On Wednesday 29 November 2023 00:16:11 GMT you wrote:

On Tuesday, 28 November 2023 15:49:10 GMT Daniel Frey wrote:

On 11/28/23 03:38, Michael wrote:

Over the last 8-9 months I noticed an old Lenovo G505s laptop is
spending
a
long time in the POST process, before eventually the OEM logo shows up
on
the screen. Last time I timed it, it took 2.5-3.0 minutes. Normally it would only take ~20-30 seconds. Once the logo shows up the boot process proceeds without further delay.

Initially, this delay to POST would happen randomly and rarely. Now it happens every time.

Things I tried:

1. Reflashing the UEFI firmware - it didn't work because it already has the
latest firmware.

2. Removing the main battery and holding down the power button for 15 seconds, hoping to reset the firmware.

3. Leaving the PSU cable connected overnight.

4. Testing the RAM and HDD.

None of the above improved the situation, or indicated what might be wrong.

I'll reseat the RAM sticks and the HDD next, in case a contact is oxidised,
but what else could cause this noticeable delay to POST? A failing RTC CMOS battery?

We have had a few of these at work and these symptoms were cured by a
new CMOS battery. The voltage on the battery has likely dipped to
2.9-3.0 volts; they get unreliable then (i.e. it's dead.) If you leave
it long enough you'll start getting RTC errors on POST.

I'd try that first, assuming you can still get the CMOS battery for these.

Dan

Thanks Dan, will do. I was planning to take it apart soon to replace the
HDD with an SSD, so this would be the first thing to check. I expect
finding a replacement unit will be difficult. Every Lenovo RTC battery
seems to have a different part number.

Some things are worth waiting for, others no so much. :-(

So, this laptop was taking longer and longer and longer to boot, until it eventually stopped booting 3-4 months ago:

When the power button is pressed the cooling fan spins for a second or two, then it stops. A few minutes later the CPU overheats and eventually it goes into a thermal shutdown. Using an external fan to push air through merely delays this process, but the laptop still does not boot. I am getting a black screen and no POST for many minutes until it cuts out.

I tried to reset the MoBo BIOS by pressing the power button with no battery or mains connected. I also removed the newly replaced CMOS/RTC battery and pressed the power button, but the same failure mode remains after I
reassembled everything.

Do I have:

1. Corrupted MoBo UEFI firmware?
2. A dying/dead chipset?
3. Something else?

Is there anything else I could possibly try?
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

usually in laptops which become dirty (they all do, and it's very difficult to take them apart and clean and reassemble) the hard drive is the first thing to fail completely.  A dying hard drive can easily slow/halt boot. 

CPU/GPU are likely next along with the power supplies for those chips.  All you can really do is take it apart, clean it, and if possible test the hard drive etc. in a known good machine.  Alternately, try a different hard drive (either a replacement
or a small, cheap used one for testing).  Check that all the fans still spin freely after cleaning them, if possible test them on a power supply (note that some will be 5V and some 12V, be careful to read the labels or start low). 

The CPU/GPU may or may not have become marginal, same goes for the memory and all the other chips and other temperature sensitive parts.  Really, it's essential to fix a laptop soon after it starts acting up, those higher temperatures age everything
rapidly and make all the parts more likely to fail.  You may or may not be able to get that laptop working again.

If you can get it basically working test the hell out of everything with utilities like stress so it doesn't fool you and die hard soon.

I hate working on laptops and AIO desktops, always hard to take them apart and put them back together and they both need regular cleaning, before they act up (or at least immediately when they start acting up).  Because of the dust I clean my desktops
at least once a year, also a pain but much easier than a laptop or AIO.  This keeps them from wearing out as quickly and as some one on a small fixed income that's very important to me.

Depending on your' situation and what your' time is worth replacement might be the way to go, though you still probably want to recover what you can from the drive.



--"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." Tommy Douglas




Dec 2, 2024, 09:06 by confabulate@kintzios.com:

On Wednesday 29 November 2023 00:16:11 GMT you wrote:

On Tuesday, 28 November 2023 15:49:10 GMT Daniel Frey wrote:

On 11/28/23 03:38, Michael wrote:

Over the last 8-9 months I noticed an old Lenovo G505s laptop is
spending
a
long time in the POST process, before eventually the OEM logo shows up >> > > on
the screen. Last time I timed it, it took 2.5-3.0 minutes. Normally it >> > > would only take ~20-30 seconds. Once the logo shows up the boot process >> > > proceeds without further delay.

Initially, this delay to POST would happen randomly and rarely. Now it >> > > happens every time.

Things I tried:

1. Reflashing the UEFI firmware - it didn't work because it already has >> > > the
latest firmware.

2. Removing the main battery and holding down the power button for 15
seconds, hoping to reset the firmware.

3. Leaving the PSU cable connected overnight.

4. Testing the RAM and HDD.

None of the above improved the situation, or indicated what might be
wrong.

I'll reseat the RAM sticks and the HDD next, in case a contact is
oxidised,
but what else could cause this noticeable delay to POST? A failing RTC >> > > CMOS battery?

We have had a few of these at work and these symptoms were cured by a
new CMOS battery. The voltage on the battery has likely dipped to
2.9-3.0 volts; they get unreliable then (i.e. it's dead.) If you leave
it long enough you'll start getting RTC errors on POST.

I'd try that first, assuming you can still get the CMOS battery for these. >> >
Dan

Thanks Dan, will do. I was planning to take it apart soon to replace the
HDD with an SSD, so this would be the first thing to check. I expect
finding a replacement unit will be difficult. Every Lenovo RTC battery
seems to have a different part number.

Some things are worth waiting for, others no so much. :-(

So, this laptop was taking longer and longer and longer to boot, until it eventually stopped booting 3-4 months ago:

When the power button is pressed the cooling fan spins for a second or two, then it stops. A few minutes later the CPU overheats and eventually it goes into a thermal shutdown. Using an external fan to push air through merely delays this process, but the laptop still does not boot. I am getting a black
screen and no POST for many minutes until it cuts out.

I tried to reset the MoBo BIOS by pressing the power button with no battery or
mains connected. I also removed the newly replaced CMOS/RTC battery and pressed the power button, but the same failure mode remains after I reassembled everything.

Do I have:

1. Corrupted MoBo UEFI firmware?
2. A dying/dead chipset?
3. Something else?

Is there anything else I could possibly try?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday 3 December 2024 00:34:13 GMT mad.scientist.at.large@tutanota.com wrote:

usually in laptops which become dirty (they all do, and it's very difficult to take them apart and clean and reassemble) the hard drive is the first thing to fail completely. A dying hard drive can easily slow/halt boot.

The hard drive is good.

CPU/GPU are likely next along with the power supplies for those chips. All you can really do is take it apart, clean it, and if possible test the hard drive etc. in a known good machine. Alternately, try a different hard
drive (either a replacement or a small, cheap used one for testing).

The laptop has been used on a cooling pad away from dusty surfaces and cleaned regularly. When I took it apart there was just a little dust on the fan and exhaust, because it hadn't been cleaned for ~6 months or so.

The drive is in good health according to smartctl and fully accessible over a USB cradle.

Check
that all the fans still spin freely after cleaning them, if possible test them on a power supply (note that some will be 5V and some 12V, be careful
to read the labels or start low).

The fan spins freely when rotated by hand. It also spins initially when the power button is pressed. However, it stops within a couple of seconds and
does not start again.

This makes me think ... normally when the fan starts spinning at boot it soon climbs up to maximum speed while the BIOS runs through POST. Then it slows down as the BIOS hands over to the OS. Its connected to the MoBo via 4 wires which control its PWM. The wires are in a good condition, but I have no way
to check what its miniature socket voltage could be while I power it up starts without some spare fan or plug. Anyway, I don't know if some pull-up resistor in the fan control circuit is damaged, but even if it failed wouldn't the fan continue spinning but at a low speed? This one stops dead. Hence it makes me think of a corrupt/damaged MoBo chipset or firmware. :-/

I hate working on laptops and AIO desktops, always hard to take them apart and put them back together and they both need regular cleaning, before they act up (or at least immediately when they start acting up).

Yes, I *really* don't like laptops for a number of reasons, no matter the convenience they offer. The inherent difficulty in cleaning/upgrade/repairs, added to their relatively small screen size, makes me wanting to avoid them.

Because of the
dust I clean my desktops at least once a year, also a pain but much easier than a laptop or AIO. This keeps them from wearing out as quickly and as some one on a small fixed income that's very important to me.

The design compromises on a laptop compared to a desktop are many. I don't think I ever had a laptop lasting for more than 6 years of continuous usage without things breaking, no matter how careful I was with it. By the time its battery needs replacement something around the corner is usually about to fail on me.

I recall seeing the same symptom on an HP laptop some years ago now. I replaced its fan, but it continued to fail to boot in the same manner. I
never got to the bottom of it at the time.

Dec 2, 2024, 09:06 by confabulate@kintzios.com:

On Wednesday 29 November 2023 00:16:11 GMT you wrote:

On Tuesday, 28 November 2023 15:49:10 GMT Daniel Frey wrote:

On 11/28/23 03:38, Michael wrote:

Over the last 8-9 months I noticed an old Lenovo G505s laptop is
spending
a
long time in the POST process, before eventually the OEM logo shows
up
on
the screen. Last time I timed it, it took 2.5-3.0 minutes. Normally >> > > it
would only take ~20-30 seconds. Once the logo shows up the boot
process
proceeds without further delay.

Initially, this delay to POST would happen randomly and rarely. Now >> > > it
happens every time.

Things I tried:

1. Reflashing the UEFI firmware - it didn't work because it already
has
the
latest firmware.

2. Removing the main battery and holding down the power button for 15 >> > > seconds, hoping to reset the firmware.

3. Leaving the PSU cable connected overnight.

4. Testing the RAM and HDD.

None of the above improved the situation, or indicated what might be >> > > wrong.

I'll reseat the RAM sticks and the HDD next, in case a contact is
oxidised,
but what else could cause this noticeable delay to POST? A failing
RTC
CMOS battery?

We have had a few of these at work and these symptoms were cured by a
new CMOS battery. The voltage on the battery has likely dipped to
2.9-3.0 volts; they get unreliable then (i.e. it's dead.) If you leave >> > it long enough you'll start getting RTC errors on POST.

I'd try that first, assuming you can still get the CMOS battery for
these.

Dan

Thanks Dan, will do. I was planning to take it apart soon to replace the >> HDD with an SSD, so this would be the first thing to check. I expect
finding a replacement unit will be difficult. Every Lenovo RTC battery
seems to have a different part number.

Some things are worth waiting for, others no so much. :-(

So, this laptop was taking longer and longer and longer to boot, until it eventually stopped booting 3-4 months ago:

When the power button is pressed the cooling fan spins for a second or
two,
then it stops. A few minutes later the CPU overheats and eventually it goes into a thermal shutdown. Using an external fan to push air through merely delays this process, but the laptop still does not boot. I am getting a black screen and no POST for many minutes until it cuts out.

I tried to reset the MoBo BIOS by pressing the power button with no
battery or mains connected. I also removed the newly replaced CMOS/RTC battery and pressed the power button, but the same failure mode remains after I reassembled everything.

Do I have:

1. Corrupted MoBo UEFI firmware?
2. A dying/dead chipset?
3. Something else?

Is there anything else I could possibly try?

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)