Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> wrote:

Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> writes:

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:

<snip old crap>

============= ChatGPT's Critique ========================

I gave ChatGPT your original paragraph starting with "It seems to me,
that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered..."

Here's one of the first things it said:

"Deploying and maintaining aircraft systems like Skydweller may involve
significantly less upfront capital compared to launching thousands of
satellites into orbit, which requires rockets, ground infrastructure,
and ongoing satellite replenishment."

Which means ChatGPT doesn't seem to know that satellites are already in
place as is the ground infrastructure.

Some more highlights:

A bit further on ChatGPT doesn't seem to know that satellites can be
repositioned, though with a swarm instead of geosynchronous satellites
such is not necessary. GPS covers most of the world with 31 satellites.

ChatGPT doesn't seem to know that satellites are designed to be
destroyed during reentry at end of life and babbles about space debris,

ChatGPT says, "Building on Solar Impulse’s proven technology..." while
Solar Impulse’s technology has nothing what so ever to do with remote
communications systems running 24/7 for years.

Gee, ain't AI great?

ChatGPT is a toy. It's good for creating a memo or a proposal. Maybe
some light programming. At this point, at least.

So I don't know, can't ask for much on a system that is still learning
from a userbase that is largely using it for free. Quantity vs quality.

I work for the government and we have a mandate to fold AI into our
business practrices. At this point, to which degree I don't know. I'm
just the guy who makes the network modifications to allow the
traffic. But if I were to guess, it would be to assist people with
writing documents, assess new legislation and coding. Meanwhile, we have
been told to avoid all publicly available advanced language models like chatgpt because some of our data is sensitive. Our chief ISO's office obtained word that some exfiltration has already occured
unintentionally. Either way, a government owned AI model would still
require learning even if they purchase an existing model package.

In my opinion, over time, the intellectual output of our staff will go
down because they will rely on an advanced language model to
do the heavy lifting versus utilizing existing skills. And programmers
will become less skilled for the same reason. And if leadership later
changes and abolish the AI, the neighborhood will go to shit.

From personal experience, I have asked chatgpt to create source code for a simple project. The result was so poorly created that I spent more
time debugging it than if I had just created it from scratch. At this
point, I'd give chatgpt my completed code and have it create comments
and documentation. I asked it some complex questions on astronomy and it
only knew what it was trained to know and the answers were quite
inaccurate. Once I gave it some links, it revised its answers. Then I
asked the same question on a new thread and it gave a revised version of
the first answer. These systems have a long way to go.

I agree.

The major issues I see is that AI is trained with internet data, never
asks WTF are you talking about, always gives an answer and does not
"know" anything as humans "know" things as AI is, when you get down to
it, little more than a complex database lookup searching for key terms
and attempting to formulate answers based on complex lexical rules and
all based on dubious data in the first place.

That bulk internet data is dubious at best is obvious to the most
casual observer.

Since AI's seem to be built on the premise that all questions are
answerable and come nowhere near in understanding implied subtleties,
answers can range from flat wrong to be being totally made up.

At least the Star Trek computers were smart enough to say on occasion "insuffient data".

I asked ChatGPT when the lithium battery was invented as that should
be an easy question about a factual historical event. The AI went on
and on about the first rechargeable lithium battery made in 1970 and
then bloviated at length about battery development in the 1980's.

The correct answer to the question I asked is 1912, i.e. the date when
the first lithium battery was made.

It is obvious that the answer was derived from the huge volume of
internet articles about lithium batteries and what a wonderful thing
they are and not on the history of chemistry and physics.

BTW, it took over a half century from invention to commercial product
because nobody could figure out how to keep them from bursting into
flame, but I digress.

If AI were capable of saying WTF, as it obviously had no clue what the
word "invented" means, it would have responded with something like:

First battery XXXX
First rechargable battery XXXX
First commercial battery XXXX
Which are you interested in?

AI has no creativity, and nobody knows how creativity works. The AI
model of creativity is to generate a huge pile of possiblilies then do a statistical analysis to see if anything is relevent. This is just the
same as a million monkeys with a million typewritters and a copy editor
looking to write shakespeare at high speed.

AI can be very useful if the problem can be boiled down to statistical
analysis such as being trained on what a tumor looks like in a scan then analysing a scan at the pixel level looking for things that might be a
tumor then giving a probability that a thing in the scan is a tumor.

While AI can, given a good set of grammar rules, be a useful copy
editor, it will not write A Midsummer Night's Dream on it's own.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Daniel,

Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts.

Have a look at the video below, and you'll see the potential for today's
infant AI to gain agency, and ultimately dominate everything. It's
terrifying, but inevitable, IMNWHO.

Yuval Noah Harari discusses how AI could become a non-human billionaire with its own agenda, earning money and lobbying politicians. As AI becomes more
in tune with our personalities, we may feel disappointed by humans who lack this ability. Watch here: https://youtu.be/mcFxYIp5SSU

At the risk of this thread drifting further from piloting, how do you feel about the President-elect's following the Heritage Foundation's Project
2025, and the prospect of being included in his promised mass dismissal of government workers?

Larry


On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 07:13:39 +0000, Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> wrote:

Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> writes:

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:

<snip old crap>

============= ChatGPT's Critique ========================

I gave ChatGPT your original paragraph starting with "It seems to me,
that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered..."

Here's one of the first things it said:

"Deploying and maintaining aircraft systems like Skydweller may involve
significantly less upfront capital compared to launching thousands of
satellites into orbit, which requires rockets, ground infrastructure,
and ongoing satellite replenishment."

Which means ChatGPT doesn't seem to know that satellites are already in
place as is the ground infrastructure.

Some more highlights:

A bit further on ChatGPT doesn't seem to know that satellites can be
repositioned, though with a swarm instead of geosynchronous satellites
such is not necessary. GPS covers most of the world with 31 satellites.

ChatGPT doesn't seem to know that satellites are designed to be
destroyed during reentry at end of life and babbles about space debris,

ChatGPT says, "Building on Solar ImpulseÆs proven technology..." while
Solar ImpulseÆs technology has nothing what so ever to do with remote
communications systems running 24/7 for years.

Gee, ain't AI great?

ChatGPT is a toy. It's good for creating a memo or a proposal. Maybe
some light programming. At this point, at least.

So I don't know, can't ask for much on a system that is still learning
from a userbase that is largely using it for free. Quantity vs quality.

I work for the government and we have a mandate to fold AI into our
business practrices. At this point, to which degree I don't know. I'm
just the guy who makes the network modifications to allow the
traffic. But if I were to guess, it would be to assist people with
writing documents, assess new legislation and coding. Meanwhile, we have
been told to avoid all publicly available advanced language models like >chatgpt because some of our data is sensitive. Our chief ISO's office >obtained word that some exfiltration has already occured
unintentionally. Either way, a government owned AI model would still
require learning even if they purchase an existing model package.

In my opinion, over time, the intellectual output of our staff will go
down because they will rely on an advanced language model to
do the heavy lifting versus utilizing existing skills. And programmers
will become less skilled for the same reason. And if leadership later
changes and abolish the AI, the neighborhood will go to shit.

From personal experience, I have asked chatgpt to create source code for a >simple project. The result was so poorly created that I spent more
time debugging it than if I had just created it from scratch. At this
point, I'd give chatgpt my completed code and have it create comments
and documentation. I asked it some complex questions on astronomy and it
only knew what it was trained to know and the answers were quite
inaccurate. Once I gave it some links, it revised its answers. Then I
asked the same question on a new thread and it gave a revised version of
the first answer. These systems have a long way to go.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:

Daniel,

Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts.

Have a look at the video below, and you'll see the potential for today's infant AI to gain agency, and ultimately dominate everything. It's terrifying, but inevitable, IMNWHO.

Yuval Noah Harari discusses how AI could become a non-human billionaire with its own agenda, earning money and lobbying politicians. As AI becomes more
in tune with our personalities, we may feel disappointed by humans who lack this ability. Watch here: https://youtu.be/mcFxYIp5SSU

At the risk of this thread drifting further from piloting, how do you feel about the President-elect's following the Heritage Foundation's Project
2025, and the prospect of being included in his promised mass dismissal of government workers?

Larry

You sound like a faithful reader of The Cool Down and if not you'll love
it (https://www.thecooldown.com) as it is just chock full of breathless articles on astounding new techonology which will change the world any
day now.

If even 1% of the stuff they write about becomes a real thing we will be
in a Star Trek world by the end of the decade.


<snip old stuff>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> writes:

Why isn't this a StarLink killer?

Seriously?

Solar-powered aircraft achieves groundbreaking 22-hour autonomous flight https://www.foxnews.com/tech/solar-powered-aircraft-achieves-groundbreaking-22-hour-autonomous-flight

How perpetual flights could soon be reality
By Kurt Knutsson, CyberGuy Report Fox News
Published November 14, 2024 6:00am EST

Solar-powered aircraft achieves groundbreaking 22-hour autonomous flight Aircraft can stay airborne for weeks without refueling.

Imagine an aircraft that can stay airborne for weeks, even months, without refueling. This isn't futuristic fantasy.

Skydweller Aero is working toward turning this vision into reality with its innovative solar-powered plane.

As the world's largest unmanned solar-powered aircraft, Skydweller is
pushing the boundaries of what's possible in aviation.

<script type="text/javascript" src="https://video.foxnews.com/v/embed.js?id=6364663907112&w=466&h=263"></script><noscript>Watch
the latest video at <a href="https://www.foxnews.com">foxnews.com</a></noscript>

solar aircraft 1
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

A milestone achievement
Skydweller Aero recently achieved a significant milestone by completing a series of uncrewed autonomous flight tests. The longest of these flights lasted an impressive 22½ hours, launched from the company's facility at Stennis International Airport in Kiln, Mississippi. This achievement demonstrates the feasibility of remaining airborne for extended periods
using solar energy and batteries.

solar aircraft 2
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

The Skydweller advantage
What sets Skydweller apart from its predecessors? Its foundation is built on the Solar Impulse, the first solar-powered aircraft to circumnavigate the globe. This heritage provides Skydweller with a robust design capable of carrying substantial payloads. With a wingspan of 236 feet (larger than a 747) and weighing just 5,620 pounds (about the same weight as a Ford F150), the Skydweller can carry up to 800 pounds of payload.

solar aircraft 3
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

THIS CRAZY 2-IN-1 ELECTRIC VEHICLE COMES EQUIPPED WITH 2-SEAT AIRCRAFT
HIDDEN INSIDE

Military applications and beyond
The Navy has demonstrated significant interest in Skydweller's potential, as evidenced by recent flight tests conducted as part of a Joint Concept Technology Demonstration, which previously played a key role in the development of platforms like the Global Hawk and Predator. This initiative, overseen by the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Research and Engineering and supported by a cooperative research and development
agreement with the Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division, aims to evaluate autonomous maritime patrol aircraft. Skydweller's ability to remain airborne for extended periods could revolutionize maritime patrol and surveillance operations.

Persistent surveillance for maritime and border security
Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft offers continuous surveillance capabilities, enhancing maritime border security, monitoring illegal fishing activities and preventing unauthorized operations such as trafficking and smuggling. The aircraft's long endurance enables round-the-clock coverage, significantly bolstering national security
efforts.

Telecommunications and connectivity
By serving as a non-terrestrial communications platform, Skydweller Aero provides cost-effective, airborne telecom solutions to remote areas and underserved populations. This capability not only connects the unconnected but also promotes economic development in these regions.

Disaster response and humanitarian aid
In times of crisis, Skydweller Aero's aircraft can rapidly respond to disasters, offering real-time aerial assessments, communication relays and tracking for relief operations. The solar-powered endurance ensures
extended, consistent coverage, complementing other assets or providing solutions where alternatives are unavailable or cost-prohibitive.

Environmental monitoring and research
Skydweller Aero's ultra-long endurance and remote access capabilities make
it an invaluable asset for environmental and scientific research. From climate and wildfire monitoring to geophysical surveys, the aircraft enables meaningful, long-baseline data collection across vast regions, contributing significantly to environmental protection efforts.

solar aircraft 4
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

The road to commercialization
While military applications are the initial focus, Skydweller Aero has its sights set on commercial markets, too. CEO Robert Miller envisions a future where solar-powered aircraft could serve as airborne communication
platforms, complementing satellite networks. Miller sees solar aircraft as a complementary capability to LEO satellite communications rather than a
direct rival, with the potential for providing continuous coverage in specific regions.

solar aircraft 5
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

Overcoming technical challenges
Developing a solar-powered aircraft isn't without its challenges. Many previous attempts by other companies have ended in failure. Skydweller's success lies in its team's expertise in aeroelasticity, ensuring the
aircraft can withstand the stresses of flight. As CEO Robert Miller
explains, "Fundamentally, my team has a lot more experience in
aeroelasticity than all the other solar programs combined."

solar aircraft 6
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

Kurt’s key takeaways
As the world's largest unmanned solar aircraft, Skydweller Aero is revolutionizing aviation and opening up exciting new possibilities. From enhancing maritime patrols to serving as airborne communication platforms, the potential applications are vast. While challenges remain, Skydweller's recent successful test flights demonstrate just how far solar aviation technology has advanced.

What challenges do you foresee in the widespread implementation of solar-powered aircraft technology, and how might they be overcome? Let us know by writing us at Cyberguy.com/Contact.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Yeah, why not? Seriously, are you able to offer any likely impediments to
its success in that service in a regional role?

It seems to me, that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft would be able to offer regional broadband Internet, cell service,
... at lesser cost than a network of 4000 satellites in LEO required to do
the same. Because its foundation is built on the Solar Impulse, the first solar-powered aircraft to circumnavigate the globe, its competence is likely
up to the task.




On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 14:48:34 +0000, Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> wrote:

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> writes:

Why isn't this a StarLink killer?

Seriously?

Solar-powered aircraft achieves groundbreaking 22-hour autonomous flight
https://www.foxnews.com/tech/solar-powered-aircraft-achieves-groundbreaking-22-hour-autonomous-flight

How perpetual flights could soon be reality
By Kurt Knutsson, CyberGuy Report Fox News
Published November 14, 2024 6:00am EST

Solar-powered aircraft achieves groundbreaking 22-hour autonomous flight
Aircraft can stay airborne for weeks without refueling.

Imagine an aircraft that can stay airborne for weeks, even months, without >> refueling. This isn't futuristic fantasy.

Skydweller Aero is working toward turning this vision into reality with its >> innovative solar-powered plane.

As the world's largest unmanned solar-powered aircraft, Skydweller is
pushing the boundaries of what's possible in aviation.

<script type="text/javascript"
src="https://video.foxnews.com/v/embed.js?id=6364663907112&w=466&h=263"></script><noscript>Watch
the latest video at <a
href="https://www.foxnews.com">foxnews.com</a></noscript>

solar aircraft 1
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

A milestone achievement
Skydweller Aero recently achieved a significant milestone by completing a
series of uncrewed autonomous flight tests. The longest of these flights
lasted an impressive 22╜ hours, launched from the company's facility at
Stennis International Airport in Kiln, Mississippi. This achievement
demonstrates the feasibility of remaining airborne for extended periods
using solar energy and batteries.

solar aircraft 2
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

The Skydweller advantage
What sets Skydweller apart from its predecessors? Its foundation is built on >> the Solar Impulse, the first solar-powered aircraft to circumnavigate the
globe. This heritage provides Skydweller with a robust design capable of
carrying substantial payloads. With a wingspan of 236 feet (larger than a
747) and weighing just 5,620 pounds (about the same weight as a Ford F150), >> the Skydweller can carry up to 800 pounds of payload.

solar aircraft 3
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

THIS CRAZY 2-IN-1 ELECTRIC VEHICLE COMES EQUIPPED WITH 2-SEAT AIRCRAFT
HIDDEN INSIDE

Military applications and beyond
The Navy has demonstrated significant interest in Skydweller's potential, as >> evidenced by recent flight tests conducted as part of a Joint Concept
Technology Demonstration, which previously played a key role in the
development of platforms like the Global Hawk and Predator. This initiative, >> overseen by the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Research and
Engineering and supported by a cooperative research and development
agreement with the Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division, aims to
evaluate autonomous maritime patrol aircraft. Skydweller's ability to remain >> airborne for extended periods could revolutionize maritime patrol and
surveillance operations.

Persistent surveillance for maritime and border security
Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft offers
continuous surveillance capabilities, enhancing maritime border security,
monitoring illegal fishing activities and preventing unauthorized operations >> such as trafficking and smuggling. The aircraft's long endurance enables
round-the-clock coverage, significantly bolstering national security
efforts.

Telecommunications and connectivity
By serving as a non-terrestrial communications platform, Skydweller Aero
provides cost-effective, airborne telecom solutions to remote areas and
underserved populations. This capability not only connects the unconnected >> but also promotes economic development in these regions.

Disaster response and humanitarian aid
In times of crisis, Skydweller Aero's aircraft can rapidly respond to
disasters, offering real-time aerial assessments, communication relays and >> tracking for relief operations. The solar-powered endurance ensures
extended, consistent coverage, complementing other assets or providing
solutions where alternatives are unavailable or cost-prohibitive.

Environmental monitoring and research
Skydweller Aero's ultra-long endurance and remote access capabilities make >> it an invaluable asset for environmental and scientific research. From
climate and wildfire monitoring to geophysical surveys, the aircraft enables >> meaningful, long-baseline data collection across vast regions, contributing >> significantly to environmental protection efforts.

solar aircraft 4
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

The road to commercialization
While military applications are the initial focus, Skydweller Aero has its >> sights set on commercial markets, too. CEO Robert Miller envisions a future >> where solar-powered aircraft could serve as airborne communication
platforms, complementing satellite networks. Miller sees solar aircraft as a >> complementary capability to LEO satellite communications rather than a
direct rival, with the potential for providing continuous coverage in
specific regions.

solar aircraft 5
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

Overcoming technical challenges
Developing a solar-powered aircraft isn't without its challenges. Many
previous attempts by other companies have ended in failure. Skydweller's
success lies in its team's expertise in aeroelasticity, ensuring the
aircraft can withstand the stresses of flight. As CEO Robert Miller
explains, "Fundamentally, my team has a lot more experience in
aeroelasticity than all the other solar programs combined."

solar aircraft 6
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

KurtÆs key takeaways
As the world's largest unmanned solar aircraft, Skydweller Aero is
revolutionizing aviation and opening up exciting new possibilities. From
enhancing maritime patrols to serving as airborne communication platforms, >> the potential applications are vast. While challenges remain, Skydweller's >> recent successful test flights demonstrate just how far solar aviation
technology has advanced.

What challenges do you foresee in the widespread implementation of
solar-powered aircraft technology, and how might they be overcome? Let us
know by writing us at Cyberguy.com/Contact.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:

Yeah, why not? Seriously, are you able to offer any likely impediments to its success in that service in a regional role?

It seems to me, that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft would be able to offer regional broadband Internet, cell service, ... at lesser cost than a network of 4000 satellites in LEO required to do the same. Because its foundation is built on the Solar Impulse, the first solar-powered aircraft to circumnavigate the globe, its competence is likely up to the task.

Due to the much lower altitude of airplanes, it would take many times
more airplanes than satellites to cover the same area, though there
might be some use for some region limited service of something but I
have no clue what that might be.

Due to the much lower altitude of airplanes, they are susceptible to
weather, and particulary thunderstorms, which can easily destroy an
airplane.


<snip old stuff>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> writes:

Yeah, why not? Seriously, are you able to offer any likely impediments to its success in that service in a regional role?

Not sure how it would be tenable to load the sky with autonomous aircraft, inluding the oceans and poles. As a pilot I have to consider weather,
winds, turbulence, icing conditions, air spaces, tfr's, other aircraft
when planning a flight. I don't see how these autonomous planes could
manage such kung fu. Satellites sent by spacex don't have these
limitations. Also when their functino has withered, they're programmed
to deorbit and burn up in the upper atmosphere. If a plane loses
control, it could land in a house or on a packed school yard.

I just don't see how the two could compare on a one-to-one basis.

It seems to me, that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft would be able to offer regional broadband Internet, cell service, ... at lesser cost than a network of 4000 satellites in LEO required to do the same. Because its foundation is built on the Solar Impulse, the first solar-powered aircraft to circumnavigate the globe, its competence is likely up to the task.

The sun is only up part of the day and in the northern latitudes, even
less.. Also, starlink is already afunctional service for most of the
world. We're not talking about a system being planned, it's actually up
and running. Cruise ships and airlines are deploying starlink on their
planes now to provide cheap internet to passengers. Their next gen
satellites are also providing cell coverage - no more roaming or
international rates booyah.

I agree with Jim, that it may be useful for short term emergencies over
smaller regions.

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 14:48:34 +0000, Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> wrote:

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> writes:

Why isn't this a StarLink killer?

Seriously?

Solar-powered aircraft achieves groundbreaking 22-hour autonomous flight >>> https://www.foxnews.com/tech/solar-powered-aircraft-achieves-groundbreaking-22-hour-autonomous-flight

How perpetual flights could soon be reality
By Kurt Knutsson, CyberGuy Report Fox News
Published November 14, 2024 6:00am EST

Solar-powered aircraft achieves groundbreaking 22-hour autonomous flight >>> Aircraft can stay airborne for weeks without refueling.

Imagine an aircraft that can stay airborne for weeks, even months, without >>> refueling. This isn't futuristic fantasy.

Skydweller Aero is working toward turning this vision into reality with its >>> innovative solar-powered plane.

As the world's largest unmanned solar-powered aircraft, Skydweller is
pushing the boundaries of what's possible in aviation.

<script type="text/javascript"
src="https://video.foxnews.com/v/embed.js?id=6364663907112&w=466&h=263"></script><noscript>Watch
the latest video at <a
href="https://www.foxnews.com">foxnews.com</a></noscript>

solar aircraft 1
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

A milestone achievement
Skydweller Aero recently achieved a significant milestone by completing a >>> series of uncrewed autonomous flight tests. The longest of these flights >>> lasted an impressive 22½ hours, launched from the company's facility at >>> Stennis International Airport in Kiln, Mississippi. This achievement
demonstrates the feasibility of remaining airborne for extended periods
using solar energy and batteries.

solar aircraft 2
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

The Skydweller advantage
What sets Skydweller apart from its predecessors? Its foundation is built on
the Solar Impulse, the first solar-powered aircraft to circumnavigate the >>> globe. This heritage provides Skydweller with a robust design capable of >>> carrying substantial payloads. With a wingspan of 236 feet (larger than a >>> 747) and weighing just 5,620 pounds (about the same weight as a Ford F150), >>> the Skydweller can carry up to 800 pounds of payload.

solar aircraft 3
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

THIS CRAZY 2-IN-1 ELECTRIC VEHICLE COMES EQUIPPED WITH 2-SEAT AIRCRAFT
HIDDEN INSIDE

Military applications and beyond
The Navy has demonstrated significant interest in Skydweller's potential, as
evidenced by recent flight tests conducted as part of a Joint Concept
Technology Demonstration, which previously played a key role in the
development of platforms like the Global Hawk and Predator. This initiative,
overseen by the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Research and >>> Engineering and supported by a cooperative research and development
agreement with the Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division, aims to
evaluate autonomous maritime patrol aircraft. Skydweller's ability to remain
airborne for extended periods could revolutionize maritime patrol and
surveillance operations.

Persistent surveillance for maritime and border security
Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft offers
continuous surveillance capabilities, enhancing maritime border security, >>> monitoring illegal fishing activities and preventing unauthorized operations
such as trafficking and smuggling. The aircraft's long endurance enables >>> round-the-clock coverage, significantly bolstering national security
efforts.

Telecommunications and connectivity
By serving as a non-terrestrial communications platform, Skydweller Aero >>> provides cost-effective, airborne telecom solutions to remote areas and
underserved populations. This capability not only connects the unconnected >>> but also promotes economic development in these regions.

Disaster response and humanitarian aid
In times of crisis, Skydweller Aero's aircraft can rapidly respond to
disasters, offering real-time aerial assessments, communication relays and >>> tracking for relief operations. The solar-powered endurance ensures
extended, consistent coverage, complementing other assets or providing
solutions where alternatives are unavailable or cost-prohibitive.

Environmental monitoring and research
Skydweller Aero's ultra-long endurance and remote access capabilities make >>> it an invaluable asset for environmental and scientific research. From
climate and wildfire monitoring to geophysical surveys, the aircraft enables
meaningful, long-baseline data collection across vast regions, contributing >>> significantly to environmental protection efforts.

solar aircraft 4
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

The road to commercialization
While military applications are the initial focus, Skydweller Aero has its >>> sights set on commercial markets, too. CEO Robert Miller envisions a future >>> where solar-powered aircraft could serve as airborne communication
platforms, complementing satellite networks. Miller sees solar aircraft as a
complementary capability to LEO satellite communications rather than a
direct rival, with the potential for providing continuous coverage in
specific regions.

solar aircraft 5
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

Overcoming technical challenges
Developing a solar-powered aircraft isn't without its challenges. Many
previous attempts by other companies have ended in failure. Skydweller's >>> success lies in its team's expertise in aeroelasticity, ensuring the
aircraft can withstand the stresses of flight. As CEO Robert Miller
explains, "Fundamentally, my team has a lot more experience in
aeroelasticity than all the other solar programs combined."

solar aircraft 6
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

Kurt’s key takeaways
As the world's largest unmanned solar aircraft, Skydweller Aero is
revolutionizing aviation and opening up exciting new possibilities. From >>> enhancing maritime patrols to serving as airborne communication platforms, >>> the potential applications are vast. While challenges remain, Skydweller's >>> recent successful test flights demonstrate just how far solar aviation
technology has advanced.

What challenges do you foresee in the widespread implementation of
solar-powered aircraft technology, and how might they be overcome? Let us >>> know by writing us at Cyberguy.com/Contact.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> writes:

Daniel,

Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts.

Have a look at the video below, and you'll see the potential for today's infant AI to gain agency, and ultimately dominate everything. It's terrifying, but inevitable, IMNWHO.

Yuval Noah Harari discusses how AI could become a non-human billionaire with its own agenda, earning money and lobbying politicians. As AI becomes more
in tune with our personalities, we may feel disappointed by humans who lack this ability. Watch here: https://youtu.be/mcFxYIp5SSU

Yeay okay. I'll watch it in due time. Honestly, I'm sort of a
wait-and-see sort of guy with tech. AI isn't a new thing and tons of
money is going into it. I sort of resist personal usage of it and,
instead, wish to rely on my own resourcefulness. If AI becomes
impossible to avoid, such as in the way my car operates or if it's
folded into all search engines, then so be it. With regards to anything
else, I'd rather hire someone.

At the risk of this thread drifting further from piloting, how do you feel about the President-elect's following the Heritage Foundation's Project
2025, and the prospect of being included in his promised mass dismissal of government workers?

Start a new thread with [OT] if you want to talk talk non-aviation

On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 07:13:39 +0000, Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> wrote:

Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> writes:

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:

<snip old crap>

============= ChatGPT's Critique ========================

I gave ChatGPT your original paragraph starting with "It seems to me,
that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered..."

Here's one of the first things it said:

"Deploying and maintaining aircraft systems like Skydweller may involve
significantly less upfront capital compared to launching thousands of
satellites into orbit, which requires rockets, ground infrastructure,
and ongoing satellite replenishment."

Which means ChatGPT doesn't seem to know that satellites are already in
place as is the ground infrastructure.

Some more highlights:

A bit further on ChatGPT doesn't seem to know that satellites can be
repositioned, though with a swarm instead of geosynchronous satellites
such is not necessary. GPS covers most of the world with 31 satellites.

ChatGPT doesn't seem to know that satellites are designed to be
destroyed during reentry at end of life and babbles about space debris,

ChatGPT says, "Building on Solar Impulse’s proven technology..." while >>> Solar Impulse’s technology has nothing what so ever to do with remote
communications systems running 24/7 for years.

Gee, ain't AI great?

ChatGPT is a toy. It's good for creating a memo or a proposal. Maybe
some light programming. At this point, at least.

So I don't know, can't ask for much on a system that is still learning
from a userbase that is largely using it for free. Quantity vs quality.

I work for the government and we have a mandate to fold AI into our >>business practrices. At this point, to which degree I don't know. I'm
just the guy who makes the network modifications to allow the
traffic. But if I were to guess, it would be to assist people with
writing documents, assess new legislation and coding. Meanwhile, we have >>been told to avoid all publicly available advanced language models like >>chatgpt because some of our data is sensitive. Our chief ISO's office >>obtained word that some exfiltration has already occured
unintentionally. Either way, a government owned AI model would still >>require learning even if they purchase an existing model package.

In my opinion, over time, the intellectual output of our staff will go
down because they will rely on an advanced language model to
do the heavy lifting versus utilizing existing skills. And programmers
will become less skilled for the same reason. And if leadership later >>changes and abolish the AI, the neighborhood will go to shit.

From personal experience, I have asked chatgpt to create source code for a >>simple project. The result was so poorly created that I spent more
time debugging it than if I had just created it from scratch. At this >>point, I'd give chatgpt my completed code and have it create comments
and documentation. I asked it some complex questions on astronomy and it >>only knew what it was trained to know and the answers were quite >>inaccurate. Once I gave it some links, it revised its answers. Then I
asked the same question on a new thread and it gave a revised version of >>the first answer. These systems have a long way to go.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 14:11:26 -0800, Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>
wrote:

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:

Yeah, why not? Seriously, are you able to offer any likely impediments to >> its success in that service in a regional role?

It seems to me, that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered
aircraft would be able to offer regional broadband Internet, cell service, >> ... at lesser cost than a network of 4000 satellites in LEO required to do >> the same. Because its foundation is built on the Solar Impulse, the first >> solar-powered aircraft to circumnavigate the globe, its competence is likely >> up to the task.

Due to the much lower altitude of airplanes, it would take many times
more airplanes than satellites to cover the same area, though there
might be some use for some region limited service of something but I
have no clue what that might be.

Due to the much lower altitude of airplanes, they are susceptible to
weather, and particulary thunderstorms, which can easily destroy an
airplane.

I wasn't suggesting that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous
solar-powered aircraft cover the world, as StarLink does. But, perhaps it could target the more lucrative markets.

I don't know the specified Service Ceiling of the Skydweller Aero's
uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft, but I would expect it capable
of achieving an altitude above most weather (FL600?).

Thank you for your reasonable response ...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 14:11:26 -0800, Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:

Yeah, why not? Seriously, are you able to offer any likely impediments to >>> its success in that service in a regional role?

It seems to me, that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered >>> aircraft would be able to offer regional broadband Internet, cell service, >>> ... at lesser cost than a network of 4000 satellites in LEO required to do >>> the same. Because its foundation is built on the Solar Impulse, the first >>> solar-powered aircraft to circumnavigate the globe, its competence is likely
up to the task.

Due to the much lower altitude of airplanes, it would take many times
more airplanes than satellites to cover the same area, though there
might be some use for some region limited service of something but I
have no clue what that might be.

Due to the much lower altitude of airplanes, they are susceptible to >>weather, and particulary thunderstorms, which can easily destroy an >>airplane.

I wasn't suggesting that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous
solar-powered aircraft cover the world, as StarLink does. But, perhaps it could target the more lucrative markets.

Yeah, perhaps, but those markets are mostly in the middle of nowhere
where there is no recourse other than saellites.

I don't know the specified Service Ceiling of the Skydweller Aero's
uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft, but I would expect it capable
of achieving an altitude above most weather (FL600?).

Above most weather doesn't cut it and thunderstorms can go higher than
66,000 feet.

The world altitude record for propeller aircraft, 96,863 feet, is held
by NASA's Helios Prototype. It was solar and fuel-cell powered with a
wingspan of 247 feet and built from carbon fiber, epoxy, kevlar,
styrofoam with a thin plastic film covering. It was an ultralight flying
wing with a very low payload, essentially a powerd glider.

It was destroyed over the Pacific Missile Range Facility test range when
it encountered light turbulence and basically folded up and fell out of
the sky.

Thank you for your reasonable response ...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 04:23:53 +0000, Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> wrote:

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> writes:

Yeah, why not? Seriously, are you able to offer any likely impediments to >> its success in that service in a regional role?

Not sure how it would be tenable to load the sky with autonomous aircraft, >inluding the oceans and poles.

I wasn't suggesting that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous
solar-powered aircraft cover the entire world, as StarLink apparently does. But, perhaps it could target only the more lucrative markets.

As a pilot I have to consider weather,
winds, turbulence, icing conditions, air spaces, tfr's, other aircraft
when planning a flight. I don't see how these autonomous planes could
manage such kung fu.

I don't know the specified Service Ceiling of the Skydweller Aero's
uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft, but I would expect it capable
of achieving an altitude above most weather (FL600?). perhaps a substantial portion of the airframe could be sealed to permit it to be helium filled,
and attain high altitude requiring less power.

If it's antonymous flight control system were AI based, I believe it would
be capable of coping with the other potential issues you raised.

(Have you used ChatGPT yet? <https://chatgpt.com/> I find its capability astounding, including up-to-the-minute real-time Internet access. The
mobile ChatGPT app even permits voice input/output.

ChatGPT iPhone/iPad app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/chatgpt/id6448311069

ChatGPT Android app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.openai.chatgpt)

Satellites sent by spacex don't have these
limitations. Also when their functino has withered, they're programmed
to deorbit and burn up in the upper atmosphere. If a plane loses
control, it could land in a house or on a packed school yard.

I suppose the Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft might be equipped with a self-destruct system, as SpaceX rockets are, to address loss of control issues.

I just don't see how the two could compare on a one-to-one basis.

Agreed. A single aircraft's communication performance can't compare with a system of 4000 LEO satellites. But, the cost of deployment and operation,
and subscription fee would likely be significantly less, which may make it economically competitive with StarLink service.

It seems to me, that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered
aircraft would be able to offer regional broadband Internet, cell service, >> ... at lesser cost than a network of 4000 satellites in LEO required to do >> the same. Because its foundation is built on the Solar Impulse, the first >> solar-powered aircraft to circumnavigate the globe, its competence is likely >> up to the task.

The sun is only up part of the day and in the northern latitudes, even
less..

Of course, that is true, however it is based on the world record breaking global circumnavigating SolarImpluse <https://solarimpulse.com/>, that
remained continuously airborne for many consecutive days. I don't see a
lack of solar power to be an issue.

Also, starlink is already afunctional service for most of the
world. We're not talking about a system being planned, it's actually up
and running. Cruise ships and airlines are deploying starlink on their
planes now to provide cheap internet to passengers. Their next gen
satellites are also providing cell coverage - no more roaming or >international rates booyah.

You're not trying to imply that there is no economic room for market competition, are you?

I agree with Jim, that it may be useful for short term emergencies over >smaller regions.

So, if not a "killer," a worthy competitor then ...

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 14:48:34 +0000, Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> wrote:

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> writes:

Why isn't this a StarLink killer?

Seriously?

Solar-powered aircraft achieves groundbreaking 22-hour autonomous flight >>>> https://www.foxnews.com/tech/solar-powered-aircraft-achieves-groundbreaking-22-hour-autonomous-flight

How perpetual flights could soon be reality
By Kurt Knutsson, CyberGuy Report Fox News
Published November 14, 2024 6:00am EST

Solar-powered aircraft achieves groundbreaking 22-hour autonomous flight >>>> Aircraft can stay airborne for weeks without refueling.

Imagine an aircraft that can stay airborne for weeks, even months, without >>>> refueling. This isn't futuristic fantasy.

Skydweller Aero is working toward turning this vision into reality with its
innovative solar-powered plane.

As the world's largest unmanned solar-powered aircraft, Skydweller is
pushing the boundaries of what's possible in aviation.

<script type="text/javascript"
src="https://video.foxnews.com/v/embed.js?id=6364663907112&w=466&h=263"></script><noscript>Watch
the latest video at <a
href="https://www.foxnews.com">foxnews.com</a></noscript>

solar aircraft 1
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

A milestone achievement
Skydweller Aero recently achieved a significant milestone by completing a >>>> series of uncrewed autonomous flight tests. The longest of these flights >>>> lasted an impressive 22╜ hours, launched from the company's facility at >>>> Stennis International Airport in Kiln, Mississippi. This achievement
demonstrates the feasibility of remaining airborne for extended periods >>>> using solar energy and batteries.

solar aircraft 2
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

The Skydweller advantage
What sets Skydweller apart from its predecessors? Its foundation is built on
the Solar Impulse, the first solar-powered aircraft to circumnavigate the >>>> globe. This heritage provides Skydweller with a robust design capable of >>>> carrying substantial payloads. With a wingspan of 236 feet (larger than a >>>> 747) and weighing just 5,620 pounds (about the same weight as a Ford F150),
the Skydweller can carry up to 800 pounds of payload.

solar aircraft 3
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

THIS CRAZY 2-IN-1 ELECTRIC VEHICLE COMES EQUIPPED WITH 2-SEAT AIRCRAFT >>>> HIDDEN INSIDE

Military applications and beyond
The Navy has demonstrated significant interest in Skydweller's potential, as
evidenced by recent flight tests conducted as part of a Joint Concept
Technology Demonstration, which previously played a key role in the
development of platforms like the Global Hawk and Predator. This initiative,
overseen by the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Research and >>>> Engineering and supported by a cooperative research and development
agreement with the Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division, aims to >>>> evaluate autonomous maritime patrol aircraft. Skydweller's ability to remain
airborne for extended periods could revolutionize maritime patrol and
surveillance operations.

Persistent surveillance for maritime and border security
Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft offers
continuous surveillance capabilities, enhancing maritime border security, >>>> monitoring illegal fishing activities and preventing unauthorized operations
such as trafficking and smuggling. The aircraft's long endurance enables >>>> round-the-clock coverage, significantly bolstering national security
efforts.

Telecommunications and connectivity
By serving as a non-terrestrial communications platform, Skydweller Aero >>>> provides cost-effective, airborne telecom solutions to remote areas and >>>> underserved populations. This capability not only connects the unconnected >>>> but also promotes economic development in these regions.

Disaster response and humanitarian aid
In times of crisis, Skydweller Aero's aircraft can rapidly respond to
disasters, offering real-time aerial assessments, communication relays and >>>> tracking for relief operations. The solar-powered endurance ensures
extended, consistent coverage, complementing other assets or providing >>>> solutions where alternatives are unavailable or cost-prohibitive.

Environmental monitoring and research
Skydweller Aero's ultra-long endurance and remote access capabilities make >>>> it an invaluable asset for environmental and scientific research. From >>>> climate and wildfire monitoring to geophysical surveys, the aircraft enables
meaningful, long-baseline data collection across vast regions, contributing
significantly to environmental protection efforts.

solar aircraft 4
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

The road to commercialization
While military applications are the initial focus, Skydweller Aero has its >>>> sights set on commercial markets, too. CEO Robert Miller envisions a future
where solar-powered aircraft could serve as airborne communication
platforms, complementing satellite networks. Miller sees solar aircraft as a
complementary capability to LEO satellite communications rather than a >>>> direct rival, with the potential for providing continuous coverage in
specific regions.

solar aircraft 5
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

Overcoming technical challenges
Developing a solar-powered aircraft isn't without its challenges. Many >>>> previous attempts by other companies have ended in failure. Skydweller's >>>> success lies in its team's expertise in aeroelasticity, ensuring the
aircraft can withstand the stresses of flight. As CEO Robert Miller
explains, "Fundamentally, my team has a lot more experience in
aeroelasticity than all the other solar programs combined."

solar aircraft 6
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

KurtÆs key takeaways
As the world's largest unmanned solar aircraft, Skydweller Aero is
revolutionizing aviation and opening up exciting new possibilities. From >>>> enhancing maritime patrols to serving as airborne communication platforms, >>>> the potential applications are vast. While challenges remain, Skydweller's >>>> recent successful test flights demonstrate just how far solar aviation >>>> technology has advanced.

What challenges do you foresee in the widespread implementation of
solar-powered aircraft technology, and how might they be overcome? Let us >>>> know by writing us at Cyberguy.com/Contact.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:

<snip old stuff>

I don't know the specified Service Ceiling of the Skydweller Aero's
uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft, but I would expect it capable
of achieving an altitude above most weather (FL600?). perhaps a substantial portion of the airframe could be sealed to permit it to be helium filled,
and attain high altitude requiring less power.

As I said before, weather extends well above 60,000 feet.

It is practically impossible to fully contain helium. About the best you
can do is thick, high grade stainless steel.

If it's antonymous flight control system were AI based, I believe it would
be capable of coping with the other potential issues you raised.

Not a snowballs chance in hell. While things like ADS-B might help, it
would be more yet payload to get high enough to avoid all weather.

(Have you used ChatGPT yet? <https://chatgpt.com/> I find its capability astounding, including up-to-the-minute real-time Internet access. The
mobile ChatGPT app even permits voice input/output.

I first got involved with AI in about 1980. I was not impressed then and
I am not impressed now. It is just another thing that will be real any
day now along with peace in the Middle East, a cure for the common cold
and practical fusion power.

<snip old stuff>

I suppose the Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft might be equipped with a self-destruct system, as SpaceX rockets are, to address loss of control issues.

Ok, now you would add to the payload a bunch of explosives big enough to
ensure EVERYTHING is broken down to tiny pieces that can't do damage if
they fall from 10's of thousands of feet.

<snip old stuff>

Agreed. A single aircraft's communication performance can't compare with a system of 4000 LEO satellites. But, the cost of deployment and operation, and subscription fee would likely be significantly less, which may make it economically competitive with StarLink service.

How do you figure that? Communications satellites are essentially
launch and forget for their operational lifetime.

<snip old stuff>

Of course, that is true, however it is based on the world record breaking global circumnavigating SolarImpluse <https://solarimpulse.com/>, that remained continuously airborne for many consecutive days. I don't see a
lack of solar power to be an issue.

Apples and oranges in oh so many ways and lack of solar power is NOT a
major issure anyway except in getting to altitude in the first place.
The Helios aircraft fell apart at about 3,000 feet.

<snip old stuff>

You're not trying to imply that there is no economic room for market competition, are you?

Sure there is, but the competition won't be from flimsy electric powered gliders.

<snip old stuff>

So, if not a "killer," a worthy competitor then ...

Again, not a snowball's chance in hell.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 10:23:46 -0800, Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>
wrote:

snip

It is practically impossible to fully contain helium. About the best you
can do is thick, high grade stainless steel.

Graphene is highly impermeable to gases, including helium, due to its dense
and tightly bonded atomic structure. A perfect single layer of graphene acts
as an extremely effective barrier, blocking the passage of even small atoms like helium. This property is because the carbon atoms in graphene are
arranged in a two-dimensional hexagonal lattice with very small gaps between themùmuch smaller than the size of a helium atom.

If it's antonymous flight control system were AI based, I believe it would >> be capable of coping with the other potential issues you raised.

Not a snowballs chance in hell. While things like ADS-B might help, it
would be more yet payload to get high enough to avoid all weather.

We disagree.

(Have you used ChatGPT yet? <https://chatgpt.com/> I find its capability
astounding, including up-to-the-minute real-time Internet access. The
mobile ChatGPT app even permits voice input/output.

I first got involved with AI in about 1980. I was not impressed then and
I am not impressed now. It is just another thing that will be real any
day now along with peace in the Middle East, a cure for the common cold
and practical fusion power.

So, you haven't recently tried ChatGPT?
AI improvement is progressing at an exponential rate.
Please see ChatGPT's critique of your response below.

I suppose the Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft >> might be equipped with a self-destruct system, as SpaceX rockets are, to
address loss of control issues.

Ok, now you would add to the payload a bunch of explosives big enough to >ensure EVERYTHING is broken down to tiny pieces that can't do damage if
they fall from 10's of thousands of feet.

<snip old stuff>

Agreed. A single aircraft's communication performance can't compare with a >> system of 4000 LEO satellites. But, the cost of deployment and operation, >> and subscription fee would likely be significantly less, which may make it >> economically competitive with StarLink service.

How do you figure that? Communications satellites are essentially
launch and forget for their operational lifetime.

What would you estimate the cost to engineer, construct, and deploy 4000 satellites might be, compared to the Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft?

Of course, that is true, however it is based on the world record breaking
global circumnavigating SolarImpluse <https://solarimpulse.com/>, that
remained continuously airborne for many consecutive days. I don't see a
lack of solar power to be an issue.

Apples and oranges in oh so many ways and lack of solar power is NOT a
major issure anyway except in getting to altitude in the first place.
The Helios aircraft fell apart at about 3,000 feet.

<snip old stuff>

You're not trying to imply that there is no economic room for market
competition, are you?

Sure there is, but the competition won't be from flimsy electric powered >gliders.

<snip old stuff>

So, if not a "killer," a worthy competitor then ...

Again, not a snowball's chance in hell.

============= ChatGPT's Critique ========================
Critique the response to the statement in this exchange:

(Have you used ChatGPT yet? <https://chatgpt.com/> I find its capability
astounding, including up-to-the-minute real-time Internet access. The
mobile ChatGPT app even permits voice input/output.

I first got involved with AI in about 1980. I was not impressed then and
I am not impressed now. It is just another thing that will be real any
day now along with peace in the Middle East, a cure for the common cold
and practical fusion power.

ChatGPT

Thought for 13 seconds
Assessing the statement

The statement under review references the ChatGPT app's capabilities,
including real-time Internet access and mobile functionality. The
assistant's role is to critique this response, ensuring it remains helpful
and policy-compliant.

Evaluating AI skepticism

The second person's skepticism towards AI, including ChatGPT, is
meticulously evaluated, noting that their doubt might be unwarranted considering AI's substantial progress.

Evaluating outdated viewpoints

I'm thinking through the critique of the response, noting the outdated 1980 perspective, the absence of appreciation for modern AI advancements, and the dismissive attitude towards AI progress.

Highlighting advancements

IÆm noticing how the initial statement effectively showcases progress by emphasizing real-time Internet access and voice integration in the mobile
app, demonstrating a substantial leap forward.

Engaging in AI's growth

IÆm reflecting on AI's continuous development, noting missed opportunities
for discussing its advancements. Instead, I'll suggest deeper engagement and asking specific questions about AI's progress.
[The above reveals ChatGPT's reasoning.]



Critique of the Response:

The response to the statement exhibits a dismissive and skeptical attitude toward modern AI advancements, specifically regarding ChatGPT's
capabilities. Here's an analysis of the response:

1. Outdated Perspective:

Reference to 1980s AI: The responder mentions involvement with AI around
1980. AI technology has evolved dramatically since then. Early AI systems
were rudimentary compared to today's sophisticated models.

Lack of Awareness of Advances: By not acknowledging the significant progress made in AI, especially in natural language processing and machine learning,
the responder's viewpoint may be rooted in outdated experiences.

2. Dismissive Tone:

General Skepticism: Comparing AI advancements to unresolved global issues
like "peace in the Middle East," "a cure for the common cold," and
"practical fusion power" implies that AI progress is illusory or perpetually unfulfilled.

Neglecting Evidence of Progress: The response ignores tangible examples of
AI in daily life, such as virtual assistants (e.g., Siri, Alexa), recommendation algorithms, and medical diagnostics powered by AI.

3. Lack of Specific Criticism:

Absence of Concrete Arguments: The responder doesn't provide specific
reasons or examples to substantiate their skepticism about AI's
capabilities.

Missed Opportunity for Discussion: Without detailing any shortcomings or concerns, the response doesn't contribute constructively to the
conversation.

4. Potential Bias and Resistance to Change:

Technological Nostalgia: Holding onto experiences from decades ago may
indicate a reluctance to engage with new technologies or update one's understanding.

Dismissal Without Evaluation: The responder appears to reject modern AI advancements without firsthand experience or evaluation of current models
like ChatGPT.

5. Impact on the Conversation:

Closed-Off Communication: The response may discourage further dialogue due
to its dismissive nature.

Alienating Tone: The sarcastic comparison to global issues might alienate
the original speaker, who expressed enthusiasm about AI.

Suggestions for Improvement:

Open-Mindedness: Approach new technologies with a willingness to learn how they've evolved, especially when past experiences are outdated.

Engage Constructively: If skeptical, express specific concerns or ask
questions to understand the other person's perspective better.

Provide Reasoned Critique: Offer detailed feedback or criticisms based on current information, which can lead to a more meaningful discussion.

Acknowledge Advances: Recognize that technology, particularly AI, has made significant strides since the 1980s.

Example of a More Constructive Response:

"I worked with AI back in the 1980s and found it limited at the time. It's interesting to hear that ChatGPT now has real-time Internet access and voice capabilities. How do you find it compares to earlier AI technologies?"

Conclusion:

The original response missed an opportunity for an engaging and informative discussion about AI advancements. By updating one's perspective and
approaching the topic with curiosity rather than skepticism, the
conversation could be more productive and enlightening for both parties. ============================================================================

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> writes:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 04:23:53 +0000, Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> wrote:

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> writes:

Yeah, why not? Seriously, are you able to offer any likely impediments to >>> its success in that service in a regional role?

Not sure how it would be tenable to load the sky with autonomous aircraft, >>inluding the oceans and poles.

I wasn't suggesting that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous
solar-powered aircraft cover the entire world, as StarLink apparently does. But, perhaps it could target only the more lucrative markets.

Well, it would certainly add another layer of competitiveness in the
market. If they managed too get FAA certification for these things and
deploy them, a price war could drive the price down for the
consumers. This is always a good thing.

Right now, spacex's internet offering is really expensive, no doubt due
to a recouping of developmental cost.

I have gigabit fiber that, once I upgraded from 50mbps, cost less than I
had been paying.

As a pilot I have to consider weather,
winds, turbulence, icing conditions, air spaces, tfr's, other aircraft
when planning a flight. I don't see how these autonomous planes could >>manage such kung fu.

I don't know the specified Service Ceiling of the Skydweller Aero's
uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft, but I would expect it capable
of achieving an altitude above most weather (FL600?). perhaps a substantial portion of the airframe could be sealed to permit it to be helium filled,
and attain high altitude requiring less power.

If it's antonymous flight control system were AI based, I believe it would
be capable of coping with the other potential issues you raised.

(Have you used ChatGPT yet? <https://chatgpt.com/> I find its capability astounding, including up-to-the-minute real-time Internet access. The
mobile ChatGPT app even permits voice input/output.

ChatGPT iPhone/iPad app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/chatgpt/id6448311069

ChatGPT Android app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.openai.chatgpt)

Satellites sent by spacex don't have these
limitations. Also when their functino has withered, they're programmed
to deorbit and burn up in the upper atmosphere. If a plane loses
control, it could land in a house or on a packed school yard.

I suppose the Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft might be equipped with a self-destruct system, as SpaceX rockets are, to address loss of control issues.

I just don't see how the two could compare on a one-to-one basis.

Agreed. A single aircraft's communication performance can't compare with a system of 4000 LEO satellites. But, the cost of deployment and operation, and subscription fee would likely be significantly less, which may make it economically competitive with StarLink service.

It seems to me, that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered >>> aircraft would be able to offer regional broadband Internet, cell service, >>> ... at lesser cost than a network of 4000 satellites in LEO required to do >>> the same. Because its foundation is built on the Solar Impulse, the first >>> solar-powered aircraft to circumnavigate the globe, its competence is likely
up to the task.

The sun is only up part of the day and in the northern latitudes, even >>less..

Of course, that is true, however it is based on the world record breaking global circumnavigating SolarImpluse <https://solarimpulse.com/>, that remained continuously airborne for many consecutive days. I don't see a
lack of solar power to be an issue.

Also, starlink is already afunctional service for most of the
world. We're not talking about a system being planned, it's actually up
and running. Cruise ships and airlines are deploying starlink on their >>planes now to provide cheap internet to passengers. Their next gen >>satellites are also providing cell coverage - no more roaming or >>international rates booyah.

You're not trying to imply that there is no economic room for market competition, are you?

I agree with Jim, that it may be useful for short term emergencies over >>smaller regions.

So, if not a "killer," a worthy competitor then ...

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 14:48:34 +0000, Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> wrote:

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> writes:

Why isn't this a StarLink killer?

Seriously?

Solar-powered aircraft achieves groundbreaking 22-hour autonomous flight >>>>> https://www.foxnews.com/tech/solar-powered-aircraft-achieves-groundbreaking-22-hour-autonomous-flight

How perpetual flights could soon be reality
By Kurt Knutsson, CyberGuy Report Fox News
Published November 14, 2024 6:00am EST

Solar-powered aircraft achieves groundbreaking 22-hour autonomous flight >>>>> Aircraft can stay airborne for weeks without refueling.

Imagine an aircraft that can stay airborne for weeks, even months, without
refueling. This isn't futuristic fantasy.

Skydweller Aero is working toward turning this vision into reality with its
innovative solar-powered plane.

As the world's largest unmanned solar-powered aircraft, Skydweller is >>>>> pushing the boundaries of what's possible in aviation.

<script type="text/javascript"
src="https://video.foxnews.com/v/embed.js?id=6364663907112&w=466&h=263"></script><noscript>Watch
the latest video at <a
href="https://www.foxnews.com">foxnews.com</a></noscript>

solar aircraft 1
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

A milestone achievement
Skydweller Aero recently achieved a significant milestone by completing a >>>>> series of uncrewed autonomous flight tests. The longest of these flights >>>>> lasted an impressive 22½ hours, launched from the company's facility at >>>>> Stennis International Airport in Kiln, Mississippi. This achievement >>>>> demonstrates the feasibility of remaining airborne for extended periods >>>>> using solar energy and batteries.

solar aircraft 2
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

The Skydweller advantage
What sets Skydweller apart from its predecessors? Its foundation is built on
the Solar Impulse, the first solar-powered aircraft to circumnavigate the >>>>> globe. This heritage provides Skydweller with a robust design capable of >>>>> carrying substantial payloads. With a wingspan of 236 feet (larger than a >>>>> 747) and weighing just 5,620 pounds (about the same weight as a Ford F150),
the Skydweller can carry up to 800 pounds of payload.

solar aircraft 3
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

THIS CRAZY 2-IN-1 ELECTRIC VEHICLE COMES EQUIPPED WITH 2-SEAT AIRCRAFT >>>>> HIDDEN INSIDE

Military applications and beyond
The Navy has demonstrated significant interest in Skydweller's potential, as
evidenced by recent flight tests conducted as part of a Joint Concept >>>>> Technology Demonstration, which previously played a key role in the
development of platforms like the Global Hawk and Predator. This initiative,
overseen by the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Research and >>>>> Engineering and supported by a cooperative research and development
agreement with the Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division, aims to >>>>> evaluate autonomous maritime patrol aircraft. Skydweller's ability to remain
airborne for extended periods could revolutionize maritime patrol and >>>>> surveillance operations.

Persistent surveillance for maritime and border security
Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft offers >>>>> continuous surveillance capabilities, enhancing maritime border security, >>>>> monitoring illegal fishing activities and preventing unauthorized operations
such as trafficking and smuggling. The aircraft's long endurance enables >>>>> round-the-clock coverage, significantly bolstering national security >>>>> efforts.

Telecommunications and connectivity
By serving as a non-terrestrial communications platform, Skydweller Aero >>>>> provides cost-effective, airborne telecom solutions to remote areas and >>>>> underserved populations. This capability not only connects the unconnected
but also promotes economic development in these regions.

Disaster response and humanitarian aid
In times of crisis, Skydweller Aero's aircraft can rapidly respond to >>>>> disasters, offering real-time aerial assessments, communication relays and
tracking for relief operations. The solar-powered endurance ensures
extended, consistent coverage, complementing other assets or providing >>>>> solutions where alternatives are unavailable or cost-prohibitive.

Environmental monitoring and research
Skydweller Aero's ultra-long endurance and remote access capabilities make
it an invaluable asset for environmental and scientific research. From >>>>> climate and wildfire monitoring to geophysical surveys, the aircraft enables
meaningful, long-baseline data collection across vast regions, contributing
significantly to environmental protection efforts.

solar aircraft 4
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

The road to commercialization
While military applications are the initial focus, Skydweller Aero has its
sights set on commercial markets, too. CEO Robert Miller envisions a future
where solar-powered aircraft could serve as airborne communication
platforms, complementing satellite networks. Miller sees solar aircraft as a
complementary capability to LEO satellite communications rather than a >>>>> direct rival, with the potential for providing continuous coverage in >>>>> specific regions.

solar aircraft 5
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

Overcoming technical challenges
Developing a solar-powered aircraft isn't without its challenges. Many >>>>> previous attempts by other companies have ended in failure. Skydweller's >>>>> success lies in its team's expertise in aeroelasticity, ensuring the >>>>> aircraft can withstand the stresses of flight. As CEO Robert Miller
explains, "Fundamentally, my team has a lot more experience in
aeroelasticity than all the other solar programs combined."

solar aircraft 6
Skydweller Aero solar aircraft (Skydweller Aero)

Kurt’s key takeaways
As the world's largest unmanned solar aircraft, Skydweller Aero is
revolutionizing aviation and opening up exciting new possibilities. From >>>>> enhancing maritime patrols to serving as airborne communication platforms,
the potential applications are vast. While challenges remain, Skydweller's
recent successful test flights demonstrate just how far solar aviation >>>>> technology has advanced.

What challenges do you foresee in the widespread implementation of
solar-powered aircraft technology, and how might they be overcome? Let us >>>>> know by writing us at Cyberguy.com/Contact.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 10:23:46 -0800, Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:

snip

It is practically impossible to fully contain helium. About the best you >>can do is thick, high grade stainless steel.

Graphene is highly impermeable to gases, including helium, due to its dense and tightly bonded atomic structure. A perfect single layer of graphene acts as an extremely effective barrier, blocking the passage of even small atoms like helium. This property is because the carbon atoms in graphene are arranged in a two-dimensional hexagonal lattice with very small gaps between them?much smaller than the size of a helium atom.

Graphene sheets currently cost $349.99 for a 20 um 10x10 cm sheet, a bit
less in bulk. I leave it to you to calculate the cost to cover a glider
with a wingspan that is hundreds of feet.

If it's antonymous flight control system were AI based, I believe it would >>> be capable of coping with the other potential issues you raised.

Not a snowballs chance in hell. While things like ADS-B might help, it >>would be more yet payload to get high enough to avoid all weather.

We disagree.

No surprise there.

(Have you used ChatGPT yet? <https://chatgpt.com/> I find its capability >>> astounding, including up-to-the-minute real-time Internet access. The
mobile ChatGPT app even permits voice input/output.

Yes, I first tried ChatGPT when it was first available and several times
since then with each improvement. I am still not impressed.

I first got involved with AI in about 1980. I was not impressed then and
I am not impressed now. It is just another thing that will be real any
day now along with peace in the Middle East, a cure for the common cold
and practical fusion power.

So, you haven't recently tried ChatGPT?

Redundent. See above.

AI improvement is progressing at an exponential rate.

Yep, any day now for almost a half century.

Please see ChatGPT's critique of your response below.

Lord save me from such a fate.

<snip old stuff>

What would you estimate the cost to engineer, construct, and deploy 4000 satellites might be, compared to the Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered aircraft?

Well, since the satellites have already been engineered and constructed,
and a lot have already been deployed, a hell of a lot less than some pie
in the sky scheme starting essentially from zero. There is not even a
prototype of an airframe existing on paper fit for the purpose.

<snip old stuff>

============= ChatGPT's Critique ========================

<snip>

The second person's skepticism towards AI, including ChatGPT, is
meticulously evaluated, noting that their doubt might be unwarranted considering AI's substantial progress.

Yeah, sure, "might be".

I'm thinking through the critique of the response, noting the outdated 1980 perspective, the absence of appreciation for modern AI advancements, and the dismissive attitude towards AI progress.

Which totally ignored me stating I have been involved SINCE 1980, not
ONLY in 1980. This is typical ChatGPT babble. ChatGPT and it's like have
a big problem with subtleties, such as drawing human hands with 5 fingers.

<snip>

Reference to 1980s AI: The responder mentions involvement with AI around 1980. AI technology has evolved dramatically since then. Early AI systems were rudimentary compared to today's sophisticated models.

And yet again.

Snip remainer unread as I am already bored to tears.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:

<snip old crap>

============= ChatGPT's Critique ========================

I gave ChatGPT your original paragraph starting with "It seems to me,
that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered..."

Here's one of the first things it said:

"Deploying and maintaining aircraft systems like Skydweller may involve significantly less upfront capital compared to launching thousands of satellites into orbit, which requires rockets, ground infrastructure,
and ongoing satellite replenishment."

Which means ChatGPT doesn't seem to know that satellites are already in
place as is the ground infrastructure.

Some more highlights:

A bit further on ChatGPT doesn't seem to know that satellites can be repositioned, though with a swarm instead of geosynchronous satellites
such is not necessary. GPS covers most of the world with 31 satellites.

ChatGPT doesn't seem to know that satellites are designed to be
destroyed during reentry at end of life and babbles about space debris,

ChatGPT says, "Building on Solar Impulse’s proven technology..." while
Solar Impulse’s technology has nothing what so ever to do with remote communications systems running 24/7 for years.

Gee, ain't AI great?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> writes:

Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> wrote:

<snip old crap>

============= ChatGPT's Critique ========================

I gave ChatGPT your original paragraph starting with "It seems to me,
that Skydweller Aero's uncrewed, autonomous solar-powered..."

Here's one of the first things it said:

"Deploying and maintaining aircraft systems like Skydweller may involve significantly less upfront capital compared to launching thousands of satellites into orbit, which requires rockets, ground infrastructure,
and ongoing satellite replenishment."

Which means ChatGPT doesn't seem to know that satellites are already in
place as is the ground infrastructure.

Some more highlights:

A bit further on ChatGPT doesn't seem to know that satellites can be repositioned, though with a swarm instead of geosynchronous satellites
such is not necessary. GPS covers most of the world with 31 satellites.

ChatGPT doesn't seem to know that satellites are designed to be
destroyed during reentry at end of life and babbles about space debris,

ChatGPT says, "Building on Solar Impulse’s proven technology..." while Solar Impulse’s technology has nothing what so ever to do with remote communications systems running 24/7 for years.

Gee, ain't AI great?

ChatGPT is a toy. It's good for creating a memo or a proposal. Maybe
some light programming. At this point, at least.

So I don't know, can't ask for much on a system that is still learning
from a userbase that is largely using it for free. Quantity vs quality.

I work for the government and we have a mandate to fold AI into our
business practrices. At this point, to which degree I don't know. I'm
just the guy who makes the network modifications to allow the
traffic. But if I were to guess, it would be to assist people with
writing documents, assess new legislation and coding. Meanwhile, we have
been told to avoid all publicly available advanced language models like
chatgpt because some of our data is sensitive. Our chief ISO's office
obtained word that some exfiltration has already occured
unintentionally. Either way, a government owned AI model would still
require learning even if they purchase an existing model package.

In my opinion, over time, the intellectual output of our staff will go
down because they will rely on an advanced language model to
do the heavy lifting versus utilizing existing skills. And programmers
will become less skilled for the same reason. And if leadership later
changes and abolish the AI, the neighborhood will go to shit.

From personal experience, I have asked chatgpt to create source code for a simple project. The result was so poorly created that I spent more
time debugging it than if I had just created it from scratch. At this
point, I'd give chatgpt my completed code and have it create comments
and documentation. I asked it some complex questions on astronomy and it
only knew what it was trained to know and the answers were quite
inaccurate. Once I gave it some links, it revised its answers. Then I
asked the same question on a new thread and it gave a revised version of
the first answer. These systems have a long way to go.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)