• Re: Joy of Translation

    From Lars Poulsen@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 11 12:33:16 2024
    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 22:03:06 +0100, D wrote:
    The question is if anything more complicated than Schwedenkrimi can really
    be translated. In one of Heidegger's more accessible essays he questions
    if we can adequately translate Greek with the nuances and associations the words had in the original.

    In a discussion on Quora about the ambiguities of Bible translations,
    Franklin Veaux said somethiong like "Imagine a translator 2000 years from
    now trying to figure out the difference between a butt dial and a booty
    call".

    Franklin is one of my favorite writers on Quora.

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  • From Farley Flud@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Wed Dec 11 15:16:56 2024
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 12:33:16 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 22:03:06 +0100, D wrote:
    The question is if anything more complicated than Schwedenkrimi can really >> be translated. In one of Heidegger's more accessible essays he questions
    if we can adequately translate Greek with the nuances and associations the >> words had in the original.

    In a discussion on Quora about the ambiguities of Bible translations, Franklin Veaux said somethiong like "Imagine a translator 2000 years from
    now trying to figure out the difference between a butt dial and a booty call".


    All so very, very true.

    There is one solution however: comments, comments, and comments.

    In one of the best translations of the ancient Greek tragedies that
    I have ever encountered (sadly, both the author and title are now
    lost to me), the author commented heavily on nearly every line
    of the translation. This was done in the book using facing pages,
    i.e. the left page contained the original Greek and the English
    translation while the right page contained the extensive line-by-line commentary.

    One could easily glance back and forth between the facing pages
    to develop an insight into the original. This kind of a set-up
    is much better than the often used footnotes.

    However, much meaning and nuances are probably still destined
    to be lost.


    --
    Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Thu Dec 12 01:15:31 2024
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 12:33:16 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

    In a discussion on Quora about the ambiguities of Bible translations, Franklin Veaux said somethiong like "Imagine a translator 2000 years
    from now trying to figure out the difference between a butt dial and a
    booty call".

    That's about right. One of my favorites is a runic inscription, ALU in the Roman alphabet. It shows up in a number of places but it isn't clear what
    it means. My friends who went to Catholic schools always put

    M
    J J

    on the top of their homework, essays, and test papers. Good luck figuring
    that out in 1000 years.

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  • From Charlie Gibbs@21:1/5 to rbowman on Thu Dec 12 05:06:18 2024
    On 2024-12-12, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 12:33:16 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

    In a discussion on Quora about the ambiguities of Bible translations,
    Franklin Veaux said somethiong like "Imagine a translator 2000 years
    from now trying to figure out the difference between a butt dial and a
    booty call".

    That's about right. One of my favorites is a runic inscription, ALU in the Roman alphabet. It shows up in a number of places but it isn't clear what
    it means. My friends who went to Catholic schools always put

    M
    J J

    on the top of their homework, essays, and test papers. Good luck figuring that out in 1000 years.

    Interesting. I never went near a Catholic school, but around grade 5 or 6
    a classmate, Mads Jensen, wrote a monogram like the above, except that the
    tops of the Js were attached to the legs of the M.

    --
    /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
    \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
    X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
    / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Charlie Gibbs on Thu Dec 12 08:24:48 2024
    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 05:06:18 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

    Interesting. I never went near a Catholic school, but around grade 5 or
    6 a classmate, Mads Jensen, wrote a monogram like the above, except that
    the tops of the Js were attached to the legs of the M.

    Yeah, that was the real thing. I wasn't going to mess around with ASCII
    art to that extent.

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  • From D@21:1/5 to Charlie Gibbs on Thu Dec 12 10:37:42 2024
    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

    On 2024-12-12, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 12:33:16 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

    In a discussion on Quora about the ambiguities of Bible translations,
    Franklin Veaux said somethiong like "Imagine a translator 2000 years
    from now trying to figure out the difference between a butt dial and a
    booty call".

    That's about right. One of my favorites is a runic inscription, ALU in the >> Roman alphabet. It shows up in a number of places but it isn't clear what
    it means. My friends who went to Catholic schools always put

    M
    J J

    on the top of their homework, essays, and test papers. Good luck figuring
    that out in 1000 years.

    Interesting. I never went near a Catholic school, but around grade 5 or 6
    a classmate, Mads Jensen, wrote a monogram like the above, except that the tops of the Js were attached to the legs of the M.

    I think it might be related to the illuminati. Mads seems to be a powerful
    guy. I would be careful if I were you! ;)

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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 12 20:15:38 2024
    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 10:37:42 +0100, D wrote:

    I think it might be related to the illuminati. Mads seems to be a
    powerful guy. I would be careful if I were you!

    Ah, the Illuminati. While sorting out books to discard this summer I re-
    read some of Robert Anton Wilson's stuff. I surreptitiously leave the
    books in Little Free Library boxes to warp the minds of future
    generations.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Free_Library

    There's an app for that... It gives the coordinates so I can find fresh territory instead of stumbling over them. Generally I only leave books but
    I walked by one Monday with a hardcover C.J. Box novel that I'll have to revisit.

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  • From D@21:1/5 to rbowman on Thu Dec 12 21:33:00 2024
    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 10:37:42 +0100, D wrote:

    I think it might be related to the illuminati. Mads seems to be a
    powerful guy. I would be careful if I were you!

    Ah, the Illuminati. While sorting out books to discard this summer I re-
    read some of Robert Anton Wilson's stuff. I surreptitiously leave the
    books in Little Free Library boxes to warp the minds of future
    generations.

    How come you're getting rid of them? I cannot bear giving books away. They become friends, much to my wifes great annoyance. ;)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Free_Library

    Good idea!

    There's an app for that... It gives the coordinates so I can find fresh territory instead of stumbling over them. Generally I only leave books but
    I walked by one Monday with a hardcover C.J. Box novel that I'll have to revisit.


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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 13 01:47:31 2024
    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 21:33:00 +0100, D wrote:

    How come you're getting rid of them? I cannot bear giving books away.
    They become friends, much to my wifes great annoyance.

    https://www.thespruce.com/swedish-death-cleaning-4801461

    It is difficult and the problem is I tend to want to read them again to
    make sure. Some of them I'll never read again. For example about 30 years
    ago I was on a Neville Shute kick. I enjoyed them at the time but I don't
    need to revisit them. Many of the Buddhism books satisfied my curiosity
    about various schools but I don't need to revisit. The Lotus sutra is
    highly thought of in Nichiren school to the point that the practical level
    it comes down to contemplating a gohonzon

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gohonzon

    and chanting 'Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō' or 'Glory to the Dharma of the Lotus Sutra'. The Lotus sutra itself is self-promoting and suggests the best way
    to acquire merit is to copy and distribute it. Don't need to know any
    more.

    Lately almost everything I buy is for the Kindle. That does not require building more shelves at least.

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  • From D@21:1/5 to rbowman on Fri Dec 13 11:20:35 2024
    This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
    while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

    On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 21:33:00 +0100, D wrote:

    How come you're getting rid of them? I cannot bear giving books away.
    They become friends, much to my wifes great annoyance.

    https://www.thespruce.com/swedish-death-cleaning-4801461

    Fascinating! I've lived a few decades in sweden, but never heard of this concept! You learn something new every day!

    It is difficult and the problem is I tend to want to read them again to
    make sure. Some of them I'll never read again. For example about 30 years
    ago I was on a Neville Shute kick. I enjoyed them at the time but I don't need to revisit them. Many of the Buddhism books satisfied my curiosity
    about various schools but I don't need to revisit. The Lotus sutra is
    highly thought of in Nichiren school to the point that the practical level
    it comes down to contemplating a gohonzon

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gohonzon

    and chanting 'Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō' or 'Glory to the Dharma of the Lotus

    Did you try the chant? Did you get any good effects? I always find that
    the easter orthodox christian tradition of the jesus prayer and hesychams aligns beautifully with mantra yoga.

    Sutra'. The Lotus sutra itself is self-promoting and suggests the best way
    to acquire merit is to copy and distribute it. Don't need to know any
    more.

    Hah! An early example of a nice mind hack!

    Lately almost everything I buy is for the Kindle. That does not require building more shelves at least.

    Since I like classics, and since I found the trinity of annas-archive.org, libgen and z-lib, my kindling has exploded! I still do buy the physical
    copy of a book from time to time if I really like it.

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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 13 20:50:40 2024
    On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 11:20:35 +0100, D wrote:

    Did you try the chant? Did you get any good effects? I always find that
    the easter orthodox christian tradition of the jesus prayer and
    hesychams aligns beautifully with mantra yoga.

    Not that one. The Lotus sutra is associated with SGI in my mind. They're
    sort of the Japanese version of the Moonies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soka_Gakkai

    Sometimes at the end of a long hike when my mind is wandering 'Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Svaha!' fills the void. It's the mantra at
    the end of the Heart sutra. I guess it's sort of like Thich Nhat Hanh's
    walking meditation.


    https://www.lionsroar.com/love-wisdom-buddha/ https://www.lionsroar.com/walking-meditation-thich-nhat-hanh/

    Technically the Heart is the summation of a huge body of literature that
    handle the disagreements of the major schools.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prajnaparamita

    Like the Jesus prayer the mantra invokes the whole deal.

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  • From D@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sat Dec 14 12:00:06 2024
    On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

    On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 11:20:35 +0100, D wrote:

    Did you try the chant? Did you get any good effects? I always find that
    the easter orthodox christian tradition of the jesus prayer and
    hesychams aligns beautifully with mantra yoga.

    Not that one. The Lotus sutra is associated with SGI in my mind. They're

    Silicon Graphics International was my first association. ;)

    sort of the Japanese version of the Moonies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soka_Gakkai

    Sometimes at the end of a long hike when my mind is wandering 'Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Svaha!' fills the void. It's the mantra at
    the end of the Heart sutra. I guess it's sort of like Thich Nhat Hanh's walking meditation.


    https://www.lionsroar.com/love-wisdom-buddha/ https://www.lionsroar.com/walking-meditation-thich-nhat-hanh/

    Technically the Heart is the summation of a huge body of literature that handle the disagreements of the major schools.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prajnaparamita

    Like the Jesus prayer the mantra invokes the whole deal.

    Yes... it seems like the religious can be very pragmatic. Let's sum
    everything up in a word, and focus on that. Very efficient! ;)

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