On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 05:18:58 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

Today it's evolved into the doctrine of "embrace, extend, extinguish".

Microsoft has met its match with Linux, though. It tried “extinguish”
first (remember “Linux is a cancer”? Or the infamous “Get The Facts” campaign?), threw everything in its arsenal (both legal and not so legal)
at it, and failed miserably.

So how it has to embrace Linux. And interestingly, the “extend” part of
its strategy is being applied, not to Linux, but to Windows, to try to
make it more Linux like.

So guess what, if anything, is going to get “extinguished”?

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On 2024-10-29, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 05:18:58 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

Today it's evolved into the doctrine of "embrace, extend, extinguish".

Microsoft has met its match with Linux, though. It tried “extinguish” first (remember “Linux is a cancer”? Or the infamous “Get The Facts” campaign?), threw everything in its arsenal (both legal and not so legal)
at it, and failed miserably.

Then there was the TCO (total cost of ownership) fiasco, in which their
claims were soundly disproven.

So how it has to embrace Linux. And interestingly, the “extend” part of its strategy is being applied, not to Linux, but to Windows, to try to
make it more Linux like.

So guess what, if anything, is going to get “extinguished”?

:-) Nice fantasy, though.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | We'll go down in history as the
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | first society that wouldn't save
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | itself because it wasn't cost-
/ \ if you read it the right way. | effective. -- Kurt Vonnegut

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On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 18:35:15 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2024-10-29, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

So how it has to embrace Linux. And interestingly, the “extend” part of >> its strategy is being applied, not to Linux, but to Windows, to try to
make it more Linux like.

So guess what, if anything, is going to get “extinguished”?

:-) Nice fantasy, though.

Microsoft released its “AI Workstation” development platform for Windows. And guess what: WSL2 is a requirement.

Can you say “slippery slope” ... ?

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On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 00:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 18:35:15 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2024-10-29, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

So how it has to embrace Linux. And interestingly, the “extend” part >>> of its strategy is being applied, not to Linux, but to Windows, to try
to make it more Linux like.

So guess what, if anything, is going to get “extinguished”?

:-) Nice fantasy, though.

Microsoft released its “AI Workstation” development platform for
Windows.
And guess what: WSL2 is a requirement.

Can you say “slippery slope” ... ?

Supposedly you can make Docker Desktop work without WSL but I don't think
it's very happy.

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On 10/29/24 12:56 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 05:18:58 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

Today it's evolved into the doctrine of "embrace, extend, extinguish".

Microsoft has met its match with Linux, though. It tried “extinguish” first (remember “Linux is a cancer”? Or the infamous “Get The Facts” campaign?), threw everything in its arsenal (both legal and not so legal)
at it, and failed miserably.

So how it has to embrace Linux. And interestingly, the “extend” part of its strategy is being applied, not to Linux, but to Windows, to try to
make it more Linux like.

So guess what, if anything, is going to get “extinguished”?

Winders WILL persist ... but, kinda like iOS, will
be some kind of Unix under the GUI. However they
won't really TELL anyone .......

The "look & feel" and some degree of backwards
compatibility is required. Then they can still
claim it's Winders. The backwards compatibility
may even be achieved, sneakily, using emulators -
either outright or as spawned VMs.

Winders, as IS, is a Gordian knot ... a total
MESS. Nobody knows why/how anything works or
how it interacts with other stuff except by
gross trial and error. It's unsustainable -
way too big for its britches.

Hurry hurry, don't be late, buy yer Win NT2
at the great new introductory price ! :-)

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On 10/29/24 9:24 PM, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 00:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 18:35:15 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2024-10-29, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

So how it has to embrace Linux. And interestingly, the “extend” part >>>> of its strategy is being applied, not to Linux, but to Windows, to try >>>> to make it more Linux like.

So guess what, if anything, is going to get “extinguished”?

:-) Nice fantasy, though.

Microsoft released its “AI Workstation” development platform for
Windows.
And guess what: WSL2 is a requirement.

Can you say “slippery slope” ... ?

Supposedly you can make Docker Desktop work without WSL but I don't think it's very happy.

Step by step by step, M$ is encouraging standards/approaches
that REQUIRE it's own methods/systems/software. It's a cancer.
Biz idiots don't even remotely recognize the trap - and don't
and won't listen to actual programmers/system-guys.

Hey, the fellow-idiots at The Meeting say EVERYBODY is doing
it - so WE have to do it too or we'll get 'criticism' !!!

One of the reasons I retired .....

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On 11/6/24 2:01 PM, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 18:17:02 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

For the majority of drivers, their car is "magic" to them as well. They
have no idea how any of it works, nor do they have any care to know even
the slightest amount of how it works.

Too true. I'm an oddity when I shop for a car since I pop the hood while
the salesman blathers on. I do my own maintenance and want to be sure it
will be feasible. My Toyota's maintenance schedule is rather boring -- replace the oil and filter every 5K -- but I made sure the filter is accessible. It's tight but I can reach down from the top to unscrew it although I still need to go to ground to remove the drain plug.

Being a Toyota that's about it although I have three bikes that keep me in practice. They're not as bullet proof.

Had plenty of bikes, before my legs got old. Some
are easy, some not at all. Liked the big heavy
cruisers, pref for Japanese.

The overall 'best' car today is probably Toyota,
but Honda's are very reliable too (NOT sure about
accessing the bits these days however).

KINDA in the market for another car - never buy
new, always "tested". Maybe a simple Corolla.
A couple of Subaru's look OK but tend to get
a more premium price. Frankly NOT hot on 'smart'
cars at all. I'd love a '69 Falcon with the 200
six ... had one long long ago. Super-simple, a
tank, you could kinda literally climb into the
hood to get at the parts, adequate performance,
didn't report your every move to the company.
Could maybe add a little selected 'smartness'
with a PI ....

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On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 20:37:02 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

I'd love a '69 Falcon with the 200
six ... had one long long ago. Super-simple, a tank, you could kinda
literally climb into the hood to get at the parts, adequate
performance,
didn't report your every move to the company. Could maybe add a
little selected 'smartness' with a PI ....

I had a '62 2 door Falcon Futura Sports Sedan white with a black vinyl
top. It looked like a shrunken T-Bird and thought it was a Jeep. One
Christmas holiday I was at my cousin's in NJ when a blizzard hit so bad
the NYS Thruway was closed. The Taconic Parkway was open so I took that.
My mother whined all the way but we made it to Troy. The 170 was no fire breather but it kept on going.

It was diametrically opposed to my '62 Continental if you want to talk
about tanks. 5400 lbs at the curb with a 430 engine. It had a fondness for
fuel pumps and the forward opening hood made for a miserable experience.
They should have done it like the Triumph Spitfire where the whole front
end swung up and you could it on a tire while working on it.

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On 11/9/24 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:

On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 20:37:02 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

I'd love a '69 Falcon with the 200
six ... had one long long ago. Super-simple, a tank, you could kinda
literally climb into the hood to get at the parts, adequate
performance,
didn't report your every move to the company. Could maybe add a
little selected 'smartness' with a PI ....

I had a '62 2 door Falcon Futura Sports Sedan white with a black vinyl
top. It looked like a shrunken T-Bird and thought it was a Jeep. One Christmas holiday I was at my cousin's in NJ when a blizzard hit so bad
the NYS Thruway was closed. The Taconic Parkway was open so I took that.
My mother whined all the way but we made it to Troy. The 170 was no fire breather but it kept on going.

I had a friend with a couple of old Mercs - a 61 and 64 if I
recall correctly. Both under 200ci. The older one only had
a TWO-speed tranny. Again, not fire-breathers by any measure,
but they WERE tanks and you COULD get at all the relevant parts.

By the early 70s the quality of American cars suddenly went
down the tubes. Japanese competition was rising so they decided
to cut costs. NOT good.

It was diametrically opposed to my '62 Continental if you want to talk
about tanks. 5400 lbs at the curb with a 430 engine. It had a fondness for fuel pumps and the forward opening hood made for a miserable experience.
They should have done it like the Triumph Spitfire where the whole front
end swung up and you could it on a tire while working on it.

Well, THAT would be TOO EASY for the consumer ! :-)

As for Falcons ... the model line DID persist for a very
long time in Australia. There was one local maker though
who made a "better Falcon", heavier suspension intended
to cope with the rough Aussie roads.

Anyway, those older cars CAN be had - in various stages
of repair/re-do. The prices ain't THAT bad. My only
concern would be PARTS - though you'd think 3-D printers
could create most anything these days.

Looks like 1983 was the last year of the traditional
inline-six alas - from Chrysler corp. Good engines
all in all, just enough and simple. Never quite GOT
the Slant-6 ... WHY they slanted it .....

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On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 02:08:15 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

Looks like 1983 was the last year of the traditional inline-six alas
- from Chrysler corp. Good engines all in all, just enough and
simple. Never quite GOT the Slant-6 ... WHY they slanted it .....

My '86 Ford F150 has a inline-six. I think they went to a V-6 in '87. I
had a '80 Camaro with an I-6 but the '82 Firebird was a V-6. I'd had a '51 Chevy with the old stovebolt 6 216 that was rugged despite the strange
oiling system.

I liked the slant sixes. The slant was to get a lower hood line.
Supposedly the intake manifold made for better fuel distribution. If you
wanted to hot rod it there were some good aftermarket designs. The only
weird thing were the plugs. They sat in a sort of separate metal cup with
an o-ring but they all were easy to remove.

Then there was my '49 Chrysler with the straight 8. My to-be wife didn't
enjoy becoming the duty driver. it was fine on the road but parallel
parking it without power steering kept her biceps tuned up.

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On 2024-10-30, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

Microsoft released its “AI Workstation” development platform for Windows. And guess what: WSL2 is a requirement.
Can you say “slippery slope” ... ?

I believe the end will be a rewrite of Windows to be a user layer on top
of Linus, i.e. a proprietary M$ version of Wine.

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On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 19:19:57 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 2024-10-30, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

Microsoft released its “AI Workstation” development platform for
Windows. And guess what: WSL2 is a requirement.

Can you say “slippery slope” ... ?

I believe the end will be a rewrite of Windows to be a user layer on top
of Linus, i.e. a proprietary M$ version of Wine.

I would say it’s inevitable. Not as some matter of deliberate policy, but simply as the path of least resistance. Windows got to the mess it is
today through a long sequence of short-sighted management decisions made
with the aim of immediate profit; making Linux an essential part of the
core of Windows would simply be a continuation of that trend.

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On 2024-11-10, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

Then there was my '49 Chrysler with the straight 8. My to-be wife didn't enjoy becoming the duty driver. it was fine on the road but parallel
parking it without power steering kept her biceps tuned up.

My first Suburban had power steering and an automatic transmission.
My second had neither. It took a couple of weeks to get used to the
newer one, presumably while my biceps got built up.

They both had a 350 with a Holley Quadrajet carb, though.
Any smartass in a 240Z who thought he could block me from
merging onto the freeway was in for a surprise.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

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On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 19:53:46 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

They both had a 350 with a Holley Quadrajet carb, though.
Any smartass in a 240Z who thought he could block me from merging onto
the freeway was in for a surprise.

There is something to be said for driving a large beater in places like
that. In the '90s I took a break from programming and drove OTR. I't
amazing the people who would try to play chicken with a semi in their BMWs
or Mercs. The best part was in the freeway construction zones that
bottlenecked down to one lane and they would try to jump ahead. Truckers
didn't even have to coordinate over the CB to block them completely and
force them on the shoulder.

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On 11/10/24 3:33 AM, rbowman wrote:

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 02:08:15 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

Looks like 1983 was the last year of the traditional inline-six alas
- from Chrysler corp. Good engines all in all, just enough and
simple. Never quite GOT the Slant-6 ... WHY they slanted it .....

My '86 Ford F150 has a inline-six. I think they went to a V-6 in '87. I
had a '80 Camaro with an I-6 but the '82 Firebird was a V-6. I'd had a '51 Chevy with the old stovebolt 6 216 that was rugged despite the strange
oiling system.

I liked the slant sixes. The slant was to get a lower hood line.
Supposedly the intake manifold made for better fuel distribution. If you wanted to hot rod it there were some good aftermarket designs. The only
weird thing were the plugs. They sat in a sort of separate metal cup with
an o-ring but they all were easy to remove.

Then there was my '49 Chrysler with the straight 8. My to-be wife didn't enjoy becoming the duty driver. it was fine on the road but parallel
parking it without power steering kept her biceps tuned up.

A place I worked had a straight-8 truck with 6v ignition.

They put an 8v battery in it - cranked better.

Ran great. Real work-horse. I have heard complaints
that such long engines were hard to COOL though.

I can kinda see the logic of 'lower hood line' for
the Slant-6. However it seems like half a V-12,
so why not .... ? :-)

THESE days with fuel injection and smarter ignition
and aluminum pistons you can likely replace those 200
sixes with a 200 straight or V-4 and get the same or
even better performance. But, for for the day ...
the tough/simple/ez-service cast-iron solution.

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On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 19:44:38 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

THESE days with fuel injection and smarter ignition
and aluminum pistons you can likely replace those 200 sixes with a
200 straight or V-4 and get the same or even better performance. But,
for for the day ... the tough/simple/ez-service cast-iron solution.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/reviews/a5041/ performance-tests-first-drives-1965-ford-mustang-r-and-t-archive-drive/

They didn't deign to test the 6, only the 260 and 289 V-8s but

"The straight-line performance of the Mustangs we tried was about what you would expect. In all three versions, there was a tendency to lift the
right rear wheel under hard acceleration but once underway the Mustang accelerated away at a brisk rate—the 289 4-speed getting through the
standing quarter mile in about 16 sec, the automatic making it in about
17, a second slower, and the 3-speed 260 being about a second slower that that."

https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/toyota-0-60-mph-times/

Most of the Yaris quarter mile times are in the 17 second range. The I4
engine is a whipping 91 cubic inches (1.5 L). 2018 was the last year for
the Yaris hatchback in the US. Even then the 4 door sedan was a rebadged
Mazda 2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_Yaris

I'd love to get one of those but that's not happening in the US.

Looking back at the '60s and '70s is depressing when it comes to what we thought were cool rides. I had a '71 AMC Javelin rental that I thought was
a classy way to get around Minnesota at 90 mph or so.

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/vintage-reviews/vintage-road-test-1971- amc-javelin-road-test-magazine-evaluates-a-regular-pony-car/

360 ci and 16.08 in the quarter. A Prius might embarrass it stop light to
stop light.

I don't think Moore's Law is applicable to cars but there is the same relationship when I compare my phone to hot computers of the past.

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On 03/11/2024 19:19, Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 2024-10-30, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

Microsoft released its “AI Workstation” development platform for Windows.
And guess what: WSL2 is a requirement.
Can you say “slippery slope” ... ?

I believe the end will be a rewrite of Windows to be a user layer on top
of Linus, i.e. a proprietary M$ version of Wine.

I think so too.

But one has to ask what in fact a desktop OS is for these days.

The 'home PC' is now a fondleslab, TV or smartphone.


--
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and
higher education positively fortifies it."

- Stephen Vizinczey

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On Mon, 4 Nov 2024 13:19:25 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But one has to ask what in fact a desktop OS is for these days.

The “desktop” OS originated back in the day when people couldn’t afford “workstations”. Look at the Unix-based systems of the time (particularly the RISC-based ones), and you see machines that did interactive “desktop” stuff, with the added advantage of multitasking, but more than that, they
also offered “server”-style functionality in the same package.

That, in essence, was a “workstation”. Microsoft killed it off in favour
of a model where the server-style functionality is carefully crippled in
the “desktop” OS, so if you want that, you have to pay extra bucks (a lot of extra bucks) for a “server” OS.

Well, Microsoft killed off the “Unix workstation”. But today we have the “Linux workstation” in its place, doing everything its predecessor could
do back then, and more.

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On 11/4/24 5:13 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Mon, 4 Nov 2024 13:19:25 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But one has to ask what in fact a desktop OS is for these days.

The “desktop” OS originated back in the day when people couldn’t afford “workstations”. Look at the Unix-based systems of the time (particularly the RISC-based ones), and you see machines that did interactive “desktop” stuff, with the added advantage of multitasking, but more than that, they also offered “server”-style functionality in the same package.

That, in essence, was a “workstation”. Microsoft killed it off in favour of a model where the server-style functionality is carefully crippled in
the “desktop” OS, so if you want that, you have to pay extra bucks (a lot of extra bucks) for a “server” OS.

Well, Microsoft killed off the “Unix workstation”. But today we have the “Linux workstation” in its place, doing everything its predecessor could do back then, and more.

The "desktop OS" went WAY back - originally to Xerox,
there was even a C-128 version (which was better than
Win-1).

I have a VM running Win-1.x - just AWFUL !!! Oddly, found
a BYTE magazine with a review of Win-1 ... I'm saving that.

GUIs are just easier to deal with for a LOT of little
things, esp things non-experts may need. Yea, yea,
the purists think editing endless obscure config files
is all anyone would want and need. NOPE ! Ain't 1960
anymore folks, no warehouse full of clattering iron.

Sorry, but 99.9x percent of computer users are NOT
"experts". They need stuff to be easy, intuitive,
to WORK without trauma. Granny needs her e-mail
without setting up a full mail server on her PC
and writing a POP3 app.

M$ and Apple made VAST fortunes and influence by
replacing the 'unix workstation desktop' with
stuff that's NICE.

It's up to Linux/Unix to CATCH UP in this respect.
Joe and Jane User should kinda NEVER have to think
about the underlying system - just point-n-click
tweaks in an aesthetic, helpful, GUI.

Yes, there will always be some of us who find
an SSH terminal adequate for most tasks - but
we're the VERY few, we're not really a "market"
or "following".

So .. <bitch-slaps> .....

Just sayin'

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On 11/10/24 10:03 PM, rbowman wrote:

On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 19:44:38 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

THESE days with fuel injection and smarter ignition
and aluminum pistons you can likely replace those 200 sixes with a
200 straight or V-4 and get the same or even better performance. But,
for for the day ... the tough/simple/ez-service cast-iron solution.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/reviews/a5041/ performance-tests-first-drives-1965-ford-mustang-r-and-t-archive-drive/

They didn't deign to test the 6, only the 260 and 289 V-8s but

"The straight-line performance of the Mustangs we tried was about what you would expect. In all three versions, there was a tendency to lift the
right rear wheel under hard acceleration but once underway the Mustang accelerated away at a brisk rate—the 289 4-speed getting through the standing quarter mile in about 16 sec, the automatic making it in about
17, a second slower, and the 3-speed 260 being about a second slower that that."

https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/toyota-0-60-mph-times/

Most of the Yaris quarter mile times are in the 17 second range. The I4 engine is a whipping 91 cubic inches (1.5 L). 2018 was the last year for
the Yaris hatchback in the US. Even then the 4 door sedan was a rebadged Mazda 2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_Yaris

The "Mustang" was nothing but a Falcon chassis/engine
with a 'sporty' body bolted on top.

No especially great performance - but they LOOKED good !

I'd love to get one of those but that's not happening in the US.

Looking back at the '60s and '70s is depressing when it comes to what we thought were cool rides. I had a '71 AMC Javelin rental that I thought was
a classy way to get around Minnesota at 90 mph or so.

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/vintage-reviews/vintage-road-test-1971- amc-javelin-road-test-magazine-evaluates-a-regular-pony-car/

360 ci and 16.08 in the quarter. A Prius might embarrass it stop light to stop light.

Well, many EVs have GREAT torque ...

But they're really no better, or even worse, in
long-haul driving.

Detroit cars, by and large, were not really "high
performance" but "utilitarian' - get Joe consumer
to work, to the market, to grandmother's house,
at a bearable price.

I don't think Moore's Law is applicable to cars but there is the same relationship when I compare my phone to hot computers of the past.

More is involved with cars than with Moore's Law.
It's always a price/performance/reliability thing
with cars and newer ISN'T always better.

And frankly the push to really short hoods just
made 'em UGLY. Gimme a '34 Packard 12 any time :-)

I'd decidedly consider a restored late 60s car - but
it'd have to come from some state where there's not
a lot of SALT being used (or in the air). That's just
a handful of central/western states.

Now to consider ... exactly WHAT kinds of extra IQ,
likely using a Pi/Linux, would be appropriate to
add to a late 60s vehicle ? I'd like better water
temp/flow info, better oil-pressure monitoring,
transmission oil temps, might be possible to get
a fair view of brake-pad thickness/temp/status,
at least some charts of exhaust temp/mix to
facilitate finer-tuning. *I* want to be informed,
but not Ford/Chevy/Vlad/Progressive/etc.

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On Tue, 12 Nov 2024 01:19:02 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

I'd decidedly consider a restored late 60s car - but it'd have to
come from some state where there's not a lot of SALT being used (or
in the air). That's just a handful of central/western states.

The car shows here have a lot of restored '60s cars that look pristine. My problem is I drove some of them when they were brand new and wasn't all
that impressed. My thing is the '40s fat fender coupes. Those were what
the cool people drove when I was a kid. I guess it's what you were
imprinted with.

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On 12/11/2024 06:19, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

Now to consider ... exactly WHAT kinds of extra IQ,
  likely using a Pi/Linux, would be appropriate to
  add to a late 60s vehicle ? I'd like better water
  temp/flow info, better oil-pressure monitoring,
  transmission oil temps, might be possible to get
  a fair view of brake-pad thickness/temp/status,
  at least some charts of exhaust temp/mix to
  facilitate finer-tuning. *I* want to be informed,
  but not Ford/Chevy/Vlad/Progressive/etc.

The day I bought a car with electronic ignition and fuel injection was
the day I said goodbye to 'crank no start'

I spent my entire youth clearing blocked carburettors, flooded engines
and adjusting points gaps

I am entirely happy with engine management systems!

--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent renewable energy.

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On 04/11/2024 22:26, John Ames wrote:

On Mon, 4 Nov 2024 13:19:25 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

But one has to ask what in fact a desktop OS is for these days.

Any damn thing you please, no walled gardens needed, thankyouverymuch.

The 'home PC' is now a fondleslab, TV or smartphone.

People have been nattering about "the death of the PC" for upwards of
twelve years now - and they're still here.

Yes, but they are no longer the goto for an IT illiterate consumer.

A desktop workstation is in use by people in business, by designers, and
by hard core realtime 3D gamers.

Everything else has gone touchy-feely-crappy.

That's changed the dynamic of 'what in fact a desktop OS is for these days'

I didn't mean there wasn't a need for one: Just that as desktops move
into more professional areas, they way they work doesn't need to be so
'chrome and tailfin'

Microsoft is keeping the PC market alive by introducing new code that
wont run on old hardware. Apple is the same.

So the second hand market is flooded with dirt cheap PCS that wont run
win11 or whatever.

I think this will in the end drive some applications to run on Linux as
well as windows and OSX

Or windows will as someone else pointed out, be simply a certified WINE interface.

The only thing that windows can do, but its a very important thing, is
to runs specialist 3rd party programs.

--
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker

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On 11/5/24 8:53 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 04/11/2024 22:26, John Ames wrote:

On Mon, 4 Nov 2024 13:19:25 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

But one has to ask what in fact a desktop OS is for these days.

Any damn thing you please, no walled gardens needed, thankyouverymuch.

The 'home PC' is now a fondleslab, TV or smartphone.

People have been nattering about "the death of the PC" for upwards of
twelve years now - and they're still here.

Yes, but they are no longer the goto for an IT illiterate consumer.

A desktop workstation is in use by people in business, by designers, and
by hard core realtime 3D gamers.

Everything else has gone touchy-feely-crappy.

That's changed the dynamic of 'what in fact a desktop OS is for these days'

I didn't mean there wasn't a need for one: Just that as desktops move
into more professional areas, they way they work doesn't need to be so 'chrome and tailfin'

Microsoft is keeping the PC market alive by introducing new code that
wont run on old hardware. Apple is the same.

So the second hand market is flooded with dirt cheap PCS that wont run
win11 or whatever.

I think this will in the end drive some applications to run on Linux as
well as windows and OSX

Or windows will as someone else pointed out, be simply a certified WINE interface.

The only thing that windows can do, but its a very important thing, is
to runs specialist 3rd party programs.

You're not entirely wrong.

'PCs' are heavily 'game' oriented now.

With gigabit+ internet in many places MOST ordinary/biz
users can get by with the "thin terminal" model. All the
real work is done "out there" on some corps supercluster.

Back to the 70s !

Which makes them your masters/owners.

But few think about that. Like, what could go wrong ?

Alas this current, defective, paradigm means that
even Linux/Unix servers and workstations get degraded
by another notch in the big scheme of things.

MIGHT be time to push into a "two worlds" paradigm -
"cloud" -vs- "local".

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On 11/12/24 2:47 AM, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 12 Nov 2024 01:19:02 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

I'd decidedly consider a restored late 60s car - but it'd have to
come from some state where there's not a lot of SALT being used (or
in the air). That's just a handful of central/western states.

The car shows here have a lot of restored '60s cars that look pristine. My problem is I drove some of them when they were brand new and wasn't all
that impressed. My thing is the '40s fat fender coupes. Those were what
the cool people drove when I was a kid. I guess it's what you were
imprinted with.

I'd love a 30s Packard :-)

Something about "the look" ...

Some Model-As and REOs kinda had "it" too.

Post-WW2 ... nah ... not so much ... but
the mechanicals were better.

Anyway, as for "look pristine" ... if they
come from up north where they slather the
roads with salt all winter or too close to
an ocean, "pristine" will become "pile of
rust" REAL soon. West Texas, Okies, Colorado,
maybe Kansas, those are yer best bets.
Rust-proofing was NOT a big thing until
the 70s or so.

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On 11/12/24 3:38 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 12/11/2024 06:19, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

Now to consider ... exactly WHAT kinds of extra IQ,
   likely using a Pi/Linux, would be appropriate to
   add to a late 60s vehicle ? I'd like better water
   temp/flow info, better oil-pressure monitoring,
   transmission oil temps, might be possible to get
   a fair view of brake-pad thickness/temp/status,
   at least some charts of exhaust temp/mix to
   facilitate finer-tuning. *I* want to be informed,
   but not Ford/Chevy/Vlad/Progressive/etc.

The day I bought a car with electronic ignition and fuel injection was
the day I said goodbye to 'crank no start'

I spent my entire youth clearing blocked carburettors, flooded engines
and adjusting points gaps

I am entirely happy with engine management systems!

Except, quickly, they went TOO far ......

As said - *I* want to know, but NO tattling !

And SCREW "emergency mode" if something is
slightly out of spec !

Injection and at least CD ignitions really DID
improve power/startability. Carbs worked, but
only just SO well.

"Carburetors man ! That's what life is all about !"

Anyway, cheap ultrasonic flow sensors, temperature
sensors and such are easily had now - some are
One-Wire. The BRAKE info ... it comes to me that
the pads might be considered to be part of a
capacitance RC circuit - so something kinda
simple might be assembled. Most 60s cars used
DRUM brakes, you got maybe two or three good
apps before they'd fade.

I remember kits (Whitney?) so you could put
two, maybe three, carbs onto a 6-cyl - up
to four on a V-8.

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On 13/11/2024 08:50, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

Most 60s cars used
  DRUM brakes, you got maybe two or three good
  apps before they'd fade.

The thing about drum brakes is that they have slight but significant
innate brake assistance - the leading shoe tends to wedge itself on.

I don't want to go back to unassisted brakes and no power steering either.

Most of the complexity of modern engine management systems is to do with controlling emissions and squeezing the last mile out of a gallon of
sauce...


--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

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On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 02:00:33 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

On 10/29/24 9:24 PM, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 00:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

Microsoft released its “AI Workstation” development platform for
Windows. And guess what: WSL2 is a requirement.

Can you say “slippery slope” ... ?

Supposedly you can make Docker Desktop work without WSL but I don't
think it's very happy.

Step by step by step, M$ is encouraging standards/approaches that
REQUIRE it's own methods/systems/software.

Actually, more and more they are requiring Linux. I wouldn’t say it’s a conscious strategy, it’s just the path of least resistance, once you have
a powerful, functional Linux kernel present, it’s easier to rely on that
than try to reinvent the wheel in your own proprietary fashion, and
getting it wrong.

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On 06/11/2024 08:35, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

MIGHT be time to push into a "two worlds" paradigm -
  "cloud" -vs- "local".

Ive seen that see-saw go one way and then the other.

In the beginning computers were Very Expensive, and God said
"Lo, let them time share"

The Lo, the microprocessor arrived, and Bill Gates said:

"Let them have computing power on their desktop" and it *was* good.
But the forces of Evil did then invent universal networking, and the
people, being lazy fuckers did cluster to the false Gods of the Clouds
who promised: "Give us all your data, and we shall look after all of it
for you, and ye shall no longer have to worship at the altar of C:\"

But the high priests of the One True God replied, saying 'verily we say
unto ye that the false gods of the Clouds are not your gods, and they
are the spawn of Satan, and ye should instead install the mighty
Penguin, prophet to the True God, and be Free and learn to look after
your own data".

But the people said 'honestly mate, we cant be fucking bothered. We did exchange a walk on part in a war for a lead rôle in a comfortable cage:
We don't need no stinking desktops anyway. That's for content creators -
we are only consumers of popcorn , coke, and whatever drivel is 'free'
on air and online'

And they voted for the Orange Jesus, because they were simply *bored of* assholes telling them what to do and treating them like idiots.

"When you follow the [Liberal progressive] herd all you see is assholes." "Donald may be an asshole, but you said that is what we were anyway, so
he is at least *our* asshole."

Ho hum.

Interesting times


--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

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On 06/11/2024 13:20, Rich wrote:

There are a great many users for whom their *only* computing device is
a cell phone or tablet. Every one of them is already firmly in the
"thin terminal" camp.

The "touchy-feely-crappy" (i.e., cell phone/tablet) (as TNP puts it)
appeals to the IT illiterate because it seems easier to use. And
there's a whole lot more IT illiterate in this world than there are
even moderately IT literate folks.

I cant reliably answer my smartphone after 5 years. Sometimes it wants a
touch sometimes a swipe, and half the time the touchscreen doesn't work
because my fingers are dry or something.

It is quite frankly complete and utter shit.

--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

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186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:

On 11/5/24 8:53 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Yes, but they are no longer the goto for an IT illiterate consumer.

A desktop workstation is in use by people in business, by designers,
and by hard core realtime 3D gamers.

Everything else has gone touchy-feely-crappy.

'PCs' are heavily 'game' oriented now.

With gigabit+ internet in many places MOST ordinary/biz
users can get by with the "thin terminal" model. All the
real work is done "out there" on some corps supercluster.

"Most users" switched to the "thin terminal" model long before gigabit+ internet was available in many places.

Every single cell phone and tablet is a "thin terminal", in two
meanings of "thin":

1) acts as little more than a display for actual computation which is
performed on a central, shared, computer;

2) is "thin" as in "measures a small amount of depth" :)

There are a great many users for whom their *only* computing device is
a cell phone or tablet. Every one of them is already firmly in the
"thin terminal" camp.

The "touchy-feely-crappy" (i.e., cell phone/tablet) (as TNP puts it)
appeals to the IT illiterate because it seems easier to use. And
there's a whole lot more IT illiterate in this world than there are
even moderately IT literate folks.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Wed, 6 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/11/2024 13:20, Rich wrote:

There are a great many users for whom their *only* computing device is
a cell phone or tablet. Every one of them is already firmly in the
"thin terminal" camp.

The "touchy-feely-crappy" (i.e., cell phone/tablet) (as TNP puts it)
appeals to the IT illiterate because it seems easier to use. And
there's a whole lot more IT illiterate in this world than there are
even moderately IT literate folks.

I cant reliably answer my smartphone after 5 years. Sometimes it wants a touch sometimes a swipe, and half the time the touchscreen doesn't work because my fingers are dry or something.

It is quite frankly complete and utter shit.

Just throw it away. Haven't had a smart phone in a loooong time and my
nokia 110 4g works perfectly. To answer, I push a button, and it works!

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On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 13:20:02 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

The "touchy-feely-crappy" (i.e., cell phone/tablet) (as TNP puts it)
appeals to the IT illiterate because it seems easier to use. And
there's a whole lot more IT illiterate in this world than there are even moderately IT literate folks.

It was inevitable. Most users aren't interested in the technology. The
content could be delivered by magic for all they care. My Nokia doesn't
have a replaceable battery and will die someday so I keep abreast of the
phone market. All the reviews are concerned with is how well the phone can
play videos, take photos, and play games. For that matter most car reviews
are more interested in the entertainment system than what lives under the
hood.

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On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 11:31:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

And they voted for the Orange Jesus, because they were simply *bored of* assholes telling them what to do and treating them like idiots.

"When you follow the [Liberal progressive] herd all you see is
assholes."
"Donald may be an asshole, but you said that is what we were anyway, so
he is at least *our* asshole."

I studiously avoided all the election night bullshit. My first hint was
when I looked at my email this morning. A conservative Catholic newsletter
had an article headlined 'Trump Wins: Let the Work Begin'.

Looking at the state results was even better. Our three term Democratic
Senator lost by 13 points. Both Republican Representatives won handily, as
did the governor.

To be honest, I didn't see it happening. Now to see if the Orange Jesus
learned from his last term and can avoid hiring backstabbers.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 14:04:24 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I cant reliably answer my smartphone after 5 years. Sometimes it wants a touch sometimes a swipe, and half the time the touchscreen doesn't work because my fingers are dry or something.

I very rarely use the phone so if it does ring it takes me a while to
figure out what the noise is and how to make it stop. Sometimes I even
manage to answer it.

My usage: a Fitbit app, a pedometer app, a geocaching app, and a Slack
app for work. I recently added a GPS app to get the raw GPS data. I was
mostly interested in elevation, as in how many feet of ascent did I do.

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rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 13:20:02 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

The "touchy-feely-crappy" (i.e., cell phone/tablet) (as TNP puts it)
appeals to the IT illiterate because it seems easier to use. And
there's a whole lot more IT illiterate in this world than there are even
moderately IT literate folks.

It was inevitable. Most users aren't interested in the technology. The content could be delivered by magic for all they care.

For most (99%) of users, to them, the content *is* delivered by magic:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws>

And for that 99%, having no idea, and no care to know, how any of it
works, it is simply "the magic box that plays my videos".

My Nokia doesn't have a replaceable battery and will die someday so I
keep abreast of the phone market.

It is likely possible, albiet with some effort, to replace the battery
if need be.

All the reviews are concerned with is how well the phone can play
videos, take photos, and play games.

Of course. Pandering to the masses in order to get the "views"
necessary for the "ad revenue" to spill out.

For that matter most car reviews are more interested in the
entertainment system than what lives under the hood.

For the majority of drivers, their car is "magic" to them as well.
They have no idea how any of it works, nor do they have any care to
know even the slightest amount of how it works.

The majority of "the masses" have no inherent curiosity at all. The
remainder that do become the scientists and engineers that create the
"magic" for the rest.

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On 06/11/2024 15:49, D wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/11/2024 13:20, Rich wrote:

There are a great many users for whom their *only* computing device is
a cell phone or tablet.  Every one of them is already firmly in the
"thin terminal" camp.

The "touchy-feely-crappy" (i.e., cell phone/tablet) (as TNP puts it)
appeals to the IT illiterate because it seems easier to use.  And
there's a whole lot more IT illiterate in this world than there are
even moderately IT literate folks.

I cant reliably answer my smartphone after 5 years. Sometimes it wants
a touch sometimes a swipe, and half the time the touchscreen doesn't
work because my fingers are dry or something.

It is quite frankly complete and utter shit.

Just throw it away. Haven't had a smart phone in a loooong time and my
nokia 110 4g works perfectly. To answer, I push a button, and it works!

If only. I need it to receive text messages for 2FA at the very least.
And whatsapp the family around the world.

The best feature is that I can read books on it and it has a really good satnav, as long as I dont touch the screen.


--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

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On 06/11/2024 17:59, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 11:31:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

And they voted for the Orange Jesus, because they were simply *bored of*
assholes telling them what to do and treating them like idiots.

"When you follow the [Liberal progressive] herd all you see is
assholes."
"Donald may be an asshole, but you said that is what we were anyway, so
he is at least *our* asshole."

I studiously avoided all the election night bullshit. My first hint was
when I looked at my email this morning. A conservative Catholic newsletter had an article headlined 'Trump Wins: Let the Work Begin'.

Looking at the state results was even better. Our three term Democratic Senator lost by 13 points. Both Republican Representatives won handily, as did the governor.

To be honest, I didn't see it happening. Now to see if the Orange Jesus learned from his last term and can avoid hiring backstabbers.

I am of mixed mind., There are many good things a Republican
administration will probably do as long as he doesn't get involved.

And if it means the end of the 'progressive Liberal' social experiment,
that's good too.

But he will wreak revenge and I am seriously worried about Ukraine.

If that is allowed to fall, Europe is threatened. And Europe doesn't
currently have the ability to churn out armaments at the scale needed by
itself just yet.


--
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and
higher education positively fortifies it."

- Stephen Vizinczey

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On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 18:40:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If only. I need it to receive text messages for 2FA at the very least.
And whatsapp the family around the world.

There is that. The IT guy is a former Microsoftie so the VPN is set up to require the Microsoft Authenticator app. I don't know if that is available
on a desktop.

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On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 18:44:59 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But he will wreak revenge and I am seriously worried about Ukraine.

If that is allowed to fall, Europe is threatened. And Europe doesn't currently have the ability to churn out armaments at the scale needed by itself just yet.

I don't share your worries but I don't live in Europe.

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On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 18:17:02 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

For the majority of drivers, their car is "magic" to them as well. They
have no idea how any of it works, nor do they have any care to know even
the slightest amount of how it works.

Too true. I'm an oddity when I shop for a car since I pop the hood while
the salesman blathers on. I do my own maintenance and want to be sure it
will be feasible. My Toyota's maintenance schedule is rather boring --
replace the oil and filter every 5K -- but I made sure the filter is accessible. It's tight but I can reach down from the top to unscrew it
although I still need to go to ground to remove the drain plug.

Being a Toyota that's about it although I have three bikes that keep me in practice. They're not as bullet proof.

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On Wed, 6 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 11:31:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

And they voted for the Orange Jesus, because they were simply *bored of*
assholes telling them what to do and treating them like idiots.

"When you follow the [Liberal progressive] herd all you see is
assholes."
"Donald may be an asshole, but you said that is what we were anyway, so
he is at least *our* asshole."

I studiously avoided all the election night bullshit. My first hint was
when I looked at my email this morning. A conservative Catholic newsletter had an article headlined 'Trump Wins: Let the Work Begin'.

Looking at the state results was even better. Our three term Democratic Senator lost by 13 points. Both Republican Representatives won handily, as did the governor.

To be honest, I didn't see it happening. Now to see if the Orange Jesus learned from his last term and can avoid hiring backstabbers.

We must pray for him! Can't wait until the coronation ceremony and his
solution for peace in Ukraine!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/11/2024 15:49, D wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/11/2024 13:20, Rich wrote:

There are a great many users for whom their *only* computing device is >>>> a cell phone or tablet.  Every one of them is already firmly in the
"thin terminal" camp.

The "touchy-feely-crappy" (i.e., cell phone/tablet) (as TNP puts it)
appeals to the IT illiterate because it seems easier to use.  And
there's a whole lot more IT illiterate in this world than there are
even moderately IT literate folks.

I cant reliably answer my smartphone after 5 years. Sometimes it wants a >>> touch sometimes a swipe, and half the time the touchscreen doesn't work
because my fingers are dry or something.

It is quite frankly complete and utter shit.

Just throw it away. Haven't had a smart phone in a loooong time and my
nokia 110 4g works perfectly. To answer, I push a button, and it works!

If only. I need it to receive text messages for 2FA at the very least. And whatsapp the family around the world.

I feel your pain! For 2FA I use pass otp in linux. It works with all
providers so far, o365, google, and which ever surveillance service work demands.

In my case, the family is small and within europe, so I call them for
free. I have a sim card from the country they are in, and it gives me
unlimited calls and sms messages for about 10 USD.

My nokia has 2 sim card slots, so I have one for the country I am in, and
one for the country my family is in, and can easily flip between them.

The best feature is that I can read books on it and it has a really good satnav, as long as I dont touch the screen.

You should buy an eInk device if you like reading. It has revolutionized
my reading life and the reading life of my father!

He has learned in linux (at 74) to download ebooks through torrents, and
to convert them with calibre. I'm very proud, and I also think it says a
lot about how usable linux has become for people without a computer
background! =)

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On Wed, 6 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/11/2024 17:59, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 11:31:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

And they voted for the Orange Jesus, because they were simply *bored of* >>> assholes telling them what to do and treating them like idiots.

"When you follow the [Liberal progressive] herd all you see is
assholes."
"Donald may be an asshole, but you said that is what we were anyway, so
he is at least *our* asshole."

I studiously avoided all the election night bullshit. My first hint was
when I looked at my email this morning. A conservative Catholic newsletter >> had an article headlined 'Trump Wins: Let the Work Begin'.

Looking at the state results was even better. Our three term Democratic
Senator lost by 13 points. Both Republican Representatives won handily, as >> did the governor.

To be honest, I didn't see it happening. Now to see if the Orange Jesus
learned from his last term and can avoid hiring backstabbers.

I am of mixed mind., There are many good things a Republican administration will probably do as long as he doesn't get involved.

And if it means the end of the 'progressive Liberal' social experiment, that's good too.

But he will wreak revenge and I am seriously worried about Ukraine.

I wouldn't worry about it. Europe can outspend russia 15x and if europe
cannot manufacture, europe will buy from other countries who can.

Trump is a businessman, so even if he does not send more money to Ukraine,
he will definitely, 100% allow europe to buy weapons and ammunition from
the US. US benefits, and Ukraine, and europe foots the bill, as it should
be in the new Trumpian world.

I even imagine that he will send some token amounts or help out with non-monetary gifts, unless his 24 hour peace plan works out (which I
doubt).

If that is allowed to fall, Europe is threatened. And Europe doesn't currently have the ability to churn out armaments at the scale needed by itself just yet.

It is an interesting question... how long time would it take for europes
weapon companies to up the production?

I saw a mainstream news reports from a swedish weapons factury where they
have already lowered the quality in order to up the quantity of their production line to help ukraine.

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On Wed, 6 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 18:40:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If only. I need it to receive text messages for 2FA at the very least.
And whatsapp the family around the world.

There is that. The IT guy is a former Microsoftie so the VPN is set up to require the Microsoft Authenticator app. I don't know if that is available
on a desktop.

Depends... usually you should be able to tease out the relevant details,
but I haven't touched windows in many decades, so I'm afraid I cannot help
with anything more useful. =(

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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D wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

To be honest, I didn't see it happening. Now to see if the Orange Jesus
learned from his last term and can avoid hiring backstabbers.

Backstabbers? Keepers, more like.

We must pray for him! Can't wait until the coronation ceremony and his solution for peace in Ukraine!

"Vlad, here it is. Take it."

--
Ladybug, ladybug, Look to your stern!
Your house is on fire, Your children will burn!
So jump ye and sing, for The very first time
The four lines above Have been put into rhyme.
-- Walt Kelly

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On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 11:31:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

In the beginning computers were Very Expensive, and God said "Lo, let
them time share"

Actually, the computing gods said “let them use batch”. Timesharing was considered a very inefficient use of scarce and expensive computing
resources.

It took the advent of cheaper minicomputers from (at the time) new
companies like DEC, Data General, Perkin-Elmer, Prime and others, that
were purpose-built for this newfangled interactive timesharing usage, to
allow it to really grow in popularity.

And then the next step was the microcomputer, where machines became cheap enough that one could sit there spending 99% of its time waiting for the
user to hit the next key (or click the mouse button, when those came along
a little bit later).

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On Mon, 4 Nov 2024 22:33:38 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

GUIs are just easier to deal with for a LOT of little things, esp
things non-experts may need.

They are also great for running multiple terminal sessions and being able
to copy-paste between them and editor windows. In other words,

GUI + command line = something more powerful than either on its own

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On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 11:14:00 -0800, John Ames wrote:

On 6 Nov 2024 18:52:54 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

There is that. The IT guy is a former Microsoftie so the VPN is set up
to require the Microsoft Authenticator app. I don't know if that is
available on a desktop.

I don't know about officially, but WinAuth supports it: https://winauth.github.io/winauth/download.html

Thanks. I'll give it a try.

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On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 21:56:16 +0100, D wrote:

Depends... usually you should be able to tease out the relevant details,
but I haven't touched windows in many decades, so I'm afraid I cannot
help with anything more useful. =(

There's a lot going on behind the scenes. The app cranks out a 6 digit
number that's good for a couple of minutes has to be entered into the VPN dialog. The two have to be coordinated so it's a little different than
'we'll text you a number to be entered.'

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On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 21:46:00 +0100, D wrote:

We must pray for him! Can't wait until the coronation ceremony and his solution for peace in Ukraine!

At least the solution will not involve that sow Nuland. She's not fussy
which warmonger she works for. She was in the Clinton administration,
switched up and was an adviser to Cheney the dick in the Bush years,
fomented the Maidan thing for Obama, quit when Trump got in but came back
with Biden like a bad penny.

Seems the Germans are pissing themselves. Bad enough their government
collapsed but they'll have to deal with Trump while they try to hammer out another precarious coalition.

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On 2024-11-06, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 06/11/2024 15:49, D wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/11/2024 13:20, Rich wrote:

There are a great many users for whom their *only* computing device is >>>> a cell phone or tablet.  Every one of them is already firmly in the
"thin terminal" camp.

The "touchy-feely-crappy" (i.e., cell phone/tablet) (as TNP puts it)
appeals to the IT illiterate because it seems easier to use.  And
there's a whole lot more IT illiterate in this world than there are
even moderately IT literate folks.

I cant reliably answer my smartphone after 5 years. Sometimes it wants
a touch sometimes a swipe, and half the time the touchscreen doesn't
work because my fingers are dry or something.

It is quite frankly complete and utter shit.

Just throw it away. Haven't had a smart phone in a loooong time and my
nokia 110 4g works perfectly. To answer, I push a button, and it works!

If only. I need it to receive text messages for 2FA at the very least.
And whatsapp the family around the world.

The best feature is that I can read books on it and it has a really good satnav, as long as I dont touch the screen.

The Schok Classic (flip 4G running Android) handles text
messages. On a good day, it will even show a video. Developer
mode, USB debugging, and ADB allows file transfers for photos,
etc.

The downside is the left side of the hinge breaks, and the
batteries don't last very long before they won't hold a charge.
They are inexpensive enough that keeping a spare or two on hand
isn't bad for mitigating the hinge breakage and battery age-out
problems.

HTH

--
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

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On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 03:19:10 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

Some Model-As and REOs kinda had "it" too.

Post-WW2 ... nah ... not so much ... but the mechanicals were better.

A friend in college had been a commercial pilot who returned to school. He
was older, married, and had acquired some toys like a Model A that he was foolish enough to let us borrow. Troy has steep hills as the surriounding
area drops down to the river. As we descended one I looked over to see
Pete rigid as he tried to control our spped with the original mechanical brakes.

Anyway, as for "look pristine" ... if they come from up north where
they slather the roads with salt all winter or too close to an ocean,
"pristine" will become "pile of rust" REAL soon. West Texas, Okies,
Colorado,
maybe Kansas, those are yer best bets. Rust-proofing was NOT a big
thing until the 70s or so.

Montana is a very religious state: God put the snow there for some reason
and will remove it in the fullness of time. Upstate NY was heavy on the
salt so anything much over 5 years old had problems. The flip side here is older cars look great but are mechanically deficient. There's no vehicle inspection so as long as it runs, go for it.

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On 11/13/24 1:30 PM, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 03:19:10 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

Some Model-As and REOs kinda had "it" too.

Post-WW2 ... nah ... not so much ... but the mechanicals were better.

A friend in college had been a commercial pilot who returned to school. He was older, married, and had acquired some toys like a Model A that he was foolish enough to let us borrow. Troy has steep hills as the surriounding area drops down to the river. As we descended one I looked over to see
Pete rigid as he tried to control our spped with the original mechanical brakes.

NOPE ! NOT so great !!! :-)

Good down-shifting skills were a MUST !

The A's and many others were intended for CITY
driving - NOT mountains. You got maybe TWO
good brake apps - then nothing.

Hey, 20s/30s tech - they did the best they could.

But "The Look" - hard to beat ! LOVE those curved
fenders blending into a running board ... art !
They'd finally figured out what a "horseless carriage"
should LOOK like.

Anyway, as for "look pristine" ... if they come from up north where
they slather the roads with salt all winter or too close to an ocean,
"pristine" will become "pile of rust" REAL soon. West Texas, Okies,
Colorado,
maybe Kansas, those are yer best bets. Rust-proofing was NOT a big
thing until the 70s or so.

Montana is a very religious state: God put the snow there for some reason
and will remove it in the fullness of time. Upstate NY was heavy on the
salt so anything much over 5 years old had problems. The flip side here is older cars look great but are mechanically deficient. There's no vehicle inspection so as long as it runs, go for it.

For a "restored" car - too old now to restore one
myself - a salt-free origin is IMPORTANT. Damned
salt gets into EVERYTHING, deadly corrosion you
may not see immediately, but WILL see soon enough.
So much for your investment .......

So, for "restored" - stick to those "middle states".

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On 11/13/24 3:57 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 13/11/2024 08:50, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

Most 60s cars used
   DRUM brakes, you got maybe two or three good
   apps before they'd fade.

The thing about drum brakes is that they have slight but significant
innate brake assistance - the leading shoe tends to wedge itself on.

Yep - likely By Design.

BUT, the instant things get red hot - NO more brakes.
Modern discs/pads ARE superior.

For old cars, DO practice yer downshifting.

I don't want to go back to unassisted brakes and no power steering either.

"Unassisted" CAN be OK ... but it takes a little
practice.

Had an early-60s car that DID have power steering,
but I was too broke to replace the pump. THAT built
up the arm muscles ! 384 replaced with a 426 ...
massive power, needed a booster fuel pump !

Most of the complexity of modern engine management systems is to do with controlling emissions and squeezing the last mile out of a gallon of
sauce...

This can be good, bad, or just a COMPLICATION.

Smarter fuel control plus ignition timing really
DOES improve things considerably. However TOO much
IQ seems to drift towards the opposite pole, far
more ways for it to go wrong. A car shouldn't
need an ARM-caliber brain to work properly.

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On 06/11/2024 18:55, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 18:44:59 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But he will wreak revenge and I am seriously worried about Ukraine.

If that is allowed to fall, Europe is threatened. And Europe doesn't
currently have the ability to churn out armaments at the scale needed by
itself just yet.

I don't share your worries but I don't live in Europe.

Well I am sure we will do all the worrying on your behalf.

the US hasnt ever been invaded, except by Mexicans. 911 is a picnic
besides what is happening in Ukraine.

If the totalitarians are not stopped they will roll all across Europe
and across the pacific and end up doing a D day in Alaska.

If they haven't already installed their puppet regime in the USA, which
some people think they just did.


--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

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On 06/11/2024 20:46, D wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 11:31:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

And they voted for the Orange Jesus, because they were simply *bored of* >>> assholes telling them what to do and treating them like idiots.

"When you follow the [Liberal progressive] herd all you see is
assholes."
"Donald may be an asshole, but you said that is what we were anyway, so
he is at least *our* asshole."

I studiously avoided all the election night bullshit. My first hint was
when I looked at my email this morning. A conservative Catholic
newsletter
had an article headlined 'Trump Wins: Let the Work Begin'.

Looking at the state results was even better. Our three term Democratic
Senator lost by 13 points. Both Republican Representatives won
handily, as
did the governor.

To be honest, I didn't see it happening. Now to see if the Orange Jesus
learned from his last term and can avoid hiring backstabbers.

We must pray for him! Can't wait until the coronation ceremony and his solution for peace in Ukraine!

Yes. Its been 24 hours already and so far it's 2 Russian missile
carriers destroyed in the Caspian sea, 1000 miles from Ukraine.

The Donald is looking to be a bit of a trump.

Which in English means a loud [wet] fart.

So far the only real news has been of Liberal heads exploding in angst
and existential panic.

It has been salutary for them to realise that more than half the country doesn't buy their patronising moralising bullshit.


--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

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On 06/11/2024 21:43, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

D wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

To be honest, I didn't see it happening. Now to see if the Orange Jesus
learned from his last term and can avoid hiring backstabbers.

Backstabbers? Keepers, more like.

We must pray for him! Can't wait until the coronation ceremony and his
solution for peace in Ukraine!

"Vlad, here it is. Take it."

So far the Ukrainians had their own 'bonfire night'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa03j3tvFnA

Ingenious use of pilotless lightplanes packed with fuel and explosives...


--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

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On 07/11/2024 01:31, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 21:46:00 +0100, D wrote:

We must pray for him! Can't wait until the coronation ceremony and his
solution for peace in Ukraine!

At least the solution will not involve that sow Nuland. She's not fussy
which warmonger she works for. She was in the Clinton administration, switched up and was an adviser to Cheney the dick in the Bush years,
fomented the Maidan thing for Obama, quit when Trump got in but came back with Biden like a bad penny.

Seems the Germans are pissing themselves. Bad enough their government collapsed but they'll have to deal with Trump while they try to hammer out another precarious coalition.

Yes. The Germans are gradually realising that the chief cause of their
ills has been the greens,mthe socialists and their government having
been too nice to Russia.,

Beware.

--
Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without notice.
– Will Durant

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On 07/11/2024 05:11, Robert Riches wrote:

On 2024-11-06, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 06/11/2024 15:49, D wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/11/2024 13:20, Rich wrote:

There are a great many users for whom their *only* computing device is >>>>> a cell phone or tablet.  Every one of them is already firmly in the >>>>> "thin terminal" camp.

The "touchy-feely-crappy" (i.e., cell phone/tablet) (as TNP puts it) >>>>> appeals to the IT illiterate because it seems easier to use.  And
there's a whole lot more IT illiterate in this world than there are
even moderately IT literate folks.

I cant reliably answer my smartphone after 5 years. Sometimes it wants >>>> a touch sometimes a swipe, and half the time the touchscreen doesn't
work because my fingers are dry or something.

It is quite frankly complete and utter shit.

Just throw it away. Haven't had a smart phone in a loooong time and my
nokia 110 4g works perfectly. To answer, I push a button, and it works!

If only. I need it to receive text messages for 2FA at the very least.
And whatsapp the family around the world.

The best feature is that I can read books on it and it has a really good
satnav, as long as I dont touch the screen.

The Schok Classic (flip 4G running Android) handles text
messages. On a good day, it will even show a video. Developer
mode, USB debugging, and ADB allows file transfers for photos,
etc.

The downside is the left side of the hinge breaks, and the
batteries don't last very long before they won't hold a charge.
They are inexpensive enough that keeping a spare or two on hand
isn't bad for mitigating the hinge breakage and battery age-out
problems.

HTH

Oh don't worry. It was cheap, and I have learnt to do what I need to do.
I dont like it, that's all.


--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

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On 06/11/2024 20:55, D wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But he will wreak revenge and I am seriously worried about Ukraine.

I wouldn't worry about it. Europe can outspend russia 15x and if europe cannot manufacture, europe will buy from other countries who can.

Europe COULD, but whether it will is moot.

A lot of people just cant be bothered about Ukraine. They want their mediterranean holidays, not to work in a munitions factory.

Trump is a businessman, so even if he does not send more money to
Ukraine, he will definitely, 100% allow europe to buy weapons and
ammunition from the US. US benefits, and Ukraine, and europe foots the
bill, as it should be in the new Trumpian world.

Well yes, That is a possibility. Europe uses interest on frozen Russian
assets to buy ATACMS. But would trump allow them to be sold?

With Starlink's Musk in his pocket, would he switch off Ukrainian access
to it thereby decimating their ability to use long range drones.

Would he cancel SIGINT flights from the UK carried out by US Rivet
Joints that provide information to Ukraine fir targeting.

The US military is in this up to their necks as are the UK.

Its very much a joint effort, and I can tell when there is something in
the long range strike being planned when aircraft with no transponders
enabled take off from the local USAAF airfields.

Trump may trumpet his bravado from capitol hill, but the reality is that
UK NZ Canadian and Australian intelligence, vital to US security, relies
on co-operation.

911 type operations are planned monthly, and Israelis generally know
when. As do other intelligence services.

There is a world beyond vain Trumpetings, of professional international intelligence and military co-operations that guarantees as far as it can
the safety of all. One person ceasing to pull their weight risks another
911.

I even imagine that he will send some token amounts or help out with non-monetary gifts, unless his 24 hour peace plan works out (which I
doubt).

Its been 24 hours. Fuck all has happened.

If that is allowed to fall, Europe is threatened. And Europe doesn't
currently have the ability to churn out armaments at the scale needed
by itself just yet.

It is an interesting question... how long time would it take for europes weapon companies to up the production?

Well One of Germany's main shell manufacturers is setting up in Ukraine,

"Earlier this year, Rheinmetall's CEO Armin Papperger — the most
powerful weapons tycoon in Europe — was the subject of an assassination attempt by Russian operatives that was foiled by the United States and
Germany.

The Düsseldorf-based firm plans to run four factories inside Ukraine
producing everything from artillery ammunition to gunpowder and air
defense systems, alongside the vehicle repair and maintenance facility.

Rheinmetall — which Papperger claims is the most profitable defense
company in the world — said earlier this month that it had already sent around 200 Marder infantry fighting vehicles to Ukraine, and the German government has donated Rheinmetall's air defense systems too, along with thousands of shells.

Papperger justified investments in production plants inside Ukraine by
saying in a recent interview with Welt that Kyiv needs four million
rounds of artillery ammunition to restock its silos as it resists
Putin's full-scale invasion. "

I saw a mainstream news reports from a swedish weapons factury where
they have already lowered the quality in order to up the quantity of
their production line to help ukraine.

Hadn't seen that. Interesting. In terms of simply killing assaulting
meat waves using cluster munitions, pinpoint accuracy is not required.

They need that to take out the tanks, but often drones do that.

Europe is already engaged in WWII and the US is already an active
participant.

And cannot disengage either.

US has been happy for NATO countries to send their old F16s to Ukraine
if they buy new F35s. Ching Ching.

And to use Russian frozen assets to finance shipment essentially
obsolete Bradleys and Abrams waiting to be scrapped to the front, and
take full price for them...

This 'Ukraine is costing ordinary Americans' is just so much bullshit.
America is making money and testing out its obsolete kit against old
SovBloc equipment.

Oddly the Abrams tanks have not been vastly useful, but everyone loves
the Bradley fighting vehicles. You can take out a Russian tank with the autocannon. If aimed carefully.

The US has thousands of them awaiting either upgrades or replacements.
Already written off as zero value.

The Donald would be a fool not to sell them on for cash.

The reality is that I don't think, with respect, that certain Trump
supporters here have the first idea about what is going on in the US
military, intelligence or armament manufacturing businesses.

"stop the war that is costing us money" is a great election line. But
the reality is that the Wests defense is so intertwined that merely
saying that wont stop USAs deep involvement in it.

If the US wants to interfere in the middle east, then it needs European
bases as staging posts. Ones that can't be sunk by enemy action.

In short Trump may preach isolationism, but it is a lot trickier to
achieve, and certainly not in 24 hours.

And not without severe damage to US interests globally.








--
Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without notice.
– Will Durant

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On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 10:52:01 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Yes. The Germans are gradually realising that the chief cause of their
ills has been the greens,mthe socialists and their government having
been too nice to Russia.,

The FDP walked over pouring more money into the Ukraine rat hole and it
looks like a confidence vote is in store for Scholzy. Maybe cutting
yourself off from cheap energy while shutting down nukes and pushing for
EVs wasn't the greatest plan.

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The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

So far the only real news has been of Liberal heads exploding in
angst and existential panic.

It has been salutary for them to realise that more than half the
country doesn't buy their patronising moralising bullshit.

Yes, but it is also doubtful they will learn the lesson this should
have taught them.

Instead they are much more likely to simply double down on the
patronising and moralising bullshit.

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On 07/11/2024 19:23, Rich wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

So far the only real news has been of Liberal heads exploding in
angst and existential panic.

It has been salutary for them to realise that more than half the
country doesn't buy their patronising moralising bullshit.

Yes, but it is also doubtful they will learn the lesson this should
have taught them.

Indeed, the lesson from the UK is that 8 years later people are still convinced that only stupid people who were misled voted Brexit and it
was the single biggest mistake the country ever made.

Instead they are much more likely to simply double down on the
patronising and moralising bullshit.

That is exactly what they have done. BUT the point is, they have lost
the power to make it compulsory.



--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

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On 07/11/2024 20:10, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 10:52:01 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Yes. The Germans are gradually realising that the chief cause of their
ills has been the greens,mthe socialists and their government having
been too nice to Russia.,

The FDP walked over pouring more money into the Ukraine rat hole and it
looks like a confidence vote is in store for Scholzy. Maybe cutting
yourself off from cheap energy while shutting down nukes and pushing for
EVs wasn't the greatest plan.

No.

But Ukraine is not a rat hole. Its no Detroit.

Unlike you, we know exactly what it is like to have snotty little
dictators destroying our real estate. We have, so to speak , the T shirt ...

The USA despite its bravado lots *only 0.39%* of its population in WWII,
and no territory was ever invaded and only Pearl Harbour was attacked.

Poland lost 10% of its population and was utterly destroyed and then
subjugated for the next 50 years.

Germany lost 11% and was utterly destroyed and split in half.

Russia lost 15% of its population, and was pretty messed up

Britain lost 6%. And was smashed up badly. But not invaded.

Europe does not like war, and does not want war.
But at lest we understand why we have a military. To stop it happening
again.





--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

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On Fri, 8 Nov 2024 03:06:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Europe does not like war, and does not want war.

That's hilarious.

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186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:

On 11/13/24 3:57 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 13/11/2024 08:50, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

Most 60s cars used
   DRUM brakes, you got maybe two or three good
   apps before they'd fade.

The thing about drum brakes is that they have slight but significant
innate brake assistance - the leading shoe tends to wedge itself on.

Yep - likely By Design.

BUT, the instant things get red hot - NO more brakes.
Modern discs/pads ARE superior.

Disks are superior, but don't think you can't make them fade with over-application. They too will fade if the rotors get hot enough.
The reason why they don't fade as easily is the design provides more
cooling, so it takes more braking application to achieve the same
'fade' level.

I don't want to go back to unassisted brakes and no power steering
either.

"Unassisted" CAN be OK ... but it takes a little
practice.

Had an early-60s car that DID have power steering,
but I was too broke to replace the pump. THAT built
up the arm muscles ! 384 replaced with a 426 ...
massive power, needed a booster fuel pump !

A proper 'manual steer' car is easier to drive than a power steering
car with the power steering disabled. The gearing in the steering unit
is set differently for power assist units vs. true manual steer units,
and power assist, without the power assist, is much harder to steer.

It is the same with power assist brakes. The hydralic multiplication
factor is different between power assist master cylinders and true
manual cylinders. The power assist brakes, without the power assist,
will require much more force on the pedal than a 'manual brake' system
requires to produce the same stopping power.

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On 14/11/2024 14:16, Rich wrote:

Disks are superior, but don't think you can't make them fade with over-application. They too will fade if the rotors get hot enough.

Indeed. I was driving my car at about 100mph when I saw stationary
traffic ahead.
The last 15mph or so was.... hard work!

That particular car make was rallied, but with bigger discs, high
temperature pads and better hydraulic fluid.


--
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

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On 14/11/2024 14:16, Rich wrote:

A proper 'manual steer' car is easier to drive than a power steering
car with the power steering disabled. The gearing in the steering unit
is set differently for power assist units vs. true manual steer units,
and power assist, without the power assist, is much harder to steer.

+1.

It is the same with power assist brakes. The hydralic multiplication
factor is different between power assist master cylinders and true
manual cylinders. The power assist brakes, without the power assist,
will require much more force on the pedal than a 'manual brake' system requires to produce the same stopping power.

+2. I had a car once that lost its power brakes. Irt was very hard to
drive to the workshop.

--
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

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On 11/14/24 9:16 AM, Rich wrote:

186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:

On 11/13/24 3:57 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 13/11/2024 08:50, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

Most 60s cars used
   DRUM brakes, you got maybe two or three good
   apps before they'd fade.

The thing about drum brakes is that they have slight but significant
innate brake assistance - the leading shoe tends to wedge itself on.

Yep - likely By Design.

BUT, the instant things get red hot - NO more brakes.
Modern discs/pads ARE superior.

Disks are superior, but don't think you can't make them fade with over-application. They too will fade if the rotors get hot enough.
The reason why they don't fade as easily is the design provides more
cooling, so it takes more braking application to achieve the same
'fade' level.

VERY aware of that.

They DO cool quicker however. BIG advantage.

I don't want to go back to unassisted brakes and no power steering
either.

"Unassisted" CAN be OK ... but it takes a little
practice.

Had an early-60s car that DID have power steering,
but I was too broke to replace the pump. THAT built
up the arm muscles ! 384 replaced with a 426 ...
massive power, needed a booster fuel pump !

A proper 'manual steer' car is easier to drive than a power steering
car with the power steering disabled. The gearing in the steering unit
is set differently for power assist units vs. true manual steer units,
and power assist, without the power assist, is much harder to steer.

Oh, VERY aware of THAT ... the fucker was insanely
difficult - took major effort.

BUT, I could barely afford gas money back then ...

It is the same with power assist brakes. The hydralic multiplication
factor is different between power assist master cylinders and true
manual cylinders. The power assist brakes, without the power assist,
will require much more force on the pedal than a 'manual brake' system requires to produce the same stopping power.

I'd rather have un-powered steering than faulty
power brakes. The systems were NOT set up to cope
with unpowered brakes fer-sure. You'd have to
weigh 400 pounds to get a good stop.

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On 08/11/2024 04:12, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 8 Nov 2024 03:06:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Europe does not like war, and does not want war.

That's hilarious.

Its true.

We have had quite enough of it. Europe has been at war for 2000 years
more or less. There are historians who claim that the desperate need to
compete with foreign kingdoms and principalities is what drove Western technology and political systems.
And of course Europe exfoliated all its criminals and religious
intolerants and poor to the USA, which is why its in the mess its in.


Only Russia sees that and thinks 'well that means they are lusers: I can
take what I want'


--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

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On Fri, 8 Nov 2024 12:43:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/11/2024 04:12, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 8 Nov 2024 03:06:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Europe does not like war, and does not want war.

That's hilarious.

Its true.

We have had quite enough of it. Europe has been at war for 2000 years
more or less.

The last time I looked you still have a nice little proxy war going that
you were conned into by the US. Of course the US isn't solely
responsible, Johnson played his part well.

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On 11/8/24 18:56, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 8 Nov 2024 12:43:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/11/2024 04:12, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 8 Nov 2024 03:06:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Europe does not like war, and does not want war.

That's hilarious.

Its true.

We have had quite enough of it. Europe has been at war for 2000 years
more or less.

The last time I looked you still have a nice little proxy war going that
you were conned into by the US. Of course the US isn't solely
responsible, Johnson played his part well.

Johnson was hoping a war might save him from domestic problems. I don't
really understand why the USA cared, apart from maybe the Democrats
thought Putin had intervened in 2016 election, exposing Hilary's emails.

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On Fri, 8 Nov 2024 22:33:27 +0000, Pancho wrote:

Johnson was hoping a war might save him from domestic problems. I don't really understand why the USA cared, apart from maybe the Democrats
thought Putin had intervened in 2016 election, exposing Hilary's emails.

The US bureaucracy is filled with cold warriors that have no intention of letting it end, going back to the war criminal Albright.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-u-s-decision-to-enlarge-nato-how- when-why-and-what-next/

This is a much longer article on NATO

https://www.investmentmonitor.ai/special-focus/ukraine-crisis/nato- expansion-russia-putin-ukraine-germany/?cf-view

When Yanukovych leaned toward Russia rather than the EU it upset the grand plans. Victoria Nuland and others were cheerleaders for Euromaidan like
the other sponsored color revolutions. And it was off to the races.

Why wasn't post-USSR Russia integrated? Cynically, when you have the
largest 'defense' budget in the world you need someone to defend against
and Russia was the fall guy. That's a lot safer bet the China.

Maybe with Trump back we'll get to the bottom of Russiagate but I don't
have a lot of hope.

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BTW - after awhile I abandoned the idea of replacing
the power-steering pump. I had this idea that if anyone
STOLE the car it would be found ABANDONED a few blocks
away :-)

Cars, early 60s, were VERY heavy - lots of steel.

You get the same effect these days by owning a car
with a manual tranny, 3-on-the-tree is best.
The 'millenials' onward CAN'T figure it out any
more than rotary-dial telephones or TVs with
an actual, manual, tuning knob.

"Don't Touch That Dial !" ...

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On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 01:04:32 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

Cars, early 60s, were VERY heavy - lots of steel.

My '62 Lincoln was 5400 pounds on the hoof. Imagine my joy when I blew the master cylinder on my way to work. No dual systems on that puppy. It was
in an industrial park and the parking lot was uphill from the road so I
could drift in for a gentle landing.

I'd blown a master in my '51 Chevy but between the manual transmission and
a real handbrake it wasn't a problem. I've never had to use it in those circumstances but I'm happy the Toyota has a real handbrake instead of the
foot operated latching type.

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