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Attracting newcomerseven just a DM, in a situation where I only maintain a handful of
--------------------
In my own talk[mt3], I regret not leaving enough time for questions--my apologies for this. However, I want to revisit the sole question raised, which essentially asked: Is the documentation for newcomers sufficient
to attract new contributors? My immediate response was that this
question is best directed to new contributors themselves, as they are in
the best position to identify gaps and suggest improvements that could
make the documentation more helpful.
That said, I'm personally convinced that our challenges extend beyond
just documentation. I don't get the impression that newcomers are lining
up to join Debian only to be deterred by inadequate documentation. The
issue might be more about fostering interest and engagement in the first place.
My personal impression is that we sometimes fail to convey that Debian
is not just a product to download for free but also a technical
challenge that warmly invites participation. Everyone who respects our
Code of Conduct will find that Debian is a highly diverse community,
where joining the project offers not only opportunities for technical contributions but also meaningful social interactions that can make the effort and time truly rewarding.
In several of my previous talks (you can find them on my talks page[mt4]--just search for "team," and don't be deterred if you see
"Debian Med" in the title; it's simply an example), I emphasized that
the interaction between a mentor and a mentee often plays a far more significant role than the documentation the mentee has to read. The key
to success has always been finding a way to spark the mentee's interest
in a specific topic that resonates with their own passions.
From personal experience, jumping through hoops to become a DD, or
(non-subscriber; please keep me in CC whenever reply to this)[...]
ma 2.12.2024 klo 18.33 Andreas Tille (tille@debian.org) kirjoitti:
Attracting newcomers
From personal experience, jumping through hoops to become a DD, or[...]
even just a DM, in a situation where I only maintain a handful of
packages and randomly contribute patches to other packages (or
overhaul the packaging before handing the package over to its next maintainer) simply hasn't been worth the troubles.
Attracting newcomers
--------------------
In my own talk[mt3], I regret not leaving enough time for questions--my apologies for this. However, I want to revisit the sole question raised, which essentially asked: Is the documentation for newcomers sufficient
to attract new contributors? My immediate response was that this
question is best directed to new contributors themselves, as they are in
the best position to identify gaps and suggest improvements that could
make the documentation more helpful.
That said, I'm personally convinced that our challenges extend beyond
just documentation. I don't get the impression that newcomers are lining
up to join Debian only to be deterred by inadequate documentation. The
issue might be more about fostering interest and engagement in the first place.
Would I bother to go through NM now if the process were more simplified/streamlined? Maybe, but probably not. As you noted,
priorities matter and it's entirely possible to be involved in
Debian without that (depending on what exactly you want to do of
course). There's quite a lot that doesn't require upload permissions
in the archive, and also quite a lot of amazing people with upload permissions who are happy to help on the occasions it's needed.
The fallacy is to assume that just because someone contributed a
patch, their next step is to quit their dayjob and become a full-time contributor.
On 2024-12-02 19:09:33 +0200 (+0200), Martin-Éric Racine wrote:
(non-subscriber; please keep me in CC whenever reply to this)
ma 2.12.2024 klo 18.33 Andreas Tille (tille@debian.org) kirjoitti:[...]
Attracting newcomers
From personal experience, jumping through hoops to become a DD, or[...]
even just a DM, in a situation where I only maintain a handful of
packages and randomly contribute patches to other packages (or
overhaul the packaging before handing the package over to its next maintainer) simply hasn't been worth the troubles.
I'll just say you're not alone. I've been around the Debian
community since pre-Y2K and, if I'd cared, could probably have been
a DD rather easily when the requirements were little more than say
'hi' and have enough DD signatures on your key.
Would I bother to go through NM now if the process were more simplified/streamlined? Maybe, but probably not. As you noted,
priorities matter and it's entirely possible to be involved in
Debian without that (depending on what exactly you want to do of
course). There's quite a lot that doesn't require upload permissions
in the archive, and also quite a lot of amazing people with upload permissions who are happy to help on the occasions it's needed.
On Monday, December 2, 2024 9:32:27 AM MST Andreas Tille wrote:
Attracting newcomers
--------------------
In my own talk[mt3], I regret not leaving enough time for questions--my
apologies for this. However, I want to revisit the sole question raised,
which essentially asked: Is the documentation for newcomers sufficient
to attract new contributors? My immediate response was that this
question is best directed to new contributors themselves, as they are in
the best position to identify gaps and suggest improvements that could
make the documentation more helpful.
That said, I'm personally convinced that our challenges extend beyond
just documentation. I don't get the impression that newcomers are lining
up to join Debian only to be deterred by inadequate documentation. The
issue might be more about fostering interest and engagement in the first
place.
I think one of the best things we could do to attract new contributors, and to
encourage those who are currently Sponsored Maintainers to become Debian Maintainers, and those who are current Debian Maintainers to become Debian Developers would be to create an official DPL Mentors Delegation.
Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> writes:and
On Monday, December 2, 2024 9:32:27 AM MST Andreas Tille wrote:
Attracting newcomers
--------------------
In my own talk[mt3], I regret not leaving enough time for questions--my
apologies for this. However, I want to revisit the sole question raised, >> which essentially asked: Is the documentation for newcomers sufficient
to attract new contributors? My immediate response was that this
question is best directed to new contributors themselves, as they are in >> the best position to identify gaps and suggest improvements that could
make the documentation more helpful.
That said, I'm personally convinced that our challenges extend beyond
just documentation. I don't get the impression that newcomers are lining >> up to join Debian only to be deterred by inadequate documentation. The
issue might be more about fostering interest and engagement in the first >> place.
I think one of the best things we could do to attract new contributors,
Debianto encourage those who are currently Sponsored Maintainers to become
Maintainers, and those who are current Debian Maintainers to become Debian Developers would be to create an official DPL Mentors Delegation.
I dont disagree with anything you wrote, but i think people are looking
at "Needs a DD to make the process work" and assuming that the only
solution is to increase the number of DDs. But the process itself can
also be changed.
at least some of the feedback so far is that people want to contribute without having to be a DD
Number of packages not on Salsa
-------------------------------
In my campaign, I stated [os1] that I aimed to reduce the number of
packages maintained outside Salsa to below 2,000. As of March 28, 2024,
the count was 2,368. As of this writing, the count stands at 1,928
[os2], so I consider this promise fulfilled. My thanks go out to
everyone who contributed to this effort. Moving forward, I’d like to set
a more ambitious goal for the remainder of my term and hope we can
reduce the number to below 1,800.
[os1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2024/03/msg00057.html
[os2] UDD query:
SELECT DISTINCT count(*) FROM sources WHERE release = 'sid' and vcs_url not like '%salsa%' ;