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"Vehicular cycling (also known as bicycle driving) is the practice of
riding bicycles on roads in a manner that is in accordance with the >principles for driving in traffic, and in a way that places
responsibility for safety on the individual."
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling
On Tue, 06 Aug 2024 11:59:18 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 5 Aug 2024 21:21:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"Vehicular cycling (also known as bicycle driving) is the practice of >>>riding bicycles on roads in a manner that is in accordance with the >>>principles for driving in traffic, and in a way that places >>>responsibility for safety on the individual."
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling
"[Placing] responsibility for safety on the individual" is not the
case when a bicyclist depends on a vehicle driver seeing him as he >>approaches an intersection. Only a fool would do that, and I most
surely do not. That's why I'm perfectly safe riding a side path next
to a vehicle lane going the opposite direction.
The trouble with vehicular cycling, as I see it, or at least from the
photos in the reference site, it assumes that the bicycle will be
traveling at a rate somewhat similar to the motor vehicles but where
I've ridden that just true.
Using the average bicycle speed >(https://www.cyclistshub.com/average-cycling-speed/
is in the 15 MPH - 24 KMH range and the traffic on the roads I ride in
are in the 60 - 90 KMH range, or some 2 to nearly 4 times faster and
often quite dense traffic, I once saw solid line of heavy trucks,
nose to tail, 1 KM in length traveling in the 80 - 90 KMH speed
range.
Seizing the lane doesn't work well when it means riding out in front
of a half a mile of heavily laden truck traveling at high speeds :-)
On 8/6/2024 11:59 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Mon, 5 Aug 2024 21:21:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"Vehicular cycling (also known as bicycle driving) is the practice of
riding bicycles on roads in a manner that is in accordance with the
principles for driving in traffic, and in a way that places
responsibility for safety on the individual."
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling
"[Placing] responsibility for safety on the individual" is not the
case when a bicyclist depends on a vehicle driver seeing him as he
approaches an intersection. Only a fool would do that, and I most
surely do not. That's why I'm perfectly safe riding a side path next
to a vehicle lane going the opposite direction.
So if a car approaches an intersection from a side street or driveway,
do you stop every time, even when you have the legal right of way? Really?
rOn Wed, 07 Aug 2024 04:33:14 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 23:11:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 8/6/2024 11:59 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:To answer your strawman question: no, I do not necessarily stop at all >>those situations. I do, however, require eye contact with the drivers >>before crossing in front of them. That's true on my sidepath rides, >>regardless of which direction I'm riding. That's also what I do when
On Mon, 5 Aug 2024 21:21:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"Vehicular cycling (also known as bicycle driving) is the practice of >>>>> riding bicycles on roads in a manner that is in accordance with the
principles for driving in traffic, and in a way that places
responsibility for safety on the individual."
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling
"[Placing] responsibility for safety on the individual" is not the
case when a bicyclist depends on a vehicle driver seeing him as he
approaches an intersection. Only a fool would do that, and I most
surely do not. That's why I'm perfectly safe riding a side path next
to a vehicle lane going the opposite direction.
So if a car approaches an intersection from a side street or driveway,
do you stop every time, even when you have the legal right of way? Really? >>
I'm walking on cross-walks.
I know that I'm far more vulnerable when I'm on a bicycle than when
I'm in my car or my truck, so I think it's incredibly stupid to ride
my bike the same way as I drive.
Talking bout "right of way" is at best, for a bicycle rider, stupid.
And I say that as, quite simply because in a collision between a motor >vehicle/auto/truck/bus and a bicycle the bicycle invariably ends up on
the short end of the stick.
So much so that Dale Carnegie even wrote a poem about it:
ôHere lies the body of William Jay, Who died maintaining his right of
wayù He was right, dead right, as he sped along, But he's just as dead
as if he were wrong.ö
On 8/7/2024 4:33 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 23:11:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 8/6/2024 11:59 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:To answer your strawman question: no, I do not necessarily stop at all
On Mon, 5 Aug 2024 21:21:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"Vehicular cycling (also known as bicycle driving) is the practice of >>>>> riding bicycles on roads in a manner that is in accordance with the
principles for driving in traffic, and in a way that places
responsibility for safety on the individual."
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling
"[Placing] responsibility for safety on the individual" is not the
case when a bicyclist depends on a vehicle driver seeing him as he
approaches an intersection. Only a fool would do that, and I most
surely do not. That's why I'm perfectly safe riding a side path next
to a vehicle lane going the opposite direction.
So if a car approaches an intersection from a side street or driveway,
do you stop every time, even when you have the legal right of way? Really? >>
those situations. I do, however, require eye contact with the drivers
before crossing in front of them. That's true on my sidepath rides,
regardless of which direction I'm riding. That's also what I do when
I'm walking on cross-walks.
I know that I'm far more vulnerable when I'm on a bicycle than when
I'm in my car or my truck, so I think it's incredibly stupid to ride
my bike the same way as I drive.
So much fear!
I've been bicycling avidly, including commutes to work and other utility >riding, since the early 1970s. I've done thousands of rides in (so far)
47 states and about ten other countries. I've never had a car-bike crash.
There must have been a million times motorists have stopped at side
street stop signs when I've ridden through using my right of way. I
can't imagine slowing or stopping in every such situation until I've
made "eye contact" with every such motorist.
If that's how a person really rides, it's little wonder they confine
their riding to bike trails.
So much timidity!
On 8/6/2024 11:42 PM, John B. wrote:
The trouble with vehicular cycling, as I see it, or at least from the
photos in the reference site, it assumes that the bicycle will be
traveling at a rate somewhat similar to the motor vehicles but where
I've ridden that just true.
What does "somewhat similar" mean? Most of my recreational riding is on
roads with vehicle speeds of 40 mph or more. On flat ground, I cruise at >maybe 17 or 18 mph. Riding as a legal vehicle operator works fine.
Squeezing off to the road's edge - which is one common alternative to >Vehicular Cycling - does not work as well, largely because motorists
pass much closer.
You're posting out of total ignorance.
- Frank Krygowski
On 8/7/2024 8:12 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 7 Aug 2024 10:35:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 8/7/2024 4:33 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 23:11:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 8/6/2024 11:59 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Mon, 5 Aug 2024 21:21:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"Vehicular cycling (also known as bicycle driving) is the practice of >>>>>>> riding bicycles on roads in a manner that is in accordance with the >>>>>>> principles for driving in traffic, and in a way that places
responsibility for safety on the individual."
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling
"[Placing] responsibility for safety on the individual" is not the >>>>>> case when a bicyclist depends on a vehicle driver seeing him as he >>>>>> approaches an intersection. Only a fool would do that, and I most
surely do not. That's why I'm perfectly safe riding a side path next >>>>>> to a vehicle lane going the opposite direction.
So if a car approaches an intersection from a side street or driveway, >>>>> do you stop every time, even when you have the legal right of way? Really?
To answer your strawman question: no, I do not necessarily stop at all >>>> those situations. I do, however, require eye contact with the drivers
before crossing in front of them. That's true on my sidepath rides,
regardless of which direction I'm riding. That's also what I do when
I'm walking on cross-walks.
I know that I'm far more vulnerable when I'm on a bicycle than when
I'm in my car or my truck, so I think it's incredibly stupid to ride
my bike the same way as I drive.
So much fear!
I've been bicycling avidly, including commutes to work and other utility >>> riding, since the early 1970s. I've done thousands of rides in (so far)
47 states and about ten other countries. I've never had a car-bike crash. >>>
There must have been a million times motorists have stopped at side
street stop signs when I've ridden through using my right of way. I
can't imagine slowing or stopping in every such situation until I've
made "eye contact" with every such motorist.
If that's how a person really rides, it's little wonder they confine
their riding to bike trails.
So much timidity!
Ah but that isn't what you originally said. You talked about an
intersection with an approaching auto and now you talk about an
intersection with an auto that has already stopped.
Two totally different situations, don't you know.
I've dealt with both situations countless times, John. I assume most
people posting here have done the same. I've never had a serious problem
from either situation, motorist stopped or motorist approaching. My
perfect safety proves your fears are excessive.
That's why I'm perfectly safe
On Tue, 06 Aug 2024 11:59:18 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
That's why I'm perfectly safe
There is no such thing as perfectly safe.
On two separate occasions, a car smashed into a building within
walking distance of my house, one to the north of me and one to the
south.
The first smashed into the main room of a pub, by a miracle coming to
rest in a space where no people were. One patron had intended to be
in that space at that time, but was delayed by a friend who wanted to
speak to him.
The second smashed into a sleeping porch. By another miracle, the boy
who usually slept there was elsewhere that night.
Later I spoke with the fellow who winched the house back onto its
foundation, and remarked that the brick siding he'd repaired the front
of the house with looked very nice. He said it wasn't siding -- it
was brick foundation wall, all the way up.
After we moved here, a fellow who took a corner a bit too fast parked
his car in a living room. Again, the people who lived there were in
other rooms at the time. The driver tried to run away, but neighbors
who had come out to see what the noise was made him wait for the
police. Unlike the other two incidents, this was not in a place I'd
ever walked to, but it was only a few minutes by bike.