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On Thu, 1 May 2025 01:41:42 -0000 (UTC), Marion wrote :

I may have to change my optimistic assessment of Apple's veracity from...

Apple never tells the truth, except in court.
...To...
*Apple never tells the truth*.

Proving Apple can never be trusted to ever tell the truth, even in court...

Here's the NYT coverage of Apple's always-brazen lies, even in court. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/30/technology/apple-epic-app-store-ruling.html

While Apple has built their entire (thriving) business on brazen lies, in general, Apple usually pays their way out of their criminal contempt.

We'll see what penalty will be assessed to Apple for their never-ending
brazen lies, but at least the judge appears to have put an injunction on
Apple to prevent Apple from collecting more fees from their actions.

1. The judge ruled Apple could no longer take commissions from sales
outside the App Store.

2. The judge restricted Apple from writing rules that would prevent
developers from creating buttons or links to pay outside the store.

3. The judge ruled Apple could not create messages to discourage users from making purchases.

4. In addition, the judge forwarded the case to the U.S. attorney for the Northern District of California to investigate Apple for criminal contempt.

What will it take for Apple to *ever* tell the truth? Even in court?

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What will it take for Apple to *ever* tell the truth? Even in court?

The NYT said Apple "outright lied", but let's see what the WSJ says...
<https://www.wsj.com/tech/apple-violated-antitrust-ruling-federal-judge-finds-66b85957>

1.'Apple willfully chose not to comply with this court's injunction,'
2. Vice President of Finance Alex Roman 'outright lied under oath.'
3. The court took the extraordinary step of referring the matter
to federal prosecutors for a criminal contempt investigation.

a. While Phil Schiller, being an honest person among thieves,
had suggested complying with the law, Tim Cook overruled him.
b. Not only did Tim Cook participate in the brazen lie, but in addition,
Tim Cook had Apple add a "scare screen" to scare its own customers!
c. The entire executive team, save for Schiller, participated in the scam.

Shocked. Shocked I say. Apple lied? In court? How could it be?

And it's not just the US court's rulings that Apple brazenly breaks.
Just last week the European Commission fined Apple for similar conduct.

Fancy that. This proves yet again... Apple brazenly lies to everyone.

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On Thu, 1 May 2025 02:01:50 -0000 (UTC), Marion wrote :

c. The entire executive team, save for Schiller, participated in the scam. Shocked. Shocked I say. Apple lied? In court? How could it be?

<https://variety.com/2025/biz/news/epic-games-apple-suit-app-store-1236383274/>

What's interesting are some of the words used by the US courts in an
attempt to get Apple to comply with US laws and to stop lying to all.

"This is an injunction, not a negotiation.
There are no do-overs once a party willfully disregards a court order"

"Effective immediately Apple will no longer impede developers'
ability to communicate with users"

"Apple's VP of Finance 'outright lied' to the court under oath"

"Apple knew exactly what it was doing"

I've always assessed the facts logically and sensibly as
*Apple never tells the truth, except in court*

But we have to assess Apple on the facts as reported in the news...
*Apple never tells the truth, even in court*

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On Thu, 1 May 2025 02:10:54 -0000 (UTC), Marion wrote :

But we have to assess Apple on the facts as reported in the news...
*Apple never tells the truth, even in court*

Let's see what the venerable Financial Times has to say about it.
*Apple referred to criminal prosecutor*
<https://www.ft.com/content/1ac69bc1-6269-4a18-9757-2528bc1e2673>
"To hide the truth, vice-president of finance, Alex Roman,
outright lied under oath. Documents uncovered during the case
revealed 'Apple knew exactly what it was doing'"

It won't be the first time Apple has been criminally convicted of lying to everyone (ala, Apple's French criminal record), but what we will have to
wait for is whether Apple can pay its way out of this new (upcoming)
potential conviction so that they won't have to admit that they lied.

Time will tell... notable quotes from the Financial Times report...

"Apple's finance executives lied under oath"
"Apple willfully chose not to comply [with the law]"
"As always, the [infamous Apple] cover-up made it worse."

What's interesting to me is that I always thought Apple at least told the
truth in court (and I'm on record, many times, stating that assessment).

But now, we've proven that Apple doesn't even tell the truth in court.

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On 2025-05-01 13:52, badgolferman wrote:

Marion wrote:

Shocked. I'm shocked. Apple systematically lied. In court. Under oath.
Shocked I say...

*Court finds Apple, executive lied under oath in court*

<https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/30/court-finds-apple-executive-lied-under-oath.html>

1. Apple willfully violated a 2021 decision that came out of the Epic
Games case, a federal judge found.

2. "Neither Apple, nor its counsel, corrected the, now obvious, lies,"
Rogers wrote.

3. Rogers added that she referred the matter to U.S. attorneys to
investigate whether to pursue criminal contempt proceedings on both
Roman and Apple.

This isn't the first (nor last) time Apple brazenly lied in court.
I may have to change my optimistic assessment of Apple's veracity
from...

Apple never tells the truth, except in court.
...To...
*Apple never tells the truth*.

The judge says Apple lied under oath and continued charging fees even
though ordered not to do so. How will this be spinned? We know Apple
will continue to lie, but surely the Apple apologists won't. Are they
even embarrassed by what Apple has done?

Why would I be "embarrassed", quisling?

Apple is a COMPANY.

A company that makes PRODUCTS that I find work well for me.

Unlike you, my self-esteem isn't attached to what a company that makes
products I happen use does.

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On 2025-05-01 15:08, badgolferman wrote:

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

On 2025-05-01 13:52, badgolferman wrote:

Marion wrote:

Shocked. I'm shocked. Apple systematically lied. In court. Under oath. >>>> Shocked I say...

*Court finds Apple, executive lied under oath in court*

<https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/30/court-finds-apple-executive-lied-under-oath.html>

1. Apple willfully violated a 2021 decision that came out of the Epic
Games case, a federal judge found.

2. "Neither Apple, nor its counsel, corrected the, now obvious, lies," >>>> Rogers wrote.

3. Rogers added that she referred the matter to U.S. attorneys to
investigate whether to pursue criminal contempt proceedings on both
Roman and Apple.

This isn't the first (nor last) time Apple brazenly lied in court.
I may have to change my optimistic assessment of Apple's veracity
from...

Apple never tells the truth, except in court.
...To...
*Apple never tells the truth*.

The judge says Apple lied under oath and continued charging fees even
though ordered not to do so. How will this be spinned? We know Apple
will continue to lie, but surely the Apple apologists won't. Are they
even embarrassed by what Apple has done?

Why would I be "embarrassed", quisling?

Apple is a COMPANY.

A company that makes PRODUCTS that I find work well for me.

Unlike you, my self-esteem isn't attached to what a company that makes
products I happen use does.

You should be embarrassed, 51. In your mind Apple has never and can never
do wrong. Your constant defending of everything they’ve done is on full display throughout Usenet. Indeed, you should be angry that every day more news reports prove you wrong for holding Apple up as a beacon of virtue and innovation.

You're utterly wrong, lickspittle.

From what I've read, they most definitely DID do wrong.

I'm just not understanding the mindset that leads you to conclude I
should be embarrassed about it.

When you’re ready to come down from the pink cloud Tim Cook has prepared for his worshippers we’ll be here to keep your fall from being too hard.

LOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!

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On Thu, 1 May 2025 20:52:32 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote :

The judge says Apple lied under oath and continued charging fees even
though ordered not to do so. How will this be spinned? We know Apple
will continue to lie, but surely the Apple apologists won't. Are they
even embarrassed by what Apple has done?

Apparently the judge had asked for internal documents before making the decision, where after the judge checked the documents, all hell broke loose
on Apple (as it's rare for civil contempt to be considered criminal).

To his credit, Phil Schiller apparently suggested following the law.

Apparently the documents showed Schiller was overruled by Tim Cook, & then,
"To hide the truth", VP of Finance, Alex Roman, "outright lied under oath".

The judge ruled that the evidence showed "Apple knew exactly what it was
doing" which is why the newly re-enforced injunction is "non negotiable".

What I find revealing is how bold Apple's disdain for the law is.
It will be interesting what happens with the upcoming criminal case.

Last time Apple was forced to publish, for a month, they lied to the world,
but the minute that month was up, Apple trolls said it didn't happen.

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On Thu, 1 May 2025 22:08:51 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote :

You should be embarrassed, 51. In your mind Apple has never and can never
do wrong. Your constant defending of everything they've done is on full display throughout Usenet. Indeed, you should be angry that every day more news reports prove you wrong for holding Apple up as a beacon of virtue and innovation.

When you're ready to come down from the pink cloud Tim Cook has prepared
for his worshippers we'll be here to keep your fall from being too hard.

FACT. I was wrong. Again. Dead wrong on an assessment of fact. I apologize.

What's interesting is this is perhaps likely to be a FEDERAL CRIMINAL case against Apple, this time in the United States, and not just in France.
<https://www.thurrott.com/apple/320359/after-it-willfully-violated-court-order-in-epic-v-apple-judge-comes-down-hard-on-apple>

While I'm on record for assessing that Apple at least tells the truth in
court, I'm personally shocked that Apple apparently "lied repeatedly in
court", particularly the vice president of finance, Alex Roman.

To his credit though, Phil Schiller was apparently truthful in court.
<https://www.thurrott.com/apple/317698/apple-exec-admits-27-percent-app-store-fee-was-likely-a-violation-of-court-order>

So, while Phil Schiller did exactly what I had assessed from facts that
Apple does, which is tell the truth only in court, I was dead wrong in my assessment in that Alex Roman didn't even tell the truth, in court.
<https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/business/money-report/court-finds-apple-executive-lied-under-oath/4173549/>

Court records show CFO Luca Maestri convinced Tim Cook to go the route of deliberately repeatedly lying to the court - which is a criminal offense.
<https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2025/05/01/apple_epic_lies_possible_crime/>

Sigh. Everything I learn about Apple forces me to reassess their strategy.
a. It used to be fair to assess Apple as:
"Apple only tells the truth, in court"
b. But now, it seems we're going to have to change that assessment of fact:
"Apple doesn't even tell the truth, in court"

Mea culpa.
I'm sorry I mislead this group by making a wrong assessment of fact.

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