| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 28 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 51:30:39 |
| Calls: | 422 |
| Files: | 1,025 |
| Messages: | 90,554 |
Hi.
I currently run Debian 12 Stable, amd64.
Unexceptional single-user SOHO setup on a relatively current
(2023) low-end Dell laptop.
Intel Core i3 processor.
8Gb ram.
UEFI booting.
Internal nvme SSD, 256 Gb, for mass storage.
Partitions:
nvme0n1 259:0 0 238.5G 0 disk
├─nvme0n1p1 259:1 0 512M 0 part /boot/efi
├─nvme0n1p2 259:2 0 23.3G 0 part /
├─nvme0n1p3 259:3 0 9.3G 0 part /var
├─nvme0n1p4 259:4 0 977M 0 part [SWAP]
├─nvme0n1p5 259:5 0 1.9G 0 part /tmp
└─nvme0n1p6 259:6 0 202.6G 0 part /home
Note: 10 Gb for /var is barely adequate. I have to
periodically do surgery to cut out the built-up bloat there.
Since Debian 13 should soon be released, what should I be doing
ahead of time to prepare for the upgrade? For me, upgrading is
always a major hassle, so I try to make it as easy as possible.
Hi.
I currently run Debian 12 Stable, amd64.
Unexceptional single-user SOHO setup on a relatively current
(2023) low-end Dell laptop.
Intel Core i3 processor.
8Gb ram.
UEFI booting.
Internal nvme SSD, 256 Gb, for mass storage.
Partitions:
nvme0n1 259:0 0 238.5G 0 disk
├─nvme0n1p1 259:1 0 512M 0 part /boot/efi
├─nvme0n1p2 259:2 0 23.3G 0 part /
├─nvme0n1p3 259:3 0 9.3G 0 part /var
├─nvme0n1p4 259:4 0 977M 0 part [SWAP]
├─nvme0n1p5 259:5 0 1.9G 0 part /tmp
└─nvme0n1p6 259:6 0 202.6G 0 part /home
Note: 10 Gb for /var is barely adequate. I have to
periodically do surgery to cut out the built-up bloat there.
Since Debian 13 should soon be released, what should I be doing
ahead of time to prepare for the upgrade? For me, upgrading is
always a major hassle, so I try to make it as easy as possible.
OT rant (probably irrelevant):
The laptop does NOT support virtualization. The DOES, but the
BIOS does NOT!
Apparently the tightwads at Dell are punishing me for being poor.
"Hey dude, you've got a Dell!" Sorry to hear that . . .
(Grrr . . .)
Advice?
Since Debian 13 should soon be released, what should I be doingá
ahead of time to prepare for the upgrade? For me, upgrading isá
alwaysáa major hassle, so I try to make it as easy as possible.
Hi.
I currently run Debian 12 Stable, amd64.
Unexceptional single-user SOHO setup on a relatively current
(2023) low-end Dell laptop.
Intel Core i3 processor.
8Gb ram.
UEFI booting.
Internal nvme SSD, 256 Gb, for mass storage.
Partitions:
nvme0n1 259:0 0 238.5G 0 disk
├─nvme0n1p1 259:1 0 512M 0 part /boot/efi
├─nvme0n1p2 259:2 0 23.3G 0 part /
├─nvme0n1p3 259:3 0 9.3G 0 part /var
├─nvme0n1p4 259:4 0 977M 0 part [SWAP]
├─nvme0n1p5 259:5 0 1.9G 0 part /tmp
└─nvme0n1p6 259:6 0 202.6G 0 part /home
Note: 10 Gb for /var is barely adequate. I have to
periodically do surgery to cut out the built-up bloat there.
Since Debian 13 should soon be released, what should I be doing
ahead of time to prepare for the upgrade? For me, upgrading is
always a major hassle, so I try to make it as easy as possible.
OT rant (probably irrelevant):
The laptop does NOT support virtualization. The DOES, but the
BIOS does NOT!
Apparently the tightwads at Dell are punishing me for being poor.
"Hey dude, you've got a Dell!" Sorry to hear that . . .
(Grrr . . .)
Advice?
It's a bit late at this point, but why did you split your installation
into different partitions, fixed partitions no less, on a laptop with a single disk? That's the sort of thing you do with a server where you
have RAID, LVM, and possibly other advanced storage-related things going
on.
On Thu, May 15, 2025 at 05:30:51PM -0400, Default User wrote:
Hi.
I currently run Debian 12 Stable, amd64.
Unexceptional single-user SOHO setup on a relatively current
(2023) low-end Dell laptop.
Intel Core i3 processor.
8Gb ram.
UEFI booting.
Internal nvme SSD, 256 Gb, for mass storage.
Partitions:
nvme0n1 259:0 0 238.5G 0 disk
├─nvme0n1p1 259:1 0 512M 0 part /boot/efi
├─nvme0n1p2 259:2 0 23.3G 0 part /
├─nvme0n1p3 259:3 0 9.3G 0 part /var
├─nvme0n1p4 259:4 0 977M 0 part [SWAP]
├─nvme0n1p5 259:5 0 1.9G 0 part /tmp
└─nvme0n1p6 259:6 0 202.6G 0 part /home
Note: 10 Gb for /var is barely adequate. I have to
periodically do surgery to cut out the built-up bloat there.
Since Debian 13 should soon be released, what should I be doing
ahead of time to prepare for the upgrade? For me, upgrading is
always a major hassle, so I try to make it as easy as possible.
OT rant (probably irrelevant):
The laptop does NOT support virtualization. The DOES, but the
BIOS does NOT!
Apparently the tightwads at Dell are punishing me for being poor.
"Hey dude, you've got a Dell!" Sorry to hear that . . .
(Grrr . . .)
Advice?
If you don't have anything vital on there and can back up personal
data to something else - maybe reinstall with everything in one
partition?
Fixed partitioning is not great for the reasons others have outlined.
The other option if you feel confident taking a laptop apart is to go
and buy a 1TB NVME and an external case for an NVME.
Take the laptop apart - substitute the 1TB NVME.
Put the old 256M NVME in the external case.
Install a fresh copy of Debian onto the laptop.
Rsync or otherwise copy any data you need from the old drive.
Reformat old drive and use for storage.
Date: Thu, 15 May 2025 17:30:51 -0400
From: Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Preparing for Debian 13
Resent-Date: Thu, 15 May 2025 21:31:19 +0000 (UTC)
Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Hi.
I currently run Debian 12 Stable, amd64.
Unexceptional single-user SOHO setup on a relatively current
(2023) low-end Dell laptop.
Intel Core i3 processor.
8Gb ram.
UEFI booting.
Internal nvme SSD, 256 Gb, for mass storage.
Partitions:
nvme0n1 259:0 0 238.5G 0 disk
??nvme0n1p1 259:1 0 512M 0 part /boot/efi
??nvme0n1p2 259:2 0 23.3G 0 part /
??nvme0n1p3 259:3 0 9.3G 0 part /var
??nvme0n1p4 259:4 0 977M 0 part [SWAP]
??nvme0n1p5 259:5 0 1.9G 0 part /tmp
??nvme0n1p6 259:6 0 202.6G 0 part /home
Note: 10 Gb for /var is barely adequate. I have to
periodically do surgery to cut out the built-up bloat there.
Since Debian 13 should soon be released, what should I be doing
ahead of time to prepare for the upgrade? For me, upgrading is
always a major hassle, so I try to make it as easy as possible.
OT rant (probably irrelevant):
The laptop does NOT support virtualization. The DOES, but the
BIOS does NOT!
Apparently the tightwads at Dell are punishing me for being poor.
"Hey dude, you've got a Dell!" Sorry to hear that . . .
(Grrr . . .)
Advice?
Recently I created a virtual machine with qemu and virt-manager, and
unknown to me by default it creates the virtual disk in /var. As this
was not on its own partion but in the same as / it happily filled the
root partition and I got into a mess.
/var can grow significantly over time due to logs, databases, and
other persistent services, so I can understand why someone might put
it on its own partition.
/var can grow significantly over time due to logs, databases, and other persistent services, so I can understand why someone might put it on its
own partition.
Fun fact: I use rsync to do backups to and external usb hard drive. If
the external drive is not connected, rsync will, without any notice,
proceed to create a backup directory under /media, with the name of
the unconnected backup drive, and happily copy to it until / is
completely filled up. Annoying, but easily fixed. But with no
separate / partition, it seems to me that could be a real "train
wreck". That seems like one good reason to have a separate /
partition.
No virtualization?, my 15 year old dell e6500 has it.
Hi. Thanks for the replies!
Concerning the points raised:
1) sudo df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/nvme0n1p2 23G 8.7G 13G 41% /
/dev/nvme0n1p5 1.8G 140K 1.7G 1% /tmp
/dev/nvme0n1p6 199G 53G 136G 28% /home
/dev/nvme0n1p3 9.1G 2.9G 5.8G 34% /var
/dev/nvme0n1p1 511M 61M 451M 12% /boot/efi
(df does not show nvme0n1p4, which is the swap partition, 1Gb.)
/var, now at at 34% used, was just trimmed down from about 67%,
several days ago.
2) I could re-partition with Clonezilla and/or use rsync/Gparted from a Debian Live usb stick. But I might have to move and re-size several partitons, since if I just shrunk / to make more room for /var without
moving anything, I worry that it might make / too small.
3) I have never used lvm, so there would have a learning curve. I
never used it because I worried that it might be more "fragile" than
fixed partitions.
BTW, I have never used bind, and don't even know how
it works.
I would like to be able to do RAID setups,
and have NAS.
But for me, "everything is a function of time and money".
4) Many years ago, when I started using Debian, I just did everything
in /,
and later just / and /home.
I got into doing multiple partitions
later, when I used OpenBSD for a short time. They really advocated
using multiple partitions. I think it was so that if one partition
fills up, it is less likely that the whole filesystem will get screwed
up.
Fun fact: I use rsync to do backups to and external usb hard drive. If
the external drive is not connected, rsync will, without any notice,
proceed to create a backup directory under /media, with the name of the unconnected backup drive, and happily copy to it until / is completely
filled up. Annoying, but easily fixed. But with no separate /
partition, it seems to me that could be a real "train wreck". That
seems like one good reason to have a separate / partition.
5) I have never used BTRFS or ZFS. Both would require a learning curve (especially ZFS). I really think I would need much higher capacity
hardware to use ZFS. And I am used to using ext2/3/4. Be it ever so
humble, it "Just Works". (The older I get, the more I appreciate that.)
6) My current computer, like almost all newer laptops, has no access
panels, and requires special tools (and a LOT of skills) to open up and
work on. That's deliberate, of course. Now, they try very hard to force
you to buy a new machine, rather than repair and upgrade. For many
years, I worked on and even built my own machines. But that's no longer feasible for me. My current laptop does have internal space for an
additional SSD. But major surgery would be required.
7) For me, portability IS important. I have limited space, and the
smaller footprint of a laptop does come in handy. More importantly,
where I live, almost every year, I have to flee from at least one
hurricane.
Last year, it was twice within about 10 days! Not fun. Every time, I
can only load as much as I can fit into the car, and prepare myself for
the very real possibility that will be all I have in the world, once
the hurricane is over.
8) My laptop definitely does NOT support virtualization. FWIW, it is a
Dell Inspiron 3000, model 3511. The BIOS says it was manufactured in 2024-01. Unbelievable, since My previous laptop was an earlier
iteration of this model, made in 2014-08, which DID support
virtualization! As I said before, I really do believe that Dell is just
being cheap, cheap, cheap, and trying to punish poor people for being
poor. Isn't capitalism wonderful?
9) I imaged the original factory installed SSD Windows setup using Clonezilla, then erased the SSD and installed Debian, so Windows was
never used, and no Micro$oft account created. As most maids would say,
"I don't do Windows"!)
10) I always read the release note when upgrading. But I did not know
that Testing has release notes. Thanks for the tip.
11) I could, and many times have, done a fresh installation of a new
release rather than upgrading. A fresh install does allow a fresh
start, and can "cover a multitude of sins". But I would have to spend
weeks or more customizing my setup to "get it right". Decisions,
decisions . . .
Well, that's my story. Again, thanks for the input!
1) sudo df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/nvme0n1p2 23G 8.7G 13G 41% /
/dev/nvme0n1p5 1.8G 140K 1.7G 1% /tmp
Concerning the points raised:
Fun fact: I use rsync to do backups to and external usb hard drive. If
the external drive is not connected, rsync will, without any notice,
proceed to create a backup directory under /media, with the name of the unconnected backup drive, and happily copy to it until / is completely
filled up. Annoying, but easily fixed. But with no separate /
partition, it seems to me that could be a real "train wreck". That
seems like one good reason to have a separate / partition.
5) I have never used BTRFS or ZFS. Both would require a learning curve (especially ZFS). I really think I would need much higher capacity
hardware to use ZFS. And I am used to using ext2/3/4. Be it ever so
humble, it "Just Works". (The older I get, the more I appreciate that.)
Hi,
On Fri, May 16, 2025 at 06:56:11PM -0400, Default User wrote:
Concerning the points raised:
I still did not see any statement of which concrete problems or issues
you did actually want to tackle. For example it is a waste of time
people giving advice about the upgrade route if you have decided that
you do wish to fix your partitioning by means of a full reinstall.
(I'm not telling you that you should fix your partitioning or that you
should do a full reinstall. As you say, it's a matter of how much time
you have available and what your goals are.)
Moving to an advanced filesystem would bring more benefits that some
people say they can no longer live without, but there is maybe a steeper learning curve and changes that touch many things like how you do
backups for example.
Thanks,
Andy
On 2025-05-17, Andrew M.A. Cater <amacater@einval.com> wrote:
I found it easiest to just run the installer and say - use LVM, all files in one partition.
Is there no rapidity cost on lower-end machines?
Hi, OP again.
1) Regarding:
"Its unclear to me from OP's message whether OP actually wants to solve
the partition sizing issue or is just complaining about it and THEN
asking for unrelated Debian 13 upgrade tips."
I originally posted asking for general advice about upgrading to Debian
13 Stable, when it is released. The issue of partition sizing just
happened to come up in the discussion.
Thanks to all for the input regarding partition sizing and
alternatives. Maybe it is time for me to learn lvm.
2) Regarding:
"Why not enable tmp.mount (tmpfs)? In most use cases, /tmp is not
really utilized much – pointless to waste 2 GB of valuable NVME
capacity on that."
Tmp.mount is something else I don't know anything about. I should look
it up.
3). Regarding:
"Please tell us about your NAS."
Let me clarify: I do NOT have any NAS. (I wish I did!).
Unfortunately, I wrote:
"I would like to be able to do RAID setups, and have NAS."
I should have written:
"I would like to be able to do RAID setups, and I would
like to have an NAS."
I apologize for the confusion on this point.
4) Regarding rsync filling up /:
I don't mean to unnecessarily prolong the discussion. But let
me say that I do like rsnapshot, and do use it for my daily
backups to an external usb drive. Rsnapshot WILL complain and
refuse to run if the target external usb drive is not attached.
The problem is with rsync itself (which I like and use).
After I do the daily rsnapshot backup to external usb drive A,
I then use rsync to copy any changes from external usb drive A
to external usb drive B. (Yes, I know that is NOT recommended.
I really will try to improve/replace that part of my backup
routine "Real Soon Now".
:)
As mentioned previously, if the target usb drive B is not attached,
rsync by itself will create a mount point with the name of the usb
drive B in /media/[user home directory], and write to that until /
fills up.
Since I know almost no shell scripting, the rsync usb drive A
to usb drive B copy is done with a simple bash script consisting
only of the rsync backup command, with options and parameters, but
without any code to verify that usb drive B is attached.
I really should learn more shell scripting. That is something
else I will get to "Real Soon Now".
:)
5) Finally, regarding "what is filling up /var?":
IIRC, among other things, it includes .gz compressed log file backups, Flatpak crud, and /var/cache/apt/archives buildup.
I frequently do:
# apt-get autoremove
and
# apt-get autoclean
And when I really want to go on a diet, I do:
# apt-get clean
Thanks again to all!