| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 43 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 95:17:49 |
| Calls: | 290 |
| Files: | 904 |
| Messages: | 76,417 |
I know you won't use aptitude, so why don't you try running
synaptic on wayland, decide what changes you want, and then
use sudo apt to actually install/remove the packages.
On 28/12/2024 10:06, Andy Smith wrote:
On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 08:26:26PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:Synaptic is a GUI frontend to apt. It's not really much different to aptitude, except that it's maybe a bit more mouse-friendly.
When is that going to happen? Trying to maintain debian-arm stuff blind is aI have never in my life felt the need to use synaptic. What am I
pita. I want to SEE whats available.
missing out on?
I just use "apt" from a terminal. apticron emails me which updates are available.
Running headless servers but still wanting a GUI app on each and every
one of them to manage updates? Doesn't sound like the Linux I know!
You can't run a GUI on a headless server. That's the whole point of it
being headless. You can run X clients on the server and remotely
display that on a workstation (i.e. something _with_ a head)
You can run X clients on the server and remotely display that on a workstation (i.e. something _with_ a head), but AFAIK the wayland protocol doesn't support any sort of network transport (you can run a GUI application on a Wayland display by using Xwayland, but that's sort of by-the-by).
On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 12:53:41 +0000, Darac Marjal wrote:
You can run X clients on the server and remotely display that on a
workstation (i.e. something _with_ a head), but AFAIK the wayland protocol >> doesn't support any sort of network transport (you can run a GUI application >> on a Wayland display by using Xwayland, but that's sort of by-the-by).
Is this really true? And yet, they expect everyone to switch from X to Wayland, when this is true?
Copy/paste is a requirement for me also. If your terminal program
doesn't do what you want, take a look at the current version of xfce4-terminal - that has most of what I was looking for.
On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 12:53:41 +0000, Darac Marjal wrote:+10000000
You can run X clients on the server and remotely display that on aIs this really true? And yet, they expect everyone to switch from X to Wayland, when this is true?
workstation (i.e. something _with_ a head), but AFAIK the wayland protocol >> doesn't support any sort of network transport (you can run a GUI application >> on a Wayland display by using Xwayland, but that's sort of by-the-by).
No thank you.
.
Hi,
On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 12:53:41PM +0000, Darac Marjal wrote:
On 28/12/2024 10:06, Andy Smith wrote:That much I know. I am wondering what its killer feature is that Gene
On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 08:26:26PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:Synaptic is a GUI frontend to apt. It's not really much different to
When is that going to happen? Trying to maintain debian-arm stuff blind is aI have never in my life felt the need to use synaptic. What am I
pita. I want to SEE whats available.
missing out on?
aptitude, except that it's maybe a bit more mouse-friendly.
wants to work so hard to make it run on a headless single board computer
that one would think to be wholly unsuitable for running GUI apps.
I thought it was obvious that was what I was referring to, but clearlyI just use "apt" from a terminal. apticron emails me which updates areYou can't run a GUI on a headless server. That's the whole point of it
available.
Running headless servers but still wanting a GUI app on each and every
one of them to manage updates? Doesn't sound like the Linux I know!
being headless. You can run X clients on the server and remotely
display that on a workstation (i.e. something _with_ a head)
not.
Even that makes no sense to me in most cases, certainly not in the case
of multiple Banana Pi and a desktop that seems to run Wayland. Hence I
am suggesting that Gene is going in completely the wrong direction here.
Thanks,
Andy
On 12/27/24 23:36, David Wright wrote:
On Fri 27 Dec 2024 at 20:26:26 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:I would do that, except highlight/copypaste does not work with either agent. And at 90 yo, I have a hellofatime remembering 40+ character
When is that going to happen? Trying to maintain debian-arm stuffI know you won't use aptitude, so why don't you try running
blind is a pita. I want to SEE whats available.
synaptic on wayland, decide what changes you want, and then
use sudo apt to actually install/remove the packages.
command lines.
On 12/28/24 08:24, Andy Smith wrote:
On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 12:53:41PM +0000, Darac Marjal wrote:
Synaptic is a GUI frontend to apt. It's not really much different to aptitude, except that it's maybe a bit more mouse-friendly.That much I know. I am wondering what its killer feature is that Gene
wants to work so hard to make it run on a headless single board computer that one would think to be wholly unsuitable for running GUI apps.
armbian in the full desktop version runs noticeably slower than it runs on amd64 stuff, but its more than fast enough to run a full screen gui for a 3d printer.á I'll gladly tolerate a just noticeable lag that never crashes, uptimes from kernel update to kernel update, with klipper/moonraker/fluidd feeding nginx, broadcasting to any web browser in the house that is watching aliasname:80, in exchange for an 18 watt power draw (including its 24" AOL monitor) while sitting idle between jobs. I use firefox to localhost:80 on the local machine actually running the printer at speeds around 10x what it could do OOTB 4 years ago when it was new.
FWIW, I probably have another $2000 in better hdwe., much of which I
designed in OpenSCAD. I may ask what seems to be off the wall questions simply hoping to glean additional info because I enjoy plowing new ground
and making it work better.á Part of the upgrade is closed loop stepper/servos, because they have at least a 10x improvement in the accuracy of motor control. The error at the instant determines motor current, running at 7x speeds, average motor power is 30% of the burn your hand temps the usual setup does, it can even reverse a motor that overshoots, putting it back where it belongs using around 4x the instant power if it has to. The latest addition is a motorized nozzle cleaner, operated as part of the startup gcode.
I've got to get my web page up again, I lost it when those two seagate 2T drives went offline at 2 weeks accumulated runtime as I was trying make bookworm run now 18 months ago. It runs when it gets around to it, opening a local file is an automatic lockup for 30 seconds. And no one has identified that problem. Around 30 fresh installs with the only usb plugged in being
the wireless button for logitek keyboard/mouse but I still get orca and brltty yelling every keystroke at me thru my speakers. Yet when I question the broken bookworm installer, I catch hell from the powers that be here. Total denial that the problem exists has been the universal response.
armbian in the full desktop version runs noticeably slower than it runs on amd64 stuff, but its more than fast enough to run a full screen gui for a 3d printer.á I'll gladly tolerate a just noticeable lag that never crashes, uptimes from kernel update to kernel update, with klipper/moonraker/fluidd feeding nginx, broadcasting to any web browser in the house that is watching aliasname:80, in exchange for an 18 watt power draw (including its 24" AOL monitor) while sitting idle between jobs. I use firefox to localhost:80 on the local machine actually running the printer at speeds around 10x what it could do OOTB 4 years ago when it was new.
I've got to get my web page up again, I lost it when those two seagate 2T drives went offline at 2 weeks accumulated runtime as I was trying make bookworm run now 18 months ago. It runs when it gets around to it, opening a local file is an automatic lockup for 30 seconds. And no one has identified that problem. Around 30 fresh installs with the only usb plugged in being
the wireless button for logitek keyboard/mouse but I still get orca and brltty yelling every keystroke at me thru my speakers. Yet when I question the broken bookworm installer, I catch hell from the powers that be here. Total denial that the problem exists has been the universal response.
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
On 12/28/24 08:24, Andy Smith wrote:
Hi,
On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 12:53:41PM +0000, Darac Marjal wrote:
On 28/12/2024 10:06, Andy Smith wrote:That much I know. I am wondering what its killer feature is that Gene
On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 08:26:26PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:Synaptic is a GUI frontend to apt. It's not really much different to
When is that going to happen? Trying to maintain debian-arm stuff blind is aI have never in my life felt the need to use synaptic. What am I
pita. I want to SEE whats available.
missing out on?
aptitude, except that it's maybe a bit more mouse-friendly.
wants to work so hard to make it run on a headless single board computer that one would think to be wholly unsuitable for running GUI apps.
armbian in the full desktop version runs noticeably slower than it runs
on amd64 stuff, but its more than fast enough to run a full screen gui
for a 3d printer.
Hi,which from this below indicates I do it both ways.
On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 01:06:11PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
On 12/28/24 08:24, Andy Smith wrote:What would have been useful for you to tell us at this point or in any
On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 12:53:41PM +0000, Darac Marjal wrote:
Synaptic is a GUI frontend to apt. It's not really much different toThat much I know. I am wondering what its killer feature is that Gene
aptitude, except that it's maybe a bit more mouse-friendly.
wants to work so hard to make it run on a headless single board computer >>> that one would think to be wholly unsuitable for running GUI apps.
of your other replies:
- How exactly you are trying to run synaptic on these Banana Pi
computers, e.g. with display and keyboard/mouse directly attached and
you logged in through the Mate desktop environment, *or* over the
network by SSH in a terminal from another computer that is running the
Mate desktop environment.
What you instead chose to tell us:
armbian in the full desktop version runs noticeably slower than it runs on >> amd64 stuff, but its more than fast enough to run a full screen gui for a 3d >> printer. I'll gladly tolerate a just noticeable lag that never crashes,Thanks,
uptimes from kernel update to kernel update, with klipper/moonraker/fluidd >> feeding nginx, broadcasting to any web browser in the house that is watching >> aliasname:80, in exchange for an 18 watt power draw (including its 24" AOL >> monitor) while sitting idle between jobs. I use firefox to localhost:80 on >> the local machine actually running the printer at speeds around 10x what it >> could do OOTB 4 years ago when it was new.
FWIW, I probably have another $2000 in better hdwe., much of which I
designed in OpenSCAD. I may ask what seems to be off the wall questions
simply hoping to glean additional info because I enjoy plowing new ground
and making it work better. Part of the upgrade is closed loop
stepper/servos, because they have at least a 10x improvement in the accuracy >> of motor control. The error at the instant determines motor current, running >> at 7x speeds, average motor power is 30% of the burn your hand temps the
usual setup does, it can even reverse a motor that overshoots, putting it
back where it belongs using around 4x the instant power if it has to. The
latest addition is a motorized nozzle cleaner, operated as part of the
startup gcode.
I've got to get my web page up again, I lost it when those two seagate 2T
drives went offline at 2 weeks accumulated runtime as I was trying make
bookworm run now 18 months ago. It runs when it gets around to it, opening a >> local file is an automatic lockup for 30 seconds. And no one has identified >> that problem. Around 30 fresh installs with the only usb plugged in being
the wireless button for logitek keyboard/mouse but I still get orca and
brltty yelling every keystroke at me thru my speakers. Yet when I question >> the broken bookworm installer, I catch hell from the powers that be here.
Total denial that the problem exists has been the universal response.
Andy
On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 01:06:11PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:Then you are missing out on the many things a pi clone can do on 5% of
armbian in the full desktop version runs noticeably slower than it runs on >> amd64 stuff, but its more than fast enough to run a full screen gui for a 3d >> printer. I'll gladly tolerate a just noticeable lag that never crashes,Armbian is *NOT* Debian They do things differently there. Some of their images are based on Ubuntu, others on Debian. They usually use the BSP - Board Support Package - from the hardware vendor but that could be using any kernel. We've gone through all of this multiple times, Gene: the reason
uptimes from kernel update to kernel update, with klipper/moonraker/fluidd >> feeding nginx, broadcasting to any web browser in the house that is watching >> aliasname:80, in exchange for an 18 watt power draw (including its 24" AOL >> monitor) while sitting idle between jobs. I use firefox to localhost:80 on >> the local machine actually running the printer at speeds around 10x what it >> could do OOTB 4 years ago when it was new.
no one can support you on Armbian is because it's basically a different
and unknown quantity. It may be sufficently similar that we can extrapolate but it's like taking a Volkswagen into a Toyota dealer and anticipating they can fix it immediately with no prior knowledge. It might be like taking
an EV into your friendly mechanic who has never seen one - who knows how
long the learning curve is for all of us. That's before we get into the fact that most of us have never seen a BananaPi 5 and never will.
<snippage: interesting stuff on how to get lathes, machine tools, 3D printers to play nicely but irrelevant here>That is called putting the tech to work, more than earning its keep.
bs, I have described exactly what I've done but you treat it as TLDR.I've got to get my web page up again, I lost it when those two seagate 2TThe lock ups are indeterminate because you can't ever tell us what you've done
drives went offline at 2 weeks accumulated runtime as I was trying make
bookworm run now 18 months ago. It runs when it gets around to it, opening a >> local file is an automatic lockup for 30 seconds. And no one has identified >> that problem. Around 30 fresh installs with the only usb plugged in being
the wireless button for logitek keyboard/mouse but I still get orca and
brltty yelling every keystroke at me thru my speakers. Yet when I question >> the broken bookworm installer, I catch hell from the powers that be here.
Total denial that the problem exists has been the universal response.
to get into this state. At this point, bringing up orca and brltty is once again old news and not relevant. Ten days or two weeks ago, you promised
that this would be the end of this because you'd go and finally do a clean install as install 31. Please do so - simplify everything, unmount your RAID until you've done a basic install and come back when you can show history
of what you've done. I don't deny that you have problems but the vagueness
of response over a period of years doesn't help you plead your case.
And the bookworm install isn't irremediably broken - thousands of installs
by other people suggest that the problem may be yours and yours alone.
<snippage of similar incomprehension of exactly what it is you are doing
from Andy Smith>
All the very best, as ever,
Andrew Cater
(amacater@debian.org)
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET..
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
On 12/28/24 16:41, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
Armbian is *NOT* Debian They do things differently there [...]
Then you are missing out on the many things a pi clone can do on 5% of an amd64's power budget. Granted the amd64 can do it 20x faster, ignoring that the pi clone is fast enough. Debian seems to treat the arm64's a toy.
I'm running one, about a year old now, on an actual rpi4b to run my biggest lathe, but the last arm64 installer can't find its net interface even if you fill in the blanks. Armbian Just Works. Why can't debian-arm?
On 12/28/24 15:49, Andy Smith wrote:
What would have been useful for you to tell us at this point or in any
of your other replies:
- How exactly you are trying to run synaptic on these Banana Pi
computers, e.g. with display and keyboard/mouse directly attached and
you logged in through the Mate desktop environment, *or* over the
network by SSH in a terminal from another computer that is running the
Mate desktop environment.
What you instead chose to tell us:which from this below indicates I do it both ways.
Armbian is *NOT* Debian They do things differently there. Some of their [...]Then you are missing out on the many things a pi clone can do on 5% of an amd64's power budget. Granted the amd64 can do it 20x faster, ignoring that the pi clone is fast enough. Debian seems to treat the arm64's a toy.
FWIW, I've been using ARM-based SBCs for more than 10 years (4 different boards, I'm ashamed to say) and have used Debian on all of them. So no:
you don't need Armbian to make use of that kind of hardware.
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
FWIW, I've been using ARM-based SBCs for more than 10 years (4 differentOK, which ones?
boards, I'm ashamed to say) and have used Debian on all of them. So no:
you don't need Armbian to make use of that kind of hardware.
I'm only aware of the Rock64 and it's not exactly modern
or fully supported but would work for my purposes.
I've never used Debian's installer on those boards, and don't even know
if Debian officially "supports" them.
I've never used Debian's installer on those boards, and don't even knowSo how do you install Debian on those ARM boards? Put some image on
if Debian officially "supports" them.
whatever storage they have?
Sometimes I used cloned another system, and other times I used
Debootstrap running from one of the "images" provided by the board maker
(all those images suck, IMO: they're never designed with updates in mind).
When is that going to happen? Trying to maintain debian-arm stuff blind
is a pita. I want to SEE whats available.
Hi Gene
Am 28.12.24 um 02:26 schrieb gene heskett:
When is that going to happen? Trying to maintain debian-arm stuff blindI just switched KDE Plasma to wayland, to test.
is a pita. I want to SEE whats available.
synaptic-pkexec runs perfectly (without sudo). Why would you want to use sudo?
.
gene@bpi51e5p:~$ synaptic-pkexec
==== AUTHENTICATING FOR com.ubuntu.pkexec.synaptic ===
Authentication is required to run the Synaptic Package Manager
Authenticating as: Gene Heskett,,, (gene)
Password:
polkit-agent-helper-1: error response to PolicyKit daemon: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1.Error.Failed: No session for cookie ==== AUTHENTICATION FAILED ===
Error executing command as another user: Not authorized
This incident has been reported.
gene@bpi51e5p:~$
Whats it take to fix it? I am in the sudoers list.
On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 21:07:27 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
gene@bpi51e5p:~$ synaptic-pkexecWell, first thing: sudoers has nothing to do with it. Totally irrelevant.
==== AUTHENTICATING FOR com.ubuntu.pkexec.synaptic ===
Authentication is required to run the Synaptic Package Manager
Authenticating as: Gene Heskett,,, (gene)
Password:
polkit-agent-helper-1: error response to PolicyKit daemon:
GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1.Error.Failed: No session for cookie >> ==== AUTHENTICATION FAILED ===
Error executing command as another user: Not authorized
This incident has been reported.
gene@bpi51e5p:~$
Whats it take to fix it? I am in the sudoers list.
I entered your error message into a search engine, and found some useful-looking results:
<https://www.reddit.com/r/voidlinux/comments/set1s1/gdbuserrororgfreedesktoppolicykit1errorfailed_no/>
<https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/4h33rs/pkexec_authentication_failure/>
The first is from Void Linux, and the second from Debian. Both say
basically the same thing: you need to have some kind of "polkit agent" installed and running as part of your session.
I don't know how to get one of those running, but perhaps you can read
these results (or any other results that you get when you search for
your own error message, instead of waiting for other people to search
for you) and try some things.
.
On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 21:07:27 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
gene@bpi51e5p:~$ synaptic-pkexecWell, first thing: sudoers has nothing to do with it. Totally irrelevant.
==== AUTHENTICATING FOR com.ubuntu.pkexec.synaptic ===
Authentication is required to run the Synaptic Package Manager
Authenticating as: Gene Heskett,,, (gene)
Password:
polkit-agent-helper-1: error response to PolicyKit daemon:
GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1.Error.Failed: No session for cookie >> ==== AUTHENTICATION FAILED ===
Error executing command as another user: Not authorized
This incident has been reported.
gene@bpi51e5p:~$
Whats it take to fix it? I am in the sudoers list.
I entered your error message into a search engine, and found some useful-looking results:
<https://www.reddit.com/r/voidlinux/comments/set1s1/gdbuserrororgfreedesktoppolicykit1errorfailed_no/>
<https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/4h33rs/pkexec_authentication_failure/>
The first is from Void Linux, and the second from Debian. Both say
basically the same thing: you need to have some kind of "polkit agent" installed and running as part of your session.
I don't know how to get one of those running, but perhaps you can read
these results (or any other results that you get when you search for
your own error message, instead of waiting for other people to search
for you) and try some things.
.
On 12/27/24 21:30, Greg Wooledge wrote:
On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 21:07:27 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
gene@bpi51e5p:~$ synaptic-pkexecWell, first thing: sudoers has nothing to do with it. Totally
==== AUTHENTICATING FOR com.ubuntu.pkexec.synaptic ===
Authentication is required to run the Synaptic Package Manager
Authenticating as: Gene Heskett,,, (gene)
Password:
polkit-agent-helper-1: error response to PolicyKit daemon:
GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1.Error.Failed: No session for
cookie
==== AUTHENTICATION FAILED ===
Error executing command as another user: Not authorized
This incident has been reported.
gene@bpi51e5p:~$
Whats it take to fix it? I am in the sudoers list.
irrelevant.
I entered your error message into a search engine, and found some
useful-looking results:
<https://www.reddit.com/r/voidlinux/comments/set1s1/gdbuserrororgfreedesktoppolicykit1errorfailed_no/>
<https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/4h33rs/pkexec_authentication_failure/>
running htop discloses there is not anything pollkit related running.
How do we get that started?
Thanks.
The first is from Void Linux, and the second from Debian. Both say
basically the same thing: you need to have some kind of "polkit agent"
installed and running as part of your session.
I don't know how to get one of those running, but perhaps you can read
these results (or any other results that you get when you search for
your own error message, instead of waiting for other people to search
for you) and try some things.
.
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
<https://www.reddit.com/r/voidlinux/comments/set1s1/gdbuserrororgfreedesktoppolicykit1errorfailed_no/>
following this thread I installed policykit-gnome and policykit-mate but still misses the mark with a similar error msg:
gene@bpi51e5p:~$ synaptic-pkexec
==== AUTHENTICATING FOR com.ubuntu.pkexec.synaptic ===
Authentication is required to run the Synaptic Package Manager
Authenticating as: Gene Heskett,,, (gene)
Password:
polkit-agent-helper-1: error response to PolicyKit daemon: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1.Error.Failed: No session for cookie ==== AUTHENTICATION FAILED ===
Error executing command as another user: Not authorized
On 12/27/24 22:47, gene heskett wrote:
first its polkit, single el, and there's 3 copies of polkitd running
On 12/27/24 21:30, Greg Wooledge wrote:
On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 21:07:27 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
gene@bpi51e5p:~$ synaptic-pkexecWell, first thing: sudoers has nothing to do with it. Totally
==== AUTHENTICATING FOR com.ubuntu.pkexec.synaptic ===
Authentication is required to run the Synaptic Package Manager
Authenticating as: Gene Heskett,,, (gene)
Password:
polkit-agent-helper-1: error response to PolicyKit daemon:
GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1.Error.Failed: No session for
cookie
==== AUTHENTICATION FAILED ===
Error executing command as another user: Not authorized
This incident has been reported.
gene@bpi51e5p:~$
Whats it take to fix it? I am in the sudoers list.
irrelevant.
I entered your error message into a search engine, and found some
useful-looking results:
<https://www.reddit.com/r/voidlinux/comments/set1s1/gdbuserrororgfreedesktoppolicykit1errorfailed_no/>
<https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/4h33rs/pkexec_authentication_failure/>
running htop discloses there is not anything pollkit related
running. How do we get that started?
acc htop.
Thanks.
The first is from Void Linux, and the second from Debian. Both say
basically the same thing: you need to have some kind of "polkit agent"
installed and running as part of your session.
I don't know how to get one of those running, but perhaps you can read
these results (or any other results that you get when you search for
your own error message, instead of waiting for other people to search
for you) and try some things.
.
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
When is that going to happen? Trying to maintain debian-arm stuff
blind is a pita. I want to SEE whats available.
On Fri 27 Dec 2024 at 20:26:26 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:I would do that, except highlight/copypaste does not work with either
When is that going to happen? Trying to maintain debian-arm stuffI know you won't use aptitude, so why don't you try running
blind is a pita. I want to SEE whats available.
synaptic on wayland, decide what changes you want, and then
use sudo apt to actually install/remove the packages.
Cheers,
David.
.
When is that going to happen? Trying to maintain debian-arm stuff blind is a pita. I want to SEE whats available.