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The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in was a
team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past at the earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in which to
potentially overtake him and win the race.
On 2024-07-21 17:19, Geoff wrote:
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in was
a team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past at
the earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in
which to potentially overtake him and win the race.
I don't know about that.
I think the reference to the "Sunday morning briefings" (or words to
that effect) was a reference to an agreement that past a certain point
in the race whatever the order was at that point would be the order for
the finish.
On 7/21/2024 19:22, Alan wrote:
On 2024-07-21 17:19, Geoff wrote:
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in
was a team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past at
the earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in
which to potentially overtake him and win the race.
I don't know about that.
I think the reference to the "Sunday morning briefings" (or words to
that effect) was a reference to an agreement that past a certain point
in the race whatever the order was at that point would be the order
for the finish.
Granted, I may be really overthinking this, but why am I having thoughts
of Imola 1982?
On Mon, 22 Jul 2024 0:19:10 +0000, Geoff wrote:
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in was a
team tactic.
Yeah, but it was the wrong team tactic. Which Norris shouldn't have had
to pay for as he did nothing wrong.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past at the
earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in which to
potentially overtake him and win the race.
The term "race" is not apt as it ended up being a procession decided by
team orders and not cars on the track.
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in was a
team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past at the earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in which to potentially overtake him and win the race.
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in was a
team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past at the earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in which to
potentially overtake him and win the race.
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in was a
team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past at the earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in which to
potentially overtake him and win the race.
geoff
On 7/22/24 02:19, Geoff wrote:
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in was
a team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past at
the earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in
which to potentially overtake him and win the race.
geoff
Maybe, but he had to slow down and give away a good part of his lead
which is risky.
Well at least he didn't say -go swivel-.
Geoff <geoff@geoffwood.org> wrote:
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in was a
team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past at the
earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in which to
potentially overtake him and win the race.
Difficult to imagine this sort of situation arising when Ron Dennis was in charge (also difficult to imagine Schumacher/Senna/Vettel complying).
Given that Norris is well ahead of Piastri in the WDC, McLaren should have let Lando win. Tough on Oscar, but F1 is a tough sport and his day will
come.
With McLaren apparently dominant it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that Norris could win the WDC - I just hope he doesn’t miss out by less than 7 points
On 2024-07-22 00:14, Sir Tim wrote:
Geoff <geoff@geoffwood.org> wrote:
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in was a >>> team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past at the >>> earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in which to >>> potentially overtake him and win the race.
Difficult to imagine this sort of situation arising when Ron Dennis
was in
charge (also difficult to imagine Schumacher/Senna/Vettel complying).
Given that Norris is well ahead of Piastri in the WDC, McLaren should
have
let Lando win. Tough on Oscar, but F1 is a tough sport and his day will
come.
With McLaren apparently dominant it is not beyond the bounds of
possibility
that Norris could win the WDC - I just hope he doesn’t miss out by less
than 7 points
Based on what I read of Norris's remarks after the race, I think there
was pretty clearly an agreement between the two drivers that if one of
them was ahead at some still-unknown earlier point in the race, then
that driver would get the win.
On 7/22/24 02:19, Geoff wrote:
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in was
a team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past at
the earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in
which to potentially overtake him and win the race.
geoff
Maybe, but he had to slow down and give away a good part of his lead
which is risky.
Well at least he didn't say -go swivel-.
On 23/07/2024 7:23 am, Alan wrote:
On 2024-07-22 00:14, Sir Tim wrote:
Geoff <geoff@geoffwood.org> wrote:
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in
was a
team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past at
the
earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in
which to
potentially overtake him and win the race.
Difficult to imagine this sort of situation arising when Ron Dennis
was in
charge (also difficult to imagine Schumacher/Senna/Vettel complying).
Given that Norris is well ahead of Piastri in the WDC, McLaren should
have
let Lando win. Tough on Oscar, but F1 is a tough sport and his day will
come.
With McLaren apparently dominant it is not beyond the bounds of
possibility
that Norris could win the WDC - I just hope he doesn’t miss out by less >>> than 7 points
Based on what I read of Norris's remarks after the race, I think there
was pretty clearly an agreement between the two drivers that if one of
them was ahead at some still-unknown earlier point in the race, then
that driver would get the win.
Yeah but from lap 44 (was it) of 70 ?!!! Plenty of opportunity for real racing between them both after that and for NOR to potentially regain
his place, if the could ...
geoff
On 7/21/2024 19:22, Alan wrote:
On 2024-07-21 17:19, Geoff wrote:
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in
was a team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past
at the earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps
in which to potentially overtake him and win the race.
I don't know about that.
I think the reference to the "Sunday morning briefings" (or words to
that effect) was a reference to an agreement that past a certain
point in the race whatever the order was at that point would be the
order for the finish.
Granted, I may be really overthinking this, but why am I having
thoughts of Imola 1982?
Geoff <geoff@geoffwood.org> wrote:
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in was a
team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past at the
earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in which to
potentially overtake him and win the race.
Difficult to imagine this sort of situation arising when Ron Dennis was in charge (also difficult to imagine Schumacher/Senna/Vettel complying).
Given that Norris is well ahead of Piastri in the WDC, McLaren should have let Lando win. Tough on Oscar, but F1 is a tough sport and his day will
come.
With McLaren apparently dominant it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that Norris could win the WDC - I just hope he doesn’t miss out by less than 7 points
On 2024-07-22 19:50, Geoff wrote:
On 23/07/2024 7:23 am, Alan wrote:
On 2024-07-22 00:14, Sir Tim wrote:
Geoff <geoff@geoffwood.org> wrote:
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in
was a
team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past
at the
earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in
which to
potentially overtake him and win the race.
Difficult to imagine this sort of situation arising when Ron Dennis
was in
charge (also difficult to imagine Schumacher/Senna/Vettel complying).
Given that Norris is well ahead of Piastri in the WDC, McLaren
should have
let Lando win. Tough on Oscar, but F1 is a tough sport and his day will >>>> come.
With McLaren apparently dominant it is not beyond the bounds of
possibility
that Norris could win the WDC - I just hope he doesn’t miss out by less >>>> than 7 points
Based on what I read of Norris's remarks after the race, I think
there was pretty clearly an agreement between the two drivers that if
one of them was ahead at some still-unknown earlier point in the
race, then that driver would get the win.
Yeah but from lap 44 (was it) of 70 ?!!! Plenty of opportunity for
real racing between them both after that and for NOR to potentially
regain his place, if the could ...
geoff
Team orders have been a part of F1 since forever.
Teams make these agreements to make sure their drivers don't take each
other out.
I don't know for certain if there was an agreement or what it was, but
if there WAS an agreement, then Norris should be applauded for living up
to his agreements.
On 23/07/2024 6:15 pm, Alan wrote:
On 2024-07-22 19:50, Geoff wrote:
On 23/07/2024 7:23 am, Alan wrote:
On 2024-07-22 00:14, Sir Tim wrote:
Geoff <geoff@geoffwood.org> wrote:
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in >>>>>> was a
team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past
at the
earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in
which to
potentially overtake him and win the race.
Difficult to imagine this sort of situation arising when Ron Dennis
was in
charge (also difficult to imagine Schumacher/Senna/Vettel complying). >>>>>
Given that Norris is well ahead of Piastri in the WDC, McLaren
should have
let Lando win. Tough on Oscar, but F1 is a tough sport and his day
will
come.
With McLaren apparently dominant it is not beyond the bounds of
possibility
that Norris could win the WDC - I just hope he doesn’t miss out by >>>>> less
than 7 points
Based on what I read of Norris's remarks after the race, I think
there was pretty clearly an agreement between the two drivers that
if one of them was ahead at some still-unknown earlier point in the
race, then that driver would get the win.
Yeah but from lap 44 (was it) of 70 ?!!! Plenty of opportunity for
real racing between them both after that and for NOR to potentially
regain his place, if the could ...
geoff
Team orders have been a part of F1 since forever.
Teams make these agreements to make sure their drivers don't take each
other out.
I don't know for certain if there was an agreement or what it was, but
if there WAS an agreement, then Norris should be applauded for living
up to his agreements.
Yes, eventually. But my reasoning still stands that if he has given the
place back sooner, it would have been a simple case of 'may the best man win'.
Unless the team agreement was that 'if somebody was ahead at 'x' point
in the race (and certainly just over half-distance) that they they must
be allowed to finish ahead of the other'. And I simply cannot believe
that would be the case.
Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> writes:
Geoff <geoff@geoffwood.org> wrote:
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in was a >>> team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past at the >>> earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in which to >>> potentially overtake him and win the race.
Difficult to imagine this sort of situation arising when Ron Dennis was in >> charge (also difficult to imagine Schumacher/Senna/Vettel complying).
Given that Norris is well ahead of Piastri in the WDC, McLaren should have >> let Lando win. Tough on Oscar, but F1 is a tough sport and his day will
come.
Yup, agree, unless they had a rock-hard pre-decided agreement I'm not
party to.
I'm working on the principle that NOR was faster than PIA on his third
set of tyres, and had they pitted Oscar first, Lando would have been on
his tail for 10-15 laps, and one can't say an overtake would be
impossible; Oscar was certainly making more mistakes, and it only takes
one mistake to lose a place.
Was the NOR 1st-box *really* that tactically necessary?
With McLaren apparently dominant it is not beyond the bounds of possibility >> that Norris could win the WDC - I just hope he doesn’t miss out by less
than 7 points
Indeed.
Phil
On 2024-07-23 13:25, Phil Carmody wrote:
Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> writes:
Geoff <geoff@geoffwood.org> wrote:
The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in
was a
team tactic.
But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past at
the
earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in
which to
potentially overtake him and win the race.
Difficult to imagine this sort of situation arising when Ron Dennis
was in
charge (also difficult to imagine Schumacher/Senna/Vettel complying).
Given that Norris is well ahead of Piastri in the WDC, McLaren should
have
let Lando win. Tough on Oscar, but F1 is a tough sport and his day will
come.
Yup, agree, unless they had a rock-hard pre-decided agreement I'm not
party to.
I'm working on the principle that NOR was faster than PIA on his third
set of tyres, and had they pitted Oscar first, Lando would have been on
his tail for 10-15 laps, and one can't say an overtake would be
impossible; Oscar was certainly making more mistakes, and it only takes
one mistake to lose a place.
Ummmmm...how does that work in your mind?
Pitting Piastri first means he's essentially undercutting Norris and
building more gap after they've both pitted.
Was the NOR 1st-box *really* that tactically necessary?
I think they idea was that it letting Norris pit first helped him stay
clear of net third place, Hamilton, who had already pitted for fresh
tires. If they'd pitted Piastri first, then Norris might be seeing the
gap behind him close up to the point where he would get undercut.
I think they were wrong about it, but given that they radioed Piastri to
say they wouldn't "cover Hamilton" after Hamilton's stop, it seems logical.