• Re: Exploring forgejo as alternative to salsa ? (Was Re: Private code:

    From Marco d'Itri@21:1/5 to Matthias Geiger on Thu May 22 14:40:01 2025
    On May 22, Matthias Geiger <werdahias@riseup.net> wrote:

    I think at the very least it's worth exploring its use parallel to
    salsa, so we aren't negatively surprised one day.
    Good idea: I propose that once a year you report to debian-project@
    a comparison of the features available in Gitlab and forgejo.

    --
    ciao,
    Marco

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  • From Jonathan Dowland@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 22 15:40:01 2025
    The formatting of this was mangled so I couldn't figure out which parts
    of the mail were quotes and which weren't.



    --
    Please do not CC me for listmail.

    👱🏻 Jonathan Dowland
    jmtd@debian.org
    🔗 https://jmtd.net

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  • From Andrey Rakhmatullin@21:1/5 to Jonathan Dowland on Thu May 22 15:50:01 2025
    On Thu, May 22, 2025 at 02:30:13PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
    The formatting of this was mangled so I couldn't figure out which
    parts of the mail were quotes and which weren't.

    It's, again, related to format=flowed.

    --
    WBR, wRAR

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  • From Joerg Jaspert@21:1/5 to Matthias Geiger on Thu May 22 17:50:02 2025
    On 17602 March 1977, Matthias Geiger wrote:

    While it is not that mature yet and some features are still being
    worked
    on, I think it already suitable to host small, non-key packages.

    I would like a switch, but i think its currently not realistic.

    On the techical side of things:

    To give people a hint on what salsa hosts currently:

    84459 projects (repositories)
    16247 users
    759 groups

    33189 forks
    16292 Issues
    70945 Merge Requests
    600795 Notes (not a type, yes, 600k)
    8057 SSH keys
    360 Milestones

    838219 pipelines total
    504742 pipelines succeeded

    This runs on a machine with
    8 cores
    64G RAM (currently 27G used)
    3TB disk space

    plus whatever Salsa runners.

    The CI runners use a yml format [1], which would allow (almost) a
    seamless similar salsa ci setup.

    Only that forgejo is using an *entirely* different CI thingie/format and
    one needs to adjust it all. It's github like, very different handling.

    While it is not impossible to change, I *currently* think its not time
    well spent. Time from a *lot* of people, not just Salsa admins.

    --
    bye, Joerg

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  • From Daniel Baumann@21:1/5 to Joerg Jaspert on Thu May 22 18:40:02 2025
    On 5/22/25 17:41, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
    I *currently* think its not time well spent. Time from a *lot* of people, not just Salsa admins.

    yes, *this*.

    apart from what I already wrote [0][1], please try to not follow up on
    this topic for now:

    * there's no forgejo in the archive yet - the packaging needs to be
    finished and a bunch of golang-* packages are in NEW. this will
    take a while to be processed and to get everything perfectly right.

    * there's a release to be made - please help fixing RC bugs everyone!

    Regards,
    Daniel

    [0] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2025/05/msg00319.html
    [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2025/05/msg00331.html

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  • From Matthias Geiger@21:1/5 to Joerg Jaspert on Thu May 22 18:40:01 2025
    On Thu, 22 May 2025 17:41, Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> wrote:
    On 17602 March 1977, Matthias Geiger wrote:

    While it is not that mature yet and some features are still being
    worked
    on, I think it already suitable to host small, non-key packages.

    I would like a switch, but i think its currently not realistic.
    Thanks for the vote of confidence; I concur that this might be a nice
    goal in the long run.
    On the techical side of things:

    To give people a hint on what salsa hosts currently:

    84459 projects (repositories)
    16247 users
    759 groups

    33189 forks
    16292 Issues
    70945 Merge Requests
    600795 Notes (not a type, yes, 600k)
    8057 SSH keys
    360 Milestones

    838219 pipelines total
    504742 pipelines succeeded

    This runs on a machine with
    8 cores
    64G RAM (currently 27G used)
    3TB disk space

    plus whatever Salsa runners.

    Nice to have the raw numbers; > 16k users is indeed a lot.
    The most recent number I could find for codeberg was 11k users and 12k
    repos.
    [0]
    The CI runners use a yml format [1], which would allow (almost) a
    seamless similar salsa ci setup.

    Only that forgejo is using an *entirely* different CI thingie/format and
    one needs to adjust it all. It's github like, very different handling.
    Ah, I see, this needs some work then. Time permitting I will look into
    this.
    While it is not impossible to change, I *currently* think its not time
    well spent. Time from a *lot* of people, not just Salsa admins.

    Right, as stated in my mail, I think this is not something we should do
    *right now*, but rather something carefully planned (if the majority
    agrees), and then switched on a flag day sometime in the future.
    TTBOMK salsa does not use the debian-packaged GitLab, so IMVHO this
    would also speak for the switch (use our own packages to host things).

    best,

    werdahias

    Links:

    [0]: https://blog.codeberg.org/monthly-report-may-2021-preparing-the-new-server.html

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  • From Matthias Geiger@21:1/5 to Marco d'Itri on Thu May 22 18:30:01 2025
    On Thu, 22 May 2025 14:36, Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> wrote:
    On May 22, Matthias Geiger <werdahias@riseup.net> wrote:

    I think at the very least it's worth exploring its use parallel to
    salsa, so we aren't negatively surprised one day.
    Good idea: I propose that once a year you report to debian-project@
    a comparison of the features available in Gitlab and forgejo.

    This is not was I stated in my mail; and it's obvious that both will
    never be 100% equal in terms of functionality. This is not helpful for
    the discussion.

    best,

    werdahias

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  • From Marc Haber@21:1/5 to werdahias@riseup.net on Thu May 22 21:00:02 2025
    On Thu, 22 May 2025 18:10:54 +0200, Matthias Geiger
    <werdahias@riseup.net> wrote:
    Nice to have the raw numbers; > 16k users is indeed a lot.
    The most recent number I could find for codeberg was 11k users and 12k
    repos.

    Salsa happens to be one of the largest gitlab instances that exist.

    Greetings
    Marc
    --
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
    Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

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  • From Jan Claeys@21:1/5 to Matthias Geiger on Thu May 22 21:00:02 2025
    On Thu, 2025-05-22 at 18:10 +0200, Matthias Geiger wrote:
    Nice to have the raw numbers; > 16k users is indeed a lot.
    The most recent number I could find for codeberg was 11k users and
    12k repos.

    FWIW: based on the "Explore" pages there seem to be ~161k repositories,
    ~157k users and ~11k organisations (~teams) on Codeberg now.


    --
    Jan Claeys

    (please don't CC me when replying to the list)

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  • From Joerg Jaspert@21:1/5 to Matthias Geiger on Thu May 22 22:50:01 2025
    On 17602 March 1977, Matthias Geiger wrote:

    I would like a switch, but i think its currently not realistic.
    Thanks for the vote of confidence; I concur that this might be a nice
    goal in the long run.

    I use forgejo for my own things. I like it. (Its 6 or 7 repos...).

    While it is not impossible to change, I *currently* think its not time
    well spent. Time from a *lot* of people, not just Salsa admins.
    Right, as stated in my mail, I think this is not something we should
    do
    *right now*, but rather something carefully planned (if the majority
    agrees), and then switched on a flag day sometime in the future.
    TTBOMK salsa does not use the debian-packaged GitLab, so IMVHO this
    would also speak for the switch (use our own packages to host things).

    Salsa uses a self-compiled gitlab, yes. It's one of the things that
    would have to be explored/discussed in a session somewhere in Reallife,
    with people from DSA and Salsa Admins. If we ever get to the point that
    a switch is feasible. There is a lot that could be made simpler when
    redoing the setup.
    (Also, I would think it would be a flag week/weekend, rather than a
    day).

    --
    bye, Joerg

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  • From Joerg Jaspert@21:1/5 to Daniel Baumann on Thu May 22 22:50:01 2025
    On 17602 March 1977, Daniel Baumann wrote:

    I *currently* think its not time well spent. Time from a *lot* of
    people, not just Salsa admins.
    * there's no forgejo in the archive yet - the packaging needs to be
    finished and a bunch of golang-* packages are in NEW. this will
    take a while to be processed and to get everything perfectly
    right.

    Honestly, the packaging is the least important thing. Sure, it would be
    nice to have it in Debian - but if you run this service, you won't
    really be basing it on a package in Debian. But some other way to keep
    it current. (It may be a package, even, but I doubt it will be installed
    from the standard archive.)

    --
    bye, Joerg

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  • From Daniel Baumann@21:1/5 to Joerg Jaspert on Fri May 23 06:50:01 2025
    On 5/22/25 22:47, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
    Honestly, the packaging is the least important thing.

    the point I was trying to make is that the implied argument/momentum of
    "let's switch from gitlab to forgejo because forgejo is in Debian and
    gitlab is not" is all hypothetical at this point.

    if there would actually be a consensus to switch from gitlab to forgejo,
    it should be done because (after evaluation) it turns out it's the
    better tool to fit the job - personally, I doubt that - while I prefer
    forgejo, it does have less feature than gitlab and I think people
    woudn't want to miss them.

    if you run this service, you won't really be basing it on a package in Debian.

    s/you/someone/

    besides that, yes, I'm very aware that the setup of a large, HA forge is
    way different from a setup at home ('sudo apt install forgejo' and be
    'done'). I for sure do not expect people running it using the forgejo
    package from Debian, however and given all the hypotheticals, of course
    I'd merge anything that would make help/make it easier doing so.

    Regards,
    Daniel

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  • From Gioele Barabucci@21:1/5 to Matthias Geiger on Fri May 23 14:20:02 2025
    On 22/05/25 18:10, Matthias Geiger wrote:
    On Thu, 22 May 2025 17:41, Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> wrote:
    On 17602 March 1977, Matthias Geiger wrote:

    While it is not that mature yet and some features are still being
    worked on, I think it already suitable to host small, non-key packages.

    I would like a switch, but i think its currently not realistic.
    Thanks for the vote of confidence; I concur that this might be a nice
    goal in the long run.

    A few weeks ago I brought up a few points during a discussion on
    #d-mentors about forgejo (and other alternatives to GitLab) and I
    believe these points are also relevant in this thread:

    a) Debian must plan a post-Gitlab future because GitLab (the org) will
    stop one day providing FLOSS/DFSG-compliant sources.

    b) That day is not tomorrow; there is no need to push too much now.

    c) forgejo is the only viable forge alternative.

    d) forgejo's CI (and external tools like woodpecker) are way behind what
    Salsa CI requires and are not integrated UI-wise into the forge.

    e) glab is a very good CLI; forgejo has no equivalent CLI.

    f) It makes no sense to plan how to move away from GitLab before
    forgejo(+CI) reaches parity.

    g) Whatever replaces GitLab must support 100% of what is needed to run tag2upload (including all security-relevant details and assurances).

    Regards,

    --
    Gioele Barabucci

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