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Am Sun, 22 Dec 2024 22:37:18 GMT schrieb cyclintomeffectively stops the Chinese from copying their designs.
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>:
SRAM really simplifies everything with total wireless which means that the components have to be "married" to one another to prevent actuation from other levers. They also patented the independent batteries in the derailleurs and levers. This
Perhaps. But patenting an "independent battery"? Yet another trivial
patent?
Total wireless means that putting the group on a bike is installing the manual hydralic disk brakes only and of course marrying the components.
Correct.
I don't know if theyh are delivered already married but they probably are. Some bicycle mechanics are really smart while others are not so. Best not to assume anything.
When building a bike, one usually buys compenents separately, often from different suppliers. At least I did so, for obvious reasons. Naturalely, those components aren't paired, when you get them.
When you build a bike, you usually buy the components separately, often
from different suppliers. At least that's what I did, for obvious
reasons. Of course, these components are not paired when you get them. However, pairing is trivial.
...
In short, I think that the only people that would use the electric groups are pro-racers and people who want to think they could be.
Bullshit. Proof: Two years ago, I built two bikes with SRAM Etap AXS
groups. We are old, we aren't racers and never were. No one in the
family is or has been a member of a sport oriented cycling club. We just
like and perhaps need the convenience.
Am Sun, 22 Dec 2024 22:37:18 GMT schrieb cyclintomeffectively stops the Chinese from copying their designs.
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>:
SRAM really simplifies everything with total wireless which means that the components have to be "married" to one another to prevent actuation from other levers. They also patented the independent batteries in the derailleurs and levers. This
Perhaps. But patenting an "independent battery"? Yet another trivial
patent?
Total wireless means that putting the group on a bike is installing the manual hydralic disk brakes only and of course marrying the components.
Correct.
I don't know if theyh are delivered already married but they probably are. Some bicycle mechanics are really smart while others are not so. Best not to assume anything.
When building a bike, one usually buys compenents separately, often from different suppliers. At least I did so, for obvious reasons. Naturalely, those components aren't paired, when you get them.
When you build a bike, you usually buy the components separately, often
from different suppliers. At least that's what I did, for obvious
reasons. Of course, these components are not paired when you get them. However, pairing is trivial.
...
In short, I think that the only people that would use the electric groups are pro-racers and people who want to think they could be.
Bullshit. Proof: Two years ago, I built two bikes with SRAM Etap AXS
groups. We are old, we aren't racers and never were. No one in the
family is or has been a member of a sport oriented cycling club. We just
like and perhaps need the convenience.
On 12/23/2024 2:09 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:effectively stops the Chinese from copying their designs.
Am Sun, 22 Dec 2024 22:37:18 GMT schrieb cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>:
SRAM really simplifies everything with total wireless which means that the components have to be "married" to one another to prevent actuation from other levers. They also patented the independent batteries in the derailleurs and levers. This
Perhaps. But patenting an "independent battery"? Yet another trivial patent?
Total wireless means that putting the group on a bike is installing the manual hydralic disk brakes only and of course marrying the components.
Correct.
I don't know if theyh are delivered already married but they probably are. Some bicycle mechanics are really smart while others are not so. Best not to assume anything.
When building a bike, one usually buys compenents separately, often from different suppliers. At least I did so, for obvious reasons. Naturalely, those components aren't paired, when you get them.
When you build a bike, you usually buy the components separately, often from different suppliers. At least that's what I did, for obvious
reasons. Of course, these components are not paired when you get them. However, pairing is trivial.
...
In short, I think that the only people that would use the electric groups are pro-racers and people who want to think they could be.
Bullshit. Proof: Two years ago, I built two bikes with SRAM Etap AXS groups. We are old, we aren't racers and never were. No one in the
family is or has been a member of a sport oriented cycling club. We just like and perhaps need the convenience.
Although some conjecture is always necessary, I read Mr
Kunich's 'patent' comment as relating to a design patent for
the battery module attachment and contacts, not an unique
battery chemistry or some such.
On Mon Dec 23 07:41:11 2024 AMuzi wrote:effectively stops the Chinese from copying their designs.
On 12/23/2024 2:09 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Sun, 22 Dec 2024 22:37:18 GMT schrieb cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>:
SRAM really simplifies everything with total wireless which means that the components have to be "married" to one another to prevent actuation from other levers. They also patented the independent batteries in the derailleurs and levers. This
Perhaps. But patenting an "independent battery"? Yet another trivial
patent?
Total wireless means that putting the group on a bike is installing the manual hydralic disk brakes only and of course marrying the components.
Correct.
I don't know if theyh are delivered already married but they probably are. Some bicycle mechanics are really smart while others are not so. Best not to assume anything.
When building a bike, one usually buys compenents separately, often from >>> different suppliers. At least I did so, for obvious reasons. Naturalely, >>> those components aren't paired, when you get them.
When you build a bike, you usually buy the components separately, often
from different suppliers. At least that's what I did, for obvious
reasons. Of course, these components are not paired when you get them.
However, pairing is trivial.
...
In short, I think that the only people that would use the electric groups are pro-racers and people who want to think they could be.
Bullshit. Proof: Two years ago, I built two bikes with SRAM Etap AXS
groups. We are old, we aren't racers and never were. No one in the
family is or has been a member of a sport oriented cycling club. We just >>> like and perhaps need the convenience.
Although some conjecture is always necessary, I read Mr
Kunich's 'patent' comment as relating to a design patent for
the battery module attachment and contacts, not an unique
battery chemistry or some such.
As I understand it, SRAM has patented the feature of replaceable batteries mounted on the front and rear derailleurs. But I don't think that includes the coin cells in the levers which I think Shimano got to first and didn't patent. This leads me tosuspect that Shimano was working with wireless levers for a long time before SRAM was released.
On 12/23/2024 11:21 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Mon Dec 23 07:41:11 2024 AMuzi wrote:
On 12/23/2024 2:09 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Sun, 22 Dec 2024 22:37:18 GMT schrieb cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>:
SRAM really simplifies everything with total wireless which means
that the components have to be "married" to one another to prevent
actuation from other levers. They also patented the independent
batteries in the derailleurs and levers. This effectively stops the
Chinese from copying their designs.
Perhaps. But patenting an "independent battery"? Yet another trivial
patent?
Total wireless means that putting the group on a bike is installing
the manual hydralic disk brakes only and of course marrying the components.
Correct.
I don't know if theyh are delivered already married but they probably >>>>> are. Some bicycle mechanics are really smart while others are not so. >>>>> Best not to assume anything.
When building a bike, one usually buys compenents separately, often from >>>> different suppliers. At least I did so, for obvious reasons. Naturalely, >>>> those components aren't paired, when you get them.
When you build a bike, you usually buy the components separately, often >>>> from different suppliers. At least that's what I did, for obvious
reasons. Of course, these components are not paired when you get them. >>>> However, pairing is trivial.
...
In short, I think that the only people that would use the electric
groups are pro-racers and people who want to think they could be.
Bullshit. Proof: Two years ago, I built two bikes with SRAM Etap AXS
groups. We are old, we aren't racers and never were. No one in the
family is or has been a member of a sport oriented cycling club. We just >>>> like and perhaps need the convenience.
Although some conjecture is always necessary, I read Mr
Kunich's 'patent' comment as relating to a design patent for
the battery module attachment and contacts, not an unique
battery chemistry or some such.
As I understand it, SRAM has patented the feature of replaceable
batteries mounted on the front and rear derailleurs. But I don't think
that includes the coin cells in the levers which I think Shimano got to
first and didn't patent. This leads me to suspect that Shimano was
working with wireless levers for a long time before SRAM was released.
I am not an expert on intellectual property, but it seems to
me that nothing about Shimano's pair of 2032 cells in the
lever is patentable; thousands of similar 'prior art'.
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/23/2024 11:21 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Mon Dec 23 07:41:11 2024 AMuzi wrote:
On 12/23/2024 2:09 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Sun, 22 Dec 2024 22:37:18 GMT schrieb cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>:
SRAM really simplifies everything with total wireless which means
that the components have to be "married" to one another to prevent >>>>> actuation from other levers. They also patented the independent
batteries in the derailleurs and levers. This effectively stops the >>>>> Chinese from copying their designs.
Perhaps. But patenting an "independent battery"? Yet another trivial >>>> patent?
Total wireless means that putting the group on a bike is installing >>>>> the manual hydralic disk brakes only and of course marrying the components.
Correct.
I don't know if theyh are delivered already married but they probably >>>>> are. Some bicycle mechanics are really smart while others are not so. >>>>> Best not to assume anything.
When building a bike, one usually buys compenents separately, often from >>>> different suppliers. At least I did so, for obvious reasons. Naturalely, >>>> those components aren't paired, when you get them.
When you build a bike, you usually buy the components separately, often >>>> from different suppliers. At least that's what I did, for obvious
reasons. Of course, these components are not paired when you get them. >>>> However, pairing is trivial.
...
In short, I think that the only people that would use the electric >>>>> groups are pro-racers and people who want to think they could be.
Bullshit. Proof: Two years ago, I built two bikes with SRAM Etap AXS >>>> groups. We are old, we aren't racers and never were. No one in the
family is or has been a member of a sport oriented cycling club. We just >>>> like and perhaps need the convenience.
Although some conjecture is always necessary, I read Mr
Kunich's 'patent' comment as relating to a design patent for
the battery module attachment and contacts, not an unique
battery chemistry or some such.
As I understand it, SRAM has patented the feature of replaceable
batteries mounted on the front and rear derailleurs. But I don't think
that includes the coin cells in the levers which I think Shimano got to
first and didn't patent. This leads me to suspect that Shimano was
working with wireless levers for a long time before SRAM was released.
I am not an expert on intellectual property, but it seems to
me that nothing about Shimano's pair of 2032 cells in the
lever is patentable; thousands of similar 'prior art'.
None of the battery placements are, case in point Campagnolo has like SRAM removable batteries on the mechs.
He?s making unsubstantiated claims as ever.
Though his point that the LTWoo and some others seem to be after some of
the groupset pie, though I believe they are more focused on the home market (China) than US/Europe etc.
At least that?s what when interviewed at one of the bike shows?
Roger Merriman
On Mon Dec 23 18:21:26 2024 Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/23/2024 11:21 AM, cyclintom wrote:None of the battery placements are, case in point Campagnolo has like SRAM >> removable batteries on the mechs.
On Mon Dec 23 07:41:11 2024 AMuzi wrote:
On 12/23/2024 2:09 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Sun, 22 Dec 2024 22:37:18 GMT schrieb cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>:
SRAM really simplifies everything with total wireless which means >>>>>>> that the components have to be "married" to one another to prevent >>>>>>> actuation from other levers. They also patented the independent
batteries in the derailleurs and levers. This effectively stops the >>>>>>> Chinese from copying their designs.
Perhaps. But patenting an "independent battery"? Yet another trivial >>>>>> patent?
Total wireless means that putting the group on a bike is installing >>>>>>> the manual hydralic disk brakes only and of course marrying the components.
Correct.
I don't know if theyh are delivered already married but they probably >>>>>>> are. Some bicycle mechanics are really smart while others are not so. >>>>>>> Best not to assume anything.
When building a bike, one usually buys compenents separately, often from >>>>>> different suppliers. At least I did so, for obvious reasons. Naturalely, >>>>>> those components aren't paired, when you get them.
When you build a bike, you usually buy the components separately, often >>>>>> from different suppliers. At least that's what I did, for obvious
reasons. Of course, these components are not paired when you get them. >>>>>> However, pairing is trivial.
...
Bullshit. Proof: Two years ago, I built two bikes with SRAM Etap AXS >>>>>> groups. We are old, we aren't racers and never were. No one in the >>>>>> family is or has been a member of a sport oriented cycling club. We just >>>>>> like and perhaps need the convenience.
In short, I think that the only people that would use the electric >>>>>>> groups are pro-racers and people who want to think they could be. >>>>>>
Although some conjecture is always necessary, I read Mr
Kunich's 'patent' comment as relating to a design patent for
the battery module attachment and contacts, not an unique
battery chemistry or some such.
As I understand it, SRAM has patented the feature of replaceable
batteries mounted on the front and rear derailleurs. But I don't think >>>> that includes the coin cells in the levers which I think Shimano got to >>>> first and didn't patent. This leads me to suspect that Shimano was
working with wireless levers for a long time before SRAM was released.
I am not an expert on intellectual property, but it seems to
me that nothing about Shimano's pair of 2032 cells in the
lever is patentable; thousands of similar 'prior art'.
He?s making unsubstantiated claims as ever.
Though his point that the LTWoo and some others seem to be after some of
the groupset pie, though I believe they are more focused on the home market >> (China) than US/Europe etc.
At least that?s what when interviewed at one of the bike shows?
Roger Merriman
What is unsubstatiated?
REAR DERAILLEUR
Publication number: 20240343343
Abstract: An embodiment of the invention provides an electromechanical
rear derailleur for a bicycle including a base member that is configured
to be coupled to a frame member of a bicycle. The derailleur includes a movable member and a link mechanism that movably couples the movable
member to the base member. A motor is positioned at the movable member to move the movable member.
Type: Application
Filed: June 21, 2024
Publication date: October 17, 2024
Applicant: SRAM, LLC
Inventors: CHRISTOPHER SHIPMAN, BRIAN JORDAN
Control assembly for a wireless electromechanical bicycle shifting system Patent number: 12116081
Abstract: A bicycle control assembly may be provided for operating an electromechanical gear shifting device. The control assembly includes a graspable housing mountable to the bicycle, a power supply connected to
the control assembly disposed in the housing, a first operating member movably connected to the housing, and electronic componentry disposed on
the first operating member. The electronic componentry may include an electrical switch, a controller in communication with the electrical
switch and configured to generate a signal to change a shift position of
the gear shifting device responsive to an input from the electrical
switch, and an antenna in communication with the controller and
configured to send the signal. The control assembly may also include a
cable extending from the housing to the first operating member connecting
the power supply and the electronic componentry.
Type: Grant
Filed: August 8, 2023
Date of Patent: October 15, 2024
Assignee: SRAM, LLC
Inventors: Christopher Shipman, Matthew C. Morris
Bicycle control system
Patent number: 12103640
Abstract: A method for controlling electronic shifting of a bicycle
includes identifying, by a processor, a torque at a crank arm of the
bicycle. The processor compares the identified torque or a parameter
based on the identified torque to a predetermined band. The predetermined band has an upper limit and a lower limit. The processor determines a
target cadence based on the comparison. The processor determines a
cadence band based on the determined target cadence. The method also
includes controlling the electronic shifting of the bicycle based on the determined cadence band. The controlling of the electronic shifting of
the bicycle includes actuating a motor of a derailleur of the bicycle for
the electronic shifting of the bicycle when a cadence of the bicycle is outside of the determined cadence band.
Type: Grant
Filed: June 3, 2021
Date of Patent: October 1, 2024
Assignee: SRAM, LLC
Inventor: Sage Hahn
Bicycle control system
Patent number: 12103639
Abstract: A method for controlling electronic shifting of a bicycle
includes identifying, by a processor, sensor data. The sensor data
identifies a state of the bicycle. The processor determines a rider engagement status based on the identified sensor data. The processor determines a target cadence based on the determined rider engagement
status. The processor determines a cadence band based on the determined target cadence. The electronic shifting of the bicycle is controlled
based on the determined cadence band. The controlling of the electronic shifting of the bicycle includes actuating a motor of the bicycle for electronic shifting of the bicycle when a cadence of the bicycle is
outside of the determined cadence band.
Type: Grant
Filed: June 3, 2021
Date of Patent: October 1, 2024
Assignee: SRAM, LLC
Inventor: Sage Hahn
BICYCLE RANGE REMAINING COMPARISON AND VISUALIZATION
Publication number: 20240278646
Abstract: A computer-based method is provided for monitoring bicycle
range. The method includes retrieving powered bicycle range data and
defining a remaining powered bicycle range at least partially based on
the powered bicycle range data. The method then determines or acquires distance to destination data and defines a remaining distance to a destination at least partially based on the distance to destination data.
The method then compares the powered bicycle range data or the remaining powered bicycle range to the distance to destination data or the
remaining distance to the destination and generates a visualization
comparing the powered bicycle range data to the distance to destination
data. Also provided is a system for implementing the methods described.
Type: Application
Filed: February 9, 2024
Publication date: August 22, 2024
Applicant: SRAM, LLC
Inventors: STEPHEN WINCHELL, COLE STOLTZFUS, BRENT DIMMIG, WILLIAM
TRIBBLE, JESSICA BRAUN, SHELBY SESSIONS, MARK SANTURBANE
Electromechanical rear derailleur
Patent number: 12017731
Abstract: An electromechanical rear derailleur is provided for a bicycle, including a base member for attachment to the bicycle. A movable member
has a cage assembly attached thereto. A linkage is provided that couples
the movable member to the base member and operative to enable movement of
the movable member relative to the base member in a direction
substantially parallel to the mounting axis. A power source powers an
motor module connected thereto to move the movable member and elements thereon.
Type: Grant
Filed: July 18, 2022
Date of Patent: June 25, 2024
Assignee: SRAM, LLC
Inventors: Christopher Shipman, Brian Jordan
POWER ON PAIRING FOR ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS OF A BICYCLE
Publication number: 20240179767
Abstract: An electronic component for a bicycle includes a communication interface and a processor in communication with the communication
interface. The processor is configured to identify a first power on time.
The first power on time identifies a time at which the electronic
component was powered on by a power source of the bicycle. The processor
is configured to listen for one or more messages after the electronic component is powered on and receive, via the communication interface, a message of the one or more messages. The received message is from another electronic component of the bicycle and identifies a second power on
time. The second power on time is for the other electronic component. The processor is configured to compare the second power on time to the first power on time and initiate, based on the comparison, pairing of the other electronic component with the electronic component.
Type: Application
Filed: November 30, 2022
Publication date: May 30, 2024
Applicant: SRAM, LLC
Inventors: SHELBY SESSIONS, SAGE HAHN, JOACHIM VEEH
Besides all of this, L-TWoo themselves have said that they are limited in what they can do BECAUSE of SRAM patents.
Why didn't you simply look this up before making your unsubstatiated comments?
None of the above are detailed but generic ie if they really did excludeothers then this would have stopped others from making Electronic
groupsets, and note that like SRAM, Campagnolo has small removable
batteries.
Your not going to get a patent for using a removable battery nor is SRAM patents preventing others such as Campagnolo from doing so.
On Mon Dec 23 19:37:44 2024 Roger Merriman wrote:
None of the above are detailed but generic ie if they really did excludeothers then this would have stopped others from making Electronic
groupsets, and note that like SRAM, Campagnolo has small removable
batteries.
Your not going to get a patent for using a removable battery nor is SRAM
patents preventing others such as Campagnolo from doing so.
Roger, you cannot patent prior art.
On Mon Dec 23 09:09:21 2024 Wolfgang Strobl wrote:...
Am Sun, 22 Dec 2024 22:37:18 GMT schrieb cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>:
In short, I think that the only people that would use the electric groups are pro-racers and people who want to think they could be.
Bullshit. Proof: Two years ago, I built two bikes with SRAM Etap AXS
groups. We are old, we aren't racers and never were. No one in the
family is or has been a member of a sport oriented cycling club. We just
like and perhaps need the convenience.
Wolfgang, I suppose you bought a wireless group because it was
less trouble than running manual cables.
You certainly derive no benifits since there is always that chance
that the coin cells in the levers will fail
or radio interference can cause loss of signals. One of my routes
runs passed a radio station and my fully wired Di2 occasionally
had shifting problems there. So I learned be in the correct
gear riding past there.
Am Mon, 23 Dec 2024 17:15:37 GMT schrieb cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>:
On Mon Dec 23 09:09:21 2024 Wolfgang Strobl wrote:...
Am Sun, 22 Dec 2024 22:37:18 GMT schrieb cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>:
In short, I think that the only people that would use the electric groups are pro-racers and people who want to think they could be.
Bullshit. Proof: Two years ago, I built two bikes with SRAM Etap AXS
groups. We are old, we aren't racers and never were. No one in the
family is or has been a member of a sport oriented cycling club. We just >> like and perhaps need the convenience.
Wolfgang, I suppose you bought a wireless group because it was
less trouble than running manual cables.
I guess pro-racers rarely build and repair their bikes themselves.
Anyway, sure, that was one of the reasons why.
However, I also preferred the electronic gearshift because it is much
easier to operate and works more reliably.
You certainly derive no benifits since there is always that chance
that the coin cells in the levers will fail
Perhaps, after using these for one or two years, depending on shifting frequency. No big deal, replacing it by a fresh CR2032 takes only a
minute or two. BTDT.
I could have bought more than a hundred CR2032 for the cost of a single replacement gearshift.
Some years ago, a broken wire inside the complicated brifter mechanism
on my older bike forced me to ride home without being able to change
gears. Even worse, a wire from the broken cable destroyed the ratched mechanism beyond repair. Finding a shop that had the model in question
in stock _and_ would actually carry out the repair in time almost ruined
our planned vacation. After this experience, I decided to replace the
inner cable every year. That's more expensive and a lot more work than
just replacing a CR2032 during or after a ride.
or radio interference can cause loss of signals. One of my routes
runs passed a radio station and my fully wired Di2 occasionally
had shifting problems there. So I learned be in the correct
gear riding past there.
Never happened to me. In the vicinity of a powerful radio station, a
protocol in the GHz range is perhaps more robust than long cables that
act as an antenna. So far, SRAMs proprietary Airea protocol seems to be
quite robust.