Mike Castle <dalgoda+debian@gmail.com> writes:

Out of curiosity, how do you raise windows?

I can raise windows by clicking into the title bar or by clicking the
window while holding the left mouse button.

Similarly, a copy of your FF prefs.js (sanitized, of course). This
file would be in your profile directory and contains only values that
are different from built in defaults.

I have grepped through prefs.js and haven't found anything that sounds
related, i.e. I have searched for "click", "focus", "rais",
"foreground", etc.

I also presume that this just recently started happening, and you have
tried restarting both FF and logging out/in just in case anything
wonky happened during some upgrade.

No, this has been from the installation of Debian 12 to this Laptop.
Before that, I had Xubuntu 20.04 (Ubuntu with XFCE) on another Laptop
that has crashed (broken mainboard). I also run Xubuntu 18.04 in a
VirtualBox on a Windows host. Both also configured to not raise on
click and focus follows mouse, and both behave as I want, i.e. firefox
also obeys these settings, like all other X11 programs.

Steve

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Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:

On 17/12/2024 18:55, keller.steve@gmx.de wrote:

I have grepped through prefs.js and haven't found anything that sounds related,

A shot in the dark: does switching between regular window title and client-side decorations changes anything? (right click menu for
toolbar, "customize toolbar")

What an amazing good shot. That was exactly it. It fixed the
unwanted raising of firefox's windows and also stops firefox from
doing its own title bars with different buttons (e.g. no "Roll Up").
I disliked this second behavior also but could live with it. Now,
both are working fine. So, thanks a lot.

And I didn't even know about that setting. So I'm surprised that
Debian sets it as default, as I am sure I haven't changed it.

I believed, it is up to window manager whether to raise application
window on its request or to just highlight it as requiring attention
in the taskbar.

That is my understanding, too.

Steve

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On Wed, Dec 25, 2024 at 07:11:11 +0000, keller.steve@gmx.de wrote:

Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:

A shot in the dark: does switching between regular window title and client-side decorations changes anything? (right click menu for
toolbar, "customize toolbar")

And I didn't even know about that setting. So I'm surprised that
Debian sets it as default, as I am sure I haven't changed it.

It's Firefox (upstream) that does it by default.

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On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 10:10:47 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 25/12/2024 14:11, keller.steve@gmx.de wrote:

Max Nikulin writes:

does switching between regular window title and
client-side decorations changes anything? (right click menu for
toolbar, "customize toolbar")

That was exactly it. It fixed the
unwanted raising of firefox's windows and also stops firefox from
doing its own title bars with different buttons (e.g. no "Roll Up").

You may try to search for mozilla, window manager (fvwm?), gtk bugs or discussions related to client-side decoration and rising on click. Are there other applications that use CSD and behave in a similar way?

Google Chrome also did this thing, I believe, until I configured it.
But it was so long ago that I don't remember what I changed, exactly.

Another program that exhibits this behavior right now is Steam.
When I launch Steam, it sometimes tries to pop up a window showing
current sales promotions or whatever. However, it's impossible to
raise the sales promotion window to the top so that I can actually
see all of its contents. It's permanently stuck beneath the main
game window, until I just close it. I can slide it around the screen
and see part of the content, but that's it.

The idea that your application should do its own window management
because the user's chosen WM may differ from what you, the developer,
wanted is utter hubris. Especially when you can't even get it to
work the way you thought it should.

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On Wed, Dec 25, 2024 at 10:17:02PM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:

[...]

The idea that your application should do its own window management
because the user's chosen WM may differ from what you, the developer,
wanted is utter hubris. Especially when you can't even get it to
work the way you thought it should.

It's not hubris. It's the idea that public space, your computer, your
eyeballs, your brain (in roughly that order) belong to surveillance
capitalism (a malign mutation of the already malign ad industry).

It's the "new frontier" [1] of capitalist accumulation. Robbery, as
it has always been.

Merry XMas.

[1] https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2024/02/how-the-frontier-became-the-slogan-of-uncontrolled-ai.html
--
t


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On Thursday, 26 December 2024 00:10:47 -03 Max Nikulin wrote:

On 25/12/2024 14:11, keller.steve@gmx.de wrote:

Max Nikulin writes:

does switching between regular window title and
client-side decorations changes anything? (right click menu for
toolbar, "customize toolbar")

That was exactly it. It fixed the
unwanted raising of firefox's windows and also stops firefox from
doing its own title bars with different buttons (e.g. no "Roll Up").

You may try to search for mozilla, window manager (fvwm?), gtk bugs or discussions related to client-side decoration and rising on click.
Are there other applications that use CSD and behave in a similar
way?

Hi,
I found Zotero and the Telegram-Desktop client behave in the same way.
There does not seem to be a setup pertaining to that behaviour for those applications.
In my case on KDE 24 and Sid.
All the best
--
Eike Lantzsch KY4PZ / ZP5CGE

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