XPost: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Sun, 18 Aug 2024 12:54:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Systemd has made finding relevant logging impossible.

systemd myth number 20: “systemd makes it impossible to run syslog.”

<http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html>

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XPost: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 18/08/2024 12:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Systemd has made finding relevant logging impossible. journalctl reveals nothing of relevance

Normally the problem is there is far too much crap in journald logging,
so I use rsyslog to filter it all out in to easier to use textual logs.

In another terminal do a journalctl -f to view the live log stream,
while you attempt the operation.

---druck

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XPost: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

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XPost: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 21:32:57 +0100, druck wrote:

Normally the problem is there is far too much crap in journald
logging ...

You realize journalctl has its own filtering system to narrow things down? Selection by service name, date range, message priority, just about
everything you might care about. Even the fields displayed can be narrowed down.

<https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/journalctl.html>

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druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:

On 18/08/2024 12:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Systemd has made finding relevant logging impossible. journalctl reveals
nothing of relevance

Normally the problem is there is far too much crap in journald logging,
so I use rsyslog to filter it all out in to easier to use textual logs.

In another terminal do a journalctl -f to view the live log stream,
while you attempt the operation.

Journalctl -u <unit name> is something that classic syslog cannot do.
Neither does classic syslog support --since beyond what the pre-set
log rotation systematic dictates.

Both worlds have their advantages and disadvantages.

Greetings
Marc
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

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XPost: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

I'm just gonna say it ... WORM earns that name.

Alas, on a PI, still not much other choice. LOTS
of things totally screwed up - needlessly. I think
Deb hired a bunch of Canonical rejects ... SHAME !
If I wanted the Ubuntu mess I'd have installed that.

Eventually, December maybe, Fedora will finally be
tuned for the Pi5 and its weird boot requirements.
USE THAT ! If you have a Pi4 or lower, download
the OLDER distributions.

On OTHER boxes I've moved to either Manjaro or
Fedora-40/XFCE at this point. No more Deb.

HOPING for something like a Devuian fork -
an "original Deb" offshoot - even based
on BullsEye it'd be a huge improvement.
Based on Buster would be even better - still
all the old config files and such in the
well-documented places/formats.

So SAD - Deb used to be 'the rock', 'the
foundation', with no BS. How quickly things
can go bad ....... beware .........

Manjaro IS pretty good ... but don't love
the 'rolling release' aspect. I have low
bandwidth and most any update basically
re-installs EVERYTHING. A very sledgehammer
solution to the dependencies problem.

PIs are, well, weird. If you read all the
text during the installs/updates you will
see all kinds of funky patches/workarounds.
They're kind of the halfway point between
micro-controllers and standard CPU systems
and, well, it's WEIRD. They DO have their
place however !

But if you DON'T need all those I/O pins,
consider a BeeLink or BMax mini-box instead.

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XPost: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 02:23:52 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

HOPING for something like a Devuian fork -
an "original Deb" offshoot - even based on BullsEye it'd be a huge improvement.

Surely there must be a huge crowd of systemd-haters able and willing to contribute resources to the development of Devuan. So why does it lag
behind?

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XPost: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 21/08/2024 00:05, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 21:32:57 +0100, druck wrote:

Normally the problem is there is far too much crap in journald
logging ...

You realize journalctl has its own filtering system to narrow things down? Selection by service name, date range, message priority, just about everything you might care about. Even the fields displayed can be narrowed down.

<https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/journalctl.html>

Yes, but I don't want to fiddle with all that crap when there is a
perfectly working syslog with the configuration files I spent years
tuning, and easily grep'able text log files.

journald is a massive step backwards, no matter how many bells and
whistles they stick on it.

---druck

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XPost: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 21/08/2024 07:23, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

I'm just gonna say it ... WORM earns that name.

Alas, on a PI, still not much other choice. LOTS
of things totally screwed up - needlessly. I think
Deb hired a bunch of Canonical rejects ... SHAME !
If I wanted the Ubuntu mess I'd have installed that.

I agree the latest Bookworm is not set up the way I want it. I don't
want Wayland or Network Manager, and I do want Xorg and rsyslog.

HOPING for something like a Devuian fork -
an "original Deb" offshoot - even based
on BullsEye it'd be a huge improvement.
Based on Buster would be even better - still
all the old config files and such in the
well-documented places/formats.

My set up has been migrated from whatever was on the very first 256MB Pi (Stretch?) all the way through to Bullseye on the Pi 4B. With a not
quite in place 32 bit to 64 bit Bullseye upgrade, I was then able to in
place upgrade to 64 bit Bookworm, and transfer to the Pi 5 - but
successfully keeping everything set up identically to how it was previously.

If that option hadn't worked, I'd definitely be looking for alternate
distros.

So SAD - Deb used to be 'the rock', 'the
foundation', with no BS. How quickly things
can go bad ....... beware .........

Thing is because I always in place upgraded, I didn't notice when the
rot had set in, and was horrified at the changes that had been made when
I initially did a clean install of Bookworm for the Pi 5.

---druck

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XPost: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 09:18:29 +0100
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:

Yes, but I don't want to fiddle with all that crap when there is a
perfectly working syslog with the configuration files I spent years
tuning, and easily grep'able text log files.

Right there is the true importance of backwards compatibility. I'm
sure journald has many wonderful features but babies and bathwater spring
to mind.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

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XPost: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 21/08/2024 09:18, druck wrote:

On 21/08/2024 00:05, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 21:32:57 +0100, druck wrote:

Normally the problem is there is far too much crap in journald
logging ...

You realize journalctl has its own filtering system to narrow things
down?
Selection by service name, date range, message priority, just about
everything you might care about. Even the fields displayed can be
narrowed
down.

<https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/journalctl.html>

Yes, but I don't want to fiddle with all that crap when there is a
perfectly working syslog with the configuration files I spent years
tuning, and easily grep'able text log files.

journald is a massive step backwards, no matter how many bells and
whistles they stick on it.

---druck

I shouldn't have mentioned systemd. Journalctl reveals no failures
reported by the snmp daemon. It simply silently ignores the 'extend'
directive.

--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace, community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

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XPost: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 21/08/2024 10:57, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 09:18:29 +0100
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:

Yes, but I don't want to fiddle with all that crap when there is a
perfectly working syslog with the configuration files I spent years
tuning, and easily grep'able text log files.

Right there is the true importance of backwards compatibility. I'm
sure journald has many wonderful features but babies and bathwater spring
to mind.

Systemd is very Marxist/EUist.
There must be one central authority to ensure things are always done the
right way.
And who decided the right way?

Some appartchik was tasked with it who understood nothing about the real
world

--
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason
they are poor.

Peter Thompson

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XPost: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 10:57:58 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 09:18:29 +0100 druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:

Yes, but I don't want to fiddle with all that crap when there is a
perfectly working syslog with the configuration files I spent years
tuning, and easily grep'able text log files.

Right there is the true importance of backwards compatibility. I'm
sure journald has many wonderful features but babies and bathwater
spring to mind.

systemd myth number 20: “systemd makes it impossible to run syslog.”

<http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html>

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