• Re: Why Elon Musk Sees 1 Million People on Mars by the 2040s

    From bertietaylor@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 13 13:27:23 2024
    XPost: alt.astronomy, alt.fan.heinlein

    Read too much bad scifi.

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  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sat Jul 13 09:21:11 2024
    XPost: alt.astronomy, alt.fan.heinlein

    On 7/12/24 09:34, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "a425couple"  wrote in message news:tickO.11338$ySE.7189@fx11.iad...

    from https://www.inc.com/chloe-aiello/why-elon-musk-sees-1-million-people-on-mars-by-2040s.html

    Why Elon Musk Sees 1 Million People on Mars by the 2040s

    ------------------------------------------------------
    Are these the million people trying to colonize the Sahara?


    I do not know.

    I think somewhere was a quote, I can not remember well enough.
    But Google gave me this that is on the general topic:

    r/IsaacArthur icon
    Go to IsaacArthur
    r/IsaacArthur

    3 yr. ago
    D3cepti0ns

    To all the people that would choose to live on Mars but not in
    Antarctica, why?
    I just don't understand why anybody would actually want to live on Mars.
    I don't think people quite understand how desolate it is. Antarctica is
    a thousand times more hospitable, but you don't see people volunteering
    to move there. You want oxygen, higher temps, abundant water, agreeable gravity, radiation protection, fast communication? Mars isn't probably
    for you.

    If you'd volunteer to live on Mars but not in the middle of Antarctica
    you seriously misunderstand the situation you are so excited to
    volunteer for. I don't think anyone will be living on Mars before anyone
    is living in Antarctica.



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    u/Flaxinator avatar
    Flaxinator

    3y ago
    People don't want to go there for the comfort and amenities, they want
    to go because it is a different planet. They want to be part of the next
    great leap for humankind, even if it means discomfort and hardship.



    u/Harbingerx81 avatar
    Harbingerx81

    3y ago
    It saddens me how many people find this so hard to understand.


    Upvote
    28



    u/MandatoryFunEscapee avatar
    MandatoryFunEscapee

    3y ago
    Humans haven't had to pioneer a new frontier in a while now. I would not
    go on one of the first missions, but I would go on one of the first 20
    or so, if given the chance.

    The opportunities, the discoveries, the adventure sounds incredible.
    I've deployed with the military a few times. I can sleep anywhere, carry
    all my stuff in a ruck, I'm used to uncomfortable rides and wearing
    equipment to counter rough environments. Going to Mars is orders of
    magnitude more difficult and intense than anything I've ever done, but I
    bet I would truly feel alive again in a way I haven't in years, and may
    never feel again.

    That alone is worth the risk.

    theistdoge

    3y ago

    Edited 3y ago
    I'm not going to volunteer to live on Mars, but I can point out at least
    a few things:

    The Antarctic Treaty System makes it really, really difficult to legally
    settle Antarctica.

    Antarctica actually do have residents all year round. Amundsen-Scott
    base on the south pole for example. There are even a few people born on
    the continent.

    Mars doesn't have a 6 month long night, so you can have solar all year
    round.

    Mars doesn't have the kinds of storms that can make you unable to walk
    outside and will blow you away if you're caught unawares.

    Mars doesn't have the kind of ice that literally bury your station over
    the winter. It has dust that would cover it in a layer, but that's a lot
    easier to handle.

    Temperatures are similar, but conduction/convection through the Mars
    atmosphere is much, much slower. So staying warm is lots easier. In some
    cases, you may have a problem cooling down.

    What it does have in common is radiation - Mars is a harsher, but the
    poles are also significant.

    Mars is harsh, but it's not all the same things and in some ways the
    Martian harshness is easier to handle. Curiosity wouldn't have survived
    a week on Antarctica, let alone 8 years - and I don't know if we could
    even build a rover that survives 8 years there.

    Despite all this, I think there would be some people who would have
    tried to set up shop on Antarctica if it weren't for the ATS. We are > 6 billion people and you're going to find some percentage (however small)
    that would like that kind of thing. Same is going to apply to Mars.

    You want oxygen, higher temps, abundant water, agreeable gravity,
    radiation protection, fast communication?

    What you're saying is you can't go outside with only a t-shirt and jeans
    on and you can't talk with your old mum in real time or google cat
    memes. Everyone that wants to go already knows that and still wants to.
    What you're doing is pointing out your own preferences and assuming it
    applies to literally everyone.

    agreeable gravity

    Question is how would partial gravity affect reproduction? Muscle/bone
    atrophy is not a huge issue since any martians will be doing lots of
    hard physical labor, especially in the beginning.



    19 more replies
    u/Ilyushenka avatar
    Ilyushenka

    3y ago
    People who want to go to Mars are not doing it for the comfort, they are
    doing it because they want to be part of something important. Astronauts
    who travel to the ISS face discomfort and danger for up to a year, yet
    most of them would say it’s one of the most rewarding and fulfilling experiences in life.

    Colonizing Antarctica won’t provide much tangible benefit to humanity
    (aside from the research we’re already doing), but Mars will help us in
    lots of ways. Learning to terraform Mars and turn barren regolith into
    soil will help us learn to use earth’s resources more efficiently. Mars
    will also act as a helpful launchpad for exploring the rest of the solar system, since we can potentially launch rockets from there more cheaply
    because of the lower gravity. Finally, a self sustaining civilization on
    Mars would help safeguard humanity against catastrophe.



    [deleted]
    Titanosaurus

    3y ago
    Whoa whoa whoa. Let’s not get too pretentious with our thoughts.
    Antarctica is the last part of earth to colonize. There’s untapped
    resources that can last humanity 100s if not thousands of years. It’s a continent, not some deserted island in the middle of the pacific.

    There is a lot of benefit to humanity in Antarctica.

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  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to bertietaylor on Sat Jul 13 09:23:42 2024
    XPost: alt.astronomy, alt.fan.heinlein

    On 7/13/24 06:27, bertietaylor wrote:
    Read too much bad scifi.

    Perhaps.
    Or, perhaps a unusually capable man who really wants in
    his life to make a change in humanity.

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  • From Daniel70@21:1/5 to R Kym Horsell on Sun Jul 14 16:13:03 2024
    XPost: alt.astronomy, alt.fan.heinlein

    R Kym Horsell wrote on 14/7/24 7:15 am:

    <Snip>

    Colonising Mars will not be easy and that's probably a good thing.
    The conditions are so hard and the place is so remote it will
    quickly diverge from Earth customs pretty fast much like Australia
    did from Britain.

    Australia 'diverge' from Britian!! You have got to be joking! Unlike The
    U.S. of A. (and Europe and just about everywhere else on Earth), we in Australia drive on THE CORRECT SIDE OF THE ROAD (which isn't the RIGHT
    side) .... and we spell words the correct way (Well the older
    generations do, those that haven't been so influenced by U.S. of A.
    T.V.!!) ;-P
    --
    Daniel

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  • From bertietaylor@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 14 06:37:24 2024
    XPost: alt.astronomy, alt.fan.heinlein

    On Sat, 13 Jul 2024 16:23:42 +0000, a425couple wrote:

    On 7/13/24 06:27, bertietaylor wrote:
    Read too much bad scifi.

    Perhaps.
    Or, perhaps a unusually capable man who really wants in
    his life to make a change in humanity.

    He is a disaster. His rockets pollute the upper atmosphere to accelerate greenhouse effect many times over. Rockets are for fireworks. Not space travel. For that there will be Arindam's reactionless motors and his new physics upgrading Newton's laws of motion.

    Woof-woof

    What fools these bipeds be!

    Bertietaylor

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  • From Daniel70@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon Jul 15 19:29:28 2024
    XPost: alt.astronomy, alt.fan.heinlein

    Jim Wilkins wrote on 14/7/24 9:23 pm:
    "Daniel70"  wrote in message news:v6vq9g$1bd2$1@dont-email.me...
    R Kym Horsell wrote on 14/7/24 7:15 am:

    <Snip>

    Colonising Mars will not be easy and that's probably a good thing.
    The conditions are so hard and the place is so remote it will
    quickly diverge from Earth customs pretty fast much like Australia
    did from Britain.

    Australia 'diverge' from Britian!! You have got to be joking! Unlike The
    U.S. of A. (and Europe and just about everywhere else on Earth), we in Australia drive on THE CORRECT SIDE OF THE ROAD (which isn't the RIGHT
    side) .... and we spell words the correct way (Well the older
    generations do, those that haven't been so influenced by U.S. of A.
    T.V.!!) ;-P

    .... and then Jim Wilkins posted a link to

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_gauge_in_Australia

    about the various Rail Gauges in Australia due to each of the former
    Colonies not wanting to follow the lead of any of the other Colonies.

    For that reason, the Albury Railway Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albury_railway_station was reputed to be
    the Longest Railway Station in The World because it had to be long
    enough to handle two trains, a New South Wales Railways STANDARD GUAGE
    (4ft 8inch, I think) Train as well as a Victorian Railways BROAD GUAGE
    (5ft 3inch) Train, at the same time.
    -
    Daniel

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  • From Daniel70@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue Jul 16 18:15:53 2024
    XPost: alt.astronomy, alt.fan.heinlein

    Jim Wilkins wrote on 15/7/24 9:17 pm:
    "Daniel70"  wrote in message news:v72q5p$kv16$1@dont-email.me...

    .... and then Jim Wilkins posted a link to

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_gauge_in_Australia

    about the various Rail Gauges in Australia due to each of the former
    Colonies not wanting to follow the lead of any of the other Colonies.

    For that reason, the Albury Railway Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albury_railway_station was reputed to be
    the Longest Railway Station in The World because it had to be long
    enough to handle two trains, a New South Wales Railways STANDARD GUAGE
    (4ft 8inch, I think) Train as well as a Victorian Railways BROAD GUAGE
    (5ft 3inch) Train, at the same time.
    -
    Daniel
    -----------------------------------
    Is GUAGE the British spelling?

    No, it's my misspelling of Gauge!! ;-( But I was close!!
    --
    Daniel

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