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On 12/25/2024 11:44 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Tue Dec 24 08:14:06 2024 zen cycle wrote:
Since you obviously didn't read the article, here's this little tidbit:
"[Laura] Hobb?s father, Jerry Hobbs.....was falsely imprisoned for five
years awaiting trial before Avila-Torrez was determined to be Laura?s
actual killer. "
If death penalty proponents had their way, the father would have been
executed for a crime he didn't commit. This, exactly, was the reason
Governor George Ryan issued a moratorium in 2000 and the state abolished >> the death penalty in 2011.
and reduce it to Beyond a Reasonable Doubt which DA's are happy to build a case around since it isn't their lives at stake.Our local dick sucker has never been on a jury and he doesn't understand one of the things at work from reducing the death sentence to life in prison. Neither the DA's nor the juries take anywhere near as clear a line at "Beyond the Shadow of a Doubt"
You might find your arguments more persuasive by omitting
the 3d and 4th word above.
Or not, but it couldn't hurt.
On 12/25/2024 12:29 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Tue Dec 24 07:35:57 2024 AMuzi wrote:
On 12/24/2024 3:53 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 16:47:30 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 04:10:43 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 00:15:57 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 12/23/2024 10:20 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 09:46:18 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2024 19:02:49 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Raped and murdered by one of Uncle Joe's pals:
https://nypost.com/2024/12/23/us-news/victims-shattered-kin-wants-biden-to-explain-to-our-faces-stunning-death-row-christmas-clemency/
But, But, But... you have all those people back there weeping and >>>>>>>> crying about how cruel the death sentence is.
Personally I believe that the individuals and family involved in >>>>>>>> crimes like murder and rape should have a right to say, hang him or >>>>>>>> let him go.
Yes, but life imprisonment saves money:
<https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs>
"The death penalty is far more expensive than a system utilizing life >>>>>>> without parole sentences as an alternative punishment."
In addition to the expense (in Tax Dollars!!!)...
Biden is Catholic, and the Catholic Church is officially against the >>>>>> death penalty.
AFAIK there's no evidence it acts as a real deterrent.
Immoral (according to at least many experts in morality), expensive, >>>>>> ineffective ...
<eyeroll> Seriously? "experts in morality?" Who might that be?
Morality is, of course, a subject evaluation.
What were the arguments in favor of it?
There is probably no justification for discussions (in the U.S.) in >>>> favor of Morality.
After all, from 1783 to the present the U.S.has been at war for nearly >>>> all of its history.
"Since The United States of America was founded in 1776, this country >>>> has been in war for 222 years. That is, the 93% of its time since it >>>> exists. Only 21 years were peaceful."
Are you suggesting that war is unconditionally immoral?
--
C'est bon
Soloman
That defies a categorical conclusion.
Take Mr Bush the Elder's recuse of Kuwait. A right and
proper excursion, well planned, quickly executed. Hard to
argue against it.
But you can't call that a war. More of a retributative strike.
Two million servicemen (including transport, logistics &
support) in a perfectly planned and executed expedition,
with a clear definition of victory and resolved posthaste.
If you can't see that as the exemplar of how to conduct a
war, you need to read some history for a better perspective.
On 12/26/2024 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
There are 120 guns for every American citizen and homicides by guns usually involve frugs which you as a Democrat heartily Aapprove by legalizing at every chance...
Typos and misspellings aside:
No, Tom, there are not 120 guns for every American citizen.
And if you're complaining about legalizing drugs, complain to Mr. Muzi.
AFAIR he's the only one here who has specifically posted in favor of
that policy.
On 12/26/2024 12:04 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Thu Dec 26 10:31:55 2024 John B. wrote:
On Wed, 25 Dec 2024 19:23:37 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/25/2024 6:26 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Wed Dec 25 13:15:14 2024 AMuzi wrote:
On 12/25/2024 12:29 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Tue Dec 24 07:35:57 2024 AMuzi wrote:
On 12/24/2024 3:53 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 16:47:30 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 04:10:43 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 00:15:57 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 12/23/2024 10:20 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 09:46:18 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>In addition to the expense (in Tax Dollars!!!)...
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2024 19:02:49 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Raped and murdered by one of Uncle Joe's pals:
https://nypost.com/2024/12/23/us-news/victims-shattered-kin-wants-biden-to-explain-to-our-faces-stunning-death-row-christmas-clemency/
But, But, But... you have all those people back there weeping and
crying about how cruel the death sentence is.
Personally I believe that the individuals and family involved in
crimes like murder and rape should have a right to say, hang him or
let him go.
Yes, but life imprisonment saves money:
<https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs>
"The death penalty is far more expensive than a system utilizing life
without parole sentences as an alternative punishment." >>>>>>>>>>>
Biden is Catholic, and the Catholic Church is officially against the
death penalty.
AFAIK there's no evidence it acts as a real deterrent. >>>>>>>>>>>
Immoral (according to at least many experts in morality), expensive,
ineffective ...
<eyeroll> Seriously? "experts in morality?" Who might that be? >>>>>>>>>>
Morality is, of course, a subject evaluation.
What were the arguments in favor of it?
There is probably no justification for discussions (in the U.S.) in
favor of Morality.
After all, from 1783 to the present the U.S.has been at war for nearly
all of its history.
"Since The United States of America was founded in 1776, this country
has been in war for 222 years. That is, the 93% of its time since it
exists. Only 21 years were peaceful."
Are you suggesting that war is unconditionally immoral?
--
C'est bon
Soloman
That defies a categorical conclusion.
Take Mr Bush the Elder's recuse of Kuwait. A right and
proper excursion, well planned, quickly executed. Hard to
argue against it.
But you can't call that a war. More of a retributative strike.
Two million servicemen (including transport, logistics &
support) in a perfectly planned and executed expedition,
with a clear definition of victory and resolved posthaste.
If you can't see that as the exemplar of how to conduct a
war, you need to read some history for a better perspective.
What was its cause and what did it achieve?
Iraq invaded, pillaged, raped and enslaved the Kuwaitis.
Rather than holding a press conference and warning about
some mythical 'red line' while dithering (that really
happened, 2012) or holding a press conference and warning
the invader , "Don't" (same team, different spokesman, ten
years later), Mr Bush defined victory as 'liberation of
Kuwait', drew sensible plans, marshaled the resources to
pursue them, authorized competent military commanders,
notably Gen Norman Schwartzkopf, and routed teh Iraqui army
out of Kuwait in four days.
Not twenty years. Four days.
That does not fit the common criticism 'endless war'.
Better still, once the defined goal was reached, we declare
victory and stopped. No nation building, no social
experiments, no CIA manipulation of local elections, etc.
Well. Sort of.
The George W. Bush administration began actively pressing for military
intervention in Iraq in late 2001. And then there was the "weapons of
mass destruction" that Iraq had developed and, of course ,Colin
Powell's speech to the U.N. Security Council Wednesday, January 5,
2003.
Hardly a single, isolated, affair, nor an honest explanation of why.
and there was quite a few casualkties among military.I will say this, Iraq WAS trying to protect themselves from Iran. They did have poison gas production and bioweapons experimentation but after that was put to them forcefully as against the Geneva Convention, they immediately STOPPED that.
Biowar weapons degrade to useless almost immediately if not maintained but the poison gas does not. Invasion of Iraq largely by the US found the poison gas which is what I programmed the poison gas detectors for.Destruction of the gas was careless
This was nothing more than an excuse for the USA to get into another long term war.
I have no idea what you mean. Anthrax for example doesn't
just sublimate into a fresh spring air fragrance. It kills.
Neither side was any better or worse than the other in any way.
Mr Kissinger's comment on the Iran Iraq war still holds much
truth, "Too bad they can't both lose."
On 12/25/2024 11:52 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Tue Dec 24 00:15:57 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/23/2024 10:20 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 09:46:18 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2024 19:02:49 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
Raped and murdered by one of Uncle Joe's pals:
https://nypost.com/2024/12/23/us-news/victims-shattered-kin-wants-biden-to-explain-to-our-faces-stunning-death-row-christmas-clemency/
But, But, But... you have all those people back there weeping and
crying about how cruel the death sentence is.
Personally I believe that the individuals and family involved in
crimes like murder and rape should have a right to say, hang him or
let him go.
Yes, but life imprisonment saves money:
<https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs>
"The death penalty is far more expensive than a system utilizing life
without parole sentences as an alternative punishment."
In addition to the expense (in Tax Dollars!!!)...
Biden is Catholic, and the Catholic Church is officially against the
death penalty.
AFAIK there's no evidence it acts as a real deterrent.
Immoral (according to at least many experts in morality), expensive,
ineffective ...
What were the arguments in favor of it?
Frank, the deterence is there for anyone willing to look for it. A murderer executed may never again repeat that act. Was that something that somehow escaped your attention?
I am unaware of the Catholic Church being against the death penalty because the commandment translates - thoughy shalt not do murder and it was common for Jews to kill even people stealing things let alone commiting murder.
That sentence is utterly wrong on several levels and misses
the point completely.
On 12/25/2024 12:52 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I am unaware of the Catholic Church being against the death penalty ...
I'm not surprised.