than >>>> appointing them as we currently do.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7R4cVgqfZA [16 minutes]

    I misread this at first and thought you'd found an *American* judge
    ruling
    that bike lanes are constitutionally protected. I was about to lose my
    shit.

    Is Canada's Constitution much more "liberal" than the U.S.'s?

    The Canadian Charter isn't nearly as concerned with individual rights as the American Constitution. I'll leave it to you as to whether that's more or less liberal or not.

    Regardless, however, the idea that bike lanes would be constitutionally protected in America would have to be one of the most absurd legal takes I've ever heard. Bikes weren't even invented until 1817 so there's no question the Founders didn't intend for "freedom of biking" when they wrote the Constitution. And regulation of traffic of any kind is squarely in the jurisdiction of the state and local governments per the 10th Amendment. Which is why I started hyperventilating when I mistakenly thought Rhino's article
    was about the U.S. at first.

    Our equivalent to the US Constitution is the Charter of Rights and
    Freedoms. Whether it is more liberal than the US's depends on how you
    define "liberal". Overall, I would say it is considerably weaker in
    terms of individual rights with more emphasis on "peace, order, and good government" than a strong interest in "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". We have nothing like the 2nd Amendment to protect gun
    ownership and whatever rights we had have been dramatically eroded
    during the past 10 years of Liberal governance.

    You also have no 1st Amendment that hamstrings government attempts to punish speech, so your right to free speech is limited to whatever 51% of the public say it is at any given time.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to atropos@mac.com on Tue May 6 19:22:41 2025
    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

    . . .

    Regardless, however, the idea that bike lanes would be constitutionally >protected in America would have to be one of the most absurd legal takes
    I've ever heard. Bikes weren't even invented until 1817 so there's
    no question the Founders didn't intend for "freedom of biking" when
    they wrote the Constitution. And regulation of traffic of any kind is >squarely in the jurisdiction of the state and local governments per the
    10th Amendment. Which is why I started hyperventilating when I mistakenly >thought Rhino's article was about the U.S. at first.

    The Founding Fathers didn't intend that constitutional language would
    be used to restrict liberty, anticipating changes in technology. Nor was
    the Constitution written to restrict liberty to enumerated civil rights
    only, hence the Ninth Amendment. Freedom to travel predates the
    Constitution and wouldn't have been a right the Founders would have
    infringed upon.

    Or do you believe 'freedom of the press" was limited to only that mass communication produced by printing press and distributed by means that
    hadn't changed since the 18th century, or does it mean any form of
    publishing using any method to fix words and ideas and any means of distribution as the technologhy of commucation changes?

    . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BTR1701@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Tue May 6 19:27:57 2025
    On May 6, 2025 at 12:22:41 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

    . . .

    Regardless, however, the idea that bike lanes would be constitutionally
    protected in America would have to be one of the most absurd legal takes
    I've ever heard. Bikes weren't even invented until 1817 so there's
    no question the Founders didn't intend for "freedom of biking" when
    they wrote the Constitution. And regulation of traffic of any kind is
    squarely in the jurisdiction of the state and local governments per the
    10th Amendment. Which is why I started hyperventilating when I mistakenly
    thought Rhino's article was about the U.S. at first.

    The Founding Fathers didn't intend that constitutional language would
    be used to restrict liberty, anticipating changes in technology. Nor was
    the Constitution written to restrict liberty to enumerated civil rights
    only, hence the Ninth Amendment. Freedom to travel predates the
    Constitution and wouldn't have been a right the Founders would have
    infringed upon.

    Or do you believe 'freedom of the press" was limited to only that mass communication produced by printing press and distributed by means that
    hadn't changed since the 18th century, or does it mean any form of
    publishing using any method to fix words and ideas and any means of distribution as the technologhy of commucation changes?

    I simply don't believe the Founders intended federal jurisdiction over local traffic laws and road design.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BTR1701@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 6 19:25:34 2025
    On May 6, 2025 at 12:08:20 PM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    On 2025-05-06 1:20 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
    On May 6, 2025 at 9:43:26 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> >> wrote:

    America is not the only country that has activist judges. We have them
    here in Canada too. Brian Lilley and Adam Zivo describe several cases of >>> judicial activism and consider remedies like electing judges rather than >>> appointing them as we currently do.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7R4cVgqfZA [16 minutes]

    I misread this at first and thought you'd found an *American* judge ruling >> that bike lanes are constitutionally protected. I was about to lose my shit.

    I know you are frustrated by the bike lanes in your own area and how
    they are being made by closing car lanes in already over-crowded
    streets.

    And they sit completely unused.

    This is Southern California with its perfect year-around weather, so naturally many people bike.

    For recreation!

    They do it on weekends and holidays on the dedicated bike trails in the hills and on the beach. Not on the city roads. They don't use bikes to commute to work or run grocery errands or any of that stuff. I couldn't bike to my former job and survive the trip even if I wanted to bike 48 miles/day (24 to the office and 24 back home). There's no way to get from where I live to downtown that doesn't involve cutting through some of the most violent and
    gang-infested neighborhoods in the country. Imagine how long a white guy pedaling along on his bike would last in Compton or Watts or Inglewood.

    Toronto city council is gung ho for bike lanes - as are just about all
    the municipalities in this area. Virtually EVERY candidate for public
    office ritually affirms their support for bike lanes, as if there is
    some widespread demand for them. If there is, I have yet to hear it: I'm convinced that this is coming from city planners because that is what
    their governing bodies have deemed the right thing to do.

    Here it's the Climate Cult that's responsible for the proliferation of bike lanes everywhere. They really believe 14 million people are going to give up their cars and start biking vast distances to work and back everyday. Like I said, my trip would be 48 miles. But there are hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of people who live in the Valley and commute into downtown or to places like Hollywood or Century City. Those people would not only have that same 50-mile roundtrip commute, but they have a mountain range in between
    their homes and their work. Nothing like biking through the Sepulveda Pass and over the Santa Monica mountains in high summer when the temps are 90-100 degrees. Even if you survive the coronary, you arrive at work a sweaty sopping mess.

    The Climate Cult is simply nuts when it comes to their utopian vision of bike lanes, just like they are with everything else.

    We used to be able to park in front of the house overnight if we wanted,
    for example if there was an overnight guest who'd come by car. But the
    city banned overnight parking many years ago. I don't remember the
    rationale they used but I think they were worried about snow removal
    being more difficult if cars were parked on the street.

    Our city bans overnight parking to keep people who live in their cars and vans from setting up a permanent 'residence' right in front of people's homes. It's an anti-vagrant ordinance and thank god for it.

    Then a few years
    back, they put in bike lanes - bike lanes that basically only run down
    our street but don't connect to anything else, making them esentially
    useless for getting around town. Then they put in a cross walk which has
    an island in the middle of the road but which is almost never used. (I
    can see it from my kitchen window.) Because of the island, it is now
    illegal to even STOP on our block so people actually risk a ticket even
    for stopping for a moment to drop someone off. Progress!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to Rhino on Tue May 6 19:28:41 2025
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    . . .

    We used to be able to park in front of the house overnight if we wanted,
    for example if there was an overnight guest who'd come by car. But the
    city banned overnight parking many years ago.

    Parking infringes upon shared use of the public way, and overnight
    parking usurps the public way for private use. There's no issue with
    short term parking but there's sure as hell an issue with long term
    parking.

    I don't remember the
    rationale they used but I think they were worried about snow removal
    being more difficult if cars were parked on the street. Then a few years >back, they put in bike lanes - bike lanes that basically only run down
    our street but don't connect to anything else, making them esentially
    useless for getting around town. Then they put in a cross walk which has
    an island in the middle of the road but which is almost never used. (I
    can see it from my kitchen window.) Because of the island, it is now
    illegal to even STOP on our block so people actually risk a ticket even
    for stopping for a moment to drop someone off. Progress!

    That's ridiculous. The whole point of a road is to access property. Of
    course it's there for pickup and delivery, and to allow people to get
    dropped off or picked up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rhino@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 6 15:53:57 2025
    On 2025-05-06 3:25 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
    On May 6, 2025 at 12:08:20 PM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    On 2025-05-06 1:20 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
    On May 6, 2025 at 9:43:26 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com>
    wrote:

    America is not the only country that has activist judges. We have them >>>> here in Canada too. Brian Lilley and Adam Zivo describe several cases of >>>> judicial activism and consider remedies like electing judges rather than >>>> appointing them as we currently do.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7R4cVgqfZA [16 minutes]

    I misread this at first and thought you'd found an *American* judge ruling
    that bike lanes are constitutionally protected. I was about to lose my shit.

    I know you are frustrated by the bike lanes in your own area and how
    they are being made by closing car lanes in already over-crowded
    streets.

    And they sit completely unused.

    Our bike lanes don't get much use either, even in good weather. (We also
    get the odd loony that rides a bike in the winter, even on a snowy, icy
    day.) You're more likely to see bicycles on the sidewalk than in the
    bike lane. I recently had a guy hauling ass down the sidewalk on his
    bicycle as I was coming toward him. He moved over a bit on the sidewalk
    to avoid hitting me and I pointed and said "There's a bike lane RIGHT
    THERE!". He just ignored me and stayed on the sidewalk.

    This is Southern California with its perfect year-around weather, so naturally
    many people bike.

    For recreation!

    They do it on weekends and holidays on the dedicated bike trails in the hills and on the beach. Not on the city roads. They don't use bikes to commute to work or run grocery errands or any of that stuff. I couldn't bike to my former
    job and survive the trip even if I wanted to bike 48 miles/day (24 to the office and 24 back home). There's no way to get from where I live to downtown that doesn't involve cutting through some of the most violent and gang-infested neighborhoods in the country. Imagine how long a white guy pedaling along on his bike would last in Compton or Watts or Inglewood.

    Toronto city council is gung ho for bike lanes - as are just about all
    the municipalities in this area. Virtually EVERY candidate for public
    office ritually affirms their support for bike lanes, as if there is
    some widespread demand for them. If there is, I have yet to hear it: I'm
    convinced that this is coming from city planners because that is what
    their governing bodies have deemed the right thing to do.

    Here it's the Climate Cult that's responsible for the proliferation of bike lanes everywhere. They really believe 14 million people are going to give up their cars and start biking vast distances to work and back everyday. Like I said, my trip would be 48 miles. But there are hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of people who live in the Valley and commute into downtown or to places like Hollywood or Century City. Those people would not only have that same 50-mile roundtrip commute, but they have a mountain range in between their homes and their work. Nothing like biking through the Sepulveda Pass and
    over the Santa Monica mountains in high summer when the temps are 90-100 degrees. Even if you survive the coronary, you arrive at work a sweaty sopping
    mess.

    The Climate Cult is simply nuts when it comes to their utopian vision of bike lanes, just like they are with everything else.

    I expect that our city planners are inspired by the climate cultists. It certainly isn't some massive demand from ordinary people, who
    overwhelmingly prefer cars.

    We used to be able to park in front of the house overnight if we wanted,
    for example if there was an overnight guest who'd come by car. But the
    city banned overnight parking many years ago. I don't remember the
    rationale they used but I think they were worried about snow removal
    being more difficult if cars were parked on the street.

    Our city bans overnight parking to keep people who live in their cars and vans
    from setting up a permanent 'residence' right in front of people's homes. It's
    an anti-vagrant ordinance and thank god for it.

    Then a few years
    back, they put in bike lanes - bike lanes that basically only run down
    our street but don't connect to anything else, making them esentially
    useless for getting around town. Then they put in a cross walk which has
    an island in the middle of the road but which is almost never used. (I
    can see it from my kitchen window.) Because of the island, it is now
    illegal to even STOP on our block so people actually risk a ticket even
    for stopping for a moment to drop someone off. Progress!




    --
    Rhino

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to atropos@mac.com on Tue May 6 19:41:48 2025
    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
    May 6, 2025 at 12:22:41 PM PDT, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

    . . .

    Regardless, however, the idea that bike lanes would be constitutionally >>>protected in America would have to be one of the most absurd legal takes >>>I've ever heard. Bikes weren't even invented until 1817 so there's
    no question the Founders didn't intend for "freedom of biking" when
    they wrote the Constitution. And regulation of traffic of any kind is >>>squarely in the jurisdiction of the state and local governments per the >>>10th Amendment. Which is why I started hyperventilating when I mistakenly >>>thought Rhino's article was about the U.S. at first.

    The Founding Fathers didn't intend that constitutional language would
    be used to restrict liberty, anticipating changes in technology. Nor was >>the Constitution written to restrict liberty to enumerated civil rights >>only, hence the Ninth Amendment. Freedom to travel predates the >>Constitution and wouldn't have been a right the Founders would have >>infringed upon.

    Or do you believe 'freedom of the press" was limited to only that mass >>communication produced by printing press and distributed by means that >>hadn't changed since the 18th century, or does it mean any form of >>publishing using any method to fix words and ideas and any means of >>distribution as the technologhy of commucation changes?

    I simply don't believe the Founders intended federal jurisdiction over local >traffic laws and road design.

    It's inferred in the postal clause. Furthermore, if a letter carrier
    violates restrictions on road use, he isn't subject to citations for
    nonmoving violations per national supremacy.

    The way it's worked throughout the entire automobile era, predating
    Johnson's Department of Transportaton as a Great Society program and
    predating Roosevelt's WPA/PWA, is that state highway commissioners,
    acting through AASHTO, would agree upon highway designs, and if these
    designs were thought to benefit from federal standards, the standard
    would be incorporated by regulation of FHWA and predecessor agencies.

    There actually have been major aspects of road design standards with
    federal regulation and it does not violate federalism.

    But there's absolutely an argument that road design can and does violate
    the unenumerated right of freedom to travel.

    The Constitution doesn't address all human liberty, nor was it intended
    to.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rhino@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Tue May 6 15:55:51 2025
    On 2025-05-06 3:28 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    . . .

    We used to be able to park in front of the house overnight if we wanted,
    for example if there was an overnight guest who'd come by car. But the
    city banned overnight parking many years ago.

    Parking infringes upon shared use of the public way, and overnight
    parking usurps the public way for private use. There's no issue with
    short term parking but there's sure as hell an issue with long term
    parking.

    I don't remember the
    rationale they used but I think they were worried about snow removal
    being more difficult if cars were parked on the street. Then a few years
    back, they put in bike lanes - bike lanes that basically only run down
    our street but don't connect to anything else, making them esentially
    useless for getting around town. Then they put in a cross walk which has
    an island in the middle of the road but which is almost never used. (I
    can see it from my kitchen window.) Because of the island, it is now
    illegal to even STOP on our block so people actually risk a ticket even
    for stopping for a moment to drop someone off. Progress!

    That's ridiculous. The whole point of a road is to access property. Of
    course it's there for pickup and delivery, and to allow people to get
    dropped off or picked up.

    Agreed. I should probably have mentioned that I'm not aware of anyone
    who actually GOT a ticket for stopping on our block but the signage
    implies that it could happen.

    --
    Rhino

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BTR1701@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Tue May 6 20:49:37 2025
    On May 6, 2025 at 12:41:48 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
    May 6, 2025 at 12:22:41 PM PDT, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

    . . .

    Regardless, however, the idea that bike lanes would be constitutionally >>>> protected in America would have to be one of the most absurd legal takes >>>> I've ever heard. Bikes weren't even invented until 1817 so there's
    no question the Founders didn't intend for "freedom of biking" when
    they wrote the Constitution. And regulation of traffic of any kind is
    squarely in the jurisdiction of the state and local governments per the >>>> 10th Amendment. Which is why I started hyperventilating when I mistakenly >>>> thought Rhino's article was about the U.S. at first.

    The Founding Fathers didn't intend that constitutional language would
    be used to restrict liberty, anticipating changes in technology. Nor was >>> the Constitution written to restrict liberty to enumerated civil rights
    only, hence the Ninth Amendment. Freedom to travel predates the
    Constitution and wouldn't have been a right the Founders would have
    infringed upon.

    Or do you believe 'freedom of the press" was limited to only that mass
    communication produced by printing press and distributed by means that
    hadn't changed since the 18th century, or does it mean any form of
    publishing using any method to fix words and ideas and any means of
    distribution as the technologhy of commucation changes?

    I simply don't believe the Founders intended federal jurisdiction over local >> traffic laws and road design.

    It's inferred in the postal clause.

    That's exactly the kind of judicial fantasy that I despise.

    If the Founders had wanted the federal government to have the power to tell
    the states how to design their roads and local traffic laws, then they would have made that an explicit enumerated power. "Inferring" federal power where there is none is what got us Roe v Wade and Wickard v. Filburn.

    Furthermore, if a letter carrier
    violates restrictions on road use, he isn't subject to citations for nonmoving violations per national supremacy.

    The way it's worked throughout the entire automobile era, predating
    Johnson's Department of Transportaton as a Great Society program and predating Roosevelt's WPA/PWA, is that state highway commissioners,
    acting through AASHTO, would agree upon highway designs, and if these
    designs were thought to benefit from federal standards, the standard
    would be incorporated by regulation of FHWA and predecessor agencies.

    There actually have been major aspects of road design standards with
    federal regulation and it does not violate federalism.

    But there's absolutely an argument that road design can and does violate
    the unenumerated right of freedom to travel.

    The Constitution doesn't address all human liberty, nor was it intended
    to.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to atropos@mac.com on Tue May 6 22:15:03 2025
    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
    May 6, 2025 at 12:41:48 PM PDT, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
    May 6, 2025 at 12:22:41 PM PDT, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

    . . .

    Regardless, however, the idea that bike lanes would be constitutionally >>>>>protected in America would have to be one of the most absurd legal takes >>>>>I've ever heard. Bikes weren't even invented until 1817 so there's
    no question the Founders didn't intend for "freedom of biking" when >>>>>they wrote the Constitution. And regulation of traffic of any kind is >>>>>squarely in the jurisdiction of the state and local governments per the >>>>>10th Amendment. Which is why I started hyperventilating when I mistakenly >>>>>thought Rhino's article was about the U.S. at first.

    The Founding Fathers didn't intend that constitutional language would >>>>be used to restrict liberty, anticipating changes in technology. Nor was >>>>the Constitution written to restrict liberty to enumerated civil rights >>>>only, hence the Ninth Amendment. Freedom to travel predates the >>>>Constitution and wouldn't have been a right the Founders would have >>>>infringed upon.

    Or do you believe 'freedom of the press" was limited to only that mass >>>>communication produced by printing press and distributed by means that >>>>hadn't changed since the 18th century, or does it mean any form of >>>>publishing using any method to fix words and ideas and any means of >>>>distribution as the technologhy of commucation changes?

    I simply don't believe the Founders intended federal jurisdiction over >>>local traffic laws and road design.

    It's inferred in the postal clause.

    That's exactly the kind of judicial fantasy that I despise.

    If the Founders had wanted the federal government to have the power to tell >the states how to design their roads and local traffic laws, then they would >have made that an explicit enumerated power. "Inferring" federal power where >there is none is what got us Roe v Wade and Wickard v. Filburn.

    . . . and the Louisiana Purchase violated strict construction too. You
    think Napoleon will refund the money if we give it back?

    . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BTR1701@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Tue May 6 23:33:28 2025
    On May 6, 2025 at 12:28:41 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    . . .

    We used to be able to park in front of the house overnight if we wanted,
    for example if there was an overnight guest who'd come by car. But the
    city banned overnight parking many years ago.

    Parking infringes upon shared use of the public way, and overnight
    parking usurps the public way for private use. There's no issue with
    short term parking but there's sure as hell an issue with long term
    parking.

    Here's a guy who stuck it to NYC when they tried to tell him he owned the sidewalk and the street for purposes of personal injury liability for pedestrians and cars.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doQBGhwKVR0

    "The property is yours when ownership is inconvenient and expensive for us,
    but it's ours when we want it for parking and sidewalks."

    I don't remember the
    rationale they used but I think they were worried about snow removal
    being more difficult if cars were parked on the street. Then a few years
    back, they put in bike lanes - bike lanes that basically only run down
    our street but don't connect to anything else, making them esentially
    useless for getting around town. Then they put in a cross walk which has
    an island in the middle of the road but which is almost never used. (I
    can see it from my kitchen window.) Because of the island, it is now
    illegal to even STOP on our block so people actually risk a ticket even
    for stopping for a moment to drop someone off. Progress!

    That's ridiculous. The whole point of a road is to access property. Of
    course it's there for pickup and delivery, and to allow people to get
    dropped off or picked up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to atropos@mac.com on Wed May 7 00:39:51 2025
    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

    Here's a guy who stuck it to NYC when they tried to tell him he owned the >sidewalk and the street for purposes of personal injury liability for >pedestrians and cars.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doQBGhwKVR0

    "The property is yours when ownership is inconvenient and expensive for us, >but it's ours when we want it for parking and sidewalks."

    Good point

    Ok. I could have done without the narrator and his ads, but that's
    un-fucking believable. 100s of assistant corporation counsels and they
    forget to obtain an easement? I wonder if there are utilities down
    there. Bet the city is going to have to pay him, plus reimbursement for
    the judgment against him for the woman.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rhino@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 6 20:38:58 2025
    On 2025-05-06 7:33 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
    On May 6, 2025 at 12:28:41 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    . . .

    We used to be able to park in front of the house overnight if we wanted, >>> for example if there was an overnight guest who'd come by car. But the
    city banned overnight parking many years ago.

    Parking infringes upon shared use of the public way, and overnight
    parking usurps the public way for private use. There's no issue with
    short term parking but there's sure as hell an issue with long term
    parking.

    Here's a guy who stuck it to NYC when they tried to tell him he owned the sidewalk and the street for purposes of personal injury liability for pedestrians and cars.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doQBGhwKVR0

    "The property is yours when ownership is inconvenient and expensive for us, but it's ours when we want it for parking and sidewalks."

    The laws about snow removal are another variation on this issue. Our
    bylaw says that snow must be removed from the sidewalk by the property
    owner within 24 hours of the end of the snowfall. The full width of the sidewalk has to be shovelled down to bare pavement or you can get a
    ticket. And not a $5 ticket either! They send a city work crew around to
    do the shovelling.


    [City work crews have been notorious for decades for being massively overstaffed and just as massively underworked. They are famous for
    sending a crew of a dozen people to do absolutely any job. When you
    watch the work actually being done, there is one guy working at any
    given time and the rest stand around and "supervise" until it's their
    turn to work. There is NEVER more than 1 working at a time. (I had a
    summer job 50 years ago where one of the other employees at that job
    told me about being on a city work crew the previous winter where a
    dozen guys would go into the woods to cut down some trees and the first
    thing they'd do is set out a dozen lawn chairs, get a campfire going,
    and then take turns working where 11 guys would be keeping warm around
    the fire while the guy whose turn it was to work would work on cutting
    down a tree. I don't know how long it had already been going on at that
    point but the pattern hasn't changed.]

    Now picture what the bill would be for them sending out a dozen
    unionized guys to do the work of one man. So they have the power to
    force you to clean up THEIR sidewalk but no obligation whatever to
    shovel it themselves.

    I don't remember the
    rationale they used but I think they were worried about snow removal
    being more difficult if cars were parked on the street. Then a few years >>> back, they put in bike lanes - bike lanes that basically only run down
    our street but don't connect to anything else, making them esentially
    useless for getting around town. Then they put in a cross walk which has >>> an island in the middle of the road but which is almost never used. (I
    can see it from my kitchen window.) Because of the island, it is now
    illegal to even STOP on our block so people actually risk a ticket even
    for stopping for a moment to drop someone off. Progress!

    That's ridiculous. The whole point of a road is to access property. Of
    course it's there for pickup and delivery, and to allow people to get
    dropped off or picked up.





    --
    Rhino

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BTR1701@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Wed May 7 02:11:23 2025
    On May 6, 2025 at 5:39:51 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

    Here's a guy who stuck it to NYC when they tried to tell him he owned the
    sidewalk and the street for purposes of personal injury liability for
    pedestrians and cars.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doQBGhwKVR0

    "The property is yours when ownership is inconvenient and expensive for us, >> but it's ours when we want it for parking and sidewalks."

    Good point

    Ok. I could have done without the narrator and his ads, but that's
    un-fucking believable. 100s of assistant corporation counsels and they
    forget to obtain an easement? I wonder if there are utilities down
    there.

    Well, I did see a manhole in the pavement inside his fenced area.

    Bet the city is going to have to pay him, plus reimbursement for
    the judgment against him for the woman.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pluted Pup@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 7 21:17:17 2025
    On Tue, 06 May 2025 16:33:28 -0700, BTR1701 wrote:

    On May 6, 2025 at 12:28:41 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman""<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    Rhino<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    . . .

    We used to be able to park in front of the house overnight if we wanted, for example if there was an overnight guest who'd come by car. But the city banned overnight parking many years ago.

    Parking infringes upon shared use of the public way, and overnight
    parking usurps the public way for private use. There's no issue with
    short term parking but there's sure as hell an issue with long term parking.

    Here's a guy who stuck it to NYC when they tried to tell him he owned the sidewalk and the street for purposes of personal injury liability for pedestrians and cars.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doQBGhwKVR0

    I peeked at that video and comments earlier and it just seems
    like celebrating a scam artist. It does not seem to merit the
    title "Queens Man OUT SMARTS NYC Democrats".

    Often enough I saw "actual justice warrior" post about something
    actually important and then it's just lengthy videos
    about other videos without even allowing ten seconds of what he's
    talking about to be shown or heard.

    Videos of talking heads looking at the camera demanding the
    viewer trust what he is ranting on about are my least favorite
    form of mass communications. Let's get back to reading and writing!


    "The property is yours when ownership is inconvenient and expensive for us, but it's ours when we want it for parking and sidewalks."

    I don't remember the
    rationale they used but I think they were worried about snow removal being more difficult if cars were parked on the street. Then a few years back, they put in bike lanes - bike lanes that basically only run down our street but don't connect to anything else, making them esentially useless for getting around town. Then they put in a cross walk which has an island in the middle of the road but which is almost never used. (I can see it from my kitchen window.) Because of the island, it is now illegal to even STOP on our block so people actually risk a ticket even for stopping for a moment to drop someone off. Progress!

    That's ridiculous. The whole point of a road is to access property. Of course it's there for pickup and delivery, and to allow people to get dropped off or picked up.

    I suggest that if activists want bicycles to be treated as a serious
    method of transportation than start doing it: require all bicycles
    to have side view mirrors like motorcycles have and prosecute bike theft seriously, and not as some sort of harmless practice like even car theft
    is often treated as. But "activists" don't want normal people to
    bike, they want it to have an outlaw image like "activists" have.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Pluted Pup on Thu May 8 18:32:35 2025
    On 2025-05-08 04:17:17 +0000, Pluted Pup said:
    On Tue, 06 May 2025 16:33:28 -0700, BTR1701 wrote:
    On May 6, 2025 at 12:28:41 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman""<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    Rhino<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    . . .

    We used to be able to park in front of the house overnight if we wanted, >>>> for example if there was an overnight guest who'd come by car. But the >>>> city banned overnight parking many years ago.

    Parking infringes upon shared use of the public way, and overnight
    parking usurps the public way for private use. There's no issue with
    short term parking but there's sure as hell an issue with long term
    parking.

    Here's a guy who stuck it to NYC when they tried to tell him he owned the
    sidewalk and the street for purposes of personal injury liability for
    pedestrians and cars.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doQBGhwKVR0

    I peeked at that video and comments earlier and it just seems
    like celebrating a scam artist. It does not seem to merit the
    title "Queens Man OUT SMARTS NYC Democrats".

    Often enough I saw "actual justice warrior" post about something
    actually important and then it's just lengthy videos
    about other videos without even allowing ten seconds of what he's
    talking about to be shown or heard.

    Videos of talking heads looking at the camera demanding the
    viewer trust what he is ranting on about are my least favorite
    form of mass communications. Let's get back to reading and writing!


    "The property is yours when ownership is inconvenient and expensive for us, >> but it's ours when we want it for parking and sidewalks."

    I don't remember the
    rationale they used but I think they were worried about snow removal
    being more difficult if cars were parked on the street. Then a few years >>>> back, they put in bike lanes - bike lanes that basically only run down >>>> our street but don't connect to anything else, making them esentially
    useless for getting around town. Then they put in a cross walk which has >>>> an island in the middle of the road but which is almost never used. (I >>>> can see it from my kitchen window.) Because of the island, it is now
    illegal to even STOP on our block so people actually risk a ticket even >>>> for stopping for a moment to drop someone off. Progress!

    That's ridiculous. The whole point of a road is to access property. Of
    course it's there for pickup and delivery, and to allow people to get
    dropped off or picked up.

    I suggest that if activists want bicycles to be treated as a serious
    method of transportation than start doing it: require all bicycles
    to have side view mirrors like motorcycles have and prosecute bike theft seriously, and not as some sort of harmless practice like even car theft
    is often treated as. But "activists" don't want normal people to
    bike, they want it to have an outlaw image like "activists" have.

    The morons in charge here in New Zealand decided a pedestrain crossing
    was needed on the main road near us. Instead of simple painted stripes,
    they made an over-complicated mess costing many hundreds of thousands
    of dollars ... for ONE pedestrian crossing:

    - For no apparent reason, they moved the bus stop
    on one side of the road further down.
    - They installed a raised area in the road creating
    a bump, which means traffic has to slow down to go over it.
    - They widened the footpath at side of the crossing.
    - They installed a pedestrian crossing lane with traffic lights
    and a push button for the pedestrains to stop the traffic,
    and lowered the curb (for people in wheelchairs, people with
    babies in strollers, etc.).
    - They also installed a separate "cycle crossing" lane with
    its own push button and its own lowered curb ...
    - They then installed a sign which reads "Cyclists Dismount",
    which means cyclists then become pedestrians, so why is
    there a separate crossing lane and push button!?!
    (I've yet to see any cyclist or scooter rider actually dismount.)

    And, after all that, you'd be lucky if a dozen people actually use it
    each day! The road itself is only busy at the peak morning and
    afternoon times - the rest of the day it is very easy to cross anyway.

    There are other similarly hideously expensive and over-complicated
    pedestrian crossing installed around the city.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pluted Pup@21:1/5 to Your Name on Mon May 12 13:30:57 2025
    On 5/7/25 11:32 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2025-05-08 04:17:17 +0000, Pluted Pup said:
    On Tue, 06 May 2025 16:33:28 -0700, BTR1701 wrote:
    On May 6, 2025 at 12:28:41 PM PDT, ""Adam H.
    Kerman""<ahk@chinet.com>  wrote:
    Rhino<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    . . .

    We used to be able to park in front of the house overnight if we
    wanted,
    for example if there was an overnight guest who'd come by car. But the >>>>> city banned overnight parking many years ago.

    Parking infringes upon shared use of the public way, and overnight
    parking usurps the public way for private use. There's no issue with
    short term parking but there's sure as hell an issue with long term
    parking.

    Here's a guy who stuck it to NYC when they tried to tell him he owned
    the
    sidewalk and the street for purposes of personal injury liability for
    pedestrians and cars.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doQBGhwKVR0

    I peeked at that video and comments earlier and it just seems
    like celebrating a scam artist. It does not seem to merit the
    title "Queens Man OUT SMARTS NYC Democrats".

    Often enough I saw "actual justice warrior" post about something
    actually important and then it's just lengthy videos
    about other videos without even allowing ten seconds of what he's
    talking about to be shown or heard.

    Videos of talking heads looking at the camera demanding the
    viewer trust what he is ranting on about are my least favorite
    form of mass communications. Let's get back to reading and writing!


    "The property is yours when ownership is inconvenient and expensive
    for us,
    but it's ours when we want it for parking and sidewalks."

    I don't remember the
    rationale they used but I think they were worried about snow removal >>>>> being more difficult if cars were parked on the street. Then a few
    years
    back, they put in bike lanes - bike lanes that basically only run down >>>>> our street but don't connect to anything else, making them esentially >>>>> useless for getting around town. Then they put in a cross walk
    which has
    an island in the middle of the road but which is almost never used. (I >>>>> can see it from my kitchen window.) Because of the island, it is now >>>>> illegal to even STOP on our block so people actually risk a ticket
    even
    for stopping for a moment to drop someone off. Progress!

    That's ridiculous. The whole point of a road is to access property. Of >>>> course it's there for pickup and delivery, and to allow people to get
    dropped off or picked up.

    I suggest that if activists want bicycles to be treated as a serious
    method of transportation than start doing it: require all bicycles
    to have side view mirrors like motorcycles have and prosecute bike theft
    seriously, and not as some sort of harmless practice like even car theft
    is often treated as. But "activists" don't want normal people to
    bike, they want it to have an outlaw image like "activists" have.

    The morons in charge here in New Zealand decided a pedestrain crossing
    was needed on the main road near us. Instead of simple painted stripes,
    they made an over-complicated mess costing many hundreds of thousands of dollars ... for ONE pedestrian crossing:

     - For no apparent reason, they moved the bus stop
       on one side of the road further down.
     - They installed a raised area in the road creating
       a bump, which means traffic has to slow down to go over it.
     - They widened the footpath at side of the crossing.
     - They installed a pedestrian crossing lane with traffic lights
       and a push button for the pedestrains to stop the traffic,
       and lowered the curb (for people in wheelchairs, people with
       babies in strollers, etc.).
     - They also installed a separate "cycle crossing" lane with
       its own push button and its own lowered curb ...
     - They then installed a sign which reads "Cyclists Dismount",
       which means cyclists then become pedestrians, so why is
       there a separate crossing lane and push button!?!
       (I've yet to see any cyclist or scooter rider actually dismount.)

    And, after all that, you'd be lucky if a dozen people actually use it
    each day! The road itself is only busy at the peak morning and afternoon times - the rest of the day it is very easy to cross anyway.

    There are other similarly hideously expensive and over-complicated
    pedestrian crossing installed around the city.


    Goldbrick engineering. Attention seeking behavior. Symbolism
    over substance. That's the type of "bike activism" that I think
    of that's bad. Are bicycles a serious mode of transportation or
    just another political stunt intended to annoy normal people?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Pluted Pup on Tue May 13 11:47:50 2025
    On 2025-05-12 20:30:57 +0000, Pluted Pup said:
    On 5/7/25 11:32 PM, Your Name wrote:
    On 2025-05-08 04:17:17 +0000, Pluted Pup said:
    On Tue, 06 May 2025 16:33:28 -0700, BTR1701 wrote:
    On May 6, 2025 at 12:28:41 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman""<ahk@chinet.com>  wrote:
    Rhino<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    . . .

    We used to be able to park in front of the house overnight if we
    wanted, for example if there was an overnight guest who'd come by car. >>>>>> But the city banned overnight parking many years ago.

    Parking infringes upon shared use of the public way, and overnight
    parking usurps the public way for private use. There's no issue with >>>>> short term parking but there's sure as hell an issue with long term
    parking.

    Here's a guy who stuck it to NYC when they tried to tell him he owned the >>>> sidewalk and the street for purposes of personal injury liability for
    pedestrians and cars.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doQBGhwKVR0

    I peeked at that video and comments earlier and it just seems
    like celebrating a scam artist. It does not seem to merit the
    title "Queens Man OUT SMARTS NYC Democrats".

    Often enough I saw "actual justice warrior" post about something
    actually important and then it's just lengthy videos
    about other videos without even allowing ten seconds of what he's
    talking about to be shown or heard.

    Videos of talking heads looking at the camera demanding the
    viewer trust what he is ranting on about are my least favorite
    form of mass communications. Let's get back to reading and writing!


    "The property is yours when ownership is inconvenient and expensive for us,
    but it's ours when we want it for parking and sidewalks."

    I don't remember the
    rationale they used but I think they were worried about snow removal >>>>>> being more difficult if cars were parked on the street. Then a few years >>>>>> back, they put in bike lanes - bike lanes that basically only run down >>>>>> our street but don't connect to anything else, making them esentially >>>>>> useless for getting around town. Then they put in a cross walk which has >>>>>> an island in the middle of the road but which is almost never used. (I >>>>>> can see it from my kitchen window.) Because of the island, it is now >>>>>> illegal to even STOP on our block so people actually risk a ticket even >>>>>> for stopping for a moment to drop someone off. Progress!

    That's ridiculous. The whole point of a road is to access property. Of >>>>> course it's there for pickup and delivery, and to allow people to get >>>>> dropped off or picked up.

    I suggest that if activists want bicycles to be treated as a serious
    method of transportation than start doing it: require all bicycles
    to have side view mirrors like motorcycles have and prosecute bike theft >>> seriously, and not as some sort of harmless practice like even car theft >>> is often treated as. But "activists" don't want normal people to
    bike, they want it to have an outlaw image like "activists" have.

    The morons in charge here in New Zealand decided a pedestrain crossing
    was needed on the main road near us. Instead of simple painted stripes,
    they made an over-complicated mess costing many hundreds of thousands
    of dollars ... for ONE pedestrian crossing:

     - For no apparent reason, they moved the bus stop
       on one side of the road further down.
     - They installed a raised area in the road creating
       a bump, which means traffic has to slow down to go over it.
     - They widened the footpath at side of the crossing.
     - They installed a pedestrian crossing lane with traffic lights
       and a push button for the pedestrains to stop the traffic,
       and lowered the curb (for people in wheelchairs, people with
       babies in strollers, etc.).
     - They also installed a separate "cycle crossing" lane with
       its own push button and its own lowered curb ...
     - They then installed a sign which reads "Cyclists Dismount",
       which means cyclists then become pedestrians, so why is
       there a separate crossing lane and push button!?!
       (I've yet to see any cyclist or scooter rider actually dismount.)

    And, after all that, you'd be lucky if a dozen people actually use it
    each day! The road itself is only busy at the peak morning and
    afternoon times - the rest of the day it is very easy to cross anyway.

    There are other similarly hideously expensive and over-complicated
    pedestrian crossing installed around the city.

    Goldbrick engineering. Attention seeking behavior. Symbolism
    over substance. That's the type of "bike activism" that I think
    of that's bad. Are bicycles a serious mode of transportation or
    just another political stunt intended to annoy normal people?

    Cycling will never be a serious mode of transport in most places nor
    for most people. Cycling is a bit more efficient than walking, but
    cycling is still a highly inefficient and uncomfortable form of
    transport compared to a car.

    The local city council has wasted billions of dollars putting cycling
    lanes all over the place, and it is extremely rare to see anyone
    actually using them (even most of the few cyclists you do see often
    ride on the footpath, depsite it not being legal). The cycling brigade
    keep campaigning for putting a cycling and walking lane over the
    Harbour Bridge, but after the initial "wow" factor, it will again
    barely ever be used by anyone - it's simply too steep and too long,
    plus (unlike say London or Sydney) there is absolutely nothing on
    either side of the bridge because it is part of the motorway system, so
    that means an even longer cycle / walk to get anywhere useful.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 18 12:20:11 2025
    On Tue, 13 May 2025 11:47:50 +1200, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:

    The local city council has wasted billions of dollars putting cycling
    lanes all over the place, and it is extremely rare to see anyone
    actually using them (even most of the few cyclists you do see often
    ride on the footpath, depsite it not being legal). The cycling brigade
    keep campaigning for putting a cycling and walking lane over the
    Harbour Bridge, but after the initial "wow" factor, it will again
    barely ever be used by anyone - it's simply too steep and too long,
    plus (unlike say London or Sydney) there is absolutely nothing on
    either side of the bridge because it is part of the motorway system, so
    that means an even longer cycle / walk to get anywhere useful.

    Sounds familiar though around here the ONLY major changes to our main
    bridge in the last 30 years are 10' high anti-suicide fences on the
    bridge.

    Despite the fact that in the 60 years since the building of the bridge
    the population has increased 15 fold and the Greater Vancouver board
    (e.g. composed of 15-20 municipalities) both personal vehicle and
    trucks have mushroomed, no new lanes of traffic to our suburb have
    been built since then. (Never mind that no new rail or truck lanes
    have been built leading to our port which moves more tonnage than the
    Port of Toronto and that's just our burb - as opposed to the entire
    port of Vancouver which is #1 in the country for tonnage and is more
    than #2,3,4,5,6 combined. Nevertheless since the others are in eastern
    Canada they get nearly all the federal $$$ for port improvements)

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