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On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 04:39:30 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The compilers offered by IBM/(M$) were very good. We kinda though of
M$ as a hero company back then,
all the good tools. Then .........
PCs were thought of as an IBM product. It wasn't until Windows that they
sort of became associated with M$ even if MS's forays into hardware didn't always turn out well.
IBM seems to be shuffling out the door. They sold their fabs to Global and are 'rebalancing'.
https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/27/ibm_cuts_jobs_in_us/
Funny how IBM can fire 12,000 people and it gets a brief headline on the
tech sites. Fire 12,000 government drones and it's the end of the world.
...
I still see debate over whether the 6502 was 'better'
than the 6809. The 6502 was envisioned as the 'improved'
6809 by the Motorola defectors - and in some ways was.
However they also left out some registers that were
convenient to compiler writers. So, no verdict.
On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 04:21:51 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Haven't had an eprom programmer in a long time alas ...
It should be easy to build one with a Pico or Arduino. I built one using
the parallel port on my Osborne 1 CP/M box. It was very disappointing when the i386 came out and made tweaking the hardware a PITA.
At THIS point, I'd rather fool with a Z80/clone board, something that
will run CP/M-80. Alas even a floppy interface - or FDDs for that
matter - are getting hard to come by. Boards may have to have a trick
for using thumb drives and PRETENDING they're floppies .... not
strictly purist, but, these days, you've gotta use what you've gotta
use. There isn't a huge retro market, the world is orientated for the
newest/latest whiz-bang stuff.
I'd go that way too since the Z80 was what I worked with, along with
8080s, 8085s and Intel uCs. 6502s and 680Xs seemed a little strange to me.
And just THIS week ... if in the USA you may not want to buy anything
that comes from China. Expect a "Bolivian re-sell/brand market" soon,
but not THIS week.
That will be interesting. I read an article last week that Raspberries are not affected by the tariffs. However I believe Espressif will be. The
ESP32 has been very popular since it has WiFi and BLE out of the box, is cheap, and performs well. Elegoo is also Chinese and is a source of
Arduino clones. SunFounder is also Chinese. Those two are hobbyist
oriented but the ESP32 is used in a lot of commercial applications.
I don't know about STMicro. This may do good things for Microchip.
They may be communists but they're no dummies; Vietnam is talking about dropping all tariffs on US goods.
On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 04:39:30 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The compilers offered by IBM/(M$) were very good. We kinda though of
M$ as a hero company back then,
all the good tools. Then .........
PCs were thought of as an IBM product. It wasn't until Windows that they
sort of became associated with M$ even if MS's forays into hardware didn't always turn out well.
IBM seems to be shuffling out the door. They sold their fabs to Global and are 'rebalancing'.
https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/27/ibm_cuts_jobs_in_us/
Funny how IBM can fire 12,000 people and it gets a brief headline on the
tech sites. Fire 12,000 government drones and it's the end of the world.
On 4/5/25 4:20 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 04:39:30 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The compilers offered by IBM/(M$) were very good. We kinda though of >>> M$ as a hero company back then,
all the good tools. Then .........
PCs were thought of as an IBM product. It wasn't until Windows that they
sort of became associated with M$ even if MS's forays into hardware
didn't
always turn out well.
IBM seems to be shuffling out the door. They sold their fabs to Global
and
are 'rebalancing'.
https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/27/ibm_cuts_jobs_in_us/
Funny how IBM can fire 12,000 people and it gets a brief headline on the
tech sites. Fire 12,000 government drones and it's the end of the world.
IBM has proven itself to be resilient - shifting
focus back and forth depending on the current global
needs. If it fires 12,000 today it MAY hire 20,000
a few years from now to exploit some new markets.
As for the govt drones (half of which seem to be
'probationary' employees yet getting all the perks)
well, big/deep state is a POWER BASE and TAPPABLE
CASH FLOW for some of the people who are REALLY in
charge, so they DO freak about that kind of stuff
IMHO getting, or
faking, the FDDs would be a little challenging.
On 2025-04-05, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
...
I still see debate over whether the 6502 was 'better'
than the 6809. The 6502 was envisioned as the 'improved'
6809 by the Motorola defectors - and in some ways was.
However they also left out some registers that were
convenient to compiler writers. So, no verdict.
I don't have chapter and verse to quote, but back in the day I
was told that the original design of the 6502 _WAS_ superior to
the 6809, but Motorola sued on a basis of IP theft or similar,
and the 6502 was dumbed down by removing registers and/or
crippling the indexing modes. One of the first things that
struck me about the 6502's indexing and other addressing modes
was that it looked/smelled crippled.
Around 1980 or so, I had a short assembly program for 6502. It
may have been a college assignment. Just for fun, I rewrote it
for 6800 and then for 6809. Then, I counted the number of
instructions in all three versions. The 6800 version used 2/3
the number of instructions as the 6502 version. The 6809 version
used half of the instructions of the 6502 version.
As for the govt drones (half of which seem to be
'probationary' employees yet getting all the perks)
well, big/deep state is a POWER BASE and TAPPABLE
CASH FLOW for some of the people who are REALLY in
charge, so they DO freak about that kind of stuff.
Around 1980 or so, I had a short assembly program for 6502. It may have
been a college assignment. Just for fun, I rewrote it for 6800 and then
for 6809. Then, I counted the number of instructions in all three
versions. The 6800 version used 2/3 the number of instructions as the
6502 version. The 6809 version used half of the instructions of the
6502 version.
On 05/04/2025 21:20, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 04:39:30 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The compilers offered by IBM/(M$) were very good. We kinda though
of M$ as a hero company back then,
all the good tools. Then .........
PCs were thought of as an IBM product. It wasn't until Windows that
they sort of became associated with M$ even if MS's forays into
hardware didn't always turn out well.
IBM seems to be shuffling out the door. They sold their fabs to Global
and are 'rebalancing'.
https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/27/ibm_cuts_jobs_in_us/
Funny how IBM can fire 12,000 people and it gets a brief headline on
the tech sites. Fire 12,000 government drones and it's the end of the
world.
I thought it was nearer 12 million...
It simply means they have been on the job for less than one year, and
what is different for 'probationary' employess is they don't have all of
the usual protections from arbitrary and capricious firings as those who
have been on the job for more than one year. The purpose is to give the
govt a one year window to see if the employee actually can do the job,
and allow an easier time of laying them off if it turns out they can't
do the job.
I still see debate over whether the 6502 was 'better' than the 6809.
The 6502 was envisioned as the 'improved'
6809 by the Motorola defectors - and in some ways was. However they
also left out some registers that were convenient to compiler
writers. So, no verdict.
On 2025-04-05, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
...
I still see debate over whether the 6502 was 'better'
than the 6809. The 6502 was envisioned as the 'improved'
6809 by the Motorola defectors - and in some ways was.
However they also left out some registers that were
convenient to compiler writers. So, no verdict.
I don't have chapter and verse to quote, but back in the day I
was told that the original design of the 6502 _WAS_ superior to
the 6809, but Motorola sued on a basis of IP theft or similar,
and the 6502 was dumbed down by removing registers and/or
crippling the indexing modes. One of the first things that
struck me about the 6502's indexing and other addressing modes
was that it looked/smelled crippled.
Around 1980 or so, I had a short assembly program for 6502. It
may have been a college assignment. Just for fun, I rewrote it
for 6800 and then for 6809. Then, I counted the number of
instructions in all three versions. The 6800 version used 2/3
the number of instructions as the 6502 version. The 6809 version
used half of the instructions of the 6502 version.
On 05/04/2025 21:20, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 04:39:30 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The compilers offered by IBM/(M$) were very good. We kinda though of >>> M$ as a hero company back then,
all the good tools. Then .........
PCs were thought of as an IBM product. It wasn't until Windows that they
sort of became associated with M$ even if MS's forays into hardware
didn't
always turn out well.
IBM seems to be shuffling out the door. They sold their fabs to Global
and
are 'rebalancing'.
https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/27/ibm_cuts_jobs_in_us/
Funny how IBM can fire 12,000 people and it gets a brief headline on the
tech sites. Fire 12,000 government drones and it's the end of the world.
I thought it was nearer 12 million...
On 05/04/2025 23:46, c186282 wrote:
On 4/5/25 4:20 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 04:39:30 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The compilers offered by IBM/(M$) were very good. We kinda
though of
M$ as a hero company back then,
all the good tools. Then .........
PCs were thought of as an IBM product. It wasn't until Windows that they >>> sort of became associated with M$ even if MS's forays into hardware
didn't
always turn out well.
IBM seems to be shuffling out the door. They sold their fabs to
Global and
are 'rebalancing'.
https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/27/ibm_cuts_jobs_in_us/
Funny how IBM can fire 12,000 people and it gets a brief headline on the >>> tech sites. Fire 12,000 government drones and it's the end of the world.
IBM has proven itself to be resilient - shifting
focus back and forth depending on the current global
needs. If it fires 12,000 today it MAY hire 20,000
a few years from now to exploit some new markets.
As for the govt drones (half of which seem to be
'probationary' employees yet getting all the perks)
well, big/deep state is a POWER BASE and TAPPABLE
CASH FLOW for some of the people who are REALLY in
charge, so they DO freak about that kind of stuff
How much did the Lone Skunk get in Subsidies eh?
On 06/04/2025 01:14, Robert Riches wrote:
On 2025-04-05, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:...but the 6502 ran faster
...
I still see debate over whether the 6502 was 'better'
than the 6809. The 6502 was envisioned as the 'improved'
6809 by the Motorola defectors - and in some ways was.
However they also left out some registers that were
convenient to compiler writers. So, no verdict.
I don't have chapter and verse to quote, but back in the day I
was told that the original design of the 6502 _WAS_ superior to
the 6809, but Motorola sued on a basis of IP theft or similar,
and the 6502 was dumbed down by removing registers and/or
crippling the indexing modes. One of the first things that
struck me about the 6502's indexing and other addressing modes
was that it looked/smelled crippled.
Around 1980 or so, I had a short assembly program for 6502. It
may have been a college assignment. Just for fun, I rewrote it
for 6800 and then for 6809. Then, I counted the number of
instructions in all three versions. The 6800 version used 2/3
the number of instructions as the 6502 version. The 6809 version
used half of the instructions of the 6502 version.
On 06/04/2025 00:47, c186282 wrote:
IMHO getting, or
faking, the FDDs would be a little challenging.
I wrote disk drivers a long time ago, for an 8" floppy...
You could take a Pi Pico make it a Z80 running CP/M with a USB keyboard,
and stuff the flash with all the CP/M software you would ever need.
Could even bit bang a parallel port...
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
As for the govt drones (half of which seem to be
'probationary' employees yet getting all the perks)
Do note that in the US federal govt, the meaning of a "probationary
employee" is very different from the normal private sector usage (it is unfortunate the statue writers chose 'probationary' for their word, but
here we are).
It simply means they have been on the job for less than one year, and
what is different for 'probationary' employess is they don't have all
of the usual protections from arbitrary and capricious firings as those
who have been on the job for more than one year. The purpose is to
give the govt a one year window to see if the employee actually can do
the job, and allow an easier time of laying them off if it turns out
they can't do the job.
well, big/deep state is a POWER BASE and TAPPABLE
CASH FLOW for some of the people who are REALLY in
charge, so they DO freak about that kind of stuff.
The federal employees never were the "deep state".
If indeed there
ever was a "deep state" it was the political appointed cabinet heads.
The employees just do what they are told by their managers, within the
bounds of whatever laws congress enacted that created their given
areas. If a deep state exists, it is the political appointees who are
part of it, not the day to day employees that just keep things running
day to day.
On 6 Apr 2025 00:14:27 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:
Around 1980 or so, I had a short assembly program for 6502. It may have
been a college assignment. Just for fun, I rewrote it for 6800 and then
for 6809. Then, I counted the number of instructions in all three
versions. The 6800 version used 2/3 the number of instructions as the
6502 version. The 6809 version used half of the instructions of the
6502 version.
An early RISC processor! We doan need all those steenking instructions!
Then the wonderful 68000s ... but they could never
make enough, fast enough, cheap enough ......
On Sun, 6 Apr 2025 01:08:45 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
It simply means they have been on the job for less than one year, and
what is different for 'probationary' employess is they don't have all of
the usual protections from arbitrary and capricious firings as those who
have been on the job for more than one year. The purpose is to give the
govt a one year window to see if the employee actually can do the job,
and allow an easier time of laying them off if it turns out they can't
do the job.
I don't know if it is still the case but that was Boeing's model in the
'50s. Hire 100 engineers and fire 97 of them in the first year. My brother was one of the 3 lucky ones.
On 2025-04-06, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
Then the wonderful 68000s ... but they could never make enough, fast
enough, cheap enough ......
Or soon enough. Which once again proved that it's better to be first
than to be best.
"It's a good thing the iAPX 432 never caught on. Otherwise some truly horrible Intel architecture might have taken over the world."
I remember sending a 50K file to someone at 300 baud.
It took half an hour. How times have changed...
On 2025-04-06, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
The only place I see 8" floppies now is on eBay.
The drive UNITS ... forget it. I remember Shugart
drives ... you put in the disk and it went "clunk"
as you locked down the door :-)
I remember them going "clunk" each time the heads loaded.
There was a diskette duplicator program that would read
a sector, write a sector, one sector at a time. Clunk,
clunk, clunk... It took *forever*, and put a lot of wear
and tear on the drives. I wrote a version that would read
an entire track at a time, step to the next track, start
reading at the sector that was just coming under the head,
and continue until memory was full, then dump it all out
to the destination drive the same way. It would duplicate
a single-sided 8-inch disk in 36 seconds.
Odd historical note ... AC Clarke wrote the "2010"
script on a K2, sent it in from Sri Lanka by
acoustic modem (300 baud max fer sure) :-)
I remember sending a 50K file to someone at 300 baud.
It took half an hour. How times have changed...
On 4/5/25 9:08 PM, Rich wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
As for the govt drones (half of which seem to be 'probationary'
employees yet getting all the perks)
Do note that in the US federal govt, the meaning of a "probationary
employee" is very different from the normal private sector usage (it
is unfortunate the statue writers chose 'probationary' for their
word, but here we are).
Well ... HERE WE ARE .......
Politics is about *appearances* more than any realities.
If I hear "probationary" I think some Gen-Z/A2 dink kinda part-time
drones who don't deserve any consideration.
It simply means they have been on the job for less than one year,
and what is different for 'probationary' employess is they don't
have all of the usual protections from arbitrary and capricious
firings as those who have been on the job for more than one year.
The purpose is to give the govt a one year window to see if the
employee actually can do the job, and allow an easier time of laying
them off if it turns out they can't do the job.
Um, WHY so many <1yr people ??? Sounds like a Joe
initiative to reinforce the bureaucracy/deep-state.
So, FIRE them all !
well, big/deep state is a POWER BASE and TAPPABLE
CASH FLOW for some of the people who are REALLY in
charge, so they DO freak about that kind of stuff.
The federal employees never were the "deep state".
Oh, please !!!
If not 'part', then 'pawns'.
On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 19:47:22 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I still see debate over whether the 6502 was 'better' than the 6809.
The 6502 was envisioned as the 'improved'
6809 by the Motorola defectors - and in some ways was. However they
also left out some registers that were convenient to compiler
writers. So, no verdict.
One thing cannot be debated -- the 6502 was a hell of a lot cheaper than
the 6800. Peddle was working at Motorola when he first tried designing a processor that wasn't a pricey as a 6800. Motorola said 'Not interested!'.
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 4/5/25 9:08 PM, Rich wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
As for the govt drones (half of which seem to be 'probationary'
employees yet getting all the perks)
Do note that in the US federal govt, the meaning of a "probationary
employee" is very different from the normal private sector usage (it
is unfortunate the statue writers chose 'probationary' for their
word, but here we are).
Well ... HERE WE ARE .......
Politics is about *appearances* more than any realities.
If I hear "probationary" I think some Gen-Z/A2 dink kinda part-time
drones who don't deserve any consideration.
Yes, and that's probably what the rest of the country thinks, since
unless they've been a govt. employee at some point, they would never
have had a chance to learn the "government" meaning. As I said, it is unfortunate the statute writers chose the word "probationary", but they
did, so it is the word used.
It simply means they have been on the job for less than one year,
and what is different for 'probationary' employess is they don't
have all of the usual protections from arbitrary and capricious
firings as those who have been on the job for more than one year.
The purpose is to give the govt a one year window to see if the
employee actually can do the job, and allow an easier time of laying
them off if it turns out they can't do the job.
Um, WHY so many <1yr people ??? Sounds like a Joe
initiative to reinforce the bureaucracy/deep-state.
Most realistic reason, given the number of people employed by the fed:
there is a constant churn of old workers retiring (or dying) off and
others who quit to go elsewhere with the accompanyng new hires being
hired to replace those that have left. Just that, given size size of
the fed, without any "joe initiatives" would produce a quite large
count of folks in "probationary" status, more than enough for the
numbers being quoted in the press. Another quirk of the govt.
"probationary" status is if one changes jobs within the govt, one
becomes "probationary" for the first year of the new job. So a portion
of the "probationary" workers have more than a year total govt
experience, but are "probationary" because they switched jobs within
the fed.
So, FIRE them all !
And with that, the workers that make sure your prescription drugs won't accidentally poison you, or those that make sure your steak does not
include a deadly does of salmonella, or those that make sure you get
your social security check (if one is drawing one), or those who make
sure one's medicare payments go through for medical services (for those
old enough to be forced to be on medicare), or the forest service
workers rescuing hikers who get themselves hopelessly lost in the
woods, or a whole host of other services that many have no idea is
being provided by the federal workforce.
well, big/deep state is a POWER BASE and TAPPABLE
CASH FLOW for some of the people who are REALLY in
charge, so they DO freak about that kind of stuff.
The federal employees never were the "deep state".
Oh, please !!!
If not 'part', then 'pawns'.
One could argue 'pawns' convincingly. And as well, no 'pawn' (on a chessboard or in the fed) is "calling the shots" either. The "deep
state" would be the ones "calling the shots" rather than the lowly
pieces on the board that are being moved about by the "shot caller".
Right now, the 'pawns' are being fired, while the 'chess players'
remain around. That's hardly clearing the "deep state", to leave
around the ones that were calling the shots.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 19:47:22 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I still see debate over whether the 6502 was 'better' than the 6809. >>> The 6502 was envisioned as the 'improved'
6809 by the Motorola defectors - and in some ways was. However they
also left out some registers that were convenient to compiler
writers. So, no verdict.
One thing cannot be debated -- the 6502 was a hell of a lot cheaper than
the 6800. Peddle was working at Motorola when he first tried designing a
processor that wasn't a pricey as a 6800. Motorola said 'Not interested!'.
That was the big draw to the 6502. MOS Tech had a processor that sold
for $25 when the Moto competitors were selling for $275 (or some such
large markup).
Yeah, compared to the 6800 or 6809 a lot was lost to hit the $25
target. But for scrappy startups looking to do more with less, it
worked just as well as the pricer options.
My regret - Motorola and derivs - they were SO damned good back in
the day. What the fuck HAPPENED ??? "Management" most likely
.........
I don't have chapter and verse to quote, but back in the day I was told
that the original design of the 6502 _WAS_ superior to the 6809, but
Motorola sued on a basis of IP theft or similar, and the 6502 was dumbed
down by removing registers and/or crippling the indexing modes.
On 6 Apr 2025 00:14:27 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:
I don't have chapter and verse to quote, but back in the day I was told
that the original design of the 6502 _WAS_ superior to the 6809, but
Motorola sued on a basis of IP theft or similar, and the 6502 was dumbed
down by removing registers and/or crippling the indexing modes.
No, that would have been the Motorola 6800. The 6809 came somewhat later.
The main rivalry in the 8-bit world was between the 6502 and the Z80. 6502 fans liked to tout the fact that their fave CPU had so many instructions
that would execute in one clock cycle ... until you looked closer and discovered that it was restricting itself to 8-bit address arithmetic,
where the Z80 was supporting full 16-bit addresses.
Right now, the 'pawns' are being fired, while the 'chess players'
remain around. That's hardly clearing the "deep state", to leave
around the ones that were calling the shots.
Some like to think Trump and friends don't understand
all this - but it's self-delusion. Trump is playing
HARD, real, politics here. He was fucked-over by the
WokieComs ... NOW he's gonna destroy them.
On 07/04/2025 04:09, Rich wrote:
Right now, the 'pawns' are being fired, while the 'chess players'
remain around. That's hardly clearing the "deep state", to leave
around the ones that were calling the shots.
Oh the shot callers are in the firing line as well.
Bit it is as stupid as ploughing in a whole crop in order to kill the weeds.
On 4/7/25 7:02 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/04/2025 04:09, Rich wrote:
Right now, the 'pawns' are being fired, while the 'chess players'
remain around. That's hardly clearing the "deep state", to leave
around the ones that were calling the shots.
Oh the shot callers are in the firing line as well.
Bit it is as stupid as ploughing in a whole crop in order to kill the
weeds.
But, given how Big G is structured, is there
much of a CHOICE ?
In any case, the pawns, the shields, are being
eliminated. The important pieces are next. The
WokieComs spent decades stuffing govt positions
with their supplicants, and they have to GO.
That was the WokieCom IDEA ... put their people
into a structure where it was "impossible" to
ever get rid of them.
Not.
On 07/04/2025 12:13, c186282 wrote:
On 4/7/25 7:02 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:If a field is more weeds than crop then cost benefit says plough it all up. But if it isn't, then it doesn't.
On 07/04/2025 04:09, Rich wrote:
Right now, the 'pawns' are being fired, while the 'chess players'
remain around. That's hardly clearing the "deep state", to leave
around the ones that were calling the shots.
Oh the shot callers are in the firing line as well.
Bit it is as stupid as ploughing in a whole crop in order to kill
the weeds.
But, given how Big G is structured, is there
much of a CHOICE ?
In any case, the pawns, the shields, are being
eliminated. The important pieces are next. The
WokieComs spent decades stuffing govt positions
with their supplicants, and they have to GO.
That was the WokieCom IDEA ... put their people
into a structure where it was "impossible" to
ever get rid of them.
Not.
Trouble is Cost benefit is not something Trump or any of his acolytes understand. They think in binary terms.
Trump Good, state Bad.
I hear Elon is now pissed off at Trumps 'big beautiful tariffs' that
have crashed his companies stock price - and hence his personal wealth -
by at least 50%.
I suppose it is a methodology that stupid people can employ effectively. Smash everything and see what you miss, and then spend someone else's
money to put it back.
On 4/7/25 7:26 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/04/2025 12:13, c186282 wrote:
On 4/7/25 7:02 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:If a field is more weeds than crop then cost benefit says plough it
On 07/04/2025 04:09, Rich wrote:
Right now, the 'pawns' are being fired, while the 'chess players'
remain around. That's hardly clearing the "deep state", to leave
around the ones that were calling the shots.
Oh the shot callers are in the firing line as well.
Bit it is as stupid as ploughing in a whole crop in order to kill
the weeds.
But, given how Big G is structured, is there
much of a CHOICE ?
In any case, the pawns, the shields, are being
eliminated. The important pieces are next. The
WokieComs spent decades stuffing govt positions
with their supplicants, and they have to GO.
That was the WokieCom IDEA ... put their people
into a structure where it was "impossible" to
ever get rid of them.
Not.
all up.
But if it isn't, then it doesn't.
Hard to tell the crop from the crabgrass unfortunately.
Trouble is Cost benefit is not something Trump or any of his acolytes
understand. They think in binary terms.
Trump Good, state Bad.
Trump Good ! State Bad !
Trump Good ! State Bad !
Trump Good ! State Bad !
Sorry, haven't been hearing many chanting that ...
I hear Elon is now pissed off at Trumps 'big beautiful tariffs' that
have crashed his companies stock price - and hence his personal wealth
- by at least 50%.
Aww ... he's still richer than shit ......
I suppose it is a methodology that stupid people can employ
effectively. Smash everything and see what you miss, and then spend
someone else's money to put it back.
Ah ... so Americans are all single-digit IQ types .....
But such plan as he does have is cribbed straight out of Project 2025,
which is similar to communism in that it wants to centralise power in
the hands of a favoured few, and implement top down strategies of
political control.
On 4/7/25 3:47 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On 6 Apr 2025 00:14:27 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:Well ... it was what it was.
I don't have chapter and verse to quote, but back in the day I was
told that the original design of the 6502 _WAS_ superior to the 6809,
but Motorola sued on a basis of IP theft or similar, and the 6502 was
dumbed down by removing registers and/or crippling the indexing modes.
No, that would have been the Motorola 6800. The 6809 came somewhat
later.
The main rivalry in the 8-bit world was between the 6502 and the Z80.
6502 fans liked to tout the fact that their fave CPU had so many
instructions that would execute in one clock cycle ... until you looked
closer and discovered that it was restricting itself to 8-bit address
arithmetic, where the Z80 was supporting full 16-bit addresses.
And the 65xx clearly WAS very very popular.
How many Apple's, CBMs, sold ?
On 4 Apr 2025 00:50:26 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
The version I bought was for CP/M. TBH I wasn't all that interested
in Pascal but I wanted to see what you could possibly get for $49.95.
That was the key: fast, usable, and *way* cheaper than anything else
on the market. (Microsoft C - really just a re-branded Lattice C - cost
*ten times as much,* the same year TP rolled out.) Whether Pascal was
your favorite programming language or not, that made a *big* difference
to scrappy independent developers and prospective enterpreneurs.
BUT ... cannot remember if the early TPs supported CP/M-86 or real
Z80 CP/M ......
As for the original subject ... alas the 6502 stuff DOES seem to have
died. It was also a pretty good chip fam, widely used, but for some
reason didn't have the lifeforce of the Z80.
On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 07:53:33 -0700, John Ames wrote:
On 4 Apr 2025 00:50:26 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
The version I bought was for CP/M. TBH I wasn't all that interested in
Pascal but I wanted to see what you could possibly get for $49.95.
That was the key: fast, usable, and *way* cheaper than anything else on
the market. (Microsoft C - really just a re-branded Lattice C - cost
*ten times as much,* the same year TP rolled out.) Whether Pascal was
your favorite programming language or not, that made a *big* difference
to scrappy independent developers and prospective enterpreneurs.
Microsoft C 3.0 was a polished product for its day with printed manuals
and everything. GE paid for it so I don't know what it cost. Before they
got into Windows I thought of MS more as a tool provider, with MSDOS as an afterthought. It was third party TSRs and, iirc, Quaterdeck's memory
manager that made DOS on an AT usable.
On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 02:00:11 -0400, c186282 wrote:
BUT ... cannot remember if the early TPs supported CP/M-86 or real
Z80 CP/M ......
CP/M-80 was supported.
As for the original subject ... alas the 6502 stuff DOES seem to have
died. It was also a pretty good chip fam, widely used, but for some
reason didn't have the lifeforce of the Z80.
https://eater.net/6502
The variant he uses is a static core so you can clock it step by step. In
the video he does a cute thing by tying data lines to create a no-op that then cycles through successive addresses. THe use of an Arduino as sort of
a logic analyzer is interesting too. I don't need another project.
https://www.mouser.com/new/western-design-center/wdc-w65c02s/
Peddle ate Motorola's lunch but later business decisions weren't stellar.
For sort of a mixed metaphor
https://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/kim-uno-summary-c1uuh
or if you are a purist
https://www.tindie.com/products/kim1/pal-1-a-mos-6502-powered-computer-
kit/