| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 43 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 108:37:39 |
| Calls: | 290 |
| Files: | 905 |
| Messages: | 76,683 |
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health
insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no
one
was safe from crime.
Instead, I expect more than that: specifically, since when the
government > brought in the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) which allowed private
health insurers a role, so that they wouldn't go out of business as the result of it, it certainly wasn't expecting them not to conscientiously provide the service it was their role to provide...
The fact that _one_ health insurer took measures to avoid paying on
valid
health insurance claims should result in the immediate repeal of the Affordable Care Act, with its replacement by a single-payer national
health
care system.
That would send a very clear lesson to any other private businesses that might in future offered the opportunity to offer services to the public
in partnership with the government. No fooling around that would make
the
government look bad will be tolerated for one moment.
John Savard
On 12/10/24 13:04, quadibloc wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health
insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no
one was safe from crime.
Actually it was a targeted assasination.
The killer had suffered a back injury and ended up
with lots of titanium screws holding his spine together.
I do not know exactly the beef he had but the
business of Health Insurance did not help the excutive's case with Luigi Mangione.
[Snippage]
Instead, I expect more than that: specifically, since when the
government > brought in the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) which
allowed private health insurers a role, so that they wouldn't go out of
business as the result of it, it certainly wasn't expecting them not to
conscientiously provide the service it was their role to provide...
The fact that _one_ health insurer took measures to avoid paying on
valid health insurance claims should result in the immediate repeal of
the Affordable Care Act, with its replacement by a single-payer
national health care system.
That would send a very clear lesson to any other private businesses
that might in future offered the opportunity to offer services to the
public in partnership with the government. No fooling around that would
make the government look bad will be tolerated for one moment.
John Savard
It may not seem pernitent but at the URL below is an
arguement in favor of AI Art in a long speculative fiction comic.
What is AI Art
<https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/12/10/2291253/-What-is-AI-Art>
The solution which is unlikely to happen with the incoming admiistration
is Basic Assured Income and Universal Healthcare.
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:12:46 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/10/24 13:04, quadibloc wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health
insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no
one was safe from crime.
Actually it was a targeted assasination.
The killer had suffered a back injury and ended up
with lots of titanium screws holding his spine together.
I do not know exactly the beef he had but the
business of Health Insurance did not help the excutive's case with Luigi
Mangione.
[Snippage]
Instead, I expect more than that: specifically, since when the
government > brought in the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) which
allowed private health insurers a role, so that they wouldn't go out of
business as the result of it, it certainly wasn't expecting them not to
conscientiously provide the service it was their role to provide...
The fact that _one_ health insurer took measures to avoid paying on
valid health insurance claims should result in the immediate repeal of
the Affordable Care Act, with its replacement by a single-payer
national health care system.
That would send a very clear lesson to any other private businesses
that might in future offered the opportunity to offer services to the
public in partnership with the government. No fooling around that would
make the government look bad will be tolerated for one moment.
John Savard
It may not seem pernitent but at the URL below is an
arguement in favor of AI Art in a long speculative fiction comic.
What is AI Art
<https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/12/10/2291253/-What-is-AI-Art>
The solution which is unlikely to happen with the incoming admiistration
is Basic Assured Income and Universal Healthcare.
When that story hit the news I looked forward to the naming of
the suspect. Ah, the allegorical aspects. A very English name
murdered by a very Italian one. Hasn't there been some kind of
beef for a while between the two most ancient institutions of
Western civilization?
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health
insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no
one
was safe from crime.
Then I came across the following information on a web site: that the
health care insurer of which he was the CEO had used an AI system to
process claims; this system rejected 90% of all claims, including many
valid ones.
Maybe this site is a leftist one, and this claim is not true, I don't
know for sure. But if it is true, my sympathy for this homicide victim >basically evaporated. After all, if someone's health insurer doesn't
pay out on valid claims... that person might not get health care. That
kills people. But the legal system wasn't in the process of prosecuting
him as aggressively as any other murderer.
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 15:56:54 +0000, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Like Ghandi I believe that Western Civilization would
be a good idea but I fail to see where it has arrived.
Not long after Gandhi's quip, though, came the partition of India in
1947.
Say what you will about the industrialized nations of the West, but they
have
outbreaks of what India calls "communal violence" rather less often than India. And today India is governed by the BJP and its leader Narendra
Modi,
who openly favors Hindu supremacy.
However, since the U.S. has elected Trump, and Canada appears to be on
the
verge of electing Pierre Polievre (who tries to come across as a normal Conservative politician, but by supporting the "Freedom Convoy" he
revealed
himself to represent the same madness as Trump) perhaps I should not be
quite
so sanguine about the West.
(The Freedom Convoy was a protest that blocked off a significant area of Ottawa,
interfering with the ability of several businesses to operate, demanding
the
resignation of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, which was a protest
against
the basic public health measures Canada took in response to the COVID-19 pandemic.)
Apparently the world is going mad, and will soon fall into a global
tyranny, in
which the world's three nuclear superpowers, Russia, mainland China, and
the
U.S. will all get along just fine, dividing the world between them as
three
like-minded dictatorships. I dread this prospect. Not that I feel it is certain - but even a detectable probability of such a calamity is
intolerable
to me, so I'm not satisfied with the hope that the entire GOP will stop
short
of supporting Trump when it comes to the point of him leading America
into the abyss.
John Savard
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 15:56:54 +0000, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Like Ghandi I believe that Western Civilization would
be a good idea but I fail to see where it has arrived.
Not long after Gandhi's quip, though, came the partition of India in
1947.
Say what you will about the industrialized nations of the West, but they
have
outbreaks of what India calls "communal violence" rather less often than India. And today India is governed by the BJP and its leader Narendra
Modi,
who openly favors Hindu supremacy.
However, since the U.S. has elected Trump, and Canada appears to be on
the
verge of electing Pierre Polievre (who tries to come across as a normal Conservative politician, but by supporting the "Freedom Convoy" he
revealed
himself to represent the same madness as Trump) perhaps I should not be
quite
so sanguine about the West.
(The Freedom Convoy was a protest that blocked off a significant area of Ottawa,
interfering with the ability of several businesses to operate, demanding
the
resignation of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, which was a protest
against
the basic public health measures Canada took in response to the COVID-19 pandemic.)
Apparently the world is going mad, and will soon fall into a global
tyranny, in
which the world's three nuclear superpowers, Russia, mainland China, and
the
U.S. will all get along just fine, dividing the world between them as
three
like-minded dictatorships. I dread this prospect. Not that I feel it is certain - but even a detectable probability of such a calamity is
intolerable
to me, so I'm not satisfied with the hope that the entire GOP will stop
short
of supporting Trump when it comes to the point of him leading America
into the
abyss.
John Savard
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 21:04:42 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com>
wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health
insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no
one
was safe from crime.
Then I came across the following information on a web site: that the
health care insurer of which he was the CEO had used an AI system to
process claims; this system rejected 90% of all claims, including many
valid ones.
Maybe this site is a leftist one, and this claim is not true, I don't
know for sure. But if it is true, my sympathy for this homicide victim
basically evaporated. After all, if someone's health insurer doesn't
pay out on valid claims... that person might not get health care. That
kills people. But the legal system wasn't in the process of prosecuting
him as aggressively as any other murderer.
I saw the claim; I have no idea how true it is.
You must keep in mind that the USA does not have a "medical system".
It has a Medical Industry composed of various competing business
enterprises.
And the purpose of a business enterprise is to /make money/, not to
/pay claims/.
And Donald Trump is the Poster Child for Rich White Male Special
Treatment by the Judicial System.
On 12/11/2024 12:26 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 21:04:42 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com>
wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health
insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no
one
was safe from crime.
Then I came across the following information on a web site: that the
health care insurer of which he was the CEO had used an AI system to
process claims; this system rejected 90% of all claims, including many
valid ones.
Maybe this site is a leftist one, and this claim is not true, I don't
know for sure. But if it is true, my sympathy for this homicide victim
basically evaporated. After all, if someone's health insurer doesn't
pay out on valid claims... that person might not get health care. That
kills people. But the legal system wasn't in the process of prosecuting
him as aggressively as any other murderer.
I saw the claim; I have no idea how true it is.
You must keep in mind that the USA does not have a "medical system".
It has a Medical Industry composed of various competing business
enterprises.
And the purpose of a business enterprise is to /make money/, not to
/pay claims/.
This 'corporatism' is something I'm less and less in love with every
year.
No matter what their PR may tell you, the fiduciary duty of
the officers in every public corporations is the same: "Maximize
shareholder return on investment". NOT "Serve our customers". If
they fail to do so at every opportunity, they can be sued.
Particularly when their customers are individuals, there is an
enormous disparity in agency and power, and corporations will
use their power to ride roughshod over people, and every year
it looks like they have fewer ethics and less of a conscience.
I'd love to find a solution which rebalanced this.
pt
No matter what their PR may tell you, the fiduciary duty of
the officers in every public corporations is the same: "Maximize
shareholder return on investment". NOT "Serve our customers". If
they fail to do so at every opportunity, they can be sued.
Particularly when their customers are individuals, there is an
enormous disparity in agency and power, and corporations will
use their power to ride roughshod over people, and every year
it looks like they have fewer ethics and less of a conscience.
I'd love to find a solution which rebalanced this.
On 12/11/24 00:53, Charles Packer wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:12:46 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Now from what I hear Luigi had a beef because of a
On 12/10/24 13:04, quadibloc wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health
insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no
one was safe from crime.
Actually it was a targeted assasination.
The killer had suffered a back injury and ended up
with lots of titanium screws holding his spine together.
I do not know exactly the beef he had but the
business of Health Insurance did not help the excutive's case with
Luigi Mangione.
The solution which is unlikely to happen with the incoming
admiistration is Basic Assured Income and Universal Healthcare.
When that story hit the news I looked forward to the naming of the
suspect. Ah, the allegorical aspects. A very English name murdered by a
very Italian one. Hasn't there been some kind of beef for a while
between the two most ancient institutions of Western civilization?
painful pre-existing back condition not because of the old opposition
between Northern and Southern Europe.
On 12/11/2024 4:06 PM, D wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024, quadibloc wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 15:56:54 +0000, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Like Ghandi I believe that Western Civilization would
be a good idea but I fail to see where it has arrived.
Not long after Gandhi's quip, though, came the partition of India in
1947.
Say what you will about the industrialized nations of the West, but they >>> have
outbreaks of what India calls "communal violence" rather less often than >>> India. And today India is governed by the BJP and its leader Narendra
Modi,
who openly favors Hindu supremacy.
However, since the U.S. has elected Trump, and Canada appears to be on
the
verge of electing Pierre Polievre (who tries to come across as a normal
Conservative politician, but by supporting the "Freedom Convoy" he
revealed
himself to represent the same madness as Trump) perhaps I should not be
quite
so sanguine about the West.
(The Freedom Convoy was a protest that blocked off a significant area of >>> Ottawa,
interfering with the ability of several businesses to operate, demanding >>> the
resignation of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, which was a protest
against
the basic public health measures Canada took in response to the COVID-19 >>> pandemic.)
Apparently the world is going mad, and will soon fall into a global
tyranny, in
which the world's three nuclear superpowers, Russia, mainland China, and >>> the
U.S. will all get along just fine, dividing the world between them as
three
like-minded dictatorships. I dread this prospect. Not that I feel it is
certain - but even a detectable probability of such a calamity is
intolerable
to me, so I'm not satisfied with the hope that the entire GOP will stop
short
of supporting Trump when it comes to the point of him leading America
into the
abyss.
John Savard
I think Trump is a great leader, and will bring the US to a new golden age! >> I know that many tears have been shed by the democrats in this group, and
they do bring me great joy, but you will see that in the end, our immortal >> leader will make life better for everyone. You just wait and see! =)
"Immortal Leader"? where do you learn your factions rhetoric? Pyongyang?
You sound like a cultist.
pt
On 12/11/2024 8:39 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/11/24 16:22, Cryptoengineer wrote:
No matter what their PR may tell you, the fiduciary duty of
the officers in every public corporations is the same: "Maximize
shareholder return on investment". NOT "Serve our customers". If
they fail to do so at every opportunity, they can be sued.
Particularly when their customers are individuals, there is an
enormous disparity in agency and power, and corporations will
use their power to ride roughshod over people, and every year
it looks like they have fewer ethics and less of a conscience.
I'd love to find a solution which rebalanced this.
pt
It is called Universal Single Payer Health Care and
civilized nations all have it. Here the parties invested
in the current barbaric system have resisted all attempts
to put it in place effectively despite the great results
seen in the Military services. The closest we have gotten
is the ACA, Medicare and Medic-Aide(known in California as
Medi-Cal).
Becasue of the cost of going to local ERs I failed
to do that in a timely fashion when I broke my ankle, hence
I suffer months later after what I thought was a twisted
ankle. Will the broken ankle heal properly? I will address
that matter in the future if it eventuates.
This is a problem that extends far beyond just healthcare.
On 12/11/2024 4:06 PM, D wrote:
"Immortal Leader"? where do you learn your factions rhetoric? Pyongyang?
You sound like a cultist.
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
On 12/11/2024 4:06 PM, D wrote:
"Immortal Leader"? where do you learn your factions rhetoric? Pyongyang?
You sound like a cultist.
:s/cultist/troll/g
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
On 12/11/2024 4:06 PM, D wrote:
"Immortal Leader"? where do you learn your factions rhetoric? Pyongyang?
You sound like a cultist.
:s/cultist/troll/g
On 12/11/24 09:39, quadibloc wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 15:56:54 +0000, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
ááááLike Ghandi I believe that Western Civilization would
be a good idea but I fail to see where it has arrived.
Not long after Gandhi's quip, though, came the partition of India in
1947.
Say what you will about the industrialized nations of the West, but they
have
outbreaks of what India calls "communal violence" rather less often than
India. And today India is governed by the BJP and its leader Narendra
Modi,
who openly favors Hindu supremacy.
We in the USA, have outbreaks of individual violence, attacks on
schools, churches, synagogues and temples.
In 2020 on January 6 we had communal violence.
Before that we had frequent communal violence directed
toward African-Americans and referred to as Lynching
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 15:56:54 +0000, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Like Ghandi I believe that Western Civilization would
be a good idea but I fail to see where it has arrived.
Not long after Gandhi's quip, though, came the partition of India in
1947.
Say what you will about the industrialized nations of the West, but they
have
outbreaks of what India calls "communal violence" rather less often than >India. And today India is governed by the BJP and its leader Narendra
Modi,
who openly favors Hindu supremacy.
However, since the U.S. has elected Trump, and Canada appears to be on
the
verge of electing Pierre Polievre (who tries to come across as a normal >Conservative politician, but by supporting the "Freedom Convoy" he
revealed
himself to represent the same madness as Trump) perhaps I should not be
quite
so sanguine about the West.
(The Freedom Convoy was a protest that blocked off a significant area of >Ottawa,
interfering with the ability of several businesses to operate, demanding
the
resignation of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, which was a protest
against
the basic public health measures Canada took in response to the COVID-19 >pandemic.)
Apparently the world is going mad, and will soon fall into a global
tyranny, in
which the world's three nuclear superpowers, Russia, mainland China, and
the
U.S. will all get along just fine, dividing the world between them as
three
like-minded dictatorships. I dread this prospect. Not that I feel it is >certain - but even a detectable probability of such a calamity is
intolerable
to me, so I'm not satisfied with the hope that the entire GOP will stop
short
of supporting Trump when it comes to the point of him leading America
into the
abyss.
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote:
"Immortal Leader"? where do you learn your factions rhetoric? Pyongyang?
Do you have proof he is not?
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 07:56:54 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/11/24 00:53, Charles Packer wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:12:46 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Now from what I hear Luigi had a beef because of a
On 12/10/24 13:04, quadibloc wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health >>>>> insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no >>>>> one was safe from crime.
Actually it was a targeted assasination.
The killer had suffered a back injury and ended up
with lots of titanium screws holding his spine together.
I do not know exactly the beef he had but the
business of Health Insurance did not help the excutive's case with
Luigi Mangione.
The solution which is unlikely to happen with the incoming
admiistration is Basic Assured Income and Universal Healthcare.
When that story hit the news I looked forward to the naming of the
suspect. Ah, the allegorical aspects. A very English name murdered by a
very Italian one. Hasn't there been some kind of beef for a while
between the two most ancient institutions of Western civilization?
painful pre-existing back condition not because of the old opposition
between Northern and Southern Europe.
At least some journalists have gone down an allegorical path
with this story, using the lives of the protagonists
rather than vicissitudes of health care. From the front page of
the Washington Post: "As Mangione's once-charmed life
seemed to be crumbling, Brian Thompson's fortunes appeared to
be climbing."
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 21:04:42 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com>
wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health
insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no
one
was safe from crime.
Then I came across the following information on a web site: that the
health care insurer of which he was the CEO had used an AI system to
process claims; this system rejected 90% of all claims, including many
valid ones.
Maybe this site is a leftist one, and this claim is not true, I don't
know for sure. But if it is true, my sympathy for this homicide victim
basically evaporated. After all, if someone's health insurer doesn't
pay out on valid claims... that person might not get health care. That
kills people. But the legal system wasn't in the process of prosecuting
him as aggressively as any other murderer.
I saw the claim; I have no idea how true it is.
You must keep in mind that the USA does not have a "medical system".
It has a Medical Industry composed of various competing business
enterprises.
And the purpose of a business enterprise is to /make money/, not to
/pay claims/.
And Donald Trump is the Poster Child for Rich White Male Special
Treatment by the Judicial System.
"Orange man bad" syndrome. The US has the worst parts of private health
care coupled with the worst parts of public health care. It is a very good >example of taking the worst parts of both and combining them into an
unholy mix.
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 08:58:15 -0000 (UTC), Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 07:56:54 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/11/24 00:53, Charles Packer wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:12:46 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Now from what I hear Luigi had a beef because of a
On 12/10/24 13:04, quadibloc wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health >>>>>> insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no >>>>>> one was safe from crime.
Actually it was a targeted assasination.
The killer had suffered a back injury and ended up
with lots of titanium screws holding his spine together.
I do not know exactly the beef he had but the
business of Health Insurance did not help the excutive's case with
Luigi Mangione.
The solution which is unlikely to happen with the incoming
admiistration is Basic Assured Income and Universal Healthcare.
When that story hit the news I looked forward to the naming of the
suspect. Ah, the allegorical aspects. A very English name murdered by a >>>> very Italian one. Hasn't there been some kind of beef for a while
between the two most ancient institutions of Western civilization?
painful pre-existing back condition not because of the old opposition
between Northern and Southern Europe.
At least some journalists have gone down an allegorical path
with this story, using the lives of the protagonists
rather than vicissitudes of health care. From the front page of
the Washington Post: "As Mangione's once-charmed life
seemed to be crumbling, Brian Thompson's fortunes appeared to
be climbing."
Unacceptable as it was, at least this appears to be an ordinary crime,
not an ideological one. For now, anyway.
On 12/11/2024 12:26 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 21:04:42 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com>
wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health
insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no
one
was safe from crime.
Then I came across the following information on a web site: that the
health care insurer of which he was the CEO had used an AI system to
process claims; this system rejected 90% of all claims, including many
valid ones.
Maybe this site is a leftist one, and this claim is not true, I don't
know for sure. But if it is true, my sympathy for this homicide victim
basically evaporated. After all, if someone's health insurer doesn't
pay out on valid claims... that person might not get health care. That
kills people. But the legal system wasn't in the process of prosecuting
him as aggressively as any other murderer.
I saw the claim; I have no idea how true it is.
You must keep in mind that the USA does not have a "medical system".
It has a Medical Industry composed of various competing business
enterprises.
And the purpose of a business enterprise is to /make money/, not to
/pay claims/.
This 'corporatism' is something I'm less and less in love with every
year.
No matter what their PR may tell you, the fiduciary duty of
the officers in every public corporations is the same: "Maximize
shareholder return on investment". NOT "Serve our customers". If
they fail to do so at every opportunity, they can be sued.
Particularly when their customers are individuals, there is an
enormous disparity in agency and power, and corporations will
use their power to ride roughshod over people, and every year
it looks like they have fewer ethics and less of a conscience.
I'd love to find a solution which rebalanced this.
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 13:33:19 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
On 12/11/2024 4:06 PM, D wrote:
"Immortal Leader"? where do you learn your factions rhetoric? Pyongyang? >>>
You sound like a cultist.
:s/cultist/troll/g
How can you tell if a troll is a cultist? That could be part of the
"fun" of trolldom.
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 10:06:27 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote:
<snippo>
"Immortal Leader"? where do you learn your factions rhetoric? Pyongyang?
Do you have proof he is not?
Not a Leader? All we have to do is look at his first term and that
becomes quite clear. He couldn't lead his way out of wet paper bag
assisted by a squad of Marines.
Not Immortal? If you want to believe he is the embodiment of Satan or whatever, feel free, but, given his age and likely populartiy as his
Cabinet crashes and burns and his Tariffs boost inflation, it seems
quite possible that he will achieve his dream of being President for
Life -- just as Kennedy and FD Roosevelt were.
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 22:04:55 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 21:04:42 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com>
wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health
insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no
one
was safe from crime.
Then I came across the following information on a web site: that the
health care insurer of which he was the CEO had used an AI system to
process claims; this system rejected 90% of all claims, including many >>>> valid ones.
Maybe this site is a leftist one, and this claim is not true, I don't
know for sure. But if it is true, my sympathy for this homicide victim >>>> basically evaporated. After all, if someone's health insurer doesn't
pay out on valid claims... that person might not get health care. That >>>> kills people. But the legal system wasn't in the process of prosecuting >>>> him as aggressively as any other murderer.
I saw the claim; I have no idea how true it is.
You must keep in mind that the USA does not have a "medical system".
It has a Medical Industry composed of various competing business
enterprises.
And the purpose of a business enterprise is to /make money/, not to
/pay claims/.
And Donald Trump is the Poster Child for Rich White Male Special
Treatment by the Judicial System.
"Orange man bad" syndrome. The US has the worst parts of private health
care coupled with the worst parts of public health care. It is a very good >> example of taking the worst parts of both and combining them into an
unholy mix.
I said nothing about "orange man". I just stated the obvious
conclusion of his recent court cases.
I think Trump is a great leader, and will bring the US to a new golden
age! I know that many tears have been shed by the democrats in this
group, and they do bring me great joy, but you will see that in the end,
our immortal leader will make life better for everyone. You just wait
and see! =)
"Immortal Leader"? where do you learn your factions rhetoric? Pyongyang?
You sound like a cultist.
Paul S Person wrote:
rOn Wed, 11 Dec 2024 17:39:11 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com>t.
wrote:
Adding each Province as a State and expanding Canadian political
parties southwards might be helpful. Or not. Not that I would
recommend it.
But making all of Canada a /single/ State is ludicrous.
There are only two responses to this kind of crap, which I heard all too often in my time in the US. The first is obscene, but the second is:
"No, fifty two states". We demand control of the senate, even if you
make PR a state.
Then people try to explain to me how ludicrous that would be, and I smile.
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 08:58:15 -0000 (UTC), Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 07:56:54 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/11/24 00:53, Charles Packer wrote:At least some journalists have gone down an allegorical path with this >>story, using the lives of the protagonists rather than vicissitudes of >>health care. From the front page of the Washington Post: "As Mangione's >>once-charmed life seemed to be crumbling, Brian Thompson's fortunes >>appeared to be climbing."
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:12:46 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Now from what I hear Luigi had a beef because of a
When that story hit the news I looked forward to the naming of the
suspect. Ah, the allegorical aspects. A very English name murdered by
a very Italian one. Hasn't there been some kind of beef for a while
between the two most ancient institutions of Western civilization?
painful pre-existing back condition not because of the old opposition
between Northern and Southern Europe.
Unacceptable as it was, at least this appears to be an ordinary crime,
not an ideological one. For now, anyway.
On 12/12/2024 3:36 PM, D wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 10:06:27 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote:
<snippo>
"Immortal Leader"? where do you learn your factions rhetoric? Pyongyang? >>>>Do you have proof he is not?
Not a Leader? All we have to do is look at his first term and that
becomes quite clear. He couldn't lead his way out of wet paper bag
assisted by a squad of Marines.
No I said immortal leader. Please do not disconnect the terms. As for
leadership, not only is he king, he has god on his side!
Not Immortal? If you want to believe he is the embodiment of Satan or
whatever, feel free, but, given his age and likely populartiy as his
Cabinet crashes and burns and his Tariffs boost inflation, it seems
quite possible that he will achieve his dream of being President for
Life -- just as Kennedy and FD Roosevelt were.
Not so. He has god on his side. You will learn to love him in time Paul. He >> is your new spiritual father now, and the spiritual father of all
americans. =)
This is Jim Jones level cult behavior.
On 12/12/2024 3:36 PM, D wrote:
Not so. He has god on his side. You will learn to love him in time Paul.
He is your new spiritual father now, and the spiritual father of all
americans. =)
This is Jim Jones level cult behavior.
On 12/12/24 08:43, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 08:58:15 -0000 (UTC), Charles Packer
<mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 07:56:54 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/11/24 00:53, Charles Packer wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:12:46 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Now from what I hear Luigi had a beef because of a
On 12/10/24 13:04, quadibloc wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health >>>>>>> insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no >>>>>>> one was safe from crime.
Actually it was a targeted assasination.
The killer had suffered a back injury and ended up
with lots of titanium screws holding his spine together.
I do not know exactly the beef he had but the
business of Health Insurance did not help the excutive's case with >>>>>> Luigi Mangione.
The solution which is unlikely to happen with the incoming
admiistration is Basic Assured Income and Universal Healthcare.
When that story hit the news I looked forward to the naming of the
suspect. Ah, the allegorical aspects. A very English name murdered by a >>>>> very Italian one. Hasn't there been some kind of beef for a while
between the two most ancient institutions of Western civilization?
painful pre-existing back condition not because of the old opposition
between Northern and Southern Europe.
At least some journalists have gone down an allegorical path
with this story, using the lives of the protagonists
rather than vicissitudes of health care. From the front page of
the Washington Post: "As Mangione's once-charmed life
seemed to be crumbling, Brian Thompson's fortunes appeared to
be climbing."
Unacceptable as it was, at least this appears to be an ordinary crime,
not an ideological one. For now, anyway.
To me it looks like the result of policies enforced by CEOs
of Insurance compaies of Denying payment for care, delaying approval
of care, and refusing the care for the particular patient. Just to
increase profit.
Here is a comic illustrating this> ><https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/12/12/2291287/-Cartoon-Tom-the-Dancing-Bug-and-the-Manhunt-for-the-Killer-CEO>
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/12/2024 3:36 PM, D wrote:
Not so. He has god on his side. You will learn to love him in time Paul. >>> He is your new spiritual father now, and the spiritual father of all
americans. =)
This is Jim Jones level cult behavior.
While D is clearly trolling here, I have seen Jim Jones level cult
behaviour on the part of a number of Trump followers. I have a neighbor
who claims that we no longer need either the bible nor the constitution >because Trump makes them no longer needed. He has an idea, and it is
an idea that Trump himself may have had earlier in his first term before
he began to understand the job, that somehow Trump will replace all of the >bureaucracy and do all of the work of government himself singlehandedly.
Very strange. I don't get it, and I have lived in plenty of monarchies
and dictatorships.
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 22:04:55 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 21:04:42 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com>
wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health >>>>> insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no >>>>> one
was safe from crime.
Then I came across the following information on a web site: that the >>>>> health care insurer of which he was the CEO had used an AI system to >>>>> process claims; this system rejected 90% of all claims, including many >>>>> valid ones.
Maybe this site is a leftist one, and this claim is not true, I don't >>>>> know for sure. But if it is true, my sympathy for this homicide victim >>>>> basically evaporated. After all, if someone's health insurer doesn't >>>>> pay out on valid claims... that person might not get health care. That >>>>> kills people. But the legal system wasn't in the process of prosecuting >>>>> him as aggressively as any other murderer.
I saw the claim; I have no idea how true it is.
You must keep in mind that the USA does not have a "medical system".
It has a Medical Industry composed of various competing business
enterprises.
And the purpose of a business enterprise is to /make money/, not to
/pay claims/.
And Donald Trump is the Poster Child for Rich White Male Special
Treatment by the Judicial System.
"Orange man bad" syndrome. The US has the worst parts of private health
care coupled with the worst parts of public health care. It is a very good >>> example of taking the worst parts of both and combining them into an
unholy mix.
I said nothing about "orange man". I just stated the obvious
conclusion of his recent court cases.
This is correct. But note that I did not claim you said orange man. I say >that you exhibits symptoms of orange man bad syndrome, or what is also >called Trump derangement syndrome.
On 12/12/2024 11:55 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:22:49 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/11/2024 12:26 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 21:04:42 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com>
wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health >>>>> insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no >>>>> one
was safe from crime.
Then I came across the following information on a web site: that the >>>>> health care insurer of which he was the CEO had used an AI system to >>>>> process claims; this system rejected 90% of all claims, including many >>>>> valid ones.
Maybe this site is a leftist one, and this claim is not true, I don't >>>>> know for sure. But if it is true, my sympathy for this homicide victim >>>>> basically evaporated. After all, if someone's health insurer doesn't >>>>> pay out on valid claims... that person might not get health care. That >>>>> kills people. But the legal system wasn't in the process of prosecuting >>>>> him as aggressively as any other murderer.
I saw the claim; I have no idea how true it is.
You must keep in mind that the USA does not have a "medical system".
It has a Medical Industry composed of various competing business
enterprises.
And the purpose of a business enterprise is to /make money/, not to
/pay claims/.
This 'corporatism' is something I'm less and less in love with every
year.
No matter what their PR may tell you, the fiduciary duty of
the officers in every public corporations is the same: "Maximize
shareholder return on investment". NOT "Serve our customers". If
they fail to do so at every opportunity, they can be sued.
Particularly when their customers are individuals, there is an
enormous disparity in agency and power, and corporations will
use their power to ride roughshod over people, and every year
it looks like they have fewer ethics and less of a conscience.
I'd love to find a solution which rebalanced this.
The Supreme Court provided a solution when they declared them to be
persons like everybody else.
The solution is simple: when a corporation breaks the law, the
Chairman of the Board, the President (or whatever the title is in a
given case), and the first five levels down from the top of Management
are considered to be legally responsible.
/They/ go to prison. /They/ get executed if appropriate. This should
induce a certain amount of ... prudence ... in people in those
positions. And effective supervision of those below them.
If a more accurate assignment of responsibility can be made, then it
should be. But the top dogs should only be held not responsible if the
actual malefactors /deliberately and knowingly concealed/ what they
were doing.
If you want to tell me this isn't practical, my response it: it should
be /tried/. If nothing else, the Supreme Court should be faced with
either allowing it or reversing their prior decision and making
corporations no longer legal persons.
I'd love to see that, but now that corporations are held to be persons,
they can, through 'campaign contributions' bribe legislators to change
the rules in their favor.
We're seeing this happening right now.--
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 19:21:19 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/12/2024 11:55 AM, Paul S Person wrote:health
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:22:49 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
=20
On 12/11/2024 12:26 PM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 21:04:42 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com>
wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major =
noinsurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that =
theone
was safe from crime.
Then I came across the following information on a web site: that =
tohealth care insurer of which he was the CEO had used an AI system =
don'tprocess claims; this system rejected 90% of all claims, including = >many
valid ones.
Maybe this site is a leftist one, and this claim is not true, I =
doesn'tknow for sure. But if it is true, my sympathy for this homicide = >victim
basically evaporated. After all, if someone's health insurer =
=20pay out on valid claims... that person might not get health care. = >That
kills people. But the legal system wasn't in the process of = >prosecuting
him as aggressively as any other murderer.
I saw the claim; I have no idea how true it is.
You must keep in mind that the USA does not have a "medical system". >>>>> It has a Medical Industry composed of various competing business
enterprises.
And the purpose of a business enterprise is to /make money/, not to
/pay claims/.
This 'corporatism' is something I'm less and less in love with every
year.
No matter what their PR may tell you, the fiduciary duty of
the officers in every public corporations is the same: "Maximize
shareholder return on investment". NOT "Serve our customers". If
they fail to do so at every opportunity, they can be sued.
Particularly when their customers are individuals, there is an
enormous disparity in agency and power, and corporations will
use their power to ride roughshod over people, and every year
it looks like they have fewer ethics and less of a conscience.
I'd love to find a solution which rebalanced this.
The Supreme Court provided a solution when they declared them to be
persons like everybody else.
=20
The solution is simple: when a corporation breaks the law, the
Chairman of the Board, the President (or whatever the title is in a
given case), and the first five levels down from the top of Management
are considered to be legally responsible.
=20
/They/ go to prison. /They/ get executed if appropriate. This should
induce a certain amount of ... prudence ... in people in those
positions. And effective supervision of those below them.
=20
If a more accurate assignment of responsibility can be made, then it
should be. But the top dogs should only be held not responsible if the
actual malefactors /deliberately and knowingly concealed/ what they
were doing.
=20
If you want to tell me this isn't practical, my response it: it should
be /tried/. If nothing else, the Supreme Court should be faced with
either allowing it or reversing their prior decision and making
corporations no longer legal persons.
I'd love to see that, but now that corporations are held to be persons, >>they can, through 'campaign contributions' bribe legislators to change
the rules in their favor.
Bribing a public official is a crime in most jurisdictions.
Paul S Person wrote:
rOn Wed, 11 Dec 2024 17:39:11 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com>t.
wrote:
Adding each Province as a State and expanding Canadian political
parties southwards might be helpful. Or not. Not that I would
recommend it.
But making all of Canada a /single/ State is ludicrous.
There are only two responses to this kind of crap, which I heard all too >often in my time in the US. The first is obscene, but the second is:
"No, fifty two states". We demand control of the senate, even if you
make PR a state.
Then people try to explain to me how ludicrous that would be, and I smile.
William Hyde
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 08:53:40 -0800, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
On 12/12/24 08:43, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 08:58:15 -0000 (UTC), Charles Packer
<mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 07:56:54 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/11/24 00:53, Charles Packer wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:12:46 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Now from what I hear Luigi had a beef because of a
On 12/10/24 13:04, quadibloc wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health >>>>>>>> insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no >>>>>>>> one was safe from crime.
Actually it was a targeted assasination.
The killer had suffered a back injury and ended up
with lots of titanium screws holding his spine together.
I do not know exactly the beef he had but the
business of Health Insurance did not help the excutive's case with >>>>>>> Luigi Mangione.
The solution which is unlikely to happen with the incoming
admiistration is Basic Assured Income and Universal Healthcare.
When that story hit the news I looked forward to the naming of the >>>>>> suspect. Ah, the allegorical aspects. A very English name murdered by a >>>>>> very Italian one. Hasn't there been some kind of beef for a while
between the two most ancient institutions of Western civilization? >>>>>>
painful pre-existing back condition not because of the old opposition >>>>> between Northern and Southern Europe.
At least some journalists have gone down an allegorical path
with this story, using the lives of the protagonists
rather than vicissitudes of health care. From the front page of
the Washington Post: "As Mangione's once-charmed life
seemed to be crumbling, Brian Thompson's fortunes appeared to
be climbing."
Unacceptable as it was, at least this appears to be an ordinary crime,
not an ideological one. For now, anyway.
To me it looks like the result of policies enforced by CEOs
of Insurance compaies of Denying payment for care, delaying approval
of care, and refusing the care for the particular patient. Just to
increase profit.
Exactly. A non-ideological crime based on actual wrongdoing. Not in
any way admirable.
Here is a comic illustrating this>
<https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/12/12/2291287/-Cartoon-Tom-the-Dancing-Bug-and-the-Manhunt-for-the-Killer-CEO>
My solution is simpler: the person at the top is /always/ responsible
[1]. Unless he was active in supervising the organization and this was
hidden from him.
[1] This is a common trope, whether by Pres Truman ("The buck stops
here", pointing to his desk or perhaps the Oval Office) to Star Trek
VI, where Kirk agrees that, as Captain, he is responsible for what
happened. So why does the buck /not/ stop at the top dog in these
cases?
On 13 Dec 2024 13:30:36 -0000, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/12/2024 3:36 PM, D wrote:
Not so. He has god on his side. You will learn to love him in time Paul. >>>> He is your new spiritual father now, and the spiritual father of all
americans. =)
This is Jim Jones level cult behavior.
While D is clearly trolling here, I have seen Jim Jones level cult
behaviour on the part of a number of Trump followers. I have a neighbor
who claims that we no longer need either the bible nor the constitution
because Trump makes them no longer needed. He has an idea, and it is
an idea that Trump himself may have had earlier in his first term before
he began to understand the job, that somehow Trump will replace all of the >> bureaucracy and do all of the work of government himself singlehandedly.
Very strange. I don't get it, and I have lived in plenty of monarchies
and dictatorships.
I am still waiting for the First Church of Trump to be founded. It is
... inevitable.
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/12/2024 3:36 PM, D wrote:
Not so. He has god on his side. You will learn to love him in time Paul. >>> He is your new spiritual father now, and the spiritual father of all
americans. =)
This is Jim Jones level cult behavior.
While D is clearly trolling here, I have seen Jim Jones level cult
behaviour on the part of a number of Trump followers. I have a neighbor
who claims that we no longer need either the bible nor the constitution because Trump makes them no longer needed. He has an idea, and it is
an idea that Trump himself may have had earlier in his first term before
he began to understand the job, that somehow Trump will replace all of the bureaucracy and do all of the work of government himself singlehandedly.
Very strange. I don't get it, and I have lived in plenty of monarchies
and dictatorships.
--scott
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 21:37:24 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 22:04:55 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 21:04:42 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com>
wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health >>>>>> insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no >>>>>> one
was safe from crime.
Then I came across the following information on a web site: that the >>>>>> health care insurer of which he was the CEO had used an AI system to >>>>>> process claims; this system rejected 90% of all claims, including many >>>>>> valid ones.
Maybe this site is a leftist one, and this claim is not true, I don't >>>>>> know for sure. But if it is true, my sympathy for this homicide victim >>>>>> basically evaporated. After all, if someone's health insurer doesn't >>>>>> pay out on valid claims... that person might not get health care. That >>>>>> kills people. But the legal system wasn't in the process of prosecuting >>>>>> him as aggressively as any other murderer.
I saw the claim; I have no idea how true it is.
You must keep in mind that the USA does not have a "medical system". >>>>> It has a Medical Industry composed of various competing business
enterprises.
And the purpose of a business enterprise is to /make money/, not to
/pay claims/.
And Donald Trump is the Poster Child for Rich White Male Special
Treatment by the Judicial System.
"Orange man bad" syndrome. The US has the worst parts of private health >>>> care coupled with the worst parts of public health care. It is a very good >>>> example of taking the worst parts of both and combining them into an
unholy mix.
I said nothing about "orange man". I just stated the obvious
conclusion of his recent court cases.
This is correct. But note that I did not claim you said orange man. I say
that you exhibits symptoms of orange man bad syndrome, or what is also
called Trump derangement syndrome.
Only by MAGA. Sane persons regard /MAGA/ as suffering from TDS.
The Horny Goat wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 15:33:40 -0500, William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
rOn Wed, 11 Dec 2024 17:39:11 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com>t.
wrote:
Adding each Province as a State and expanding Canadian political
parties southwards might be helpful. Or not. Not that I would
recommend it.
But making all of Canada a /single/ State is ludicrous.
There are only two responses to this kind of crap, which I heard all too >>> often in my time in the US. The first is obscene, but the second is:
"No, fifty two states". We demand control of the senate, even if you
make PR a state.
Then people try to explain to me how ludicrous that would be, and I smile. >>>
William Hyde
Frankly the main reason why this would never happen would be because
I am smiling.
I begin to see where Terry and D are coming from. Even when a troll is announced, people are trolled.
William Hyde
On 14/12/24 05:30, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 08:53:40 -0800, Bobbie Sellers
<bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
On 12/12/24 08:43, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 08:58:15 -0000 (UTC), Charles Packer
<mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 07:56:54 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/11/24 00:53, Charles Packer wrote:
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:12:46 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Now from what I hear Luigi had a beef because of a
On 12/10/24 13:04, quadibloc wrote:When that story hit the news I looked forward to the naming of the >>>>>>> suspect. Ah, the allegorical aspects. A very English name murdered by a >>>>>>> very Italian one. Hasn't there been some kind of beef for a while >>>>>>> between the two most ancient institutions of Western civilization? >>>>>>>
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health >>>>>>>>> insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no >>>>>>>>> one was safe from crime.
Actually it was a targeted assasination.
The killer had suffered a back injury and ended up
with lots of titanium screws holding his spine together.
I do not know exactly the beef he had but the
business of Health Insurance did not help the excutive's case with >>>>>>>> Luigi Mangione.
The solution which is unlikely to happen with the incoming
admiistration is Basic Assured Income and Universal Healthcare. >>>>>>>
painful pre-existing back condition not because of the old opposition >>>>>> between Northern and Southern Europe.
At least some journalists have gone down an allegorical path
with this story, using the lives of the protagonists
rather than vicissitudes of health care. From the front page of
the Washington Post: "As Mangione's once-charmed life
seemed to be crumbling, Brian Thompson's fortunes appeared to
be climbing."
Unacceptable as it was, at least this appears to be an ordinary crime, >>>> not an ideological one. For now, anyway.
To me it looks like the result of policies enforced by CEOs
of Insurance compaies of Denying payment for care, delaying approval
of care, and refusing the care for the particular patient. Just to
increase profit.
Exactly. A non-ideological crime based on actual wrongdoing. Not in
any way admirable.
Here is a comic illustrating this>
<https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/12/12/2291287/-Cartoon-Tom-the-Dancing-Bug-and-the-Manhunt-for-the-Killer-CEO>
My solution is simpler: the person at the top is /always/ responsible
[1]. Unless he was active in supervising the organization and this was
hidden from him.
[1] This is a common trope, whether by Pres Truman ("The buck stops
here", pointing to his desk or perhaps the Oval Office) to Star Trek
VI, where Kirk agrees that, as Captain, he is responsible for what
happened. So why does the buck /not/ stop at the top dog in these
cases?
Perhaps because one is fiction with a message and the other is reality?
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 19:21:19 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/12/2024 11:55 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:22:49 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
=20
On 12/11/2024 12:26 PM, Paul S Person wrote:=20
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 21:04:42 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major = >>health
insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that = >>no
one
was safe from crime.
Then I came across the following information on a web site: that = >>the
health care insurer of which he was the CEO had used an AI system = >>to
process claims; this system rejected 90% of all claims, including = >>many
valid ones.
Maybe this site is a leftist one, and this claim is not true, I = >>don't
know for sure. But if it is true, my sympathy for this homicide = >>victim
basically evaporated. After all, if someone's health insurer = >>doesn't
pay out on valid claims... that person might not get health care. = >>That
kills people. But the legal system wasn't in the process of = >>prosecuting
him as aggressively as any other murderer.
I saw the claim; I have no idea how true it is.
You must keep in mind that the USA does not have a "medical system". >>>>>> It has a Medical Industry composed of various competing business
enterprises.
And the purpose of a business enterprise is to /make money/, not to >>>>>> /pay claims/.
This 'corporatism' is something I'm less and less in love with every >>>>> year.
No matter what their PR may tell you, the fiduciary duty of
the officers in every public corporations is the same: "Maximize
shareholder return on investment". NOT "Serve our customers". If
they fail to do so at every opportunity, they can be sued.
Particularly when their customers are individuals, there is an
enormous disparity in agency and power, and corporations will
use their power to ride roughshod over people, and every year
it looks like they have fewer ethics and less of a conscience.
I'd love to find a solution which rebalanced this.
The Supreme Court provided a solution when they declared them to be
persons like everybody else.
=20
The solution is simple: when a corporation breaks the law, the
Chairman of the Board, the President (or whatever the title is in a
given case), and the first five levels down from the top of Management >>>> are considered to be legally responsible.
=20
/They/ go to prison. /They/ get executed if appropriate. This should
induce a certain amount of ... prudence ... in people in those
positions. And effective supervision of those below them.
=20
If a more accurate assignment of responsibility can be made, then it
should be. But the top dogs should only be held not responsible if the >>>> actual malefactors /deliberately and knowingly concealed/ what they
were doing.
=20
If you want to tell me this isn't practical, my response it: it should >>>> be /tried/. If nothing else, the Supreme Court should be faced with
either allowing it or reversing their prior decision and making
corporations no longer legal persons.
I'd love to see that, but now that corporations are held to be persons, >>>they can, through 'campaign contributions' bribe legislators to change >>>the rules in their favor.
Bribing a public official is a crime in most jurisdictions.
You haven't been paying attention. The Supreme Court recently
ruled that a 'gift' after the fact isn't a bribe.
Cryptoengineer wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
quadibloc wrote:
A few days ago, I had read in the news that the CEO of a major health
insurer was gunned down. This was shocking; it seemed to mean that no
one
was safe from crime.
Then I came across the following information on a web site: that the
health care insurer of which he was the CEO had used an AI system to
process claims; this system rejected 90% of all claims, including many >>>> valid ones.
Maybe this site is a leftist one, and this claim is not true, I don't
know for sure. But if it is true, my sympathy for this homicide victim >>>> basically evaporated. After all, if someone's health insurer doesn't
pay out on valid claims... that person might not get health care. That >>>> kills people. But the legal system wasn't in the process of prosecuting >>>> him as aggressively as any other murderer.
I saw the claim; I have no idea how true it is.
You must keep in mind that the USA does not have a "medical system".
It has a Medical Industry composed of various competing business
enterprises.
And the purpose of a business enterprise is to /make money/, not to
/pay claims/.
This 'corporatism' is something I'm less and less in love with every
year.
No matter what their PR may tell you, the fiduciary duty of
the officers in every public corporations is the same: "Maximize
shareholder return on investment". NOT "Serve our customers". If
they fail to do so at every opportunity, they can be sued.
Particularly when their customers are individuals, there is an
enormous disparity in agency and power, and corporations will
use their power to ride roughshod over people, and every year
it looks like they have fewer ethics and less of a conscience.
I'd love to find a solution which rebalanced this.
The Supreme Court provided a solution when they declared them to be
persons like everybody else.
The solution is simple: when a corporation breaks the law, the
Chairman of the Board, the President (or whatever the title is in a
given case), and the first five levels down from the top of Management
are considered to be legally responsible.
/They/ go to prison. /They/ get executed if appropriate. This should
induce a certain amount of ... prudence ... in people in those
positions. And effective supervision of those below them.
If a more accurate assignment of responsibility can be made, then it
should be. But the top dogs should only be held not responsible if the
actual malefactors /deliberately and knowingly concealed/ what they
were doing.
If you want to tell me this isn't practical, my response it: it should
be /tried/. If nothing else, the Supreme Court should be faced with
either allowing it or reversing their prior decision and making
corporations no longer legal persons.
D wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, William Hyde wrote:
The Horny Goat wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 15:33:40 -0500, William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
rOn Wed, 11 Dec 2024 17:39:11 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote:t.
Adding each Province as a State and expanding Canadian political
parties southwards might be helpful. Or not. Not that I would
recommend it.
But making all of Canada a /single/ State is ludicrous.
There are only two responses to this kind of crap, which I heard all too >>>>> often in my time in the US. The first is obscene, but the second is: >>>>>
"No, fifty two states". We demand control of the senate, even if you >>>>> make PR a state.
Then people try to explain to me how ludicrous that would be, and I
smile.
William Hyde
Frankly the main reason why this would never happen would be because
I am smiling.
I begin to see where Terry and D are coming from. Even when a troll is >>> announced, people are trolled.
This is the truth! I consider it an artform.
In much the same way that musical farts are an artform.
William Hyde
On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 20:32:17 +1300, Titus G Trump <noone@nowhere.com>snip
wrote:
On 14/12/24 05:30, Paul S Person wrote:
My solution is simpler: the person at the top is /always/ responsible
[1]. Unless he was active in supervising the organization and this was
hidden from him.
[1] This is a common trope, whether by Pres Truman ("The buck stops
here", pointing to his desk or perhaps the Oval Office) to Star Trek
VI, where Kirk agrees that, as Captain, he is responsible for what
happened. So why does the buck /not/ stop at the top dog in these
cases?
Perhaps because one is fiction with a message and the other is reality?
Truman isn't fiction.
On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, William Hyde wrote:
D wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, William Hyde wrote:
The Horny Goat wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 15:33:40 -0500, William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
rOn Wed, 11 Dec 2024 17:39:11 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:t.
Adding each Province as a State and expanding Canadian political >>>>>>> parties southwards might be helpful. Or not. Not that I would
recommend it.
But making all of Canada a /single/ State is ludicrous.
There are only two responses to this kind of crap, which I heard
all too
often in my time in the US. The first is obscene, but the second is: >>>>>>
"No, fifty two states". We demand control of the senate, even if you >>>>>> make PR a state.
Then people try to explain to me how ludicrous that would be, and
I smile.
William Hyde
Frankly the main reason why this would never happen would be because
I am smiling.
I begin to see where Terry and D are coming from. Even when a troll
is announced, people are trolled.
This is the truth! I consider it an artform.
In much the same way that musical farts are an artform.
William Hyde
Nope! Think performance art... you, and all of our friends here, are my canvas! ;)
On 15/12/24 11:33, D wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, William Hyde wrote:
D wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, William Hyde wrote:
The Horny Goat wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 15:33:40 -0500, William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
rOn Wed, 11 Dec 2024 17:39:11 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:t.
Adding each Province as a State and expanding Canadian political >>>>>>>> parties southwards might be helpful. Or not. Not that I would
recommend it.
But making all of Canada a /single/ State is ludicrous.
There are only two responses to this kind of crap, which I heard >>>>>>> all too
often in my time in the US. The first is obscene, but the second is: >>>>>>>
"No, fifty two states". We demand control of the senate, even if you >>>>>>> make PR a state.
Then people try to explain to me how ludicrous that would be, and >>>>>>> I smile.
William Hyde
Frankly the main reason why this would never happen would be because >>>>>
I am smiling.
I begin to see where Terry and D are coming from. Even when a troll >>>>> is announced, people are trolled.
This is the truth! I consider it an artform.
In much the same way that musical farts are an artform.
William Hyde
Nope! Think performance art... you, and all of our friends here, are my
canvas! ;)
Busking in a phonebox?
Rather than a more populated place like the island of Gotland in Sweden
where the world will gather to escape weather changes caused by the sun?
Nope! Think performance art... you, and all of our friends here, are my >canvas! ;)
Snopes doubts the claim about AI in parts.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/united-healthcare-ai-denied-claims/
On 12/12/2024 00:14, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 12/11/2024 4:06 PM, D wrote:
I think Trump is a great leader, and will bring the US to a new golden
age! I know that many tears have been shed by the democrats in this
group, and they do bring me great joy, but you will see that in the
end, our immortal leader will make life better for everyone. You just
wait and see! =)
"Immortal Leader"? where do you learn your factions rhetoric? Pyongyang?
Elon Musk builds pretty good robots.
The "Artificial intelligence" is not so good,
but it doesn't have to be.
On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, William Hyde wrote:
D wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, William Hyde wrote:
The Horny Goat wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 15:33:40 -0500, William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
rOn Wed, 11 Dec 2024 17:39:11 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:t.
Adding each Province as a State and expanding Canadian political >>>>>>> parties southwards might be helpful. Or not. Not that I would
recommend it.
But making all of Canada a /single/ State is ludicrous.
There are only two responses to this kind of crap, which I heard all too >>>>>> often in my time in the US.á The first is obscene, but the second is: >>>>>>
"No, fifty two states".á We demand control of the senate, even if you >>>>>> make PR a state.
Then people try to explain to me how ludicrous that would be, and I >>>>>> smile.
William Hyde
Frankly the main reason why this would never happen would be because
I am smiling.
I begin to see where Terry and D are coming from.á Even when a troll is >>>> announced, people are trolled.
This is the truth! I consider it an artform.
In much the same way that musical farts are an artform.
William Hyde
Nope! Think performance art... you, and all of our friends here, are my >canvas! ;)
On 15/12/24 05:09, Paul S Person wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 20:32:17 +1300, Titus G Trump <noone@nowhere.com>snip
wrote:
On 14/12/24 05:30, Paul S Person wrote:
My solution is simpler: the person at the top is /always/ responsible
[1]. Unless he was active in supervising the organization and this was >>>> hidden from him.
[1] This is a common trope, whether by Pres Truman ("The buck stops
here", pointing to his desk or perhaps the Oval Office) to Star Trek
VI, where Kirk agrees that, as Captain, he is responsible for what
happened. So why does the buck /not/ stop at the top dog in these
cases?
Perhaps because one is fiction with a message and the other is reality?
Truman isn't fiction.
He certainly accepted responsibility for use of atomic bombing of Japan.
I do not know of his record of other matters. The buck does stop "in
these cases", but nowadays it stops in the top dogs' bank accounts.
Didn't Truman also become somewhat rich as President?
Snopes doubts the claim about AI in parts.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/united-healthcare-ai-denied-claims/
On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 13:19:09 +1300, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 15/12/24 05:09, Paul S Person wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 20:32:17 +1300, Titus G Trump <noone@nowhere.com>snip
wrote:
On 14/12/24 05:30, Paul S Person wrote:
Truman isn't fiction.My solution is simpler: the person at the top is /always/ responsible >>>>> [1]. Unless he was active in supervising the organization and this was >>>>> hidden from him.
[1] This is a common trope, whether by Pres Truman ("The buck stops
here", pointing to his desk or perhaps the Oval Office) to Star Trek >>>>> VI, where Kirk agrees that, as Captain, he is responsible for what
happened. So why does the buck /not/ stop at the top dog in these
cases?
Perhaps because one is fiction with a message and the other is reality? >>>
He certainly accepted responsibility for use of atomic bombing of Japan.
I do not know of his record of other matters. The buck does stop "in
these cases", but nowadays it stops in the top dogs' bank accounts.
Didn't Truman also become somewhat rich as President?
I have no idea.
But, if he did, that means he /wasn't/ rich when he became President.
In January 1959, Truman calculated his net worth as $1,046,788.86 (equivalent to $10,941,000 in 2023),Nevertheless, > the Trumans always lived modestly in Independence, and
including a share in the Los Angeles Rams football team.
Truman died in 1982, almost a decade after her husband, the house wasSo like most other holders of the Presidency, Truman was richer
found to be in poor condition due to deferred maintenance.[311]
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Nope! Think performance art... you, and all of our friends here, are my
canvas! ;)
I think this is sort of deficient as art, because there is nothing that you can do or say at this point which would exceed the craziness of actual real life.
I am generally a fan of satire, but we are living in an age when you cannot tell if something is from the Onion or the New York Times anymore, because reality has become sufficiently extreme to be difficult to satirize.
It's bad times for political comedians. Bad times.
--scott
On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 23:33:08 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, William Hyde wrote:
D wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, William Hyde wrote:
The Horny Goat wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 15:33:40 -0500, William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
rOn Wed, 11 Dec 2024 17:39:11 +0000, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:t.
Adding each Province as a State and expanding Canadian political >>>>>>>> parties southwards might be helpful. Or not. Not that I would
recommend it.
But making all of Canada a /single/ State is ludicrous.
There are only two responses to this kind of crap, which I heard all too
often in my time in the US.á The first is obscene, but the second is: >>>>>>>
"No, fifty two states".á We demand control of the senate, even if you >>>>>>> make PR a state.
Then people try to explain to me how ludicrous that would be, and I >>>>>>> smile.
William Hyde
Frankly the main reason why this would never happen would be because >>>>>
I am smiling.
I begin to see where Terry and D are coming from.á Even when a troll is >>>>> announced, people are trolled.
This is the truth! I consider it an artform.
In much the same way that musical farts are an artform.
William Hyde
Nope! Think performance art... you, and all of our friends here, are my
canvas! ;)
You have friends here?
For this particular case, Jury Nullification empowers individuals who
share Mangione's sentiments to retroactively sanction his behaviour.
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:03:26 +0000, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
In 2020 on January 6 we had communal violence.
No, that's not "communal violence". That term is used in India to refer
to cases when a mob of people of one group massacre people belonging to another ethnic, racial, or religious group.
Yes, you have had that in the United States. For example, a historic
case in Florida was recently mentioned in the news - the Rosewood
massacre of January 5, 1923.
John Savard
Racially charged mass attack in Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA in May-June 1921appointed as deputies and armed by city government officials, attacked black residents and destroyed homes and businesses of the Greenwood District in Tulsa, Oklahoma
The Tulsa race massacre, also known as the Tulsa race riot or the Black Wall Street massacre, was a two-day-long white supremacist terrorist massacre that took place between May 31 and June 1, 1921, when mobs of white residents, some of whom had been
The Chicago Race Riot of 1919 was a violent conflict between white and Black Americans that occurred from July 27 to August 3, 1919, resulting in 38 deaths and significant injuries. It was part of the "Red Summer," a period marked by racial violenceacross the United States, largely fueled by tensions from the Great Migration and competition for jobs.
On 15/12/24 05:16, Paul S Person wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 16:52:43 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)snip
wrote:
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
Bribing a public official is a crime in most jurisdictions.
You haven't been paying attention. The Supreme Court recently
ruled that a 'gift' after the fact isn't a bribe.
And the SC is correct -- it's not a bribe, it's a kickback [1].
[1] Provided that there was no prior agreement involved, as the
promise of the payment preceding awarding the contract (or whatever)
would make it a bribe. But no mention was made of such an agreement.
Correction. There was no evidence of prior agreement. Corruption is
legal if there is nothing more than circumstantial evidence of prior agreement.
( https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-108_8n5a.pdf )
In summary a bribe is organised and paid prior to some desired behaviour
so the court determined that any post-facto payments are simply
gratuities and therefore not illegal.
A small town mayor, Snyder, asked for $13,000 from a company AFTER it
was awarded a town contract, was convicted but now absolved by the
Supreme Court of which some members have received substantial benefits
from billionaire friends whose interests they protect and assist being similar to their own.
On 12/16/24 11:42, quadibloc wrote:appointed as deputies and armed by city government officials, attacked black residents and destroyed homes and businesses of the Greenwood District in Tulsa, Oklahoma
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:03:26 +0000, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
ááááIn 2020 on January 6 we had communal violence.
No, that's not "communal violence". That term is used in India to refer
to cases when a mob of people of one group massacre people belonging to
another ethnic, racial, or religious group.
Yes, you have had that in the United States. For example, a historic
case in Florida was recently mentioned in the news - the Rosewood
massacre of January 5, 1923.
John Savard
The destruction of Black Wall Street in Tulsa, Oklahoma.> Tulsa race
massacre
Racially charged mass attack in Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA in May-June 1921
The Tulsa race massacre, also known as the Tulsa race riot or the Black Wall Street massacre, was a two-day-long white supremacist terrorist massacre that took place between May 31 and June 1, 1921, when mobs of white residents, some of whom had been
Now that is communal violence as were the Chicago Race Riotsacross the United States, largely fueled by tensions from the Great Migration and competition for jobs.
The Chicago Race Riot of 1919 was a violent conflict between white and Black Americans that occurred from July 27 to August 3, 1919, resulting in 38 deaths and significant injuries. It was part of the "Red Summer," a period marked by racial violence
That omits the long history of Lynching in the USA.
One crazy old man aka "Emperor Nortor" prevented--
the attempt of white San Francisans to terrorize the Chinese
immigrants. you can read more about the situation at: ><https://emperornortontrust.org/blog/2019/1/4/campaign-discovers-newspaper-record-of-emperor-nortons-famous-stand-off-with-an-anti-chinese-crowd>
I know we have had more race riots in Northern Cities.
Black Towns were rased by white haters in various places
in our nation and city government by black people overthrown
by White Men who just hated the idea that black people could
run a city.
bliss who happens to be a white blued blond.
On 2024-12-15, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 15/12/24 05:16, Paul S Person wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 16:52:43 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)snip
wrote:
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
Bribing a public official is a crime in most jurisdictions.
You haven't been paying attention. The Supreme Court recently
ruled that a 'gift' after the fact isn't a bribe.
And the SC is correct -- it's not a bribe, it's a kickback [1].
[1] Provided that there was no prior agreement involved, as the
promise of the payment preceding awarding the contract (or whatever)
would make it a bribe. But no mention was made of such an agreement.
Correction. There was no evidence of prior agreement. Corruption is
legal if there is nothing more than circumstantial evidence of prior
agreement.
( https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-108_8n5a.pdf )
In summary a bribe is organised and paid prior to some desired behaviour
so the court determined that any post-facto payments are simply
gratuities and therefore not illegal.
A small town mayor, Snyder, asked for $13,000 from a company AFTER it
was awarded a town contract, was convicted but now absolved by the
Supreme Court of which some members have received substantial benefits
from billionaire friends whose interests they protect and assist being
similar to their own.
NO! The Supreme Court explicitly did NOT say that it was not
illegal. (It did say it was a gratuity.)
There are very extensive laws and regulations about gratuities at local, >state, and federal levels. Perhaps there needs to be more, but that's not
the issue here.
The Supreme Court ruled that this one particular law, which in places
used quite general ambiguous language, applied only to bribery and not
to after-the-fact gratuities. Among other things, they pointed out
that doing otherwise would invalidate pretty much all of those
extensive laws and regulations about gratuities. A fortunate thing
for me, IMO, as I prepare my annual Christmas gift of $20 to my mail
carrier (the maximum allowed by law/regulation). I could be a felon
given a prosecutor so inclined (though the federal law may have had
higher limits.)
Snyder was a very narrow ruling, affecting one federal law, that had no >impact on all of the laws and regulations regarding gratuities. It did
not in any way attempt to say that gratuities were not illegal.
Another liberal conspiracy theory.
On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 19:00:14 +0000, William Hyde wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 20:32:17 +1300, Titus G Trump <noone@nowhere.com>
wrote:
On 14/12/24 05:30, Paul S Person wrote:
Truman isn't fiction.[1] This is a common trope, whether by Pres Truman ("The buck stops
here", pointing to his desk or perhaps the Oval Office) to Star Trek >>>>> VI, where Kirk agrees that, as Captain, he is responsible for what
happened. So why does the buck /not/ stop at the top dog in these
cases?
Perhaps because one is fiction with a message and the other is reality? >>>
We could start a Harry Truman denialism movement. When FDR died (if
indeed he did!), Eleanor hired an actor to play Truman while she ran the
country until 1952 before ceding power to FDR's illegitimate son.
The only thing fictional about Harry "S" Truman was his middle initial.
But, on the other hand, the television show Star Trek was fiction, and I >think
that was what was being referred to.
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:14:22 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Trump is a great leader, and will bring the US to a new golden
age! I know that many tears have been shed by the democrats in this
group, and they do bring me great joy, but you will see that in the end, >>> our immortal leader will make life better for everyone. You just wait
and see! =)
"Immortal Leader"? where do you learn your factions rhetoric? Pyongyang?
You sound like a cultist.
Sounds more like sarcasm to me.
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 18:50:46 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:14:22 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Trump is a great leader, and will bring the US to a new golden >>>> age! I know that many tears have been shed by the democrats in this
group, and they do bring me great joy, but you will see that in the end, >>>> our immortal leader will make life better for everyone. You just wait
and see! =)
"Immortal Leader"? where do you learn your factions rhetoric? Pyongyang? >>>
You sound like a cultist.
Sounds more like sarcasm to me.
The history of his posting suggests it isn't too far from his beliefs
On 19/12/24 13:15, Mad Hamish wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 18:50:46 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:14:22 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Trump is a great leader, and will bring the US to a new golden >>>>> age! I know that many tears have been shed by the democrats in this
group, and they do bring me great joy, but you will see that in the end, >>>>> our immortal leader will make life better for everyone. You just wait >>>>> and see! =)
"Immortal Leader"? where do you learn your factions rhetoric? Pyongyang? >>>>
You sound like a cultist.
Sounds more like sarcasm to me.
The history of his posting suggests it isn't too far from his beliefs
Secretly he wishes to be taken to the opera by a homosexual but
suppresses this desire by imitating the self styled proverbial gift to
women, His Orangeness, (with exaggeration).
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 18:50:46 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 19:14:22 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Trump is a great leader, and will bring the US to a new golden >>>> age! I know that many tears have been shed by the democrats in this
group, and they do bring me great joy, but you will see that in the end, >>>> our immortal leader will make life better for everyone. You just wait
and see! =)
"Immortal Leader"? where do you learn your factions rhetoric? Pyongyang? >>>
You sound like a cultist.
Sounds more like sarcasm to me.
The history of his posting suggests it isn't too far from his beliefs