| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 42 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 02:06:42 |
| Calls: | 220 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 824 |
| Messages: | 121,544 |
| Posted today: | 6 |
On Tue, 2024-10-29 at 00:08 +0000, Chris Townley wrote:
On 28/10/2024 23:17, Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
I only wish I could indulge it more often. But the hobbyist
programme
of old is dead.
Have you thought of applying for the Ambassador role?
I did. They acknowledged it, then nothing else happened.
On 10/28/2024 5:43 PM, Chris Townley wrote:
On 28/10/2024 20:09, Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
On Mon, 2024-10-28 at 15:08 -0400, Arne Vajh°j wrote:
lots
of educational institutions (out of 9 big higher education
institutions, then 3 were VMS shops, 3 used VMS some places
and only 3 did not use VMS).
I developed an addiction to VMS at university during the 90s!
You obviously went to a good University!
VMS was pretty common back then.
Where I went:
* VMS Fortran for programming intro -> VMS Pascal for programming
* SAS on VMS for statistics
* Rdb for database
* DECtext for word processing -> WP 4.x on VMS for word processing
* S2020 for spreadsheet
On 2024-10-28, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
On 10/28/2024 5:43 PM, Chris Townley wrote:
On 28/10/2024 20:09, Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
On Mon, 2024-10-28 at 15:08 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
lots
of educational institutions (out of 9 big higher education
institutions, then 3 were VMS shops, 3 used VMS some places
and only 3 did not use VMS).
I developed an addiction to VMS at university during the 90s!
You obviously went to a good University!
VMS was pretty common back then.
Where I went:
* VMS Fortran for programming intro -> VMS Pascal for programming
* SAS on VMS for statistics
* Rdb for database
* DECtext for word processing -> WP 4.x on VMS for word processing
The last WP available for VMS was WP 5.{something}.
I still miss not
having directly editable reveal codes as a standard feature in "modern"
word processors.
* S2020 for spreadsheet
Never heard of that one, but Lotus 1-2-3 was available for VMS.
On 2024-10-28, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
On 10/28/2024 5:43 PM, Chris Townley wrote:
On 28/10/2024 20:09, Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
On Mon, 2024-10-28 at 15:08 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
lots
of educational institutions (out of 9 big higher education
institutions, then 3 were VMS shops, 3 used VMS some places
and only 3 did not use VMS).
I developed an addiction to VMS at university during the 90s!
You obviously went to a good University!
VMS was pretty common back then.
Where I went:
* VMS Fortran for programming intro -> VMS Pascal for programming
* SAS on VMS for statistics
* Rdb for database
* DECtext for word processing -> WP 4.x on VMS for word processing
The last WP available for VMS was WP 5.{something}. I still miss not
having directly editable reveal codes as a standard feature in "modern"
word processors.
* S2020 for spreadsheet
Never heard of that one, but Lotus 1-2-3 was available for VMS.
Simon.
[“Reveal codes” is] difficult to do sensibly. Often the codes are inherited through cascading styles, or by marking blocks of text, so
there isn't a direct mapping between the formatting of the display, and
the embedded charaters..
Have you thought of applying for the Ambassador role?
I did. They acknowledged it, then nothing else happened.
Did you get an email titled "Welcome to the OpenVMS Ambassador's
Program"? If so, there was a link in it that takes you to a page
where you E-Sign an agreement. If that doesn't get signed then it
stalls. If you didn't get that email (and it's not in SPAM or such)
then VSI is behind. again.
On 10/29/2024 9:11 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
I still miss not
having directly editable reveal codes as a standard feature in "modern"
word processors.
You don't feel tempted to edit the XML of today's word processors?
:-) :-) :-)
On 10/29/24 8:23 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
On 10/29/2024 9:11 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
I still miss not
having directly editable reveal codes as a standard feature in "modern"
word processors.
You don't feel tempted to edit the XML of today's word processors?
:-) :-) :-)
No one would willingly look at docx. But you can get something very
much like the old WordPerfect experience using a modern WYSIWIG XML
editor and a reasonable schema. See:
https://www.oxygenxml.com/xml_editor/WYSIWYG_Editors.html
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 14:15:32 +0000, David Wade wrote:
[“Reveal codes” is] difficult to do sensibly. Often the codes are
inherited through cascading styles, or by marking blocks of text, so
there isn't a direct mapping between the formatting of the display, and
the embedded charaters..
The only reason WordPerfect needed that feature was because it used
embedded formatting codes, which other word processors do not. So they
have no “codes” to “reveal”.
I believe ODF is a lot more human friendly than OOXML.
On 10/29/2024 4:42 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 14:15:32 +0000, David Wade wrote:
[“Reveal codes” is] difficult to do sensibly. Often the codes are
inherited through cascading styles, or by marking blocks of text, so
there isn't a direct mapping between the formatting of the display,
and the embedded charaters..
The only reason WordPerfect needed that feature was because it used
embedded formatting codes, which other word processors do not. So they
have no “codes” to “reveal”.
All word processors embed formatting codes.
On 10/29/2024 9:11 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
The last WP available for VMS was WP 5.{something}.
Yes. I even think we did update even though when that happened
people were in the process of moving to DOS.
DEC's own word processor was WPS. Under ALLIN1 or standalone.
I still miss not
having directly editable reveal codes as a standard feature in "modern"
word processors.
You don't feel tempted to edit the XML of today's word processors?
:-) :-) :-)
Yes - I liked that feature as well.
* S2020 for spreadsheet
Never heard of that one, but Lotus 1-2-3 was available for VMS.
I think it is this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20/20_(spreadsheet_software)
On 2024-10-25, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
On 10/25/2024 2:29 PM, Robert A. Brooks wrote:
On 10/25/2024 8:05 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
Has anything of special interest been revealed at the Bootcamp ?
There will be a boot camp in Malmo, Sweden next May, and another boot
camp next year in the US around this same time next year.
Thanks.
Curious.
Why the "wrong" side of Øresund?
Because there are still VMS users in Sweden and not in Denmark?
(no practical impact - from Copenhagen to Malmö is just 38 minutes
by train - and it is just 23 minutes from the airport to Malmö
compared to the 15 minutes to Copenhagen)
I am curious why VSI are so heavily focused on Sweden to the exclusion
of other European countries.
I know of the Swedish origins of VSI's backer, but even so and with all
other things being equal, I would have expected it to be held in a more central European country such as Germany or Austria in order to make
it easier for much more of Europe to attend.
Is the remaining European VMS userbase really so heavily weighted to a
single smaller (by population) Northern European country instead of being spread out more evenly across Europe ?
$ set response/mode=good_natured
At least they didn't decide to hold it in Bodø (or whatever the Swedish version of that is). :-)
Simon.
France has better food and wine, compared to Swedish meatballs, and overpriced beer.
On 2024-10-25, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
Curious.
Why the "wrong" side of Øresund?
Because there are still VMS users in Sweden and not in Denmark?
I am curious why VSI are so heavily focused on Sweden to the exclusion
of other European countries.
I fear the reasons to have the bootcamp in Malm÷ are a lot more
mundane than some of the theories I came across here.
Simon Clubley wrote:
On 2024-10-25, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
Curious.
Why the "wrong" side of Øresund?
Because there are still VMS users in Sweden and not in Denmark?
I am curious why VSI are so heavily focused on Sweden to the exclusion
of other European countries.
It's certainly a curious discussion that has spun up here :-)
I fear the reasons to have the bootcamp in Malmö are a lot more mundane
than some of the theories I came across here.
We just organized the first VMS bootcamp since 2017 in the US. For some reasons, we wanted it to be close to our office in Boston:
- easy access for our engineers to deliver presentations on various topics;
- easy access for our office staff who did a lot of the organizing, not
just during the bootcamp, but also in the weeks leading up to it for preparations.
These same considerations play a role as we prepare for the first ever
VMS bootcamp in Europe. While we have people all over Europe (including Germany, France, and yours truly in the Netherlands), we have offices
with a VMS engineering team in three places: Copenhagen (Denmark),
Yerevan (Armenia) and Athens (Greece). The team we have in Greece is
just getting started, and Yerevan is a little bit more difficult to get
to (fewer flights, often at inconvenient times).
That leaves Copenhagen. Unfortunately, organizing a conference in Copenhagen would be very expensive, both for us and for attendees.
Doing it in Malmö, we can probably cut the cost in half for both, and as Arne said, getting there from the airport takes only a few minutes longer.
That's about as poetic as I can make it :-)
It's unfashionable to do things for simple, sensible and pragmatic
reasons. Please carry on operating that way - it's refreshing in a world driven by popular delusion.
Perhaps they are avoiding France, due to Gerard "Asterix" Calliet, and his band of fiesty, plucky, gallant, Gauls, with gonadic gumption, in the VMSGenerations group, whom have been delivering a Grandparental Masterclass in Oeuf Husbandry, for going ona decade, in terms of industry self-organisation, and representation, to the VMS eco-system, generally, and in particular to the VMS anglosphere - providing leadership, and North Star navigation, on preferable outcomes for both the VMS eco-system, and
The sleek, lazy, domesticated, Sverige Vikings, are, perhaps, easier to wrangle.
France has better food and wine, compared to Swedish meatballs, and overpriced beer.
So the short answer is that the bootcamp is on the "wrong" side of
╪resund because the hotel prices in Copenhagen are legal highway
robbery?
On 2024-11-02, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:on a decade, in terms of industry self-organisation, and representation, to the VMS eco-system, generally, and in particular to the VMS anglosphere - providing leadership, and North Star navigation, on preferable outcomes for both the VMS eco-system, and
Perhaps they are avoiding France, due to Gerard "Asterix" Calliet, and his band of fiesty, plucky, gallant, Gauls, with gonadic gumption, in the VMSGenerations group, whom have been delivering a Grandparental Masterclass in Oeuf Husbandry, for going
$ set response/mode=very_good_natured
You are Kamala Harris and I claim my 5 pounds. :-)
IOW, nice word salad. I will be worried if the day comes when I can understand the above. :-)
On 2024-11-03, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
So the short answer is that the bootcamp is on the "wrong" side of
Øresund because the hotel prices in Copenhagen are legal highway
robbery?
Interesting. I knew it wasn't cheap, but I didn't realise Copenhagen
was so expensive.
How does it compare to, say, Zürich ?
On 11/4/2024 8:19 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
On 2024-11-03, Arne Vajh°j <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
So the short answer is that the bootcamp is on the "wrong" side of
╪resund because the hotel prices in Copenhagen are legal highway
robbery?
Interesting. I knew it wasn't cheap, but I didn't realise Copenhagen
was so expensive.
How does it compare to, say, Zⁿrich ?
I just knew that Copenhagen was expensive. I have never stayed
in Zurich.
But I tried looking up a random hotel chain (Radisson) for a
random day (December 8th) and I saw:
Zurich 93 USD
Malm÷ 95 USD
London (Heathrow) 112 USD
Copenhagen (Amager) 117 USD
Copenhagen (Center) 197 USD
London (Leicester Sq) 254 USD
London (Mercer St) 262 USD