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In case you missed it there was an earlier post ...
On 12/18/24 10:29 AM, Tom Elam wrote:So where are you going? Or would you rather keep us in suspense?
In case you missed it there was an earlier post ...
Yes, we all saw that troll attempt too.
In the meantime, I've started to book our first trip for 2025. Its a
bit earlier than what we normally do to do this, but airfares were
favorable. Plus I discovered that a FFM account that we'd not been
paying attention to had built up a healthy balance, so with just ~20% of
its balance, got two RT tickets for just $50.66 (total for two).
On 2024-12-18 09:17, -hh wrote:
On 12/18/24 10:29 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
In case you missed it there was an earlier post ...
Yes, we all saw that troll attempt too.
In the meantime, I've started to book our first trip for 2025. Its a
bit earlier than what we normally do to do this, but airfares were
favorable. Plus I discovered that a FFM account that we'd not been
paying attention to had built up a healthy balance, so with just ~20%
of its balance, got two RT tickets for just $50.66 (total for two).
So where are you going? Or would you rather keep us in suspense?
:-)
On 12/18/2024 12:17 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/18/24 10:29 AM, Tom Elam wrote:Ah yes, accumulating FF miles on company travel took us to Hawaii 9
In case you missed it there was an earlier post ...
Yes, we all saw that troll attempt too.
In the meantime, I've started to book our first trip for 2025. Its a
bit earlier than what we normally do to do this, but airfares were
favorable. Plus I discovered that a FFM account that we'd not been
paying attention to had built up a healthy balance, so with just ~20%
of its balance, got two RT tickets for just $50.66 (total for two).
-hh
times with almost no expense. Enjoy it while you can.
On 12/18/2024 1:11 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-18 09:17, -hh wrote:
On 12/18/24 10:29 AM, Tom Elam wrote:So where are you going? Or would you rather keep us in suspense?
In case you missed it there was an earlier post ...
Yes, we all saw that troll attempt too.
In the meantime, I've started to book our first trip for 2025. Its a
bit earlier than what we normally do to do this, but airfares were
favorable. Plus I discovered that a FFM account that we'd not been
paying attention to had built up a healthy balance, so with just ~20%
of its balance, got two RT tickets for just $50.66 (total for two).
:-)
Alan once again deflects attention away from the issue.
On 2024-12-19 07:33, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/18/2024 1:11 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-18 09:17, -hh wrote:
On 12/18/24 10:29 AM, Tom Elam wrote:So where are you going? Or would you rather keep us in suspense?
In case you missed it there was an earlier post ...
Yes, we all saw that troll attempt too.
In the meantime, I've started to book our first trip for 2025. Its
a bit earlier than what we normally do to do this, but airfares were
favorable. Plus I discovered that a FFM account that we'd not been
paying attention to had built up a healthy balance, so with just
~20% of its balance, got two RT tickets for just $50.66 (total for
two).
:-)
Alan once again deflects attention away from the issue.
Alan chose to ignore your bullshit.
On 12/19/24 12:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-19 07:33, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/18/2024 1:11 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-18 09:17, -hh wrote:
On 12/18/24 10:29 AM, Tom Elam wrote:So where are you going? Or would you rather keep us in suspense?
In case you missed it there was an earlier post ...
Yes, we all saw that troll attempt too.
In the meantime, I've started to book our first trip for 2025. Its >>>>> a bit earlier than what we normally do to do this, but airfares
were favorable. Plus I discovered that a FFM account that we'd not
been paying attention to had built up a healthy balance, so with
just ~20% of its balance, got two RT tickets for just $50.66 (total
for two).
:-)
Alan once again deflects attention away from the issue.
Alan chose to ignore your bullshit.
Well, it did make me briefly wonder just how many tickets to Hawaii I
could buy from my main FFM account, if I were so inclined...
...although since his claim was retrospective, retconning here needs to include FFMs already spent on destinations far further afield, such as
120K dropped for a BusinessFirst upgrade on EWR-HKG: that amount was probably worth 3 FFM coach tickets to HNL just on its own.
On 12/20/2024 4:26 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/19/24 1:57 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/19/24 12:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-19 07:33, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/18/2024 1:11 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-18 09:17, -hh wrote:
On 12/18/24 10:29 AM, Tom Elam wrote:So where are you going? Or would you rather keep us in suspense?
In case you missed it there was an earlier post ...
Yes, we all saw that troll attempt too.
In the meantime, I've started to book our first trip for 2025.
Its a bit earlier than what we normally do to do this, but
airfares were favorable. Plus I discovered that a FFM account
that we'd not been paying attention to had built up a healthy
balance, so with just ~20% of its balance, got two RT tickets for >>>>>>> just $50.66 (total for two).
:-)
Alan once again deflects attention away from the issue.
Alan chose to ignore your bullshit.
Well, it did make me briefly wonder just how many tickets to Hawaii I
could buy from my main FFM account, if I were so inclined...
...although since his claim was retrospective, retconning here needs
to include FFMs already spent on destinations far further afield,
such as 120K dropped for a BusinessFirst upgrade on EWR-HKG: that
amount was probably worth 3 FFM coach tickets to HNL just on its own.
Well, while waiting for my Windows VM to update to version 24H2, I
found this:
<https://awardwallet.com/blog/new-unpublished-united-partner-award-
chart/>
Seems that routes to Hawaii used to be as cheap as just 10K/pp, so 9
coach RT's for two could have cost as little as just 360K FFM's.
Overall, the devaluation of FFMs since that era illustrates that all
other factors being equal, it makes more sense to use them up fairly
proactively instead of hoarding them.
-hh
I think I paid 15-20k pp.
Not to mention about 10 trips to Europe on points too, more
than 1 first class. Plus quite a few family ski trips.
This is why I take cash rebates instead of points.
On 12/20/2024 9:58 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/20/24 7:05 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/20/2024 4:26 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/19/24 1:57 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/19/24 12:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-19 07:33, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/18/2024 1:11 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-18 09:17, -hh wrote:
On 12/18/24 10:29 AM, Tom Elam wrote:So where are you going? Or would you rather keep us in suspense? >>>>>>>>
In case you missed it there was an earlier post ...
Yes, we all saw that troll attempt too.
In the meantime, I've started to book our first trip for 2025. >>>>>>>>> Its a bit earlier than what we normally do to do this, but
airfares were favorable. Plus I discovered that a FFM account >>>>>>>>> that we'd not been paying attention to had built up a healthy >>>>>>>>> balance, so with just ~20% of its balance, got two RT tickets >>>>>>>>> for just $50.66 (total for two).
:-)
Alan once again deflects attention away from the issue.
Alan chose to ignore your bullshit.
Well, it did make me briefly wonder just how many tickets to Hawaii
I could buy from my main FFM account, if I were so inclined...
...although since his claim was retrospective, retconning here
needs to include FFMs already spent on destinations far further
afield, such as 120K dropped for a BusinessFirst upgrade on EWR-
HKG: that amount was probably worth 3 FFM coach tickets to HNL
just on its own.
Well, while waiting for my Windows VM to update to version 24H2, I
found this:
<https://awardwallet.com/blog/new-unpublished-united-partner-award-
chart/>
Seems that routes to Hawaii used to be as cheap as just 10K/pp, so 9
coach RT's for two could have cost as little as just 360K FFM's.
Overall, the devaluation of FFMs since that era illustrates that all
other factors being equal, it makes more sense to use them up fairly
proactively instead of hoarding them.
-hh
I think I paid 15-20k pp.
I figured 20K/pp for round trip, so 15K would've needed even less.
Not to mention about 10 trips to Europe on points too, more than 1
first class. Plus quite a few family ski trips.
Probably ~50K for business to EU. Domestic used to be very cheap,
like 5K cheap, but no longer: I ran into a quite unreasonably high
fare on a domestic itinerary last year, such that I chose to use FFMs
instead of paying north of $1K cash and it was 69,600: an illustration
of limited competition in some markets as well as the systematic FFM
devaluation.
This is why I take cash rebates instead of points.
Cashback is certainly more fungible and it doesn't depreciate as fast,
but once again, the benefit is from using accumulated balances. I'm
modestly humored that I'd rediscovered up this forgotten FFM account;
it will probably net somewhere around five free(ish) flights on its own.
I'm not a fan of leaving money in an account that does not earn
anything. There is the phenomenon called price inflation. That is a tax
of sorts on cash balances.
So, my rebates go reduce current card balances a bit, freeing up cash
flow elsewhere. At 0.65% of total income not a major factor, but in retirement every little bit helps.
The only cash balances we own other than currency in our pockets
earns something. The main savings account is 4.5% APR.
On 2/2/2025 1:41 PM, -hh wrote:
On 2/2/25 6:46 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/23/2024 7:13 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/23/24 9:20 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/20/2024 9:58 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/20/24 7:05 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/20/2024 4:26 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/19/24 1:57 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/19/24 12:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-19 07:33, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/18/2024 1:11 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-18 09:17, -hh wrote:
On 12/18/24 10:29 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
In case you missed it there was an earlier post ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, we all saw that troll attempt too.
In the meantime, I've started to book our first trip for >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2025. Its a bit earlier than what we normally do to do >>>>>>>>>>>>> this, but airfares were favorable. Plus I discovered that a >>>>>>>>>>>>> FFM account that we'd not been paying attention to had >>>>>>>>>>>>> built up a healthy balance, so with just ~20% of its >>>>>>>>>>>>> balance, got two RT tickets for just $50.66 (total for two). >>>>>>>>>>>> So where are you going? Or would you rather keep us in >>>>>>>>>>>> suspense?
:-)
Alan once again deflects attention away from the issue.
Alan chose to ignore your bullshit.
Well, it did make me briefly wonder just how many tickets to >>>>>>>>> Hawaii I could buy from my main FFM account, if I were so
inclined...
...although since his claim was retrospective, retconning here >>>>>>>>> needs to include FFMs already spent on destinations far further >>>>>>>>> afield, such as 120K dropped for a BusinessFirst upgrade on
EWR- HKG: that amount was probably worth 3 FFM coach tickets >>>>>>>>> to HNL just on its own.
Well, while waiting for my Windows VM to update to version 24H2, >>>>>>>> I found this:
<https://awardwallet.com/blog/new-unpublished-united-partner-
award- chart/>
Seems that routes to Hawaii used to be as cheap as just 10K/pp, >>>>>>>> so 9 coach RT's for two could have cost as little as just 360K >>>>>>>> FFM's.
Overall, the devaluation of FFMs since that era illustrates that >>>>>>>> all other factors being equal, it makes more sense to use them >>>>>>>> up fairly proactively instead of hoarding them.
-hh
I think I paid 15-20k pp.
I figured 20K/pp for round trip, so 15K would've needed even less. >>>>>>
Not to mention about 10 trips to Europe on points too, more than >>>>>>> 1 first class. Plus quite a few family ski trips.
Probably ~50K for business to EU. Domestic used to be very cheap, >>>>>> like 5K cheap, but no longer: I ran into a quite unreasonably high >>>>>> fare on a domestic itinerary last year, such that I chose to use
FFMs instead of paying north of $1K cash and it was 69,600: an
illustration of limited competition in some markets as well as the >>>>>> systematic FFM devaluation.
This is why I take cash rebates instead of points.
Cashback is certainly more fungible and it doesn't depreciate as
fast, but once again, the benefit is from using accumulated
balances. I'm modestly humored that I'd rediscovered up this
forgotten FFM account; it will probably net somewhere around five
free(ish) flights on its own.
I'm not a fan of leaving money in an account that does not earn
anything. There is the phenomenon called price inflation. That is a
tax of sorts on cash balances.
There's invariably a price to be paid to maintain some ready
liquidity for an emergency fund, or even just for fiscal management
convenience.
So, my rebates go reduce current card balances a bit, freeing up
cash flow elsewhere. At 0.65% of total income not a major factor,
but in retirement every little bit helps.
I've never even thought about bothering to track cashback balances
as a percentage of total Net Worth. And since 0.65% of a ~$2M Net
Worth is $13K - - a pretty high balance for retained cashbacks - -
this suggests some other interpretation of what you're saying.
The only cash balances we own other than currency in our pockets
earns something. The main savings account is 4.5% APR.
Sure, but HYSA rates have been declining over the past few months in
particular; one that we have which was close to 5.5% earlier this
year is already down to 4.4% and I expect it to drop further. If
one really wants inflation protection without Market risks, you're
looking more at TIPS and/or I-Bonds, both of which have their own
pros/cons.
-hh
You go off the rails again. Way off. Rebates are just another
positive cash flow.
Except that they're not a net positive when you paid more than cash.
This is a discussion before we've had before: it revealed that you've
tended to use large chains where credit cards aren't surcharged,
unlike my observation in small businesses where +3% isn't uncommon.
I never mentioned any net worth contribution.
Correct; I mentioned it to note that the accumulated cashbacks are
contextually insignificant vs net worth.
Have you not learned that for retirement you need to build
diversified positive cash flow streams that give you financial options?
Irrelevant to credit card cash-backs. Why have you not learned yet to
waste your time chasing ankle-biters?
That means among other options reducing fixed expenses like interest
obligations buying assets like EOS (look it up) that pay cash
dividends, and maybe some part-time gig income.
Still irrelevant to credit card cash-backs...
But insofar as EOS, I assume you're referring to "Eaton Vance Enhance
Equity Income Fund II Common Stock", not the crypto coin of the same
name that's down by -85% over the past 5 years.
If one actually has a free cash flow stream tight enough that monthly
dividends are important, then I can see how EOS could be tempting,
particularly with it currently paying a ~7.5% dividend rate, which is
roughly a +3% for its Risk Premia over US10Y, or +5.4% over the
Risk+Inflation Premia of US10YTIP.
Of course, there's also other questions too, such as its tax
implications, for a MUTF, they're likely categorized as Ordinary
Dividends instead of Qualified, plus who knows how much the MUTF
throws on at the end of the year in STCG, LTCG, etc, which may not
even show up as real cash. It may be fine in a tax-advantaged
account, but I'd dig a bit further before contemplating it for a
brokerage ... plus for upper marginal income tax brackets, another
contender could be the likes of VWAHX. It also pays out monthly, and
its lower return is offset by being Federal Income Tax exempt, which
can provide an effective returns boost of 24%-32%/etc.
-hh
And you ignore that you might be paying higher prices at those small
local places, even with a negotiated cash discount, than you might pay
at national chains.
Plus, how many purchases do you make that are large
enough to even bother negotiating on price?
Eaton Vance is correct. I do not own it, that was just an example. Considering buying some though. I don't do crypto.
Even without my dividends we are more than OK on cash flow. That extra
cash is used for more travel and entertainment. We just booked a 2 week
trip to Italy and Croatia. The dividend fund I do use pays out a before-
tax mix of qualified and ordinary dividends with a cost-basis annual
yield of 7-8%, just like EOS. There are no capital gains paid out. At
the moment if I sell the fund I do own there would be some LTCG. That's
a good thing.
So I checked out VHAHX. Sounded interesting at first. It's currently
trading at $10.66, about where it was in 2005. The January dividend was $0.034, or about an annual return of 3.8%. And, trading at it's 2005
NAV. Except for a 2022-centered dip dividends have not changed
materially since 2015. No growth in dividends either. Even at top tax
rates these dividends would not be materially different from what I'm
already getting.
After-tax, state and federal, based on my 2024 dividend mix my fund is
paying about 5.8% per year. Since in 2020 inception my fund's NAV is up 15%.
My current LTCG gain is less, about 5%, mainly because I bought in
starting over 2 years after inception.
Before that I owned AT&T but bailed before the 2022 dividend and
resulting stock price collapse. That was a good move.
Thanks, but I think I'll happily pay the taxes and enjoy the extra
after-tax income for now.
On 12/23/2024 7:13 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/23/24 9:20 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/20/2024 9:58 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/20/24 7:05 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/20/2024 4:26 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/19/24 1:57 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/19/24 12:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-19 07:33, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/18/2024 1:11 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-18 09:17, -hh wrote:
On 12/18/24 10:29 AM, Tom Elam wrote:So where are you going? Or would you rather keep us in suspense? >>>>>>>>>>
In case you missed it there was an earlier post ...
Yes, we all saw that troll attempt too.
In the meantime, I've started to book our first trip for >>>>>>>>>>> 2025. Its a bit earlier than what we normally do to do this, >>>>>>>>>>> but airfares were favorable. Plus I discovered that a FFM >>>>>>>>>>> account that we'd not been paying attention to had built up a >>>>>>>>>>> healthy balance, so with just ~20% of its balance, got two RT >>>>>>>>>>> tickets for just $50.66 (total for two).
:-)
Alan once again deflects attention away from the issue.
Alan chose to ignore your bullshit.
Well, it did make me briefly wonder just how many tickets to
Hawaii I could buy from my main FFM account, if I were so
inclined...
...although since his claim was retrospective, retconning here
needs to include FFMs already spent on destinations far further
afield, such as 120K dropped for a BusinessFirst upgrade on EWR- >>>>>>> HKG: that amount was probably worth 3 FFM coach tickets to HNL >>>>>>> just on its own.
Well, while waiting for my Windows VM to update to version 24H2, I >>>>>> found this:
<https://awardwallet.com/blog/new-unpublished-united-partner-
award- chart/>
Seems that routes to Hawaii used to be as cheap as just 10K/pp, so >>>>>> 9 coach RT's for two could have cost as little as just 360K FFM's. >>>>>>
Overall, the devaluation of FFMs since that era illustrates that
all other factors being equal, it makes more sense to use them up
fairly proactively instead of hoarding them.
-hh
I think I paid 15-20k pp.
I figured 20K/pp for round trip, so 15K would've needed even less.
Not to mention about 10 trips to Europe on points too, more than 1
first class. Plus quite a few family ski trips.
Probably ~50K for business to EU. Domestic used to be very cheap,
like 5K cheap, but no longer: I ran into a quite unreasonably high
fare on a domestic itinerary last year, such that I chose to use
FFMs instead of paying north of $1K cash and it was 69,600: an
illustration of limited competition in some markets as well as the
systematic FFM devaluation.
This is why I take cash rebates instead of points.
Cashback is certainly more fungible and it doesn't depreciate as
fast, but once again, the benefit is from using accumulated
balances. I'm modestly humored that I'd rediscovered up this
forgotten FFM account; it will probably net somewhere around five
free(ish) flights on its own.
I'm not a fan of leaving money in an account that does not earn
anything. There is the phenomenon called price inflation. That is a
tax of sorts on cash balances.
There's invariably a price to be paid to maintain some ready liquidity
for an emergency fund, or even just for fiscal management convenience.
So, my rebates go reduce current card balances a bit, freeing up cash
flow elsewhere. At 0.65% of total income not a major factor, but in
retirement every little bit helps.
I've never even thought about bothering to track cashback balances as
a percentage of total Net Worth. And since 0.65% of a ~$2M Net Worth
is $13K - - a pretty high balance for retained cashbacks - - this
suggests some other interpretation of what you're saying.
The only cash balances we own other than currency in our pockets
earns something. The main savings account is 4.5% APR.
Sure, but HYSA rates have been declining over the past few months in
particular; one that we have which was close to 5.5% earlier this year
is already down to 4.4% and I expect it to drop further. If one
really wants inflation protection without Market risks, you're looking
more at TIPS and/or I-Bonds, both of which have their own pros/cons.
-hh
You go off the rails again. Way off. Rebates are just another positive
cash flow.
I never mentioned any net worth contribution.
Have you not
learned that for retirement you need to build diversified positive cash
flow streams that give you financial options?
That means among other
options reducing fixed expenses like interest obligations buying assets
like EOS (look it up) that pay cash dividends, and maybe some part-time
gig income.
On 2/18/2025 6:25 AM, -hh wrote:
On 2/17/25 16:19, Tom Elam wrote:
On 2/15/2025 6:47 PM, -hh wrote:
After nearly two weeks of silence, on 2/15/25 10:36, Tom Elam wrote:
On 2/2/2025 1:41 PM, -hh wrote:
On 2/2/25 6:46 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/23/2024 7:13 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/23/24 9:20 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/20/2024 9:58 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/20/24 7:05 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/20/2024 4:26 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/19/24 1:57 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/19/24 12:30 PM, Alan wrote:Well, while waiting for my Windows VM to update to version >>>>>>>>>>>> 24H2, I found this:
On 2024-12-19 07:33, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/18/2024 1:11 PM, Alan wrote:Alan chose to ignore your bullshit.
On 2024-12-18 09:17, -hh wrote:
On 12/18/24 10:29 AM, Tom Elam wrote:So where are you going? Or would you rather keep us in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suspense?
In case you missed it there was an earlier post ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, we all saw that troll attempt too.
In the meantime, I've started to book our first trip >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for 2025. Its a bit earlier than what we normally do to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do this, but airfares were favorable. Plus I discovered >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that a FFM account that we'd not been paying attention >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to had built up a healthy balance, so with just ~20% of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its balance, got two RT tickets for just $50.66 (total >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for two).
:-)
Alan once again deflects attention away from the issue. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well, it did make me briefly wonder just how many tickets >>>>>>>>>>>>> to Hawaii I could buy from my main FFM account, if I were >>>>>>>>>>>>> so inclined...
...although since his claim was retrospective, retconning >>>>>>>>>>>>> here needs to include FFMs already spent on destinations >>>>>>>>>>>>> far further afield, such as 120K dropped for a
BusinessFirst upgrade on EWR- HKG: that amount was >>>>>>>>>>>>> probably worth 3 FFM coach tickets to HNL just on its own. >>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://awardwallet.com/blog/new-unpublished-united-
partner- award- chart/>
Seems that routes to Hawaii used to be as cheap as just 10K/ >>>>>>>>>>>> pp, so 9 coach RT's for two could have cost as little as >>>>>>>>>>>> just 360K FFM's.
Overall, the devaluation of FFMs since that era illustrates >>>>>>>>>>>> that all other factors being equal, it makes more sense to >>>>>>>>>>>> use them up fairly proactively instead of hoarding them. >>>>>>>>>>>>
-hh
I think I paid 15-20k pp.
I figured 20K/pp for round trip, so 15K would've needed even >>>>>>>>>> less.
Not to mention about 10 trips to Europe on points too, more >>>>>>>>>>> than 1 first class. Plus quite a few family ski trips.
Probably ~50K for business to EU. Domestic used to be very >>>>>>>>>> cheap, like 5K cheap, but no longer: I ran into a quite
unreasonably high fare on a domestic itinerary last year, such >>>>>>>>>> that I chose to use FFMs instead of paying north of $1K cash >>>>>>>>>> and it was 69,600: an illustration of limited competition in >>>>>>>>>> some markets as well as the systematic FFM devaluation.
This is why I take cash rebates instead of points.
Cashback is certainly more fungible and it doesn't depreciate >>>>>>>>>> as fast, but once again, the benefit is from using accumulated >>>>>>>>>> balances. I'm modestly humored that I'd rediscovered up this >>>>>>>>>> forgotten FFM account; it will probably net somewhere around >>>>>>>>>> five free(ish) flights on its own.
I'm not a fan of leaving money in an account that does not earn >>>>>>>>> anything. There is the phenomenon called price inflation. That >>>>>>>>> is a tax of sorts on cash balances.
There's invariably a price to be paid to maintain some ready
liquidity for an emergency fund, or even just for fiscal
management convenience.
So, my rebates go reduce current card balances a bit, freeing >>>>>>>>> up cash flow elsewhere. At 0.65% of total income not a major >>>>>>>>> factor, but in retirement every little bit helps.
I've never even thought about bothering to track cashback
balances as a percentage of total Net Worth. And since 0.65% of >>>>>>>> a ~$2M Net Worth is $13K - - a pretty high balance for retained >>>>>>>> cashbacks - - this suggests some other interpretation of what
you're saying.
The only cash balances we own other than currency in ourSure, but HYSA rates have been declining over the past few
pockets earns something. The main savings account is 4.5% APR. >>>>>>>>
months in particular; one that we have which was close to 5.5% >>>>>>>> earlier this year is already down to 4.4% and I expect it to
drop further. If one really wants inflation protection without >>>>>>>> Market risks, you're looking more at TIPS and/or I-Bonds, both >>>>>>>> of which have their own pros/cons.
-hh
You go off the rails again. Way off. Rebates are just another
positive cash flow.
Except that they're not a net positive when you paid more than cash. >>>>>>
This is a discussion before we've had before: it revealed that
you've tended to use large chains where credit cards aren't
surcharged, unlike my observation in small businesses where +3%
isn't uncommon.
I never mentioned any net worth contribution.
Correct; I mentioned it to note that the accumulated cashbacks are >>>>>> contextually insignificant vs net worth.
Have you not learned that for retirement you need to build
diversified positive cash flow streams that give you financial
options?
Irrelevant to credit card cash-backs. Why have you not learned
yet to waste your time chasing ankle-biters?
That means among other options reducing fixed expenses like
interest obligations buying assets like EOS (look it up) that pay >>>>>>> cash dividends, and maybe some part-time gig income.
Still irrelevant to credit card cash-backs...
But insofar as EOS, I assume you're referring to "Eaton Vance
Enhance Equity Income Fund II Common Stock", not the crypto coin
of the same name that's down by -85% over the past 5 years.
If one actually has a free cash flow stream tight enough that
monthly dividends are important, then I can see how EOS could be
tempting, particularly with it currently paying a ~7.5% dividend
rate, which is roughly a +3% for its Risk Premia over US10Y, or
+5.4% over the Risk+Inflation Premia of US10YTIP.
Of course, there's also other questions too, such as its tax
implications, for a MUTF, they're likely categorized as Ordinary
Dividends instead of Qualified, plus who knows how much the MUTF
throws on at the end of the year in STCG, LTCG, etc, which may not >>>>>> even show up as real cash. It may be fine in a tax-advantaged
account, but I'd dig a bit further before contemplating it for a
brokerage ... plus for upper marginal income tax brackets, another >>>>>> contender could be the likes of VWAHX. It also pays out monthly, >>>>>> and its lower return is offset by being Federal Income Tax exempt, >>>>>> which can provide an effective returns boost of 24%-32%/etc.
-hh
And you ignore that you might be paying higher prices at those
small local places, even with a negotiated cash discount, than you
might pay at national chains.
Nah, I'm aware that there can be a cost to supporting local small
businesses; the Walmart family already has more than enough money.
Plus, how many purchases do you make that are large enough to even
bother negotiating on price?
Why? Is it hard to see a "3.5% surcharge" sign next to the register? >>>> I'll take a photo of it for you the next time I'm in that shop.
Eaton Vance is correct. I do not own it, that was just an example.
Considering buying some though. I don't do crypto.
And VHAHX was an example too.
Even without my dividends we are more than OK on cash flow. That
extra cash is used for more travel and entertainment. We just
booked a 2 week trip to Italy and Croatia. The dividend fund I do
use pays out a before- tax mix of qualified and ordinary dividends
with a cost-basis annual yield of 7-8%, just like EOS. There are no
capital gains paid out. At the moment if I sell the fund I do own
there would be some LTCG. That's a good thing.
So I checked out VHAHX. Sounded interesting at first. It's
currently trading at $10.66, about where it was in 2005. The
January dividend was $0.034, or about an annual return of 3.8%.
And, trading at it's 2005 NAV. Except for a 2022-centered dip
dividends have not changed materially since 2015. No growth in
dividends either. Even at top tax rates these dividends would not
be materially different from what I'm already getting.
Of course, because its not a fund that's intended to appreciate, but
just reliably pay out tax-free dividends. As such, its rate of
return value depends on what the owner's local marginal tax bracket
rates are for the dividends, not if the fund's trading value might
change.
After-tax, state and federal, based on my 2024 dividend mix my fund
is paying about 5.8% per year. Since in 2020 inception my fund's
NAV is up 15%.
"My fund"? Since you've said it wasn't EOS, its a mystery ...
My current LTCG gain is less, about 5%, mainly because I bought in
starting over 2 years after inception.
Except that in a retirement income scenario, its more buy-&-hold, so
one isn't selling to generate LTCGs. As I noted, having LTCG+STCGs
from a fund is more typical of a MUTF distribution instead of an
ETF. Some such funds may only pay out just 1x/year, such as BMCAX,
not monthly, plus can be equities based instead of Bonds, so run hot
& cold year to year. That can be fine for discretionary spending,
but its far less so for core living expenses.
Before that I owned AT&T but bailed before the 2022 dividend and
resulting stock price collapse. That was a good move.
An individual equity, not a MUTF/ETF, plus its dividends are
quarterly, not monthly. Contemporary insight from Charley Ellis is
that trying to be hands-on vs passive costs the average investor
-200 basis points/year in lower portfolio performance.
Thanks, but I think I'll happily pay the taxes and enjoy the extra
after-tax income for now.
Paying taxes is the "First World" problem to have, although where
that can become a bit of a challenge to accept is when one has a
better than average year and one's non-advantaged accounts'
dividends & gains are a six digit addition onto one's base income.
-hh
Got a better idea than my dividend returns at 7.5-8% with some LTCG?
Let me know.
Strategies depend on many factors besides just return rate.
For example, for the criteria of a reliable income stream, one could
have elected a nonqualified annuity a decade ago, which if one shops
around could have done comparably well - Alan can attest to how I
drove Tom Seim batty by not mentioning the name of the one that I'd
invested in which was offering 8%+ back in 2020 when Fed rates were so
low; IIRC I pushed the button on it at 8.6% (& part of that is tax-
free too).
It's nice to have the LTCG on top of income for the day when it is
cashed out for those who might inherit.
Which may be for you to pay for LTC, and never make it to heirs.
This fund's expenses are 0.35% and it's not managed by my brokerage
firm. It's in my E*Trade account.
0.35% sounds decent; the tax-free VWAHX I'd mentioned is just 0.17%
2% is pretty close for managed stock portfolios that you can buy only
by paying a brokerage firm their fees too.
I'd consider that to be on the high side; think my worst one right now
is 1.38%, in a contrarian fund that's also been tagged for divestment.
The bet is that they will outperform the market, making up for the
costs.
That certainly is the sales pitch for actively managed funds, but the
track record on the industry shows otherwise. Until now I've not
thought about looking at portfolio diversification along the Active-
Passive Management axis...TIL, our split is ~25% Active-/75% Passive.
It's also a good idea to have them in tax-advantaged accounts so that
dividends and CG are not taxed when realized.
Depends; if the dividends are qualified and the CG are LTCG, then the
net tax rate will be lower in a non-advantaged account, since payouts
from a 401k type tax-advantaged get taxed as ordinary income.
Mine were doing a little better than market after expenses until
recently. I'm going to be having a serious talk with my advisor when
I get back from Colorado in early March. The funds he has me in at
the moment have trailed the market, and not by a little bit, over the
last year.
The market has voted with their wallets on the Active-vs-Passive
question: the Market Caps today are roughly equally distributed at
50-50. Charley Ellis recently noted the basic reasons why this is;
BTW, he's got a brand new book out, just hit the press last week (11
Feb 25): "RETHINKING INVESTING: A VERY SHORT GUIDE TO VERY LONG-TERM
INVESTING".
-hh
Good thoughts all. Just to clarify something, in 2003 when I retired,
and none too sure the long term future, I bought 2 qualified annuities.
Still own them but coming up on the decision to take the annuity or not.
If not I'll roll them over.
So here is what I mean about retirement diversity in my case.
Cash, checking and savings
Qualified savings in stocks, thus RMD income
Dividend funds that also use covered options for income
Social security
Pension plans
Zero debt (unless zero interest)
Paid off home
Gig income
Others would say real estate, and that is a very good idea.
Ideally you can build enough retirement income to re-invest a portion to offset inflation. Of the above only Social Security and RMD offer some measure of predictable income growth in my case.
On 2/15/2025 6:47 PM, -hh wrote:
After nearly two weeks of silence, on 2/15/25 10:36, Tom Elam wrote:
On 2/2/2025 1:41 PM, -hh wrote:
On 2/2/25 6:46 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/23/2024 7:13 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/23/24 9:20 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/20/2024 9:58 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/20/24 7:05 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/20/2024 4:26 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/19/24 1:57 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/19/24 12:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-19 07:33, Tom Elam wrote:
On 12/18/2024 1:11 PM, Alan wrote:Alan chose to ignore your bullshit.
On 2024-12-18 09:17, -hh wrote:
On 12/18/24 10:29 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
In case you missed it there was an earlier post ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, we all saw that troll attempt too.
In the meantime, I've started to book our first trip for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2025. Its a bit earlier than what we normally do to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this, but airfares were favorable. Plus I discovered that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a FFM account that we'd not been paying attention to had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> built up a healthy balance, so with just ~20% of its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance, got two RT tickets for just $50.66 (total for two). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So where are you going? Or would you rather keep us in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> suspense?
:-)
Alan once again deflects attention away from the issue. >>>>>>>>>>>>
Well, it did make me briefly wonder just how many tickets to >>>>>>>>>>> Hawaii I could buy from my main FFM account, if I were so >>>>>>>>>>> inclined...
...although since his claim was retrospective, retconning >>>>>>>>>>> here needs to include FFMs already spent on destinations far >>>>>>>>>>> further afield, such as 120K dropped for a BusinessFirst >>>>>>>>>>> upgrade on EWR- HKG: that amount was probably worth 3 FFM >>>>>>>>>>> coach tickets to HNL just on its own.
Well, while waiting for my Windows VM to update to version >>>>>>>>>> 24H2, I found this:
<https://awardwallet.com/blog/new-unpublished-united-partner- >>>>>>>>>> award- chart/>
Seems that routes to Hawaii used to be as cheap as just 10K/ >>>>>>>>>> pp, so 9 coach RT's for two could have cost as little as just >>>>>>>>>> 360K FFM's.
Overall, the devaluation of FFMs since that era illustrates >>>>>>>>>> that all other factors being equal, it makes more sense to use >>>>>>>>>> them up fairly proactively instead of hoarding them.
-hh
I think I paid 15-20k pp.
I figured 20K/pp for round trip, so 15K would've needed even less. >>>>>>>>
Not to mention about 10 trips to Europe on points too, more
than 1 first class. Plus quite a few family ski trips.
Probably ~50K for business to EU. Domestic used to be very
cheap, like 5K cheap, but no longer: I ran into a quite
unreasonably high fare on a domestic itinerary last year, such >>>>>>>> that I chose to use FFMs instead of paying north of $1K cash and >>>>>>>> it was 69,600: an illustration of limited competition in some
markets as well as the systematic FFM devaluation.
This is why I take cash rebates instead of points.
Cashback is certainly more fungible and it doesn't depreciate as >>>>>>>> fast, but once again, the benefit is from using accumulated
balances. I'm modestly humored that I'd rediscovered up this >>>>>>>> forgotten FFM account; it will probably net somewhere around
five free(ish) flights on its own.
I'm not a fan of leaving money in an account that does not earn
anything. There is the phenomenon called price inflation. That is >>>>>>> a tax of sorts on cash balances.
There's invariably a price to be paid to maintain some ready
liquidity for an emergency fund, or even just for fiscal
management convenience.
So, my rebates go reduce current card balances a bit, freeing up >>>>>>> cash flow elsewhere. At 0.65% of total income not a major factor, >>>>>>> but in retirement every little bit helps.
I've never even thought about bothering to track cashback balances >>>>>> as a percentage of total Net Worth. And since 0.65% of a ~$2M Net >>>>>> Worth is $13K - - a pretty high balance for retained cashbacks - - >>>>>> this suggests some other interpretation of what you're saying.
The only cash balances we own other than currency in our pockets >>>>>>> earns something. The main savings account is 4.5% APR.
Sure, but HYSA rates have been declining over the past few months
in particular; one that we have which was close to 5.5% earlier
this year is already down to 4.4% and I expect it to drop further. >>>>>> If one really wants inflation protection without Market risks,
you're looking more at TIPS and/or I-Bonds, both of which have
their own pros/cons.
-hh
You go off the rails again. Way off. Rebates are just another
positive cash flow.
Except that they're not a net positive when you paid more than cash.
This is a discussion before we've had before: it revealed that
you've tended to use large chains where credit cards aren't
surcharged, unlike my observation in small businesses where +3%
isn't uncommon.
I never mentioned any net worth contribution.
Correct; I mentioned it to note that the accumulated cashbacks are
contextually insignificant vs net worth.
Have you not learned that for retirement you need to build
diversified positive cash flow streams that give you financial
options?
Irrelevant to credit card cash-backs. Why have you not learned yet
to waste your time chasing ankle-biters?
That means among other options reducing fixed expenses like
interest obligations buying assets like EOS (look it up) that pay
cash dividends, and maybe some part-time gig income.
Still irrelevant to credit card cash-backs...
But insofar as EOS, I assume you're referring to "Eaton Vance
Enhance Equity Income Fund II Common Stock", not the crypto coin of
the same name that's down by -85% over the past 5 years.
If one actually has a free cash flow stream tight enough that
monthly dividends are important, then I can see how EOS could be
tempting, particularly with it currently paying a ~7.5% dividend
rate, which is roughly a +3% for its Risk Premia over US10Y, or
+5.4% over the Risk+Inflation Premia of US10YTIP.
Of course, there's also other questions too, such as its tax
implications, for a MUTF, they're likely categorized as Ordinary
Dividends instead of Qualified, plus who knows how much the MUTF
throws on at the end of the year in STCG, LTCG, etc, which may not
even show up as real cash. It may be fine in a tax-advantaged
account, but I'd dig a bit further before contemplating it for a
brokerage ... plus for upper marginal income tax brackets, another
contender could be the likes of VWAHX. It also pays out monthly,
and its lower return is offset by being Federal Income Tax exempt,
which can provide an effective returns boost of 24%-32%/etc.
-hh
And you ignore that you might be paying higher prices at those small
local places, even with a negotiated cash discount, than you might
pay at national chains.
Nah, I'm aware that there can be a cost to supporting local small
businesses; the Walmart family already has more than enough money.
Plus, how many purchases do you make that are large enough to even
bother negotiating on price?
Why? Is it hard to see a "3.5% surcharge" sign next to the register?
I'll take a photo of it for you the next time I'm in that shop.
Eaton Vance is correct. I do not own it, that was just an example.
Considering buying some though. I don't do crypto.
And VHAHX was an example too.
Even without my dividends we are more than OK on cash flow. That
extra cash is used for more travel and entertainment. We just booked
a 2 week trip to Italy and Croatia. The dividend fund I do use pays
out a before- tax mix of qualified and ordinary dividends with a
cost-basis annual yield of 7-8%, just like EOS. There are no capital
gains paid out. At the moment if I sell the fund I do own there would
be some LTCG. That's a good thing.
So I checked out VHAHX. Sounded interesting at first. It's currently
trading at $10.66, about where it was in 2005. The January dividend
was $0.034, or about an annual return of 3.8%. And, trading at it's
2005 NAV. Except for a 2022-centered dip dividends have not changed
materially since 2015. No growth in dividends either. Even at top tax
rates these dividends would not be materially different from what I'm
already getting.
Of course, because its not a fund that's intended to appreciate, but
just reliably pay out tax-free dividends. As such, its rate of return
value depends on what the owner's local marginal tax bracket rates are
for the dividends, not if the fund's trading value might change.
After-tax, state and federal, based on my 2024 dividend mix my fund
is paying about 5.8% per year. Since in 2020 inception my fund's NAV
is up 15%.
"My fund"? Since you've said it wasn't EOS, its a mystery ...
My current LTCG gain is less, about 5%, mainly because I bought in
starting over 2 years after inception.
Except that in a retirement income scenario, its more buy-&-hold, so
one isn't selling to generate LTCGs. As I noted, having LTCG+STCGs
from a fund is more typical of a MUTF distribution instead of an ETF.
Some such funds may only pay out just 1x/year, such as BMCAX, not
monthly, plus can be equities based instead of Bonds, so run hot &
cold year to year. That can be fine for discretionary spending, but
its far less so for core living expenses.
Before that I owned AT&T but bailed before the 2022 dividend and
resulting stock price collapse. That was a good move.
An individual equity, not a MUTF/ETF, plus its dividends are
quarterly, not monthly. Contemporary insight from Charley Ellis is
that trying to be hands-on vs passive costs the average investor -200
basis points/year in lower portfolio performance.
Thanks, but I think I'll happily pay the taxes and enjoy the extra
after-tax income for now.
Paying taxes is the "First World" problem to have, although where that
can become a bit of a challenge to accept is when one has a better
than average year and one's non-advantaged accounts' dividends & gains
are a six digit addition onto one's base income.
-hh
Got a better idea than my dividend returns at 7.5-8% with some LTCG? Let
me know.
It's nice to have the LTCG on top of income for the day when it
is cashed out for those who might inherit.
This fund's expenses are 0.35% and it's not managed by my brokerage firm. It's in my E*Trade account.
2% is pretty close for managed stock portfolios that you can buy only by paying a brokerage firm their fees too.
The bet is that they will outperform the market, making up for the costs.
It's also a good idea to
have them in tax-advantaged accounts so that dividends and CG are not
taxed when realized.
Mine were doing a little better than market after
expenses until recently. I'm going to be having a serious talk with my advisor when I get back from Colorado in early March. The funds he has
me in at the moment have trailed the market, and not by a little bit,
over the last year.