On 14 Mar 2025 at 16:31:19 GMT, "Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

On 2025-03-14 04:27, badgolferman wrote:

Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

On 2025-03-13 16:37:55 +0000, Tyrone said:

On Mar 13, 2025 at 11:21:14 AM EDT, ""badgolferman""
<REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

Referring to Apple advertising Siri features which don’t yet exist, he >>>>> argues that the company is “in disarray if not crisis,” is making >>>>> “bullshit” claims, and has “squandered” its reputation with “a fiasco”

Loads of drivel snipped.

"Apple is DOOMED! Doomed I say!" People have been saying that for 40 years.


I can think of MANY companies who would LOVE to have an "Apple Crisis". >>>>
Grow up.

Apple Intelligence is a waste of time and money anyway. Apple will do
much better simply putting it in the garbage ideas file alongside the
Apple Car, wireless charging mat, and the Pippin games console.

I’m no fan of AI, but they are determined to make it work or fall behind >> everyone else to the point of insignificance.

At this point saying "I'm no fan of AI" is a bit like saying "I'm no fan
of computers" was in the early 1970s.

This article is from Physics World. https://physicsworld.com/a/lost-in-the-mirror-as-ai-development-gathers-momentum-will-it-reflect-humanitys-best-or-worst-attributes/
It was written by a philosopher rather than a physicist.
I found ir an interesting point of view.

Old John.
--
Classic computing: Computers do what you tell them to do,
not what you want them to do.
Modern computing: Computers do what they want to do,
no matter what you tell them to do.

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On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 16:37:55 +0000, Tyrone wrote :

I can think of MANY companies who would LOVE to have an "Apple Crisis".

The reason Apple will prosper is that an Apple consumer is, by nature, a
herd animal, devoid of any rational semblance of critical-thought process.

In effect, an Apple consumer believes everything Apple tells them to.

If Apple says these Siri features will soon ship, the Apple consumer lines
up at the store because they can't wait to ditch their old iPhone for a new iPhone that finally has the features Apple has been claiming it always had.

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On 2025-03-13 19:43, Your Name wrote:

On 2025-03-13 16:37:55 +0000, Tyrone said:

On Mar 13, 2025 at 11:21:14 AM EDT, ""badgolferman""
<REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

Referring to Apple advertising Siri features which don’t yet exist, he >>> argues that the company is “in disarray if not crisis,” is making
“bullshit” claims, and has “squandered” its reputation with “a fiasco”

Loads of drivel snipped.

"Apple is DOOMED!  Doomed I say!" People have been saying that for 40
years.


I can think of MANY companies who would LOVE to have an "Apple Crisis".

Grow up.

Apple Intelligence is a waste of time and money anyway. Apple will do
much better simply putting it in the garbage ideas file alongside the
Apple Car, wireless charging mat, and the Pippin games console.

Your bias against AI is showing.

It still has a long way to go, but it is clear by now that it is only
going to grow into a very powerful tool

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On 2025-03-14 04:27, badgolferman wrote:

Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

On 2025-03-13 16:37:55 +0000, Tyrone said:

On Mar 13, 2025 at 11:21:14 AM EDT, ""badgolferman""
<REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

Referring to Apple advertising Siri features which don’t yet exist, he >>>> argues that the company is “in disarray if not crisis,” is making
“bullshit” claims, and has “squandered” its reputation with “a fiasco”

Loads of drivel snipped.

"Apple is DOOMED! Doomed I say!" People have been saying that for 40 years.


I can think of MANY companies who would LOVE to have an "Apple Crisis".

Grow up.

Apple Intelligence is a waste of time and money anyway. Apple will do
much better simply putting it in the garbage ideas file alongside the
Apple Car, wireless charging mat, and the Pippin games console.

I’m no fan of AI, but they are determined to make it work or fall behind everyone else to the point of insignificance.

At this point saying "I'm no fan of AI" is a bit like saying "I'm no fan
of computers" was in the early 1970s.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 11:27:28 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote :

Apple Intelligence is a waste of time and money anyway. Apple will do
much better simply putting it in the garbage ideas file alongside the
Apple Car, wireless charging mat, and the Pippin games console.

I'm no fan of AI, but they are determined to make it work or fall behind everyone else to the point of insignificance.

Hi badgolferman,

I can converse with you differently than you must with the Apple trolls.

Having studied AI briefly (I took a graduate class in artificial
intelligence in the late 70's) I had thought (up until recently) that it
was just another computer program, and it is just another program.

But it's more than that in some (rather important) respects.
The key to how it's different than just another powerful program is LLM.

All programs do exactly what they're coded to do, no more, no less, but
just as it was in the late 70's and early 80's, the core of LLM
functionality is that AI learns from the data.

What's different is the data.

An apropos example is I've been teaching Gemini to cease spouting Apple & Google propaganda, and it seems I've been (somewhat) successful in that.

AI question: <https://i.postimg.cc/2SyDDk91/apple-battery-propaganda.jpg>
Same question, next day: <https://i.postimg.cc/9QYqvBSm/one-day-later.jpg>

Unlike Apple trolls, AI actually can 'learn' from processing the facts.
<https://i.postimg.cc/6ppvxZNC/working-together.jpg>

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On 2025-03-14 12:06, badgolferman wrote:

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 11:27:28 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote :

Apple Intelligence is a waste of time and money anyway. Apple will do
much better simply putting it in the garbage ideas file alongside the
Apple Car, wireless charging mat, and the Pippin games console.

I'm no fan of AI, but they are determined to make it work or fall behind >>> everyone else to the point of insignificance.

Hi badgolferman,

I can converse with you differently than you must with the Apple trolls.

Having studied AI briefly (I took a graduate class in artificial
intelligence in the late 70's) I had thought (up until recently) that it
was just another computer program, and it is just another program.

But it's more than that in some (rather important) respects.
The key to how it's different than just another powerful program is LLM.

All programs do exactly what they're coded to do, no more, no less, but
just as it was in the late 70's and early 80's, the core of LLM
functionality is that AI learns from the data.

What's different is the data.

An apropos example is I've been teaching Gemini to cease spouting Apple &
Google propaganda, and it seems I've been (somewhat) successful in that.

AI question: <https://i.postimg.cc/2SyDDk91/apple-battery-propaganda.jpg>
Same question, next day: <https://i.postimg.cc/9QYqvBSm/one-day-later.jpg> >>
Unlike Apple trolls, AI actually can 'learn' from processing the facts.
<https://i.postimg.cc/6ppvxZNC/working-together.jpg>

Back in the 90’s I used to play backgammon on a program called Jellyfish. The big deal about Jellyfish was something called a neural network,
although I don’t really know what that is. I always thought it was something similar to AI. From what I’ve seen and read, games like chess and backgammon and even Go have far surpassed the best human players. Is that considered artificial intelligence too?

In microcosm, sure.

But even the most complex games have a very limited set of things to
learn compared to general AI.

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On 2025-03-14 13:17, badgolferman wrote:

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

On 2025-03-14 12:06, badgolferman wrote:

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 11:27:28 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote :

Apple Intelligence is a waste of time and money anyway. Apple will do >>>>>> much better simply putting it in the garbage ideas file alongside the >>>>>> Apple Car, wireless charging mat, and the Pippin games console.

I'm no fan of AI, but they are determined to make it work or fall behind >>>>> everyone else to the point of insignificance.

Hi badgolferman,

I can converse with you differently than you must with the Apple trolls. >>>>
Having studied AI briefly (I took a graduate class in artificial
intelligence in the late 70's) I had thought (up until recently) that it >>>> was just another computer program, and it is just another program.

But it's more than that in some (rather important) respects.
The key to how it's different than just another powerful program is LLM. >>>>
All programs do exactly what they're coded to do, no more, no less, but >>>> just as it was in the late 70's and early 80's, the core of LLM
functionality is that AI learns from the data.

What's different is the data.

An apropos example is I've been teaching Gemini to cease spouting Apple & >>>> Google propaganda, and it seems I've been (somewhat) successful in that. >>>>
AI question: <https://i.postimg.cc/2SyDDk91/apple-battery-propaganda.jpg> >>>> Same question, next day: <https://i.postimg.cc/9QYqvBSm/one-day-later.jpg> >>>>
Unlike Apple trolls, AI actually can 'learn' from processing the facts. >>>> <https://i.postimg.cc/6ppvxZNC/working-together.jpg>

Back in the 90’s I used to play backgammon on a program called Jellyfish. >>> The big deal about Jellyfish was something called a neural network,
although I don’t really know what that is. I always thought it was
something similar to AI. From what I’ve seen and read, games like chess and
backgammon and even Go have far surpassed the best human players. Is that >>> considered artificial intelligence too?

In microcosm, sure.

But even the most complex games have a very limited set of things to
learn compared to general AI.

My youngest son is about to graduate from University of Virginia with a Computer Science degree. He’s already telling me his future job will be taken over by AI and he’s screwed. I told him someone still needs to write GUIs and customize the businesses programs. Hopefully I gave him some hope for his future employment prospects…

He's right to be worried.

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On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 20:17:54 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote :

My youngest son is about to graduate from University of Virginia with a Computer Science degree. He's already telling me his future job will be
taken over by AI and he's screwed. I told him someone still needs to write GUIs and customize the businesses programs. Hopefully I gave him some hope for his future employment prospects...

Specialization.

Specialization is the key to success (IMHO).
Can your kid learn?

That's the only thing he needs to be 'successful' in this day & age.

I have kids who are in the government, and they keep telling me they're screwed, just as we've heard this lament since the horse & buggy farrier
was replaced by the local garage shop mechanic, who, himself, will be
replaced by someone else. It's an ongoing progression of skills needed.

I started off in comp sci way back in the late 60s and I decided I didn't
like programming so I switched to microbiology and then after getting that degree I decided I didn't like that so I went into electrical engineering
and decided I didn't like that (after decades in the Silicon Valley)
and then I went into something called benign retirement. I like that. :)

That was over two decades ago and I'm still learning every single day.

I'm learning that what we call AI is actually a very useful search
companion, since it will do things that your secretary does today.

My point, only, is that things change - but there will always be a need for people to "specialize" in something, and as long as that person has the capability to adapt (which requires intelligence), they'll do just fine.

Your son has a VERY employable degree, not because of what he knows, but because getting that degree required intelligence and discipline.

A college degree tells an employer that this person has been "reviewed" by
at least forty different professors, some of whom are complete assholes,
and that person has been given a huge assignment by each of those
professors, each of which takes 3 months to complete (in a two-semester
system) and, at the end of that 3-month task, that student has to have
passed the testing requirements to that professor's satisfaction.

Since none of the Apple trolls have a college degree, they won't understand that simply having a degree means a person is capable of learning 40
different rather complex subjects and that person has been tested on them.

To have a "technical" degree, such as comp sci is, is even better.
I fear not for your young son, badgolferman - and I wish him the best.

Oh, to be a freshman in the dorms again! Youth is wasted on the young. :)

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On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 19:06:42 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote :

From what I've seen and read, games like chess and
backgammon and even Go have far surpassed the best human players. Is that considered artificial intelligence too?

I'm mostly only using Gemini (aka Bard), where I find that it's wrong most
of the time when you ask it a question which most people don't know the
answer to - as most people get their "science" from advertisements.

So does Gemini.
Since Apple propaganda is everywhere, that's all that Gemini knows.

But... the difference... is Gemini can "learn".
And it can "remember" what it learned.

So, for example, I asked Gemini who had better support, Apple or Samsung. Gemini spewed the propaganda you'd expect from Apple's brilliant marketing.

But then I asked Gemini to provide factual proof.
Now the propaganda instantly lessened, to about half.

But the propaganda was still prevalent, since only about one out of a
million people can see through the propaganda using critical thought.

Then I tried to get Gemini to *find* the facts.
That helped somewhat, as it found *some* of the facts that I knew.

Eventually, I was forced to *feed* Gemini the facts.
I fed it Apple's own public statements. And those from the EU.

The same stuff I've provided to this newsgroup, in fact, which Apple trolls
can never comprehend as Apple trolls are nothing but mindless herd animals.

Here's the difference!
Gemini is NOT a mindless herd animal.

Gemini is a herd animal, for sure.
But Gemini will take facts into account.

I was able to get Gemini to stop spouting unsubstantiated Apple propaganda.
At least on the one question of who provides longer full hotfix support.

This is a key distinction between a "real human" and "AI", I think.

Only one out of a million humans can discern propaganda from fact.
But every AI can. If you provide the facts.
And if you tell it to only speak facts.

Try it.
1. Log into gemini.google.com on any web browser
2. Ask it an Apple propaganda question (that you KNOW the answer to!)
3. After a few "turns" of marketing bullshit - it will change its mind

Then come back the next day, and ask the same question.
It will have "learned".

That's the beauty of AI over 999,999 out of a million humans.
AI can utilize facts to overcome the propaganda.

999,999 out of a million humans can't overcome the pervasive propaganda.
But AI can.

That's worth a lot!

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On 2025-03-14 11:43, Marion wrote:

On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 11:27:28 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote :

Apple Intelligence is a waste of time and money anyway. Apple will do
much better simply putting it in the garbage ideas file alongside the
Apple Car, wireless charging mat, and the Pippin games console.

I'm no fan of AI, but they are determined to make it work or fall behind
everyone else to the point of insignificance.

Hi badgolferman,

I can converse with you differently than you must with the Apple trolls.

Having studied AI briefly (I took a graduate class in artificial
intelligence in the late 70's) I had thought (up until recently) that it
was just another computer program, and it is just another program.

But it's more than that in some (rather important) respects.
The key to how it's different than just another powerful program is LLM.

All programs do exactly what they're coded to do, no more, no less, but
just as it was in the late 70's and early 80's, the core of LLM
functionality is that AI learns from the data.
What's different is the data.

Wow.

You're completely ignorant of the concept of "self-modifying code"...

An apropos example is I've been teaching Gemini to cease spouting Apple & Google propaganda, and it seems I've been (somewhat) successful in that.

AI question: <https://i.postimg.cc/2SyDDk91/apple-battery-propaganda.jpg>

Are you fucking kidding me?

Same question, next day: <https://i.postimg.cc/9QYqvBSm/one-day-later.jpg>

I mean, really?

Unlike Apple trolls, AI actually can 'learn' from processing the facts. <https://i.postimg.cc/6ppvxZNC/working-together.jpg>

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