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On 9/6/24 11:12 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 9/1/2024 10:27 AM, -hh wrote:
On 8/31/24 5:13 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 8/30/2024 9:38 AM, -hh wrote:
On 8/30/24 9:15 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
To sum it up, fun but not as much as we thought it might be.
That happens. On our own last trans-Atlantic outing, we both
caught some sort of not-CoVid bug around ten days in, which was
unpleasant.
Arriving Paris on time we elected to take a taxi to the hotel.
Given it was 4 of us the taxi was not that much more than the
train/Metro and a lot less hassle. The hotel transfer was on us as >>>>>> we arrived several days before the Viking tour started.
Price break on four makes it worth doing AFAIC, even before
considering your later comment about your travel companion's lower
physical shape.
Took our friends to see some museums, the tower level 3, other
spots, and had some incredible meals. However, the friends are not >>>>>> in the best physical shape and that limited our options. We
traveled by Metro, Uber, taxi and RATP. They were fascinated by
the Notre Dame crypt, Montmarte and Musee D'Orsay.
I've really enjoyed the Orsay; its also a nice place to plan taking
a lunch break, in the cafe that's "inside" of the clock face.
The tower experience was slightly compromised by rain and poor
visibility, but at that point we had no other options for another
day. The just-concluded Olympic games had a few streets closed and >>>>>> the Champ de Mars still occupied by venues and blocked off.
Leaving Paris by Viking bus via the Luxembourg American cemetery
we arrived the Viking ship at Trier. Spent a week+ on board,
visited some Moselle/Rhine River towns in Germany and France. A
WWII buff, I was amazed the the Allies ever made it across the
part of Moselle valley we saw.
I learned awhile back that my father did one of those Mosel
crossings, somewhat proximate to the town of Zell, if I recall
correctly. I understand that the river looks somewhat different
today, as the dam system for ship navigation has changed over the
decades (less current; possibly slightly higher average water
levels too).
Viking's U.S. marketing portrays the company's river cruises as
exceptional. In our experience with prior European river cruises
they are not. The ship needed some cosmetic refurb, on day 1 a
"technical issue" delay caused us to miss our first stop, and the
food and crew service was very good, but not great. We also had a
few tour guides that did not speak great English. My wife had to
assist one with translating the excellent French of a local
vineyard owner.
I don't recall the details why we skipped using Viking in EU, but
we've had good success with Uniworld and AMA Waterways. One trade- >>>>> off for comparing these two is that Uniworld had free DIY laundry
onboard (helps lighten the bags) but AMA had better wines & wine
stewards at dinner.
On the other hand we had a medical emergency that led to an
unplanned stop. It was handled well and did not cause any issues
for the schedule.
Arriving Basel we did the ship's included city tour that was very
well done. That afternoon we departed for Zurich, toured that city >>>>>> center for a day and a half by tram with a lake boat ride thrown
in, and had a great meal on the last evening. Jolly good fun.
There's a traditional swiss restaurant that I'd like to get back to
in Zurich, IIRC, not far from the Fraümunster: a good spot for Rösti. >>>>>
Had a bit of a tram experience. The hotel was a few miles west of
the lake and city center. Departing the hotel on line 4 for our
dinner the tram stopped after about 10 minutes and it was
announced that there had been an accident ahead involving a tram
and car. Line 4 was being delayed and diverted. Almost all the
passengers left the tram. Two young locals offered to show us how
to get to our destination. We followed their instructions and
arrived via a different route with minimal delay. Could have
figured that out ourselves but their assistance was very helpful.
Things like that happen. Fortunately, you weren't time-stressed
such as heading to the airport for a departure flight. Have had
that happen with a train issue in Belgium.
Flights back through Philly were both on time. Got to experience
the 787 for the first time too.
IIRC, the 787's Polaris is a bit more roomy than on their 757 version. >>>>>
Next year? I'm voting for 2 weeks in southern/western France via
rental car. The wife has veto power but there is a still lot we
have not seen. And Hugh, I checked with National. My age is not an >>>>>> issue for them.
Been meaning to get around to a "drive around" in FR as well:
several different directions though (Normandy, Mont-Saint-Miche,
Bordeaux, Chateaus, etc).
Plus one probably unknown to Americans sight is the city of
Bourges, as there's a huge cathedral there that gets compared to
Notre Dame (but without crowds), plus an evening walk through its
old timbered houses section is nice: tastefully lit. A single
overnight is adequate; figure it as 3.5+hrs (175mi) drive due south
of Paris.
And on the rental car, the important thing here is that the risk of
age restrictions is now on your checklist to verify in advance,
instead of getting blindsided at the last minute by it.
-hh
We ate in that same D'Orsey restaurant. Much nicer than the small
snack bar on the ground floor.
I think the onboard AMA experience is every bit as good as Viking.
But their excursions are better and the cabins a bit larger. My take
is that Viking has become so big that with multiple ships in a port
as seemed to happen frequently they have issues with smaller places
some of the AMA excursions we liked. Example - the small music
museum at Rudesheim. I also remember that the guides were better and
we had more free time in port.
FWIW, some of this also depends on which river you're on, as the
ships on the Rhine have grown in size which limits where they can dock.
I just today watched a YouTube on touring France that may change my[rearraging]
mind a bit about next year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RdNGT1jz8 >>>
We have done 2 weeks in Normandy/Brittany and about the same in Paris >>> > plus 2 trips that took us to the south coast. Time to branch out.
Massif Central, Loire Valley and Alsace are high on my list.
Yes, there's a huge number of regions in France that US tourists are
utterly unaware of. There's some pretty wild scenery/canyons
someplace that I can't recall at the moment. I think I could easily
do 5-6 trips, not too much unlike we've already done in Germany.
Taking the TGV to a city then renting the car if you need it could
be a lot of fun, even if a bit more expensive. Thoughts?
We used the TGV to go from Paris (Gare de l’Est) to Colmar/Strasbourg
(near the Rhine) in 2022: it was straightforward, pretty easy, and
quite fast city to city: Strasbourg's just 1:45. I've also used the
Brussels to Paris "Thales" express too; IIRC, its just ~90 minutes or
so as well.
For Colmar, the train station's not super-central, so it was an easy
4-5 block walk pulling our bags. Once there, there was one day where
it would have been good to have had a car, but it was also good to
not have to worry about parking a car the rest of the time. The 'car
day' was a trip out of Colmar to an outlying village of Eguisheim,
which is known for the Church of Saint Peter and Saint Paul (a 13C
chapel) and several Alsatian wine producers, as the shuttlebus the
city offered was over capacity & ran too infrequently. But it is
just as well though, as many of the Eguisheim visitors were loading
up their cars with cases of wines to drive home; carting away a lot
isn't really an option when flying.
-hh
You should have gone to this gem too: https://riquewihr.fr/fr/ or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riquewihr
Just 7 miles east of Colmar. Very small and great wines. I just
ordered a case of Riesling from a small winery we know there. Shipping
was a lot more than the wine!
Riquewihr is similar and was the either/or choice, as we also visited Srasbourg too.
There's a lot of such small towns w/wineries in the Alsace region; I
think we have a Karen Brown guidebook which has a couple of self-driving routes that's on the "to do" list .. my basic conclusion is that if one
wants to get to such small villages, it is better done with a rental car
than by mass transit as we had done.
On 8/30/2024 9:38 AM, -hh wrote:
On 8/30/24 9:15 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
To sum it up, fun but not as much as we thought it might be.
That happens. On our own last trans-Atlantic outing, we both caught
some sort of not-CoVid bug around ten days in, which was unpleasant.
Arriving Paris on time we elected to take a taxi to the hotel. Given
it was 4 of us the taxi was not that much more than the train/Metro
and a lot less hassle. The hotel transfer was on us as we arrived
several days before the Viking tour started.
Price break on four makes it worth doing AFAIC, even before
considering your later comment about your travel companion's lower
physical shape.
Took our friends to see some museums, the tower level 3, other spots,
and had some incredible meals. However, the friends are not in the
best physical shape and that limited our options. We traveled by
Metro, Uber, taxi and RATP. They were fascinated by the Notre Dame
crypt, Montmarte and Musee D'Orsay.
I've really enjoyed the Orsay; its also a nice place to plan taking a
lunch break, in the cafe that's "inside" of the clock face.
The tower experience was slightly compromised by rain and poor
visibility, but at that point we had no other options for another
day. The just-concluded Olympic games had a few streets closed and
the Champ de Mars still occupied by venues and blocked off.
Leaving Paris by Viking bus via the Luxembourg American cemetery we
arrived the Viking ship at Trier. Spent a week+ on board, visited
some Moselle/Rhine River towns in Germany and France. A WWII buff, I
was amazed the the Allies ever made it across the part of Moselle
valley we saw.
I learned awhile back that my father did one of those Mosel crossings,
somewhat proximate to the town of Zell, if I recall correctly. I
understand that the river looks somewhat different today, as the dam
system for ship navigation has changed over the decades (less current;
possibly slightly higher average water levels too).
Viking's U.S. marketing portrays the company's river cruises as
exceptional. In our experience with prior European river cruises they
are not. The ship needed some cosmetic refurb, on day 1 a "technical
issue" delay caused us to miss our first stop, and the food and crew
service was very good, but not great. We also had a few tour guides
that did not speak great English. My wife had to assist one with
translating the excellent French of a local vineyard owner.
I don't recall the details why we skipped using Viking in EU, but
we've had good success with Uniworld and AMA Waterways. One trade-off
for comparing these two is that Uniworld had free DIY laundry onboard
(helps lighten the bags) but AMA had better wines & wine stewards at
dinner.
On the other hand we had a medical emergency that led to an unplanned
stop. It was handled well and did not cause any issues for the schedule. >>>
Arriving Basel we did the ship's included city tour that was very
well done. That afternoon we departed for Zurich, toured that city
center for a day and a half by tram with a lake boat ride thrown in,
and had a great meal on the last evening. Jolly good fun.
There's a traditional swiss restaurant that I'd like to get back to in
Zurich, IIRC, not far from the Fraümunster: a good spot for Rösti.
Had a bit of a tram experience. The hotel was a few miles west of the
lake and city center. Departing the hotel on line 4 for our dinner
the tram stopped after about 10 minutes and it was announced that
there had been an accident ahead involving a tram and car. Line 4 was
being delayed and diverted. Almost all the passengers left the tram.
Two young locals offered to show us how to get to our destination. We
followed their instructions and arrived via a different route with
minimal delay. Could have figured that out ourselves but their
assistance was very helpful.
Things like that happen. Fortunately, you weren't time-stressed such
as heading to the airport for a departure flight. Have had that
happen with a train issue in Belgium.
Flights back through Philly were both on time. Got to experience the
787 for the first time too.
IIRC, the 787's Polaris is a bit more roomy than on their 757 version.
Next year? I'm voting for 2 weeks in southern/western France via
rental car. The wife has veto power but there is a still lot we have
not seen. And Hugh, I checked with National. My age is not an issue
for them.
Been meaning to get around to a "drive around" in FR as well: several
different directions though (Normandy, Mont-Saint-Miche, Bordeaux,
Chateaus, etc).
Plus one probably unknown to Americans sight is the city of Bourges,
as there's a huge cathedral there that gets compared to Notre Dame
(but without crowds), plus an evening walk through its old timbered
houses section is nice: tastefully lit. A single overnight is
adequate; figure it as 3.5+hrs (175mi) drive due south of Paris.
And on the rental car, the important thing here is that the risk of
age restrictions is now on your checklist to verify in advance,
instead of getting blindsided at the last minute by it.
-hh
We ate in that same D'Orsey restaurant. Much nicer than the small snack
bar on the ground floor.
I think the onboard AMA experience is every bit as good as Viking. But
their excursions are better and the cabins a bit larger. My take is that Viking has become so big that with multiple ships in a port as seemed to happen frequently they have issues with smaller places some of the AMA excursions we liked. Example - the small music museum at Rudesheim. I
also remember that the guides were better and we had more free time in
port.
I just today watched a YouTube on touring France that may change my mind
a bit about next year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RdNGT1jz8
We have done 2 weeks in Normandy/Brittany and about the same in Paris
plus 2 trips that took us to the south coast. Time to branch out.
Massif Central, Loire Valley and Alsace are high on my list.
Taking the TGV to a city then renting the car if you need it could be a
lot of fun, even if a bit more expensive. Thoughts?
On 9/6/2024 1:07 PM, -hh wrote:
On 9/6/24 11:12 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 9/1/2024 10:27 AM, -hh wrote:
On 8/31/24 5:13 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 8/30/2024 9:38 AM, -hh wrote:
On 8/30/24 9:15 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
To sum it up, fun but not as much as we thought it might be.
That happens. On our own last trans-Atlantic outing, we both
caught some sort of not-CoVid bug around ten days in, which was
unpleasant.
Arriving Paris on time we elected to take a taxi to the hotel.
Given it was 4 of us the taxi was not that much more than the
train/Metro and a lot less hassle. The hotel transfer was on us
as we arrived several days before the Viking tour started.
Price break on four makes it worth doing AFAIC, even before
considering your later comment about your travel companion's lower >>>>>> physical shape.
Took our friends to see some museums, the tower level 3, other
spots, and had some incredible meals. However, the friends are
not in the best physical shape and that limited our options. We
traveled by Metro, Uber, taxi and RATP. They were fascinated by
the Notre Dame crypt, Montmarte and Musee D'Orsay.
I've really enjoyed the Orsay; its also a nice place to plan
taking a lunch break, in the cafe that's "inside" of the clock face. >>>>>>
The tower experience was slightly compromised by rain and poor
visibility, but at that point we had no other options for another >>>>>>> day. The just-concluded Olympic games had a few streets closed
and the Champ de Mars still occupied by venues and blocked off.
Leaving Paris by Viking bus via the Luxembourg American cemetery >>>>>>> we arrived the Viking ship at Trier. Spent a week+ on board,
visited some Moselle/Rhine River towns in Germany and France. A
WWII buff, I was amazed the the Allies ever made it across the
part of Moselle valley we saw.
I learned awhile back that my father did one of those Mosel
crossings, somewhat proximate to the town of Zell, if I recall
correctly. I understand that the river looks somewhat different
today, as the dam system for ship navigation has changed over the
decades (less current; possibly slightly higher average water
levels too).
Viking's U.S. marketing portrays the company's river cruises as
exceptional. In our experience with prior European river cruises >>>>>>> they are not. The ship needed some cosmetic refurb, on day 1 a
"technical issue" delay caused us to miss our first stop, and the >>>>>>> food and crew service was very good, but not great. We also had a >>>>>>> few tour guides that did not speak great English. My wife had to >>>>>>> assist one with translating the excellent French of a local
vineyard owner.
I don't recall the details why we skipped using Viking in EU, but
we've had good success with Uniworld and AMA Waterways. One
trade- off for comparing these two is that Uniworld had free DIY
laundry onboard (helps lighten the bags) but AMA had better wines
& wine stewards at dinner.
On the other hand we had a medical emergency that led to an
unplanned stop. It was handled well and did not cause any issues >>>>>>> for the schedule.
Arriving Basel we did the ship's included city tour that was very >>>>>>> well done. That afternoon we departed for Zurich, toured that
city center for a day and a half by tram with a lake boat ride
thrown in, and had a great meal on the last evening. Jolly good fun. >>>>>>
There's a traditional swiss restaurant that I'd like to get back
to in Zurich, IIRC, not far from the Fraümunster: a good spot for >>>>>> Rösti.
Had a bit of a tram experience. The hotel was a few miles west of >>>>>>> the lake and city center. Departing the hotel on line 4 for our
dinner the tram stopped after about 10 minutes and it was
announced that there had been an accident ahead involving a tram >>>>>>> and car. Line 4 was being delayed and diverted. Almost all the
passengers left the tram. Two young locals offered to show us how >>>>>>> to get to our destination. We followed their instructions and
arrived via a different route with minimal delay. Could have
figured that out ourselves but their assistance was very helpful. >>>>>>
Things like that happen. Fortunately, you weren't time-stressed
such as heading to the airport for a departure flight. Have had
that happen with a train issue in Belgium.
Flights back through Philly were both on time. Got to experience >>>>>>> the 787 for the first time too.
IIRC, the 787's Polaris is a bit more roomy than on their 757
version.
Next year? I'm voting for 2 weeks in southern/western France via >>>>>>> rental car. The wife has veto power but there is a still lot we
have not seen. And Hugh, I checked with National. My age is not
an issue for them.
Been meaning to get around to a "drive around" in FR as well:
several different directions though (Normandy, Mont-Saint-Miche,
Bordeaux, Chateaus, etc).
Plus one probably unknown to Americans sight is the city of
Bourges, as there's a huge cathedral there that gets compared to
Notre Dame (but without crowds), plus an evening walk through its
old timbered houses section is nice: tastefully lit. A single
overnight is adequate; figure it as 3.5+hrs (175mi) drive due
south of Paris.
And on the rental car, the important thing here is that the risk
of age restrictions is now on your checklist to verify in advance, >>>>>> instead of getting blindsided at the last minute by it.
-hh
We ate in that same D'Orsey restaurant. Much nicer than the small
snack bar on the ground floor.
I think the onboard AMA experience is every bit as good as Viking.
But their excursions are better and the cabins a bit larger. My
take is that Viking has become so big that with multiple ships in a
port as seemed to happen frequently they have issues with smaller
places some of the AMA excursions we liked. Example - the small
music museum at Rudesheim. I also remember that the guides were
better and we had more free time in port.
FWIW, some of this also depends on which river you're on, as the
ships on the Rhine have grown in size which limits where they can dock. >>>>
I just today watched a YouTube on touring France that may change my
mind a bit about next year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=d8RdNGT1jz8
[rearraging]
We have done 2 weeks in Normandy/Brittany and about the same inParis
plus 2 trips that took us to the south coast. Time to branch out.
Massif Central, Loire Valley and Alsace are high on my list.
Yes, there's a huge number of regions in France that US tourists are
utterly unaware of. There's some pretty wild scenery/canyons
someplace that I can't recall at the moment. I think I could easily
do 5-6 trips, not too much unlike we've already done in Germany.
Taking the TGV to a city then renting the car if you need it could
be a lot of fun, even if a bit more expensive. Thoughts?
We used the TGV to go from Paris (Gare de l’Est) to Colmar/
Strasbourg (near the Rhine) in 2022: it was straightforward, pretty
easy, and quite fast city to city: Strasbourg's just 1:45. I've
also used the Brussels to Paris "Thales" express too; IIRC, its just
~90 minutes or so as well.
For Colmar, the train station's not super-central, so it was an easy
4-5 block walk pulling our bags. Once there, there was one day
where it would have been good to have had a car, but it was also
good to not have to worry about parking a car the rest of the time.
The 'car day' was a trip out of Colmar to an outlying village of
Eguisheim, which is known for the Church of Saint Peter and Saint
Paul (a 13C chapel) and several Alsatian wine producers, as the
shuttlebus the city offered was over capacity & ran too
infrequently. But it is just as well though, as many of the
Eguisheim visitors were loading up their cars with cases of wines to
drive home; carting away a lot isn't really an option when flying.
-hh
You should have gone to this gem too: https://riquewihr.fr/fr/ or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riquewihr
Just 7 miles east of Colmar. Very small and great wines. I just
ordered a case of Riesling from a small winery we know there.
Shipping was a lot more than the wine!
Riquewihr is similar and was the either/or choice, as we also visited
Srasbourg too.
There's a lot of such small towns w/wineries in the Alsace region; I
think we have a Karen Brown guidebook which has a couple of self-
driving routes that's on the "to do" list .. my basic conclusion is
that if one wants to get to such small villages, it is better done
with a rental car than by mass transit as we had done.
-hh
The case arrived Saturday. It was shipped by a local wine merchant. I'm guessing the vineyard/store owner just put the case together and paid a friend who does this more often to send it via FedEx. It was clearly
labeled as wine, but I did not get an itemized receipt.
That shop's Riesling is incredible. Smooth and with a pleasing mineral finish. Great with seafood.
On 9/30/24 2:00 PM, Tom Elam wrote:On the subject of dessert wines, if you haven't had the opportunity yet,
On 9/6/2024 1:07 PM, -hh wrote:
On 9/6/24 11:12 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 9/1/2024 10:27 AM, -hh wrote:
On 8/31/24 5:13 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 8/30/2024 9:38 AM, -hh wrote:
On 8/30/24 9:15 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
To sum it up, fun but not as much as we thought it might be.
That happens. On our own last trans-Atlantic outing, we both
caught some sort of not-CoVid bug around ten days in, which was
unpleasant.
Arriving Paris on time we elected to take a taxi to the hotel. >>>>>>>> Given it was 4 of us the taxi was not that much more than the
train/Metro and a lot less hassle. The hotel transfer was on us >>>>>>>> as we arrived several days before the Viking tour started.
Price break on four makes it worth doing AFAIC, even before
considering your later comment about your travel companion's
lower physical shape.
Took our friends to see some museums, the tower level 3, other >>>>>>>> spots, and had some incredible meals. However, the friends are >>>>>>>> not in the best physical shape and that limited our options. We >>>>>>>> traveled by Metro, Uber, taxi and RATP. They were fascinated by >>>>>>>> the Notre Dame crypt, Montmarte and Musee D'Orsay.
I've really enjoyed the Orsay; its also a nice place to plan
taking a lunch break, in the cafe that's "inside" of the clock face. >>>>>>>
The tower experience was slightly compromised by rain and poor >>>>>>>> visibility, but at that point we had no other options for
another day. The just-concluded Olympic games had a few streets >>>>>>>> closed and the Champ de Mars still occupied by venues and
blocked off.
Leaving Paris by Viking bus via the Luxembourg American cemetery >>>>>>>> we arrived the Viking ship at Trier. Spent a week+ on board,
visited some Moselle/Rhine River towns in Germany and France. A >>>>>>>> WWII buff, I was amazed the the Allies ever made it across the >>>>>>>> part of Moselle valley we saw.
I learned awhile back that my father did one of those Mosel
crossings, somewhat proximate to the town of Zell, if I recall
correctly. I understand that the river looks somewhat different >>>>>>> today, as the dam system for ship navigation has changed over the >>>>>>> decades (less current; possibly slightly higher average water
levels too).
Viking's U.S. marketing portrays the company's river cruises as >>>>>>>> exceptional. In our experience with prior European river cruises >>>>>>>> they are not. The ship needed some cosmetic refurb, on day 1 a >>>>>>>> "technical issue" delay caused us to miss our first stop, and
the food and crew service was very good, but not great. We also >>>>>>>> had a few tour guides that did not speak great English. My wife >>>>>>>> had to assist one with translating the excellent French of a
local vineyard owner.
I don't recall the details why we skipped using Viking in EU, but >>>>>>> we've had good success with Uniworld and AMA Waterways. One
trade- off for comparing these two is that Uniworld had free DIY >>>>>>> laundry onboard (helps lighten the bags) but AMA had better wines >>>>>>> & wine stewards at dinner.
On the other hand we had a medical emergency that led to an
unplanned stop. It was handled well and did not cause any issues >>>>>>>> for the schedule.
Arriving Basel we did the ship's included city tour that was
very well done. That afternoon we departed for Zurich, toured
that city center for a day and a half by tram with a lake boat >>>>>>>> ride thrown in, and had a great meal on the last evening. Jolly >>>>>>>> good fun.
There's a traditional swiss restaurant that I'd like to get back >>>>>>> to in Zurich, IIRC, not far from the Fraümunster: a good spot for >>>>>>> Rösti.
Had a bit of a tram experience. The hotel was a few miles west >>>>>>>> of the lake and city center. Departing the hotel on line 4 for >>>>>>>> our dinner the tram stopped after about 10 minutes and it was
announced that there had been an accident ahead involving a tram >>>>>>>> and car. Line 4 was being delayed and diverted. Almost all the >>>>>>>> passengers left the tram. Two young locals offered to show us
how to get to our destination. We followed their instructions
and arrived via a different route with minimal delay. Could have >>>>>>>> figured that out ourselves but their assistance was very helpful. >>>>>>>
Things like that happen. Fortunately, you weren't time-stressed >>>>>>> such as heading to the airport for a departure flight. Have had >>>>>>> that happen with a train issue in Belgium.
Flights back through Philly were both on time. Got to experience >>>>>>>> the 787 for the first time too.
IIRC, the 787's Polaris is a bit more roomy than on their 757
version.
Next year? I'm voting for 2 weeks in southern/western France via >>>>>>>> rental car. The wife has veto power but there is a still lot we >>>>>>>> have not seen. And Hugh, I checked with National. My age is not >>>>>>>> an issue for them.
Been meaning to get around to a "drive around" in FR as well:
several different directions though (Normandy, Mont-Saint-Miche, >>>>>>> Bordeaux, Chateaus, etc).
Plus one probably unknown to Americans sight is the city of
Bourges, as there's a huge cathedral there that gets compared to >>>>>>> Notre Dame (but without crowds), plus an evening walk through its >>>>>>> old timbered houses section is nice: tastefully lit. A single
overnight is adequate; figure it as 3.5+hrs (175mi) drive due
south of Paris.
And on the rental car, the important thing here is that the risk >>>>>>> of age restrictions is now on your checklist to verify in
advance, instead of getting blindsided at the last minute by it. >>>>>>>
-hh
We ate in that same D'Orsey restaurant. Much nicer than the small
snack bar on the ground floor.
I think the onboard AMA experience is every bit as good as Viking. >>>>>> But their excursions are better and the cabins a bit larger. My
take is that Viking has become so big that with multiple ships in
a port as seemed to happen frequently they have issues with
smaller places some of the AMA excursions we liked. Example - the
small music museum at Rudesheim. I also remember that the guides
were better and we had more free time in port.
FWIW, some of this also depends on which river you're on, as the
ships on the Rhine have grown in size which limits where they can
dock.
I just today watched a YouTube on touring France that may change
my mind a bit about next year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=d8RdNGT1jz8
[rearraging]
We have done 2 weeks in Normandy/Brittany and about the same inParis
plus 2 trips that took us to the south coast. Time to branch out. >>>>> > Massif Central, Loire Valley and Alsace are high on my list.
Yes, there's a huge number of regions in France that US tourists
are utterly unaware of. There's some pretty wild scenery/canyons
someplace that I can't recall at the moment. I think I could
easily do 5-6 trips, not too much unlike we've already done in
Germany.
Taking the TGV to a city then renting the car if you need it could >>>>>> be a lot of fun, even if a bit more expensive. Thoughts?
We used the TGV to go from Paris (Gare de l’Est) to Colmar/
Strasbourg (near the Rhine) in 2022: it was straightforward,
pretty easy, and quite fast city to city: Strasbourg's just 1:45.
I've also used the Brussels to Paris "Thales" express too; IIRC,
its just ~90 minutes or so as well.
For Colmar, the train station's not super-central, so it was an
easy 4-5 block walk pulling our bags. Once there, there was one
day where it would have been good to have had a car, but it was
also good to not have to worry about parking a car the rest of the
time. The 'car day' was a trip out of Colmar to an outlying village
of Eguisheim, which is known for the Church of Saint Peter and
Saint Paul (a 13C chapel) and several Alsatian wine producers, as
the shuttlebus the city offered was over capacity & ran too
infrequently. But it is just as well though, as many of the
Eguisheim visitors were loading up their cars with cases of wines
to drive home; carting away a lot isn't really an option when flying. >>>>>
-hh
You should have gone to this gem too: https://riquewihr.fr/fr/ or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riquewihr
Just 7 miles east of Colmar. Very small and great wines. I just
ordered a case of Riesling from a small winery we know there.
Shipping was a lot more than the wine!
Riquewihr is similar and was the either/or choice, as we also visited
Srasbourg too.
There's a lot of such small towns w/wineries in the Alsace region; I
think we have a Karen Brown guidebook which has a couple of self-
driving routes that's on the "to do" list .. my basic conclusion is
that if one wants to get to such small villages, it is better done
with a rental car than by mass transit as we had done.
-hh
The case arrived Saturday. It was shipped by a local wine merchant.
I'm guessing the vineyard/store owner just put the case together and
paid a friend who does this more often to send it via FedEx. It was
clearly labeled as wine, but I did not get an itemized receipt.
That shop's Riesling is incredible. Smooth and with a pleasing mineral
finish. Great with seafood.
There's a lot of quite pleasant Rieslings out there. Because they're
also a young wine, they're rarely expensive (often "close to downright cheap") until you start to look for Spatlese & Auslese variants.
FYI, for a dessert Riesling, instead an Eiswein, consider trying the
often obscure and slightly less super-sweet Beerenauslese. Some folks
find the Eiswein to be too sweet, so this a good alternative, plus
they're less expensive from the same vintner. Can be hard to find in
the USA, though.
On 2024-09-30 14:19, -hh wrote:
On 9/30/24 2:00 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 9/6/2024 1:07 PM, -hh wrote:
On 9/6/24 11:12 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 9/1/2024 10:27 AM, -hh wrote:
On 8/31/24 5:13 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 8/30/2024 9:38 AM, -hh wrote:
On 8/30/24 9:15 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
To sum it up, fun but not as much as we thought it might be.
That happens. On our own last trans-Atlantic outing, we both >>>>>>>> caught some sort of not-CoVid bug around ten days in, which was >>>>>>>> unpleasant.
Arriving Paris on time we elected to take a taxi to the hotel. >>>>>>>>> Given it was 4 of us the taxi was not that much more than the >>>>>>>>> train/Metro and a lot less hassle. The hotel transfer was on us >>>>>>>>> as we arrived several days before the Viking tour started.
Price break on four makes it worth doing AFAIC, even before
considering your later comment about your travel companion's
lower physical shape.
Took our friends to see some museums, the tower level 3, other >>>>>>>>> spots, and had some incredible meals. However, the friends are >>>>>>>>> not in the best physical shape and that limited our options. We >>>>>>>>> traveled by Metro, Uber, taxi and RATP. They were fascinated by >>>>>>>>> the Notre Dame crypt, Montmarte and Musee D'Orsay.
I've really enjoyed the Orsay; its also a nice place to plan
taking a lunch break, in the cafe that's "inside" of the clock >>>>>>>> face.
The tower experience was slightly compromised by rain and poor >>>>>>>>> visibility, but at that point we had no other options for
another day. The just-concluded Olympic games had a few streets >>>>>>>>> closed and the Champ de Mars still occupied by venues and
blocked off.
Leaving Paris by Viking bus via the Luxembourg American
cemetery we arrived the Viking ship at Trier. Spent a week+ on >>>>>>>>> board, visited some Moselle/Rhine River towns in Germany and >>>>>>>>> France. A WWII buff, I was amazed the the Allies ever made it >>>>>>>>> across the part of Moselle valley we saw.
I learned awhile back that my father did one of those Mosel
crossings, somewhat proximate to the town of Zell, if I recall >>>>>>>> correctly. I understand that the river looks somewhat different >>>>>>>> today, as the dam system for ship navigation has changed over
the decades (less current; possibly slightly higher average
water levels too).
Viking's U.S. marketing portrays the company's river cruises as >>>>>>>>> exceptional. In our experience with prior European river
cruises they are not. The ship needed some cosmetic refurb, on >>>>>>>>> day 1 a "technical issue" delay caused us to miss our first
stop, and the food and crew service was very good, but not
great. We also had a few tour guides that did not speak great >>>>>>>>> English. My wife had to assist one with translating the
excellent French of a local vineyard owner.
I don't recall the details why we skipped using Viking in EU,
but we've had good success with Uniworld and AMA Waterways. One >>>>>>>> trade- off for comparing these two is that Uniworld had free DIY >>>>>>>> laundry onboard (helps lighten the bags) but AMA had better
wines & wine stewards at dinner.
On the other hand we had a medical emergency that led to an
unplanned stop. It was handled well and did not cause any
issues for the schedule.
Arriving Basel we did the ship's included city tour that was >>>>>>>>> very well done. That afternoon we departed for Zurich, toured >>>>>>>>> that city center for a day and a half by tram with a lake boat >>>>>>>>> ride thrown in, and had a great meal on the last evening. Jolly >>>>>>>>> good fun.
There's a traditional swiss restaurant that I'd like to get back >>>>>>>> to in Zurich, IIRC, not far from the Fraümunster: a good spot >>>>>>>> for Rösti.
Had a bit of a tram experience. The hotel was a few miles west >>>>>>>>> of the lake and city center. Departing the hotel on line 4 for >>>>>>>>> our dinner the tram stopped after about 10 minutes and it was >>>>>>>>> announced that there had been an accident ahead involving a
tram and car. Line 4 was being delayed and diverted. Almost all >>>>>>>>> the passengers left the tram. Two young locals offered to show >>>>>>>>> us how to get to our destination. We followed their
instructions and arrived via a different route with minimal
delay. Could have figured that out ourselves but their
assistance was very helpful.
Things like that happen. Fortunately, you weren't time-stressed >>>>>>>> such as heading to the airport for a departure flight. Have had >>>>>>>> that happen with a train issue in Belgium.
Flights back through Philly were both on time. Got to
experience the 787 for the first time too.
IIRC, the 787's Polaris is a bit more roomy than on their 757
version.
Next year? I'm voting for 2 weeks in southern/western France >>>>>>>>> via rental car. The wife has veto power but there is a still >>>>>>>>> lot we have not seen. And Hugh, I checked with National. My age >>>>>>>>> is not an issue for them.
Been meaning to get around to a "drive around" in FR as well:
several different directions though (Normandy, Mont-Saint-Miche, >>>>>>>> Bordeaux, Chateaus, etc).
Plus one probably unknown to Americans sight is the city of
Bourges, as there's a huge cathedral there that gets compared to >>>>>>>> Notre Dame (but without crowds), plus an evening walk through
its old timbered houses section is nice: tastefully lit. A
single overnight is adequate; figure it as 3.5+hrs (175mi) drive >>>>>>>> due south of Paris.
And on the rental car, the important thing here is that the risk >>>>>>>> of age restrictions is now on your checklist to verify in
advance, instead of getting blindsided at the last minute by it. >>>>>>>>
-hh
We ate in that same D'Orsey restaurant. Much nicer than the small >>>>>>> snack bar on the ground floor.
I think the onboard AMA experience is every bit as good as
Viking. But their excursions are better and the cabins a bit
larger. My take is that Viking has become so big that with
multiple ships in a port as seemed to happen frequently they have >>>>>>> issues with smaller places some of the AMA excursions we liked.
Example - the small music museum at Rudesheim. I also remember
that the guides were better and we had more free time in port.
FWIW, some of this also depends on which river you're on, as the
ships on the Rhine have grown in size which limits where they can
dock.
I just today watched a YouTube on touring France that may change >>>>>>> my mind a bit about next year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=d8RdNGT1jz8
[rearraging]
We have done 2 weeks in Normandy/Brittany and about the same in >>>>>> Paris
plus 2 trips that took us to the south coast. Time to branch out. >>>>>> > Massif Central, Loire Valley and Alsace are high on my list.
Yes, there's a huge number of regions in France that US tourists
are utterly unaware of. There's some pretty wild scenery/canyons >>>>>> someplace that I can't recall at the moment. I think I could
easily do 5-6 trips, not too much unlike we've already done in
Germany.
Taking the TGV to a city then renting the car if you need it
could be a lot of fun, even if a bit more expensive. Thoughts?
We used the TGV to go from Paris (Gare de l’Est) to Colmar/
Strasbourg (near the Rhine) in 2022: it was straightforward,
pretty easy, and quite fast city to city: Strasbourg's just 1:45. >>>>>> I've also used the Brussels to Paris "Thales" express too; IIRC,
its just ~90 minutes or so as well.
For Colmar, the train station's not super-central, so it was an
easy 4-5 block walk pulling our bags. Once there, there was one
day where it would have been good to have had a car, but it was
also good to not have to worry about parking a car the rest of the >>>>>> time. The 'car day' was a trip out of Colmar to an outlying
village of Eguisheim, which is known for the Church of Saint Peter >>>>>> and Saint Paul (a 13C chapel) and several Alsatian wine producers, >>>>>> as the shuttlebus the city offered was over capacity & ran too
infrequently. But it is just as well though, as many of the
Eguisheim visitors were loading up their cars with cases of wines
to drive home; carting away a lot isn't really an option when flying. >>>>>>
-hh
You should have gone to this gem too: https://riquewihr.fr/fr/ or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riquewihr
Just 7 miles east of Colmar. Very small and great wines. I just
ordered a case of Riesling from a small winery we know there.
Shipping was a lot more than the wine!
Riquewihr is similar and was the either/or choice, as we also
visited Srasbourg too.
There's a lot of such small towns w/wineries in the Alsace region; I
think we have a Karen Brown guidebook which has a couple of self-
driving routes that's on the "to do" list .. my basic conclusion is
that if one wants to get to such small villages, it is better done
with a rental car than by mass transit as we had done.
The case arrived Saturday. It was shipped by a local wine merchant.
I'm guessing the vineyard/store owner just put the case together and
paid a friend who does this more often to send it via FedEx. It was
clearly labeled as wine, but I did not get an itemized receipt.
That shop's Riesling is incredible. Smooth and with a pleasing
mineral finish. Great with seafood.
There's a lot of quite pleasant Rieslings out there. Because they're
also a young wine, they're rarely expensive (often "close to downright
cheap") until you start to look for Spatlese & Auslese variants.
FYI, for a dessert Riesling, instead an Eiswein, consider trying the
often obscure and slightly less super-sweet Beerenauslese. Some folks
find the Eiswein to be too sweet, so this a good alternative, plus
they're less expensive from the same vintner. Can be hard to find in
the USA, though.
On the subject of dessert wines, if you haven't had the opportunity yet,
go mad and buy a bottle of Chateau D'Yquem some time. I've had the
chance to enjoy it two or three times in my life and there is a bottle
in my refrigerator waiting for the right occasion to enjoy it again.
Very sweet, but also amazingly complex.
On 9/7/2024 9:13 AM, -hh wrote:
On 9/6/24 1:07 PM, -hh wrote:Indiana is OK since about 5 years back. We carry wine home in checked
On 9/6/24 11:12 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 9/1/2024 10:27 AM, -hh wrote:
On 8/31/24 5:13 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 8/30/2024 9:38 AM, -hh wrote:
On 8/30/24 9:15 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
To sum it up, fun but not as much as we thought it might be.
That happens. On our own last trans-Atlantic outing, we both
caught some sort of not-CoVid bug around ten days in, which was
unpleasant.
Arriving Paris on time we elected to take a taxi to the hotel. >>>>>>>> Given it was 4 of us the taxi was not that much more than the
train/Metro and a lot less hassle. The hotel transfer was on us >>>>>>>> as we arrived several days before the Viking tour started.
Price break on four makes it worth doing AFAIC, even before
considering your later comment about your travel companion's lower >>>>>>> physical shape.
Took our friends to see some museums, the tower level 3, other >>>>>>>> spots, and had some incredible meals. However, the friends are >>>>>>>> not in the best physical shape and that limited our options. We >>>>>>>> traveled by Metro, Uber, taxi and RATP. They were fascinated by >>>>>>>> the Notre Dame crypt, Montmarte and Musee D'Orsay.
I've really enjoyed the Orsay; its also a nice place to plan
taking a lunch break, in the cafe that's "inside" of the clock face. >>>>>>>
The tower experience was slightly compromised by rain and poor >>>>>>>> visibility, but at that point we had no other options for another >>>>>>>> day. The just-concluded Olympic games had a few streets closed >>>>>>>> and the Champ de Mars still occupied by venues and blocked off. >>>>>>>>
Leaving Paris by Viking bus via the Luxembourg American cemetery >>>>>>>> we arrived the Viking ship at Trier. Spent a week+ on board,
visited some Moselle/Rhine River towns in Germany and France. A >>>>>>>> WWII buff, I was amazed the the Allies ever made it across the >>>>>>>> part of Moselle valley we saw.
I learned awhile back that my father did one of those Mosel
crossings, somewhat proximate to the town of Zell, if I recall
correctly. I understand that the river looks somewhat different >>>>>>> today, as the dam system for ship navigation has changed over the >>>>>>> decades (less current; possibly slightly higher average water
levels too).
Viking's U.S. marketing portrays the company's river cruises as >>>>>>>> exceptional. In our experience with prior European river cruises >>>>>>>> they are not. The ship needed some cosmetic refurb, on day 1 a >>>>>>>> "technical issue" delay caused us to miss our first stop, and the >>>>>>>> food and crew service was very good, but not great. We also had a >>>>>>>> few tour guides that did not speak great English. My wife had to >>>>>>>> assist one with translating the excellent French of a local
vineyard owner.
I don't recall the details why we skipped using Viking in EU, but >>>>>>> we've had good success with Uniworld and AMA Waterways. One
trade- off for comparing these two is that Uniworld had free DIY >>>>>>> laundry onboard (helps lighten the bags) but AMA had better wines >>>>>>> & wine stewards at dinner.
On the other hand we had a medical emergency that led to an
unplanned stop. It was handled well and did not cause any issues >>>>>>>> for the schedule.
Arriving Basel we did the ship's included city tour that was very >>>>>>>> well done. That afternoon we departed for Zurich, toured that
city center for a day and a half by tram with a lake boat ride >>>>>>>> thrown in, and had a great meal on the last evening. Jolly good fun. >>>>>>>
There's a traditional swiss restaurant that I'd like to get back >>>>>>> to in Zurich, IIRC, not far from the Fraümunster: a good spot for >>>>>>> Rösti.
Had a bit of a tram experience. The hotel was a few miles west of >>>>>>>> the lake and city center. Departing the hotel on line 4 for our >>>>>>>> dinner the tram stopped after about 10 minutes and it was
announced that there had been an accident ahead involving a tram >>>>>>>> and car. Line 4 was being delayed and diverted. Almost all the >>>>>>>> passengers left the tram. Two young locals offered to show us how >>>>>>>> to get to our destination. We followed their instructions and
arrived via a different route with minimal delay. Could have
figured that out ourselves but their assistance was very helpful. >>>>>>>
Things like that happen. Fortunately, you weren't time-stressed >>>>>>> such as heading to the airport for a departure flight. Have had >>>>>>> that happen with a train issue in Belgium.
Flights back through Philly were both on time. Got to experience >>>>>>>> the 787 for the first time too.
IIRC, the 787's Polaris is a bit more roomy than on their 757
version.
Next year? I'm voting for 2 weeks in southern/western France via >>>>>>>> rental car. The wife has veto power but there is a still lot we >>>>>>>> have not seen. And Hugh, I checked with National. My age is not >>>>>>>> an issue for them.
Been meaning to get around to a "drive around" in FR as well:
several different directions though (Normandy, Mont-Saint-Miche, >>>>>>> Bordeaux, Chateaus, etc).
Plus one probably unknown to Americans sight is the city of
Bourges, as there's a huge cathedral there that gets compared to >>>>>>> Notre Dame (but without crowds), plus an evening walk through its >>>>>>> old timbered houses section is nice: tastefully lit. A single
overnight is adequate; figure it as 3.5+hrs (175mi) drive due
south of Paris.
And on the rental car, the important thing here is that the risk >>>>>>> of age restrictions is now on your checklist to verify in advance, >>>>>>> instead of getting blindsided at the last minute by it.
-hh
We ate in that same D'Orsey restaurant. Much nicer than the small
snack bar on the ground floor.
I think the onboard AMA experience is every bit as good as Viking. >>>>>> But their excursions are better and the cabins a bit larger. My
take is that Viking has become so big that with multiple ships in a >>>>>> port as seemed to happen frequently they have issues with smaller
places some of the AMA excursions we liked. Example - the small
music museum at Rudesheim. I also remember that the guides were
better and we had more free time in port.
FWIW, some of this also depends on which river you're on, as the
ships on the Rhine have grown in size which limits where they can dock. >>>>>
I just today watched a YouTube on touring France that may change my >>>>>> mind a bit about next year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RdNGT1jz8
[rearraging]
We have done 2 weeks in Normandy/Brittany and about the same inParis
plus 2 trips that took us to the south coast. Time to branch out.
Massif Central, Loire Valley and Alsace are high on my list.
Yes, there's a huge number of regions in France that US tourists are >>>>> utterly unaware of. There's some pretty wild scenery/canyons
someplace that I can't recall at the moment. I think I could easily >>>>> do 5-6 trips, not too much unlike we've already done in Germany.
Taking the TGV to a city then renting the car if you need it could >>>>>> be a lot of fun, even if a bit more expensive. Thoughts?
We used the TGV to go from Paris (Gare de l’Est) to
Colmar/Strasbourg (near the Rhine) in 2022: it was straightforward, >>>>> pretty easy, and quite fast city to city: Strasbourg's just 1:45.
I've also used the Brussels to Paris "Thales" express too; IIRC, its >>>>> just ~90 minutes or so as well.
For Colmar, the train station's not super-central, so it was an easy >>>>> 4-5 block walk pulling our bags. Once there, there was one day
where it would have been good to have had a car, but it was also
good to not have to worry about parking a car the rest of the time.
The 'car day' was a trip out of Colmar to an outlying village of
Eguisheim, which is known for the Church of Saint Peter and Saint
Paul (a 13C chapel) and several Alsatian wine producers, as the
shuttlebus the city offered was over capacity & ran too
infrequently. But it is just as well though, as many of the
Eguisheim visitors were loading up their cars with cases of wines to >>>>> drive home; carting away a lot isn't really an option when flying.
-hh
You should have gone to this gem too: https://riquewihr.fr/fr/ or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riquewihr
Just 7 miles east of Colmar. Very small and great wines. I just
ordered a case of Riesling from a small winery we know there.
Shipping was a lot more than the wine!
Riquewihr is similar and was the either/or choice, as we also visited
Srasbourg too.
There's a lot of such small towns w/wineries in the Alsace region; I
think we have a Karen Brown guidebook which has a couple of
self-driving routes that's on the "to do" list .. my basic conclusion
is that if one wants to get to such small villages, it is better done
with a rental car than by mass transit as we had done.
Forgot to mention that I've looked into the "ship some home" too.
The problem I ran into are that State regulations on shipping of alcohol
vary, and NJ is a "nope!" state.
For hand-carrying, the last time that I can recall packing some 750ml
wine bottles into checked baggage was from Budapest, and their security
folk (at least I hope it was them!) either didn't have TSA keys, or
didn't care: they just cut all the locks off.
-hh
bags from Europe every trip, never had an issue. The record is 7 bottles spread across 3 check bags. We do not lock our bags. You just reminded
me why. Those are flimsy locks that do no real good.
FYI, for a dessert Riesling, instead an Eiswein, consider trying the
often obscure and slightly less super-sweet Beerenauslese. Some
folks find the Eiswein to be too sweet, so this a good alternative,
plus they're less expensive from the same vintner. Can be hard to
find in the USA, though.
On the subject of dessert wines, if you haven't had the opportunity
yet, go mad and buy a bottle of Chateau D'Yquem some time. I've had
the chance to enjoy it two or three times in my life and there is a
bottle in my refrigerator waiting for the right occasion to enjoy it
again.
Very sweet, but also amazingly complex.
I've enjoyed a few Sauternes here or there; I'll have to keep an eye out
for Chateau D'Yquem.
Of course, on this subject, there's also fruit infused Belgian Lambic's
too, which functionally are "dessert beers" (unlike traditional "wild"
yeast Lambic's): I've found that the Kriek (cherry) and the Framboise (raspberry) will pair nicely with cheesecake. In the USA, the main
brand one will find is Lindemans ...figure $15 for a 750ml but I have
found tiny 5oz? fourpacks for sale too, which is a nice size.
FWIW, I'm still on the lookout for a coconut Lambic...but I don't know
if that was a sweettooth or a traditional "wild".
Indiana is OK since about 5 years back. We carry wine home in checked
Riquewihr is similar and was the either/or choice, as we also visited
Srasbourg too.
There's a lot of such small towns w/wineries in the Alsace region; I
think we have a Karen Brown guidebook which has a couple of self-
driving routes that's on the "to do" list .. my basic conclusion is
that if one wants to get to such small villages, it is better done
with a rental car than by mass transit as we had done.
Forgot to mention that I've looked into the "ship some home" too.
The problem I ran into are that State regulations on shipping of
alcohol vary, and NJ is a "nope!" state.
For hand-carrying, the last time that I can recall packing some 750ml
wine bottles into checked baggage was from Budapest, and their
security folk (at least I hope it was them!) either didn't have TSA
keys, or didn't care: they just cut all the locks off.
-hh
bags from Europe every trip, never had an issue. The record is 7 bottles spread across 3 check bags. We do not lock our bags. You just reminded
me why. Those are flimsy locks that do no real good.
On 9/11/2024 5:17 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-09-10 15:54, Tom Elam wrote:Yes, that's why shipping is so expensive.
Indiana is OK since about 5 years back. We carry wine home in checked
Riquewihr is similar and was the either/or choice, as we also
visited Srasbourg too.
There's a lot of such small towns w/wineries in the Alsace region;
I think we have a Karen Brown guidebook which has a couple of self-
driving routes that's on the "to do" list .. my basic conclusion is
that if one wants to get to such small villages, it is better done
with a rental car than by mass transit as we had done.
Forgot to mention that I've looked into the "ship some home" too.
The problem I ran into are that State regulations on shipping of
alcohol vary, and NJ is a "nope!" state.
For hand-carrying, the last time that I can recall packing some
750ml wine bottles into checked baggage was from Budapest, and their
security folk (at least I hope it was them!) either didn't have TSA
keys, or didn't care: they just cut all the locks off.
-hh
bags from Europe every trip, never had an issue. The record is 7
bottles spread across 3 check bags. We do not lock our bags. You just
reminded me why. Those are flimsy locks that do no real good.
And you're paying the tax and duty on those bottles, I assume.
:-)
On 2024-09-11 19:39, Tom Elam wrote:
On 9/11/2024 5:17 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-09-10 15:54, Tom Elam wrote:Yes, that's why shipping is so expensive.
Indiana is OK since about 5 years back. We carry wine home in
Riquewihr is similar and was the either/or choice, as we also
visited Srasbourg too.
There's a lot of such small towns w/wineries in the Alsace region; >>>>>> I think we have a Karen Brown guidebook which has a couple of
self- driving routes that's on the "to do" list .. my basic
conclusion is that if one wants to get to such small villages, it
is better done with a rental car than by mass transit as we had done. >>>>>
Forgot to mention that I've looked into the "ship some home" too.
The problem I ran into are that State regulations on shipping of
alcohol vary, and NJ is a "nope!" state.
For hand-carrying, the last time that I can recall packing some
750ml wine bottles into checked baggage was from Budapest, and
their security folk (at least I hope it was them!) either didn't
have TSA keys, or didn't care: they just cut all the locks off.
-hh
checked bags from Europe every trip, never had an issue. The record
is 7 bottles spread across 3 check bags. We do not lock our bags.
You just reminded me why. Those are flimsy locks that do no real good.
And you're paying the tax and duty on those bottles, I assume.
:-)
But you just talked about carrying wine home in your checked bags.
That's not what anyone I know calls "shipping".
On 9/11/24 10:51 PM, Alan wrote:Is there not also a specific restriction about alcohol? There certainly
On 2024-09-11 19:39, Tom Elam wrote:
On 9/11/2024 5:17 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-09-10 15:54, Tom Elam wrote:Yes, that's why shipping is so expensive.
And you're paying the tax and duty on those bottles, I assume.Indiana is OK since about 5 years back. We carry wine home in
Riquewihr is similar and was the either/or choice, as we also
visited Srasbourg too.
There's a lot of such small towns w/wineries in the Alsace
region; I think we have a Karen Brown guidebook which has a
couple of self- driving routes that's on the "to do" list .. my
basic conclusion is that if one wants to get to such small
villages, it is better done with a rental car than by mass
transit as we had done.
Forgot to mention that I've looked into the "ship some home" too.
The problem I ran into are that State regulations on shipping of
alcohol vary, and NJ is a "nope!" state.
For hand-carrying, the last time that I can recall packing some
750ml wine bottles into checked baggage was from Budapest, and
their security folk (at least I hope it was them!) either didn't
have TSA keys, or didn't care: they just cut all the locks off.
-hh
checked bags from Europe every trip, never had an issue. The record
is 7 bottles spread across 3 check bags. We do not lock our bags.
You just reminded me why. Those are flimsy locks that do no real good. >>>>
:-)
But you just talked about carrying wine home in your checked bags.
That's not what anyone I know calls "shipping".
Its another illustration of the trade-offs.
Carrying them home falls under the US customs $800/person exemption, if
one is within the volume limits too. Even so, the duty rates on
overages isn't onerous .. something like 50 cents per wine bottle.
Shipping has no exemption provision (you're not traveling "with" it).
Plus as I noted, it can be prohibited by State law...and it had been prohibited to be shipped via USPS (Federal Postal laws), so one has to
look to the private services (FedEx/UPS/DHL) for transportation.
On 2024-09-12 05:16, -hh wrote:
On 9/11/24 10:51 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-09-11 19:39, Tom Elam wrote:
On 9/11/2024 5:17 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-09-10 15:54, Tom Elam wrote:Yes, that's why shipping is so expensive.
Indiana is OK since about 5 years back. We carry wine home in
Riquewihr is similar and was the either/or choice, as we also
visited Srasbourg too.
There's a lot of such small towns w/wineries in the Alsace
region; I think we have a Karen Brown guidebook which has a
couple of self- driving routes that's on the "to do" list .. my >>>>>>>> basic conclusion is that if one wants to get to such small
villages, it is better done with a rental car than by mass
transit as we had done.
Forgot to mention that I've looked into the "ship some home" too. >>>>>>>
The problem I ran into are that State regulations on shipping of >>>>>>> alcohol vary, and NJ is a "nope!" state.
For hand-carrying, the last time that I can recall packing some
750ml wine bottles into checked baggage was from Budapest, and
their security folk (at least I hope it was them!) either didn't >>>>>>> have TSA keys, or didn't care: they just cut all the locks off. >>>>>>>
-hh
checked bags from Europe every trip, never had an issue. The
record is 7 bottles spread across 3 check bags. We do not lock our >>>>>> bags. You just reminded me why. Those are flimsy locks that do no
real good.
And you're paying the tax and duty on those bottles, I assume.
:-)
But you just talked about carrying wine home in your checked bags.
That's not what anyone I know calls "shipping".
Its another illustration of the trade-offs.
Carrying them home falls under the US customs $800/person exemption,
if one is within the volume limits too. Even so, the duty rates on
overages isn't onerous .. something like 50 cents per wine bottle.
Shipping has no exemption provision (you're not traveling "with" it).
Plus as I noted, it can be prohibited by State law...and it had been
prohibited to be shipped via USPS (Federal Postal laws), so one has to
look to the private services (FedEx/UPS/DHL) for transportation.
Is there not also a specific restriction about alcohol? There certainly
is in Canada.
:-)
To sum it up, fun but not as much as we thought it might be.
Arriving Paris on time we elected to take a taxi to the hotel. Given it
was 4 of us the taxi was not that much more than the train/Metro and a
lot less hassle. The hotel transfer was on us as we arrived several days before the Viking tour started.
Took our friends to see some museums, the tower level 3, other spots,
and had some incredible meals. However, the friends are not in the best physical shape and that limited our options. We traveled by Metro, Uber,
taxi and RATP. They were fascinated by the Notre Dame crypt, Montmarte
and Musee D'Orsay.
The tower experience was slightly compromised by rain
and poor visibility, but at that point we had no other options for
another day. The just-concluded Olympic games had a few streets closed
and the Champ de Mars still occupied by venues and blocked off.
Leaving Paris by Viking bus via the Luxembourg American cemetery we
arrived the Viking ship at Trier. Spent a week+ on board, visited some Moselle/Rhine River towns in Germany and France. A WWII buff, I was
amazed the the Allies ever made it across the part of Moselle valley we
saw.
Viking's U.S. marketing portrays the company's river cruises as
exceptional. In our experience with prior European river cruises they
are not. The ship needed some cosmetic refurb, on day 1 a "technical
issue" delay caused us to miss our first stop, and the food and crew
service was very good, but not great. We also had a few tour guides that
did not speak great English. My wife had to assist one with translating
the excellent French of a local vineyard owner.
On the other hand we had a medical emergency that led to an unplanned
stop. It was handled well and did not cause any issues for the schedule.
Arriving Basel we did the ship's included city tour that was very well
done. That afternoon we departed for Zurich, toured that city center for
a day and a half by tram with a lake boat ride thrown in, and had a
great meal on the last evening. Jolly good fun.
Had a bit of a tram experience. The hotel was a few miles west of the
lake and city center. Departing the hotel on line 4 for our dinner the
tram stopped after about 10 minutes and it was announced that there had
been an accident ahead involving a tram and car. Line 4 was being
delayed and diverted. Almost all the passengers left the tram. Two young locals offered to show us how to get to our destination. We followed
their instructions and arrived via a different route with minimal delay. Could have figured that out ourselves but their assistance was very
helpful.
Flights back through Philly were both on time. Got to experience the 787
for the first time too.
Next year? I'm voting for 2 weeks in southern/western France via rental
car. The wife has veto power but there is a still lot we have not seen.
And Hugh, I checked with National. My age is not an issue for them.
On 9/1/2024 10:27 AM, -hh wrote:
On 8/31/24 5:13 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 8/30/2024 9:38 AM, -hh wrote:
On 8/30/24 9:15 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
To sum it up, fun but not as much as we thought it might be.
That happens. On our own last trans-Atlantic outing, we both caught
some sort of not-CoVid bug around ten days in, which was unpleasant.
Arriving Paris on time we elected to take a taxi to the hotel.
Given it was 4 of us the taxi was not that much more than the
train/Metro and a lot less hassle. The hotel transfer was on us as
we arrived several days before the Viking tour started.
Price break on four makes it worth doing AFAIC, even before
considering your later comment about your travel companion's lower
physical shape.
Took our friends to see some museums, the tower level 3, other
spots, and had some incredible meals. However, the friends are not
in the best physical shape and that limited our options. We
traveled by Metro, Uber, taxi and RATP. They were fascinated by the
Notre Dame crypt, Montmarte and Musee D'Orsay.
I've really enjoyed the Orsay; its also a nice place to plan taking
a lunch break, in the cafe that's "inside" of the clock face.
The tower experience was slightly compromised by rain and poor
visibility, but at that point we had no other options for another
day. The just-concluded Olympic games had a few streets closed and
the Champ de Mars still occupied by venues and blocked off.
Leaving Paris by Viking bus via the Luxembourg American cemetery we
arrived the Viking ship at Trier. Spent a week+ on board, visited
some Moselle/Rhine River towns in Germany and France. A WWII buff,
I was amazed the the Allies ever made it across the part of Moselle
valley we saw.
I learned awhile back that my father did one of those Mosel
crossings, somewhat proximate to the town of Zell, if I recall
correctly. I understand that the river looks somewhat different
today, as the dam system for ship navigation has changed over the
decades (less current; possibly slightly higher average water levels
too).
Viking's U.S. marketing portrays the company's river cruises as
exceptional. In our experience with prior European river cruises
they are not. The ship needed some cosmetic refurb, on day 1 a
"technical issue" delay caused us to miss our first stop, and the
food and crew service was very good, but not great. We also had a
few tour guides that did not speak great English. My wife had to
assist one with translating the excellent French of a local
vineyard owner.
I don't recall the details why we skipped using Viking in EU, but
we've had good success with Uniworld and AMA Waterways. One trade-
off for comparing these two is that Uniworld had free DIY laundry
onboard (helps lighten the bags) but AMA had better wines & wine
stewards at dinner.
On the other hand we had a medical emergency that led to an
unplanned stop. It was handled well and did not cause any issues
for the schedule.
Arriving Basel we did the ship's included city tour that was very
well done. That afternoon we departed for Zurich, toured that city
center for a day and a half by tram with a lake boat ride thrown
in, and had a great meal on the last evening. Jolly good fun.
There's a traditional swiss restaurant that I'd like to get back to
in Zurich, IIRC, not far from the Fraümunster: a good spot for Rösti. >>>>
Had a bit of a tram experience. The hotel was a few miles west of
the lake and city center. Departing the hotel on line 4 for our
dinner the tram stopped after about 10 minutes and it was announced
that there had been an accident ahead involving a tram and car.
Line 4 was being delayed and diverted. Almost all the passengers
left the tram. Two young locals offered to show us how to get to
our destination. We followed their instructions and arrived via a
different route with minimal delay. Could have figured that out
ourselves but their assistance was very helpful.
Things like that happen. Fortunately, you weren't time-stressed
such as heading to the airport for a departure flight. Have had
that happen with a train issue in Belgium.
Flights back through Philly were both on time. Got to experience
the 787 for the first time too.
IIRC, the 787's Polaris is a bit more roomy than on their 757 version. >>>>
Next year? I'm voting for 2 weeks in southern/western France via
rental car. The wife has veto power but there is a still lot we
have not seen. And Hugh, I checked with National. My age is not an
issue for them.
Been meaning to get around to a "drive around" in FR as well:
several different directions though (Normandy, Mont-Saint-Miche,
Bordeaux, Chateaus, etc).
Plus one probably unknown to Americans sight is the city of Bourges,
as there's a huge cathedral there that gets compared to Notre Dame
(but without crowds), plus an evening walk through its old timbered
houses section is nice: tastefully lit. A single overnight is
adequate; figure it as 3.5+hrs (175mi) drive due south of Paris.
And on the rental car, the important thing here is that the risk of
age restrictions is now on your checklist to verify in advance,
instead of getting blindsided at the last minute by it.
-hh
We ate in that same D'Orsey restaurant. Much nicer than the small
snack bar on the ground floor.
I think the onboard AMA experience is every bit as good as Viking.
But their excursions are better and the cabins a bit larger. My take
is that Viking has become so big that with multiple ships in a port
as seemed to happen frequently they have issues with smaller places
some of the AMA excursions we liked. Example - the small music museum
at Rudesheim. I also remember that the guides were better and we had
more free time in port.
FWIW, some of this also depends on which river you're on, as the ships
on the Rhine have grown in size which limits where they can dock.
I just today watched a YouTube on touring France that may change my
mind a bit about next year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RdNGT1jz8
[rearraging]
We have done 2 weeks in Normandy/Brittany and about the same in Paris
plus 2 trips that took us to the south coast. Time to branch out.
Massif Central, Loire Valley and Alsace are high on my list.
Yes, there's a huge number of regions in France that US tourists are
utterly unaware of. There's some pretty wild scenery/canyons
someplace that I can't recall at the moment. I think I could easily
do 5-6 trips, not too much unlike we've already done in Germany.
Taking the TGV to a city then renting the car if you need it could be
a lot of fun, even if a bit more expensive. Thoughts?
We used the TGV to go from Paris (Gare de l’Est) to Colmar/Strasbourg
(near the Rhine) in 2022: it was straightforward, pretty easy, and
quite fast city to city: Strasbourg's just 1:45. I've also used the
Brussels to Paris "Thales" express too; IIRC, its just ~90 minutes or
so as well.
For Colmar, the train station's not super-central, so it was an easy
4-5 block walk pulling our bags. Once there, there was one day where
it would have been good to have had a car, but it was also good to not
have to worry about parking a car the rest of the time. The 'car day'
was a trip out of Colmar to an outlying village of Eguisheim, which is
known for the Church of Saint Peter and Saint Paul (a 13C chapel) and
several Alsatian wine producers, as the shuttlebus the city offered
was over capacity & ran too infrequently. But it is just as well
though, as many of the Eguisheim visitors were loading up their cars
with cases of wines to drive home; carting away a lot isn't really an
option when flying.
-hh
You should have gone to this gem too: https://riquewihr.fr/fr/ or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riquewihr
Just 7 miles east of Colmar. Very small and great wines. I just ordered
a case of Riesling from a small winery we know there. Shipping was a lot
more than the wine!