• Re: Categorially refusing to exercise DPL powers

    From Russ Allbery@21:1/5 to G. Branden Robinson on Thu May 8 22:50:01 2025
    "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> writes:

    I agree. We haven't established a precedent for the DPL's exercise of ยง5.1.5 power despite its availability for over 25 years.

    Sam proposed several options in https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002
    under ยง5.1.5 as DPL.

    --
    Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

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  • From Sam Hartman@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 9 03:10:01 2025
    "G" == G Branden Robinson <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> writes:


    G> Aha! Thanks!

    G> Did the heavens fall? ;-)

    A little bit. I actually think we had a bit more trouble with the
    voting system than we did with the DPL proposing options.
    Among other things, there was friction with the DPL both being able to
    propose options and (as a member) to be able to call for a vote. There
    was friction between my desire to actually get things to a vote and
    a desire for a late arriving option.
    we've resolved that by updating the voting system.

    I would encourage future DPLs to propose GRs.
    My experience was that most of the people interested in developing
    options were fairly invested in the topic at hand (init
    systems/systemd.)
    So you tended to draw out the most extreme options.

    I did have an opinion on the issue, and by the time the vote concluded a
    much stronger opinion than I had when I drafted the options.
    but I was in a position to listen to a bunch of people and to try and
    pull apart some options in the middle of the spectrum that apparently
    appealed to the voters even if none of the people most invested in the
    issue would have been motivated to propose those options.

    The init system discussion was still very charged. But I think having
    those options allowed us to move past that discussion in ways that the
    previous discussions before the TC and previous attempts at a GR did
    not.
    All that previous work was very important in setting the stage and
    letting us cogitate.

    So, yes, that GR is one of those things I look back on with significant
    pride. I would encourage future DPLs to consider that tool. But I think
    a DPL needs to be careful to use that power to drive project decisions
    and to make sure that a diverse set of points of view are represented on
    the ballot.

    In effect I tried to sponsor options that I thought were in the cloud of possibility around project consensus.
    I withdrew one of my options because other people took it on with
    slightly different wording and I did not see much difference in effect.

    Another group wanted me to sponsor an option that was even more pro init diversity. I didn't because I thought that option was too far outside of
    what the project was interested in: I thought we already had a
    consensus against that direction. They got enough sponsors on their own,
    and my reading of the vote suggests my guess that we had already decided against that direction was correct.

    A couple of other people came forward with options. For example Ian had
    a proposal that was a different compromise than the ones I approached.

    I think all together we did a good job of having the options on the
    table so that everyone felt there was at least one option on the ballot
    that was a good fit for their position.

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